Inside ArtScroll - Season 4 Episode 10: Rabbi Aaron Brafman zt”l – Through the Eyes of His Son an...

[Music] Hello everyone and welcome back to Inside Art Scroll where the books you read and the people who write them come to life. Today I am privileged to be joined by two special guests, Rabbi Rambarak Brahman and Rabbi Dovi Kilson. Rabbi Brahman is the only son of Rabbi Aaron Brahman. Rabbi Kilson is a close Talmud of Rabbi Brahman and the Mashiach of Miffim. And I will say that the reason why I described you that you are a Talmud is because you're still a Talmud. Even though Rabbi Brafen is not here, but you're very much living the ideals and trying to emulate the great manal of Yeshiva of Faraki and this book really what Rabbi Finkeleman did here a yman's job of bringing your father's story to life so that all of us could continue to be inspired by him. But speaking about the fact you mentioned that he's still a Talmud. So much so that it was really inspiration and driving force behind the actual book. He was the one that brought up the topic by one of the artside gatherings a few years ago and said we have to put out a book. Father was so special. My father is we we know that and we all felt that and all the tam felt that and was the driving force that brought it to life and we're forever grateful. Thank you. Thank you for doing that because this is a book that is that I I know you know at puts out a lot of books and they are all exceptional in their own way. This book is is very is uniquely warm. I would say there was something about your father that was just so they don't make people like that. Yeah. And uh so talk about you know verbs talking about how you were the driving force. What what entered your mind? What what did you envision? What did you see? That's a loaded question, but I think the most important nikuda that inspired me was that I felt compelled out of a sense of overwhelming to my rebi for everything that he did for me. asal tell us and even though it's impossible for a tal to adequately express a token of could be to be able to show the world a little glimpse of what we to have in our midst. Wow. Now we spoke to Rabbi Finkelman you know about about writing a book about a man. you were to be a son, right? And uh sometimes it's different. You know, my father's my father was to be a principal in the yeshiva I went to for many years and I was also had that vantage point. I knew my father at home. I knew my father in yeshiva. Um did you find that did you find that it was a different person? and the Rabbar Brahman Minahil of Yeshiv Varako and the Rabbar Brahman who's I would mention not only are you a son of Rabbar Brahman you are the only son and also Talmet and a Talmet. So it happens to be interesting that you bring this. We it was mentioned in the book. I think it's both in our introduction to the book and it was mentioned numerous times the fact that my father molded our family together with the yeshiva. There was no two things. We were part of the yeshiva upbringing part of the yeshiva experience. It was all one big happy family so to speak. And he made us want to be part of yeshiva. He he brought the ska home. He brought the the hashkafas of yeshiva home. I mean what was always in the house constantly for this especially after my sisters got older and where the house was just me constantly always over was always an exciting day in the house was the second the whole community came but it was mainly for the bak and we all and I speak for my sisters as well we all like looked forward to it and we went away always one year one week a year we went on an yes I yes retreat and he took us all along it was something we looked forward to time that he blended that there shouldn't be two things the yeshiva and our house but did you ever feel you know our father is so involved in the yeshiva and the tamidum lives tamidum's lives and interest are so much part of him did you ever feel like you know I I just want my father to be my father so obviously he struck a very impressive balance because I never had such feelings like he's too busy and I think part of the reason why it was that way is because we didn't look at yeshiva as something else it was We were all part of it. We felt that we were helping him. We were, you know, aiding him and assisting him whether he he wasn't home much and but he we always once a day we generally always had supper together throughout all the years I was growing up. He was always there unless there was a sa but and more more often than not we were it was all one and it wasn't like I had to feel like I was giving him away so to speak. M now you you from aid from a Talmud's vantage point Rabbi Brahman was so ibigan to the as the book describes he his devotion to every yak was almost superhuman how he was able to when he was speaking to a tal the only thing that existed in the world was that and you saw that as as a very close to and someone who benefited from that love and that care talk about what it meant to you. So coming into the yeshiva in 1989, I was a 10th grader. I was an artist for ninth grade with my family. Made a sbatical. And when I walked in, I was trying to find my way. And he right away took an interest. And the first thing that he did was which is in retrospect a an act of complete godless was he took a 10th grader who was not really yet into learning to say the least and he set him up to learn with his only son who was then in second grade. Oh wow. So you're in third grade you're in second grade. Yes. I believe it was only afternoon to learn what was the limudishnay. And then we went unfortunately over the years we've never really stopped learning even though it's not daily or weekly. But there was the the pikas in being able to raise up a talmid by giving him the trust that I want you to teach my own son. Wow. Did you feel you felt the pressure? No, I didn't feel pressure. I felt a pride that he really believed in me to the extent that in the summer of the 10th grade in that day camp that I had Matov he said to me I want you to be the rebi of my son's class second grade I was coming out of 10th grade at that point in my life I had no inkling of even thinking of as something that would be my future but he saw like was mentioned in in other in other venues is he saw things that we weren't able to see at the time. He saw the future and he saw the potential in me to be a mashpia one day and he just threw me into it. Which was uh metamorphosis. Did Did you push back at all on that on that or did you just say I just I I I was stunned and then I said, "Okay, I'll try." He said, "Don't worry, I'll help you out. It'll be good. I'll come in when you need me." And that was the first taste which we didn't give him an easy time. That's also true. It was it was a moment of transformation for me in in my head of what what I want to do in the future. That's it's inspiring to to all of us to hear because it shows what the belief of a could do to a to a teenager. Yeah. imbue in them a belief that they of they didn't even know they had and really transformed their lives. Not right. It's not a not an exaggeration to say. It's not uh not even slight exaggeration. And to think that uh how many years later we're we're stand we're sitting here today that you were the driving force behind the book written about him that t you know to think about how it came full circle that 10th grader who you know maybe didn't know where his life was headed. Well, what's most amazing, if I could interject, is that throughout the writing of the book and the interviews and the discussions with Rab Shimlman's local, who was it who was really incredible and we're so happy that we chose him. He did a remarkable job. Um, I learned in the process of the writing so many more things about my relationship with Ry Brahman that I didn't even realized before. And one of those things were in conversation with Ri Finkelman in the morning when I would see him in I would go up to my office and I would see a 10th grader walking down the hallway and I would think to myself that was me and I I say to him come to my office let's learn together. It was it's really you know bringing like you said full circle but bringing to reality everything that I received and now is hashem trying to give it over var to the next door. So you you do you think about Rabbi Brahman quite often I imagine your position as a mashk. So I happen to have a picture of him right next to my my my seat. I have a picture of him being ate kaducian and I believe I I could I I could honestly say a day does not go by that I don't think about him. Now back on the home front. Yeah. What was your impression going growing up of of your father? Of course, as you described, the yeshiva and the family were one. But now that you hear so many testimonies of Tamidum who were who were transformed by by this legendary man, but to you he was a father, right? He was he was your father. Did did you see that at home? Did you know? We definitely saw he was always learning. One of the things it's actually mentioned in the book that he one of the cabalas he made when he first started out that his children should only see him learning never wasting his time. He never was home doing nothing. He's either sitting at the table learning sitting in the couch with a safer. He's never looking at a newspaper or doing anything else unless it was in the you know unless he was you know but otherwise he was always wanted the children should always see him learning and he was he had sodum and many different things. He was constantly making sum every yard sight of his parents. I mean eventually when his parents first his grandfather and then his parents then when my other grandparents my mother's parents went after he made it see him every yard for them as well constantly finishing he always was on top of what the yeshiva was learning cuz he whenever rebi wasn't there he'd just fill in whether it was nth grade 12th grade would make a difference and bam used to come over and ask him questions throughout the entire maka at night we just it was very common he just walk over to my father and say what's nth grader wants to know and he had you know he was always answering on But so we were always aware of my father's greatness. But what I wasn't maybe so aware of until I until we sat cha you know close to six years ago and then seeing the the book and all the interviews and the phenomenal job did but the the roam and the lifechanging impact that he had it was unbelievable. We were really it was like impress like we were like not surprised but like we didn't realize how farreaching his effect had and it's happening daily people are walking bump over bump into me whenever I wherever I go ask my name and they say oh you later oh he did this he did that people never yes there's people in the community or they even remember him from camp he's had learning rebi there you know close to 40 years ago and he had he had a he his warmth and his his realness really I think that's very it's very interesting what you're saying because sometimes, you know, you have people who are involved in in agonos and they're helping out a lot of people and and it's written all over them. You know, you see it. They're they're harried. They're they're overwhelmed. They have lists. They're pulling it out. They're making phone calls. So, you know, someone like your father who really was carrying so much. Um I would almost think that it would manifest itself on the home front, but it doesn't sound like it. No, it was like pretty amazing. That's very interesting. So there's one word that I thought would come out already in the interview but Venrainman touched on many nudas and it was unbelievable but you have to and one of my brothers and I think said this in the book but I think if you'd have to define my father in a certain sense in one word it was a he was a for himself for his for the yeshiva for the community and he felt in he would constantly call up I know numerous times over as well when they stole involved in a good to share his opinion about what they should do or not do. He would call the rshivas and different yeshivas if they felt he felt they could do something to wake up call certain things were going on if there was amounts of inherit whatever the need was he felt you know as as Sherman mentioned is in forward in his forward it was so classic you know he was once talking to Sherman about the fact how some schools wanted to do an end of year trip and there just been a terrorist attack or something and they came to Shak if they should maybe tone down the trip and said yeah they should tone it and my father and et. But it's so bothersome. Why do they need to ask? Shouldn't they have their own das and this was so and I remember as I was getting old and I started appreciating his and his reggish more and I used to tell him things that you know what I've saw from my perspective here now living in lakewood different people either doing things or not doing things. They used to they didn't get they didn't say tumm after ding like when you need someone to tell you to go say tummus you have to d like this was that's how we walked around and to be wherever he was tell I mean I know without without a question there's something that the saw right there something he spoke about is every single went by without mentioning clalist those words repeatedly throughout his quotable quote in Yeshiva the B used to make fun of but it was always the matzah in the belt that was his quotable quote that was his go-to every topic was always something the mat in the belt you know what's you know what we could do world and what we're not living for ourselves we're living as part of something bigger than ourselves but on a on a tangible level as a mechanical yourself now what do you think he really wanted from 9th 10th 11th 12th graders b You know, most boys are focused hopefully on their own personal aliyah, which is what they should be focused on. What did he really want from teenagers? Just before we leave answers, I just want to interject because numerous times in the schwuzm he would say, "I know you're too young, but I have to say it anyway." Uhhuh. He was planting seeds. Planting seeds. That's the answer. But maybe has a different take. That's definitely one part of the answer giving us um hogas of what we should yearn to feel even if we're not feeling it yet. But I think like Rafin mentioned so beautifully you're not created for yourself. If we saw with our own eyes the manifestation of that Mishna Rabinman also mentioned that he was he had foresight. He saw years ahead of his time different various things and I'm sure on a on a level that was true also that may okay maybe the 10th 11th 12th grader doesn't understand fully what I'm saying now about the velt about thinking outside of your daras but one day one day their manal's words will will seep in. I'm sure that was part of part of his approach because you see his have gone on to become no matter what they're doing in their life they remember Rabbi Brahman and and his ashbah could I add one because Rabbi Vanbar is mentioning the way the family sort of uptight the Tata um by speaking to a lot tell me that's definitely an uptight that's MS but my uptight if I'm allowed uptight a mench but just at least one cook on him which I I know resonated a lot with a lot of tamidum was the sense of unbelievable humility and the shifa to always be growing to the point that he would express that constantly to us. Besides telling us that you're young, you don't understand what I'm saying, he would tell us repeatedly every single and in personal conversations, you're so lucky you're young. You have so much that you could still do. And we saw that shifa every that any bak any would make. First of all, I still don't know where the mina came from, but he would say along the hajan. Everyone remembers that. Oh, really? He would say along the haj with us. Would all the would all the bak made us see him? He would say the haj with us. Whatever the min reason I think it does it too. Rasha does it too. Whatever the min is for the the reason for that minug is the mitas was he was living the scene with us. I want to finish also just like you're you're finishing and the pastas that he would run the yeshiva putting up the signs on on on the door of what time the man are going to be cleaning up the the tables to the point where a rebi told me after he was lifted. He said to me what I saw in my brain was an evid neon to hashem and to the cl without any fanfare. He was cleaning up a table setting up the place for shabas. He was there early early for chakras early for shas it the and the the point is that he l you would tell him that we're having an interview about a book that's written about you he would he wouldn't know what we're talking about right 100% his humility his humility was his humility was off the charts off the charts off the charts and that's one of the things that endeared him to people in general but Yeah. When when their manal is so self- aacing and so not about himself. You you know you talk about cleaning up. There's no ego. There's no ego. You read this book and you see in story after story. It was never ever I don't think ever about himself. It was never ever about himself. So when you have a makan who's being mak not ever about himself or his ego, is it a wonder that he was able to touch people and that everyone should say way right I'm sorry for interrupting that everyone should say about him the same words he was so special and he loved me so much like ourman said but I'm telling you as a talmet that this what we say to each other I could tell you just also again speaking we're speaking over here very personal as a son, as a Talmud and we spoke to Rabbi Finkelman as the writer and as someone who knew Rabbi Brahman but I could tell you from going around now telling people I'm excited to tell people you know there's a book coming out about Brahman everyone has the same reaction it's like wow and they get they just smile they hear they hear your father's name and it's a smile that that's everyone's reaction is Rabbi Brah was one of those people when you heard his name when you met him when you saw him it made you just feel better as as a person. I'm sure you hear that thing as once the cover was ready and I started, you know, showing it to people that was the excitement was just like palpable, you know, it was especially the close to but even not you know, I sent it out random people just to get them excited, right? Cuz you know, it's been a long time in the making and finally about to be released. I I would be remiss. I want to mention this now so I don't forget, but the book describes how he was to other people and I'm sure and you could talk about this as a son. I'm sure the hero behind that was your mother because your father was able to he he he devoted his life to the yeshiv devoted his life to he devoted his life to k but he's only able to do that if someone on the home front is is carrying the load and and I can't almost every seven sisters a lot of and every used to one of his main points he used to always say my mother was only child who grew up in San Francisco and he looked at the room and he just stam start crying that was a constant and it didn't happen more than once. It wasn't just like okay once and he cries and every single knew you know with the same emotion and definitely my mother takes a tremendous amount of credit and she deserves a tremendous amount of credit and the book should serve as some type of some type of you know what was that she said if I can interrupt after the shiva she said I was married to him for for 40 no 50 something years and and I didn't realize who he was to to the to the extent the extent of who he was that was a lesson that she said the extent that wasn't that lesson there were stories coming with Mamish had no saying a lot of them are in the book but there I'm sure there are many that are not you say there was there was some kind of dynamic there where he somehow had his pulse on the community and in terms of just in things that he was involved in without people realizing giving people money when they he knew that they were going through a difficult all the time. No one knew how he knew about they weren't associated with yeshiva. I remember them they were telling us weren't parents. They didn't have any in yeshiva and he somehow heard that the person lost his job. He called him up. He said, "The next few months you rents on me." And how? And no one know how he knew. No one even, you know, but he had this, he had this sense, like I said, he had sense of Christ. He just felt and when there was nothing, I mean, it was mentioned somewhat before. It was nothing that was beneath him to do. And he didn't feel that if there's something to be done that someone else should do it. He's going to pick up the phone and take care of it. And I was like some of the articles did a phenomenal job in chapter 12 which is focused on the Jewish observer articles which was a very hard chapter to write because it really he worked through the articles and picked out certain kudas which were main and he he like had a made it perish basically on them and he and and I don't know if it says in the book exactly which year all them were written I think it does but I remember someone was one of the said you know he was in this is go back in the mid70s and he wrote an article about about and he was a young and he was and he and it was a very solid piece from a standpoint and he relatively young in his in his in his right and to take on such a and to put his name out there with such a stance it was like unbelievable but and he was such an honor it was but he saw a need he saw a void and he felt that he you know if no one else can do it he's going to he's going to do it yeah like think mentioned He he he felt that for all to to to put messages out there, right? As opposed to just being consumed with his old own busy yeshiva and his own busy schedule, he had a lot on his plate. But whether it was by a good convention or through articles in the Jewish Observer, whatever medium was available to to get a message out there, you felt that after. And I know I know after the Jewish Observer stopped, he felt like there was no place that he felt comfortable to be able to convey his his, you know, his ideas and his ideals. know there's many beautiful magazines but he felt for him for his his audience so to speak that he wanted to address that he he needed you know he was very he did very much become synonymous with that right a pure untainted hashkafa and uh he was part of what made the Jewish observer so unique right you know but but but as much as that's true that he lost that platform um one of the things you see is that your father was able to adapt with the times throughout his years. He started off being Mhanak in the 1970s. He finished in the in the teens in in the 2000s and and yet he was as effective at the end as he was at the beginning because he was constantly evolving. You saw that a thousand% and I got the stellar and so one of the most exciting parts about moving back was that as Hashem we will be able to I be able to see him more and every summer we would learn together once again just like the days of the Talmud as a Talmud we learned for five years straight you learn every single day lunch in his office from 11th grade through third year and what what did you learn with him. We went through the whole pic of spion. We learned some Tanya, we learned Russ, we learned a whole array of different things. And then when I got to Stellar, so on the summers, he he would come over to me as soon as I would finish and say, "You're home for the summer. Let's learn together. Let's learn together slowly." Wow. And we learned together. We learned Na'vi together. And so the the connection and and seeing also his continuous hashbah it's I mean I'm more amazed than anything else that he he had a lunch to catch his breath but rather than catch his breath he was learning with a d that alone is breakfast or lunch one of the breakfast to lunch. Yeah. Did he ever take a break during the day? him just his schedule from the morning when he came for D he damisha nishiva he came home usually once English got under way like 3 3:30 he used to come home for most I mean to certain kufus but you should you know take a little break in the afternoon mid afternoon the early afternoon but 6:30 7:00 he's back in his night and he had a night program for Balbatan that he started years and years ago learning with Dr. Joel Bal for night forbat 12 or 27 years. Really? Yeah. And that was in yeshiva also he would give kaburas and shabas afternoon he would give a shir to balam also and that was a unique thing about it was besides was also a community minion right so there was always other people any sure that I remember that I remember right especially in the early days there were very few that was where they went and any new face he'd walk over and introduce himself and say do you need and he you Now I I asked this Rabbi Finkelman. I'm curious from your standpoint as a son, did you was there were there people who your father quoted as his you know his people he emulated who you found shaped his worldview. So, I'm going to sound like a cop, but it really was the Em saying my great-grandfather definitely who I'm named after definitely was his earliest. He learned he put out his native print, but he put out on constantly on his lips saying Argalo is is you know went through through and through. He's constantly quoting him through you know in the early years for sure. I mean recently there's a lot more and there was a lot more things to look at but in his early always you know and he was very came to he kept up that he was came to my and as a you heard this as well right this was constant he asked me to pick up Rafam to bring him to one of the uh and the way palam greeted Rafen at the sim I I see it namish Today he's six years since his almost almost six years. Almost six years, right? And and and there was a feeling among those close to him like yourselves and other that you know uh there's a there's a tremendous void. There's tremendous void. The hope is that this book, not that we could ever fill the void, but the book could serve as a as a to perpetuate everything he personified and everything that we're missing in Rabbi Brahman today. We could we could all really carry on that legacy in some way, shape or form. I don't think any one of us is capable of doing everything he did because it was kind of superhuman how he balanced so much. S is learning in the kin and the asconus of being Isaac in so many different things in his nus oil which was just beyond anyone's imagination. Uh his humility which alone is is was mindboggling to add one thing that wasn't mentioned if you don't mind. Yeah of course unless my time is up. No no please. Um the year something that was not mentioned in the book. No, no, no, no. I'm sorry. What this point mentioned now was not mentioned in the book brim. I remember he once came to speak in shif was spoken for used to come to in square. Oh went there to they got close to him when the learn went to learn in the mirror at one point they go to brim's house. Yeah. And they were from brim. Uh-huh. So one time when he came from I remember like yesterday he drove out to man to square to pick him up and for months after the said could not stop talking about Brahman and the year of Shayim on his face is the words he said and the em is that asum we walk into the yeshiva now it's beautiful the biny is beautiful the terra is beautiful inside outside is beautiful the misa is to anybody that walks into yeshiva you cannot not hurt when you see his empty seat and by his seat there's a plaque that uh typifies it didn't make it to the book but it typifies the of Braman was known for his I remember sitting in Bish's first seder there were times he would come in and go to hisender take the red to hill and pace back and forth. I don't know if he did it in your time anymore. my time it was it was it was it was he left it in the m when you've come in say and then you go back out and everyone remembers the ding the certain points of there's no one that um that you that that ded was a yeshiva that doesn't remember his bra before that was that this went into your kishkus the shamay name that was dripping from that braha and these things are eternal influences. Did I say okay? Yeah. Any final thoughts on on you know people are viewing this people are going to go out and get the book and Rabbi Finkeleman said so beautifully that a biography to really appreciate you have to read it more than once. to safer not not because it's heavy but because to internalize it it's it's it's more than just leisure reading it this book reads ah it's so beautiful reads so gishmak it's a very enjoyable read% I say this about all of I remember when he sent us the manuscript we we couldn't put it down not just because of our father it was just read so easily and just one thing after the other and the stories are but something that didn't mention which I think is so important people to realize that he was is a regular person. Thank you. I was about to say and like we read biographies of Gdelum sometimes it's we feel it's beyond our reach and nice stories. Wow. But he really was a normal personal person and he just did. He he did he never stopped doing. There's so many things in the book that are any person could really emulate and do. to both of you. Thank you for coming out to reminisce about your father but you know we we lost we lost the gem when your father was nefar when your rebi was nefar but uh but he hasn't been forgotten and this book will ensure that not only won't he be forgotten but thousands and thousands of people who never knew Rabar Brahman will be able to be inspired on some level by his life, by his ideals, by everything he stood for and uh the book should serve as an alias for him and for all you know he should continue to be a for you for your mother for the for the for yeshiva for all those who are so touched by him. So thank you again for being a thank you so much for everything. Thank [Music] you. Heat. Heat. [Music]