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An Introduction to Chametz and Matzah By Rabbi Yitzchak Breitowitz
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Delivered 23 Adar II 5784 / April 2, 2024 www.ouisrael.org facebook.com/ouisrael #OUisrael #torah #judaism #torahlectures #halacha #pesach #passover #matza
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Auto-generated transcript. Not time-synced to the video.
okay uh good morning everybody uh hope
you're well uh first let me announce I
for some reason I often forget to
announce the people who dedicate the
share uh this share for the entire
year sponsored by rever F and Sharon
Alman in memory of their parents Edith
and Riner
Alman uh and their son Rao Alman
again we're very very
appreciative of the T and may it be
a uh for both the parents and uh and
their
son go wait for the
microphone
um I didn't see it oh I'm sorry is this
it yeah oh
okay
this is what I wanted to show you
about I'm this is I brought
filling this
Isel and this is the
source so if you want to use it in sh
thank you thank you thank you so much
thank
you
this
[Applause]
okay all right I hope uh people can hear
me with this I'm not used to the mic so
much
okay okay so uh now of course we're
after porm and
we are approaching PES rapidly I hope
for most people that's joyous for some
people it might be panicky uh maybe a
combination of of both uh remember our
basic unit has been discussing the
various mitzvos that are connected
to and we've been spending a few weeks
on P and on um and Onin today we're
going to actually start with some of the
PES itself and I want to talk about mat
and um probably today most of what I'll
say will be familiar to you so we're
going to maybe start easy and then it'll
get a little more complicated as we
approach PES uh first everybody knows uh
the basic rule of pesak is very
simple bad mat good uh and we know that
the prohibition of is a very very unique
Prohibition in a number of ways some of
them are Torah distinctions and some of
them are rinic distin
as a Torah distinction there's obviously
many many foods in the Torah that you're
not allowed to eat I'm not allowed to
eat I'm not allowed to eat certain
forbidden fats but number one is not
only forbidden to eat but is also
forbidden to derive benefit from so for
example you wouldn't be allowed to sell
on PES for money or even feed to your
animal animals have no prohibition of
eating the dog is not over anything but
I I am getting benefit by feeding my
animal and that's so that's
called but then even that's not so
unique there are a number of other
things that
are when meat and milk are cooked
together not only can you not eat it but
you're not even allowed to feed it to
your
animal fact that was a sh a number of
years ago about forget about PES about
dog food a lot of dog food are mixtures
of meat and milk they put meat and milk
in it so the question is if
B how can I have B dog food now the EMS
is like this if the meat is horse meat
it comes from a non- kosher source so B
does not apply uh with the meat of a
non- kosher animal pig or whatever it
would be but if it's a more high-grade
dog fruit that uses beef even though the
beef is not Kosher because it wasn't
Sheed this is an important distinction B
does not apply to the meat of a non-
kosher animal but B does apply to the
meat of a kosher animal even though it
wasn't Sheed so if it's beef mixed with
milk you actually do have a Shila but a
lot of times it's powdered milk so some
say that's only a rabic decree and
therefore
it's might be so there different Shas
for various reasons most of the dog
foods out there uh areally permitted to
give to your animal all I'm saying is
that just
like but what is really unique about is
that not only are you not allowed to eat
it and not only are you not allowed to
get benefit from it but you're not even
allowed to own it you are not allowed to
own on P and this is the meaning of two
La in the
Torah shall not be seen by
you and it should not be found by you
now even though literally if you read
the PK literally it might actually say
I'm matter low to even look at but
understand from the word a very
important rule that it is prohibited for
you to
own but if it's that belongs to somebody
else that is not your AA per se so is Us
in possession ownership and not only uh
eating and getting benefit and that is
why of course uh you either have to eat
your before PES or destroy your before P
or sell your to a guy and we'll talk
about that more but the purpose of
is that you should not own now those are
rules those are rules however M there's
some extra rules and one of the most
famous is that if was owned by a Jew
during pesak which involved a
Prohibition then even after pesak no one
is allowed to eat or derive benefit from
this is
called
that was owned by a Jew any Jew during
PES is forbidden forever even after PES
to eat or derive benefit from and hence
we always have this problem can it's
less of a problem the rabut sells
virtually
all in all stores but in America it's
always a problem this mad rush to figure
out which supermarkets are owned by goam
primarily and which are owned by Jews
and uh it's always a problem sometimes
people are sitting Rabon or sitting
around looking at Boards of directors if
they have Jewish sounding names it's
it's a little bit of a crazy thing um
but uh I'll get into that a little later
maybe I don't I'm just want to give this
is only introduction today but the isode
of why you have to get Kates from a
non-jewish store or a Jewish store that
sold its Kates to p is otherwise
it's p until an amount of time has
elapsed where there is been a turnover
so whatever bread or cookies or macaroni
you're getting already came in after PES
now the truth of the matter is the
problem is actually much more
complicated than people think because it
is not only a matter of the retail store
it's a matter of Distributors and all
the way up so even if for example your
local Jewish Supermarket didn't get the
macaroni till after pesak but who owned
the macaroni you know where was it if
the if the distributor was Jewish this
is a very big problem with liquor
especially uh most liquor uh bourbon
Scotch uh is made from fermented grain
barley or corn or whatever or corn is
kidney is but barley is certainly Mish
and uh it it often is warehouse for many
many
months so even if your Jewish liquor
store you know is non-jewish maybe
during PES it was owned by a Jew so the
OU has done a lot of work in trying to
identify
Distributors and different types of
issues so it's important to check that
but that is a draan and it is important
to understand that the eer of eating and
getting benefit and owning Kates is only
during P under Torah
La is and based on a canas it is based
on a fine on a punishment because of the
transgression of
balal since there was a transgression in
that ownership the wanted to kind of
punish or penalize the violations of
those Halas in the hope that that would
prevent their reoccurrence in the future
yeah wonder whether like some people who
sell
from somebody else after PESA will say
oh that was sold over PESA yes and then
they
won't yeah yeah so we we'll again today
is not about let me just mention that
although technically obviously if your
is owned by a there's absolutely no
problem but there are people who are
critical of the formalist the proformer
nature of other there are people who
don't like communal
institutional mates because they say
everybody knows it's a fake everybody
knows it's a joke everybody knows you
don't expect a go to show up in your
basement and take all of your bread and
everything else and therefore there are
some people I am not one of them but
there are some people who basically take
the position that they don't Rec
recognize the
communal as being valid therefore it is
still owned by the Jew therefore it will
still
be in especially you will find people
who don't like actually goes back a
little bit to the Von so there actually
is Source about it so if you m sell your
to a if you have a a next or neighbor
you give him the he takes it out and you
know you're not going to get it back
after pesak everybody would say that
that's good that's not the question but
the notion of I keep it in my basement I
keep it in my cabinets and uh this is a
just a kind of a fictitious transfer uh
and I understand I'm going to get it
back afterwards there are those who uh
are kagar they
criticize that particular practice
that's why there are many raban many
raban not not all who even if they sell
they will not sell what is called mean
they'll sell mixtures of things of with
other things but they won't sell bread
they won't sell cookies they won't sell
things that are 100% Kates because they
feel that we shouldn't rely
on for things that are
M but again this is only because of the
formalistic nature of if you m would
sell your to a guy then certainly
there's not going to be a problem yeah
what's the system been in the
supermarket
no no so that that that's exactly the
issue the issue is that if you're buying
a bakery goods from a jewishly owned
actually I'll talk about that in a
moment too a jewishly owned store that
did not sell itses uh during pesak you
are not allowed to buy Thea products
until enough time has elapsed that there
would be a turnover and the that you're
buying was produced after PES now
different product s have different
turnover times uh for fresh bread the
turnover time tends to be very short a
few days other products you may have to
wait till LBA om or even later so you
know it depends on the store it depends
on the product it may depend on the
country but yeah you got to be careful
in as I say
in this tends not to be a problem
because virtually any store will have
a unless you don't hold of the rabut
which I don't want to get into that
issue but the raban does sell the to
virtually all stores now one very
fascinating issue I'll just mention
again I I didn't really want to talk
about M that much but one very very
fascinating issue that comes up a lot
and some people use this as an attack
on is okay um I'm a rabbi of a I get the
Jewish store to sell its but the guy is
not religious the guy doesn't really
care and the guy is not going to sellit
if in any way it inconvenience is him or
sty the operation of the business so he
says listen you can sign I'll sign that
little document that this guy owns my
com but I will keep my store open during
pesak I will sell everything in the
store and I will keep the profits of
that store I mean don't think in any way
I'm going to hand the profits over to
the non-jew in other words business as
usual he officially signs the paper and
then nothing happens so there are those
who are argue that's obviously not a
valid sale and if it's not a valid sale
because he doesn't intend to sell it to
the guy then then anyes that was owned
by the store during PES will
be now this is a very very common
problem in a lot of uh neighborhoods I
mean including I remember in Silver
Spring itself uh there were Jewish owned
stores that were willing to
sign but it it had absolute Ely no
meaning whatsoever in terms of how they
conducted their business so here it's
important to know a very very uh
important Pak of rosha Feinstein which
not everybody did agree with but this
was Rosas Pak Rosas Pak says Hey the guy
sold theit if he continues to sell it to
the general public he is over on Gaza
he's stealing from a guy but just
because he's stealing from a guy doesn't
mean the sale of the Kates is
invalid yeah he has a sin a store that
continues to sell Kates that has already
been sold to a guy is stealing from the
rightful owner of that Kates which is
the guy but we're not going to make the
argument that because he's continuing to
sell ketes to the public he didn't have
intention to sell the so this is a
tremendously important leniency for uh
at least American on him because we were
often confronted uh with that type of
situation now now again obviously
obviously if the rabbi has uh any leeway
or any uh any
influence the rabbi should try to
structure the that uh this doesn't
happen or whatever it would be uh but if
B there's only one store servicing a
small community and this is the most
that the r is able to negotiate with the
store so there is the pakur MOS
Feinstein to be so this is an important
for at least to be aware of but again as
I say our purpose today is just to bring
out the central concept
of
and is a it is not a but it is a a
penalty because of Thea transgression
of
which is commonly referred to in Hebrew
is meaning don't own during P that's the
Torah prohibition if you own that during
P you have a everybody has
a
yeah yep you you got a real real problem
that's actually very very very excellent
and once again who are involved
in have to be very very particular about
this because the is a person cannot sell
that which he does not yet own I can't
sell you what I will inherit from my
father I don't own it yet that's
called so when a store Jewish store
owner sells it to a guy that can only
cover thees in the store at the time of
the sale and yeah and even if we follow
R moshe's leniency that he continues to
do business with it it's still a valid
sale and therefore I could buy that
after PES okay that's from K but that
would not apply to new deliveries of
that came in during PES because they
were not covered by the sale because of
D so one of the things again try to do
their best is that they try to stipulate
that uh no new deliveries in other words
they try to arrange it that whatever you
need for the week of pesak will be
delivered before pesak and warehouse and
therefore covered by the and there'll be
no new deliveries of of and what do if
they doer well then you have to you have
to follow the default position of
waiting to L B me meaning you have to
you may have to treat it as if the kit
wasn't sold now if the kit wasn't sold
that doesn't mean you can't buy from the
store forever it means you got to wait
until the stuff that came in during
pesak would be turned over and replaced
by other deliveries again I think the OU
generally recommends just as a general R
I think LBA om again these are kind of
arbitrary dates but you pull it out of a
hat almost but they recommend LBA om as
the appropriate waiting period yeah
well that would be possible I understand
that but but the issue is if you're
talking about a non-religious store they
they they'll want to sell the deliveries
meaning to say uh I mean you're right
theoretically if they'd agree to that
fact that's a problem that we might face
let's imagine you get in the mail
sometimes you might get uhat in the mail
during PES again not so much in Israel
but in America for some reason u a new a
new type of Cheerios comes in or
something and they send you a little a
little box of
Cheerios uh in the mail right so
what's right so uh one of the Aus is
that you can have intention I have
intention not to acquire this and then I
can throw it in with the that I sold but
again not not that it's n in the sale it
is not n in the sale but just to get it
out of the way I can throw it into the
and then I can use it after PES because
I never acquired owner ship and if I
never acquired ownership there was no
transgression
of and if there was no transgression it
is M after p uh so what what you're
saying is 100% correct but once again
the store is not likely to agree to that
particular condition yeah does ownership
begin upon delivery
or so um you talking about in terms of
when the store acquires ownership of so
that would depend on the deal but
generally speaking the way American law
would would generally work ownership
would occur upon delivery uh it's a
credit sale so ownership occurs when the
person gets the merchandise by the way
there's a little question that I need to
address as well that is what do we mean
by a Jewish store a Jewish store right
the problem
of is only if the was owned by a Jew
now here this raises an interesting
question that has many many
ramifications one could give not just
one Shear one could give a a lecture
series on this and that is what is the
halakic status of
Corporations because let me emphasize uh
legally what a corporation is a
corporation is actually an artificial
person in the eyes of the law meaning to
say uh a
corporation is a business entity uh in
which people have ownership of stock in
the corporation sometimes it's a public
corporation where the stock is traded
publicly other times it's a private
corporation like a family-owned
Corporation but it is a corporation and
what that means is for example if a
corporation borrows money it is only the
corporation that has to pay that money
not the individual shareholder so
whatever assets are in the corpor ation
creditors can cease but there is no
personal liability of a shareholder
unless there was a guarantee unless he
signed as a guarantor which indeed is
common but you see the concept because
conceptually under the legal systems of
of the world a corporation is not a
partnership in which the assets are
owned by a lot of people it is literally
a
separate being it's um I sometimes law
will talk about natural persons implying
there's such a thing as an unnatural
person uh but that's just a a fancy or
convoluted way of describing a
corporation a corporation is a person in
the eyes of the legal system but it is
not a natural person now the question
becomes how does
view a
corporation because if a corporation is
a separate entity
then corporations don't have religion
there's no such thing as a Jewish
Corporation or a non-jewish corporation
corporations don't have religion because
they're not human beings as a result
according to that if considers the
corporation to be a separate entity
there would never be a problem of for p
because even though I'm a Jew and I own
stock in the corporation I'm not an
owner of the
the corporation owns
the I may own the corporation but the
corporation is a separate person so
there is a position in Hal that says
that given the fact of course I mean I
mean the Little M may not be
incorporated but certainly if you're
talking about a a chain store whatever
it is all of them are
corporations all of them are
corporations so there are those who do
take the position hey there's no problem
of
because the was not owned by a Jew the
was owned by a
corporation but once again rosha
Feinstein uh disagreed with that
position and here he's M aged or disagre
disagreed with that position and rosha
Feinstein basically ruled that there is
a concept of Jewish Corporation and the
definition of Jewish Corporation can be
a number of ways either majority own
ownership of
shares is by juice number one that's
that's the obvious case number two even
if it's a non-majority but it is what is
called a controlling interest which is
very significant because in a public
corporation ownership is dispersed among
maybe hundreds of how many people own
you know AT&T stock and even if they own
half a share whatever it is there may be
I don't know a million people whatever
it is so you can really call the shots
if you have as little as 10% because
nobody approaches you so there are ways
of figuring this out but drosha says
that even if you do not have majority
ownership but if you if you have enough
of a percentage that you make the
decisions for the
corporation uh as a controlling
shareholder that would be a Jewish
Corporation and the third prong is a bit
bit of a Kish actually legal he says
even if the shares are owned by goam but
if the primary officers and directors
are
Jewish that's enough to make it a Jewish
Corporation because they have
managerial control even though they
don't have ownership this is an
interesting idea that for's purposes
ownership may be defined as control even
if it's not techn right uh the president
of a corporation does not own the
corporate assets he's not an owner of
the corporate assets but the managerial
control right so as a result uh the the
standard suck in the United States I
imagine other countries as well is that
people do follow roses Pak that's what
the OU would follow for example in which
we have to determine either majority
ownership or controlling ownership or we
look at officers and directors how many
directors that's also a good question I
mean a a board of directors there may be
30 people on the board so how many have
to be Jewish is it a majority of the
board you know once again you get into
difficult issues today by the way you
know um last names you're not a guy to
if some somebody's Jewish or not you
know uh because there's so much
unfortunately intermarriage and the like
and especially since Judaism is matrinal
descent and family
names we're still sexists in that way
tend to be patrial descent so somebody
whose name is Goldberg Goldstein
whatever it is might be a because
his mother uh might not be Jewish so
Congress huh was the congressman yeah
more more than one yeah the what which
one fman Felman okay I mean there was
yeah I mean there was uh William Cohen
William Cohen who uh who was a secretary
of defense I think he died maybe year or
two ago uh so William Cohen you know his
name was Cohen and he was actually a
non-jew because uh his father I don't
know if his father was a Coen or not
already but his father married a non-jew
and William coh is a go that's why by
the way the genetic test for Kahuna is
absolutely inconclusive now there is a
genetic marker to establish male
descent from Aon I don't really know how
they do this but this is the test a
genetic test that shows you are a male
after male you know from AR the co DNA
test uh so people say can that DNA test
establish Kahuna absolutely not because
uh William con assuming that his father
was a Coen would have that genetic
marker and he would be a right so at
most maybe and I'm not giving aing this
maybe the test could exclude Kahuna
meaning to say if you don't have the
genetic marker maybe maybe that could
prove you're not a
Coen right so it's what's called a true
Nega and a false positive but if it
shows that you have it that doesn't mean
anything at all because there are
gazillion things your mother could be a
uh and other things too if a Coen
marries a divorced
woman the kid is
a he's not a momer but he's a Kal Kal is
not a Coen right a Coen marries a gorus
there are many many many ways that the
child of even a Bonafide
Coen might turn out not to be a Co
anymore because the line could be broken
by any cohain prohibited marriage uh
whether it's to a which is an in
marriage whether it's to a goret whether
it's to a grusa uh you know all sorts of
other other situations interestingly
enough I mean I don't want to digress
too much uh for some reason it's a
little hard to understand the guy who
commits the sin doesn't get punished so
much if if a Cain marries a divorced
woman and has a child the child is a
kalal not a Coen
anymore but the Coen who committed the
sin is still a Coen he doesn't lose his
Guna although he's penalized he's not
given the honors of a Coen until he
separates from his prohibited wife but
intrinsically he is a CO right so it's
interesting the only one who suffers
here is The Offspring not the
perpetrator uh itself right okay the the
self remarks on that that particular
anomaly okay so that's one J
so is a regular Jew uh kalal is
essentially a
Israel uh there's no disability but but
but here is uh an interesting problem uh
the daughter of
AAL cannot marry a
Coen so if a kalal gets married to a
regular Jewish woman which he's allowed
to get married to there's no prohibition
the daughter has a of kalala as being
the
B and therefore she cannot marry a Coen
so there is um so when people say oh the
only thing a has is he's Israel it's not
quite true does have a certain
disability that gets passed passed down
okay
yeah are you suggesting that perhaps we
should be able to Define Judaism even
paternally because we now have
definitive ways of establishing
paternity I'm not advoca no no but
that's your question your question is
that uh the rule of matrilineal descent
some say might have been based on the
inability to know who the father is uh
on a level of certainty and you're
suggesting or asking whether perhaps we
could re-evaluate that Haka in light of
DNA testing well it's a fascinating
question uh no posc has ever said that
uh but when we have a Sanhedrin you know
you you you could you could present your
recommendation uh for re-evaluation Lis
there's no way there's no way Hally an
orthodox uh bason would would change the
Hala based on DNA testing uh but you
know again what you're saying is not
without logic I I understand your logic
but we won't we won't go there in terms
of logic yeah the problem would not be
done because one it's not practical to
go DNA it could cause problems yeah
major problems in terms of show this is
not the right father be a lot of well
let me give you a practical example of
this you
knowa uh halaka has a rule that if a
woman a married woman gives birth to a
child it is assumed to be the child of
the
husband it is assumed because we assume
that even if the married woman is known
to be
promiscuous but we assume that the child
comes from the husband that's why it's
very hard to establish
M because uh there's this assumption and
that's even if the child looks like you
know the next door neighbor or whatever
whatever it would be uh the is we go bus
we go we we always assume it's from the
husband which is a very very useful rule
the question becomes now that we have
DNA testing on that can DNA testing be
used to negate paternity so the truth of
the matter is the raban the but of the
rabut will not even allow DNA testing
meaning to say uh if a man let's say a
married man wife has a child and the man
wants to wants to contest
fraternity and he wants a DNA test the r
i me they can't really stop him
privately but the rabut will not
consider the DNA test to negate
paternity uh and therefore no Bas will
ever order it uh and the reason is they
don't want to create momser problems and
the like uh
so well in this context it's not so bad
because the consequence is simply uh you
got to you know you the father have to
pay financial support so they say we we
would rather not create a momser a momer
problem
and uh again again the other gum that
didn't like DNA testing at all I mean
you have all sorts of issues can you use
DNA to match and auna let's say in the
aftermath of tragedies going back to 911
or or the like in which you might have
an unrecognizable
corpse so you know there's fingerprints
there's dental records but but but
sometimes uh DNA might be the only
identification can we use DNA to
establish the identity of a uh dead body
or dead person and therefore allow a
woman to get married big MIM there were
poim who uh do allow it others Rebel
yosu was very strict he did not consider
DNA sufficiently reliable now I know
when people hear reel
Yak they think that's ridiculous because
DNA you know is like reliable it's one
in a billion chance that it's wrong but
I actually read it was interesting I
actually read an article
my I think my last flight to America a
number of years I remember when I read
it uh the Atlantic Monthly that talked
about the fact that when a DNA test is
done correctly the margin of error is
very very low like one in a billion or
whatever it is but the errors in
administering the test properly or doing
the test properly is actually fairly
high and they estimate that there may be
as much as 25% of the tests may be
tainted in various ways that's quite
amazing the technicians are not trained
adequately uh the laboratory conditions
are not so great there's contamination
of sample so the abstract accuracy of
the
technique has to be understood in light
of the
practicalities of uh the tests not being
administered in a prop proper way so
that's very very fascinating so that
kind of shows you that Rebel yosi's
instincts were not you know God forbid
not as crazy as people thought that in
fact he said it's not as reliable as
people think it is
yeah yeah no that that
that's no that's very true first of all
the whole yeah I mean the whole history
of of aote is that is one of leniency
starting from the gamorra I mean for
example you don't need two witnesses
right if one witness testifies I saw
Yakov dead that's enough the witness
could be a even if the is
conversing uh
not not with the intention of a
religious reason it could be a women
could be a cutan so so of course the
laws of aun are very very well known to
build a lot of leniency into the system
but you know DNA is a new step and a
relatively new Step the question is do
we want to take it that way rev Herzog
of course Herz was before DNA testing
but rev Herzog uh talked about blood
tests as uh aunan and the like and he
said for sure he was very very open to
understand to to legitimating the use of
scientific tests uh for identity but
again other posts can were more were
more reluctant about you address could
you address yeah in the case that you're
talking can you address what happens if
years
later the husband
returns well yeah yeah this has she's
remarried yes you address what what is
the in that respect the is very very
very very very tough uh this is actually
a mishna the mishna itself deals with
this problem in the 10th peric of yamos
she has to leave both husbands she
cannot stay married to this the guy she
married but she's not allowed to go back
to the first husband either because
she's deemed to have committed
adultery so it's very very tough again I
have a MOA story about this uh which I
don't think had a happy ending but it's
but it's an interesting story
nonetheless in which a woman came toosha
and she was sobbing and crying and she
said my husband my first husband was in
a concentration camp and um I went to
arav I didn't know where he was after
the war and I went to arav and arav gave
me aak I'm allowed to remarry and she
showed ra mosha a Pak from this RAV and
she said she got
remarried and then her first husband
showed
up what does she
do really a tragic situation
T but R mosha Who anyone who knew R
mosha knew he was the the kindest
kindest of possible human being there
could ever be seemed to be very tough on
her he kept on asking her
cross-examining her when did this Rabbi
give you this
letter uh tell me the circumstances what
did you tell him and he's grilling her
and she's getting very distraught
because he keeps on asking her all these
question questions and finally he says I
don't believe the rabbi gave you the
heter I believe you forged
it he says I knew this RV and Hashem
would not allow this RV to make a
mistake that would put you in this
situation and the woman broke down
crying and she said I was so sure my
first husband was dead I was sure but no
RAV would give me a heter so I went to
somebody who was a Forger
again what the end of the story was is
not a very happy story so what happens
in the circumstance where she went to a
bden and the bezon properly declared
that the first husband was dead um yeah
even even then even then even then the
mission says so luly he was dead well uh
she she was allowed to assume he was
dead no no no no I'm saying in the case
where azdin declared him Hally
dead yes but but again cannot
automatically change the M the
determination of death allows her to
proceed on that assumption but if that
assumption is then proven wrong there
are going to be consequences it's a it's
very difficult but again it's the
mission in the U 10th chapter of
yeah again no but you see it's I
understand but but it's not going to
help because the is this the problem is
if a woman committed adultery while she
was
married then she is not allowed to go
back to her first husband even if the
second husband uh would give her a gift
because he wouldn't even have
to which one the first husband should
give her a Gi Oh okay because you got
the same problem uh if she committed
adultery there are two people she cannot
marry she cannot go back back to her
husband and she cannot marry the guy
that she committed adultery with so
first husband is the husband under whom
she committed adultery second guy is the
guy she committed adultery with so she
can't be with him either I mean if a
woman commits adultery and then the
first husband gives her a get she's
still not allowed to marry the guy with
whom she committed
adultery so it's a tough
disappeared well well what you're saying
is she didn't have intention to commit
adultery or I I mean adultery as a fact
is is a fact but but but you're saying
she did not intend to commit adultery
because she believed her husband was not
alive yeah I I I understand I mean once
again I I understand the logic of what
you're saying but the mishna focuses on
the fact Lisa it was an adultery because
the husband wasn't fact alive under
those circumstances yeah excuse me these
terrible situations what is the status
of any children who were born second
husband or even to the first husband
well well kids who were born from the
second husband our M our mom the kids
born from the first husand would not be
but but uh a child born from adultery is
is a mom's that's exactly right what
can't he do what can't what what is what
is the prohibition against the mom
there is a negative Commandments in the
Torah wait wait wait yeah I'm sorry no I
asking oh okay uh a momer is not allowed
to marry uh into
CLA another M or gorth uh yeah yeah
[Music]
yeah or is it true oh no no you're 100%
correct uh once they get divorced even
though the woman is not allowed to marry
the guy she committed adultery with the
kids will not be MIM then but they will
be
MIM uh the children that were conceived
before the woman was divorced from her
first husband yeah yeah you're correct
but what I mean is that any
conception while she was married would
be mam uh any conception after she gets
divorced even though it's prohibited for
her to be with the guy she had committed
adultery with they would not be mam
there okay
yeah yeah we'll go back to
[Applause]
M he
disappears gets yeah and disappears and
she assumes she dead is that get valid
and then will the wife be able to marry
again but but if he appears what happens
then again take
well it it depends I mean if he gave her
a get then uh even if he shows up she
was divorced at the time so she would be
allowed to go back to him because of the
get that that's not adultery because she
was a divorced at the time she had the
relation okay let's go back to matah a
little bit I have no idea how we got on
to this but
okay say what if he was a then they're
in trouble yeah obviously if a Cohen
gives a guess there's no there's no Tak
for that
the Tak of this is called this goes back
to that soldiers would give gets to
their wives in case they were missing an
action that she shouldn't be an auna but
obviously if you're a Coen uh that's not
going to help you very much because when
you come back you won't be able to to
marry her okay uh probably although it's
not clear probably Kohan and were
probably exempt from military service
but it's not wasn't it conditional that
P down to
so so this this is an AR this is an
argument
rabam understands that this was an
absolute get that the woman had the
unfettered freedom immediately uh to
marry Rashi does understand it as
conditional this get should take effect
if I do not return in 12 months so if
I'm missing an action you are divorced
uh but if I do show up within 12 months
uh there's no get and therefore we don't
need to remarry yes
that's if the was a get on or it was get
okay but going back to P again I don't
know how I got on to this um uh
so number one
is number two is very very interesting
and that is relevant to the laws of
beetle
nullification uh right everyone knows
hopefully the the general principle
called B bashim but
bashim basically means if a non- kosher
substance gets mixed into a larger
quantity of kosher if the kosher is 60
times or more the volume of the non
kosher the non kosher gets neutralized
nullified Etc and you can eat the whole
thing an example would be if you're
cooking a very big pot of uh soup even
if it's fles either chicken soup or even
meat soup and somebody's carrying a cup
of coffee and some of the coffee spills
into the gigantic pot coffee with milk
uh spills into the gigantic pot uh since
we assume that there's many times more
than 60 times or hundreds of times the
amount of that little bit of milk that
is called B Bim and you were allowed to
have the soup uh now this is not only
true for meat and milk this is even true
for TR mamish if a if a GU spilled some
bacon grease into the meat soup even
that is going to be B Bish now one thing
make it very very clear two thing well
two things you need to know about but
Bish generally number one you cannot
engineer it
deliberately right let's assume I think
my chicken soup would just have a better
texture if I add a little cream to it
and because I'm a lden I'll be careful
to add the cream that is but Bish not
going to work because B Bish is a rule
for accidents it is not a rule that
permits you to deliberately nullify
prohibitions this is
called you do not nullify prohibitions
deliberately this is only accidents
that's principle number one
principle number two is it certainly
does not allow you to eat recognizable
tra so an example would be the following
let's assume a piece of bacon fell into
my chicken soup and it's but Bish but I
can recognize that piece of bacon but
bashim is certainly not going to allow
me to eat the piece of bacon it will
allow me to eat the soup that may have
absorbed from the the piece of bacon but
the piece of bacon has to be taken out
and discarded right so the two things
you need to know about but Bish
generally is you can't deliberately
engineer it and number two whatever is
recognizably non kosher must be
physically removed and then even though
it imparted some taste into the mixture
it's been nullified in 60 so the taste
is either non-detectable or
insignificant and that's called now
applies to it applies to all these
things but it does not apply
to is
so that even if you have 60 times non
even even if you have a 100 times non
even if you have a thousand times non so
an example would be let's take the same
example I'm cooking my PES dick chicken
soup and uh a little piece of bread or a
little kernel of of wheat or some flour
know non PES flow fell into it even
though the soup has a volume of hundreds
of times the whole soup has to be thrown
out because there is no rule of beetle
Bish on the
of now not everybody agrees this is the
for sure the who was one of the
early actually took the position that is
like every other is and he actually
says and occasionally
in we bring in the as a mitigating
Factor but
we this is
called prohibits in the most minute
quantity and the reason is because is
so because not only aren't you allowed
to eat it you're not even allowed to own
it and because of that the wanted to now
what's interesting is this though here's
an interesting
point this is a Rabin law so if I have a
mixture ofat and
nonat which is but M I'm not allowed to
eat it it does not have the
of because I did not transgress a again
let me give you a practical example if a
little bit of flour fell into my PES
chicken
soup even though there's many many more
times 60
K I'm not allowed to have that chicken
soup because
that's
but after
PES I'm allowed to eat it ah you'll ask
me what do you mean I own during P
shouldn't I have to throw it away the
answer is no the answer is that since
Thea it is
nullified there is no prohibition of
owning it there's only a Prohibition of
eating it and therefore if you owned it
during pesak you did not transgress
and therefore
the of after P doesn't kick in so I'm
giving you practical advice this should
never happen but if some got into your
PES Foods assuming
it's uh you're not allowed to eat it
absolutely but you are allowed to keep
it you can put it away and you will be
allowed to eat it after PES and it
wouldn't fall under the category
of because it is
nullified your soup
before yeah so that's another thing yeah
I'm GNA have to stop now but but you are
you are correct that's another rule that
that get gets mixed in before p is even
to allow you to eat it that's correct
yeah I have a question if it happens on
shabas before place right something
Falls in that you know was but and you
could remove it but then you're doing B
yeah yeah yeah right right that's that's
the life of a Jew you're always between
a rock and a hard place yeah yeah no the
the yeah the short answer is you remove
some of the edible soup with it meaning
to say uh you don't just take out the
you remove some of the edible portion
and that would be the way out yeah the
last question question about the
combination
ofish and the issue of DNA because Bish
you gave an example someone some milk
not only is it but they can even
estimate
that they don't even to any
[Applause]
scient because what 1%
1,000% are not many may not function so
why
could be
aded and say the DNA since it has this
99 or 120 or th% positive is positive
yeah yes so the truth of the matter is
though that
the is is is based on a different
principle and that is Bish is based on
the fact that an average person will not
be able to detect
taste in such a small quantity so that
this is a unique Factor dealing with the
limitations of sensory taste it's not a
general principle of Science of
nullification in a certain probability
it it refers really to the capacity of
tasting so it's kind of unique I think
to that that particular context uh yeah
apply wine as well as
food uh it it it it does yes yes okay
we'll stop here have a good week
everybody and