The Comparison Trap | How to Find Your Place with Rabbi Eliezer Breitowitz

I'm fond of quoting President George Bush II uh was once asked in a press conference if he watched the news. >> So he said, you know, why should I watch the news? I am the news. Comparisons are always dangerous. If a person tells himself that I'm going to be measured by the reonish lum by comparison to other people, he'll always fall short. What does it do to the person who already has seen that image, >> you know, and now is told that this will remain in your head for the rest of your life and there's no hope and you're finished and you're you're a failure. Well, where do you go from there? Person has to seek his bliss. He has to find that which will give him true satisfaction in life. And I think that if I have to convey one message, I would say do this for yourselves. Do this for your children. Beyond Therapy, bringing you emotional well-being. >> Thank you so much for the Shiva for agreeing to do this and talk about emotional well-being and people's mental health in terms of yeshiva bakim and in terms of all of us. We all go through difficult times and what could happen is is that a person could spiral into it could spiral into depressing thoughts. they could spiral into that very hard moment in their lives. And how does Rashiva go about managing those times when things are very hard? >> No, I'll mention that this this phenomenon can affect even the greatest person. I'll share something personal with you. Many many years ago, this was in the first years of our marriage. Uh we had a child who was hospitalized for a extended period of time. And at that time I was learning in Kyle. I was a younger man. So the expectation was I'd be their morning sader and afternoon seder and night sader. They'd be devoting much of my time to learning. And now we have this this crisis which meant uh that the regular seder hay the regular order of things was just totally disrupted. I was sleeping every night in the hospital. >> And uh by the way from that I learned I could sleep anywhere today. I can sleep sitting up. I can sleep standing up. you know uh I I trained myself >> middle of the year >> in the middle of a year everything would have fallen apart during that time but interestingly during that time I was giving a dioir and I told myself that I'm going to keep that up because whatever happens the rest of the day wherever I have to be um I'm going to keep that shear up and uh I did it and it was interesting that when uh our child was diagnosed with a serious illness So um Dafimi had just begun mas Noir which is a very very hard maka >> and uh that was my commitment. I'm going to keep up with Dimei for Noir and every day that was one hour I was away from the hospital. I went gave the shir came back and that meant I had to prepare. This was before art scroll before there were lot of all I had was a a gumar and uh it's a difficult mak it but that was the structure that was the anchor that kept me afloat in a very very very difficult time and I think that this might be a piece of good advice for anybody and everybody was there are difficult times keep at it keep up um your fixed starim for for Torah and you'll weather the storm. I think that one of the things that is good about Judaism is that the structure of mitzvah uh keeps us in line even in the difficult times was a person who uh davins but sib a person who has fixed times for learning. So of course there'll be times that he's more inspired, times that he's less inspired, times that everything is going well, times that things are difficult, but if he's able to maintain his program of mitzvah, maintain some type of a schedule. So this will keep him afloat in the difficult times which eventually will pass. Interestingly, this is easier for men than for women. Whereas women >> have a schedule >> don't have the same type of schedule, >> right? So sometimes for them it's a lot harder to uh provide for themselves that anchor that they need in times of crisis. But for men I would say this is certainly something that's that's worth doing. >> What would the Shiva tell a woman >> would tell her that it's very important especially at a time like this to establish for yourself some type of regimen something you're going to do every day without missing. You know this really, you know, points to the essential difference between a woman and a man in terms of Jewish life. The man is like an employee. He has a job. His employer tells him you do this at this time and do this at this time and do this at this time and the structure is provided. The woman is more like the entrepreneur. She's the boss. You know, she has to decide how to use her time and what to prioritize and that's a big challenge. But it can be uh accomplished >> a feeling of I'm not good enough. I compare myself to him. Compare myself to him. Or anybody in life, they compare themselves other people. They're chasing status or whatever they're chasing to be the better this, the better that. And they feel not good enough. They feel I'm just not good enough. Whether it's I'm not good enough for Hashem, I'm not good enough for my friends. Um and they're constantly fighting this battle of I'm just not good enough. >> Well, this is a serious problem. Um comparisons are always dangerous. If a person tells himself that I'm going to be measured by the reonish lum by comparison to other people, it'll always fall short. There's always another person who is better in some way, another person who's better in a different way, and a third person who's better in a third way. and uh I'll always be deficient in relation to somebody in some aspect of my life. But a person has to know that um the rebon designs each person's nishama and the parameters of each person's mis in life um as suited for that person's nishama. So therefore every person is born into a certain family. He's born at a certain place in a certain time. Um he's born and given certain opportunities, certain natural talents. And these are for his unique challenge. And you never want someone else's challenge because you've been given the tools for your challenge. You haven't given the tools for his challenge. >> The expectations that has of every individual are different. The uh problem is that uh school by its very nature can be competitive >> and sometimes schools encourage that. They figure that competition is a way of um driving people to excellence but it often is a mistake. It it really is not a question of how I compare to somebody else. The question is how do I compare to what I can do? And I think that educators rebel have to be conscious of this. But when they speak to a boy to make a comparison and say look at what that person did, you can do the same. >> There's always a mistake. That person may have talents, skills, abilities that this person doesn't have. Um rather you have to be able to point to a young man and say or young lady and say know these are your talents these are your skills this is what you can do and uh you can be the best you can be will it be equal to the other person um not necessarily but that's not important you know there's a story that's told it's an interesting story that um know the altar of Slovaka who was a master you know Mann So there once was a boy learning in the yeshiva and uh the boy came one morning to yeshiva and he learned the entire morning. He learned bas learned well. And uh on his way out of the banish, I guess going to lunch, the altar called him over and he said says, "You must be a terrible Russia." He said so said the boy was shocked. What an accusation. I I sat in all morning I learned. Says, "You must be a terrible Russia." He says, "Why?" Because if you went to Russia after such a successful morning of learning, he says you should walk out with a smile that goes from ear to ear. >> Yeah. >> Says if you walk out with a sense of being uh not ecstatic. >> Yeah. >> It must be there's something wrong. And the the altar wanted to point out something which is very important that um you know a boy comes to yeshiva and he learns four hours bas and uh he understands the gumar on his level that's a tremendous accomplishment that should give so much satisfaction so much joy >> that if you don't sense it there's something wrong >> and then for one boy would be I guess 20 minutes or one boy would be whatever whatever the amount that person is >> yeah of course and and and I think that that um a lot of people are down on themselves because they feel that in the vast scheme of things what is what is this uh um did I really accomplish anything did I really achieve or what I could have achieved but a person has to be uh in a sense you have to be happy with your lot and that's even in spirituality even in um you have to have tremendous satisfaction and pride and a sense of accomplishment and that will be the force that will proud you and push you to achieving greater heights in the future. But when you have a system where there's one winner and many losers, well, the losers are uh losers. >> Losers. >> And I I I think that um by the way, this is a misconception that really has to be um addressed. There's a famous the say that the Mikra. There are a thousand that enter the system, the educational system for Mikra, for Kish. And then there are Maya, there are hundred that exit to Mishna. And then from the hundred, there are 10 that exit to Gumarra. And from the 10 that go into Gumra, there's one becomes fit and worthy of being a pisake, a person who can issue rulings in Jewish law. So people mistakenly believe that the point of this kazal is that the system is set up in such a way that uh onetenth of 1% is successful >> and the rest are failures and that's how it's supposed to be. It's a mistake. That's not what mean is saying is something else which is that everyone has a place in Torah. In other words, a thousand go into Mikra, 900 may remain there, but they'll be very very happy and successful and accomplished on that level. There'll be a hundred, they can go to the next level. >> Um, of those hundred, 90 will remain at that level of Mishna and be happy and successful and thrive on that level. 10 will go beyond the 10 will go to Gammorra and they'll thrive at that level and one will bear. In the meantime, the remaining 999 will each find their place in the hierarchy of uh Torah and uh learn with great levels of satisfaction. Part of the problem is that um our educational system is geared to the 10 that enter to Gumarra. >> Yeah. >> And this is a serious deficiency. Um, we probably need an educational system that could allow people to thrive at different levels. And u, you know, maybe it will be addressed someday. You know, I don't know. I'm I'm certainly not uh the person who's setting policy for the Jewish world, but I'm just pointing out that this is something that that could be addressed. And I think it will go a long way towards um addressing some of the negative feelings that people have. the lack of selfworth, the lack of accomplishment that then >> emerge in all sorts of uh >> pathologies I think could be addressed if the educational system was was geared to the needs of the individuals and provided them an opportunity to really thrive. >> Yeah. The unique thing that the rashiva just said was the they think that so a lot of our yeshiva is for lower boys but they all focus not all most of them focus on garum she was saying unique thing that don't necessarily focus on garum find something else that the boy is interested in learning right >> okay know the assumption that we have to learn Gumarra because Gumarra is so uh intellectually stimulating that may be the case but is that what kids are looking for is every boy looking for an intellectual challenge. >> Some boys may be looking more for a feeling of accomplishment and a feeling of accomplishment often comes from the completion of whole things. Right? So if a boy can uh um learn Mishna and in a relatively short time finisha that might give him a sense of satisfaction that uh sitting on a blat for a month won't give him >> right >> you know there's a a puk which says that the days of a poor man are are wretched and uh a person who's good-hearted. For him, life is an ongoing uh celebration. And there's a mus what these halves of the verse refer to. But there's one interpretation that says that refers to bal and refers to balishna. And the interpretation is given in one of the who says that uh the person who learns garra how often can he make a seal very very rarely. says call and his life is wretched. Says the person learns Mishna every day can make a mish for him life is a celebration that's pointed to a certain truth. People need to feel a sense of accomplishment. >> Was in learning garum in depth. It's very very hard to quantify the achievement. >> Yeah. >> In other words, it's very subtle. When a person uh learns garum in the manner of bikus, he can say I covered this many blot. I covered this many makas. And in the Mishna certainly that's the case. For example, you know, if a boy um is down on himself, you know, he may um feel the need to satisfy what is missing artificially, >> right? >> You know, this could lead to uh alcohol abuse. basically lead to drug abuse. Um you know if a person feels marginalized because his friends are performing at one level and he's performing at a different level that could result in a whole different set of uh you know social issues. So I I I think that that um the lack of of accomplishment can be the root cause of of of serious serious problems and once those problems uh manifest themselves then the solutions become very very very difficult. >> Right. Right. So let's say we have a boy in front of us right now who's coming to Shiva and is he's struggling with his struggling with anxiety and feeling down about himself. Shiva tries to tell him um maybe see a therapist or this could even be an adult. I mean this is but if the boy is very very hesitant to go he feels ashamed to go. He feels not good enough if he goes like he already feels not good enough and now he's going to feel more not good enough. um and he doesn't want he doesn't want to go. What would the Shiva tell or a woman or anybody who who feels this way? >> Okay, the first thing is this. Let's talk about the the long-term solution to this problem. I think we have to eliminate the stigma which is associated with uh mental health professionals. A person wouldn't hesitate if uh he had a medical problem. was if a person uh had a problem breathing or problem with his digestion or chest pains uh you know he'd go to a doctor and u no problem and he would fully understand that he needs help and uh this could greatly improve his life. Somehow we have this uh sense that uh a a an emotional problem somehow is indicative of a moral failing and therefore there's a certain guilt associated with the fact that I need this type of uh help. So we have to put that aside. First of people, a lot of people say that I should bring on a for here would be very helpful. I bring on somebody and they'll talk about not who somebody just talk about their own experiences with their mental health and their own challenges and their own how they got come through them and whatever and I tell them find me somebody who's willing to come on. Nobody's willing to. People are nervous to say that they ever struggled in any way. And >> yeah, but again, but but a lot of the struggles again are are um physical and again biochemical in in source. And uh sometimes very they're addressed with medication. Yeah. >> And uh you know the person uh is able to successfully function as a result of treatment and therefore there shouldn't be a moral stigma attached to that. This is um if anything it it works the other way. Other words, let's say you have a person who who has a problem and because of his pride or his arrogance decides well um I don't need help. I can solve this problem myself. That's a moral failing. >> If a person doesn't have the the uh self-awareness to understand that he needs help. >> Yeah. >> And thinks I have a problem. I can solve this myself. I can address myself. I'm invincible and I'm self-sufficient. >> That itself is is a serious moral failing. Yeah. >> So I think this is the first thing that we have to impress upon people that there's no stigma attached and you know the idea of advice is um you know I I I I think something that we all have to uh appreciate. You know, the Torah itself says that uh a wife is meant to be an Azerdo. A person isn't meant to live uh in a bubble. He's meant to share. He's meant to commiserate. Uh he's meant to seek advice. And again, seeking advice from people who have valuable experience, you know, is a a very very commendable thing. So I think that we have to work to eliminate the stigma. Again, you know, finding a therapist is like like a shock. It's not always a match. And sometimes the particular therapist just isn't a match with a particular young man for whatever reason. Or a person goes to a therapist and doesn't click and they think, well, maybe I'll keep going. I'll keep going. I keep going. Keep going. And then, uh, you know, they've been going to that therapist for six months and, uh, nothing has happened. There's been no progress. and uh you know they realize that it's going nowhere and they'll just give up. That's unfortunate that that probably it would seem to me that if it's a sh if it's a match then it should be something which is apparent in a relatively short period of time. I'm not saying in one session, but two, three, four sessions, you know, if the you can connect, >> there's a connection, right? If it's is if it's moving somewhere and if it's not, it may be time to begin looking for a new therapist. Um before the person becomes sour on the idea of therapy generally. >> Yeah. >> Right. In other words, as long as he thinks, okay, the therapy is a good idea, but this particular therapist is not a match. Okay, he'll try somebody else. If he waits six months, he might just say, "What's the point? I'm finished." >> And that will be a shame because he probably could be helped by someone different. >> Yeah. Does Rashiva feel that everybody could benefit from therapy at some point in their life? What does she feel about that? Now this is an interesting thing that um you know getting back to Sigman Freud you know if you wanted to be one of his disciples you had to subject yourself to psychoanalysis. Um you see he held that psychoanalysis was not a treatment for mental illness per se. Psychoanalysis was a process of self-discovery coming to know yourself. We think that uh the purpose of seeing a therapist is because there's some type of mental illness, some pathology that needs to be addressed. And I think that's that's the mistake. I think that that everyone probably would benefit from it. Um you know, if it wasn't for the expense, >> yeah, >> in terms of money, in terms of time, >> um you know, I I think more people would would want to do this. And you know, I think that that that everyone needs someone to talk to and and and share with. And um you know, I I think that that nowadays um rebim are much more um comfortable filling that role than they once were. Yeah. >> Um nowadays I think that uh in most yeshivists at least war enlightened ones it's understood that that a very very important part of the reby's role >> Yeah. >> is to be that type of counselor. >> Obviously it's very important for the rebby to know what he doesn't know. >> Yeah. >> And this is an important thing where limits are. Sometimes people don't know what limits are and they think that a problem comes to my table I can necessarily address it. You have to know at what point you need to refer to a professional. Uh I I I think they have to understand that this is part of their responsibility, >> not just to be uh not just >> not just for the year they're they're uh it's it's a lifelong commitment. >> Yeah. Rashiva felt that Rashiva went back to Israel. Is that something Shiva felt connected to? >> Um let's put it this way. I I I did feel a very very strong connection to uh to some of my um you know weber who was naasha in my years there. He was like the second in command >> but we were very close and uh you know until he he was nif um we remained close and and I would consult with him often. Um, you know, sadly, sadly, sadly, uh, at some point you you reach an age >> where Euroba are no longer here in in this world. >> But you still ask yourself the question, what would they have said? >> Yeah. >> You know, in this situation and sometimes if you have a relationship which is um deep enough and and long enough, sometimes you can you can even answer that. No, I think that the Rashida would have said this, he would have said this and maybe that could provide some guidance. >> Um, yeah, I guess when you get older, this is always the challenge like who who do you who do you speak to? >> And um, >> so what what does Rashiva do now? How does Rashiva like >> I don't know maybe I can't tell you that my mental health is what it should be necessarily. um >> you know but I think there is a certain truth to the fact that um you know when you're in your 60s the issues that emerge are really reruns of issues that were u applicable in your 50s and then your 40s and your 30s and your 20s and your teens >> later to take that Even if that person's not around. Yeah. The um so challenges today are different than the challenges in the past. Every generation has their own unique challenges. What would Rashiva feel I guess besides the basic technology challenge because that's the common theme but the the um what are the challenges of boys today that affect their mental health, their emotional well-being? what does see that are common challenges and that are unique to today or what's going on in the world today. Now you mentioned you know technology and um you know I I I think that there are a lot of people that that present the idea that technology is a unique unprecedented challenge and the truth is in in many many ways it is just the same challenge um with uh a modern twist. Uh let's say for example what are some of the issues that relate to technology? First of all, it's a tremendous time waster. Well, we wasted time back then, too. I mean, maybe the uh the internet has made time wasting more efficient, but but there were plenty of ways of wasting time uh 30 years, 40 years ago, and 50 years ago. So, uh it's not a new problem. um pornography, you know, it existed then too. Is it more accessible today? Yes, it's more accessible today. But to say that this is a new problem, you know, it's not a new problem. It's a problem. >> It's much more accessible. >> As I said, so the accessibility doesn't mean it's essentially different. >> A buffer today, a bucker today could access this type of this pornography type of stuff in a second. >> 100%. I'm just pointing out it doesn't mean that it's a fundamentally different problem. Um you know boys were always interested in girls. No this is hasn't changed from the shi raas. Yeah, >> but uh you know the questions of accessibility don't make these fundamentally different problems, >> right? They are just um problems that have become more uh intense because theility has gone up. Yeah, >> but I I think that there may be a set of problems that that is um unique and um it's you know there there's a uh an acronym you know FOMO you know fear of missing out missing out >> which uh I I think is maybe a unique problem >> social pressure >> the world the world has become more accessible popular culture >> and Um and therefore it's uh it it there is this sense that I have to participate in uh the world or else I'm being left out. >> There's this desire to be part of the world. >> Yeah. >> And to join in and uh not be left out. I'm fond of quoting President George Bush II uh was once asked in a press conference if he watched the news, the television news. >> So he said, you know, why should I watch the news? I am the news, >> you know, and I think that that we have to have a similar attitude to say that why do I have to participate >> in in the culture of the society? I am the center of the world. In other words, as a member of Claudia show, I'm I'm uh I'm the newsmaker. I don't need to see what they're doing and you know which movies are running for the Academy Awards and whatnot. What I'm doing is important. Yeah. When we understand that that we're doing work which is infinitely valuable by comparison to things that are by comparison totally totally insignificant. Um then a person will be filled with a sense of pride a sense of accomplishment. Be less tempted to want to follow closely what everyone else is doing. Certainly won't feel a sense of of missing out. And I I I think that will lead to greater satisfaction and and greater mental health, if you will. >> Yeah. >> Because they're not going to be feeling um sense of alienation from things that are truly important. >> Yeah. Yeah. We are the news. Very powerful statement. Um the Shiva mentioned before pornography and that is a issue that um is very scary and reason I want to talk about it is because let's say a bucker gets stuck in it buck watches it right and the problem is is that there's right away two things or an adult there's right two things there's an automatic pull to it it's like a drug it's the pleasure um signals go on and number two tremendous amount of shame both those things are the two biggest causes of addiction. Now, what happens is the boy feels so much shame, feels so terrible about himself, doesn't want to tell anybody. So, what does he do? He knows something could give him pleasure, goes right back to it. And the the scary part is it's it's not an uncommon issue. People get stuck in this cycle because they they can't get out of it and they're they're stuck in it. And it's an unfortunate issue that we're dealing with and particularly because of the shame and because of all that and and it is bad. But what do what do we what does what does she tell such a buck or such a an adult such a >> see I'm not an expert in in in this issue. uh I don't know if there anyone who is but I I do want to mention one thing which I think is important to know that I think a lot of the publications and a lot of the drious that are being given are conveying a message which is actually counterproductive and causes more harm than good. Let's say for example you want to impress upon a person the dangers of the internet and you tell the person if you see something on the internet which is inappropriate >> it will remain in your head for the rest of your life >> and you are finished >> this is this is the end. And a lot of the people think that this is a a productive technique because it'll scare people away and stop them from even uh looking >> right >> and so on and so forth. Okay, maybe they're right. Maybe we'll scare some people off. What does it do to the person who already has seen that image? >> Yeah. >> You know, and now is told that this will remain in your head for the rest of your life and there's no hope and you're finished and you're you're a failure. Well, where do you go from there? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Maybe you're stuck in it. You're stuck. If the only thing you know, the only thing you know now is that oh, if I want to feel okay, I could go back to it. Yeah. >> And that's disaster. But let's say you would convey a different message and you would say that you know every day is a new day and what happened yesterday you put behind you and uh every day is a fresh start >> right >> maybe that's a more productive message >> right >> for the person who already was already stumble >> right >> and I think that this is something that that um we would have to uh you know press upon that young man let's say the boy comes would come to the likelihood of this happening is very slim. But let's say a boy >> the >> boys don't want to talk about it. That's that's what keeps it going. That's the problem. >> Let's say a boy in a moment of cander would would would come and say that you know he's grappling with this problem. >> Yeah. >> And you know he's watched this he's done this he's seen this etc. and come to me and I would say okay that was yesterday >> right >> and today is today >> right >> and uh let's start for a new beginning and uh just you should know that doesn't mean that every day is going to be perfectly successful >> right >> the fact that today you had a good day doesn't mean tomorrow will be a good day tomorrow might be uh it'll slip back >> but the important thing is that that generally there should be an upward direction like the stock market >> the person will Well, the person will tell their Shiva, um, okay, that's very nice, but I'm already a Russia. I'm a terrible person. I did the worst of in the world. Like, just by looking at the and and the person feels completely their their life is over. Like, not life is over, but their Yiddish is over. >> But it's not true. >> It's not true. >> That's the point. The point is that it's not true. Yeah. >> In other words, there's no such thing, >> right, as as uh the point of no return, >> right? the the amuna of chuva means that uh a person can always change right >> and it's important to understand that we talk about >> other words we think that karat has to be this burning sense of of remorse >> that I'm I'm totally pained my heart is feels like it's been stamped on the simplest level just means that I understand. No, I don't want that, >> right? >> I I I wish I didn't get into that. It's a mistake. I would like to change. And that's already a chuva. And I think that um you know, it it's important for for uh talum to know that um everyone grapples with these issues and uh what she was saying. You're talking about, you know, things that a person shouldn't see and a person shouldn't look at. >> And uh, you know, obviously, look, there are levels. >> You know, there's hardcore pornography. >> And, uh, there's looking at a a pretty girl passing by, which are two different things, but not essentially different, just differences in magnitude. >> Yeah. And you know a boy who thinks that his problem is unique and and who can understand that has to know that his his rebum um have grappled with the same issues maybe again not to the same extent but same types of issues and maybe are still grappling with the same issues right >> you know there's a famous story of you in a meeting I guess and some people in this house maybe it was and there was a girl who was uh helping in the house helping his son >> and she's walking in and walking out and >> and the just at one point says what does she think we're Malib this girl is walking was talking about >> you know he was an older man at the time >> but you know there's a girl walking about he said this this is a even for him >> whatever this means >> I'm not going to try to interpret the story but the point We all grapple with that. >> Yeah. >> Right. And that a boy should think that his rebal and I'm the only person >> Yeah. that struggles with this >> who struggles with this is is is a tragic thing because this is a problem that we all we all face and this is the nature of the world in which we live. >> Right. Just for Shiva saying this, I can imagine if a bucker is listening to who's struggling with this and Shiva says this, that immense shame is already released somewhat because if Bakar feels like oh I'm okay then the bakar can get out of the cycle which is amazing thing a very powerful >> 100% 100% men are interested in women has been the case from the onset of the bria >> this is not a new uh issue >> um it's always been the And there's no one who is exempt from this. And uh you know it's important for for everybody to understand that um they're not alone and they're not unique. >> Right? And it's also important to understand that a rebi let's say and the rebi is happily married and he has a a family and children and and a wife and a very very settled home and so on and so forth that there's a strong likelihood that perhaps when this was a teenager he was grappling with simp similar problems >> right >> and it didn't prevent him from being able to get married and have a relationship and have a success uccessful family and so on and so forth. The same thing with you. In other words, what do you think? You think because you have this this uh interest. So it means that you'll never be able to get married. You'll never be able to have a family. You'll never be able to have a proper relationship with a wife etc. Says don't don't assume that. Don't assume that. >> Interesting. >> Right. Don't assume that because could be that these people also had it. just that they they're now past that >> I wanted to thank you so much for his time. I wanted to ask the Shiva closing question as follows that if the Shiva could have everybody in the community listening message about mental health emotional well-being shouted from the rooftops everybody heard it what would that message be several messages one one message is that in structuring your life you should find the thing that will give you happiness and satis satisfaction. Um, do I have time for a story? >> Yeah, sure. >> Okay. Let me tell you years ago, uh, I started a yeshiva in California in San Diego and San Diego was not a natural place for yeshiva. There wasn't a lot of funding available and uh there wasn't a large community that was interested in the yeshiva. So a lot of the fundraising involved going to Los Angeles and speaking to people there who were more understanding. So I was driving a lot, >> right? >> So I would uh listen in the car to to books on tape. >> So I was once listening to a book by famous writer Joseph Campbell wrote a book on the power of myth. >> Interesting >> mythology. Okay. And he said there are certain themes that are common to the mythologies of many many uh countries, many societies. And one of them is this thing of the mythic quest. There was you have people that were searching for something, you know, Jason and the Argonauts searching for the golden fleece or the holy grail or whatever it was. >> And he said that that all these these myths of the mythic quest were really symbolic of people seeking to find their bliss. >> Interesting. In other words, that they were structuring their lives in a way to find that which would give them satisfaction and happiness. And everyone at some point has to ask themselves the question like, am I doing what I really want to do? Is this going to make me happy? Is this going to give me satisfaction? And I remember I'm listening to this as I'm driving to Los Angeles trying to raise money to keep our yeshiva afloat. >> And and I had this question. Is this really what I want to do the rest of my life? fund raise. >> Was I started this yeshiva because I had an idea of what I'd like to accomplish with the yeshiva, but but now I'm spending inordinate amount of time just in survival mode to keep it alive. >> So, I was thinking about this. Anyway, the next day >> I'm back in San Diego >> and I'm looking in the the newspaper >> and there's an article about Bill Walsh. Now, who was Bill Walsh? Bill Walsh was the the coach of the San Francisco 49ers. I think he won four Super Bowls. I mean he was a big coach >> and then he left the coaching he became a commentator for NBC sports and after a year he left that and he went back to coaching college football in Stanford and there was an article in the paper interviewing him and I'm reading this this article and they asked him like like why did he you know leave um television broadcasting where he was making a lot of money to go back to college coaching. So he says that he was a fan of Joseph Campbell and he was reading in one of Joseph Campbell's books about the idea of the mythic quest, finding your bliss. >> And he asked himself, "Is this what I want to do?" >> This is the next day. >> The next day, "Is this what I want to do?" No, coach. No, no, be a broadcaster. Yeah. >> And he said, "No, what he really wants to do is work with kids." So he gave up all the money and he went back to coaching college football which is really what he wanted to do to seek his bliss. And I have to tell you that that episode was a a very strong um push and my decision to ultimately close that yeshiva. >> Wow. >> And ultimately that brought me to Toronto and >> and there but I think that this is this is a fact. A lot of people find themselves in situations and predicaments where their their lives are structured in such ways that that they have no satisfaction or little satisfaction. >> Yeah. >> And really, you know, they they want to do something else. I remember when I was sitting Shiva for my father. So the family barber came, he was a Jewish fellow and uh know as kids he cut our hair and you know >> and and but I never really had a conversation with him and I left Yeshiva home for Yeshiva when I was 14 and after that I you know maybe I got a haircut by him. >> Anyway, but he came for the Shiva and I was talking to him >> and I asked him says if he enjoyed being a barber and he said he hated every minute of it >> really. So I said, "So, so why did you do it?" So he says, "Well, he was an immigrant. He came after the Holocaust. What could he do?" He had no skills. He had no education, right? But he figured he could cut hair. So he became a barber. So I says, "Well, what would you have done if if you could have done anything?" >> So he says he would have gone into gardening. He loved gardening. This was his hobby. >> He loved planting things and growing things and nurturing things. And and if he could have turned that into a parnosa, >> right, >> he would have done that. It was a fascinating thing. And I think a lot of people are like that. They're they're in jobs, they're in professions, they're in situations where they just have no no satisfaction, no happiness. And you're wondering why are are they so, you know, >> right, >> disturbed? If I give everyone a message, I would say that that that the most important thing is you should do something which you feel is meaningful, which gives you satisfaction, which gives you happiness. And uh if you have that, you'll be going a long way towards addressing uh any possible questions of of mental health. Yeah. And I think that okay even if you feel that um it's too late for yourself know don't make that mistake with your children >> when enforcing them in a way >> forcing them in a way sometimes know we vicariously want to live our fantasies to our children. Yeah. >> So you know how many times have I seen the parent who uh has this dream that his child should become a doctor. I remember had it once that there was a there was a a boy in the yeshiva and his parents had his career all planned out. He's a normal doctor, but this boy's Achilles heel was math. He couldn't do math. Well, if you can do math, he couldn't do science. Couldn't do science. He's not getting into medical school. So, was finished >> and and I remember speaking to the parents telling them, listen, it says this boy is not going to go to medical school. He's not going to become a doctor. He can't do math. This is >> everyone is good at something, but not everyone is good at everything. and this boy math is his downfall >> and the parents couldn't couldn't accept it. But interestingly, the boy went into a business field. I don't want to identify exactly what it was because I don't want uh people to guess who it was. And he became very very very extremely successful. >> Oh wow. >> Extremely successful >> in doing what he wanted was good for him. >> He was good at doing. This goes back also to Yeshiva said earlier about a boy in yeshiva um like each boy in yeshiva being able to do what the learning that they should be doing meaning the learning that they connect to and this is really a common theme that she was saying throughout life is that you have to be able to do what works for what makes you happy not what can make the other person happy or what the you know >> this limo or that lim that style of learning >> yeah I think it's one more important thing that that a person has to understand through bonum didn't put us in this world to be martyrs to the cause, right? Put us in this world, you know, less like says to enjoy and the person has to seek his bliss. He has to find that which will give him true satisfaction in life. And I think that if I have to convey one message, I would say do this for yourselves. Do this for your children. Look, everybody's different. You know, there are some people that it'll be in in Talmatyra. Some people it'll be inid. Some people will be in, you know, other forms of asos. Some people will be in in pursuing a profession um a profession that may be of benefit to the community as a whole. >> And uh you know I once was walking in the street. >> Yeah. >> And uh you may remember Mr. pearls. We had the butcher and people it's only a memory now. >> Yeah. >> And uh he stopped me and picked me up and had a conversation with I can't say that I ever had conversation with him before. We were cruising in the car >> and and I came to understand that he really felt that his providing kosher meat to the community was a mission >> and it gave him tremendous satisfaction. >> Wow. that he was able to do this for the community and and it wasn't just a way of making money. It was something that he really passionate about. And I said, "Wow, that's that's that's a beautiful thing >> to be able to to to do something." And it's not just about making money, but it's about, you know, living a life of of meaning and purpose. And and everyone is entitled for that. And that's what the wants. He doesn't want you to be miserable. want you to feel that you're sacrificing for the cause, >> but that to the contrary, you are finding your bliss in doing something which is of value to others. That's a well-lived life and that everyone is entitled to. >> Beautiful. Thank you so much Rashiva for coming. >> Thank you. >> And speaking about it, actually there we're in yeshiva which lives a principles that Rashiva explained and thank you so much. Thank you.