KIDDUSH LeVANAH - FIRST & FINAL OPPORTUNITIES - Shiur by Rabbi Nachum Scheiner

In this week's para par we find the first mitzvah theraes which means that when see the go to bedon they saves it's a mole it's in today's sh in connection to the para like it says on the mind that sometimes it's on the da sometimes it's on the para we're going to speak about kdesh the says that the mitzvah the raon of kdishes is a to the mitzvah of that we do withd besides that it's connected to the para it's also for two reasons First of all, we're going to speak about what's the earliest to dodes and we'll see behav and also hopefully we'll get to in this year as well also what the latest man of keshana is and that was extremely relevant to last month for many of us that really made it by this you know the last minute Friday Right. What's the earliest time that a person can make kesh lavana? You don't want to get into any issues like what we had last month was cloudy for many days. You decided you want to do it the first time possible. When is the earliest time that a person can make keshana? It's known that keshan is a and the beer actually brings in tucked away in kipper just read the lion he says it's better because it's discussion when you should make kvana before yam kipper after yipper but he says he brings a story mago list them you know they they wanted to kill him and he asked let me do one mitzvah and he did kill the and he was let free just one other story that I heard a story with Schwab I heard it from his anle I double checked with it yesterday just to make sure that it's accurate he was coming from aa from Philadelphia when exactly his mind was that's not the discussion in the story but the concept and while driving from Philadelphia back home to Washington Heights he saw the lavana and he asked the driver to please stop he I want to make the kid savana right then and there the driver said don't worry we'll get back to Washington heights there'll be a minion tomorrow said I want to do it right now and then the story what happened is is that further on they were in an accident and nothing happened so that was a kid as Shmira. So you want to do kiddesh lavana right away. What is the earliest time to do keshlavana? If you take a look in the garra, the garan sanhedrin, the garra that speaks about kdeshavana. The garra makes no mention what the earliest time is. The garra speaks about till when could you make keshana which hopefully we'll get to today and we'll speak about till when. But from when the garra does not speak about from when could you make keshana? So there are that say you know why the garra doesn't say from when because you could do it the first second possible you could do it right away haram >> what does that mean right now >> oh very good thank you Michelle for pointing that out left out an important obviously is not what's relevant what's relevant is the mo what they announced by by byes they announce the sometimes the means when when the moon starts to appear that's the when the moon is born that has nothing to do with obviously it's right around it could sometimes be as far as almost two days apart so when we'll get to the latest time how many days it is has nothing to do It's not. It's nothing to do with that. It's days and time from the So very good. When we say from when could you obviously the was this past week matzah shabas at 11:56 p.m. nothing to do with that was Monday. If you could do it right away which would mean you could actually do the kesh of in tavis. Exactly. So very good. Good for pointing it out. That's what comes out clearly. >> How's it on the like >> on on the mitzvah? >> Yeah. >> I'll show you the whole you learn through and we'll see. But I could say over this the words I have it right here like the whatever I say over see clearly inside. He goes through he has written it's invalid when we say the earliest. Yeah, I'm I'm going right back to it. I didn't lose the track this time. But the Rambam I I'm sorry this that was saying you could do it the early as possible like what Michon pointed out from the mid. This is very important to note. The mitsus is you cannot see it the first couple of hours. Rashian Russashana says the first 6 hours. The Rambam holds that you can't see it for the first 18 hours. I have a friend of mine, Rabbi Asher. He went around speaking when the Dafi was learning Russash. He has a whole safer going through with Keshana with the Mitsus. So, I don't know exactly how they argue with the Mitsus. Could you see? Can't you see? But at some point, you can't see it right away. So, the mo was this past month of Shabas, you for sure can't see it the first couple of hours. Let's say 6 to 18 hours. But let's say when it appears 18 hours later, or 6 hours later could you do it already right here it'll be already it'll be Sunday night but let's say if it's two days before and you could see it a day later you could do it a day before so that's some of the which we started saying the is the says clearly that you could do it right Okay says the you didn't do it the first night then the ra says till when you have up until when it means the raom learns other as well the yadama the smug brings one as well also over there is where he argues but he brings one sheet to yes that you could do it right away right away. Even though when you do it right away and the Lavana is so small, you're not there's no question if it's so tiny. There's a dot of a sliver whenever you could see it after 6 to 18 hours. It's so small, not a chance, you're not being you're not enjoying the light. And the Ramos says that you're supposed to be that's why you can't do even if in the middle of the day you see the you can't make you be separate discussion what's the earliest time you could but you have to be so says that's fine why he says this thing is a h but it's notes. You could understand that you needed to be a lawyer like if not you're not because you're enjoying the light. In the olden days, the moon played a big role. You're in the forest, you're in the ocean, you use the moon, but it's not a it's a when you're giving the to actually say to actually say it while you could be in the hand of but you don't but you don't need it. You do not need to be a lawyer and therefore that's the explanation says why you can make the right away the first split second that you could see the moon. >> What can you do about plaque? You come out after you see the moon. >> So that's not for the scope of today's shar about plaque. I love your question. It's almost a regular question that happens about doing it you know doing it especially like times let's say when you do it much time this question comes up but that we'll have to leave on the side. What's the earliest time in the day? Maybe this should have gone into the Shia because the earliest the earliest that's a separate discussion but it has to be in the Hannah this number one that you could do it as early as as early as possible. It's a big mus like I mentioned argues tell me and they say no that says that you're supposed to make when you're one of the means that the mim means that it's lit up that you're which means the is saying it's when you make that you should bera So shita number one is to do it right that you could do it right away is a though we saw many that say yes we don't really we don't pass like that to do it right away though says that if somebody did it right away he was ya >> that we have to wait for wait for clear >> so That's also a good discussion that I actually didn't even look into. It's a good point. How clear does the Levana have to be? Sometimes it's a little hazy. There's a light cloud on top of it. Maybe we'll see if we get to a part two. What to be about it? The same thing also by night. How what's the g of >> you have to be in the hand of how much when you're when you make it, you have lights and everything. You're talking has to be possible to be in. So even when it's a little hazy the moon if you're in the in the ocean and it's pitch black and there's not one light. So when it's hazy these somewhat light that it gives off >> someone saying before right before they can say I think even in the daytime also yeah >> I haven't seen that cheetah that's a very big to me because I got many questions in the last time when we missed when it was at the end with shabas I didn't see that if you could show me that maram that you could do it even today I would love to see it the next shittita which is the shittita in Actually brings this also the brings us three days 3 days from when 3 days from the mo so if the mo was this past month of Shabas 11:56 p.m. 3 days later, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Tuesday night, if you're diving here at Shiners at 11:45, you finished about 11:57 and you come outside, that would be the time exactly 3 days, you can make 3 days later. >> And this is >> where does it come from? >> Where does this one come from? the three days because the shittas that hold that you have to be it's brought says it it's not crystal clear but they they're mash 3 days that's what this amount of three days is that you should be the so once it's three days from the mul the moon already grew to some extent that you could bera [clears throat] >> we're going to get to that in a minute very good point about when the mo you count the mo very good that's very very important that's what's relevant for this week >> we're assuming that the first day you can't see anything for the first 18 hours of this >> correct >> there is no moon at all >> so I don't know that's again a matas question if you're high up and you could you yes see it or we just can't see it over here the mo means that there is a moon so it doesn't mean that you can't see it cuz it's not there it was mo is a moon but you can't see it so 3 days from the mo means It grew to a certain extent that now you could see it already. You have to be an lawyer. If you can be if you don't have to be an lawyer, even if it's very small, you should be able to make >> you could correct the hold that you could do it right away. Many is because you do not need to be in the handra like explains it's a myra. It's a myra but you don't need a lawyer. It's a mitzvah. that that would be like after because it's it's by by by saying by y that that that will come in. >> Ah I hear what you're saying. Good. The reason why at the end if it's the last minute and the only way to do it is by day you could do a by day because you could beas uh we'll see we'll get to the end also these a few different that you could rely on but let's first close up on the earliest we're trying to see first what's the earliest you could so we had to do it right away three days yes That's however there's yet another shita which is familiar and the minute by many that the brings it's the brings her from to wait seven days to wait you don't You have to wait seven days. 7 days in the chasi pano he explains why do you have to wait seven days like you would ask me I mean it's up cababala I don't know cababala but just like you ask three days you have to explain some what's about seven days so the moranu says just like you find in the medish I like this I'm a medish says that why is a bris the eighth day the medish says that a shy of shabas shabas should go over the baby should have a shabas it's a whole hezbar but it's that the bris should be after a shabas passed. The same thing says the pu when it comes that a shaba shall pass. That's why you don't do it before seven days. And that's the says in what does it mean? So we we'll get to it. Not >> it's a good sh What does it mean the po can speak about like you said months that are these maybe not to wait it's a good sh what's he mean in the winter not so then so then it's not it's the winter not let's move a little bit along at about the seven days it's interesting what's do You wait seven days or you don't. There are those that don't wait seven days in the winter. That's clear. There are such there are people like that. If I remember correctly, my grandfather Revenu and Shine was knowing he waited seven days but in the winter he didn't. So I'm not sure if it's always in the winter just sometimes it's real wintry like last month it was raining non-stop. If it's a wintry weather good basketball in the other winter months sometimes >> not to not to do seven >> right away. [clears throat] That's they wait only 3 days but the reason they give also the spring because >> because of the winter the by many I would say by many are to wait seven days but it's not across the board many the actually do not wait seven days they even make it before they don't but this is the to wait seven days by three days we saw clearly that it has to be a slice like we explained if the mulid was m shabas 11:56 this month Tuesday night at 11:56 so when you d me of Tuesday at 9:00 at night 9:45 you can't make kavana yet what's about zion the seven days that you have to wait al kabala do you also need leng this week again we said the moid was 11:56 what's what's this m shabas you're ding m by this man around 6:00 and you want to go and you want to make kavana could you make kavana it's not zan z would be m shabas at 11:56 so it's a this of do you also need a whole list that say you do shiuva brings the bay of the mate others that say that you need and that would mean not doing it yet by some argue and say you don't need by Zion already you don't need pano the elaba the prima you don't need Zion >> rather what do you need >> you just need Zion which would mean matzah shabas It's already seven. It's seven days because the mul was last week Shabas. You have something Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Shabas. So M Shabas, it's Zion. It's not Zion, which means it's not me, but it's Zion. There are those in there are those that say that even if you don't need even if you hold you need Zion Schllayim which by the way Zion Schllayim this is not only for Shabas anytime if the M would be Tuesday night at 11:56 could you do it the next week 11 could you do it Tuesday night when you die of M at 9:00 or you have to wait another day yeah so There are those that say that even if you mbim the myo of doing it shabas is a milo that override Zion and you should do it shabas even though it's not zion but >> why what's special about mat shabas >> oh very good very good what's the mile of matzah shabas there seems to be two mileus it's based off The that we mentioned before brings and wanted like that explain a person is what does it mean either some says that he smelled salmon but they explain a person's in a good spirit person's in a good spirit he had a good shabas he's in a good spirit a mile to do the lush of the cyphraim. You're in a good spirit. That's what you should do in matz shabas. We're not going into yet about pushing it off to matzah shabas. We're talking about the earliest time and you want to do zim and it falls out to be Tuesday at 11:56. Do you have to wait till 11:56 or you don't need? So some say shabas that is these are my love of mas then you don't need but it's the kaf says that this kab that you're supposed to wait seven is even shabas people >> exactly so we'll we'll get to it in a minute so one should not make this shabas after my because it's not Zion slaveim though this is also not the discussion for today's shir you could really do it at 11:56 you'll have the my mat shabas but you're not going to have a minion so that's a sh of minion of of that that's a discussion had but we're talking about this doing it could you do it right away shabas it's a we'll get to it shortly that even that you need you might have like you mentioned about calculating the the the calculating the mo one more point in the earliest month. So he said either you could do right away. We don't pass like that. Three days seems to be the to wait seven days. There's yet one more shila about pushing off the earliest time and that's a discussion that the already says these are mil of doing like we already mentioned before what the mil is a person's the person should do that's the mile is a good spirit says you're only pushing it off only up until this is very important. It doesn't make a difference if you wait Zion or you wait Gimmel. You only do it up is the last day which means if Shabas would be in the then you do it whenever you do it whether Gimmel or Zion but you push off the whatever the earliest time you do you push it off to Shabas. So even though we said the earliest time is right away 3 days 7 days says the Makaba you push it off up until Shabas and the says only if it's within the first 10 days of the month 10 days of the of the mid. Lastly, I guess lastly for now, we're going to have to leave the when the latest time for a shia for itself, but lastly, and this is a gavaldin speaks about it, and this is something that's relevant takabas. Even though we said that if you want to await Zion and Zion Schllayim Zion Schllayim falls out to be when this M Shabas at 11:56 but the question is this time of mid last month of Shabas 11:56 where is that time when we announce 11:56 which by the way that's the time we announce all over the world and And the reason we announced that is because inim that's where the is at that time 1156. And why do we go with cuz that's where the kesh was I mean when they were they when they saw the moon over there not in America. So when we announce anywhere in SH we announced last week the it's based off the timing in your however the moon is the same moon anywhere and everywhere. So the at 11:56 in your that same time is the mid also in America. What I mean that same time at the time in your mid is also the milled here. So what time is the millet in America? Over here Eastern Standard Time in New York 7 hours earlier. It's the same time, but on the clock it's 7 hours earlier, which comes out to be 4:56 p.m. from Shabas afternoon. It's the same time as your we announce, but it's 7 hours earlier on our clock. It's not 11:56 m Shabas Shabas time. It's it's 4:56 p.m. Shabamas afternoon. So it comes out that even if you want to wait Zion Schllayim these are very big to say that you have already Zion Schllayim by the time you walk out Mat Shabas my river it's already Z it's past 4:56 p.m. for those that seem like this >> it's it's a sha I didn't see real clarity it happens to be that Rahen is actually speaking about this [snorts] we didn't go into it at all in this year when the latest time is it would be gmach to go through all theas but whenever the latest time is let's say let's just based off let's just 11:56 6 p.m. was last month of Shabas. Let's for argument sake, let's say the latest time is 14 days later. Actually 15. Let's go with the Maba. 15 days later, which would mean not this M Shabas, but next week Sunday when? 11:56 p.m. So you have Sunday night. It rained, rained, rained. Sunday night, it's going to be a clear night. Beautiful. But if you tell me now that we move back seven hours. So then we lose Sunday night. That's ara at the end. It's ara. So Rabbi Yashvski they go that really you shouldn't do it Sunday night. Raen says you could do it. It was nega sorry it was neg past this past [clears throat] but maybe if we do a part two on when the latest time we're going over there but just to bring out and this I'm going to conclude to bring out that if you go that you can't do next week Sunday night then you also go that you could already do it shabas and by the way it's neg the same thing for three days any of you that don't keep don't go with the sheet of Zlayim and you make right away at the third night and you want to do one tiny I left out that though this that I mentioned about waiting to m Shabas it's important to mention the says you do not wait to shabas why not the is in this week's para mitzvah But anyways, back to Tuesday. You want not Tuesday, the third night, May the was on a shabas like this week. You want to do it Tuesday night, but you're not up at 11:56 p.m. You want to do it Tuesday night right away. If you say that we go 7 hours earlier, then you can do it already. So to conclude of right away we don't pass the three days which most go with and of Zion and it's questionable if you need Zion and even if you do some say you don't need Shabas and we said even if you need it shabas even shabas it's very possible that you have it this shabas that's a good question what to do this shabas I saw brought that the SB did not rely on this and if anybody has any other marus about this this Shil about this month Shabas to please share but it's interesting that could be you already have Zlim have a wonderful Shabas