Bava Basra Throughout The Ages

[Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome back Rabbi Dr elazar Brut we now do our regular pre newf episode the ones that we started with where Rabbi Dr elzar brat goes through the historical learning of that the way the learned it learned it always finds a couple of new when I say new I don't mean temporary some that might not be familiar to the rest of the world that were that were special to the and now we turn our attention toas the longest in T and maybe every br will discuss ba K Bas I don't know if he will he won't if he ever did plans on doing it but we would like to thank the sponsor of this episode and the sponsor says that his father always thought Basra was the hardest so here's Basra throughout the ages dedicated by Eli Anda B memory of Mr couple G of Seattle Washington we thank the geners for their dedication to Rabbi br's work and with that I turn it over to Rabbi doctor okay so there's two questions that usually people always want to know which we'll deal with very shortly one is is it really the longest M and does Rashi die in middle of this because we know we have the so that is going to be a big important Point part of this speech okay so first we always talk about like finding some godle or something some story about a with if I'm able to so someone that knew the the Shas wellar in his work describes in a sort of hesp on the Shas that he was by him and he said he watched the following thing he watched himer all of Basra and all of tus Rush standing it took him a few days and um and then he saw him later on he say in a very short period of time the shagar haard all of the MRA and he saw this now T the shagas we spoke in other episodes was legendary and how many times he CH okay anyway this was Babas in the sh I saw also that actually did it in one day sometime one time before I see him for p he decided to learn Basra he wanted to see if he could do it in a day okay anyway the question is is it the longest so we know it has the most plot has 176 plot however what most are able to see right away the many the BL are very short which is good in a way if you had to learn the rash with it forget about it okay so this is a discussion you search online you'll find that supposedly there's a v somewhere um that might have said that really babra is the longest in BL but bras is the longest M okay so today with technology people always very busy um are we able to answer this question so last year Dr Ari zovsky the famous from the Ari and Aris that are found in the mishak magazine from time to time they travel all different exotic places so he writes in Jewish action a lot of interesting articles so he wrote an article on this Farm blog called the longest m is and it's not bastra basically they made different uh ways of figuring out bash does not even come in in the first second third and one of the ways they were able to figure out before we now have the Baran search engine that's able to do word counts exact words is that we have which we've spoken about in the past so if you it's written by one Cipher the whole sh so you can look at each M how long is each because usually a handwriting of one person doesn't change it's a similar handwriting throughout the thing and so amount of words x amount of words will fit on each page you can figure out statistically and the order goes if you do that way is shabas is the longest so and bras is number 11 Bas was not even in the running but that wasn't that wasn't even sh anyway it seems that bras might have the most words per page um but anyway the point is San babab basro is not even in the running um fine okay one is more than welcome to see this article Dr from this Rabbi this doctor Zas on this Farm blog and you could he also tried to track down this gr what does it even mean with the gr it doesn't sound like it's an authentic gr which we know there are many many Gras that are not authentic so we'll just add this to one of them there were attempts to explain what he might have meant but not for now okay moving on the we always discuss the gar what's out there so we have Professor Shaga iamson wrote a um put out an addition of the talud on Basra we have the onra um and we'll see soon which whichi had a manuscript it'll play out a little bit and then there's thei just to mention one Parish which youve quote in the past fromi okay so now the first question I'd like to deal with is does Rashi die in this m so if you look in your standard um if you look LEL in your standard chville all of a sudden middle of rash it says who is that this is already found in in in the early sh branberg Edition okay fine on the side of the Sha someone added in that in the pizaro in Italian printing which is before the brah Edition it says can rash okay Soo if you're going to look to see where it says these three words you'll see their pagination is not the same as bramberg which is the way our today we go go the bramberg Edition this is before this is 1510 so they have St stuck in that they have a m that Rashi died now the answer is how they have such M because different they when they were printing their sh they had they used the manuscripts that they used someone must have written this in there okay so the question is does Rashi die here or not soel um looking back sometimes the answer be found in looking back in the manuscripts so this Eli who's the sponsor of the she he's fascinated with Rashi so he actually sent me um one in one of the manuscripts he found that it was interesting L that Rashi he didn't it wasn't that Rashi died in Middle necessarily he specifically left for the rasham his talmid his grandson to be able to complete this to complete his perish on it mean say he felt not nothing to do with him now the reason why this makes might make sense is we have a problem which is already raised by the famous in the historical work he talks about that that he there's a Kasha right it says over here according to were saying Rashi dies but if you look elsewhere which is where at the end of Maus it says his son-in-law Etc so we see so it's interesting what's going on a Ste these things so he says that the this writes that razi this this type of question what's going on it says in one place we say Rashi dies in babab baster and here he's dying over here so like this it would sound like maybe he died in Maus and what happened is in Babas he didn't die he left this M for him interestingly enough did rash even write a pish on on Basra or there's anything from on Basra so in from and onwards so points out that yes there is you could see the rashan quotes his rebi the Rashi a few times at least in this thing so it could be there really was a work or some form of a work of Rashi on on babra and the rest of the so to speak okay is another early historical work from so he also talks about um this issue with Rashi and everything and rasham he says like this he's talking about the greatness of Rashi wrote this Parish no one was um except for bastra which is interesting because we know we've already discussed already a few other M that Rashi didn't write on but he says um ex except he's and he goes that he dies in and the rash came along and he finished it but he said he wasn't um but his Parish he points out is very long it could be that he even actually wrote a parish on more but and he also has interesting L that um he wrote he went to show him to get sort of a from his Z and his and his and it seems that Rashi was impressed with it okay but it sounds like also maybe Rashi from this it sounds like that maybe Rashi was felt that it was too long okay these are these are conversations that there's no real answers at the end of the day right and the rest of besides other that we know about okay but about this thing of Rashi dying so we actually once mention a drop a b we'll just mention a drop right now brings down old that one has to be careful learning certain it says like this Rashi dies when he's talking about that they didn't learn the following and then some people didn't learn B why not because Rashi got sick and died so then he says say he has his m is that Rashi only gets sick in Bash but he dies in Maus which would ends up answering this the fine but he says if you learn the would only be if you learning it yourself maybe we discussed this when we discussed about learning Maus um um not ma we discussed this also and we'll just mention this m that I brought down from V an incredible saer that was printed from manuscript called he says like this which is how why when he was giving he died so dies when somee holds okay anyway shows that there were some that didn't know that rash is the person who wrote the rest of the perod on fine different says yes but we know um he has all these he there's two different of how he gave this type ofo I'll quote one of them one he says like this when he gave his she for he quoted um it says what rash that the rest of the is fine and there's two different if he dies or not so said the that only the that says Rashi that Rashi Never Dies so that is wrong because why because we always have him and we when we learn Kul we have Rashi so he's he never really dies and it doesn't make a difference where he dies whatever okay fine going on to the perish of the for a second soash we see it's that's what makes this so long so um interesting not points out that if you look back into this this which we which we quoted earlier which is the one that has the of Rashi there is more material there that might be from the rashbam that which is short which is not written in the long version of the rashbam that we have for for x amount of blot something like 25 blot and that was lost so to speak and he when he publishes it he publishes it and and he says first thinks it's ra and then he says noash has this long which is what's found on and there was also at least on 25 blad and this was published more recently in 1985 um it's what's what significance of this is the had they're able to prove that the used this gar thiso from 1510 and he's using when he's referring to the rasham he's using this this this version this this short perish that was lost in the from locat even in the rashi's parish there are some materials in the first 29 BL it seems that there is some pieces from the rashan okay anyway let's move on um we have the rashbam we have Rashi what else exists if one was learning the so throughout the ages the the printing press so this is how we always do it there was only four they only had four that existed and this is the breakdown the ramban was published right away in the beginning in 1503 but it wasn't published that many times and pretty much that was it for the ramban fast forward a few hundred years about 200 years 1702 is the first time we get a the remash the remash um which is beyond significant we have his perish on Basra and the first time I said it's perish is 1702 what's the significance of the remash so everyone knows the ramb was crazy into the his he writes um his incred had this unbelievable you say something about the andess some people even many people when they talk aboutum say that he's the rebi of the ramban turns out this is a question and it doesn't really make sense that he could be the re of the Raman based on the years turns out he's the rebi of the father of the r and we have he quotes that even though um that just that the Nudo was is because he he he felt so he was so into him um um and that's why he called him but was really his father say it's not about the um it's not about that he himself learned by him it's because through the learning of his father who was his re okay now so basically 1702 it's published and um it's published a few other times in 1973 it's published Again by wh Shapiro this time when it's add he add they add in a bunch of new pieces that they discover where they discover it we'll see shortly and even today they find more pieces of remash but the point is we're having a significant region that we as far as we're going Al Basra we have not come across other per of his on on a whole M did it exist it seems that that there were masas this TMA deals with at length in his his article about family in volume two the next work that's published is the when is this published in 1774 but it's not complete only in 1790 1791 is the rest of the parish printed in the back of the yadama which we'll get to in a second and when you look at theas which we've done in the past you open up the sh already you could see how incredible the shet is already making the difference for learning the M because it had it's an excellent collection all the various that that he had and the manuscripts he had and he refers to over here he has the r he has he has the ran he has the remash and others also so so and it get and when it's published in 1774 it gets a from the which is important for other aspects that we've discussed in other episodes not for so now but the Y when's the Y this is RA which we have discussed because other materials of his have been published on other but this is where he becomes famous his so he's also an early re it's also when it published in 1790 right around the same this is little after shet is published in the 1770s and as they said in the back of this is the is some more parts of the Shas that wasn't published this also has a beautiful as from the and this great R is also the subject of a lot of discussion Tash is a book from Professor Septimus and others have a lot B okay so the point is that bastra for at least for these few 200 years there's four that one might have been able to locate in these places from the 1500s and onwards but the question is is there more so like this when you look in the which is which is bringing us to 1881 he has more he has a RV that he had from the library of which we spoke about he has which he got from the a manuscript present fromer which is interesting um he refers to this in the sh of his copy of the AL which we have today you could locate a manuscript the copy this manuscript online and it says there he got it from who he got it from this is the Kusa and brother-in-law the sh we spoke about him all the way back in the episode about MIM controversy he's the of the sh they learned they wrote M together so he also had manuscripts and he gave it to the we also have of the this is one of the only one of the first we have this material who has this also he had other materials so he's unique which we've discussed in the past he has materials that no one else has the question is is there any other materials on so far we have this Mur this m that's murdered to learn it's long and we don't have any Story Goes Like This the 1880s they seek out all different information out there so they get on the side of you open up your they have is it really where they get this from they get this from Alexander C he was the person big expert in the sa and he out the AR at one point in time a massive set of today it's a bunch of volumes on of the AR and he's interesting person he ends up making it to America his wife his second wife wrote interesting autobiography in English which she discusses him and life in America in the 1880s and onwards but they got it from him the M the person who is the foot noter so to speak and put it out is the okay even with all that there still mistakes crept into this work andman in more than one place seems to say that to even though he's Pro using new manuscripts sometimes was nervous because of the mistakes in this particular manuscript okay but interestingly enough people seek out always is there a marar for making a Kish for a girl so it's been pointed out to me many years ago by of mine famous person his name was his name is um that in rabim it sounds like there's a marar how he has a certain gar in the gamar to make a KES for a girl which is very good because people always look for people say it's very late and it's possibly if you learn up this piece in R such a thing and then this new addition of RA which I'm about to mention that just came out two three years ago they bring down a few more contemporary people that also picked up on this line in R okay L 1998 a different Edition came out of re G based on some other manuscripts and today two years ago or a year ago a fellow went and put in showing all various rashash kakas rias from that you could bring various raid based on okay A friend of mine published an article that his name is also of pieces that he found of more pieces of that he discovered in manuscript and was published in one of these journals that I could send that a PDF it's a it's just a few block the question is is this raim who is this is it one person is it a few people is this is relates to the famous R everyone knows the what's that even so this there's a lot of literat we're not going to go through but the point is the first basically thing that gets published that's new in the 1880s already starts with r moving on we've always discussed is their GIC literature so so here does not have we've quoted in the past many times from this y we spoke a little bit about him even in the episodes ofi but what happens there were people that did collect materials and in 2017 just a few short years ago professor bro the leading expert in and some other people made a h for this leine project on and they published a bunch a massive volume comb together from all different places of the materials to look at there even an article which I always find very important where someone wrote which I'm happy to send the benefit of different few sample Su the mil of having now and what it helps for in understanding different s so that that what about are there any new discoveries in the answer is yes and this we get to um someone that I don't not always that I get around to talking about him properly and that is known as today in many Shu libraries the Shiva libraries they have two massive shelves of tons and tons of most places they still gather dust but there are plenty of people that seem there aush for them and what this fellow did remarkable remarkable printed like a crazy amount something like 36 36 volumes and some of these volumes could have five six different on even works incredible incredible project that this person took on he began it seems in the early 50s he was he he learned in the Mir Shai he was Affiliated and his story is obviously something worth telling but not right now but I think is when he really becomes put on the map why because he puts out the everyone knows major Discovery such as the RIT that's you know when you're learning and you have a RIT that's something else and he discovers this in the 1950s and he gets impressive withas dasas also tell a fascinating tale but not for now but just to mention some of the names Al Meltzer Baron Cutler or herzstein the and many others and you could see that they got very impressive as scas endorsing his project which it seems this took this was the kickstarter that got him mov on further it seems this the ad has was authenticated because already it had Etc in more recent years the the cook has published based on more manuscripts of the which is always the story but this is not where the story of Blau ends if we're going to talk about he ends up publishing a volume where he makes Amazing Discoveries number one so we're used to many of the that we've spoken about already had has it on the side this m is one of the first masas that doesn't have it but are there pieces if you look in you'll see there many places that there are materials fromo there was a 30 years ago that collected a bunch of materials of of and even as recent as a few years ago Professor Sim Emanuel discovered in in a fragmented pieces in the library in the gas of the European as it's called Ai and also seems to have new pieces of so they're always discovering it but BL in the 80s publishes on B Bas a bunch of new materials of in the same volume Prince someone who calls him also another reion which is discussed now just to fast for where is this coming from so there's aish which we've discussed which is written around 1190 in 1960 just of the is published and from here we have the materials that I mentioned that was published earlier from the remash in the in By the Great rashash Shiva of Shapiro so he used this when he was working on his remash and others um that that was their source so that's what BL used for but he also has from the which I mentioned who has this the but he finds more now What's significant is this is known as the rid or some sometimes he called the Ry so there's a lot of material B in tma's works and this Shalom Y and his work BL Al discovers yet another this is also that's not so well known about him but in his work on the credible work on the balar he deals with this reion so again we're showing that BL publishes four and a fifth is so basically what's happening is all of a sudden you see the is getting more and more we Discovery the these five so the list gets all of a sudden got much higher then you have the Raja first time publish is 1957 this is its own credible story which we don't have time to tell now but we mentioned briefly this um this God who was very I also so him but this is tied into the has thez project on the Ran So him and his son they work on they publish this Raj from on so now all of a sudden this has becoming much and much more not but that we have theim that we could finally help us we have the Raj finally we have the finally and we have all these other but then another Discovery Al we don't have so much this happens in 1965 again in 1979 which also Beyond important but then the story continues 1971 this ra who the one who publishes who I mentioned already who had this a manuscript he publishes a work he calls a turns out 1989 by then they're able to identify the sh is who is this person a lot has been published from him in more recent years originally they thought he was closer to the rambam and his base man turns out no he's not he's a little later this is the latest research from this ad Brer in article in yes L okay anyway then the is published for the first time in 1962 in 1989 the 1956 all of a sudden so I'm trying to show is from the 50s and onwards while gets Galore I've shown this has happened before in other of these series especially so here you see what's happening how we'll just go very briefly with over here is like this there's no P about it so one cute story I came across is had a tremendous and and he says how does he know that there's no he says because he always constantly cross references himself in all different places and he never once even mentions that there a Yeshua fast forward a bunch of years later comes out of which is very well known from gr who is he's famous for being the author of The so he gets his safer is considered the on in many circles for many years when's the first published in 1846 so said that they sort of gave this and and he said this over now y book the head of who's a of he he heard this from one time he got very nervous he thought he found the manuscript that was theu so he's stuck you know one hand a major but he knew what said a proof that there's no so the whole time he's learning this he's trying to figure out whatever at the end he was able to verify I I think would have been happy if it would have been theu and he would have been proven wrong he would have been able to handle it anyway the point is that was the it's one of what's interesting is he doesn't have any of these amazing that we have in our generation which changes the limit of the just to mention briefly is any other so just to mention the following fast 1808 there's a saer 1822 which has then there's a later saer in the 1890s beautiful from okay what about so there's plenty Gore just to mention who for me is very important and for many people in K he's the major mafish of the mag he dies in 1806 so in 1958 they publish a work of his on from on and now in 1807 there's an interesting L his son-in-law writes when they published after he dies that he was the r in basz for 60 years and he says thousands of this is a remarkable number anyway if one wants to read more about him in yes in volume published that he gave who he was to meet same time when they came to they they when they were thrown out of Frankfurt a whole different story which we actually mentioned maybe a little bit in the episode on the and he gives a beautiful hpit a bunch of pages and one could read some interesting things over there in this is found in okay just to mention to conclude we have re who devoted a whole episode to him there's a whole volume published on the great is published for manuscript and we have from wants to read about him um wrote a lot about him this great God and so is a very very useful safer also found on Hebrew books and the last but not least is Frank an incredible incredible job making a massive fat volume and there's plenty plenty others of them but this is just to mention a of what happened how Babas was learned you see that our generation was blessed with unbelievable amounts of someone could properly learn through this m and penetrate it in ways that has not been penetrated before and just to conclude we will have an episode where we will deal with specifically the the garas of bar there's a bunch of far specifically written for those garas at the time closer to that we will deal with those a little bit amazing wow so in under half an hour he gave a velt of information and once again we thank the Gau family for their dedication memory of Mr couple genau from Seattle Washington and we hope that the learning should be an eer for his Nish thank you Rabbi BR looking forward to seeing you again soon