Rabbi David Sutton – Beis HaLevi on Anavah

[Music] Welcome to Inside Arts Grow, where the books that we read and the people that write them come to life. It's an honor and a pleasure to welcome Rabbi David Sutton to Arts Grow Studios. Thank you very much. Pleasure to be here. Rabbi Satan Mazle. Thank you. You have finished the Balevi series with the third and vi final volume. Tell us, Rabbi Satan, how does it feel? How does it feel? I'm not just going to tell you. I'm going to demonstrate how it feels. Really? You ready? I'm ready. So, here we go. This is an art scroll first, I think. Amen. So that was on the jacket or the book that was since there is a discussion whether putting out a new safer is worthy or not. So just to cover all bases um making it on the suit but the main intention is on the base Alvi. Fantastic. And the final the third save from the final series is the base aliy on anava on humility. I'm assuming it was a humbling experience. Sure. Um, Rabbi Satan, you know, the word humility, I think from the Torah's perspective and the word humility in the general population may have very different meanings. If I think a good way to jump into the series and talk a little bit about Anova of humility is how would you define practically what it means uh to be humble to have an perspective obviously. So the easiest way about it is I am very smart, um, very kind, I have a lot of insight, but all of those gifts are gifts of God. It's almost like I'm putting on this suit now and I'm all proud of the suit, but I have news for you. I didn't buy the suit and I have to give it back afterwards. I made a shakon on it, but I'm going to It's a matanas. Wow. Past. So, how you know what do you feel like? It's not yours. It's borrowed or it was given to you for a mission. I'm wearing this microphone now. It's not my microphone. It's here to do something with. And like a salant said, I have the mind of a thousand people, but with that comes the responsibility of a thousand people. So humility means not denying your talents but realizing they're not your talents. They're talents that were given to you for your mission. And everyone has their qualities. It's like um the line that the mus says when a bird flies it doesn't sound all proud. That's what you were born for. That's what you're you're here for. So how do we balance that with feelings of self-accomplishment? I mean if everything that we have and everything that we do as all hashem so on some level does that diminish the feelings of pride that we have when we finish a three volume series of the bas's writings so the answer is which means starts off by saying that a person should not be proud of his wealth or his wisdom or his strength. What is he proud of? the fact that he knows me which means ultimately I could switch as well whichever you'd like whatever you're most comfortable everything is in the hands of God but fear of God which means the fact that this safer came out I can't take any pride about because there's so many things that could have gone wrong and do go wrong and ends up happening the only pride I could take is that I made a choice that's what's in my hands that I could be proud of my accomplishments I got up this morning and I chose to get out bed and not to stay in bed. That's something that I'm proud of. I'm proud of my choices, my accomplishments. That's not in my hands. And therefore, it's very I I can't even judge what it took me to get here this morning, what it took you to get here this morning, what it took me to get out of bed, what it took you to get out of bed. Choices, that's only Hashem knows how to judge choices. But accomplishments, I can't be proud of accomplishments. Ultimately, it it happened. I mean, the amount of of necessary for a book to come out is mind-boggling. The amount of things that can go wrong and will go wrong are mindboggling. And if Hashem is not watching over it, it's not going to happen. That's a beautiful way of thinking about it. I I noticed when I was looking through the book that like on the bottom obviously there are tons and tons of insights. And I was thinking to myself, Rabbi Satan, you're a Mayana no, a wellspring that overflows. There's probably thousands of miko, thousands of of sources that are inside of here, but on some level those made it in. And I'm sure some of the things didn't make it to the cutting floor. And that's also des I want I know what I want in the finished product. So, I'm going to put in Rabbi David Sutton's head and heart and maybe the editor's head and heart that these things should make it uh into the book for perpetuity and these things maybe should make it into a different book. So yeah, you put in the effort like you said and you I'm sure you chose many times to work hard on this safer because it's it's it's really a work of art and there's so much scholarship that's inside of it. But at the same time you think I think it was a beautiful way to start. You know we don't think we've ever had this on inside art school with me or Rabbi Hiser that somebody changed jackets and said you actually uh give me a little bit of of uh perspective here because I know I put out a book. I I felt great but I didn't sayu. Maybe on my next bookm um maybe I'll say I don't know maybe I'll buy a suit. Um it's really interesting to note that the flip side and I I saw this in the safer many many times that the flip side of anava is gava or arrogance and that is so despised and so despicable more perhaps than any other mid than any other evil character trait. Why is that? Why is arrogance so repulsive today to the bore? And that's one of the things, you know, the one of the strongest takeaways when I was working on the book is like I never realized like, wow, this is like you didn't realize this this poisonous drug. You thought it was okay. You didn't realize it was, you know, this fentinel mixed into the into the into the drugs. You thought it was just an ambient. You didn't know there was fentinel here. And that's literally what it is. Gava is this poison. It's a fentinel that that's that's going to, you know, bring the greatest down. Venat, you know, then you and and Davidid will walk and he's m and he loses everything. It's it's it's it's a deadly deadly poison. And probably the reason why it's so bad is because like the Ramban says in Higer Ramban that when you're being arrogant talking about jackets, you're taking God's jacket. You're really taking responsibility for what you didn't do. And that's if you look at it when we we see it. The mashal is imagine you have a child whose father's trying to teach him how to play baseball. And he lobbs them easy pitch. Actually, we'll say his uncle is playing game. The father's holding the bat with the kid. His hands on his hands. It comes in. He swings the bat with the kid and he hits it out of the park and it's going, "Wow, you didn't do anything. Your uncle sent you an easy pitch. If your father was holding hand and swung the bat and you're taking credit now for it, that is a little despicable. That's that's a turnoff. I did it and you're taking credit and I could like like like brings down. It's like a it's like it's like it's like idol worship. That's a pretty serious affront. It's amazing. So practically um Rabbi Satan, how do we work on the mida of Anava of having more humility in our life of being less arrogant? Of course, safer is always a good way, but what can we do to to to kind of humble ourselves a little bit and make sure that we're not bitten by the poison drug, right? So, brings a very interesting practical advice. I heard it from him. Could be it's as well. I was learned many years by Avula and he said everything in the Bal Musar is they take matan take something small and infuse whatever you want to do in that small act. It might sound like nothing but again mashal that he used. Um when you take a drug my father's a dermatologist um and a lot of the uh rashes go away with a cream that has cortisone in it which is an anti-inflammatory. The amount of active ingredients it's 0.01%. And yet it works. And I've all of us said the same thing. When we're working on ourselves we're not using a a a sledgehammer. It's something small and consistent and steady. And his his advice for working on humility is the most humbling moment should be when you're praying. That's when you realize I can't do anything. All day you're doing you're supposed to stand there with your feet together. One opinion is to be like angels. Other ones to say is I can't go anywhere. I can't I'm locked. I can't do anything. I need you for my wisdom. I need you for my health. I need you for my parasa. I need you for kibbut gal. I need you for everything and I can't do anything. That's humbling. And we start that off with bowing. And he says at that point when you bow at the beginning of your amid your supposed to be thinking I am standing in front of the all powerful. I can't do anything. And I'm bowing to him. I'm showing that I can't do anything without him. That's a practical way. Prayer, he said, is the way to work on anava. Every time you're praying, you're not just reading. You're realizing, I need you. I can't do it without you. Please help me. I am helpless. And that's the reason why we get all our challenges in life. Uh, I don't know what um business you're in or what um the atmosphere or the people that you live with, but I live in the Syrian community and the tariffs that were being threatened were crushing people's businesses, crushing them. And someone that could have a very successful business suddenly realize, I have a hundred workers, I have goods to produce, I have I can't do anything. I have nothing to do at work. I'm going to there's nothing to do. I can't buy. I can't sell. I can't do anything. And when you get to that moment, you say, "Hashem, I need you. I can't do it. I'm I thought I'm in char. I'm not in charge." Whether it's COVID, whether it's tariffs, whether it's low medical challenge, a family challenge, every challenge comes for one reason, one reason only. For us to learn that lesson that I'm not in charge. And once we learn the lesson and we say, "Hashem, I'm not in charge." That's one of the reasons problems go away. That's remarkable and such a good perspective about the tariffs. I I heard some somebody who said he's he's probably going to have to just shut his entire business down. He has he doesn't even have a model to do business. And imagine going from the his fellow is making a a boatload of money literally and his hands tied behind his back. Imagine if you have real or which is one of the other books that he wrote from the BI that really gives a person something to hold on to. At least as you're saying this, it is just like strikes me about the irony here. you have, you know, the leader of the of of the American people who I don't know if he's such an expert in Anava, but on some level the byproduct of what he's doing is so humbling. It's it's absolutely remarkable and it's fascinating. You know, do you feel that if a person, you know, works on an is it going to make that person less popular amongst other people or maybe people will appreciate says God gives charm to the humble and is is a gift of God. It's a gift of God. Certain people just have the charm and certain people don't. Humility is a spray. It's something that's just naturally charming. And Gava is a turnoff. We know that you people get up there and you smell the arrogance. Don't people don't it's it's really it's it's ironic, but it's it's it's counterproductive. Without using examples of of of people, but well-known people, it the arrogance is like, yeah, I might need the guy. He might be powerful, but it's a turnoff. That's remarkable. You know, maybe it's a it's a good idea to to segue into a little of the two other books that in the series of the of the Basia just for a moment. There's a Bian and there's also the Basia on Abas is correct me right that that's the other one. Um what's the correlation? Is there a is there a a theme a thread between these three topics? On one hand, the other caring about other people and then finally and trust you've already alluded to. How would you put those three together? It's interesting. Um it is it is here somewhere in the book uh in the introduction on the final third one. You know what is the reason the common thread among these three essays. So this I didn't get the introduction. They only sent me the actual book. Okay. So it's I don't know how this XX and XXI and XXI at the beginning of the introduction are are discussing this topic of um why these three. But in short, the common thread is I think the bedrock is humility. Is if a person's humble, they can rely on Hashem or they need to rely on Hashem. If someone relies on Hashem, they're humble. If someone's humble, they love their fellow man. If someone's arrogant, it's all about themselves. So these three traits are really interconnected and interrelated and they feed off of each other. And again to to to hypothesize why the bet decided to write these three mamar he wrote tishuv he wrote a commentary on the tora he wrote dash he wrote for print and I heard this from one of his great-grandchildren that had the kaviat in his possession he wrote it for print uh he has you know backing to that point for some reason it wasn't printed it wasn't like it was private notebook he wanted to print it didn't get printed his son didn't print it his grandchildren didn't print it. His great-grandchildrens in 1985 decided to put out these three final. It's like almost it was like 94 years after he passed something like that that it that it comes out which is very odd. You know, it's not like it's a thousand years ago. You know, they were there. He wrote them for print and for some reason they waited to be released. And there's something about something that's released now. It's new. Even though it would been, oh yeah, it's been around for 100 years. No, it just came out. It's almost like you know Bas talking it's a it's it's a new popular bestseller what happened you don't have that you know just came with a new safer it doesn't happen so Hashem for some reason wanted to save it it should be released now and as Rabakov told me it's released now because obviously we need it and especially when it comes to humility mashiach comes the famous song but it's a it's it's a midrash I love him right Hashem's going to say humble ones, humble ones. That what that's what we're waiting for. We're waiting for us to be humbled. The whole reason we are reliving galut mit because every galut is is is continuation of that. The purpose of galut mit was to humble us. And the rule always is that Hashem puts you in a challenge to bring out what we need from you. And this is a generation of gava. This is a generation of I just want to show you what I have. social media all it's all about gava it's fake too right it's gava is fake right gava one of the things we talk about here is is um the difference between gava and roma is an inherent greatness it's not because I'm greater than you I am what I am I know my self value and selfworth and I walk around with it and that's not a contradiction that's not a anava and roma is the same person could have rus it's not a it's not a sta it's not a contradiction Gava is a artificial substitute for Roma. When you don't have Ramoot, you don't have internal greatness. So therefore, you need all these external demarcations. The term status symbol, this symbolizes my status. What do you mean this watch decides who you are? The car decides who you are. The answer is I need an external demarcation of what my status is. And that's the generation we live in now more than any other generation. And why is that? Because if Hashem wants you to become humble, he puts you in that challenging spot. He's going to send you. It's like if you're trying to teach somebody how to play tennis, I'm not going to send you the balls that that are I want to give train your backhand. I want you to work on something you need. So Hashem sends us if we have to become the generation of humility, he's going to give us the opportunity by putting us in the generation that is so much harder. I once saw I think um Rabonit says who is the greatest nob of of history? Who is the nob in in the Torah? Biblical no was it was it mobu mobu biblical no you know who is the one that should be least no you're in the palace you're being raised it doesn't mean anything to you so hashem set him up that the man that's supposed to be the greatest no is in the most difficult situation not to be and when he overcomes that he becomes the no so our generation that is so inundated with opportunities for gava they're going to become the anavi And therefore it'll be that you know when you have a diamond it's rare and the rarity um creates the value and to have ana these days is rare but it's so precious and it's so valuable. It's interesting that you're saying this because just a little while back I also inter also interviewed the the fellow fellow who translated the Enyakov a monumental work and he was saying that the inyakov was written at a time period where there was going to be a lot of persecution uh dispersion and people didn't have the ability you know to focus and to learn in the level of scholarship that other they did in other generations. So Hashem prepared that the enyako would be put out. All the gimmar of the agaratas which are somewhat on some level a little bit easier to learn they came out literally as that time period was unfolding and and it toggles exactly what you're saying here that hid the ble on for years for a century because he was trickling it out he's releasing it when we need it the most it's very precious it's almost like that video that came out right the picture of the video that video right correct if It's sitting in the archives of whoever the news reporter was and suddenly we find out as if like is coming to life now. There's a I think had an ailment and he needed apple cider was 70 years old and somehow there was there was a guy in the town that had apple cider who was 70 years old and he says blessed is the one that gave his world to guardians that things are guarded and released when you need to be released. remarkable and you know what else I think is really beautiful at the same time just talking about this like I don't think you know there's ever been a period in history where people could understand the difficult parts of the the really difficult parts of the basi his chuvot and you know just the brisker t who's the progenitor of the whole brisker dynasty and people have such a vast appreciation for that nowadays your typical yeshiva bakar is learning the brisker's farm already when they're 13 or 14 years old the briskar um and the basra and I think maybe alongside that appreciation hashem was like mains you also got to understand that the basi wrote three essays about midas about character and now it's such a great time I want to I want to give you a big compliment before that I'm going to hold you you talked about the um how the world the yeshiva world is starving for the basi so just recently on this third volume um three is David of yeshiva barvarski from panovich and moshel hers from wrote a and they used the words over here describing the entire people are thirsty for every drop that comes out of his quil. Amazing. That's a very powerful line. They are. Yeah, they are. They are. That's the uh you know that's it's really I don't want to use this term uh it's marketing means if if David Sutton would have come out a book on on other and and be talking obvious no one would have bought it so I got a brand like Nike it's a brand it's a branding we Syrians you know when you buy a product they don't own the company I have a friend his name is a congregant friend uh Ronnie Ame's he goes around talking about cell phones all over the country and um when they advertise and they say he owns Nike, Reebok, he doesn't own them. He just he has a license and he produces them. He doesn't own them. So the same thing over here. You have to know how to market it. So Basy sells. So it's it's a marketing technique. Basy sells. I've also noticed that there's two different distinct covers that they have when that's also a marketing technique. So this cover is a nice beautiful cover that I that I thought was great. The butt is for some reason I don't know the the idiosyncrasies um but some reason there people are uncomfortable is it's not a safer but if I want to learn in yeshiva I'm I want to take this to yeshiva I'm not learning muser safer seda with a with a picture on the cover I want it to look like a safer so therefore art scroll uh was kind enough to be sensitive to the different feelings of different people and said you know what if you like to have a book, we have a book for you. If you want to have more of a safer look, we have a safer for you. And the slip case is going to have Yes, there is going to be a three volume slip case in the deluxe edition with all three inside of them. Beautiful. Um, this is really the the push for this. The project started, the bas started with dear friend of mine, Mr. Sam Sassin, who's the original um push behind the project. Uh, miraculously, uh, Mr. Muchi Newman heard about it after was in the process literally at the tail end and he got his way in and he continued pushing the AAS and the Anova and he he was the one that said it has to be a safer it has to be a safer and that that was his that was his idea to say you know what there's a msil shashar and there's a kovas and there's a shuva that look like this that art scroll has I think the balei deserves the same you know respect fact it's safer the bases is safer that's beautiful it's amazing the compliment I was going to give you was that I worked in campa as part of the staff for in cats goes for a bunch of years and uh one of our older divisions one of the older oldest bunks in camp um you know after a full day of camp you know there's a lot going on and you're tired and then maybe you have a night activity or you have some chill time or the kids are going to hit the pool or the volleyball and when my is over most of the kids just dash out to go to the canteen or they want to get on the line for the shower Sorry, I don't know if you're if you could identify with this, but it was one bunk and great counselor and every single day I watched in awe as they would sit down while everyone else in the entire camp ran out and they would go through the basi ambit. Didn't just go through it. I feel on some level it went through them and by the end of the summer they made a sem. How many boys? Probably about 25 or 30 boys and they made us see them. And it was such a beautiful moment. It was a moment which they'll probably cherish, you know, and it helped them work on which itself and I don't know if they would have learned it outside of that. If I'm not mistaken, the Ban is like perhaps one of the best selling farms arts girl has. Correct. It's I think so. Yeah, I think so. But it's interesting you said see him. It's just interesting. Last week, Thursday night, I was invited to Anglewood, New Jersey. There's a nice young spartic rabbi, Rabbi Morty Cassus, and he says, "I've been doing bas for for a year with my with my group every Thursday night, and I'd like you to come and read the last pace and make make a semi." And at the seem, they said, "You know what? We want this bass alvi to get out as much as it can." And they committed themselves to Englewood Torah Center under this Rabbi Cassus to dedicate the basen travel edition. So, it's a soft cover, smaller pocket size because there are so many people that tell me, you know what, I'm carrying my I want to just, you know, give me something to slip in. The small one's too small. I just want to like the Zafomi travel series. I want to have my I want my next to my my my Bavi travels. I want my basi as well. So, there's really a a thirst like they said to to be able to, you know, on my trip, I just want to be able to have the basaken with you on the road. Yeah. Yeah. And you think about it, if you you arrive at the airport and there's delays and everything, you need that because people who have betan don't get flustered, right? And those people who struggle with and think that they control their schedule, they get very flustered. So that's a beautiful that's and it's also such a nice sentiment that like you make a you invite the rabbi down to finish it up. And what are the words that we say when we finish any we finish which what does that mean? I'll come back to you. Imagine if they did the same, you know, they basically a second time once they were working on it. I once heard a beautiful means shining means your shining is on me. The learning that I did now makes me shine or pun shines. So when you learn something means we have that the we have that shining. That means when you learn the bas you learn any safer you come out a better person it changes you it's fantrau the mikadam the most humble of all people what does he have and if you want to go even further the famous balaturim that says where'd he get that extra ink from when I when he wrote vayikra the small olive it was supposed to be a big olive he made it smaller so the extra ink so his humility that he made the olive smaller that's what actually created the ink on his face for his face to shine It's a direct direct connection. Remarkable. Rabbi Sman, I'm sure you've had the opportunity. You said Raulba and others that you've met in your life. You you just wrote a whole state commentary on on when I say the word humble. Which people in your in your beautiful illustrious life journey thus far come into your mind. Who are people that exactly personify that? One I mean that strikes me very strongly had a big impression. I remember coming to his house more than one time and he's pouring me a cup of tea like it's a Gadi Israel and he had I heard the story from I don't even I don't remember if I bought him the book or not but he once told me that he was learning he was 22 or 23 he was learning with Kame Ratia who's the Russ they just put out a book on was we literally just did this interview last week was a student of his bash was a student of his ley from Panama that miracle class the wonder class. Soya was learning but he's 70 80 learning father was a rashiva there as well and at the end of their learning he have to end a little early and early he says I have to take care of something says what do you say I have to take care of something he was curious he's walking he's walking he's walking he's following he's walking he walked from his house 20 minutes or half slowly till he gets to Mahuda and he took out of his pocket the top of a of a stove top old stove top that he had to was broken and he said to it took you 20 minutes to walk. You could have given it to me. I would have gone back and forth. Why did Rashe have to do this? He says I should beh with you. You're the Rasha. He's 23y old. I can't I can't I can't beh that's amazing. And and the the greatness came from their humility. It's it's clear. It's clear. There's endless gadolin stories. It's that that is the hallmark that that every gadole you can go on. There's not a gadi that you don't hear. I visited Kameki once when I was a kid. Sudashit that was with friends. I said, "Oh, let's go to Byakov. I lived in Muny." I knock on the door. He answers the door. Says, "Come sit down, have Sudashit with us." I said with my me, my friend in high school or Bakov and his rebbit, you know, go to go to some political figure and try that. The the guard at the door won't let you in. Exactly. This has been remarkable. Um, the power of Anova of One last one last Go ahead. Last word. Rabbi Nusselen Sherman, my father-in-law, he's probably from the humblest people that I know. I agree. And who am I to agree with? I spend time with him by his te he's from the most humble people I know. And I think that's part of Art Scrolls success is that humility that that transcended through his his being the the the uh the partner with Rabbi Mayawitz. that that driving force of Rabbi Zladawitz and and my father together how they really humbly took on that mission of of spreading to Kalisra and the success was legendary. It's un supernatural. Yes, Rabbi Sutton, it's been a and a pleasure to talk to you. It's been humbling, too. And I highly recommend that if you're watching this video, you go out and you purchase the safer, you put purchase the book, you p purchase the travel edition, you learn it. It'll give you a lot of pause and we all strive for greatness. You'll come out of this safer in a much greater place than you were before. Thank you for your time. Thank you. [Music]