Nachum Segal | Interview with Dr. Norman Fried

Our [music] good friend Dr. Norman Frerieded is here. Dr. Frereded is a clinical psychologist specializing in trauma and abuse in the lives of children. He's author of five books on the subject of surviving loss. He is the producer of a documentary feature film about the impact of child sex abuse on our developing youth. And it is currently in contention for best documentary at the Academy Awards of 2026. And I know that the awards is not the most important thing, but nonetheless, congratulations. An amazing feeling being recognized like that. >> I'll tell you why it's an amazing feeling, Nah. Because if the Academy is able to recognize this film, they're recognizing everyone in the world that is in great need of attention and support because of uh a a situation that's happening way too often in our world. One in five girls and one in six boys are sexually abused before the age of 18. And that's only that the numbers that are reported, not the numbers of people who are hiding in shame and silence. You have a unique insight into this. We see why. That trailer is amazing. How do we help victims from your point of view heal from this traumatic pain? >> Well, the movie itself talks about the shows the arc of uh one man's story of of abuse and then descent into drug and alcohol abuse and then finding psychotherapy, finding religion, finding God and ultimately finding a way to heal and live a better life. In individual therapy, I work with children and adults who were children who were abused and I work very much both through uh the process of amuna and faith and their ability to actually reconnect with people in a safe relationship. So the the way that we help children heal is to develop safe and secure attachments and a sense that they can effect change in their life since power has been taken away from them. And of course always a belief in a higher power in Hashem who is the greatest listener as well as the greatest healer. >> Wow. I would assume there are specific techniques that are used in these therapy sessions. Uh what are those like? >> The first of course is to allow the person to feel safe in your presence and then sometimes we do play therapy which is symbolic imagery and non-verbal language that is that is expressed through the games through the play. So a child will come in and play chess perhaps the parents will say to me all you're doing is playing chess every Tuesday night and I say it looks that way and it is that way to the boy but I'm establishing a sense of safety but the way he wins the game or the way he loses the game or the way he throws the game if he thinks he's losing tells me a lot about what's happening on the inside of him. Children who have been through a traumatic experience like child abuse will show you in their play what they went through. They don't use direct language. They'll say things such they'll take a pencil and they'll use the pencil in a way that was used that that they experienced it upon themselves when they were abused. And so a dinosaur or a doll in my office becomes the stimulant for some greater expression of need. And then through symbolic play, we move to reparative play, which is helping the child recognize that not only do they have to to tell their story in their own way, but they can also begin to believe that in telling their story, healing begins. Now with sorry, >> no, I was going to say, can they be repaired as adults? I mean, can they get to the point of reparation? >> Absolutely. I believe very much in the process of healing. Please remember that healing is not a pres is not a past tense word. No one is fully healed from a trauma. >> You're always healing. >> We are always healing. It's present tense. In Hebrew, we say in English we say and I'm understanding. We say that every day we have the chance to heal more and more both with and a connection to our God as well as with a connection to a healthy caring other who has appropriate boundaries. Now, for older folks who are talking about the abuse from when they were younger, it's very important that there's someone that can hear their story in all of its gory details because in so doing, the the person begins to own what happened to them as their own story and they can then co-create with the therapist a happier ending. And in the end, the greatest listener of all is our God. And would you say that even those who are not in a faith-based community would be benefiting [clears throat] from a uh a look toward faith in that situation? >> Well, that's a beautiful question you ask. And I will tell you that when I work with folks who do not believe in a higher power or God or say that there cannot be a god after this has happened to my child or to me. >> Typical reaction, right? >> Right. It's an sadly uh customary response. What happens is that through the establishment of a safe and secure relationship with a caring other, they begin to recognize that healing can happen. Love exists. It can be safe. And [clears throat] they begin to believe that maybe, just maybe, there is something more powerful. There's something about the God that people say they don't believe in. >> Interesting. >> And I say to them, tell me about the God that you don't believe in. And sooner or later through their expressions and through their love of the work that we do, the safety they feel and the reconnections with healthy people, they begin to find God. >> Dr. Free, do you have a message for parents? Is there any general, I don't know, guideline, uh something, I don't want to say warning, but something you could share with parents just as they observe their children and wonder if they're going if their kids are going through it. >> Right. Right. Right. Thank you. That's important. And our movie is indeed a cautionary story about the ills of what can happen when a child is taken under the the um the power of somebody, the influence of somebody. It's very important that parents understand that most of the time the abuse occurs around or by someone who knows the child and knows the family. And that's because the child can develop a greater sense of attachment and safety in that adult since he seems to be liked by the community. It's rare, but it happens that someone outside of the community will be involved. Please be on the lookout, I say to all of the folks for changes in a child's interpersonal style, their appetite, their sleeping patterns, their performance at school. Relationships will suffer and they'll begin to express their feelings through agitation and belligerance. Remember, if we do not cry with our eyes, we will cry with another behavior, anger or fear or hopelessness, or we'll cry with another organ, stomach aches, backachches, Crohn's, or other kinds of GI problems. So, be on the lookout for all of these things. But most importantly, don't let your child say everything's fine. Find many and different ways to connect and embrace and let your child know, I'm here. I can take it. And if you tell me what you're hurting about, you will know that I believe you. Way too often when a child says this happened to me, parents say that didn't happen. It couldn't have happened. Don't talk that way. It's Ashandanda. But the most powerful words in the English language for a child who's been traumatized are I believe you. >> And if we say that, when we say that, the healing begins. You are acutely aware that Amudum deals with these types of situations. >> I am deeply and acutely aware of all the beautiful work that Amu Amudum does with all of these patients, >> right? abuse victims and those who are going through the trauma and even those who are going through the trauma years later >> and in the years following the trauma. Their their recapitulation of the trauma would be through drug and alcohol abuse or or or hypersexuality or an inability to connect with others, a need to be separate and alone and untrusting. There's also something else that happens which is known as Stockholm syndrome where the person who was abused suddenly finds themselves attached or attracted to more difficult and powerful people that allow them to almost restimulate the trauma of their childhood. It's very important that we get to the child when it's happening and if it is in their past, we get to the child that's inside of the adult that's still hurting because it's happening still inside of those who haven't told their story. >> Wow. So many layers. It's unbelievable. Um, as I said, you're acutely aware of the work of Ammudin. We're here tonight to make sure that they have a successful campaign and uh uh I I I wouldn't uh turn to you to appeal to this audience directly, but I would ask you to in fact make a recommendation to them that supporting Ammudim does help people tremendously. >> It's a beautiful statement and I will tell you that supporting Amuim does so much. It does so much for those that are in need and in terms of the direct contact with clinicians that can actually help children feel safe and tell their story and learn ways to have a better life. But it also helps those of us who are giving because when we give, we experience the we experience the helpers high and we recognize that not only are we helping someone that we perhaps know is in pain, but we're helping ourselves as well to improve this world through tikun lum through repair and through recognizing that while we live in a broken world, it can and must be fixed. >> Amazing. Uh well, you've given me a reason to pay attention to the Academy Awards this time around. I hope so. I hope I get to say hi to you. >> Most times it just passes on by. >> I'd love to say this is phenal. >> I appreciate that. [laughter] But the reality is that uh it's such an important film and honestly it's not just our community but really the whole world can benefit from it. >> World and I hope it'll be on Netflix or Hulu someday so that everyone can watch it in their own living rooms. It's a it's a very short feature long feature. It's 41 minutes long. It is a full length feature, but it is >> long enough not to overwhelm the viewer because you're basically eavesdropping in a very intimate, vulnerable, therapeutic session with someone who's telling his story and with the experts who helped him get better. >> Am I right that we met him in previous years? >> He was here two years ago telling the story. He's right now in LA premiering the film for the two of us. >> Wow. And originally he's from Australia. Correct. >> He is originally from Australia. That's right. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Always a delight to speak with you and congratulations. And like I said, we now have a reason to pay attention to the Academy Awards, which we generally >> ignore. Thank you to Dr. Norman Freed and everybody out there. [music] [music]