Nachum Segal | Interview with Uri Edell

Our [music] guest is Uriel, a married father of four from Bergenfield, New Jersey, originally from Toronto, Canada, which makes Gabby very happy. Uh he's got a successful career in marketing, and he's here with us via Zoom to share his story, his journey through a serious gambling addiction that consumed much of his adult life. Now sober and in recovery for the past nine months, he's using his story to raise awareness with the hope of inspiring others to seek help and find their way back. Uri, welcome to Unite to Heal. >> Thanks for having me, Nakam. >> A pleasure and thank you so much for being here. Obviously, your story is a very sensitive one and I don't know the best way to jump into this, but but how I mean, you know, firsthand, unfortunately. How does one go ahead and become a victim of a gambling addiction? Um, I don't think it's something that you uh really admit to yourself. I think it's something like, at least for me, something that started really casually. Um, in high school, I made my first bet. In Canada, Toronto, you can bet on sports legally at the convenience store. So, I made my first bet and won the first bet. I remember the excitement. the the high that that caused me and not realizing at the time that that first wind became the death in terms of me because it's something that I kept wanting to do um for the rest of my life ultimately. Um but it's something that starts casually quite quickly become a serious problem. >> And how long until you realize that you're in the depths of it? How long until you realize that you're in a situation that at this point or at that point is uncontrollable? >> You know, as compulsive gly lie to ourselves, right? We're we're never willing to admit that we're problem gamblers. We hold on to this idea that we can and will control our gambling, that this will be the last bet for me. All I need is for win and I'll stop. These are the lies that we tell ourselves. And you know, I Gambling addiction could be one of the the worst only because it's it's a silent addiction with no symptoms, no signs like you see with an alcoholic or with a drug addict. It's an addiction of lies, deceit, and secrecy. So, I'll tell you my story when I realized I had a problem. You know, for the first few years of my of my high school, you know, and college life, it was primarily casual gambling, occasionally going to the casinos. Um, you know, I wasn't a big casino player, but when I went, I would go pretty hard. Um, but everything changed for me once those online apps became available. um you know the DraftKings, the FanDuels when when gambling became so accessible that it was in the palm of your hand 247 that's when it became a huge problem. >> Is that three four years ago? Is that timeline right? Is that around three four years ago when when that really >> about six years about six years ago around COVID time >> you know I had obviously some problems before you know but again the access was so limited that it was hard to really do this 247 without driving for me to Atlantic City for two hours away. >> Um but when they became legalized six or seven years ago that's when everything changed and that's when I developed a serious problem. went from something that you had to drive a couple hours to to something that was available 24/7. >> The access the access created an even bigger problem. And and I guess it might be somewhat of an unfair question, but just I think it would describe the enormity. Do you have any clue how much money went into all this? Like do you even have a an idea of of how much this how much this terrible addiction cost? >> Yeah. You know, I always say that the money it's not a financial problem. It's more of an emotional problem. But >> I mean, the the money that I would win and lose on this is obscene, right? To some people it would sound like a crazy amount of money. To some people it might not sound like a lot. But it was it was in the millions of dollars that I was, you know, spending, you know, weekly uh on these apps. You know, instead of betting on multiple games like football or hockey, it became an obsession that I couldn't stop. every every game whether it was English soccer, whether it was Russian darts, Chinese ping pong, if there was a game on, I was going to bet on it. And where things went even haywire was the online casino. And we just heard the previous guest talk about that, but the online casino gave you um gave you access to thousands of casino games 247 in the palm of your hand. um >> is um is there a way for you as I don't even know if it's fair to call you an insider, don't be insulted by that, but do you have a perspective on what's going on in the Orthodox community? Like the the situation you were in and what you're going through, is it very common? Like would you would you know if it's affected many others? >> This is an epidemic, Malcolm. This is something that >> including in our community, >> not many people are talking about nearly enough. Um, especially now with legalized gambling and legalized casino gambling in in most states, this is an epidemic that is affecting not just not just the, you know, the society as a whole, but especially the Jewish community. Um, you know, there's a lot of shame and guilt that's associated with compulsive gambling. So, people are not really admitting their problems. I think for me this was a big step for me to go on this live program and actually talk about this because there is a lot of shame, a lot of guilt that's associated with it. Um I think that what what a one of the scariest things about it is that the the underage kids that are getting access to these apps, right? I know stories of many kids who are using their parents' social security number uh to open up an account, racking up crazy amounts of debt. you know, now you can bet on literally anything with these prediction markets like poly market. It's become so normalized in society. Um, you know, it's embedded in the culture. You know, even my daughter's friends, every time I'm I'm I'm around them, they're always talking about, you know, fantasy sports or the bets that they're making. Um, >> last week I saw an interview with with Gluck about a 15-year-old boy who racked up $200,000 in debt on their parents' credit card. And the comments there were all about how impossible and unlikely that is. I can assure you it's very very very possible and it's happening a lot more frequently than we than we know. >> What's been different about the last nine months? I described in the intro that uh you're now sober, thank God, in recovery for the last nine months. Obviously, as you know, and we're not revealing exactly who who held your hand through this whole thing, but uh you know that Ammudum, as you just alluded to, is dealing with these situations on a regular basis. What's been different about the last nine months? Why has it been effective to get you back on your feet? >> You know, the beginning was obviously really scary. Um, I got to a point in my life where I was sick and tired of living this way with all the sh the shame, the guilt, the mental gymnastics I would have to go through every day to figure out how I'm going to pay my bills, how I'm going to take care of what my kids need, how am I going to make sure my wife has what she needs, all while trying to figure out um how to get money for my next bet. You know, like I said before, the the problem wasn't necessarily the amount of money I spent. It was the amount of time that this addiction takes up. It affected, you know, my job, affected my relationship with money. Everything became monopoly money to me because of how much I was gambling. It affected my life as a husband, my role as a father, my relationship with Hashem. It just every aspect of my life was consumed by by gambling. And even when I even when I wasn't gambling, I was constantly thinking about when I would have my next bet, you know. Um I was talking on an interview a few a few weeks ago and told about how I would gamble literally all night 24/7 in the shower, while I was playing with my kids, while I was driving, while I was playing hockey or golfing, things that I love doing, um things that I should be actually doing to enjoy life, I was distracted because my head was buried in my phone. I I could not stop. And where I realized I needed to to end this is there was no amount of money that was going to be enough for me to stop. You always tell yourself you just win one more. You know, with this addiction, you tell yourself as long as you just have that next win, all your problems are solved, >> right? >> But when you get that next win, and I've had some of those, you just want more. And when you lose it, you just want to chase to get it back. So, I got to a point where I couldn't keep up with my own lies. I didn't want to feel this way anymore. And even though coming clean was my biggest fear, you know, I knew it was time to to tell my wife, to tell my parents, to tell my family what was really happening and to admit that I needed help. >> And how how does that help manifest itself? Are are there experts in this field that you consulted with, dealt with, met with on a regular basis? Was your family helpful in the process? >> My family was the most helpful in this process, you know. Um, my parents were were parents who I went to many times for bailouts, you know, to get money to help cover my gambling debts. They didn't know it was for gambling debts. They thought it was for medical problems or other things that I did. Um, but they bailed me out a number of times. My friends and family, other people who kept lending me money. Um, what I what I found most helpful in my recovery was just the love and support. I was scared of coming clean to them, of telling them the truth, of why I needed all this money, of telling my wife why my moods are the way they are, why I've become so angry over these last few years, even though I'm a really happy, positive person by nature. Um, but to me, the most incredible thing was just the love and support that I received from my family, you know. Um, I I knew I I had a problem. I needed help and my family was there um to walk me through that. So there are also organizations like Ammudim who have many of re many resources who are instrumental in helping people and families struggling with a gambling addiction. This is not a individual illness, right? And that's kind of was the impetus for me is realizing this is not just an illness that I'm suffering. This is affecting my entire family and everyone I love most in this world. So organizations like Ammudin can really help um both the the the addict as well as the family get through this because there is a light at the end of the tunnel as scary as it seems. >> Do you worry now day by day or are you at a point where you could be a little bit less stressed about the entire situation? >> You know this is um I absolutely live by live day by day. you know, um, living one day at a time is my only way through this. Every day I wake up, I dive into Hashem to pray that I I won't gamble today. At night, I thank Hashem for letting me be another day free of gambling. Um, I thank God for the love and support that I have of a amazing family. You know, my wife, my kids, my parents, my wife's family. Um, and you know, nine months is not a lot of time in the grand scheme of things, but for me that's a huge accomplishment. I was never able to go more than one to two days without vetting. Um, but I also recognize that I'm as close to my next bet as someone who has 30 years of recovery, as someone who has two days of recovery. This is a this is a daily mission that I have to live every single day. Um, you know, compulsive gambling is a progressive illness that will never get better. It only gets worse. It can't be cured, but it can be arrested if you practice the right principles. And for me, that's been living my life with honesty, with purpose. It's been going to gambling anonymous meetings and seeing other people who are suffering with this just like I am. Many other Jews in the Orthodox community who I interact with in these meetings. Um, and just making sure that that I live my life, you know, the right way and do the next best thing and live this life one day at a time. >> Your story is going to help a lot of people. You know that, I'm sure. >> I hope so. You know, obviously this is um this is an illness that brings with it a big stigma, you know, a lot of shame. And I think if I can help anyone else with my story, then hopefully, you know, it'll be worth it in the end. But what I would like to say to those people that might be watching this who are struggling with this addiction is one that this is this is not your fault. This is not a moral failing and it doesn't mean you're a bad person. Right? I think we all tell ourselves we're an awful individual. You know, betting your family's money, lying to people, getting loans, borrowing from people. It's a really shameful and um and comes with a lot of guilt. But this is a this is a disease the same way cancer is a disease. And the problem is, you know, when you uh when you have cancer, you don't think that the the best way to cure yourself is to get more cancer. But with gambling, you tell yourself that the only way to fix your problems is to gamble more. Um but I can tell you that if you continue down this path of continuing to gamble, those problems will get exponentially worse. Um you know, I always thought I would hit I always thought I hit rock bottom, and I always tell myself, I'll stop when I hit rock bottom. But I kept finding more soil underneath. And there are kids out there who think that they cannot come clean from this who think that they're at rock bottom. But I would give anything to go back 15 years, 20 years and never place that first bet because it's something that will only get worse in your life. >> Uri I consider this heroic. You you would probably downplay it, but the fact that you're uh doing this publicly, I think is an amazing service for our community. I think it's an amazing service for those who are suffering from what you've experienced. And uh all I could say is call it a vote and thank you so much for sharing it with us tonight. >> Of course. Thank you >> and wishing you of course the very best. Uadell uh married father of four and uh telling us all about this terrible gambling addiction. And yes, yes, whatever we could do, just as a total aside, I know this is not our topic, but as a total aside, whatever we could do to encourage government officials and others to get rid of this access to gambling, it can only help our community. And it can only help everybody in this country. [music] >> [music]