Inside ArtScroll - Season 4 Episode 12: Rabbi Shmuel Bloom - On the Shoulders of Giants

[Music] Hello everyone and welcome back to Inside Art Scroll where the books you read and the people who write them come to life. Today we are privileged to be joined by Rabbi Schmo Blum, former longtime executive vice president of Agoda Israel of America, a longtime Askin uh Dafi Magachir. You now live in Eritis Harov. So it's a privilege to have you here in Art Scroll here in the United States and thank you for taking some time out of your schedule. It's my pleasure to spend some time with you. Thank you. Now, two years ago, you published a book with Art Scroll called On the Shoulders of Giants. I must tell you, it's one of my favorites, the story full of fascinating stories. Whoever whoever hasn't read it yet should take the time to get the book and read it because it's really like some people have said, including Rabbi Zevle, a letter that I saw he wrote to you where he called it a safer. It really is a safer it's a safer of insight and muser and and and inspiring stories. So it's really a privilege to go through when it came out and again uh more recently. I want to start with your time in a guda and not to make anyone uncomfortable but there are people even today who are unsure of what auda does. Does that bother you? Did it bother you when you worked for the ag and and what can be done to change that perception? It bothered us. No question about it. uh it was uh canar we do so much in so many different areas but when an organization is single focused it's easy to say what an organization is when a gurus soil is created auro was created in in the early 1900s to solve the problems of kios problems change situations change and there are many many different areas that you have to be working in so it's hard to pinpoint and say you know this is what agricultural is doing. But I think that one of the main purposes and goals and of and things that agricultural does it gets people together to sit and discuss what are the issues before Claudius and what are some of the things that we can do about and develop solutions. So how would you define that good's mission? Is it to solve the problems of Claudius? Is that what it is? Let's go back to the history. Why was that started? On the contrary, the people didn't believe that there should be an international organization. Too many problems with it. Um the reason it was started was because in the early 1900s Clius was losing we were losing the youth lost the daughters for sure. There were no schooling for them. He's lost the boys. They were going away. Um Panovich said that in that the learning in Panovich was better than the learning in in Punovich narrative saw was better because in Punovich in Europe they were sitting alone by the Gimar but underneath it they had a book and they wanted they saw they thought there was something there is the they were losing the youth. they were going away and they the the those who conceived it said if we take the organizational skills of the German jury and we take the Torah leadership and ardition of Litisher jury, the Galileasuro and you take the warmth ofus and Polish jewelry and the rabbitic leadership of of of Hungarian jury and put them together in one room and say how do we solve this problem? How do we go about solving this problem? And they got them together and first in in Bat Hamburg and then so later ultimately the the first day in 1923 the famous picture that you see the sky coming what he was coming to he was coming to that meeting where everybody got together in 1923 to see how can we solve this problem and maybe by working together we could solve the problem. So that that was a problem years ago of losing youth. Today the problems are different. So would you say that our good has evolved as time has gone on? The mission may have stayed the same but the execution has changed. Every 10 years has been different. Every 10 years during my experience in the years that I was there in in in a cisoral the 1950s was one agura. The 1960s was another 1970s beginning of Jewish observer and social service programs and so on. 1980s with Hatsah with Iran with Russia is the 1990s always the issue of facing the government and and and the issues different issues they came every year a world evolves into a different type of organization serving the needs of the community of the day so today what would you say that mission or or primary responsibility is today I know you're not there right right now I'm right right now I'm obviously I think that Um there was one year and I go to the convention where I I I live with the Messma in Bahukasai. The Messma talks about the cycle of Jewish history. how we come to a country and there's nothing there and we have to build and you build an infrastructure and you get and you have a ru and you have to build yeshivas and you have to build terror and you have to build shels and so on and mikvah and you build it up and the children continue it and it gets larger and larger and as it goes and finally it gets you reach a point after a hundred years where everything is done and the youth have to say a child has to feel he's doing more than his father did. So what is there to do if there's nothing to do in Yiddisheskite? They begin to go outside and they're 100 years in the country. They're not green anymore. They know the language. They know the culture and they begin to go into the general culture. They begin to fall out and start children at risk and char start other other problems that develop when you there's when there's nothing to build on it and and and you have to do something. So we have to find new challenges that the youth can do within terror and within Yiddish. And I think that that's a major a major. So what we hear we hear with it's been said quite often about Israel and rebel that Doda is focused on the clal but also focused on the y. Again, not to belabor the point, but think about the bread winner wherever he lives in Lakewood, Montreal, Burough Park, five towns, wherever he is, struggling to make ends meet, just trying to get through his day, through his week, through his year, raise his family. He doesn't have the time or money to go to conventions and he doesn't feel a connection to a deer and he doesn't see in a tangible way what a de is doing for him. Is that a problem? Is that a disconnect? when when someone who doesn't know more thinks that all the does is make conventions and the cas what what would your you know here's a platform to tell them no this is really what a is doing as I understand it um both in education both in representing the government you see that good does those things that individual groups can't do when you have to be able to get together when nobody was able to talk to a policeman or to the the the local assemblymen and Rabbi Sher was able to speak to a congressman. That was a big thing. But as the communities grew, each community developed their own as people who were able to do that. So that can't be the only thing that they're doing. They have to do things where with where the the the SE were working together are the things the solutions are the areas that they're working on. Um but they do as you say for Ebisol also whether it's a special education whether it's a there is and benos re reorganizing now and restructuring many many things that they're doing the the Torah projects there was a time dyomi is not just the sem every seven years the the impetus of the sem the purpose of the sem is the more people should learn dyomi I don't go any place in the world we don't see a dyish now um the the the art scroll is is definitely has has been a great help to that he says but it's It's it's it's a matter of pushing it and arguing and see you mim and so on everybody oh you haven't learned you're not learning dy we just spoke to somebody he says somebody asked say dafomi on chabas he said on shabas now he said speak to every day with zoom with the ability to to be able you can say dafomi all the time there was a speaking of dafomi there's a fascinating story about your entry into the world of dafomi as a magucher you want to share that story in 1975 I was the Uh uh 1975 I came to work in Nagura Cisuro. January 20th, 1975. I remember I left January 20th, the same day that Obama became president. I left. Uh time to go to changing of the guards. Changing the guards. Uh Rabbi Sher called me in in February or March of 1975 and in his office was Rabbi Bhad and Rabbi Bessa and they were sitting discussing the CMAS. There was a seventh CMAS. The previous CMAS they had about 300 people in Byakov and Boro Park and they wanted to do something a little bit more a little more exciting get more people to find out about Dy. The time before that it was during a sir convention and Rabar Cutler said you know we should wash for the suda today because since the day of the sash nobody else knew right hardly anybody knew you mentioned the book. Yeah. Yeah. He says and now comes uh so they want to take Manhattan center thousand people and make a presentation. They asked me if I would help. I was working in Project Hope at the time and they asked if I would volunteer to tell the time. Of course, I said yes. And I they had flyers and I was going on the subway and I saw I' been seeing Cone on the subway and I said to him, "Here is a flyer. We're having a see him in Manhattan Center. We try to get some people." I was trying to go around trying to find some people to come to the see him. Um fine. He took the paper. So a few days later I get a call from Rabbi Kron and he said you know when you gave me that fly you probably didn't only mean that I should come to the scene you probably mean that we should have started a dy. So in the shul that he was davening in uh in Rabbi Bloomran's shul we're starting a dy mishia and we want to have seven people each person to say one day to say the daf one day and I said I said look I just started a new job early in the morning to late at night I shabas will you do it shabas I said okay I'll say d on shabas I hung up the phone and I started thinking in rabbi bloomrant shul there's going to be a dyish a goodlur of long island far didn't have a dy Mishia. It's going to be embarrassing. The agures doesn't have it. So I went to somebody and I asked him if he would say the dy and he said um he said okay uh if you get some people to join I went around I got three people to join. Three people said that they would come and and and join the dyish. The night before I realized I forgot to tell the person that I got the gay. So I better look up it myself and prepare and uh say the dafi that the first day. So I said I think it was Wednesday, Thursday, Friday till Shabas and Shabas I went to the person I got you sure there's the people are coming and so on they said yeah you started already continue 35 years later and you're still giving I was I was I was still giving it for 30 35 years a the the I tried to get somebody else to say this year and the sham helped we were able to the time finding the time to say but it changes your life you become a different person thean just mentions the there's He started saying when he goes on a plane trip when he goes on everything the whole day revolves around around and you've been I overheard in a conversation you were having with Rabbi Brander before that you was recently to finish as well. Yeah. So that also but there's an interesting story there when you went to and you asked him what was I'll I'll tell the interesting story first with with with mayor was um I was at Abrami Bamin who works here in art school was sons bame mitzvah and I came early and mayor came early and the two of us were sitting we're having a discussion and the uh I said mayor you're finishing up a now uh shremendous thing what are you going to do next and he said well thinking of different things we're doing Ramban we're doing maybe some other things I said to him you know anything else that you do after Bavi after what art school did for for trans for the elucidation of Bavi anything else is downhill the one thing that you can do is I set a Dy Mishia in Bavi before arts girl so it can be done but your shami I couldn't open I wouldn't know how to if you do your shi He says, "And do the elucidation of your sheli, then you've done something maybe even bigger than the bi." The next day he was on a plane teris. He told me afterwards the next day he got a plane on teris. He went to revelos and he asked revelos whether he should do your shami and told him yes and you have it in your shelies that somebody came over to him and said but uh you know it's very difficult to do your shami and I I can explain why but that that's not not for now. He says it's very difficult the gear so there's no rashy. It's a very complicated uh elucidation much more difficult than a bi and revels they have doing and they did like everything else at art schools a magnificent job is and they did I felt when they oh there's another part to that I had told mayor at that time I was executive vice president for the agura I told mayor if he does you shall me I know financially it's not going to be like the bali so what I'll do I'll help the same way that the agura does the sumim and encouraging people learn I'll get the audi and therefore you know hopefully more people you know will also make it more economically feasible so uh he said okay I went to the meta meeting and I come to the meta meeting and I make this presentation art school is now doing a shelme by then I was like the fifth time already gone through through through bavi I want looking for new challenges. There are people who come to challenges told no under no circumstances keep it with only do and the one who was strongest in that was he says strong he says because what was the reason why was that he says the your your learning has to be the babi that's the eco lia today that's what you have to do okay so I went back to mayor. I told mayor I'm sorry I can't you know produce uh but uh mayor says I'm doing it anyway right you've made it decision your shami comes out I open up the sheli the first volume I see a big house scumbar I said what's going on over here right so I take it up and I learned it and it's a leanwood rabbar over there explains the difference between babi and he says babi is bi is be of darkness to understand Bavi in Boville. It was hard and understanding was hard and you had to work hard. You had to be a meus. You had to work hard in order to be able to understand it. Is clear the once you get through the the difficult gers and so on then the the language and the gersoi is question answer question answer. You don't have a whole sug because they had clarity. Mhm. Our learning has to be with amus. That's what she was saying. Our learning has to be with bavi which is amus. We have the shami also. He says actually he says there's no bab in. And he has an interesting reason why. He says because would have done it was not your shal in it's lean lassos. And today when we're back in and we have a we have a he says and and we have the and we have the pushes people to to very much to to learn the he says it comes alive and and and the arts girl you show me as I say the masterful job that they that they did on that was able to to be to to make a So you you had a in that what happened when you went to and you wanted to continue learning but you were being pulled in different directions. I I had made a goal uh to in a certain period of time to finish Bavi or Shalomi, Mr. brewer and so on to I was bringing I had haknas for to to to celebrate my 80th birthday and I was going to bring the whole family together and so on I made it and then a few months before then about a half a year before then I got a call from reader who was running the dafomi and he asked me to come to help um help in the organization of of of the sem and I I was afraid if I do that I wouldn't be able to reach my goals. So I went to and he asked him which one should I do. So looked up to me and says do both of them. So I fell behind I fell behind. Actually people want to blame co on me because I fell behind in the in my goals and January I went back there after the seum and I sat down and co came and I was in quarantine for months. Had nothing to do but sit and learn. I was able to finish both. Wow. Now, a hot button issue today. I'm going to change course a little is come comes when it comes to elections voting for liberals. Uh in many from communities, this push back, you know, the the organizations, the establishment might back a certain candidate, a Democrat whose hashkoffs are not in in line with ours. they might espouse ideals and views that are diametrically opposed to Ashkava. Uh on the other hand, there are certain benefits and it seems to be a pull and a push. And I read in your book where you talk about when the Yaga invited Senator Kennedy, I believe it was, who was honored at an Auda dinner and Rabbi Sher got a phone call from Arv after the dinner. How do you bring a liberal senator to be honored and in a good dinner when we don't see eye to eye on many issues? I think you speak about congressman Solars as well. We're talking about leftists. Um so what's your response to the man on the street the from man on the street who wants to know how an agodo or some other communal organization could back people whose values don't align with ours. It's not a new mucus. It's not a new issue as as I explained in in uh in the book and some of the other issues. A lot of these issues issues are things which come up in different circumstances from generation to generation. And there's a miser there was a mahlo there is a was a mahlous in my time between the members of the terra for the most part I think who were pretty much in unison to that and the spokesman probably of those on the other side was Rabbd Miller and later the ro um uh in terms of how we deal with with politicians there is no politician that we agree with completely um the the uh we don't have initural you have audi representatives who listen to yurl you don't have such a a mitsus in in the United States um so for the most part so you have to decide on a politician on what basis are you going to vote for him or against it the members of the matera by the way they did make an adjustment in terms of honoring a dinner they what they what they said at the end was that although We will invite them to a dinner and speak at the dinner but they did not but not to not to honor them. We didn't we didn't we stopped at that time we stopped giving them but um why are we voting voting by wrote letters good citizens we have to vote but we have to vote for people who are going to help our community that's that's our interest in it do you take a balance of everything that a person does and say on the basis of all the things that the person does um he's bad in 30 areas in 30% and it's good in 70%. The other one is is is 50/50 or 6040. He is so you you take a balance of the person and you decide he is we're still we have to get things done for the community. It's one of the things that we do. He says we have to take a balance and try to see even if a candidate is say proabortion or has a stance on marriage that makes us very uncomfortable even so that balances it out. Vikda Miller was the other side of of of the debate and Vikd of Ashkafa and he says moral issues are the most important things is how a person how a person stands on morality is the most important thing. Was he a dash in he was pretty much a dash in at that time? At that time he was Would you say that it's changed now with the with the progression with the passage of time things have gotten even worse in terms of the left moving even more to the left but still the question is why we vote and who we vote for. How do we make the decision in how do we in somebody said very very cute. He says We have right to vote but not to choose is init and terra decides vote because you're voting for front parties and you know that this is the what you even if they're in the minority but you know that these are your representatives and these are the people that you have to vote for you have no choice well I think this one's better that one's better he says you have to vote there in America it's not the case in America the Israel would call Rabbi Sher and ask him who should I vote for right you say which politician is better? Which one is more important for the community? Which ones helps gives money for the community? It's it's an issue is the yeshivas need money. The Shivas get hundreds of millions of dollars today from from from yeshivas. And there are politicians who support that and that's important to the community. There are other so there there there's a myriad of issues that have to be taken into consideration and then you have to take the balance of everything together and say which one and sometimes more often than not we have people on both sides. We want people to be influential in the Democratic party. We want people to be influential in the Republican party. How how about an issue of Akar Sat where let's say one candidate has been helpful in the past but the other candidate today reflects our values really is a better candidate. Is it is is there a precedent for voting for someone just out of hakarat? Hakkarat is a very very big principle in in in Yiddesh and Galuro. Um I'm trying to think of over the years that you have such over the years over the years which you see they illogical things right the illogical things but if if somebody did a forak of kameki 30 years ago he he he would you know he he would do he he would illogically support him you know I'm not talking about a politician I'm the on a personal and and even when it comes to community levels you know sometimes they can't but he's they wouldn't sometimes would walk out of recuse themselves from has to do with somebody because because they felt that they had a so that's something again this is something that has to be weighed um by the leadership and um will there be people who following it's easier especially for young people to follow ribba victim style that's it it's morality have to do it on the other hand people have responsibility for the community have to take every everything into consideration now you were speaking about the matas you were za over the to sit in many many of myets meeting with gadm hash out issues and we hear the term used so I hope you don't mind if I ask you what might be an elementary question what is das tyra okay that's a very good question and and I'll add to it what is dasyra how does someone get dasyra okay so um the uh actually one of the things that one of the reasons that that uh that I wanted to write The book was as Rabbi left says that basically the book is a primmer on duster. Um I have the story with Rorskin who uh who was a I think I wrote it in the book who had the was an issue in Project Cope. We had been growing. We got new contracts. We were adding staff. We kept on getting staff and then there were cutbacks and we had to have staff had to cut back and so we had uh who goes out first? Who do we f last in first first last in first out like you do in the unions do you take who's most valuable do you take the person who's most needy and we wanted to ask Guris asked all our shist terror we wanted to ask the terror and it wasn't practical we weren't able to get the terror together sok was in our office at one point was another time the blue is they were there separately so we asked them separately sat down and said look you're asking me a question I'll tell you my opinion but if you want to know if this is a decision of me or the decision of dast it's not I come into meetings the terra and we have a kabur and we sit together and we try to understand what the right way is and very often I'll change my mind from from the discussion so from that there's a certain that comes from that comes out to to to a dash but what is dashamalh says that when we davin we talk when we learn talks to us there are people who are learning bar's terror their whole lives day in and day out has been talking to them and when a situation is developed and something develops you have to say what does kadesh baru want what's the interest of keshu and sometimes it's so different from what the layman He says sometimes you look at it physically and analytically and and you say you know but if you look at it the way looks at it and tries to judge the decision based on that um so that's terror comes from comes from ter but at what at what age at what stage and who makes that determination so agura cisurl when they found when they founded aura they were very worried were starting at they were worried that the secretary in the office is going to make decisions for the organization. So they said that there has to be and there was a question what they should be called the GD signal a committee of gdelm who make the decisions for the organization. So it doesn't mean they're making decisions for Kalisuro. They're making the decisions for agures. Aguris doesn't move in any major way without having direction what what is the met that isn't all the non and the sometimes think differently. He says what happens when you have divergent views of dyra. So two people who have dyra is it both dyra and and how does the layman on the street know who to listen to? So, so the the big benefit to a surro is that we have a mu people who appoint who people who choose themselves. It's a self-perpetuating body. In other words, I don't appoint the decides who they want to take. And it's a kabur of similar thinking who decided. Now, if somebody says to me, I'm a talmid of rebell and by the way alive rebiller. People say, well, rebill said this. Rebill is not alive today. If there's a rov that you have today, an individual if you ask me in an organization has an individual if he wants to know he's doing the right thing he should choose his god he should choose his ro and he said I'm going to follow him right left or in between there is now raman told me that you can have der even if you're not a god he says the there are people who live who live so much in terror and so much involved in terror that they get the hashkov that their thinking becomes terror addictive. You think in terms of father he was talking about you're talking about he happened to be talking about Rabbi Newberger he was talking about Rabber his brother-in-law right he says he thinks he thinks terodic I would say in large measure Rabbi Sher was like that Rabbi Sher had enough hashkaf and learning from from from the now he would walk into a meeting and think that the decision should be one way and the would say that it' be different tells a story over and of a specific case and they came out and they said exactly the opposite and he was so happy because that's why I'm not going to sur have the daily but I think an individual has to take his ro group on them and say these are the people I want to follow this there if disagree on things on on doesn't mean he's right that he's wrong this is arashkov this is the way we act and the satarba and rabbar both went during the elections in ter and each one made speeches against one duster and the other one's not. No. Who who was your mak? We talk about having a Roshiva who you you went to in terms of um in in in my asis in the years of as the years that I that after Rabbi Sher Peter went I mean I had the meta but probably lean butar li was was later I'm saying that in the 10 the years that that I was active and so on at that time but you were active from 1975 raar was was really an unknown in the last after rabbis when was alive. There still was Rashad. There's still Rabbi Yakov. There was Rab Rudman was my Rashiva, right? You know, so you learned in I learned in so you learned by Rav Kleski. I learned by Kleski. He was my first rebi when I went to to to Nurl and then I became and you were close to David Krunglas. Rabbi Krungas was was really the one who was Mashi on me. The one who changed the direction of my life in my high school yearbook. I said I'm going to be a mathematician. Is that right? Yeah. And I went in there for one year. I ended up staying there for 12. Wow. and and um and and Ribbid is really kungas was the one who shaped my life and whose hashkafa I took and whose direction uh I try to follow. Wow. In the book you discuss a controversy and apparently it's not a new controversy over RNA versus Gashmir with a good convention was once uh held at the Pioneer Country Club and there was some push back that it was too lavish of a venue. No, there was there was worse. It was worse. Okay. There was worse. There was mixed swimming but not the week of the not the week of the agura convention. Uhhuh. But there was mixed swimming during the year and how can you take people to a hotel and they go well the aguri convention is therefore I can go there and there was mix swimming and it was presented to Kutler and Rabbar Kua says it's very important for Claur and for Jews in America that there should be a strong aura and they have to go to the nicest place available. So people should want to come there and he said they come. Um I later it happened in the time of leav also with the time of leav and that's what I I speak about in the book um where he said the um the when you come to the b says why can a balm why can a balm not be a why can't you do that he has a broken arm so what's so terrible he says no when you come to the b mikdash everything has to be perfect he says you have to see everything in perfection so if somebody's not perfect even though It's it's a tar for him. Unfortunately, he can't participate. But that has to be the pund is a has to be in in in a nice place where people should want to go. The proliferation of gashmies that we have today and there is um I was just having a discussion about this and we've also seen a proliferation in the giving of stuck. It seems to go hand in hand. H how would you address that? What would the the message be to young people who are now being mats maybe for the first time and they have a lot of money and they're spending it? Yeah, I I know there's even in my time there was somebody who's um had a lot of money, inherited a lot of money and he um he said he lives a fairly lavish life. He says, "I know it's not good for my children, but it helps me in my stalker." So, meaning meaning that because he spends lavishly, he's able to give more. He feels he feels forgiven. So I hear that on the other hand rebellia spoken and good convention rebellious spoken in a good convention and he said in what's see this is a little bit der thinking what why was lakewood so much why wasar little group in in the of in first place coming lakewood and so on and it changed in America he says in what were they able to do it and rebellia felt I Ripchnare said it at a at a Lakewood dinner. He quoted the the the right theas that says if 10 Chicago was terrible he ran out of Chicago on Shabas he had to leave there was but he said that if 10 people would sit and learn terishmo could change the city could turn around and on that basis he said rebar built it but the success that lakewood had all over America rebellious said it was because of the dhus because of the it's one person told me that he he was there in the early years he was a young fellow in the early years in Lakewood and After breakfast they had the cup he wanted to take a second cup of milk and somebody slapped his hand they couldn't afford it is that he because of that they learned terror with that dus is that gave them tremendous success he started to say but he held back you know where is it going to come from in the future right based on on on what's going so he held back because you don't say that you have to be careful you know with what we say and he was he was careful what he said but there was a meeting in in uh in Ninskarb's house with some of the members of metal leater and with leeman when was here and they asked them different questions. We had a group of people who were asking questions in front of the metal terrain and one of the questions they asked was about the tuition problem of tuition high tuitions and Rabar le said maybe the Rabam should take a cut in salary. So, so one of the members says, you know, we're taking it back a little bit and Ripshimal Kamitki saved the day. He says they already took the cut in salary. This is, you know, this is it. They're already taking a a low salary. That can't be the solution. Sir B says he says I have a a um a mhm person does things without the the the so on he has more so that's a message on the other hand they say it's it's hard it's hard to criticize they say they're doing good things um and but there is a huge problem today outside of the gashmas of just people making ends meet. There's a huge panosa crisis that's not spoken about enough and not addressed. I have my own theory about it that the people the movers and shakers very often are not impacted by the parnosa crisis as much as the people in the bottom rung. So it just doesn't get addressed enough. But is is there something in your eyes having spent four decades in asanas? What more could be done? Let's say you mentioned tuition. Is tuition vouchers ana? Is there something that could be done more than is being done already where a from family can't live on 75 $100,000 anymore? Maybe at one time that was considered uh something significant. Nowadays they can't. They uh they tell an old story goes back to the time of Bengurian and Eisenhower. Um Bengurian asked Eisenhower what does the average American make a month? He says about $500 a month. And what does it cost to live? He says about $400 a month. He says, "What do they do with the extra $100?" He says, "We don't ask any questions. Whatever they want, they can do it." Okay. He as an area spend and what does the average Israeli make? He says, "How much the average make?" He says, "400 shekel a month." And how much does it cost? About 500 shekel a month. He says, "So he's making we don't ask any questions." Everybody in the world is kilo. They're always in the community. I think I think the poverty is not as serious. I'm not maybe I'm not here. I don't think it's as serious also always wants that there should be aim that we should have the to be able to support them as says that it was the part of the and that's each person has their own each person has their own masle in each person has their own job to do some people's job is is to do do I find we did over the years with job training and so on project hope PCS and so on the things that we did for to train people to try to get people out of poverty. And uh uh Cleveland is growing because of vouchers. Um in even in my time when affordable affordable housing affordable housing was I left 12 12 years ago um I left the 12 13 years ago having vouchers um and it was was a dream and now in many many states throughout the country they're able to have it. So so that's certainly helpful. What would you say has been your biggest accomplishment personally in your years of Asonus? Number one, and a follow-up question to that, what what has been the best advice you've ever been given? The um I I I divide that into two parts. Um the the first question I everybody has a role in life. Um David taught us and and that say that and what is the masle? Everybody has a job in life. Every nish, every ta is brought before he's born and is asked what is this person's job in life. The malik and based on what his job is tapid in life based on tapid the the role that he has does he have to be rich? Does he have to be poor? Does he have to be smart? Does he have to be simple? The is the that does he have to be strong? Does he have to be weak? Um so you're given a tapkin in life till at least the the the time of material of Rabbi Sherah. I felt that my tapkin in life was to assist Rabbi Sherah. Rabbi Sher was a special gift that gave Kalasur and he had special talents, special abilities and he made a major major impact on on on on world jewelry and Kalius jewelry and world jewelry after after the second world and rebuilding. I could protape certain individuals to help rebuild or to build America after the second world war after the hurban in Europe and I was in a position where I was able to make him effective by taking a lot of by being in effect I was the COO the operating officer of Aguris and seeing that everything going so so that he can he can be able to to to accomplish his tkit after Rabbi Sheres Peter when I had the the role as the the CEO the of of Agurisl I felt there were two things that I wanted to accomplish and I think that the bash was to accomplish them. One of them Rabbi Sher admitted to the criticism that a good sister was a New York organization basically a New York based organization. Its leadership was New York. Its functions were for New York. And he dreamed about becoming a national organization but in his lifetime it really didn't become. And after this Petira, I set as a goal to make it a national organization with offices all over the country and and having an impact on on government relations and and the things that are going on in communities without and I think that that was probably my biggest success during that year. And aside success um when the inifat started the from community wanted to do something and uh the more modern group were going to delegations and showing the flags and the didn't didn't hold that if it's a mak you don't put yourself into somebody came up with idea you know maybe we should learn terra the maybe we should have a yakala and sitting and learn terra magnumat saves. So it was discussed the government they wanted to know what Raaran le said and Rabar le we asked Rabar le Rabar le said very true termats but do it in America why do you have to come to but I explained that these are businessmen other asim they're not going to give up their jobs if they're in America if they come to they'll sit and learn there and they'll learn to be a Swiss and daily sur agreed to it I I announced it at a good convention and we started the first yakala of American Jews coming to Erit Isurel what happened was uh and and uh it's interesting in terms of the development of it um I said to Lee uh you know these after all these avulans so let them learn first say there are maybe something that might say in the afternoon when I take them out to meas see different stalkers different things that are going on he says no no no they're coming to especially Tom in I said learn three star I said okay we'll find a basis where they can go to what base of measure she says in the hotel I don't want them going out of the hotel there was concern of the the safety he learned in the hotel he says but we want to come to visit you the neighbor said no I'll come to you and he came and the grebi came over the years what the sur one came and it started with 40 people and now close to 500 people because the other benefit was that the midir that you have initi don't match and Balabatim today and now they're copycats barashm the thanks to your initiative that was that was that was the thanks to so just one final question as far as the greatest advice that you've gotten in your work in Askconus that you would maybe pass on to others the greatest advice that I can pass on to others is to realize and understand um let me tell it with with a story um uh when Rebnfinkle spoke in the Yikala and it was very difficult for him and involuntary movements. So when he came in the last years he was coming into wheelchair and Ribdon Segel was the next speaker. So Ribdon Seel was standing in the doorway while Rnosph was speaking and then after he spoke everybody said goodbye to him. He actually was going on a on a he was leaving to go to the airport to go to a fundraising trip to to to America. And Rnosen came in and said, "Do you know what you just saw?" Was sele do you realize what you just saw? He said, "Let me start with a story. A story within a story within a story is a story of Robert Tanabel in Vadishas was called by the briskarov on Yamkipa and he called him came to came to the briskarov. Briskov calls even comes and he showed him a need for forces he was in charge of getting pure for the yeshiva and the yeshiva bakham to the army. He showed him a letter somebody assigned to the army. It actually was to the navy and he said um I need a pur for this person. So Rabbi Tanibbalam looked at it and he said okay it's hashem after yam kipper I'll take care of it. So the girl says no today I can't today the vilnet you can but you don't want to say no no no I really I can't everything's closed today I can't do it today. you can but you don't want to. So okay what can do? So he went to the risk of yells at him like that. He was afraid. He goes to defense department. He goes there everything's locked. People are closed. So but of course there was some one general in charge there. What he went to the general I need this. So he said um okay looked at he says okay we can take care of the young keeper. I'll take care of it. He says no I need it today. I can't do it today. He said the ken slip the vilnet you can but you don't want to. They worked on it. They got it done. Came back to the briskarov. The pur was in his hand. Cesar Dunseel what does the briskarov mean when he said to Kento vils you can but you don't want to what was his message the briskarov was saying that we can really do nothing there's nothing that we can do we can't we want open up our mouth we can't open our hands we can't we can't do anything without without does everything what can we We can want. If we want, then we can accomplish. You just saw him. N doesn't seefinkle. He's a sick man. He has every right to say, "I'm a sick man. I take my medicine. I'm going to bed." But he wants. And because he wants, he built the biggest issue in the world. If you want, you can do everything with you can get everything done. I think that's the best advice to anybody. On that note, thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. Okay. All right. [Music]