Headlines on Children at Risk with Rabbi Zvi Gluck and others - hosted by R'Dovid Lichtenstein

[Music] welcome to headlines this is David lonstein this week our show will be about Children at Risk challenged with all the problems and the multitude of issues we have bringing up children and what is probably the most challeng in generation ever to bring up children I would suggest that there are many children that by the time of 13 or 14 have seen more than your grandfather saw when he was 80 in hisle so we have a fabulous panel of guests we have Raba yrel grossberg who's the dean of benosa Academy he says a school where the only children girls they take in are those who can't get in any anywhere else because of either substance issues ETC we have Rabbi YY Rubenstein author author of on the Der we have GL the great sadic of our community who runs amudim and he says his entire rubric his entire uh Guist is working with people in crisis particularly children in crisis we have Mrs rukama clapman of MK mothers and fathers align to save kids kids and then we have Yehuda one of the success stories people who one person cared that person may have been you and intervened on his behalf and he was a substance abuser and many abuser of many other things too and now he is clean and doing wonderfully before we begin let me share a thought with you my dear listeners the children we speak to or the kids or the teenagers and there are many I I would suggest that everybody you know knows somebody who has a child at risk everybody listening knows somebody at risk and it's a real problem we here s Glock talk about we have two suicides a week that's over a hundred a year that he personally does the tahara for frightening numbers so here are two of the things that the children will say and the parents they suffer from judgmentalism we look at them and in our eyes our noses the way we wrinkle our faces they know they're not good they know they're not good enough they know they're not dressed appropriately they know they're not their marks aren't appropriate they know their productivity is inappropriate they know it and they feel it and it hurts and grief and they strike out and then they start cursing and acting violent because nobody likes to be a reject and you know who else gets judged parents what type of a parent are you anyway they see it in the supermarket and in sh when their kids their children come in again maybe with the funny haircuts or maybe not just not showing up at school and people whisper judgment we judge them what type of appearance are you so I want to say a small thought on judgmentalism and judging other people you know y we speak about him on yipa he was asked by God by Hashem to go and to tell nve to repent they had done wrong and what does he do he says go save nve nope runs jumps into a boat has his amazing encounter in the deep sea with a whale but the question is why wouldn't he and there that saot but I want to suggest a different shot Yaya's name is yonah Ben am the son of am the honest man and it's a a n defend what does it mean it means basically his pen name was Yona the man of integrity the son of honesty and you know what yonah said honesty I'm an honest man all those kids Fe those parents Fe nve Chua they're bad people what just say make it all go away turn the other cheek like are we fooling I'm an honest person I lived my whole life with honesty I don't think do you know that here in the United States they want to do forgiveness of people who are default of mortgages and you know that 80% of other consumers say I paid my whole mortgage on time why should you get all free they don't want to know that the other person may struggle may have lost the job may have a sick parent the child Etc so he's an honest man and you know what else I have a proof of it says when he's trouble and he's he says and he stops with Ms he says Ms truth is not one of the med it's not a med of forgiveness a person should be honest but but Yona is not right right he's he's censured for this and what is the reason because Ms there's not one Ms there's more than one Ms your Ms and my Ms could be very different and it's not only that you see in the mid it says that means raavs much Ms what do you mean much Ms there's only one EMS but it's not true there's more than one there's your truth and my truth and you grew up with different parents or maybe with no parents or with one parents some earned a living some didn't earn a living you may be tall you may be short you may have a smarter brother than you a smarter sister than you it may be in Yeshiva in school you just didn't you couldn't do it you had add genetically he or maybe he had so is your Ms and my Ms the same one do you know in we have of R Rashi and what does the primam say he says imagine two different how could there be two truths right what's the the uh we say every time it says the ran in sh he says he says there are two truths there's theat and there's the it says and they're both true he says even though they're very different right what do we say in on something so simplistic as to what is the nighttime does evening start by Min or does evening start by and what do the they're both true there's more than one truth in the great he says every time there's in the gar he says one is and one is but it's also there are many truths right when we say because there are more than one ways there is your truth my truth they're different truths and they could both be true you know we say the famous story this couple comes to a rabbi and they're having an argument and he says oh my wife she did this and this and this she's so guilty and he says you know you're right and then the wife says him she he looks at her and he says you're right so they both look at him and they say how could we both be right and he says you know something you're right but there are many truths as we grow up and you know who else suffered from this n what does say he says was believed here's a question for you everybody knows since you're children 120 years n said and he he prophesized on the cacious events that are going to come the apocalypse the mble how many people did he convince in 120 years zero now I ask you Rashi says was the greatest industrialist of Aer he invented the PL he was the Elon Musk he was the Thomas Edison of his generation could you imagine Elon Musk sold 350,000 cars in two days when he came out announced a new product which may or may never happen and that's in in one day he sold 350,000 people lining up 120 years he couldn't convince a single person and the answer is only one possibility you you can't convince anybody if you don't believe it's true or if you don't want to convince and what did believe is true he said this is a terrible generation it's a generation of Aras of G and it's bad get them to repent I don't understand where they're coming from these are bad bad people and that's why he couldn't get one person judged and when does n stop judging when he comes out of Thea and his body piled up bodies of his friends his family his uncles his aunts his brothers his sisters his wife's brothers and sisters everybody he knew bodies all over and what does he see he sees a rainbow and what's a rainbow thousand colors each one different each one beautiful he said Aha and what does Hashem say I shall not curse the world again I cannot see now the opposite of mid Haden of theim is seeing how many different ways there are how many different challenges people are how each of us is so different how we understand things differently how we can get hurt and be vulnerable so differently that is the story of Noah and a learns from this when a comes to SED SED is the arch enemy much much worse than any kid at risk they did the worst imaginable things they put on a girl till she's died to death because she gave somebody something and what does a say AR tries five times to be mpal for S because he understood the medish says a understood everybody that is the beauty so do we want to go when we look at parents or children who are struggling do we want to look at it like y did like predian before the mble or do we want to look at it like our grandfather aam and he when he says has and the med says everybody's so different how could how could you be Shor in this you're listening to us on wmca or d That's 570 or wca.com or you may be listening to us on the N seagull Network that's at null.com and we're also on N seagull at 11:00 a.m. Monday morning our first guest will be T luck whose boots are on the ground dealing with these crisises day today from Brooklyn New York the Asin who deals probably most with kids of risk who are probably at the most dire points in their life Harlock who is truly a sadic in his involvement and his my nees to those in our community who are struggling the most welcome rib Shalom how are you good could you tell us how much of a problem is it Children at Risk you know I I got to be honest I I really don't like that terminology I'm going to preface by saying that I don't know who decides what is and what isn't at risk but the problem of children suffering and being in pain is unfortunately a lot greater than most people want to believe how is that so I don't know any person today that doesn't know someone within their own family within a friend's family or at the very least a neighbor's family that doesn't have a child who's in pain Define in pain rip in pain in pain can be anywhere from children who are acting out because they've been abused because they've been neglected because they've had learning disabilities or history of mental illness and people don't know how to deal with them so therefore they try to create their own path which many times is a very destructive one including drugs criminal activity promiscuity and the re only knows how much more and H how do you know it's such a problem like what like what's the trail that you see that leads you to say this is a serious problem that we have to deal with I've been in this field for over 15 years now and years ago when I first got involved the biggest issue we dealt with were 17 18 year olds that were smoking too much weed or maybe drinking a little bit too much alcohol now we're dealing with 13 and 14 year olds using heroin and finding any method possible including hurting themselves both physically and emotionally to be able to find the funds to be able to continue these habits and and and is that really a problem in our community I guess we'll let the number speak for itself we've had had 64 tragic deaths under the age of 35 since Russia sha this year alone which is around 6 months which is around you're saying it's it's it's close to 10 a month eight a month the numbers we have are about eight a month or simply stated two a week and what is it is are these you're talking about suicide overdose like what would you how a combination of everything I think the numbers we put together showed that 20 of them were actual suicides and the other 44 were drug and alcohol related deaths so what is the leading cause of it it's in our community we really don't have the types of Statistics that I would like can I tell you that on the suicide front most of the people that committed suicide were victims of sexual abuse yes can I tell you that a large percentage of people that committed suicide had untreated or not treated enough mental illness yes can I tell you that on the drug addiction alone that many serious addicts and I say serious addicts I'm talking about people that are using drugs day and night getting any high they can have a very very Dee rooted trauma which almost always comes from abuse yes can I tell you that it comes from broken homes I'm sure there's some statistics to that as well in our Circle what we're seeing the largest percentage is victims of abuse be it's sexual physical emotional and after that the second highest group is those that are suffering from mental illness wow what are the early warning signs that a parent should look out for so actually in the middle of trying to put something together and comprehensive but the earliest sign that we've been able to really use and have a lot of clinicians back us up on are uncommon pattern changes when children start acting different than what they normally are and this can be what might seemingly be a good pattern change as well you know we've had children that went from being mediocre students to all of a sudden being straight A students in a unhealthy quick time or the other way around people that are normally doing well in school that all of a sudden start failing or people that used to take care of themselves and come in to class neat and taken care of that all of a sudden stopped caring about their looks or on the younger children acting out a lot fighting a lot not listening to Authority at a young age you know these are all early detections that are indicative that something is wrong we may not know exactly what a change in Behavior a change in Behavior exactly pattern of behavior and so why do kids then migrate to drugs so really there's two different categories I mean there are some kids you know one of the guys in my office likes to always tell me sometimes kids use drugs just cuz it's fun and there is a large Cate atory in that as well but from those that are looking to take away the pain anything that can alter their normal self and put them into a state of relaxation or into put them into another alter personality gives them a little bit of in their own mind of Nas that they're able to push away the pain that they went through so it might start off with one drug and then when that drug doesn't do it they might go to another drug or a higher dosage or more of it because while they're in that high that becomes their new reality that doesn't include this painful part of their life that they're trying to escape from let me ask you a question so Rah a person has a kid whose Behavior has changed and they realize they were either a victim of some type of abuse emotional physical sexual Etc what does a parent do so the first first thing I always say is the parents should not start questioning their kids too much because you don't want to start creating memories or making things blown out of proportion but they should immediately seek professional clinical help from people that are trained to deal with this and I'm not trying to from the ason that do a very good job but at the end of the day people that go to school to become therapists psychologists that know what they're doing are the first line of defense to being able to diagnose what's really going on right it's it's it's unfortunate and again I had a very call me today and said that what I've been doing lately putting out some videos and sending out emails and bringing this to light is is is is quite possibly AEM why don't you ask this R to come to the taharus that was exactly I actually asked the r to join me when I go can I ask you what name of this R was I I I don't feel comfortable um I I have the phone number for Relief resources what would that be 9501 thank you so much for joining us c c all the bye bye by let's go to the world famous BBC broadcaster I think this is the first time we've had a BBC broadcaster on the phone RAB by YY Rubenstein who recently wrote a book on this topic and he's written a book called on the Der he's the author of many uh including one that recently came out two weeks ago called rafu Hal uh on the section of of the but he is an expert of children both I guess off and on the Derk based on his book called on the Der welcome Rabbi Rubenstein thank you very much pleasure to be with you so Rabbi Rubenstein if you had to give us the reasons why do children go become at risk what drives children to drugs to uh leaving yiva to other Wayward behaviors what would you say that is I would say there are probably four reasons and really these four reasons or at least three of them were a trigger for the writing of the book which you very kindly mentioned before on the dur which has got 21 answers to 21 serious questions that young people and occasionally rabbonim asked me because they were struggling with finding a good answer to the first reason I would say that kids sometimes are at risk in fact often are at risk is because they come from difficult family backgrounds there is tremendous poverty in Israel that's particularly a problem uh in from places like benra uh where you know their parents are very often 100% committed to teror LMA and that might mean a life of poverty um for difficult family backgrounds including sadly as we know today the terribly High incidents of divorce uh another reason um for children going off the D is them being rejected from schools and what would be the third reason so we have pover dysfunction in the family suffering in the family children who who suffer rejection at school give me the third and the third is when they ask questions in the so they're in the school but then they ask a question and for asking a question which is a a fundamental and important question they are branded appic carum thrown out of the classroom thrown out of the school and uh and when I wrote this book the people who who held on to this book most tightly particularly those who borrow them for my children and failed to return them past all the deadlines were the MIM in the bakov and yeshivas because now they had an answer the reason they were throwing the kid out wasn't because of an appic carucha question often it was a very straightforward and honest answer a question it's just the rebi didn't have the answer in particular if it was the rebit and she didn't have the answer so hide her own embarrassment she threw the kid out in my humble opinion and may I quote Rashi but you know people might want to doubt his Orthodox um credentials these days but Rashi points out in MIM when it says MIM with me and these are stats that you put before them and he's intrigued by it says why it says tosing and he famously records that there was a conversation between Hashem andu and he says said to don't think it should ENT enter your mind W but you'll teach once twice three times until they know off by heart and you won't bother yourself to tell them the reason why the is like it is and isn't like it isn't rather it should be like a with everything you need for the meal on the table the tablecloth The Cutlery the Crockery the salt the pepper everything you need that's what the Torah has to be as well so every question is legitimate what how does how does begin a person has to know clearly what it's all about so there's no such thing as an AIC AIC question I think as AIC answers which are presented as questions but every questions legitimate as long as you you know it's it's it's offered in a spirit of please answer this like the H does same we just finished P because it's a whole Shack liar about the similarity between the question of the rash and the but the still wants an answer the Rashia doesn't want an answer so if a kid asks a good question why throw him out through her house get yourself a better K teacher so you can answer the question can you give us an example of a question that you find that young people struggle with oh well the obvious one is the one that we all struggle with and that is s g and I'll say because I just had the enormous privilege of uh translating Shar in modern language a very I remember once I was giving a sheare in London um there was about I think a thousand people there and the the MC of the evening said we've got room we've got three minutes left we've got room for one more question so somebody popped their hand and said why did God let the Holocaust happen so so forgive me if I I'm not really able I'm not running away from it I say I've written books in the subject I've got this in Shum and I'm quite happy to come and talk about it too complex to give a sound bite for it's a yeah it's too big for a sound bite I've got a sheer I think it's online called why the very bad things happen to very good people uh which I'm sure you'll be able to get free um or people were able to listen to free I'm very happy for them to do so um it but it takes an hour to talk this is a big big issue and IAL I talk incidentally as somebody who lost his late wife to cancer so you know I I do know a little bit about why the you know bad things happen to very to very good people my wife was my late wife was a very good person and that's important incidentally uh I write I I wrote a book I wrote a book about this which I have the hoer to say that people should own everybody should own it's called the little book for big worries dealing with serious illness um because we all will and all should be dealing with somebody who's very not well at some point in our life might be a close friend or it might be a cousin or it might be a sibling certainly a parent or grandparent you want to know how to do well so that if you got hold of that uh there's a whole that that the answer to the question is a whole long chapter in there why the very bad things happen to very good people but it's it's not a sound bite okay so the third reason then would be the inability of MIM to answer the most curious minds and and and well educated and more not in the ghetto today children are not in the ghetto anymore anybody who has access to a newspaper to God forbid an iPhone they will have genuine question questions and yeah the are simply not equipped so we are blaming we basically shift the blame from sometimes inability to answer onto the children and that would you say is a third reason are there any other was any other reason would come to mind yes there is and it's a bigger one and it's one that I didn't mention and I'll tell you about that in just a second but I would like to add that the MIM themselves who often fail to give the answer or hide their embarrassment by rejecting the child are very often extremely talented and good people it's just that they were not equipped with the answers to the questions um and that's a shame because I said when people got a hold of that particular book and I'm sure there are other books too when they're given the ammunition they fight a good fight so there's some there's something critically wrong with the system that isn't equipping or enough with good as gotha questions to answer these in in let me let me again interrupt but it says by the Ben har Russia isov yes and most people erroneously TI hak to be Smite him on his teeth yeah but it's but it's erroneous because hake is spelled with a KU and not with a so even though they're read with the same it's like here h e r e and H A I R they mean two totally different things right and hake means to blunt so literally means to blunt his bite excellent the russas asked a very cutting question and one way to do it is to run out and hide and the other reason is is to have the answer and let me tell you a story when I lived in Lakewood years ago we were sitting around the shabas table and there was a knock on the door and there was a few um uh Jews for Jesus were there right and they came in and I wasn't there and my guest answered the actually a a guest family member answered the door and he slammed the door I said what happened he said it was a Jew for Jesus I said so what happened he says you I won't talk to them with a look of consternation on his face I said on the contrary let's invite them in and they came in and I said so tell me about yourself and they ped that you know it says in Isaiah 4 it says and he will pierce you I said well I have an Isaiah here let's look it up I said it doesn't say will pierce you you're just reading you read Hebrew no we don't read any Hebrew so and after a half an hour of listening to them in Cas by case pulling out aish and a tanak and rejecting the answer suddenly one looks at the other and he says we really have to leave this is we we're in a big and they both ran out so hak ainov means yeah blunt his tee know the answer yeah yeah so because there's nothing more powerful than a rby having the right answer yes yes I think you're 100% right what would be the fourth the fourth thing well the fourth one is the the one that we really don't want to talk about but actually in kot to the F world I never thought they would talk about this but now we are and when I published this piece which started off of Ed hamadia I had a phone call from a lady uh who would not give her name and you realize when when rabbis are phed by people with problems who won't share their name it's obviously a very deep problem she said you but three reasons why kids got the D Rabbi there's a fourth and she paused and I said Oh you mean sexual abuse and then she I heard a little noise in the background she said I'm a Survivor and this woman came from a very prestigious home aidic home in this particular case although it doesn't have to be and she was I mean don't know the age group of of the people listening to to your show but uh uh she suffered the worst at the hand of her the hands of her father if you follow and this lady gets Shor now mve in Liv in a her husband is a maget she the damage that is done now what is the instance what is rather what's the statistic of the the the phenomenon we're talking about so uh I have a I have a relation through marriage who's called bra Dr shiman Russell who lived in lwood so very recently he moved to Israel and somebody called robbi doid revson who is I think one of the cleverest and certainly straightest men in the world and he is I mean the number of moister honas that he's created is enormous from n through the the whole Spectrum both came up with the exact same figure girls going off the Der 85% have been sexually abused 85% 85% and boys boys I'm not sure that it's not far off it it's not far off it and it's normally I'm going to say something which is going to be extraordinarily unpopular with you listeners and maybe it's because I'm British uh most he's I was told by both most of the abuse that happens to boys is not the rebi ETC although that is obviously headline and horrible it often takes place by other boys and particularly at the most ridiculous um institution I know of in the world called summer camp the American Summer Camp just take send your kids away for six weeks or two months in the summer away from you uh with counselors who are maybe two years older than the kids and uh they'll have a great time if I was the San and I wanted to get the kids I could not have dreamed up a better model than the summer camp model wow everybody you've heard it here first ra by y why Rubenstein summer camps are very dangerous it's not just sending your kids away there as you stroll when they're 20 or 18 for a few years sending a a six seven 8 n 10 year old away to summer camp is can be really dangerous yes yes I'll tell you an interesting story I sent my late as I mentioned before my late wife died from cancer and uh so I had two doctors at the time one was trying to get the ages right I think one was 12 and one was 14 something like that and I was doing lectur I was still living in England and I was lecturing Over America and somebody recommended a a summer camp I won't say which one and and I asked friends friends good really good people who themselves had gone to this Camp when there were young young ladies and they said it was great Romano afterwards told me I was completely wrong it was not a great Camp I should have asked him before of course but I I just trusted the other people and of course things change and things evolve and something that had a great reputation was a good place might no longer be so anyway my daughter because her mother had died was put in a bunk uh with other troubled girls but troubled girls in this case meant drugs uh sexual activity etc etc there nothing wrong with my daughter nothing wrong with her her jewishness her yish kind but but before we get to the effects of the other kids on the administration of this this Camp which is a well La C there's another response incidentally which if you'll allow me to make when I was in England I fought and battled very very hard for a number of years to expose somebody who was a fraud a phony and probably a pedophile probably I couldn't get enough evidence but he was certainly a liar in a fraud and and had forged his qualifications but got involved in K well pedophiles would wouldn't they etc etc anyway in confronting people who had been sold by this person I found over and over and over again despite offering them the evidence they when you show them that they should have done the due diligence they should have checked this guy out and didn't they are appalled for 24 hours and then they immediately go into defense self-defense and therefore defense of the person they become complicit in the crime to cover up their own lack of responsible inquiry to make sure that guy who uh was uh appropriate before they appointed him and to this day that that that phenomenon still occurs so I certainly know of a couple of uh frauds and phonies who I've dealt with and come across here in the United States and who are dealing with people but the problem is if I say you know Rabbi this the guy you think who is Rabbi this is not he's a fraud the strange thing is people don't listen and then you just become known as a troublemaker and and you just opened up a war which you're going to lose because this I don't know why people won't listen maybe it's because they're embarrassed because they should have listened a long time ago okay so rub let me just make a sort of a a secum of this year you say the number one is dysfunction at home it could be poverty divorce or some could be illness some other severe stress at home that kids become I guess deeply unhappy and search for other Avenues of trying to make a better life yes number two would be children who don't get into this school it's one of the most embarrassing rejections that can happen to a person yeah um and and at such a young age so there so young souls are so easily hurt and damaged don't have defenses correct and the third is ironically MIM who don't have appropriate answers for what is a generation that has more questions because they're more exposed corre so it's in equipped and the last one is sexual abuse you say 85% of girls would occurs to have some type of abuse and much of which you say happens at for boys certainly at or girls at summer camp and parents are not aware of this yes it's very powerful and it's I mean we let's let's just you know put our cards on the table here sexually abusing a child is almost almost killing the child and probably is killing the child I we had R David Conan who said that a sexual molester has the din of a RI exactly and I just heard a horrible story recently of a fellow who had been sexually molested by his his Braha teacher he had he got the but he he responded to the therapy uh well he was counseled he had a good psychologist and he settled down got married overcame had his own children and everbody thought of him as you know the Paradigm of of how you can or this sort of thing until the night before his own Sons bareta where he cut his wrs really how sad it it lay there dormant everybody thought he'd go over he don't if you are sexually abusing a child you're killing that child so is it fear to say if if if the din if the if this if the abuser has the din of AI yeah and somebody does not report the Molester yes be it a friend a relation a rebi a teacher so doesn't the r say that there's that to Bea and they think they're being Pious and they're not only endangering somebody's life but they're actually becoming assisting arith that's right they become complicit and I think the way you put it is appropriately strong maybe not strong enough um I look there's a wonderful there's a wonderful um uh set of for H for by professor Abram so for Abram was very close to if I remember rightly schl zman or maybe it was re as can't remember which of the two G but certainly the fact of one of the two to him on this on this front was and this is written quickly in the Sor him if a child is being sexually molested there not the slightest doubt that you go to the police yeah tell something we had we had R David con say this on this program yes and subsequently I had a a a very well-known rashash Shiva refused to come on the show because of RB David kesak he was so upset about RB David kak he said I cannot appear in the program after he had agreed to because he was so anti- reporting molesters well can tell well maybe you can back to the r and say that don't worry about rad k your objection is to either Shaman or rabash well rabash rashev had a very nuanced difficult answer he said first you have to go to to to bezden David K says you go straight to the police right so and in that Cas is sham and said the same thing listen to this he said ah but what if the children are taken away and put in a home still you go to the police what if they put with a non-jewish family he writes still the go to the police because that's better than what's happening to them at the hands of a father who might be I mean it's it's horrific it's it's it's I incidentally maybe your listeners will be interested in this because as you can hear I feel passionately about this all sexual abusers abuse again it's never oneof yeah they're always repeat offenders there's no there's a brand new therapy which has just been developed which I'm extremely extremely excited about it's called the throw them out of an airplane over an act of volcano therapy and I personally believe that in fact the statistics seems to show an almost zero re offending I'm a big advocate of this David K says put them in jail and throw away the keys thank you very much R Ruben steu it's really a pleasure having you on thanks God bless take care take care bye-bye bye 50% of our population are the disa side women girls let's go to somebody who's dedicated his life towards working with girls who are struggling with today's challenges from New York Rabbi ISR grossberg who's the principal of benosa Academy and he's also the founder of alhad Welcome RAB grossberg thank you for having me RAB BG it's an honor can you tell us a little bit give us like a capsule of what does benosa do okay so is a high school for girls that have been uh asked to leave their school the schools that they're in as well as um girls that just have not you know they graduate Elementary School and haven't been accepted to any other school and have nowhere else to go so you're really you're really doing hashem's work here I take it I'd like to think so yes are you the only school in America that that sort of works with girls like this uh as far as I'm aware we're definitely the only school in America as well as um pretty much the world we have girls that come in from uh California from Eric Charles from England we've had girls from England uh recently so there really isn't another school that I'm aware of at least that's doing this kind of work a very difficult question because it's so broad what is the leading cause or slash causes of children to you know go off the Der substance abuse and you know the whole gamut of different issue what are the leading causes that that that is the million dollar question uh because if we could really isolate you know specific cause then we could hopefully eradicate it but unfortunately it's it's much broader than than you know than just one cause or even you know to narrow it down to two or three causes but if I had to really pinpoint the issues um it comes from students that are that lack self-confidence now that may sound like an oversimplification but lack self-confidence you know that's why you go the D but often that self lack of self-confidence comes from so many different places it could be the child who was bullied and just feels like you know they are nobody could be the child who uh perhaps in school was made to feel that they're you know second class it could be the child who through uh abuse or other unfortunate incidents in their lives would made to feel that they're second class but the you know this the current system that we have is one where you know we strive and as you know in many ways it should be we strive for Perfection but unfortunately falling short of that Perfection leads to a very deep inner turmoil to a teenager and that caused them to look for other places to get that uh that kishma what are the early warning signs because you know an ounce of prevention is always in life worth a pound of cure F you're a teacher or more likely listening a parent and you have a daughter what should send alarm bells to you so both the idea of seeing a student who's struggling um that you know their self-confidence has taken a hit um whether it be that you know they were normally they had been top of the class and all of a sudden Things Are are turning around they've been popular and things are going downhill uh these sometimes are you know indicators that you know not necessarily that anyone's going off but you know to be careful um and to find other ways for that child to feel good about themselves so if you have a student that's struggling um educationally so maybe get them art lessons so that they shine at Art send them to Camp so that they can be the one who um you know is head of drama Etc these kind of but giving them a feeling that yes I do belong yes you know maybe educationally scholastically I might not be top of the bunch but there are enough areas that I shine that I feel good about myself there's it's if I had this it's about the child a child who feels good about themselves you say will not go off the Derk and do drugs yeah again I mean it's hard always to make uh hard excep but that seems to they're not they're not looking for any alternative right is in terms of looking for for indicators that a problem is is you know is when they are looking for some of thing maybe it be to dress a certain way because then they're going to you know feel more special or to hang out with a certain crowd that might not be so appropriate but then they're going to feel special if they're looking for other ways to feel special that's you know an indication that there's something missing that they're filling in with perhaps you know not the best ways now your appearance so you say make your child feel better but let's say you pass that the child's on drugs what's the next step okay so I mean this is really one of the biggest challenges that many parents are facing because of um there really isn't much in the way of preparing parents for this and like it's almost putting someone on stage changing the script at the last second and expecting them to be an expert and it's it's very difficult um you know there's there really is it's difficult to say just accept accept accept because sometimes that sends the wrong message to the child as well um I've had students who say well shabas can't be that important because when I break it in front of my parents they still give me a hug and kiss therefore I I always push parents to to Really to work on this concept of acceptance that we accept them that doesn't mean that you have to approve of everything that they're doing so that was my next question going to be you sort of preempted me I know there are those who believe strongly acceptance acceptance acceptance but where do you draw the does acceptance have to have boundaries yeah I I believe that does and I think you know it's all about how those boundaries are presented you know if you sit a child down and really explain to them that it's not about them being bad they're not dressing sne Us in the house it's not about something they're doing wrong or something they're doing bad but rather something about just family Ru that we're trying to create um something that you know is more within the boundaries of you know the Comfort level of the family it's presented totally different it's not you're doing something wrong you're dressing inappropriately you're bad it's none of that it's more about how can we work together as a family unit to make everyone comfortable and I think that you know that presentation really is you know the key to um keeping that successful relationship with the child is there a good place to send girls for rehab that is within you know you know B Saba you know that is religious or is like are there any good religious rehab places um currently there are not that you know that I'm aware of and honestly it it's a tremendous risk you know when you send a child there because you're in a way saying that we're putting the yish K completely on the back burner but you know generally these are cases of and you that that's the proper thing to do based on the P of many that right now is not the time to worry about whether they're going to get hly solder or not but um it it's it's difficult it's very difficult and very painful to the parents you know I saw from Lord Rabbi saaks of England he said and I may be corrupting his sh a drop but he said the Ben har RHA says he says the Ben har RHA like you know as as do we believe that there are children who are R so he says the Ben har rash is telling you Mah he's saying you know ABA IMA Papa dad what he says what kind of funny a is this that how I feel about myself my needs my emotional health it doesn't seemed to be important it's become all about Riot and ritual he says what about the fact that I feel terrible about myself right that's how Hees which is very well if somebody go ahead I'm Sor I think a lot of that boils down to you know relationship with AES there's something that's lacking and not here obviously to to not the system B there there know thousands of and girls that are but at the end of the day so many of them don't even understand the concept of a relationship with and and that the yish K can be their yish kite and and I think you know that that speaks to a lot what we just said uh speaks a lot about you know why some people are so quick you know to to be 20 years they're keeping you know kasas and all of a sudden the next day they're reading Kaza it was never meaningful for them there was never a relationship there and that's I think something that needs to be worked on oh Rabbi grossberg the B should give you kay you do M you do the Reales something you can I'm sure you have that you can answer the phone on chabas anytime I'm sure you've received those but I wanted to on behalf of the whole to give you a big you should be amen thank you so much all the best by somebody who's been doing this for 19 years and has done thousands of interventions Aus of a woman R clapman from Brooklyn rukama clapman who's the founder and executive director of mask mothers and fathers allowing to save kids welcome Rama thank you can you tell us in a snapshot of what mask does sure um I started mask 19 years ago and it it it's for parents and Community neighbors family relatives abis reach out on our helpline um we have a heline for referrals we offer support groups um we're in the schools we do programs in the schools for the kids we have social work interns working with the kids in the schools uh for prevention and we have um staff trainings we do programs with many other agencies we collaborate and doing programs together on different mental health issues including drugs alcohol gambling internet addiction um and all mental health issues so R let me ask you what would you respond to parents who feel really horribly guilty they can't sleep at night they feel that they've done something wrong they may be right or very often they're wrong like you know it's just they live we live in a society that is particularly Treacher it's probably harder today to bring up kids than ever but what would you tell a parent like this who's just crying their eyes out to sleep every night they see their kids either on drugs off the DK whatever it be um talk to that from when I started mask we on the helpline parents call Daily we case manage every single day uh parents that call and um they call late uh in the old days uh where they'll call once the kid is already on drugs and they are crying on their pillows every day they've tried everything and our message is to those parents our message is what Dr twisky once said at one of our symposiums that it doesn't help to feel guilty there is no manual for parents you know how to raise children there no you know like recipe on what to do and what not to do every parent does the best they can and usually parents are the last to know when their kid is doing anything that is out of the family way so by the time parents do find out they're already either getting kicked out of school or they have bad friends and they kids didn't share with them so to those parents whose kids are further along to those parents I said stop beating yourself up call mask call another agency any agency that's working with families there are we can refer you to people in your neighborhood and whatever your family's direction from Kites uh whatever modern whatever it is that you want we will help get you the help you need in order to help your child whatever they're going through beating oneself up is just not going to make a change come dial our number uh is it okay if I give that our number absolutely masks number is 718 0400 parents could call Anonymous call up describe what's going on and we will help direct you we're trained in in all the areas in order to get you the help you need uh with your insurance no char for groups um whether it's rehab whether it's for the parent or the child or the siblings that are being affected don't sit at home and just cry crying you can dve in to Hill him daving is the most important but you need to do um your isad list which is going out and getting help years ago David we were not so lucky like we are today years ago over the years when I started mask there was no agencies out there when I started mask today we have many many many good professional people I'm a um board member of nefes international which has over 750 from therapist around the world I mean we can get people we get you know calls from around the world and our goal is to get the families help why would you say Rama to people who believe that the way to deal with them is with strictness or with yelling and anger how would you respond to that so my answer is that we are um we bring to our family what we're used to from our family growing up that's natural so if somebody is used to being you know our parents maybe were stricter or someone's parents you know if the parents are not on the same page let's say the mother says oh I I even though my child's M shabas even though my daughter's going dressed inappropriately I still want her to live at home I want to be nice to her I want to you know go with her on the street show that I'm proud of her even though um all those negative things that are going with against the family and the husband is saying no I want her out of the house I want him out of the house I don't want to deal with him I want to cut him off don't give him money our belief system is that mask his mothers and fathers aligned saving kids our belief system is both parents need to be on the same page whatever that page is going to be in order to help your kid turn around and get healthy and screaming yelling cutting them off I cannot begin to beg you enough to make you realize it doesn't work it'll just make them further and further and further away and should give you to continue your amazing work amen thank you David for bringing this to the public let's finish now with a success story and there are many and I personally know many we have with us on the phone from California Yehuda who is really really a remarkable story a boy who struggled mightily and put himself firmly back on his feet and I thought it was important to have him on the show because so many kids or parents they just lose hope that they could put it back together again so let's hear from a success story welcome Yehuda thank you thank you for allowing me this opportunity to uh share my experience with people out there that may be in similar situation as I you know I was about a year and a half ago that I was struggling immensely with different things in my life primarily substance abuse how did your parents deal with it they didn't take it too well at first and you know they I don't think they they knew what to do they were at a loss and uh as clueless as I was they were uh in a quandry themselves they didn't really how were you doing at school during this period I wasn't in school anymore it caused me to drop out around the age of 16 or so and you know went to work couldn't keep a job uh couldn't maintained friendships relationships anything of the sort and tell us where are you today so very quickly I I was I'm out here in California for a year plus already around 15 months but um thank God bar today I I have friends that I can never have imagined having people that really care and you know so what what message would you tell to either kids who are struggling or parents or just lay people who knows somebody who's struggling kids that are struggling I could I could just say one thing you know a lot of times it's hard for us to listen to to other people around us we think we know better we're all caught up in our delusions and things but we just have to know that you know there are people out there that really care for us Yuda thank you so much for sharing your story and Bren SCH should give you contined thank you so much it's my [Music] pleasure