Eating fleishigs after milchigs - requirements me’dina and accepted Minhag

Tonight's shar is Ben. >> In the previous year we spoke about the area to waiting. When one eats flesh and then one want eats wants to eat milik the of waiting. In today's sheir, we're gonna speak about the other way around. If somebody ate and then he wants to go and eat flesh, what are the sims? The says that after somebody eats, there are three requirements to be able to go and eat flesh. Number one, to make sure that your hands are clean, that there's no milk residue, there's no cheese left on your hand. Obviously, if there's cheese left on your hand, and then you're going to go eat fleshiks. So, even if you take care of everything, there's still cheese that's going to go onto the flesh. So, therefore, one has to make sure that his hands are clean. The second requirement is to make sure to rinse your mouth. Not to rinse it, to clean it by eating something, either eating bread, to eat crackers. And then there's a third requirement of to rinse your mouth with liquid. Make sure your hands are clean. Clean your mouth by with crackers, bread, and with rinsing your mouth. You need both. And we're going to speak about we're going to go through each one of them more eon. But you need both. Well asked. You need both. You need to make sure your hands are clean. You need to clean your mouth two ways. Firstly, by eating something that takes out the cheese and the deer products that are in your mouth. And you also have to rinse your mouth with a fluid with a liquid. The first requirement is to make sure your hands are clean, which the says you just have to check your hands to make sure that there's no de there's no on your hand. It's by night. You have to wash your hands by night that you can't see. It's dark. So you have to wash your hands. The says that one should be and always wash. You should always wash your hands even by day from the from others. And he says you should always wash your hands. Why should you wash your hands? Like the says if you check your hands and you make sure there is no milk on your hands. So what do you so why do you have to wash your hands as well? the terret is because sometimes these milk on it you don't realize shamun these like fat from the cheese if these pieces of cheese. So you look at your hand and you see there's no there's no milk on it and you're good. But sometimes it's not the cheese itself but it's actually the fat of the cheese and you're not going to realize it. Therefore, one should wash. You should always wash your hands. What should come out? No. Unless it's dirty and when you wash your hands, it didn't come off. Then you have to wash off because you have to remove it. What's about this? That the reason why one has to wash their hands is because when you eat the cheese even if there's no pieces of cheese these the shamuness of the cheese what's about if somebody's drinking milk drinking a coffee you drink a coffee and then afterwards you want to go and eat flesh it's very common you're going into supper you're very tired so you want to still the coffee you have the coffee and then you want to go eat supper if the reason why you have to wash your hands is because lava d which means these pieces of cheese or the shamuness of the cheese is on your hand. What should come out is when you drink a coffee, you shouldn't have to you should not have to wash your hands. The says that even if you drink a coffee, you drink a coffee with milk inside or you drink milk, you should still wash your hands. And the reason for that, why do you have to wash your hands? The bad says two reasons. First of all plug which means once one of the requirements before eating flesh after milik is one of them is to rinse to clean your hands. So you can't tell me only in such a type of cheese and not such a type of milk. Therefore always the is when you eat milk you have to after the milk you have to wash your hands even though technically when you're drinking your coffee it's not applicable. You don't have you don't have to you you're still you shouldn't have to wash your hands. still out slave pl you have to wash your hands. Another reason another reason is brought in the bad that just like you always have to wash your hands the shak says is because sometimes these leftover residue these leftover shamuness of the cheese on your hand sometimes it could be on the back under the beside on the side of the cup it shakes a little bit some coffee some milk is on the back of the cup which is tak and therefore that goes on your hand and therefore you don't realize so you should always wash your hands What's about if you eat with a fork? That was that's what you were going to ask. You eat with a fork and when you eat with a fork, you're not touching the food. Does a person have to do this first requirement of making sure you washing your hands? What the sh says. So there's a list of pum that say you do not you do not have to wash your hands. Let's see in a minute for let's see if it's takable. Good point. What you're saying? We'll get right back to one minute. >> You touch the food. >> So, we'll get we'll give you a second to this s this. ones that say that you do not have to is just the pre brings it the you don't have to and also the says fish and meat which is after eating fish you're supposed to do the same thing wash your hands says the over there between fish and meat, you're supposed to wash your hands as well. But if you eat a fish with a fork, you don't have to wash your hands. So we have a list of that say that if you eat with a fork, you do not have to wash your hands. Now says that even with a fork, you do have to wash your hands. And saying a good of you were mentioning, we'll see in a second, why it's a I thought maybe it's not. It's a it's a a bigger but at least the concept is first of all we said before so you have the same plug once you have to wash your hands you have to wash it across the board even if you eat with a fork but the same reason why like we saw before when you're drinking a cup of coffee it could be it spilled out on the side so I guess when you're eating with a fork you're saying maybe even when you eat with a fork sometimes you don't realize that you eat with your hands also or even with eating with a fork. Sometimes a piece gets onto your hand but we have a even though these you're supposed to wash your hands or the says to make sure it's clean the says to wash it but we have a when it comes when you eat with a fork. What were you saying? You're saying that it's even a >> I think it's more likely that your hand gets dirty like he was saying when you eat with a fork >> because sometimes you eat because you end up >> sometimes the coffee doesn't actually get dirty. Sometimes you're eating with aka Ram's bringing up you have to know plug. Obviously you don't say log from one D to the next that doesn't have. So technically over here it has shas. It's not only it's the den that after eating milk to flesh you have to wash your hands or make sure your hands are clean. You're saying that it's not just a den from mil to flesh. He saying from milk from milik in a way that your hands get dirty if you eat it with a fork there's no sh he's saying just like if somebody would eat with IV so you don't have to clean the mouth you don't say because there's no bring it for a marshall. I mean if somebody has to eat with IVs maybe it's a different but the concept here you're saying maybe plug being the say if you eat with a fork you don't have to let's move in now to the next two requirements that the we spoke about the hands have to be clean what's about to rinse out to clean your mouth with food as well as with liquid Good. So you ask before you ask before if you need both. So says both you need both. Does the order make a difference to eat and then to drink or to drink and then to eat? It happens all the time. If when a person is eating milk and then he wants to move on from a kdish. So sometimes you take a drink afterwards and then you wash you have and the question is if you could go right into the fleshik or do you have to do first the eating and then afterwards the sh the says the that's the right on local say I just want to point out and share with that the dark brings those that say that the seder is but you see from there He says why is the and you see the why we need why do you need it? He says when you eat the bread the crackers or whatever you eat as long as it's not the items in the you can't if you eat those those it takes out the cheese and the milk the residue what's left over in your mouth and it more or less takes it out these crumbs floating around. So for that afterwards you have the liquid the mouthwash and it cleans out the remainder crumbs that are left over but that would be a reason why you should need because first you take out the main dairy products that are floating around then you have the liquid to take it out says that the sad is not I got this question today what's about using a toothbrush Which means instead of is obviously to get the milk out of your mouth, could you use a toothbrush? the taz right here when the taz speaks about which we'll get to the goes back into any from the says to clean your teeth the today speak about it if you do if it helps or it doesn't help so what we have so far is there's a dinner of making sure your hands are clean. The sh says you have to actually wash your hands. Then there's a to rinse your mouth with food and with liquid. The same is also by fish and meat. These are which is talking about between eating fish and meat and says we don't eat it together. So over there also is the same to wash your hands. Make sure your hands are clean. We're going to get to that because what you're asking is for how long afterwards which means does a waiting period help? So we have to see let's first see about waiting if there's such a concept in so far these three requirements doesn't say anything about waiting could you do it together and this is very common also let's say you had a let's say a coffee if you need it could be a coffee you don't need but let's say you had a a cheese danish then you're going into your supper and the supper starts with a fruit cup so a fruit cup would be a regular good case of together. Fruit is something that you could use for and then you have the liquid. Could you do it together? Says the it's better not to do it together. The same is also the prim better not to do it together. The is actually if you could do it together. Anyway, >> so here's the thing. Um, Yakoba, >> what? Aka Aka wants to know what am I what are we clearing over here about having a fruit cupp you have to have a different suda so I'll answer you now and we're going to speak about it soon also so you made it a different suda you have your cheese danish you made alia and you want to have a fruit cup and then you want to go to your steak >> okay so that you have the was together with Good interesting point. You're saying if you wash, you have bread and then you're having a fruit cup. But the liquid, if you need liquid separately, you don't have it separately. We're we're going to we're going to get back to it. Good good point. We're going to get back to it from the same. Let's get back to it. Let's stay here. So, so far so far we we covered clearly. Oh, one second. So the says he's just interesting to note that the same we said is also by from you eat the suda from fish to meat and people do there are those that when they make the they put their into the into the schnaps for one reason is because he's a sh about the if it's but they also to have if you just make you only But that would be a case of together. So we have over here so far that when one wants to eat after to make sure your hands are clean. It could be even to wash them. We also see we see you have to do to eat something and to drink something to clean out your mouth. There is no mention in the about waiting. There are more >> there are more brings that some are by as of by flesh to wait the full waiting and that we don't we're not mma like that but by gasha over there says yes to wait again before any deary you don't have to wait you have to make sure your hands are clean however says the Ram when it comes to gavina kosha you have to wait the shak brings the marshal that goes pretty strong against it the waiting even by gavina kasha even mean because the garra says you don't have to wait only by the says yes to be to wait by and that's brings to wait to wait how long do you wait says the taz six hours like we know we call it six-hour cheeses But it's important to know and to understand that the waiting by is a wait as if you wait from flesh to milk. If you wait from flesh to milk five hours or five we mentioned last year 531 the rabbar and you wait different theis they wait three hours whatever you wait from fleshik to that's what you would wait from which we'll see in a minute what gavina kasha is you wait from there going into the other way around going into fleshix what is gavina kasha What is it right here on the says gavina kasha is something that's aged right around six months. He says if it's six months you could assume it could be it which means about six months that's the six months means the cheese was aged for six months and there's a big discussion the pkim what makes it age six months does it have to be in the in the place where they make the cheese. Does it have to be there for six months or once it comes onto your plate that's also if it's six months then you have to already wait six you have to wait whatever the waiting period is. A lot of pkim say that only if it's six months in the place where they make the cheese only over there do you have to wait six hours. Why? Because when it's made over there, it's in a controlled environment and once it goes onto the shelf in the store, they package it in a way that it doesn't change anymore. It doesn't age. Why? Because imagine there's a certain cheese you like. And every time you buy the taste differently because if it was on the shelf in the store for one month, it tastes like this two months. They have to control the taste and therefore when they package it, they they package it in a way that it doesn't age anymore. That's one side. Others say no that lisa for six months that's called gina kasha there are cheese companies that actually put a date on it they put an expiration date six months from when it start from when they made it which means you could see it and that's when it's after that it's considered gina kasha to wait six hours that's the sash the sha holds that you wait six hours on cheeses that were around for six for six months just interesting I heard today somebody told me The benesai says if the cheese h for one month you wait 1 hour two months two hours up to 6 months to 6 hours and that's it after that you don't have to wait longer but that's the six hours you wait six months of aging of the cheese you wait six hours the taz argues and the t says no has nothing to do with how old the cheese is it could be one month it could be 10 months it's not relevant if it's kosha which means it has a very strong taste. If it has a very strong taste like Rabbi Gord when he said from the u a punga taste it has a very strong cheesy taste then you have to wait six hours it doesn't make a difference if the cheese is even one month today they could make cheese very strong cheeses make very quickly they put in enzymes and they control it and they make it very it tastes like very very heavy and very strong says the taz you have to wait six hours. So we have a is the says six months. If it's not six months, it doesn't make a difference. Even if it's strong, you don't have to wait. The the T says the opposite. Strong, you have to wait. Even if it's not six months, and if it's six months, it doesn't make a difference. Even if it's if it's not strong, you don't have to wait. says to be like either or which means whether if it aged for 6 months you should wait 6 hours or 5 hours 5 and a half hours and the same thing is also if it didn't age for 6 months but if it's a very strong cheese like the task calls it mitulas it's wormy these worms in it that's how strong the cheese is you have to wait six hours. There's a big need in the piskin about gavina sahava. You buy tonuva. He lived in ginaut sahava yellow cheese over here. Mozzarella cheese held it on mozzarella cheese. You're supposed to wait six hours. The gay for pizza. That's a a discussion for itself just to bring about I was speaking discussing waiting six hours five hours on on gina kasha the d the koula of the yadhuda which the yadhuda says that if you cook up the cheese then you don't have to wait which would be parmesan cheese you go you have a a soup onion soup and you go a lot of times to a place where they have a shaker of parmesan cheese you pour it into your you pour it into your soup So it gets mixed into the soup says the then it loses its status of caution. You don't have to wait >> it's not like a din bishial. Let's see these three ways how to understand two ways plus even another additional cooler. Some say it has to dissolve into the food which means eggplant parmesan it's actually made from other cheese but on top they also have to they sprinkle on parmesan cheese there it's it's it's ben over there you don't have the cooler only when it's dissolved in the food you mix it in your soup you pour it into your soup and you don't see it it's to give flavor over there you don't have to wait which even if the soup is a cliche if it's designed D, you don't have to wait. Even if you learn the other way around. If it's cooked, if it's soft, you shouldn't have to wait. But it's a good sh if it's a cliche. What would be if you still if you still have to does it is it there are some that even take this another step that even if it gets back hard, you still don't have to wait. Even if it gets back hard, you still don't have to wait. It loses it. one should consult with his what to do about using this cooler. There's another interesting koola that I saw in the madani. I don't remember if you bring it. They bring the the madani says that you could be make Friday afternoon somebody ate you didn't realize he ate a cheese that's a six-hour cheese and then it comes Friday night you're making kdish and you want to eat a suda he says it's a whole but he says again one should ask before relying on it but that's at least he brings such a concept No, I definitely didn't say you have to wait after pizza. But what I did say is that Rebel Yashv held that you have to wait >> but but are cooked but I heard that Rebel Yash used If you're bringing up already the cooked very good point if you're bringing it up. I heard there used that but if somebody also napped which we spoke about in last year waiting from to be shortened the hours when you sleep we're not we don't rely on that wanted to use that we don't rely on that but use that pizza with the yad that it's cooked and if a person naps then you could cut it down to three hours but this I brought up the gah the There's a lot written about it, a lot to speak about it, but we can't just speak about and not mention that these that hold that even pizza that you have to wait. >> We'll we'll speak about it afterwards. There was a shir here Tuesday a legal holiday shir on Mishbat. So many people were asking shilas real complicated shilas and the one that was here dieh gave a sh once. So some shilus he said I'll answer afterwards you know not saying this is a complicated child we'll speak about it afterwards. So we spoke so far that these a to rinse your hands there's a of and by age cheeses you have to wait six hours. So far we haven't seen anything about waiting. What's about waiting? Is there a den to wait between milik and fleshik these by many by some by many that wait from milik to fleshik a full an hour. It's the the schlaw says it the says and the makes a mention of it brings it and the isy actually the goyan brings it over here as well here in the part the zy says that a person that does not wait he's talking about the a person doesn't wait one hour a picture of a shows up on his forehead we mentioned the last time also person that does not wait an hour. So the zoyer says waiting an hour whether from tox or toxik waiting an hour that's the waiting an hour the kiter says you don't have to interesting the says should wait but that's the for those that are no to wait an hour to have that minute the isl there are those many that have the mic to wait a half hour to wait a half hour lisa the half hour doesn't really have a muy it has a very strong mur that's a mimic by a lot of people in cli where does a half hour come from so where from where so I'm going to say over what say how to work out a half hour says he says says it's a minute by a half hour. Where does the minute come from? So he says just like you find up until a h a half hour before. Why? Because within a half hour it's called you're not supposed to eat and together therefore a half hour. These others the Mishkov says that just like you find that you make even over here some wait only three hours and even by fleshik anyways let's say if you have to wait six hours you only wait three hours so by from the zy to wait an hour or not to wait so the is a half hour others say that a half hour the mccur is a half hour it's not really a half hour it's 31 minutes because if you have re of an hour then you have an hour Ready? So that's on a half hour again says you need to rinse your hands clean rinse it by six hour cheeses. The Ramos says to wait however you wait from the to. And then we see over here that the waiting period of an hour and a half hour is a minute. Even if you do wait I'm sorry just another two minutes the there's another these even if you wait this minute of waiting a half hour waiting an hour the primagod says that you don't have to wait even if you wait an hour even if you wait a half hour you could be and you don't have to wait another interesting and this is very important is coffee we saw in the rash. I'm going to just take out the point of it. The rash says a concept that what we had already before we might get to it again. The rash says that liquid is just goes into your mouth and it dissolves right away. He even gets more make. We'll see in other cases. But anyways, waiting just like waiting one would not have to wait. So this is another if we someone had a question before let's say waited a half hour you waited a half hour an hour do you still have to do so the schlaw says over there in the same thing as the primag as well they say that you still have to do the waiting is just a to wait a half hour but you're not you don't become part from the How long? >> What' you say? >> That's a good Shila. We'll discuss afterwards. No, no, there's a discussion about it up until how long? Because it's neglics. Also, I'll show you one more nikuda. We spoke about waiting, not waiting. Waiting is a minute. What you have to do, what's about does it have to be in a different suda? Which means you had a a kiddish this morning and then after the kiddes you want to go ride into your sudo which means do you have to make do you have to bench or we saw another is not even benching the by the and the brings says that one does not have to make you don't have to make it another suda from fleshik to mil you have to make it another suda from milik to fleshik you do not have to make it another suda However, there are one there are those that are already the argues in the this is back in in we saw the theud says that if you take a look in the zy the says just like you have to wait the says also you can't eat it in the same suda and the zy speaking the flesh the which the den is that you're not that you can't eat milk in the sud regardless of the order and therefore you would have to make the so just to sum up what we had over here one has to make sure his hands are clean one has to do sixhour cheeses is require that the says to do and we saw there are waiting as well but waiting as well doesn't make it more and then we saw one last question of requirement from milik to fleshik and that's been if it has to be a different suda we saw it's