Arguments Without Animosity: How To Disagree And Still Remain Friends -Rabbi Mordechai Becher

eight eight five one eight six five one or email ist yeshivenet.com tonight we have the table once again international speaker speak on arguments without animosity it's recovered the quran or rebecca tonight thank you i feel like saying goodbye because you know it's a just finished above so uh so the uh there's an article fascinating article by a fellow by the name of jonathan hate haid i don't know pronounce it h-a-i-d-t the article is called why the past 10 years of american life have been uniquely stupid and his thesis is based on the prevalence of social he blames it on social media to a great degree but not social media per se but on certain aspects of it most specifically there is the there was the invention of the like button like so what happens is uh and this caused the falling of part of things why is that you see the um the like and the retweet posts basically what the way it works is it triggers emotions if i trigger emotions and get people to retweet it or to like it then that amplifies my view so the posts that are most likely to be shared are the ones that trigger emotions like anger i think it's okay thank you okay anger thank you anger outrage disgust etc which means if i produce a post that gets people angry i'll get more likes which means i'm encouraged to produce more anger more outrage more hatred and it's a never-ending cycle unfortunately he describes it as type of interesting he says it's like handing a four-year-old a loaded weapon with darts right so everyone who basically even people in fact most people who know nothing about a particular subject but if their emotions are aroused by the post will like or the opposite will happen so what happens is that social media has magnified and weaponized he says the frivolous emotions as opposed to intellect it has created in addition to that a lack of trust in institutions even though it's true we should not blindly trust institutions but some level of trust in the court system in various aspects of our institutions is what society is based on you know i come out of the subway and which happens to me used to happen to be often when i used to use the subway come out of the subway manhattan and i say what is is is 53rd that way or that way right i end up walking a block and find out i just went to 50 seconds so i asked someone excuse me and it's an advantage just have a foreign accent because people think you're a stupid tourist right in fact i'm a stupid resident right but so i say is 53rd street that way or that way and they'll say that way now people unless they're severely mistaken people usually don't lie about this i mean i trust the person to tell me yeah yeah it's that way and i go that direction there's a certain trust i have but the the uh heights of emotion anger outrage and an amplification of every little tiny detail of everything which immediately spreads around the world is has really created a tremendous level of distrust and a tremendous level of discord and he claims is it has actually encouraged stupidity but okay that's just an introduction arguments we know uh mach lucas is obviously in certain cases in most cases a terrible thing we just we just marked tish above where the gemara famously says it was done with the three serious are they most serious are various and it says mig dashaini which is pretty shocking you know it was mig dash shiny it says they were oysek patoira mitzvos they learned torah they did mitzvos they did kindness so why was it destroyed me sinner that's a little jarring if you're talking about someone who learns torah does mitzvahs and engages in acts of kindness kamilas khasadim how does it actually fit that such a person is full of sin to the point where the base of medias is destroyed it's a little puzzling right you wouldn't expect it if i describe someone to you and you say what's he like and i say he does torah mitzvahs or gamelos so i don't think you'd expect a hateful person yeah yeah i put on the resume torah mitsubishi and i hate many people that doesn't that doesn't seem to fit with the rest of it right so the uh the hammock dover the native in his introduction to boracious it's a fascinating introduction i'm only going to read a short just two lines from it he actually discusses this and he says i don't get it he says um says this sadiq piratino i explained in another place that during bhai shining sadiq they were righteous they were makhmi they were pious and they they they struggled they engaged in torah lord you s they were not upright in the way they dealt with the world now he explains what that means because they had hatred in their hearts if they saw someone acting not exactly as they felt was appropriate in torah in euros hashem the apocalypse they immediately said this person is a sadducee and an epicorus in other words there's an idea that it was actually there yet it was their frunkie to some degree actually to a great degree that actually caused the sinas they used it as a as a bludgeon so to speak now i remember i once speaking at uh i think it was gateways i remember it was a convention somewhere shabbaton and i was talking about the life of the maharal of prague and i mentioned in the course of my discussion and i know i'm putting myself at risk here but i mentioned in the course of my discussion that i i didn't believe that the maharal created a golem i said you know i he never mentions it b he has two talmidium who are historians neither of them mention it c the first mention of it we find is a couple of hundred years after the maharal and d most of the details of the story come from a book written by rebuttal rosenberg who was a great talmud hockham he actually did a translation of the desire he wrote many for him but reviewed rosenberg in addition to writing sforum of etc also wrote fiction and he produced a bibliography of his works later in his life dividing them into halakha history fiction his book with all the details about the creation of the golem is not in the halacha section or the fiction or the history section it's in the fiction section so i mentioned this and a guy stood up there's probably about 100 people there there are more people than and he said epic horus now type of interesting i i'm wondering which one of the thirteen ikrae emunah the rambam wrote did i i find it hard to believe the rum mum would have believed did i either but uh which one of the yukimumilicrim was i a cofarian i disagree with something which is a deeply felt belief that you've had since you were a kid that doesn't make me an apocalypse not everything that you believe since you're a child is halaqa masinay no there are plenty of things we learned in haiti maybe we learned in school which i don't know maybe yes maybe no i don't know maybe the rebbe had a bad day that they say the grow used to only stand up for one for one of his rebellion his first grade rebbe i know they had grades then why he said why he taught me aleph bass so he's the only person i can say absolutely taught me absolute ms aleph bass gimmel that no questions right that's for sure is that everyone else who knows yeah maybe yeah it's arguable but what what's what the hammock dover is saying the native is saying is that to someone disagrees with me someone disagrees even with a deeply held belief i've had for for years etc that doesn't make him or her an epic horus does not make them a tsuduki does not make them a rosham arusha right so again that's that's important so so we know that the dangers of it as we see from the khurban bayes shiny we also know famously that that even people who are learning together as we learned in your vomits whatever it was two months ago i don't remember right but the gemara says that that uh the schneiderman medium right that the the the twelve thousand hebrews that rabia kiva had his students right now good coverage zeb is there didn't have they didn't have respect for each other i i don't know what it means exactly but obvi they didn't have sufficient respect as should be expected from tarmida murray kiva in that base madras etc right clearly also it's madras rubber godel rabio mcgoddal assalam says this it's an amazing thing affilo israel is even if the jews are idolaters the solemn they nay him but there is peace amongst them amara marcom hashem says i cannot exert my power over them to destroy them why because the solemn amazing and the gemara actually talks about this says at a time of one king so the jews lost no battles they lost no one uh to to war etc why why because there was unity amongst them and yet at later kings where the jews were sadiq they didn't know if they were not if they have razor they were marmeenium but there was there were there was conflict there was machlokus they lost so on the one hand we know all the negatives about arguments and about much locus but on the other hand disagreements are absolutely inevitable it's absolutely impossible that we won't have disagreements why is that well first of all look in the hummus says the torah says when this will happen and it will happen you'll have arguments about all different issues and so on and so forth are all types of halachus so the torah sets up a system whereby we can resolve those known as the sanhedrin the batte din the torah says there will be that type of macholicus it's inevitable and why will it be so so you know the gemaran brachus says there's a special bracha if you see 600 000 jews i've never seen that i've seen a quarter of a million which is impressive it was a burika sahama one year at the ko cell right i forgot which year it was but it was a while ago right was mind-boggling even there i couldn't say the bronco but it's not six hundred thousand actually i was recently in tanzania um about uh three weeks ago with legacy tours i was i was the tour guide running the tour we had a safari so we saw a million approximately there's a there's a great migration approximately a million wildebeests and zebras migrate north from tanzania to kenya in pursuit of water and green grass in fact it is actually greener on the other side it's actually to factor so but it's it's a it's one of the most incredible sites you've ever seen right a million right so we didn't see a million but we saw tens of thousands so before i before i went i always uh i always in summer i do these tours always i'm always asking uh weird you know weird questions to rehearsal so who who he sees me coming and he's oh no so um he's asking what broker do i make when i see the the great migration he said there's no project we're not talking a broker on that so there's no broker it's a lit fish answer i was like i wanted to say he says you can't there's no broker what do you want right but if you see six hundred thousand jews you say the brock what broker do you say interesting bracha the hashem who is the wise one of all secrets and what it means is the gemara goes on to say shane dayton no one's mind is the same as everyone else as anyone else ain't so fam domin in the same way there's no two faces no one right we don't have the same faces so we don't have the same minds everyone looks at things differently you imagine we a world in which everyone would see things in exactly the same way everyone would think exactly the same way would not really be a very meaningful world we'd all be clones that's it i don't know if we'd have free will i don't know if it's conceivable to have free will and when there's no variation in human thought no it's impossible and not only that but it's type of interesting you know disagreement is not only inevitable but i think it might be desirable there's actually there's actually a positive aspect to it in again the native when it comes to the to comes to the dora flogger migdal buffalo so it's kind of interesting you look in the hummus it's unclear what they are it's it's unclear what the aveda was i mean what's clear is they didn't yet do the athera that's actually suto salmikra simple reading of the sukkim regarding the migdal bavel did they do enough era yet no what hashem says if i don't split them apart la ivatsem they will not refrain right they'll not be they'll they'll succeed in doing the wrong thing so therefore i'm going to stop them from doing it that means hakoresh barco actually stepped in to intervene before the negative result occurred but the negative result had not yet happened so it's type of interesting and it's unclear what the other and of course there are many uh uh perusing the midrashim and what the various surveillance was and muhammad and escaping the flood etc but on the on the level of understanding in the in the sukiyama it's very unclear what it is so then it's if then it's if says something fascinating he says you know what he says they wanted what it says they wanted to do was create unity right which which we would think is impressive they all spoke the same language and the same words and they wanted to live all together and they wanted to have this tower that would unite everyone big tower ring no not ring sorry but a tower that would unite everyone and bring them all together which sounds like a relatively benign and positive component but the native says actually no hakaresh bahu didn't want that because what they wanted was that everyone should speak the same think the same look the same live in the same place and just everyone be exactly the same and he says no course bro who didn't want that that's not that's because that sameness creates negativity right it's an amazing thing so that's what cottage broker did he forced them to be different he created different languages and of course language affects the way you think language effects there's even some some fascinating studies about languages uh regarding the future tense and the use of different tenses regarding savings people people putting away money for future savings is affected by the language fascinating stuff so language affects the way you think the way you emote and so on and so forth and that was what was wrong here what was wrong with the dora flogger was they would all be the same i remember in the 60s i know some of you may remember the 60s a lot of people lived here in the 60s don't remember it but nevertheless a good friend of mine actually he was a brusser of mine became froome after the 60s but he did a doctorate in physics at cal at university of berkeley in california and he actually doesn't remember the decade amazing did a doctorate he doesn't remember okay anyway so um but hakoreshboku doesn't want that he wants people to be different so in the 60s there was a song they used to sing little boxes on the hillside anyone remember this little boxers made a ticky tacky or boxes on and they're all made out of and the children go to school and they go to university and they're all made out of tiki taki and they all look just the same there's a green one and a blue one and a pink one the yellow one and they're all made out of tiki taki and they all look just the same it was a great song i remember learning it when i was in school and and basically was making fun of the fact that everyone would just do the same thing and look the same slight variations in color here and there but all of a sudden but that's not what a cursed boy who wants he wants the individuality wants us to be authentic to ourselves and and it's like interesting not only that but even in the creation of adam and chava fascinating the torah says very right and a lot of them are fortunate to discuss what does it mean how do you translate the azare connector that means an opposing helper connector could mean standing opposite you can mean being opposed to you so how does that work azer means help connector means opposing remember george w bush either you with us or you're against it right it's right unless you have a lot of oil but whatever either way right what does it mean is there a connector opposing helper so i think one of the meanings of it is you know there's there's a there's a natural historian stephen jay gould um who used to teach at harvard and he wrote a book called the panda's thumb so in the book he talks about the thumb of the panda being evidence that it was not created not designed why he says because the panda's thumb is only useful for one thing peeling bamboo this is if there was a designer a creator he should have created a swiss army thumb you know he could do a million things with it right panda's thumb should have been like wow i could do anything but of course steven j gould who now is a mayman by the way because he passed away about 10 years ago so um but in any case stephen j gould is a full i'll tell you why because the only thing a panda needs its thumb for is what bamboo peeling bamboo that's it that it doesn't need to doesn't need to text right it doesn't need to hit your ride right it does not need to press a space bar doesn't need okay so right the panda is fine you know a good engineer doesn't put too much stuff in because too much stuff just going to go wrong a good engineer designs it exactly what you need right now the human thumb on the other hand very different from the panda's thumb we have what's called an opposable thumb right what that means is it comes from the opposite direction of the fingers just so see right the opposite direction of the fingers because you see the greatest help for my fingers is to have something coming from the opposite direction the same is true in life the greatest help i can have is someone who has a different and sometimes even an opposing perspective you know it's like when you have when you have when you see with two eyes that's stereo vision you see with one eye you have problems problem of depth perception this problem of seeing things three-dimensionally you have two eyes because they come from slightly different angles that's where you get the stereo view so on the contrary azer connector is the greatest help is that the person is not exactly just agreeing with you all the time it's interesting the gemara tells this in bother matsia the amazing fantastic gemara says that when when i mean it's a sad gamora but okay it is still neces you know it says that um so we know rabiot and ray schlakisch will have russes they're also was very upset at the loss of his dear frusa so um basically you know the chevra said you know what let's send over one atomic he'll learn with ruby okay he'll feel he'll feel better so rebel ozaben padas comes over to learn with uh with ruby okanan and everything ruby okanan says robloza says oh tucker there's a mishna like that there's a bracelet tanya the messiah there's a bracer that's mamas just like you said so ryokan starts crying more she says what's going on so joachim says he says when i learnt with ray shlakis he says everything i said every single thing i said he had 24 cashes 24 problems 24 questions on everything i said and i had to come up with 24 answers to his 24 questions he says i don't need a caruso to agree with me he says i know i don't need someone to say oh tucker you're right there are people who hire people like that you know they walk around like you're right oh you're a superman right but no that's not what a russia is the idea of russo anyone who's had a herosa and yeshiva we know the idea is the argument friend of mine mentor of mine david gottlieb oliver solomon so he uh he brought a relative of his who was a law professor to see the mere yeshiva in yerushalayim he thought it would impress her so the mirror had not yet expanded to every single square inch there was still actually an ezra nashim that was available so he takes her out to the azerus nation and she looks out and she sees like 2 000 guys screaming at each other now she's a law professor law libraries are very quiet right little dunkin donuts coming in and out of the coffee pages turning etcetera it's not a lot of noise mere yeshiva any yeshiva it's the exact opposite cacophony oh it's great and she looks at him and she says why do they hate each other he says hate each other why do you say that she said well they're screaming at each other she says no all these people are the best of friends right they actually right nasim ayuvim said that gamora says right rather like even bashar that their enemies when they're arguing with that nassim or even they love each other right the idea of is not to agree with each other but to have two different perspectives i have a friend i have two friends in korea one is the guy who's in yeshua with me is now the israeli ambassador to the republic of korea and the other one is jungmen who who who i met at you know yeshiva university in new york and he did a doctorate and he is now in korea so i was doing a tour of south korea i got there two days before the tour started because the flights were all weird so okay i got it two days early and uh so jung says to me would you like to give a lecture there's a lot of study the university is called uh samyuk university republic of korea has a has done a lot of studies on what is the most effective method of absorbing and remembering material what what is the most single most they they came out the following it was a 2013 study there have been other studies since then they basically studied the rate of memory formation in the brain 24 hours after studying in various ways they gave people tests 24 hours later so some people studied by reading some people by audio visual some people watched a demonstration some people listen to a lecture some people discussed it with someone else and some people actually taught the material okay so not rocket science here what they found was this reading five percent sorry lecture explanations someone lecturing to you and giving you the explanations five percent memory retention 24 hours later reading the material yourself 10 audio visual 20 demonstrations 30 discussion between two people 75 percent if you had to teach the material the material you had to teach that was a 90 percent retention rate trouble reminds you of the gemara right right fascinating scientific study reflecting the reality which the gemara mentioned thousands of years ago so i gave a lecture to a group of educators in korea um not jewish all right educators in korea about the system they were interested in how does it work in yeshivas what exactly is it what do you do what's the source of it how does the kubrusha system work and i i mentioned to them that there are six benefits primarily in the hebrews system number one listening listening if you want to argue with someone without animosity that requires listening paying attention to what the other person said sometimes they're it used to annoy me but you know sometimes the russo there are some like hot heads yeah you say a word and he immediately says i know what you're going to say right you've got to say this there's no toys that says not like how about listening to what i said first right not everyone is actually a great story ruby jessica lebronski so he was giving a shirt in london give me sheer in london in the middle of the sheer he looks over he sees someone in the sheer and and he just looks at them and okay carries on the sheer at the end of the shear this rov who he looked at in the middle of the shoe comes over to him afterwards and robert jessica lebronski says the answer is toys for us in kitten right who says this and this and this and that's the answer to the question you were going to ask me and he said how did you that that was the answer to the question he said you know he says he says as soon as i said what i said i saw your eyebrows rise i said he's a robber so that means he's probably giving a duff yomi shir and i figured to myself oh what i said sounds a little bit not like it says in the gemara in daffy of yesterday he says but there's a taisus another maserta that answers it and it's miyashev what i said is based on that ptosis and it works well and the guy said the rob said uh yeah yeah right now most of us are not ruby jessica lebronski all right i did see people raise their eyebrows don't worry can ask a question afterwards i'm not gonna right but but uh but you but with a javrusa part of the thing that you learn one of the things you learn when one of the things you learn from the process of the reversa is to listen to the other person right that's really important to know what they're saying that's one of the ways of reducing animosity in other words to entertain the possibility let me hear what he's saying right sometimes we have the reaction someone says a word and it's a trigger word right and that trigger word just says ah he's not because so this is that he's totally off etc no right listen to the whole thing ignore the trigger words all right and listen to the entire statement and maybe just maybe he's making sense articulating when you have a russo you've got to articulate you've got to be able to explain what you're thinking you know what i mean no i don't know what you mean please explain articulation is also very important when you have animosity very often comes from people making assumptions if you articulate well if you explain well then there's very often will reduce the animosity wondering about things focusing on things supporting someone and challenging someone so part of it also is and this is what we learned from the talmudim verb yakiva which who by the way the gomorrah says doesn't say he had twenty four thousand students says he had twelve thousand pairs of students even then jews came in pairs right right the talmidium were bruces but it's interesting lloyd nagur covered zeb azer one of the ideas is that when you are arguing with someone there's got to be a level of humility and derek eretz humility means that entertain the possibility that i might be wrong not me obviously but the rest of you right but but to entertain the possibility that maybe the other person has said something which is true look at base like the more famous gamora in aravind right where base someone based hillel argue was a two and a half three and a half years three years they're arguing that's a long that's a long argument three years right actually the truth is we've we've out without done them i think there are much locations around in our world which are much like but okay right three years they're arguing the gamora says the bus call comes out and says halakha's like base hillel etc right and uh and it's a good question why do you need a bus call if though the majority toys deals with that but one of the ideas that gomorrah says is what was their merit that the was like them in almost all cases right it says they would explain their own words and also bashami's that means they had sufficient in other words in order to really the maharal explains in bear hagola in order to really know truth you've got to know both sides i can't really be convinced that my understanding is right unless unless your question has been entertained by me unless your view has been entertained by me we find this in halacha there's a there's a real there's a major problem the gamoran harass which talks about as you know the masseter is about mistakes made by the sanhedrin so senator makes a mistake they puskin incorrectly about something so let's say there is a talmud hochum taurus scholar who knows he's convinced the sanhedrin is wrong you know the sanhedrin says this product is kosher he said what are they out of their mind that's wrong right and he tells his shawl don't eat this product it's not kosher what is such a rat what is such a person called this is zucchini mamra isn't he zuckerman means he's a rebellious elder to capital punishment it's in davos and a girl of course but whatever right but but it's certainly it's a huge missus the zuckerberg but the gomorrah says this the murray says well if he what if they say they say the following they say it's kosher he is convinced 100 they're wrong he knows it's not kosher all right and he goes and eats it he's okay sanhedrin said so he eats it so gomorrah there's a bracelet that says he brings a carbon cartes that's problematic corbin khatus as you know sin offering is only brought for it's not brought for maisy deliberate sins it's not brought for ines beyond my control what's it brought for only right negligence shia et cetera he made a mistake he made a mistake it wasn't beyond his control and it wasn't deliberate he made a mistake sigmar says what mistake did he make so gemara says his mistake was he thought he has to listen to the homiem even though he's convinced they're wrong and therefore since he made that mistake he has to bring a corporatist so now rambam and the ramban the rama doesn't ask it but he answers it the ramban asks what's the guy supposed to do if he does if he tells his kihilla don't eat this i think it's not kosher even though he says kosher zakhen mamre rebellious elder if he eats it what happens corbin khatus he brings a sin offering so what it what what's he's caught between silla and charitis the rock and the hard place what's he supposed to do so the rambam and the ramban both point out the following they said until he has argued with the sanhedrin he must follow his own conscience he's to go to the sanhedrin present his opinion his dissenting opinion if then they heard his opinion and outvoted him and then he pursues his own opinion to zakir mamre but until he's argued with them until he's presented it to them he's not a zakir mamre he has to follow his conscience is this clear in other words like this the validity of the suck of the head the validity of the sanhedrin's vote it's it's it's only valid if they've heard the opinion of the objectors if they never heard his objection they never heard his claim they never heard his view then their vote is not quite perfect it's not complete right does that make sense right that's the same reason why when the sanhedrin when they're rendering opinions they're sitting there right who gives the first who who speaks first in the sanhedrin the most junior member why the most junior member because if the most senior member speaks first so the guy without all the gray gray hairs will say what do i know he's probably right so he'll suppress his opinion we don't want his opinion suppressed we wanted to express his opinion because only when the majority has heard the voice of the minority can the majority be considered valid and therefore he zazak once they've heard his claim and outvoted him he must have the humility to say okay there's there's there's 23 or 71 people just as smart as me they all just they heard what i said they disagree if he at that point pursues his own agenda he's a zakim mamre he's a rebellious elder but until that point he must follow his own conscience but again what we see from here is a major and fascinating point that the validity of an opinion it's not completely valid if you haven't heard the dissenting opinion right i'm convinced i'm right you know why i'm convinced i'm right because i never heard what you said i'm not interested in hearing what you said i'm not just listening to you so how do i know i'm right so there's part of it is that when we are involved in an argument and we often get involved in arguments it's important for us to try and to put effort into understanding what the other person thinks there's what we call nuance right it's a fascinating rashi in sevis the gemarang service talks about the fact that um that it's always there's a preference rashi says there's a preference if you've got a if you've got two amiroyum arguing about what atana said right in other words one says he said this the other side said that or you could say the two amaryam have an independent argument much locus in svara in logic with each other which is better which is better to say they have an argument with each other in logic or to say they're arguing about what someone else said so rashi says it's always preferable to say they're arguing in logic rather than they're arguing about what someone else said because when they're arguing about what someone else said he says one's true one's false one's ms one if they're arguing in svara in logic he says you know what people's minds see things differently logic sometimes in one case can be can lead me to this idea if it's a slight variation in the case it can lead to another idea he says there we'd say eluv they're both the words of hashem they're both the words of torah he says that's why we always have a preference to do that there's a in spora in logic in points which are nuanced it's you know we tend to go to the extremes right you listen to debates and not even debates but you listen to people talking right about issues like the recent uh uh overthrow of roe versus wade so so so some people say you're murdering babies some people say you're murdering women okay now what no one's you know what i mean let's be a little let's like back up a little bit right no one's advocating go out and kill kill women or kill babies like there's there's nuances here right halacha happens to be quite nuanced in this area yes there's an issue according to the rambam it's considered but there are other astronomy who say it's not there are other australians say it's there are some right we're showing him who hold the go in him who hold it as before 40 days maybe muta there's many different variations and what's considered the the danger to the mother is psychological danger uh considered a factor many post can say yes not over not everyone but i mean it's a nuanced idea right we shouldn't be immediately grasp the extreme in tanzania one of the things we saw which i spoke about was was a magnificent animal known as a warthog i'm sure you've all seen warthogs that i i typically like them that they're cute i don't know they get a bad name but so the the you know i was talking about the warthog because that you know there's a the warthogs get get infested by insects ticks and all types of insects but there's an animal called a mongoose who eats those insects so when the when the warthog gets too bothered if the warthog sees a a uh a group of mongooses not mongoose mongooses right he sees them then what he does is he walks over and flops down in the middle the mongooses swarm all over the warthog eat every single last insect from him everyone's happy the warthog comes off clean get old right the mongoose are full satiated everyone's happy so someone objected we're talking about the warthog to pig it's a double rock i said i said yeah i said we're not muslims that's what you're talking about i said look when we say the morale points this out when we say an animal is tommy do we mean that you have to stay away from it you can't look at it you can't go near it you can't use can you can you throw a football around made a pigskin right pigskin wallet is that okay yeah of course that's mutter there's no issue in using the skin of a warthog or a pig totally okay if you have a pastry brush they used to be made of pig bristles is that kosher my wife would kill me if i bought it into the kitchen but it's kosher totally fine 100 pig bristle pastry rush nowadays borax and we use silicon right fine but i mean that's fine so it's not haram haram means oh he just stay away no right the morale says everything in the world has different components when you say an animal is tommy it doesn't mean every single aspect of it is tommy if you touch a live at a live pig you don't get it's not thomas there's no tumor little cheretz which is dead yeah it could become tommy right i don't know i don't understand it right but it's not like so so it's nuanced he says when you say an animal is a toho animal does that mean every single part of the animal is okay no khalev dam giranashe there's a whole bunch of things which are asa and tommy in a taha animal so the morale says he says that's how we have to look at reality reality is complex he says when you have a macholicus he says one sage is looking at one aspect of their reality he says that is the essential primary characteristic of this animal is tommy and he's right are there aspects of it which are which are tied yes but the primary aspect of it is tommy and what's the primary component of this tahoe etc he says nefer you have a much locus and that's okay that is really okay the point is that when i am arguing with someone to understand that they may be looking at a different aspect of that same reality right you think of it this way right you could have different artists looking at one reality so so someone looks at this beautiful field all right and it might be the person looking at the field may be mozart and he may compose a beautiful concerto which just echoes the sound of nature and it's like eine kleiner music type thing or maybe vivaldi looks at the seasons and the the changing the seasons he composed the four seasons and etc or it may be among monet claude monet may look at this same scene and paint a beautiful impressionist painting of it and by the same token a shakespeare may look at that and write a sonnet about it right they're all describing the same reality but each one because of who they are and the way they think is describing a different aspect of that reality those are all legitimate it's not like you could say what do you mean right shakespeare's state of zoy how can what do you mean they're different aspects of the same reality right when we look at a reality we see different aspects of it i remember rav yoshi bear sullivan writes i i teach you why i'm contractually obligated to quote him once a month but anyway but he writes in in i was joking not really that's once every two months but anyway but in isha he has a story he's with his grandfather and they're sitting i think on a balcony somewhere i guess you know in litter right their balconies and litter who knows whatever they're sitting there looking and the sun's going down and he was a kid he was a little kid and he said wow what a beautiful sunset and club brisket he says it's nishkin sunset sashkiya you know he a little kid looks at the sun going down and says oh wow it's beautiful the sun's going down rakhine brisker looks at it and what he sees is every single halachic nafkamina of shikiya right on the other hand you know you could have lahavdil right there was a uh there was a a genius might have a buckminster fuller and he's sitting on a hill somewhere i forgot where it was and the sun's going down one of his students comes over and says what a beautiful sunset and he says not a sunset it's the earth turning the opposite direction right he's an astronomer so what does he see in this reality it's the earth rise not a sunset right okay right but what i'm pointing out here and this is the morale says and bear hagoyla because he was attacked by christian scholars said how can there be so many opinions in the gemara why they're always arguing with each other how can it be that the site how can you have taurus ms when how can you say taurus amos when there's all these hundreds of so many opinions and morale said what do you mean is the world true is the world a reality yeah can you see the world in different ways yes he says so yes as long as you know you're within certain rules but that's how we're looking at it and so what we understand is that and i want to give just like four five practical ways in which we can avoid this type of animosity which i think you've probably figured out from the from the macorus number one is listening to listen to the other person to give the other person a chance to say their piece very often this by the way there was i don't know who it was i don't know if it's a true story but there was a rebber who uh people came to him they have solemn bias problems the couple came to this they were arguing all the time he said here here's a he takes our little bottle i have special holy water from the balchemtov which that's fantastic he says i'm going to give this to you bottle to you he says as soon as you are about to argue each of you take a swig of the water and hold it in your mouth and look at each other for as long as possible i have tried this it's very effective i did it with vodka but it still works with anything right but so but what happens is sometimes just just instead of immediately reacting if you don't if you immediately react that's generally where the instinct takes over animosity takes over anger takes over if you wait if you wait count to ten right hold the water in your mouth for a while etc listen to the other person let them finish the sentence that does a tremendous amount to prevent instinct taking over right in a physical fight obviously you want instinct to take over you don't just stand there and say hmm shall i block that punch of course you should right but when as we talk about an intellectual argument intellect is associated with sticker it's associated with hamtana with waiting with patience with silence and so therefore the first and most basic rule to avoid animosity in arguments is to just wait and listen to the other person let them finish number one number two when you are doing this consider their view consider their view meaning is it possible that there's some merit in what they're saying is there anything right about what they're saying you never know right sometimes it may be right is there anything right something positive look try in your mind to see what there are what areas in which in which you in which they may be justified you don't have to agree with them people say oh they're coming from here they're coming from there that will help you to understand them a little better number three try always when you are responding try to respond with an area in which there is common ground and agreement right if i can if i'm arguing with someone and i can come and say look we both agree that we both agree that right that's always a great way to do it right because if we find an area which we both agree okay then okay this area agree you know someone wants you get this question often but uh tommy asked me i don't get it he says you have this mahloykas right massive khazanesh arguing about something as fundamental as electricity on shabbos you know it's famous says but maybe it's like okay so i said listen think of it this way there's a huge pyramid the base of the pyramid is the torah on top of that there's a torah sheba pair on top of that there's the mishnah the gemara et cetera et cetera at the very top of that there's a mishnah which says the arabic that malaka was our boy 39 all of that pyramid they agree on then you get you get further to the top of the pyramid there's an issue of boeing and binyan bikalim and and etc etc and then you get they agree on that right and then you get to the very cap of the pyramid that's where they're arguing but the truth is a true macholicus within torah that's how you have to think of it there's a huge pyramid of things in which they both agree think when i'm arguing vehemently with someone i have a friend as a rob in passaic we often uh we we phone each other every few weeks and and rant about something to each other right he says i'm his favorite apocalypse i say you're my favorite fanatic all right but we're good friends we're good friends but but can you even when we're arguing vehemently about some point in hush gotha etc right i you have to keep in mind that there's a huge pyramid of things in which we agree on we wouldn't be able to even have this argument if we didn't accept torah shiva torishabal pair right the methodology of the gemara and so on and so forth there's a huge area right competitions are only competitions if we agree to the rules as you know two guys get into the ring you know mma boxing etc etc right they're standing there right and the guy says you know hajime right he says start the fight the guy pulls out a glock 9 millimeter bam but will the referee say yes he's he won i mean legitimately the other guy is down that's true but but but arguments competitions and fights happen within a certain set of rules and techniques etc when we have the arguments within the gemara that's accepting certain principles certain rules certain sources and so on and so forth so if i am arguing with someone even if it is vehement it's always helpful for me to try to grasp where is the common ground right even if we're i remember i had a huge it was i was walking it was inherent off one of my kids i'm walking with a good friend of mine is rocha shiva now and we're arguing about some point in hilton shabbos right and it got heated yeah we were like what are you talking about there's like a it's ever says something like my what i remember one of my kids saying to my wife right right he said he said mommy mommy are they still friends right right i was still friends with so yeah we're still friends right but so but but again to keep in mind the fact that if we were able to argue about was about soy fed i remember it was about something skitter with artificial fabrics whatever right but i mean but to have such an argument requires massive amounts of agreement we have to agree on so much to have an argument i couldn't have that argument with a reform rabbi quotation marks i could not have that argument with anyone else right i could have that argument only with a jew who's committed to torah mitzvas etc etc it's the only one so the fact that i am arguing about this with this other person is actually evidence of the common ground that we have it's important thing to keep in mind number four never make the attacks personal in other words do not say to someone you are you can say your view is this i i this view seems to be this but but never it's never about the person as we call ad hominem attacks you can attack the views you can find refuge but but don't say right this is true in relationships as well you can talk about but don't attack the person and number five this is from the gemara the gemara says sign a lift rake i have litoine sorry i have sorry cyno lit and i have liffrock right if you have someone whose donkey needs loading up which is no favor to the donkey but it is a favor to the person who owns it and he's a person who you don't like you hate him the other person is someone you like someone you love and his donkey needs unloading which is double mitzvah hey you're helping the person b the donkey is being alleviated of pain right so the gomorrah says who should you help first the answer is the sauna the one you hate so gamora says why could they like to overcome the yates or horror so so there's a lot of discussion taisus already asked what do you mean what yay sahara the gomorrahim sakhim says the person that we're talking about that you hate is someone who is over serious available you're allowed to hate him whatever i'm not going to go into that tanya paragulama base discusses it has a beautiful shot but leaving that aside how does it work how do i overcome my yetzer horror so if destler says if desolate says beautifully and kunta said he says because when you do acts of kindness to someone you don't like you you become you're investing a little bit of yourself in the other person the more of yourself you invest in the other the little more the more unity there is the more you see a little bit of yourself in the other person right it works by the way if you like gardening i hate gut but if you like i like mowing the lawn gardening though but if you like gardening right you feel people feel affection love for their garden it's bizarre it's it's plants right the plants don't plants don't have emotions i'm pretty sure that right there they don't have emotional plants the answer is ravdesla says because you've invested yourself in it so it's a little bit of this it's it's a little bit of self-love right because you see some of yourself and the guy so invest yourself in those that you disagree with invest yourself in those that you don't like the gemara says kedai lakufas yitzra that will overcome the hatred and the animosity so that's a little bit of an introduction to the subject the rest is commentary as hillel said go and learn thank you very much for coming and for all the thousands who are watching thank you this is what i was told to believe but okay and thank you very much [Music] shame you can shoot terror most is boston like everybody has chicago rebecca inspiring joshua everybody said there's one thing we could all agree on as ghazal said tara can i get coulomb and there should be no disagreements about sponsoring this story called ignore eight six 718-851-865 one or email ist the shivanet.com or put an ad in the dinner journal and ignore tara's upcoming annual dinner in just a few short weeks and honor one of the 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