Anti-Semitism - How Do We Win? With Rabbi David Olesker (Ep. 236)

owski and welcome to the rabbi olowski show and whether you're watching with our friends over Toren time who are right now in the middle of a fundraising campaign and I urge everyone who can to participate and wherever you watch or listen to your podcast as always we are so happy to have you along for the experience and don't forget to like share and subscribe and we have another corporate sponsor finally everybody woke up you you know I got a couple of emails after our last uh Insurance uh um agency uh and people said well I didn't know that you could make corporate sponsorship sound like fun that's right and uh you'll be even more fun if you go and use their services and today we have another corporate sponsor for this episode sniper Studios if you plan on killing anybody and you want it filmed just kidding I'm kidding sniper Studios is the Premier destination for full scale Production Services now you may be asking yourself do I need fullscale Production Services I'm glad you asked 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and uh as always when there's something that I know I'm not qualified to speak about like let's say sparos so I bring in somebody who's a little bit more knowledgeable on the field and when I saw this I said to myself I would like to tap one of the most talented resources that are out there D Alesa has been fighting anti-semitism ISM on campus for well over 30 years I don't know how much I know 30 years I know for sure it's got to be well 35 years ago I heard you so it had to be at least 40 years yeah on campus and uh I thought let's bring him in and talk about what the problem is on campuses and how things have become so out of control today so D it Alesa welcome to the rabbi olowski show it's a pleasure to be here and it's a pleasure to have you and I guess I'm going to before we begin address uh the obvious elephant in the room and I know it's a little embarrassing uh to talk about but I feel like we just have to get it out there you're English I'm in recovery and and I happen to know for a fact that you're not even embarrassed by it I know this because I read an article that you wrote attacking Americans for getting braces and it's so interesting thing when they made um uh this movie Austin Powers which was supposed to be a takeoff on James Bond so he was supposed to be English and they gave him these terrible teeth so I immediately thought of you so uh thank you not because of your teeth but because of your outrage this American concept of having straight teeth and that's why no matter how much pressure I have received I refuse to fill the GFF in my I should think if David Letterman can have him I certainly can having some fun now anyway so uh so let's get a little background you're English how did you get into this you were doing this in in England English campuses as well 40 years ago uh more than 40 years ago it was worse on British campuses than it is here now no way U yeah um they were Banning Jewish student clubs from campuses based on what uh based on the idea that you at that time there was a Neo-Nazi party in Britain called the national front that was running in elections um and many well-meaning student governments adopted a policy of no platform for racists and fascists so they wouldn't allow the national front to uh operate on their campuses or to have events and then the UN passed a resolution saying Zionism is racism so they started Banning Jewish student clubs on the ground that they supported Israel and therefore they were racist organizations and WWE Rubenstein was the chaplain in Manchester he this was even before he was in Manchester when he was still in Glasgow and uh he has astonishing stories to tell about this and I think one interesting one is the it really shows sheds a light on what's Happening Now on campuses here as well he was uh I was there as well in Glasgow at a uh an event where someone was speaking about the tragedy of Palestine but this was in the days when the speaker would be a speaker from the Arab League and this guy turns up you wearing a a suit that would cost more than the National Domestic Product of several small third world countries you know and uh he speaks movingly about the uh the tragedy of Palestine and it goes to Q&A and this non-jewish student very obviously non-jewish student stands up in the audience and gets the first question and he says in a very broad class weian accent which I'll moderate so so you don't need subtitles he yeah I've got a question don't he talk to me about human rights you're from Saudi Arabia and in your country you kind of get a bloody drink and in front of a Scottish audience I was this was an absolute Clincher argument uh but I think it what did he say the guy had nothing to answer had nothing to answer um so I think it it demonstrates something that's true today as well that there is a vast gap between the way even the average student thinks and the self-proclaimed uh Defenders of Palestine are thinking um and yeah I've spent many years traveling around University campuses in North America and Europe and other places as well um and Berkeley right Berkeley California the place was any more leftwing would be in the Pacific um I I the first time I went there um they I I asked the students there on the spot you know what's it like is it very left wi here they said yes in certain departments but you go to the engineering department or you go to the you know the economics Department and and people completely ignore all the shtick they're only interested in getting on with their uh with the degrees and all the AAS that students are interested in doing when they're on campus that's but in order to count to this I mean it's overwhelming it's everybody like you they were blocking Jewish students from going to class they were there were professors who were separating the Jews in class you know things were outrageous now I know you have one method that I saw the first time I saw you which blew me away uh you got up there without a yamaka and you introduced yourself as Dr Philip Brook khid and you presented yourself as a Palestinian whose family had fled uh Palestine during the 1967 that was yeah and came to England and you grew up in England and you gave a the Arab presentation to a group of students was in or and they were they were ready to kill you they were so angry and the the most frustrating part was that they couldn't respond to anything you were saying was they didn't know how to answer anything and you were presenting this and then when they were really at an on a Razor's Edge you put on your yamaka and you said I'm really D alesco let's take a five minute break and then you came back and took apart all the things that you said which I cannot repeat right but I just remember there are techniques that uh for example I remember during the Lebanon war in 82 I was at the Yu seminar and I was supposed to be speaking about the situation in the Lebanon war in Israel so I said how are we as the Jewish Community going to punish Israel for what they're doing in Lebanon so these kids were kind of surprised I I was taking a leaf out of your book and uh and they said well the PLO wants to destroy Israel I said who said say it's in their Charter so I pulled out a copy of the PLO Charter and I said show me where who could find it it's like this big long thing with all this kind of stuff and uh I don't know if you've ever saw there was a video from The Babylon B where they were interviewing a Kamas guy and he says so I know this is a complicated issue and there's two sides you know what is it that you're really looking for because to kill all of the Jews so he says no no no I understand that you're pressed and therefore because of your territorial demands no no we just want to kill all of the Jews every Jew he says no no of course you don't mean that it's because I no no no here it's in my CH here I I'll send it to you it's right right here kill all the Jews and everyone and this guy is like trying to get around and he's like no no no he says but uh what are your other aspirations because we want to deal with the gay and lesbian population he goes oh we want to bring them to Gaza and push them off of buildings yeah look it's right in my chart so uh so the anti-intellectualism of this this mob mentality I don't I I don't even know how you counter it you can't the there you you can't reason with people who you know block traffic who stand outside of Jerry Seinfeld's shows and Shout him down who go and attack all of these people I I I don't where do you start it's it's so much which since you've been in this business so long I still remember when uh universities in the 1950s were places where you went and you went to class you did your homework you took tests you wrote reports right then in the 1960s there was this youth Rebellion there were stins there protests why didn't the schools just throw everybody out just say okay you got one hour to disperse or we're ging around with cameras and everyone who's out here is going to be expelled from the school so that that would have ended it well it it wouldn't have done because the 60s youth Rebellion especially in the United States was centered around the Vietnam War right um Bob Hope who used to entertain troops he once saw him interviewed he said he had a shtick that he did he would go into a hospital Ward full of wounded Vietnam uh soldiers and he said to guys I'm here to tell you America is 40% behind you uh so I he might have been overestimating it or underestimating it but it was certain a war that was not widely popular not entirely popular right um and so that issue the issue that really made within living memory Student Activity a big deal um was something that people didn't feel entirely justified in crushing well but you running a university you know I can't have a university if people are taking over the offices aren't going to class you know I I I just can't run a university this way so you want to go protest go off and protest on your own time make all the protests you want but you have an obligation to go to class and let the university function and somehow they just gave in to the students which I don't understand well it's not a new phenomena yeah uh yeah one of one of the other hats I wear is I'm I'm a guide at Yad bashem and uh last week I guided a group of American students who were here with a guided them around ym and one of the first things you see inside the museum is an exhibit on the book burnings that happened on German University campuses and people you know quite naturally assume that it was imposed by the Nazi government it wasn't it was organized by the student governments the elected student governments of the campuses the national uh socialist student organizations were the biggest group inside elected student governments and they were the people uh organizing the book burnings but was the University opposed to it the university again couldn't didn't feel it could be completely opposed to it because it was representing the popular will after all the national socialists had just been elected in a landslide election um mainly because they controlled it bet I'll bet you even though they were anti-semitic mobs and they were burning books they went to class um well they were German but but no it's not so it's not so simple I mean yeah we could go on a whole digression taking over the school to me is like the inmates in charge of the Asylum I don't understand the concept the inmates can take over the Asylum when they're on the same page as the wardens so how did that happen I mean didn't we have real University presidents who were believed in a university education or did they did they all go crazy first so first first of all you're looking at the end point of a decades long process here uh what people you know today are calling wokeism and in the recent past we call being politically correct and before that we called it being mindless leftist has been a ongoing process until it has become the the Orthodoxy if I can use that word of University academics at least in the you know the the social science departments and the uh and the softer departments I mean the students started demanding curriculum changes now how how if you're a student do you tell the teacher this is what you're going to teach me you're supposed to be a student so how do you have a right to dictate that so first of all I mean in very many instances they've taken their queue from academics who've told them this is what they ought to be doing and so I don't expect the academics and the administration to stand up against what they SES are espousing secondly um they want a quiet life you know they just want this to go away and it looks really bad in the fundraising videos to have you know policemen who look like they're in Alabama in 1966 rampaging around your campus cracking heads which is the alternative the alternative to having Anarchy and Jews being beaten up is the police coming in and using their Monopoly of legitimate force in a democratic country but you don't have to you could just go around and say to every student you have an hour to get out of here or you expelled from the University that would and then you wouldn't need the police you just go around and every single person say okay here's your letter we've written down your name if you're here in an hour then you are expelled from our University and don't pack your bags and go that's a lot of money to lose so that's what it is it's partially it's partially a lack of backbone it's partially that the uh Administration and the academics H haven't bought into the same Viewpoint that the students have they're marketing the same Viewpoint that the students have um and it's yeah it's hard to Buck the you know the common wisdom what everyone believes it's interesting Victor Davis Hansen said he's a professor uh that he says his contacts in the business World say that they are hesitant to hire graduates from Harvard and Colombia and they would rather take them from you know more traditional universities because they feel like they're getting more of an education uh so the students if they ever realize this they're going to realize it too late I mean they've been sold a bill of goods they're the ones who going to suffer from it I mean couple of yeah more than 10 years ago there was a terrible situation at Concordia University in Montreal where it was a preview of what's Happening Now Jewish students barred from campus Jewish students had to be escorted off campus by the police for their own protection um long ongoing program um and when the Jewish students tried to organize against this they found like that their biggest allies were the students taking real academic subjects technology students science students all the Asian students right who just you know their idea of like running wild was to go the chess club you know and they and and they were all concerned about the future employment um prospects and uh if I were advising um students on campus today that is one of the things I would be I would be very much uh urging them to do to build coalitions with other people on campus who don't want this who see that it's bad for them uh because M makes right if the only voice on campus is the anti-jewish voice then reluctantly or not the authorities will listen to it so how can we how do we have the ability to oppose this especially when we take into account that most them have no idea there was somebody who went around interviewing them he says the river of the sea which river which sea they didn't know people don't even know what the issues are they just Tak to the street they put on their Kia that they bought on Amazon and they and they just you know spout the the most horrible things which if they did this against gays or against blacks it would be a national uh you know uh Scandal but they're all spouting anti-Semitism and nobody cares well as one Administration figure put it it depends on context right right if the context is against you then people don't care why and it's it's not your grandfather's anti-Semitism uh the thing about anti-Semitism it's it's a mutating virus it manifests itself different ways and different periods in history so in the uh you know in in the 1930s uh the Jews were uh controlling finance and they controlling the media and the oh actually they're saying the same thing today but uh but they but now the issue is Jews are white and have white privilege uh again something interesting comes up my yadvashem work when I'm guiding non-jewish American groups around yadvashem there's an exhibit there on on Nazi racism um and the there's a famous Nazi propaganda publication called UNAM mench the subhuman and I asked them like who's the poster boy who's the guy in the cover of it and no none of know I mean this is the the Exemplar of subhumanity is a Russian because in the Nazi anti-semitic racist worldview you know you had Aryans and you had other you know white people were okay like Brits and French and Italians and then then you could became then it was subhumans and the subhumans were uh slaves and Americans in general for quite reasonable historical reasons tend to see race exclusively in terms of skin color unaware that there are other paradigms of race and other system RAC on the on The View when she says you know well Hitler wasn't wasn't racist [Laughter] right right it was man's inh Humanity to man right except that they didn't think we were men uh but uh it it you know that's what you've got I mean the fact that Americans have a have a very parochial view of what racism has been in history you know that's just a reality we have to deal with um It's a larger issue of education and you can talk about things like you know the the persecution of the Roma and uh and the cinti people the gypsies uh to try and open people's eyes to there being a wider context of racism but the way things are set up today Jews are white white is bad white is privileged if you you are brown skinned then you are inherently more believable more credible more worth worthy of sympathy and the fact that the majority of the population the Jewish population of Israel is of Darker complexion is simply lost on yeah because they're not dealing with the reality of the situation here that was the story you told about this Arab person who says I can't be anti-semitic I'm a Semite right and she had a brilliant response which I've never been able to say over uh I I I said I'm very very grateful to you for pointing out to us that you're not anti-semitic the the term anti-Semitism invent was invented by a 19th century German je hater called vhal Mah who didn't like the term Jew hated because it didn't sound anti- it didn't sound sufficiently scientific so he invented this term anti-Semitism um but it has nothing to do with Semitic peoples or Semitic language is um in fact a lot of the most virent anti-Semitism in the world today comes from people who are technically Semitic themselves but I'm very glad for you you very glad you told us you couldn't possibly be anti-semitic because otherwise given all the terrible things you said about Jews we might have made the the mistake of thinking you actually were anti-semitic so thank you for the clarification and he went right over this guy no he had this this phrase that he used he says so to refer to it other Semitic people is anti oh right it's you're being anti-semantic anti-semantic right if you look up the meaning of anti-Semitism in the in the dis means hatred of Jews that's nothing with Jewish uh with Semitic language or Semitic racist so I accuse you of being anti-semantic right and uh you great line it's not original to me I think I st it from Samuel Goldman but uh it the interesting thing is I was doing this on University campus in Britain uh and again the situation in Britain was worse than it was in America I got a huge laugh from the average student in the audience who are open to hearing a different Viewpoint they're not all sold on this you know we'll use the Contemporary term woke uh Viewpoint right but today if you were to go on to a campus and try to counter these arguments you'd be shouted down mhm they'd protest they would they would just they wouldn't allow you to speak how in England they let you speak at least uh yeah why because in that particular instance for example I was uh in contact with the campus Administration in advance and arranged to have security laid on um had a I was in a debate uh in Toronto once same thing I arranged with um the you myself and the students who were bringing me in uh we arranged with the campus Administration that they should have extra security and mounties uh no no it was uh it was I justs of the no but it was uniformed police in the hall and there was one guy on the front row who I thought he was trying to intimidate me was really like gazing at me very intently at everything that I said and I'm not going to be intimidated so it finishes up and uh you know people come up and want to speak to you and this guy comes up to me interesting I had an English accent uh he comes up to me says I'd like to shake your hand I said oh did you did you like what I had to say he says very much very much I said so what brought you here he says oh I'm an undercover police officer I'm here to protect you so you know you can't always tell right you got this guy could he fited in very well I look at these videos of of conservative speakers on campus and you know what they're subjected to you know is just is just unbelievable I don't know how they get through it look you know lail I don't want to compare but we in Israel have a certain uh problem that we face of people who don't like us uh amazing yeah and uh especially you you're so likable I don't they're also not willing to listen they're also willing to listen so what do we do I saw I'm y once in Hebrew University yeah and these people just came in the room and just kept shouting and shouting the other students were like just just leave we want to hear what he has to say you know and they wouldn't stop and he just sat there he put out the video of it he was just sitting there smiling waiting you know to speak and they would not allow him to speak it went on for like an hour so I I wasn't even talking about people like that I'm talking like you know guys with colash rifles and missiles oh the ones trying to kill us yeah yeah okay so you know definitely one way of making a point yes at least it shows your commitment um so you know our response to that is not to say oh you know please just you know leave us alone we have to take appropriate measures to deal with a threat that we face and I'm I I tell students uh around the world that you know you don't have to pushovers you have to be willing to take whatever measures are legally uh legitimate to protect your right to speak and don't expect other people to do it for you you're going to but at this point I feel like Aragon at the gates of Mordor and a gazillion Orcs are coming out H how there's no way to if they don't destroy the ring they're all going to die that's obvious so over here you go into campus and you're facing this kind of a mob and no one's going to listen to you and no one's going to let you speak where do you get where do you get your message in there how do you get it in so you are clever and that you're able to present the ideas but the presentation of ideas only work of people are willing to listen that's why what I find amazing is Joe Biden is being heckled by the pro Palestinian people call genocide Joe Etc Trump doesn't have that right Trump just had a rally with like tens of thousands of people New Jersey nobody was heckling him right you know um there's a there are reasons that I understand the mechanism of how Trump organizes ises but to return to your Biden needs those people because otherwise there'd be nobody there so to into your analogy from The Lord of the Rings you can tell aragan wasn't Jewish because if he had been Jewish you know all those you know hordes of Orcs would have come out and would have raised his hand dramatically and a little guy with a briefcase would come out and say I'm a lawyer and I've got a writ you know uh what Jews are uh striking back they are bringing legal cases against University administrations because you have to make the university administrations pay a pay a price for giving in to the anti-semites so University Administration s are you know they're giving into these anti-semites for a variety of reasons we've discussed but one of them is because it's a path of least resistance right we have to be willing to make it something that it's easier to resist because the the penalty for giving to into these people is is going to be costing the university big bucks but it's a joke when you see that when anybody uh you know Donald Trump says anything he's accused of being an anti-semite this accused of being an anti-semite and here you see the whole left wing spouting the most basic anti-semitic stuff and no one's saying anything well the outrage all of a sudden everyone calling people anti-semites and they'll still turn around to the right and say oh the white suem are anti-semitic or if you criticize uh what's his name the the guy who funds all the uh Soros Soros you're an anti-semite so you know I people used to ask me you know if if I felt comfortable bringing up a family here in uh in uh in Israel and I said you know yeah there isn't another Middle East that I can go to this is the reality that we're facing here that you have to realize that is a reality you're facing in North America and fetching about it isn't going to change it so what do you do so I I'm saying I understand you can go after the universities but everybody in the street I for the life of me I could not understand this concept of ripping down the pictures of the hostages when they would doing that what was your point they're not hostages we made it up you don't care about the little children and the elderly who were ston like what's your point and you see these videos of people who are doing it and they can't even explain it themselves it's like this this this base anti-Semitism that that that doesn't make any sense why rip down a picture of a hostage because two reasons one they understand that it actually does elicit sympathy for Israel and Je so people will write them down for that that's enough reason to do it we don't want anybody uh successfully eliciting sympathy for Jews in Israel and the other reason which I think for most of the people doing this is more important is that politics is tribal My Tribe doesn't like this now okay I'm not so high up on the tot and tole I know everything that the tribe is supposed to know but I know my tribes against us so I'm against it and uh you tribal politics isn't limited the left it applies to the right as well but the people that we need to convince are not part of the tribes the people we need to convince are the people in the middle who are just looking on and saying the these guys are crazy the people we need to convince are the ones who for example are the University students who are going to be tired with the brush of you went to a crazy school the people we need to convince are that's going to take years till they face years to get here it took decades to get here so you know that's the reason they were doing this against blacks or against gay this would be the biggest outrage in society and you're allowed to attack attack blacks and that's what they said to these University presidents who testified in Congress and says what if it was again what if you transgendered somebody you fired someone gender so you you fire them and and here people going for genocide and you say it's got to be in context so it's like this this this anti anti-Semitism is in it's cool and and it's hard to bucket when it's when it's not it's not even a problem you call somebody an anti-semite like well yeah so duh so what do you want me to tell you the world's not fair right but I don't see how we supposed to undo this so you you undo it you undo when I when I was watching you uh where you were able to engage you engage in a battle of ideas you engaged in where you were able to bring across the other message today except for Douglas Murray who single-handedly is trying to fight the gazillion Palestinian spokespeople you know and finklestein and these other characters you know how do you how do you stand up to all of them so you the Practical answer is you don't undo a process of decades in a couple of sound bites so that's it so right now we just got to be patient uh we don't just have to be patient but we do have to be patient there are things we can do right now and I'll I'll talk about them in a second but a solution to this isn't going to come about overnight we have ignored it for decades and now we're paying the price for it um the time to have got people fired for having anti-semitic views on campus was 35 years ago um and yeah if we didn't do it then then we're paying the price for it now okay let's start now well the people suggest it's the they're getting funding from the from the Arabs uh countries that is fueling this uh right absolutely I mean Qatar isn't just a problem you have when you have a cold uh Qatar is a major fund of uh of Education in North America as is China for example so you know I think there's China is anti-israel no no but it is theoretically a potential rival let's put it this way to the United States and it's it's it's injecting a lot of money and a lot of views into American education and there is a constituency out there that can understand that that is not an America interest and whereas they might not be particularly concerned about Jews they might be concerned and it might be relatively easy to make them concerned about foreign funding of American academic institutions and once you've raised that you're not talking about Qatar you talk you're not talking about Iran you're talking about any foreign funding so you know look I I talked about how bad it was more than 40 years ago British University how is it now in England uh it's not as bad as it is in the US is that amazing right and and there's more Arabs in there's more Muslims in called London stand you know right uh I'll tell you why it's not because of the work that we did 40 years ago now we had things a little bit easier for us in the UK because being Brits everything is very centralized there is one Jewish student Organization for the entire country there is one student Organization for the entire country and it happened to be at that time that the Jewish student organization and the national Union of students their offices were literally next door to each other one was at 1 to2 Ensley Street the other was at 3 to Four endsley Street and we had very good relations with the people who ran the national un students and because we lobbied people on a high level yeah in that context it was high level uh and and we got them on our side that was we were able to structurally change the setup uh so that um they introduced rules saying that if you banned a Jewish student Club from your campus they would kick you out of the national Union of students MH so you don't have that same kind of centralization in the mention this because I was being interviewed for a job to I was being pressured to take a job in England to start a youth organiz gation and they said but we're going to have to work around the existing organization because there's already a major Jewish organiz I don't want to mention any names major organization and it has a Youth Organization and it's not efficient and people are wasting money and they don't have the fund so we have to work around them so being an American I said so why don't you just like you know break down the doors and and fire them all and like you could see around the room there was like this audible gas and finally one person said this is England we don't break down the doors of 150 year old institution and throw the Rascals out we have respect for tradition I was like that's crazy I'm an American burn it to the ground and start over right and so that's it that that work to your advantage we don't have that in America you don't have that in America but you have other things that work for your advantage like you know lawsuits the uh you know people are bringing lawsuits against some uh academic institutions today to make them pay for discriminating against Jewish students oh we're not discriminating yeah well we'll see you in court right and guess who has better lawyers you know Jackie Mason says every Jew wakes up in the morning and says who can I sue should be able to sue somebody but you mentioned one thing I wanted to go back to before you you suggest Solutions and that is you mentioned how it's not just the left it's on the right now the Republican party over the years has always been very pro-israel more so than the Democrats which has been soft and now is moving more and more towards the Arab C but uh I mean there are those who would suggest that Donald Trump was not only the best American president for Israel he was the best Israeli Prime Minister for Israel so he was so he was more pro Israel than Israel he was they he was moving ahead of them he recognized Gaza he moved the the and you know and it was uh it was amazing um but uh now there are voices on the right I'm thinking Tucker Carlson I'm thinking um uh what's her name the uh the the Candice Owens I'm thinking um uh um this Patrick Ben David you know certain other voice on the right who are becoming somewhere between ambivalent to hostile towards Israel H where's that coming from why you surprised I'm surprised because for years they used to be the ones who spoke up the loudest in defense of Israel as opposed to the Democrats who were wishy-washy at best well look I don't want to argue about who's older here but we both got a few white hairs I can remember when the political right in America was hugely influenced by Arab oil money right right but that goes back to the 50s and 60s I don't think in the 70s and ' 80s you know what times change and one thing we as Jews should realize is we have no permanent friends whoever it is who's supporting us this year can turn against us next year I feel like it was Lord Asquith but you would probably know better who said England has neither allies nor enemies only National interest right right answer it's I think it might have been Lau but it's it's a popular he wouldn't have said it about England it's it's it's a truism and it and Jews don't have friends with exceptions I mean you know again wearing my adem hat there are 28,000 people who risk their lives to save Jews that we know of during during the Holocaust what's so interesting is that through all of this Germany has been very supportive of Israel and just now they said that they will honor the icc's request to arrest netan if he comes right so which seems like a real serious change no you have to understand that they signed off on uh on on the treaty that credit the ICC they're required by the treaty obligation to arrest anybody in ic gives uh an arrest warrant on uh the US and Israel are not signatories and therefore you the US doesn't have to but you that means that the the Germany has to arrest Putin if he comes to uh to Germany you know they might not put a huge amount of effort into it and they probably won't put too much effort into arresting Netanyahu either but they're required legally by the treaty obligations to do which is why the whole thing was such a hop by the I I listened uh a couple of days ago um to the BBC you know and I'm I I I feel I haven't you're real glutton for punishment well I haven't quite got my daily days of anti ISM I listen to the BBC and they interviewed a lawyer who's involved in the international court of justice case not the ICC case the international court of justice case against Israel about the ICC case and uh it was astonishing what the guy said because this is guy is not pro Israel he says well look um the prosecutor in the National Court in the international uh Criminal Court uh could not just go after Hamas because then he he'd be criticized for not being evenhanded uh so he had the option of either going after nobody or going after both so he quite wisely chose to go after both and this is a guy he's a legal commentator uh he's a top notot International lawyer and he's saying yeah don't worry it's not really about the law it's about politics uh but it if the I goes ahead and issues the arrest warrants that means that countries around the world are legally obligated to arrest Israeli leaders if they come there now don't worry you know if the Hamas leadership goes there they'll get arrested as well but you know they're they're trying their frequent F mileage isn't quite as good as our leaders because they can't go anywhere because they'll be killed so you know I'm tell you it it's not a fair World Jews have been living with anti-Semitism for Millennia but I can't remember anything like this in my lifetime well at our age our memory starts to fail us I'm just saying was when I was growing up yeah when I was growing up in the 60s that I have uh people who would throw pennies at me yeah you know yeah but that was usually during a lecture and I collected them at the end you know but I've had anti-semitic comments or things like that but this kind of mobs walking through the street of Sydney chanting gas the Jews right I ever think I would see something like that in my lifetime well you know we have seen it in our lifetimes we've seen it on the political fringes right but now it's mainstream so is it mainstream it's certainly more mainstream than it was when it was the American Nazi party screaming it but I I still maintain there is a vast body of opinion out there that is not against us it is the silent major majority as people say and our job how do we how do we energize them I we have to energize them by first of all addressing them by first of all addressing them I've been I've been inter interrupting the whole time which is one of the comments I get when I have a guest they say why don't you let anybody else talk and I say you know that reminds me of a story but anyway so you you you said there are some solutions and I this is what I'm this is what I find intriguing because it's I'm looking at at Blackness and I don't see any way out of this can you say that um oh I'm at the gates of Mordor that's what I'm saying I see gazillion Orcs coming out and I don't see what I'm supposed to do okay so there's your answer I can take down a troll here and there but that's about the best I can do the the people who fought the trolls of Mordor were leading a grand Coalition they got together all the various people had an interest in helping them and that's what we have to do we have to put together the Fellowship of the Ring uh and get people who have reasons to support us not just because they love Jews because that's only enough for a tiny handful of people but I'll give you an example BDS right boycott divestment and sanctions there are people braying today on University campuses the the university endowment should disinvest from Israel sell all this Investments That Israel well you think Harvard that used to have limits on how many Jews could go there that's when their endowment uh dates from they put their money into investments in Israel because they love Israel they put them they put it into investments in Israel because their investment advisers told them there will be a good return so if they are told by idealog sell your Investments they're being told to lose money okay so what I've told students on campus is go to the janitorial staff the the lab assistants all the people who don't have tenure on campus and say look these pampered tenur professors want you to lose your jobs because when the university starts having less income it's not going to be the tenur professors who whose jobs are going to go it's you and if you're a leftwing academic or anti-israel person on a campus then stand up up against the labor unions on campus and see how stupid you look on top of which there there another constituency that the university has to pay attention to because they don't want strikes if you think you know um students camping out and asking for uh gluten-free food is disruptive of campuses the janitorial staff going on strike is a much bigger deal so you make coalitions with other student groups on campus and I mentioned a couple like the uh the serious students who are involved in in serious subjects do you want an yeah do you want to be employed after this it's in your interest to get rid of these people um off campus you have to find people who you can make alliances with without convincing them you don't need to convince them that we're right because that takes time and it takes effort it takes the willingness to listen you have to convince them that their needs and our needs overlap and we're willing to support them if they're willing to support us that is the shortterm solution to dealing all these problems the long-term solution is to win the argument now interestingly enough and I I think you must have seen a lot of this uh you're the C of guy I'm not right but uh we used to say in the student organization in Britain what we need is a good pogram because yeah there is nothing that make Jews come out of the woodwork and realize are Jewish than anti-Semitism on campus now we don't want people being beaten up we don't want people being you know killed H but when Jews are confronted with the inescapable fact that they're Jews where am Kash there's a lot of secular Jews who are having a period of re-evaluation through this I mean I have my daughter works on NYU campus and she says you know the reaction of the Jewish students when they realize here they were good liberal students in all the liberal causes and now they're the ones who are being persecuted for just for the fact that they're Jewish forces them to re-evaluate who they are right they say the definition of a neoconservative is a liberal who's been mugged right so Jewish students all across North America and the Western world are being mugged every day right and that's going to make a big difference in terms of I me of these Jewish uh donors pulled out of these universities right which is making a a dent on them and they're going to feel it but even you know the uh Limitless wealth of the Zionist Lobby doesn't really match up to Qatar so I mentioned earlier you can so you have to pass a law that there's no foreign right and and you can't you can't get a law like that passed because it's good for the Jews right right you have to do it because it's good it's it's is going to steal your it's going to steal your technology it's going to it's going to indoctrinate your students to be pro-chinese I mean good grief you know I saw a clip of a biopic about Bruce Lee made in contemporary China and the whole uh ethos of the of the of the of the movie was I am Chinese you know he's he it's Chinese patriotism it's ch Chinese nationalism which is in reality nothing that Bruce Lee was ever in the least interested in it came from Hong Kong KO he worked with the Green Hornet yeah it was Japanese at that point he was good at it he yeah yeah but you see he beat up Robin oh boy you see colonialism it was forced into a subservient Mo role to a white man though well the thing is that usually the sidekick is nowhere as good but here like Batman and The Green Hornet are these two like middle-aged guys sort of like punching each other and KO was just beating Robin all around the room it was just it was sad to watch anyway and Bert wood once said he didn't get a stunt Doo so Bruce Lee actually just beat him up so you see you do remember the distant past I mean that was important things like Batman that I remember but uh you know I mean I just remember you know there would be anti-Semitism but it didn't have the social veneer that it has now there was no Tik Tok and Facebook which was glorified somebody said to me and I don't know but they said to me you watch these clips from people like Douglas Murray or or or um or Ben Shapiro people like this he says there are thousands of sites with tens of millions of views that are all anti-semitic that everybody's watching and you how you think that you're you know 100,000 people who are watching uh Doug Murray has a chance against those tens of millions who are watching all this terrible anti-Semitism so that is a very valid point but not quite as valid as people think it is because you're not watching those anti-israel sites unless it's to do research one of the problems about social media and it don't it existed before there was social media is that we live in Echo Chambers we watch things that we agree with correct right and there are lots of people out who you know surprise surprise don't like Jews and watch things they disagree that they agree with what everybody else watching apart from c videos now we need to find ways to reach the people who are not already committed to one camp or the other well though they obviously have a certain sensitivity to our side if they're watching cats you're right because if it's cats or it's Cohen or it's Goldberg look I I'll just give you one final point that the late Robin Williams yeah uh you believe what the kazal say about some people Kon Al he was apparently once interviewed on uh on German television on a talk show and they asked him Mr Williams they say we geres have a problem with humor do you think that's true and if so why and Robin when said it's because you killed all the funny people I I we have a secret weapon we're funny and we can make fun of these guys and they are Dow and boring and uh the uh they think everything depends on cont was just speaking at a commencement address and and he said you know people talk about privilege like it's a bad thing everybody has privileges he says I'm a Jew from New York that's an advantage if you want to be a comedian gives you a leg up on other people you know but uh okay so as we conclude a simple person like me and the tens of thousands of people who watch this show what can we Lisa do at this point besides try to stay safe um I wouldn't necessarily talk so much about trying to stay safe on the contrary so we should go out there and confront these mobs no you should make you should take every opportunity you can without being aore to mention something about Jews and Israel and the current situation you know I was I I went to Britain uh in October I went for my nephew's Kasa and I'm coming out of a train station in leads I'm waiting for my Uber a lot of Arabs in leads uh Muslims not Arabs the and uh this obviously non-jewish guy who was bigger than me walks up says can I tell you something I said yeah whatever you want you know he says every right thinking person in this country is behind you and your people and I I shook the guy's hand I said thank you and thank you for telling me that but I want to ask you to do something tell other people that as well we can die from Silence yeah and if we aren't telling at least one person a day that it's not just bad for us it's bad for them right then we are complicit in our under so we have to tell them listen you know if if they come after the Jews you won't have any lawyers you won't have any accountants you won't have any doctors and there'll be no wholesale so ask yourself if that's worth it your own personal benefit to the heart of the matter as usual I just noticed that was the second time you were confronted by a scary looking person who actually was in on your sorry I've got a very long list of all right well unfortunately uh we're out of time for now and uh there's so much more to talk about and we'll have to have you back here on the rowski show but for now uh if you want to find out more about the uh show you can go to my website ri.com you can make a comment you can watch any of the other material there or read any of the other material that's there you can sign up for one of our online shur and you could sponsor an episode sponsor a question and answer and so until next time I am dski I'm David oesa don't get us confused and that I have to say that that's the the the the most important point is how often you and I get phone calls for the other person because he's D Alesa on rovi and I'm dski on rovi and uh the first time we ever met it was because we been double booked at the [Laughter] doctor and so we are we are the D O's and until next time this has been the RAB owski show it's 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