Rabbi Yehoshua Weber - Shemitta Part 2: Spirituality, Social Stability or Both

last week, so we'll do that. We can't continue without sort of restating the you know the points that were made. Um To me at this point in my life some of these points seem obvious, but you know we all approach from a different vantage point, but basically we what we established last week is we introduced Rishonim that offered two completely different approaches to Shmita about what the mitzvah is all about. Now again, how could this probably give mitzvahs? You don't know why you got this probably gives mitzvahs and you're playing with fire by saying well this is the reason for the mitzvah and then oh well the mitzvah no longer reason no longer applies I could sort of cheat. That's what Reform did and look look look at what happened, right? So we keep mitzvahs no matter what. But we try to understand what mitzvahs are about because because we love when you love somebody you try to understand the person, right? You try to appear and try to understand the child. The husband tries to understand the wife. When you love somebody you try to understand them. We love our mitzvahs we try to understand them. We don't again the mitzvahs aren't about why we keep them. We keep them because God has brought who said we speculate and maybe the speculations are right, maybe they're wrong. We have we we shared two different approaches and we have to go back and the right here in front of you one is the Rambam one is the Chinuch. We'll start with the Chinuch again the Chinuch is well known. The Chinuch paints Shmita as being about Kedusha. You work six days the seventh is Kedusha. There's shul, there's family, there's davening, there's kiddush, Kedusha. Um and there's self-control and and and it's it's it's it's special. That's what um that's what um Shabbos is about. Going to the Chinuch that's what Shmita is about. They get no good. Shmita is also about you work six years on the seventh year you don't work it's Kedusha. Um you learn, you have time with your family, but it's about Kedusha. How are you going to survive? You trust in the Kadosh Baruchu like Shabbos. That's the Chinuch. Everyone knows this. Kids go to school and they're taught this. This is you know this is you know I these ideas are my holy game they're well developed. And then Chinuch says it also teaches you bitachon us. You know, you own your field, but for the seventh year you're on your own and you can't work it. You have to let people walk through your field. So, it's it's it's it's it's really about kedusha, about self-betterment. The Rambam says nothing of the sort. The Rambam says it's for practical reasons. If you farm your land seven years straight, you're going to ruin the soil. It has to rest. It's about allowing the soil to regenerate its nutrients. He doesn't say anything else. Now, is there also kedusha? Is there also self-control? Of course. Maybe, but he doesn't say anything about that. This is all he says. And then we developed other theories as to why, you know, why it's the same year. But what we did point out is that it really, really I think informs the great divide in Eretz Yisrael. And it's really important to, you know, we're able to visualize whichever community you're a part of and respect the other community cuz these people living in Eretz Yisrael, there's the Haredi community where the mindset is is that the right way to keep shmita is not to work the land. And Hakadosh Baruch Hu will provide and that's what the um the um Torah tells you. There is um the general Mizrahi approach which is exactly the opposite. Their approach is, well, if you don't farm the land for the entire year, Israeli agriculture will will close because um you can't continue having a business where every seven years you tell your clients, I I don't want to do business with you, right? >> And the Arabs will buy the land. And then the Arabs will buy the land and you'll lose out on all the mitzvot of Eretz Yisrael. You'll no longer have shmita, you'll no longer have trumah, you'll no longer have ma'aser, you'll no longer have orlah, um the um um the the None of these mitzvot are relevant cuz you're not going to have that um on the same level cuz it's being grown by Arabs. And on top of that, there's going to be big security issues if Arabs own the land. Um how dangerous is that? That's 90% of the land. So, dafka, you should do what you can to maintain control of the land. You now let a farm the land, well, sell the land. You sell your hametz to a guy every Pesach, you'll sell the land to a guy and and have guy in farm the land. Those are the two, you know, two worlds and each world is very adamant about it being correct. Um Haredim don't feel that their approach is b'di'avad. Mizrahi don't feel that their approach is b'di'avad. And they're all very very, you know, passionate about their approach and and and and they really push for their approach because I think it's correct. >> [snorts] >> Now, all of these ideas, the ideas go back to the Rambam and the Chinuch, but they're really developed by the Rishonim and the Acharonim that discuss the subject. That's where we left off last week. Right? So, I think we began saying and I'm continuing where you left off. All of this really became a great issue with the late 19th century. You know, for ever since the churban of Eretz Yisrael, you had Jews who lived in Eretz Yisrael. There was never a moment where Jews didn't live in Eretz Yisrael. Um there was always a small community in Kehilat Yerushalayim um for periods of time that not have a community, vast periods of time that not have a community, but there was always a Jewish uh settlement in Israel. And there actually wasn't much of an Arab population. Israel was desolate. So, it's not as if Israel was Arab and not Jewish. It was really it was really swamp and desert and and and and uninhabited. Did anyone ever read Mark Twain's account of his trip to Israel in the 19th century? Mark Twain was not Jewish and he really didn't interact with Jews much cuz he lived in the US in in the middle of the 19th century in a very small Jewish community. He goes to Israel. He's um Welcome back. I missed you. Um he goes to Israel. He is blown away by um by what he says are the the the promises of the Torah coming true. It's really, you know, maybe I'll email it to the group. Mark Twain himself had no Jewish background, no Jewish exposure. He was a Christian. He went to Palestine on a church visit in middle of the 19th century and he walked away saying, "You know, the Torah is true because all the prophecies in the Torah have come true." The Torah tells you that the Jews will be expelled from Israel and Israel will become desolate and he visits this land that clearly had been fertile for ever and it's it's one big wasteland. The north is a wasteland, the south is a wasteland and he said this proves that the Torah is true. This is a non-Jew. And he's basing it not just on the fact that Jews have wanted for hundreds of years that scene, not on what we see in our day that Jews have come back to Israel and resurrected Israel which to many of us is is is a clear fulfillment of divine promises. And yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I'll I'll send it to the group. It's available. And he's a non-Jew. He's not He's not partisan to the Jew Jewish thinking. He's not trying to be Arab Mona. He just says it's obvious that the Bible that he studied is is is obviously coming true. So why am I sharing this? It was really destined but there were always small Jewish communities. And what did people do historically? How did people survive? So now in the US, I I think it's less than 2% of the population of farmers. When I was growing up, it was 3%. It go down goes down every year because everything is mechanized and they have big tractors and one farmer can produce enough food for tens of thousands of people, right? But there was no machinery. There was no mechanization. There was no transport. There was no proper storage. So 90 plus percent of people were farmers. They had some artisans. Many of the Jews who lived in Israel over the hundreds of years from the Hurban to now survived as farmers. How did they survive Shmita? They didn't farm. They would have just starved, right? No one collected for them in other lands. So the idea of selling the land to a guy and surviving on the profits is not anything new. It's something Jews did historically. So, you might say it's not so a b'dieved, maybe. According to Mizrachi, it's l'chatchila. According to the Charedi world, it's a b'dieved. But, it's something that was done historically for hundreds of years. Just the way, I mean, within this room, I assume everyone sells their chametz. Right? Well, why do you sell your chametz? Just, you know, it's not such a big sacrifice to throw out your chametz. >> Scotch doesn't smell so bad. Okay. Um, but throw it out, right? So, so we're not going to throw out our scotch because it's How much is it? $200, $300? Um That's each bottle. A thousand dollars, 10 I actually had in Toronto it's a wealthy community. So, I remember actually some of the people who sold their chametz, I would ask them the price and I would tell them to underestimate and they were putting down five figures. I didn't say anything, but you know, these people lived within that world. Um, it it really made sense. You are historic as they got older. Right, but but again, why not just trust in Hakadosh Baruch Hu and and keep the mitzvah and get rid of it? So, none of us do that, right? All of us sell our scotch and that's that. And and we're dealing with an absolute d'oraita. So, shmita today, you know, just for all is probably a d'rabbanan. So, we're asking farmers to sort of give up their livelihood not relying on that that we rely on. I mean, it the whole thing is, you know, both perspectives make sense. So, if a farmer wants to and and and and and they collect stuff to support them. >> views are also they're both So, so so shmita is probably a d'rabbanan today. There's a um, it's probably d'rabbanan. So, it's actually a little bit of a debate. Most Jews are in Israel, most Jews aren't in Israel. Um, um, is um, is but do you need Shmita is dependent on different factors. Right. So, for shmita you need most Jews in Israel, maybe you need representatives of each shavet in So, shmita is probably d'rabbanan, some will say d'oraita, cuz perhaps most Jews are in Israel, but perhaps not. But even if most Jews are there, because uh so, maybe it's only d'rabbanan. But again, what are the 10 shvatim that are gone? Are are they ever going to come back? So, this itself is a discussion, right? There you know, we grow >> these factors work with the Rambam who says that it's no, it's for practical reasons? >> Right. So, I'm I'm So, each each goes back and forth. So, again, shmita is again, there are these two opinions. I mean, I sensed last week that within our group, you know, people were sort of dismissive of the Mizrahi approach. Uh no? >> [laughter] >> Um that's all. I just don't want people to be dismissive of any approach. Um each approach has has strong halakhic legs to stand on. And again, there were different communities full of yirei shamayim who really want to do ratzon Hashem. One says it's really about um doing ratzon Hashem by trusting in HaKadosh Baruchu. One says it's doing ratzon Hashem by strengthening the land. The whole point of shmita was strengthening the land. Let it lie fallow every seventh year so it strengthens. That doesn't work now. Today, it's it's the opposite. Today, if you don't work the land, you'll end >> [clears throat] >> Right. Right. Right. So, really, I mean, >> I wouldn't say if I follow or not, but if somebody go is against it, I'm definitely against it and I close Okay. Right. >> [snorts and clears throat] >> Okay. So, I I'm also again, to be against against is a great way to live your life. To be against against is is just beautiful. And so, here we have the shitas lined up. So, but again, we began developing it last year week. I have to build on it. I have to go back. So, four, five, six are three acharonim I brought down last week. Seven is a little bit uncomfortable. I brought it down. And again, historically, I was not taped. I hope this is not the biggest mistake I made in my life. But um seven is an uncomfortable source to read. I'll read it. But five four, five, six is not so uncomfortable. Um Um Um four sometimes we don't even take it sometimes we shut the recorder off, right? Okay. Um so four and five are are are thought of so identify with the Mizrachi approach which say you're supposed to sell the land. It's not about the effort. Six is the Hazon Ish who says you're actually not supposed to sell the land. Let's see them all inside and then we'll see seven and seven's uncomfortable but I think it's well worth saying. So four. Okay, this is Rav Kook. Rav Kook is the one who issued the heter mechirah. Truth is it was not such a novel thing. Okay? But he sort of made it the base for the contemporary issue Shmita was coming. Um suddenly instead of just having a few Jews living in Yerushalayim and in scattered settlements, you had large farming communities. What were they going to do? So they turned to Rav Kook who was really um you know the Rav of that, you know, part of Eretz Yisrael. I would venture to say and this is um again everyone has different readings on Rav Kook. But I would ask you as a frum Jew, can I maybe ask this to you Menachem? As a frum Jew, which Rav of the 19th, 20th, 21st century is the Rav that most frum Jews connect with? You would say Rav Moshe Feinstein. You would say? You You would say? I don't think Lubavitch is very big. They would say the Lubavitcher Rebbe. I would think Moshe Feinstein is the posek for the Litvaks. Satmar is huge. And Satmar is the leader, spiritual leader, mentor, guide. Someone say Satmar. So So I would you know Satmar is very big. Lubavitch has I don't know if Lubavitch is as big but Lubavitch touches many people. The Yeshiva world is very but I A lot of people A lot of people I would say like more people know who the Lubavitcher Rebbe is than know who Rav Moshe Feinstein is. But who would touch who would guide who would form? Many Right. So, people in Lubavitch are formed by the Lubavitcher Rebbe, right? By his By people in Satmar formed by the Satmar Rebbe. People in the Yeshiva community are formed by the Ramash in a different way. That is Um Do you know who Which That Which is the Which is Which is the leader of the last 100 years who impacted more from people than anyone? I am certain I'm comfortable saying that it's Rav Kook. Now, let's go through the numbers. In Eretz Yisrael, about 13% of the population is Haredi now. About 16, 17, 18% is Dati Leumi. The whole Dati Leumi world was created by Rav Kook, right? So, that world, really, if you walk into any one of the schools, the main picture there is going to be Rav Kook. So, then you have the whole Mitzrati world, which is 20, 30, 40 Most of Israel is Mitzrati. Very few people are are cut from there. Or most people live 2/3. Um now it must be 75%, but years ago it was only 2/3. Don't eat basar b'chalav. So, most people live with some halachic construct. And Rav Kook is the the rav that speaks to it. In North America, it's reversed. In North America, the Haredi community, Jewish Week did a poll, is 2/3 of the Orthodox community. 1/3 is Modern Orthodox Centrist. But, that world is also formed by Rav Kook. Because the whole idea of Centrist and Modern Orthodoxy mixing, you know, being in the secular world, being religious, um second >> [clears throat] >> What? Right, but [snorts] Hirsch is I mean, Hirsch is sort of removed. Hirsch is going back to the 19th century. Rav Kook is really So, in in and you will see if you walk into a Dati Leumi school, and I taught in these schools, the picture is going to be Rav Kook more than Rav Hirsch. So, [snorts] he I would say he is the man. Um again, you can identify with his writings, you cannot, but he's probably the man who formed most of contemporary Orthodoxy thinking. Just by the numbers. I think so. Now again, some will disagree and I'm certainly up to hearing and but just think, think outside, you know, you live in your community. So if your community is is Lubavitch, you'll say it's Lubavitch. But that's it's just not fair, that's your community. Within the macro greater Jewish world and and the that Tlemcen communities of in Israel's sections of it are very learned, very scholarly, very involved in learning with their own Yeshivas and system. So >> [laughter] >> so he he was really important. I don't think he should So he's writes passionately that of course you do it. This is what this is what the Torah wants. And then you have Rabbanim in in Europe who are writing the same thing. They're saying, well, this is obvious, right? Now, there are technical issues because what is that to make here? You're selling land to a guy. Well, you're not allowed to sell land to a guy in Eretz Yisrael. So we began saying this last week. Some of this is repetition, but it's what the group wanted. But I want you to see how this develops. So look at four, Binyan Lo S'chanim, shall I sell him to a guy for you know I'll sell land to a guy in Eretz Yisrael? He said, well, Yefeh Hayit Chai, if you're selling it to a guy who has land, it's not like S'chanim. Because what is Lo S'chanim? Don't give them a hold on the land. He has a hold on the land. It's Well, we So Lo S'chanim is a passing term that means we Because you're not supposed to You know, Lo S'chanim means many things. But one of the many things is Lo S'chita Lechem Chani Ba'aretz. Don't give them a hold on the land. So the But he is he's living there anyway. What? So So then he says it also. And then he says on top of that, you're not selling it permanently, you're selling it for a year, so it's not really selling it. And then if you're selling it to a Muslim who isn't an over by the Torah, maybe there's no issue, maybe it's a way There's a lot of a term. But again, you're relying on a term for Is there a non-Jew or or or not over by the Torah? So they dafka That's a debate also. They dafka in Eretz Yisrael that when they dafka sell to a Muslim allowed to work the land. So they dafka try to minimize the problem by selling it to a Muslim because I think it's one less it's one additional component. You know, I just like mechiras chametz was not a Why why don't we just like not do it at all? How about that? No, because because you're not allowed to work the land, right? You have to keep the halacha. You're not allowed to work the land. >> Yeah, but when we sell our chametz, we're getting it back. So, why don't we do the same thing? So, you are. So, so, so that's another factor. He says, "If you're selling it to get it back, maybe it's not a violation." You're saying permanently or just for the shmita year? So, they sell it just for the shmita year to the guy. And >> or temporarily? It could be. So, that also was the He brings it down. Rav Cook brings it down. So, you know, I just hear the rabbonim in Monsey get together for mechiras chametz. It's actually very nice. Um like 30, 40 like so many. >> Not many, right? Yeah, many. They sell to one guy and and there's like 20 mechiras in Toronto also who do because you want to make sure you do this type of mechira and that type of mechira and that type of Every opinion, every Yeah, because you want to cover all your bases. Lawyers do the same sometimes. Every guy gives a dollar. Everyone gives a dollar and everyone does mechira and everyone does this and everyone does that and everyone does There's like 50 types of It just goes on and on. >> guy's going to start telling you who's doing the right and wrong. Right. And then so, and everyone has a document and everyone you do it which is it should be something very serious, right? And if it's a a big transaction, you're not sure, you might cover your bases also with different legal documents. I think secular people do the same. >> [laughter] >> So, I have a beer distribution which is known beer distribution is the distribution is owned by Jewish guy. >> Right. >> Now, a couple years ago, Right. >> trying to convince him to sell it. Right. >> "I'm not selling this. I'm not selling." And they They had these rabbis talking to him. So, I know somebody that was involved in it. And he's like, "Well, they you're you're selling it, but you're not selling." He goes, >> [laughter] >> "What are you guys talking about? If I'm not selling, then what am I doing? Right. >> interested in selling. How am I >> [laughter] >> Same like as it is. Right. So, I'm just saying we as the community rely on this when it's relevant to us, right? So, here it's relevant to So, he's very Yeshua was a great rub in Europe who was also very supportive of this right to say who is the great is very passionate in the opposite direction. So, again the community that is opposed to this has has a strong foundation. But let's see. Yeshua's I'm Europe like 19th century. He might be cheating this of five. It's good to allow this. You're not allowed to a guy. Six kilometers away from the station. It's about building up the issue. So, it's not about you're not allowed to sell land cuz you're not allowed to destroy Jewish ownership of Israel. But the reverse the whole point of the sale is to allow Jews to own land. So, of course you're allowed to do what he says. So, he says this is not allowed to destroy the Jewish hold on land. It's the reverse. And then he goes to the thing that you mentioned. It's do it better sell it you know you can get it back. Which the rely on that. So, here too. And he says so that was then maybe now that there are more Jews in Israel maybe it's allowed. Then the question becomes technical. Are the fruits do they have it or not but that's is absolutely emphatic in the opposite direction. Says not true. He says you know and you have to be very careful here. You know once you start saying well if the reason doesn't seem to resonate I'm not going to keep the that's what the reform did. What did the reform say? They said well pork is about it's about illnesses so we don't have to keep pork. And circumcision is about cleanliness. Well clean and about hygiene. And and abandoning all these mitzvahs. They they did. Okay? So, he said, "Lo sichanu means you're not allowed to sell the land to a goy." And that's it. Period. So, there are shitas that say if he owns another piece of land, you're allowed to. There are other shitas that say that that's not so. You You have to be machmir. There are shitas who say that it apply the issue is only to the avodah zarah. He says, "Not true. The issue is to all goyim." He was very emphatic in the opposite direction. It's interesting that the just question the reading of it. He's not making this point that shmita is rest and don't do anything with it. He's just making the argument not to sell it to the Right. >> It's interesting. Right. Right. Right. Right. Cuz he's he's focusing on the technical halacha. You know, the spirit he's focusing on the technical halacha. So, again, there is a strong base for the Chareidi approach on this and and and there are so many other writers like the Chazon Ish. They They don't care if he has land or he doesn't because every additional piece of land he sells is Second line. Um And even though you can debate with the sources, not true. And then he says, "I mean, tell me shmita is maybe derabbanan, maybe it's deraisa." He goes through many, you know, you know, there's a strong in the opposite direction. I will say I was sort of debating whether I should include this. Um I'm okay with that. Right. [laughter] Okay. >> It's your address, not mine. Uh covered in Torah. Yes. You know, took his Shabbos box that is delivered he said is is the most beautiful of Shabbos. Um because and this is stuck which is so it's it's so wonderful that our community can do that that we're But who could have imagined this before the war? I mean, um this was a world where people were really starved, right? So, and and this is what people were grappling with. These people immigrated to Israel. Many of them were secular, but they were very devout. They believed. They were And Rav Kook sort of put it in perspective. The people who came to the original Kibbutzim had a tremendously high death rate. They went to areas where they drained swamps and and many of them caught malaria and died. The death rate was was extraordinarily high. They had to, you know, >> are you bargaining for? Right. They But they they knew this coming in. They were passionate. They were, you know, they were outside the city, so they were marauding Arabs. They had to, you know, work the fields all day and they had to defend it at night and they died. Death rate was was atrocious. These people were really passionate. Um and and and and and so they were angry. Right, wrong, I'm not but I'm just saying. Now, okay. Now, just to sort of put it in perspective, I will say >> [clears throat] >> Just to add a component to the the more traditional Chazonish perspective than the Rav Kook perspective. Menachem and I were were learning this week, last week, and when we talk about Shmita, the Pasuk goes out of its way to say Shmita L'Hashem. Again, every word in the Torah is so powerful. What does L'Hashem So So Shabbos we know has a divine aspect. But why Shmita L'Hashem? So the Chizkuni, who interestingly enough was really from the Rambam's world. Chizkuni lived in Provence in Southern France. He was a rationalist. He had a scientific inclination. That was really his style. Chizkuni says, why does the Torah go out of its way to say Shabbos L'Hashem? That phrase is unnecessary. He says, Dafke, he doesn't quote the Rambam. Okay. But he says, Dafke, to show you that it's not about fertility of the soil, it's not about letting the land lie fallow, it's it's about a religious experience. And the Chizkuni is not really, you know, you have the Rishonim who are sort of on one side of the divide, the Ramban, black and white, you know, Kabbalah, the Sefira. You have the Rambam who is more modern that way, the Ibn Ezra. Chizkuni is is usually more towards the Rambam, more towards Here he makes a point of saying Shabbas Shomem means that it's divine. Another piece that I'll bring to the puzzle, we discussed this Menachem, but here we'll share the sources because they're really so so interesting. Would be um again, I think this adds a little bit of credence to the to the Chinuch. It It really leads you away from the Rambam. There are There's not one mitzvah of Shmita. There are two mitzvahs of Shmita and they're totally different. What are the two mitzvahs of Shmita? >> [snorts] >> So, there's But what two two type two frameworks of mitzvah, two areas of mitzvah, completely different areas. >> So, what what does the Lo Sa'aseh The Lo Sa'aseh says for sure trees and grains and living stuff do what? There's Shmitas Karka'os, which means not working the land, and the Shmitas Ksafim, which means forgiving loans every seventh year. Completely different areas of Halacha, right? With completely different sets of Halacha, right? Now, what is the oddest thing in the world about these two mitzvahs, about how they're brought down? And once you notice it, you can't stop noticing it. Once I'll ask you the question, you'll tell yourself, I mean, cuz the first time I came across the question, I said, "Why didn't they ask this when I was 2 years old? Such an obvious question." What is most obvious question about Shmitas Karka'os and Shmitas Ksafim? Where was Shmitas Ksafim first mentioned? In Parshas Re'eh. There isn't a word about Shmitas Ksafim in the first part of the Torah. In the first part of the Torah, really Behar, where it's featured most, you have Karka without Kesef. In Re'eh, you have Kesef without Karka. I mean, what is this? Um Both of these mitzvahs are Deoraisa. Why aren't they brought down together? Why? So, there were lots of answers, lots of answers given. There's a Ramban. I don't want I mean, we're short on time. The Ramban says According to the camera, it was off. Oh, oh, oh, so we can go over time, right? So, um um Yeah, yeah, something funny happened with the camera midstream today. It stopped working, I think. Yeah. Well, you feel what? I think the camera stopped working midstream. You fixed it last night, right? >> good. >> Good, good, good. Okay. Cuz it stopped. Um so, um why is um you have Shmita Kaka's in one part of the Torah and Shmita Sefam in another? Both mitzvahs are important. It both should be in both parts of the Torah. So, again, I'm not the first one to ask this question. It's obvious there's a whole there's a plethora of answers. Maybe the one that's most well known is the Ramban. Interesting, they it it's the Ramban's idea that the last part of the Torah um is mitzvahs that are totally in Eretz Yisrael. And the first part of the Torah are mitzvahs that are, you know, even chutz la'aretz. Because as we approach Eretz Yisrael, which is actually Moshiach coming. Because Shmita Sefam is relevant all over the world. Shmita Kaka's is only Eretz Yisrael. So, suddenly this question becomes even bigger. Maybe that's why it's not So, [snorts] it should be the reverse. So, you should have Shmita Sefam in the first part of the Torah. And then the Ramban says you're approaching Eretz Yisrael, you have mitzvahs that are more Israel-centric. >> the reverse of that. Right, right. So, that just magnifies the question. So, um Menachem and I were learning this week and I shared an idea, not mine. Um I don't have any I I I I never share personal ideas. I just quote sources because that's just a healthy way to live, right? Um that was the um um so, tell me, mitzvahs make sense, right? Mitzvahs are are perfect. They come from Hakadosh Baruch Hu. Is there anything about Shmita Sefam that makes any sense to you? You know, tzedakah is beautiful. You remember Yom Tov we left Mitzrayim. You understand, you know, there are mitzvahs, you know, proper relationships, not to steal, and even kashrus, you know, first of all, first of all there's rationality cash risk also. There's um there's a wonderful Shadal he says it creates social boundaries. When you eat a certain food, you only eat among your own people, creates connections. Ram talks about cleanliness. That's not all it is, but there's timtum al liba, that's a little bit of later. But there's but it's not it doesn't More or less sick reasons. Yeah, or moral, but it doesn't go against logic. Shmita is s'afen. So uh you're you you're you're middle class, right? Um a businessman and I I I and I'm let's say I'm very well to do. I have millions of dollars. But I have an investment opportunity. So I borrow some money from you and I invest it. I'm not going to give anything back to you. I could be 100 times as rich as you. Doesn't make sense. Today what with if you would keep shmita s'afen the whole We discussed it week, right? The whole modern world would collapse. It would totally collapse, right? Right. I mean a little bit I think. So um so what what what's going on here? So I mean what about the mortgage a long time ago? The mortgage. Right. So so so in every shul all the banks every bank you walk into has a heter. The banks have um every bank has a heter that allows them to carry the loan over Otherwise Shmita otherwise I'm talking about the principle that we do now, right? >> Yeah, yeah. You walk into any heter iska and principle all the banks have Yeah. I do principle. We all do principle. Shmita you're my shmita. Shmita So could be people in shul too. It's shmita. Yeah. In every shul all the banks here are here. Your bank is non-Jewish, but there are some Jewish banks. It's actually really important. And I'm not chas v'shalom tell you don't don't not do business with a Jew because of shmita. So God forbid. Right. Right. So but but what is the logic behind it? So [snorts] did we get to discuss it last week? We did. So we discussed it with Menachem. So today people take loans because today there's business. In the ancient world, did people take mortgages? How did you build your house? How was a house built? You would Your neighbors would come together. They would all pick some stones, right? It You didn't hire an electrician, and you didn't hire a plumber, right? There was no plumbing, and there was no electricity. You just put some stones together with your neighbors, right? >> [laughter] >> Right? Um There were no credit cards, right? There was no There were no mortgages. So So, when did people take loans? Who took loans? But they weren't in businesses. What was the business? For food. Really? You grew your food, and if you were in money, then you lived off the See, the only time that people really took loans cuz businesses was a shoemaker just with a hammer, right? So, businesses were Every year you needed grain to survive the year, right? Bread. So, if right, if your crop failed, your grain crop failed, you would borrow We discussed this, but now we're going to see it in time. We're going to tie it in. You would borrow grain. You would use [snorts] part of the grain for bread for the year, and you would part of the grain to plant for the next year, right? And how would you pay back your loan? From the following year's crop, right? How would you pay back your loan on shmita? Because you couldn't plant. So, the only reason shmita suffim canceled loans was because the poor farmer couldn't pay back. It made perfect sense. People didn't borrow for mortgages, and they didn't borrow for for investments. What? So, that's a good question, cuz probably it's a question is a better question than I can answer. I don't have a very good answer. First of all, there's a little bit of a debate with swords. Little bit of a shila. So, if shmita swords. So, if it doesn't apply swords, easy. If it does apply, the center of life is there. It's Israel. That would be And you should know extended the lands nearby because of that. So that would be a But your question is better than my answer. Okay? It's in the sixth year sixth year it says have a double crop. So [snorts] So So again, there you have to know how literally you are, how metaphoric you are, and there that's a whole another discussion that I'd rather not have. Maybe we'll have it later. Uh maybe we'll have the discussion later, okay? Um all right. Okay. But Now the truth is it's absolutely clear in the Come with me see the It's so interesting you should know there's somebody made their way into the well-known. Some just aren't and they're they're sort of not known. It's a prominent a from school and he writes something so simple and he writes what the tells you. I want Could be that those shorts I don't have it. They do have it. I'm not sure. Yeah, so a little bit different. So this is source 15. Source 15 on the new sheet page two. You have it? It's on the old sheet? Okay. And 15 is the development of 13. Of I'm sorry. Of which source? Of nine. But first we'll see nine. We We talk about the stuff on The case makes have at the end of seven years. This is the rule of should might come on though. Anyone want to translate that? Forgive should might means let slip away. It's a very You should know again it's the Torah, right? Forget there when you write an email, right? And it's something you can be very careful with your words, right? The Torah doesn't say It doesn't say it says it's not by accident. Nothing in the Torah is by accident, right? What does mean? Slip. I think slip might be a Let's Let's slip. Maybe you know again translation is hard. But not even as much as this regard let's slip. Let's Okay. Okay. you. Um you know don't nudge him. Don't Yeah, now look at the end. I want you to look at the end. Forgive the loan. Let the loan slip. Forgive the loan or let the loan slip. Keep it current. Let it slip. What does that mean? Keep it current. Let it slip. made the right? You're saying exactly what the says, okay? But again, the Torah is powerful. You sort of know what it is. The says keep it current. Let it slip. 13 claim as much as possible. The made it so therefore the rules apply. The truth is that what do you need the phrase for? You know what it is. Keep it current. Let it slip. And it doesn't say keep it current. Let it slip. Keep it current. Let it slip. So again, the says and the says keep it current. It says keep it current. Let it slip. That called it. But that's just the word. That's one approach, okay? Say okay. Keep it current. Let it slip. The I'm going to tell you what it is. Look at the word. Who wants to read the 15? Who's Keep it current. Who called it? Your brother called it. He was He was the one who called it. And what does he say after that? The ain't lying he doesn't have the mayor fraud how is he going to pay back? What is he saying? He's saying you forgive him because the poor guy doesn't have what to pay you back. The people who borrowed money or people who borrowed grain to plant because last year's crop failed. That's what they did. They didn't have grain to last the winter and they didn't have grain to plant so they borrowed because how would they survive the winter and how would they plant for the next year? But this guy if he's borrowing on the shmita year he needs food but he can't plant. So forgive him because because what what in the world can the guy do? He can't pay you back. There's a sensible reason. Now you tell me what about the mortgage guy and the businessman and the investment banker? There were no mortgage guys and there were no investment bankers and there were no businessmen. It was just this is the this was the normal case. Now the modern world has shifted. 99.9% of people almost who are borrowing money are not borrowing because last year's crop had failed and they're borrowing seed. And so the idea of shmita doesn't resonate so everyone I know who has money outstanding makes a principle because why not? Because the moral imperative isn't there. But according to the kosher shmita doesn't is a development of shmita because because you have shmita that precludes [clears throat] you from planting so the poor guy can't pay you back. So of course you have to be mash up. Now the truth is you have to forgive it forever? So the array of says maybe you don't have to forgive forever. He says shmita shmita doesn't mean forgive. Look at the array of language nearly the shmita the ain't no mashita. >> [snorts and laughter] >> So he says it's not a um let it see what shmita pure shmita let it be let it slide. I don't know how to translate and the truth is, right, translating is right, anyone who speaks another language, what whatever you can't translate. So, it's very hard to translate. He's he's very vague about it because the Gamara doesn't say the guy has to pay back the next year. So, you know, why doesn't the Gamara say this? But, the Arayim sort of walks in the line where he says, there's really still an obligation. He's forgiven for this year. There's no real set due date, but on some level there is there there is an obligation to pay back, although it's not clearly structured. Why am I bringing that to this discussion? Shmita is not something that just took place logically in a vacuum. There's a lot of logic to it. Shmita's Sefarim makes a lot of sense. It It's not a chok. It [laughter] It makes And even chok, you know, the Rambam, very important to know, you know, we raise our kids with idea that chok means a mitzvah you can't understand. The Rambam, who is the great master of logic, the rationalist, says, chok means a mitzvah that's harder to understand. But, according to the Rambam, the whole point of Jewish life is to understand. So, chok does not mean something that doesn't make sense. Harder to make sense out of, but Rambam then says, I'm going to try to explain all chokim as well, and he does. That's his style. That's his approach. Um [snorts] again, different approach. Different approaches. Right, Rambam translates tam tiam Hashem Elokecha doesn't mean trust Hashem. Tam means be smart. Be logical with Hashem. That's the Rambam. Okay, again, other approaches. But, why am I sharing this with you? Once you see this, you see Shmita's Sefarim makes such logical sense. It's about [snorts] rational. It's about the economic. It's about the way farmers lived. It's about the way society functioned. It's about being a decent person. Well, about of course being a decent person. And the truth is the person who is lending the money knows. It's not as if you're lending him 6 years in advance and then she made the strike and you take a mortgage. You lend him that year for that year's crop. Right? In the prior year he probably paid it back. Now again, if he slept and he didn't pay back, it can get complicated. But >> Why can't he just say don't lend him, give him sadaka? Why does it have to say lend him and then figure the law? >> That's a First of all, that's a great question. I would speculate, Al Utzer, I would speculate and I think it's the right answer. The Torah with the Kodesh Baruch Hu's wisdom and kindness is full of situations where people are enforced to take sadaka. Where um Oh. Yeah. Right. So So we'll close with this. It's It's a wonderful question. And the Torah is full of this sadaka. Some people are comfortable with taking sadaka. Some people have a very high for them, right? Um people who um um who came down in the world, who who once were living comfortably and now aren't. So the Torah is full of these hidden sadakas. Like Leket Shichecha uPeah. He doesn't see you. He comes to you. Right? You're supposed to But some people just take it's so hard for them. Like Leket Shichecha uPeah, he can come to your field in the middle of the night. No one knows he's taking. This is sadaka. You know it's sadaka. He knows it's sadaka. But you're not saying it's sadaka. So I I I I think it might I think that may be part of it. It takes away from the busha of the ani. Right. So I'm sharing this to show you that shemitas safchim, which seems so illogical and so so so irrational, so is perfectly sensible, makes economic sense, makes agrarian sense, just makes sense. Well, then let's go back to Shmita. Is it something esoteric and spiritual and roughly and maybe kind of for sure or is it practical? Maybe that too, maybe both. That's the Rambam. What it is I don't know. But I do know, you know, that the best way to live your life is to have lots of I don't knows because the people who say I don't know quite a bit are the people who know more than anyone else. That's something that life has taught me. >> Those who say don't know and those who know don't say. Right. Right. Right, the Rosh Hashanah. Me, Shaindy, Shaindy, Shaindy and you there. Right, that's That's a middle line. It's a middle line that it's worth it's I mean mentioning. Right, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. With with the Shalom Aleichem thank you for joining. It's always