Courage in the Chaos | Full Segment | Shabbos Kestenbaum & Nathaniel “Nate Buzz” Buzolic

All right. Well, good evening to all of our friends, supporters of Amu, wherever you find yourself in the world. We have people watching from the US, from Canada, from Israel, from Australia. We are joined today by someone who really needs no introduction, but nevertheless, I will introduce him. Uh, Nate Buzz. Nate is an actor. I will be honest, Nate, I have not seen The Vampire Vampire Diaries. My sisters have, though, and when I told them I would be speaking with you, they got incredibly excited and insisted I take a selfie with you. Um, Nate is not only an actor, though, he's an activist. And perhaps most importantly, he's he's a follower of God's word. And so, we're incredibly uh honored to have you, Nate. So, thank you so much. >> Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to uh this discussion. So, I'm going to ask you the classic question that no doubt you have been asked a thousand different times, but for for our listeners, we as Jews are used to anti-semitism. We're used to being hated and oppressed. And when I, for example, will talk on TV about why I support Israel, you know, my name is Shabis Kenbau. I wear a yarmaka. I'm from an Orthodox community. It's like, go figure, this guy likes Israel. But when we have a guy like Nate Buzz who, correct me if I'm wrong, does not have any immediate personal or familial attachments to Israel, we kind of are taken back in a very positive sense, but we're just so not used to it. So, I got to ask, what is it about Israel that drew you not only into supporting it, but to supporting it consistently? You've been there more than 55 times, which is more than most Jews have ever been to Israel. >> Yeah. Uh, look, it's like anything when God is building out a person or a story, there's um there's a lot that goes into it, you know. So, like the short answer of why I support Israel is, you know, really my my deep uh connection to the word of God, you know, reading the Torah, the Tanakh, and for me as a Christian, the New Testament, you know, I was profoundly impacted by the covenantal relationship that God has with this people uh that can be tracked through human history. Um, now I wasn't always a believer. Uh, I was born in Australia. Uh, my mom was actually born in a refugee camp in Egypt. Oh, wow. So, I was a first generation Australian. And, uh, when I became a Christian, I was exposed to, you know, uh, the biblical narrative, which is a very, very complicated book. Uh, which I think many people will agree watching this, sometimes we're we're overwhelmed by the daunting challenge of trying to understand this text that's been written over 1500 years. um by many many different authors but but really pointing to one reality which is the sovereignty of the God of Israel and the story that he's telling >> uh with his love for a people but also his plan to >> essentially break the rebellion that humanity has had against him since the beginning uh and to bring everything into its fullness which would ultimately be called tomeod it's you know the the goodness of what God really created which we can't really see in 2025 but we're starting to understand how God is telling us this story. So for me it started with that. Um now as a as a Christian I wanted to understand the Jewishness of Jesus. Um and so in 2017 I went to Israel for the first time and my goal was to understand Yeshua. But I was confronted with what was currently happening in our world today which is this conflict between Arab Palestinians and Israelis about what the real story is. uh and the conflict that's unfolding in this land. I grew up in a very Muslim majority community in Sydney, Australia. So my understanding of Israel came from an very ArabIlamic perspective to begin with. So you can only imagine when I first went to Israel in 2017, I was like everything I've been told doesn't match. In fact, it was almost as if everything I've been told was this. everything that people were saying about apartheid, you know, genocide, occupation was almost the opposite. And I looked at this Jewish Israeli identity and I was amazed at uh their resilience and also heartbroken at how the world has lied so much about them. So I I spent the next eight years just going back to Israel, learning, understanding. I was leading Christian tours. Um, and so in 2023 when October 7th happened, I felt that everything that I'd done for the the previous seven years really led me to a place of knowledge, understanding, and uh, responsibility. I realized that very few people would stand up with the Jewish and Israeli identity purely because it comes at a cost just as it comes at a as a cost to to being a Jew and identifying as a Jew. You know, walking down the street, you have to make the choice. Am I going to wear my yarmaka? Am I going to be looked at differently? Am I going to be targeted by different groups? What do people think of me when I walk into a room? There's a cost to everything that you do. And I realized that there was going to be a great cost for anyone who stood with Israel during these days. Um, but it was something I was I was willing to um to pay. >> And so, yeah, it's it's, you know, I'll say this, the last two years has been probably the hardest two years of my life, without a doubt. uh so many challenges uh so much heartbreak, disappointment and betrayal and you know being exposed to the heightened human wickedness of the world, a world that's morally bankrupt. Um but at the same time I have seen the glory of Hashem over and over and over again. So the hardest year of my life has also or the last two years of my life has also been the best two years of my life. >> I mean there there's so much there to unpack. I I want to focus on that last part though because I think at least the Jewish audience who's watching, they can certainly relate to to the costs. Whether it's the campus uh Jewish student who lost friends for their support to Israel, whether it was the Jewish student on the subways of New York getting physically assaulted, we can certainly relate to that. You have have a different set of costs and a different price that that you paid. One of the things that Amu does really well, which I think attracted us to support this organization was they do mental health counseling. It's not just uh drug addiction recovery. It's not just domestic violence, but for people who are really struggling with mental health. And I think one of the things that our religious communities have in common is mental health is still very much a stigma. It's not really something that people want to talk about out in the open or perhaps they're embarrassed by it. But I guess if you're comfortable sharing, given that you're so noticed, you're so public on those front lines, how do you manage from from a mental health perspective to just keep going and to talk about the truth even if or especially when it is incredibly difficult and comes with those sacrifices? >> Yeah. Look, mental mental health is um I wouldn't even call it mental health. I I would say have you built a mental toughness to a to a callous world? >> You know, if you can conquer your mind and you can control how you how you think, how you talk to yourself and how you perceive the world, it changes everything. The problem is I think we get so internal in ourselves um that we lose focus of what our real task is, you know. And so for me, I've I've I've learned um you know, through lived experience how to really control my mind and and I know that everything starts in here. If I can conquer this, then nothing outside of me is impossible. Um and that's really the case for a lot of people. You know, there's a few things that I that I've implemented. And I I' I've lived a very very interesting life becoming an actor. I I grew up very very poor. Uh low social economic family was just me and my mom. Uh my dad left when I was a little kid and I learned very very quickly that no one's coming to help me. >> I'm gonna have to learn how to look after myself and um and build a resilience to a world that isn't so friendly. You know, when you're a kid, you have this idea in your head that the world's beautiful. It's amazing place. But from 12 years old, I started working, supporting my mom, uh who had an extremely difficult and challenging life. Um and I I think I became an adult really really quickly. Um but but it taught me some really really valuable lessons uh about what it takes to mentally overcome challenges. And the beauty of it is I look back at my my difficult childhood now and I'm actually grateful for it cuz it built something in me that prepared me for something much much bigger. >> Um so I think that's kind of like you know been one of the big parts of my journey is trying to conquer the mind. Um, but more importantly, when you think about it, we're purpose- driven creatures. Most people that fall into depression have no purpose. And if they do have a purpose, their purpose is anchored to somebody else or per or or or some other thing that they can't control, but that controls them. And so, I think really from a spiritual point of view, what's given me a lot of strength is my relationship with God, you know, Hashem. Um, I'm a Christian, so my relationship with with Yeshua has really kind of cut away a lot of the rubbish of the mental health thing. And I just have a purpose, and I can achieve that purpose every single day, regardless of my uh financial status, regardless of my health status, regardless of my, you know, social status. Um, because ultimately what we're called to do as people is to be reflectors of the divine. and and he has this divine love which he's revealing through Israel. It's a covenantal love, but it's uh I guess the the word that I would use in Hebrew is, right, which is this faith faithful love. When you're when you're able to serve him and your purpose is him, and I often say there's only one audience that I care about, and that's his. >> If I can please him, then everything else will fall into place. And so I think that's a big part of my mental kind of challenge of constantly simplifying my life and saying this is my task to be a representative of Hashem in this world. And I know I can do that regardless of any situation I find myself in. Whether I'm on a bus, whether I'm defending Israel online, uh whether I'm talking to a stranger about dealing with the loss of a loved one, I can answer all those questions by relying on him and his wisdom and his knowledge, which we find in the Torah. So I'll give you an example. I'm an actor and I've had the opportunity to receive a lot of fame which the world values so much, right? You're an influencer. You have millions and millions of followers. That must be an amazing feeling. And one rule I made myself because I was I grew up with nothing and I had no no exposure to this kind of world. I always said to myself, if I ever got to a place where I was influencing people, I would never take it seriously. >> And what do I mean by that? People can say really, really nice things about me and I'll appreciate it, but I won't take it as my value system. And I'll tell you why I don't do that. Because if I'm going to take the good compliments seriously, guess what else I have to do? Take the bad compliments, the criticism seriously. And so when I remove both, then I'm free from that world of does the world like me? And a lot of people they they live for the validation of the world but they will ultimately die from its rejection. >> Wow. >> And so when you let yourself go from all that and say that's my purpose is him. You know >> I I I mean in Hebrew the we have a term for influencer mashpia literally one who influences but we don't use it in the context of someone with millions of social media followers. We say anyone can be an influencer. You're an educator. You're you're someone who imparts wisdom onto others. You are a mashia. you are one who influences others and anyone can literally do it. Um I think one of the many things that uh your answer sort of galvanized in my mind was the quote from the book of psalms of though even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the death I do not fear because god is with me and I I think you personify that tremendously that you are facing so many attacks from so many sides and on so many different platforms it's not just on the online space it's also directly it's in person I mean you were telling me that uh often times you have to carry you have to carry a gun with you. So I guess I mean there are so many things I want to ask you but but first and foremost because you mentioned that you're you're on this online battle as well. >> What message would you want to tell our listeners or those who are trying to defend Israel online as well? either words of encouragement or practically what are things that we should be doing different, things that we need to be doing better because it's quite obvious that while Israel is certainly winning on a militaristic lens, the battlefields of Gaza or Yemen or Lebanon, it's also true that they are losing tremendously the battle of ideas, the battles in the campuses, on the streets, in the court of public opinion. >> Yeah. And there's a lot of reasons for that. you know, over the last, you know, 24 months, I've really had time to to think about how we got here, uh, from, you know, uh, a narrative point of view, when you look at, you know, what Israel is presenting to the world and what the, uh, propagandists of the Palestinian movement present to the world. And like, first and foremost, it's much easier to tell a lie than it is to tell the truth. >> So, the pro Palestinians already have an advantage because they can say whatever they want, however they want. And even if they get caught in the lie, it seems like it doesn't really matter. >> Um, but you know, more than that, culturally, what I've realized is the Jewish identity and the culture of the Jewish identity isn't really fit to explain to a world who they are to people who don't understand them because you're a closed practice belief system. You're not in the business of converting. So, you've never actually had to learn how to talk to people that don't believe what you believe, but to convince them to believe what you believe in such a way that they would completely change their minds. You know, when you think about the history of the Jewish identity, particularly after being exiled uh from the Roman Empire, you went and you disappeared into the world. And it was for your benefit that you would almost hide from society. So everything was closed and quiet because you didn't want to experience the horrific nature of what humans do when they realize the Jewish identity is amongst us and they make up all these lies and propaganda that we're seeing over and over and over and over again. So that's one of the disadvantages of the Jewish identity. Um because as a Christian, as a Muslim, as soon as you become a believer in that framework, go and share it with everybody. M >> but more importantly go and share it with people who are not your own. So you get very very comfortable in having conversations about how to influence people in what you truly believe. The other thing I would say is this and this is a criticism of the world. You know I speak at a lot of Jewish events and I can see the Jewish identity really struggling with why is the world so against us and why can't they see the truth? And so I've created an equation, a formula to help the Jewish identity understand where we're at in the world. And so the formula is this. Why are the Palestinians so successful in their narrative? When stupid people talk to stupid people, stupid people understand. [laughter] And I say that with absolute confidence because when you think about the narrative of the Palestinian movement, they have no facts, but they're great storytellers in the sense of from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. Which wid which river? Which sea? Who cares? It doesn't matter. It's catchy. And you know the whole idea of the oppressor and the occupier, you know, this ancestral identity of the Jewish people, okay, like everyone wanted to kick them out uh from Europe, kick them out of their kick them out of Europe and they send them away and then they get back into Israel. Like, no, you can't be there either. Well, where are they supposed to go? You know, I often say that the Arab uh nations in 1948 were the original Zionists >> because they kicked out every single Jewish identity from every single place they could find them. They were spurring on the reality of a Jewish state being formed and helped increase the influx of the Jewish people who would be returning to the land out of their hatred. They're true Zionists. But this is the problem that the Jewish identity face. And the other thing is when you you know if you've had enough time with Jews and Israelis, you realize you guys are high level thinkers by default. Maybe it's a blessing from Hashem. Maybe it's just a culture of learning and study through the Torah and the Tanakh. Either way, Jewish people are high level thinkers. And so when you're talking to a world on a high level, it's sometimes hard to talk to that average person who doesn't really think on that on that spectrum. And so this is one of the biggest challenges I think that Israel faces. On top of that, what goes against you so often is your mercy and compassion. And and we've seen this since the beginning of the war, you know, uh October 7th and the horrific nature of the massacre that was unfolding before our eyes was something that I'll never be able to remove from my mind. The images uh what Hamas did. But Israel chose not to show the worst videos. They chose not to release these horrific uh pictures and videos to the world because they cared more about the victims and the families having to maybe see that than the people who inflicted these horrible acts of violence. Now, on the other hand, if you and I were watching what was happening in Gaza, for every single person that was taken into a hospital, there would be 25 DLSR cameras filming it, shooting it, retaking it. It was almost as if they were picking up these children and to shoot it again because they needed to get the perfect shot. And they didn't care about the child in their hands as much as they cared about getting the shot, getting back to Wi-Fi, posting it, and claiming that they're this victim and look what's happened to these children. They don't care about the children. You know, I watched a video of um um his name is Motaz or something like this. Uh he blocked me on Instagram. He was a a journalist in Gaza. And I remember that's how you know you're doing the right thing when they block you on. >> Yeah. Yeah. cuz I'll go at them on on social media. And he was holding this baby in his arm while he was while he was kind of driving and he was trying to film and the baby's head is just flopping. And I thought to myself, you are the definition of scum because you do not care about this innocent Gazen child who has been born into jihadism >> more than you care about getting the shot and telling a story. because if you did, you would put that camera on the floor. You would hold this child like it should be held and you should actually care about it, but you don't care about them. You care about getting the shot. That is an evil that the world can't even fathom, but yet we allow it to exist. >> So, so can I delve deeper on that for a second? Many Jews, certainly in the Orthodox community, we would agree with the diagnosis of the problem that you just outlined. And then we'll say, well, the Hebrew Bible kind of prophesies that. The Hebrew Bible said that so long as Jews are living in exile, which we are currently in, whether you're living in Israel or not, we don't have a third temple. The Messiah has not come, so we're in exile. The Bible says three things will be true. You'll be small in number. Check. You'll be scattered across the world. Check. And you'll be hated. And it will be an irrational hate, but you will always be hated. And in fact in last week's Torah portion paras told us we have this new terminology of as sona esakov that as of and his descendants will always have this almost existential onological hatred towards the descendants of of Jacob the Jewish people. And so a lot of Jews will say yes it's just so terrible and the world is celebrating this culture of death and jihadism but it is what it is. And and the Hebrew Bible you know it predicted this 3,000 years ago and we see anti-semitism. It's just a merely a manifestation of what God said 3,000 years ago. So I just I'm I'm curious as a Bible believing Christian, how much of this anti-semitism battle, especially visav Israel Palestine, how much of it do you think is part of this greater spiritual plan? Or is this just like really bad politics and just the world not being able to see the truth? Or do you think, you know, God is is behind this in a very real way? >> Oh, go God is sovereign over all things. And what God allows is human wickedness to unfold for two reasons. One, it exposes the darkness of our hearts by default, which means we need an actual transformation. You know, the Torah talks about God giving the Israelites a new heart, not a heart of stone, but a heart of flesh. And I think the world is so dark that God is revealing our wickedness so that when everything is said and done, not a single person will ever say, "I want to go back to that version of the world." Right? God is building out um uh a testimony against humanity, allowing us to choose, right? allowing us to choose self, ego, wickedness, pride, all these things so that we can actually understand that apart from him, we are not good. So that's the first part. But the other part is God will use human wickedness for his glory. Right? We see this in the story of Pharaoh, you know, and you can see the parallels between the Exodus story and and what's happening over the last, you know, two years in Israel. We have a pharaoh that from the very beginning of the story creates a narrative that if the Hebrews get any bigger and stronger, another army could come along and they could join force with them and they could destroy us. So there was a fear of the Hebrews even though there was no evidence for that. And his hardened heart would drive him to persecute and hate this Jewish identity. And even though the plagues would keep coming and his people would keep suffering, he [snorts] would keep choosing the same path. >> Even until the very last plague. Now, what was the very last plague that would be inflicted on the Egyptians? >> Death of the firstborn. >> Firstborn children. Whatever. What does everybody talk about? Oh, the children in Gaza. The children in Gaza. Well, yes. The children in Gaza are suffering because of the hardened hearts of Hamas and their parents. because they've committed to jihad and they don't celebrate life like you do. You may think that they just want what you want, but you would be absolutely mistaken in your analysis of what the people of Gaza want. They celebrate death. In fact, you know, um um he's one of the hostages who was released after 491 days. I got to interview him and he he lived in a a kabutz and he believed in coexistence with the Palestinians and he was in a tunnel and he would have conversations with these Hamas terrorists and the one thing he told me is he was shocked at how completely different they view the world that these people really do celebrate and live for death and Israelis truly live and celebrate life. This is why the expression I'm Israel high is such a powerful statement because it's really what drives the Jewish identity. We want life. And what's one of the key features or components of life? Creating. Now, you're a people that was chosen by Hashem and Hashem is the creator of all things. So, it makes sense that the people he chose would reflect his creative ability. And when you think about Israel as a nation, it's the startup nation of the world. They have the ability to see a problem, solve a problem, and create solutions. I mean, even this conversation, they see a problem with mental health. They say, "Hey, we got to fix it. We've got to solve it, and we've got to create something to help people for life." Now, what's the counterweight to uh a spirit of creation? If you could give one word, what's the opposite of creating? >> Destruction. >> Destruction. Ah, so now it makes sense why the Palestinians are driven to destroy a Jewish state. They have no desire to create. They only know how to destroy. And we're seeing these two people groups side by side as if God is saying, "Look at the difference." It's almost as if we're standing listening to Moses talk to the Israelites before they enter into the promised land. And he says, "Today I present to you life or death, the blessing or the curse." And he says, "Please, please choose life." >> But I think the world's being given a choice right now. We can choose the culture of life, which is Judaism, and the Jewish identity, or we can choose the culture of death, which is jihadism. Jihadism. Judaism. The world will get to choose. But be careful what you choose because whatever you choose is going to be what you're going to have to deal with. >> You're either going to get a people who create or a people who destroy. >> Right? I I have to flex for a second because my Instagram bio actually has that quote. It's Deuteronomy 3:19 of choose life. And and that's kind of in my opinion that to me personifies the Israeli Palestinian conflict where I believe the leading cause of death for Palestinians is just really bad choices and insisting on electing leaders who believe like Muhammad, like Yahwa Sinoir that the greatest weakness of the Jews is they love life where we love death. And it reminds me of this excellent book, If It Takes a Thousand Years, where this author, Jesse Petrilla, he's interviewing a senior Taliban commander who had his, you know, arm blown off and he's injured. He's in a cage. And Jesse asks him, you know, why don't you just surrender? Why why do you keep fighting? How long will this take? And the senior Taliban commander looks at him and says, you know, if I don't have the privilege of of finishing this war, then my kids will fight you. My kids' kids will fight you, even if it takes a thousand years. And I think that's what so many in the west are struggling to rationalize that there are legitimate cultures out there in this world who really don't want peace and really don't want coexistence and like evil is like an actual tangible thing and Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, Iran, they they symbolize they actually are like evil incarnate. Um >> so I I think I think you totally nailed it. Let me let me go back though to what >> I want to ask you a question though because I want to I want to kind of drive home what we were talking about. Uh, if I had the ability to change your identity at the end of this interview, you're no longer Jewish. Would you give it up? >> My Jewish identity? No, for sure not. >> Why not? >> Well, we we have the concept of Yahar Valyavore. Better to be killed than to actually do uh do that thing. Judaism is not a component of my identity. It is my identity. And I don't view my Judaism as something that's relegated to the synagogue or the study hall or in prayer. Judaism is life itself. So my interactions in the professional world and in business, my interactions as a friend and as a son and as a brother, they are all constantly influenced by my Jewish identity. So you take that away, then who am I? >> And you know, I I asked I've asked every single Jewish person I know this question and they've all given the same response, never. But it tells you something. what you believe is inherently gifted to you, didn't work for it. You were born Jewish, has value, a deep value, a value that you would hold on to at all costs. You'd never give it up. And that's the powerful and beautiful thing about, I think, the Jewish people, but more specifically, whatever God decided. And when he chose Abraham, he put something inside of the Jewish soul that says, "What you have is not easy, >> but it's valuable. It's valuable because you know at the very core of your soul that you have a connection to the creator that you'd never want to give up. When you find that connection, your value no longer comes from what you do, how much money you make, what car you drive. Your value comes from something much, much deeper. It's this divine connection where humanity and Hashem connect. And that's really what drives everything in my life, in my purpose, uh, in who I am. If I lost every single follower tomorrow, who cares? As long as I don't lose that connection, I'm the richest man on the planet. >> Wow. And that's so marketkedly different from what our culture dictates. Our culture would say, "No, you actually do base and measure your value based on the followers and based on the car you're driving or the money in your bank account." But you're making the argument that I'm I'm so emphatic and in agreement of that. No, no, no. It's not about the externalities. It's about your internal values. It's about your relationship with God. It's striving to create a more perfect world. And I think that's what our society is so clearly missing. Um- which brings me to what I want to to ask you and this might be shifting the conversation a little bit. Um, but we briefly were speaking about Charlie Kirk and whether one agrees or disagrees with his politics. He was clearly an influential male figure on so many Gen Z men. And I always say that Charlie is the closest thing that Gen Z Christians um would ever have to a facetic rabbi in the sense of if you were to watch his debates on college campuses, they weren't just asking questions on immigration or tariffs or the economy. They would say, you know, what is the type of woman I should be dating? What is the type of church I should be praying in? And um I think a lot of Gen Z men, the data kind of supports this, are incredibly lost. I mean, Christians, Jews, people are looking for answers. And we are seeing for the very first time that Gen Z is actually more religious, more observant than their parents. Yeah. Usually it's the opposite that the the younger you are, the less likely are to be engaged in your religious faith in your religious traditions. So I guess I'm I'm curious what would your message be to whoever is watching, Jews, Christians, young people, you know, why is faith so important for the flourishing of a society? Why is faith so important in these incredibly confusing and dark moments? Well, first of all, I would say Charlie was one of the best examples of what I think true Christianity was. Um, particularly in America. You know, the one thing I appreciate appreciate about Charlie is not the sound bites, but how he saw every single person. He would see every single person and he would give them his time equally. Um, and that's really what his life was about. It was about bringing people into something better, right? and he sacrificed his entire life in order that people might come to know that they can actually transcend who they currently are through the lens of faith. You know, people often said, you know, talked about what Charlie would think about Israel or whatnot. And, you know, we spoke about this before we went on on on camera, but Charlie had only ever only ever been to Israel twice in his lifetime. He's not an expert. It takes many, many, many, many, many, many more trips and uh many more experiences to actually really understand Israel because we're talking about one of the longest histories of a people, but we're also talking about, you know, an Israeli identity that is against >> and I didn't think it would be a thing that was like buzz enough to make it so confusing that you really have to start digging and you have to spend a lot of time there to understand it. So, what I appreciated about Charlie was this. He'd only been to Israel twice. And yet, he supported Israel because I know he read his Bible. And the Bible is very, very clear that God's covenantal with Israel will not be broken. It's an unbreakable covenant. The covenant he made to Abraham, the covenant he made to Isaac, the covenant he made to to Jacob, the covenant he confirms throughout the prophets. You know, even uh in the book of Deuteronomy, Moses will talk about God's faithful love to Israel for a thousand generations. So, let's just say, you know, hypothetically, one generation is, you know, 40 years. If we have a thousand generations, that's 40,000 years. How long has the Jewish calendar been in effect? >> Less than that. We're talking >> about 5,700 something like this. So, that tells me >> 782. >> Okay. So, that tells me we've got another 35,000 years before we can even begin to question God's faithfulness. >> Now, for a Jew, that should make you feel like God's still with me. >> For a Christian, that should make me go, "Wow, I better understand Israel because he still loves them. It's the apple of his eye." In fact, he called Abraham his friend, beloved friend. And so if Abraham is his beloved friend and you are the descendants of Abraham, he has a deep relationship with you, an unfinished business. Um, now in terms of what advice I would give, there's a lot of things I could say when I look at Charlie's life. I I think what made him a great man was his belief in in Yeshua and and his conviction to be less of himself and more of who Yeshua represented to us as Christians. You know, the whole idea of the Tanakh and human rights comes from this one line in Genesis 126 where God says, "Let us make man in our image." >> Right? So, we're imagebearers of the divine. And so I think when you stop thinking about you and you start thinking about how I represent God for me as a Christian, how I represent the Messiah, all of a sudden my framework, my perception, my goals become completely different and I become free. But more than that, I tend to do more. I mean, when I look at the last two years of my life, if I had have said to myself in 2017 when I first went to Israel that I'm going to be uh a voice of an entire nation, uh a defender of the Jewish identity and the Jewish faith, the first nonJewish, non-Israeli person to light the torch on Independence Day, I would have said, "No way. It's not possible." But I've achieved so much and I've shown what love looks like to millions of people because I haven't thought about myself. >> Wow, >> that's powerful, right? What happens is we get in our own way and we start thinking of what I should do for me and how I should look after myself. There's a, you know, a line that I hate. I don't believe in self- loveve. I think that's a myth. >> I think it's a line. >> We have to circle back to that >> and we can circle back to that. But I don't believe I don't believe in self-love. And people often say,"Well, how can you love others if you haven't loved yourself first?" And my argument would be, "What would you love about yourself if you haven't loved others first?" >> Think about it. >> Wow. >> Oh, I like my hair. I like how I look. I like my fashion. Boring. No one cares about that. You know what the world is inspired by? People like Charlie Kirk. because you could see that he loved others more than his own self-servicing needs. And he he's all of a sudden elevated to a point where people go, "Wow, I want to be like him." And the beautiful thing is you can be, but you have to give everything of yourself up first. >> So how do you understand the verse then love your neighbor like yourself? >> Yeah, exactly. But think about the the context of that that statement. Love your neighbor like yourself. And there's a deep desire to go, oh well, I got to love myself, right? But that's not what the verse is saying. It says, love your neighbor as if it was you. So the question is really asking, if you were in that situation, how would you want to be loved by another? >> It's a it's a transfer, right? This is what true love is. It's the transfer from one party to another party where the other party doesn't want anything back from this party. They just want to elevate that person. Right? This is what love is. It's a it's an exchange from one party to another. There's a famous verse in uh Jeremiah where where Hashem says, "My people have committed two evils against me." I think you might know what I'm talking about. First, you've denied my living water, and then you've tried to create systems for yourself that don't hold any water. Right? Now I think about it because rabbis, the sages will have debates about what are the two great commandments, right? Some will say love your neighbor as yourself and others will say love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your strength. Right? So the two great commandments in the Torah is about loving Hashem or loving others. Right? And the two evils that Jeremiah identifies is rejecting this love and also trying to keep love for yourself, but it can't hold. Now, if I ask someone the question, okay, I'm going to give you a choice of two, but you can only choose one of them. You can either choose to love yourself for the rest of your life, but you'll never receive love from another person. Or you'll receive ample amount of love from other people, but you'll never be able to love yourself. You don't have to love yourself. What would you choose? >> Oh, man. >> Think about it. Right. >> That's a tough one. I think people have an intrinsic desire to be givers rather than receivers. >> Exactly. And we also know that when someone actually loves you, it is so much more powerful than when you just love yourself. Now, do I believe in self-v valueue? Yes, absolutely. I don't believe in self-love, but I do believe in self-value. But where does my value come from? >> I'm an image bearer. It's that intrinsic thing that I asked you earlier, like would you ever give up your juda? No, because I know it's valuable and it's inside of me and I didn't pick it. I didn't choose it and I didn't work for it. It's just inside of me and I know it's valuable. So, I believe in valuing yourself, but I don't believe it's possible to love yourself because what happens is when you start loving yourself, you're just this and that's it. That's your world and you only see you. And the extreme version of self-love, we have a word for it, narcissist. It's attractive. No. Right. Have you ever looked at a person like Charlie Kirk, like those who sacrifice everything for someone else and been like, they're a horrible person. What do you say about them? >> Well, clearly they didn't know who Charlie was, but I digress. >> You'd be like, "That person is amazing." So, it tells me the more I love, the more people will be like, "Wow, that is a a great human being." >> The trap is to love yourself. The lie is to love yourself. >> So I I have to ask and we were sort of talking this talking about this behind the scenes, but when you go to Israel and just people are throwing themselves at you in awe, in appreciation, in love, do you get uncomfortable when they say that? Because to you, it's sort of you're sort of suggesting that this is just intrinsic to who you are. When when you read the Bible and you see that this is God's chosen people, not that chosen means better. It does not. It just means different. To you, it's like this is obvious that I would be doing this. So, it almost would seem like you'd be weirded out that people would thank you and give you an honor and say, "Hey, can you light the torch for Israeli Independence Day?" Like, how do you how do you navigate that emotional complexity? >> Absolutely. So, we just you just mentioned uh that the chosen people is not better. It actually means you have a greater responsibility, right? A greater responsibility to what? >> Others. To right. To perfect. Well said. >> So, so here's the amazing thing. When people come to me, I don't look at it like, "Ah, yeah, I'm Nate Buzz." Like, like, "Yes, I stood up for your nation and everybody wants to kill me and I lost my career." No. When people come to me and say, "Thank you, I want to look them in the eyes and I want to see them on their level and I want to love them and I want to remind them of something that's far greater than my love, his love." And so, so often people say, "Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. We we we will never, you know, Israel will never forget this." I like, "Stop. This is what I want you to do instead. Next Shabbat, uh, next, uh, you know, shishi dinner, when you're lighting your candles, when you're with your family, don't thank me. Thank Hashem that he raised me up. Right now, I'm transferring the glory cuz who deserves the glory? God. Could I have done it without him? Impossible. And I wouldn't have because I would if I was with void of my relationship with God who makes me look up, not look down. Then I would have only thought about me and I would have been self-servicing. That is why so many people support the Palestinian movement today because it makes them feel good. Because they get the validation from millions rather than a few. >> They get 1.9 billion Muslims going, "Wow, you're amazing." You see the Palestinian jihadist movement for what it is. Murderers, rapists, and kidnappers. You're so amazing. And they're like, "Yes, yes. I'm a great human and I love give me more. Give me more. Yes. Destroy Israel. Ah, give me more." Whereas I'm doing the opposite, getting hated by the world, but I know that I'm pleasing the father. >> Wow. And so again, it's just like, you know, my my journey to Israel is a lot more complicated. Uh so I'll I'll take you to this. Before I first went to Israel, I went to Iraq. Uh I was working on a very very popular TV show called The Originals. Uh I was a successful actor. I had money. I had fame. I had everything that the world says will make you happy. But I had just come off the back of a very, very heartbreaking relationship. I was dating a French Moroccan girl for 3 years and she cheated on me with a very very famous uh musician. Shattered my heart, broken. And that's the kind of irony of life, right? You can be loved by the world, but if the person you love has done something to betray you, nothing matters anymore. >> And I was in so much pain that I wanted my life to end. >> Not because I didn't value my life, but I wanted the pain to stop on the inside. And I couldn't stop thinking about this betrayal. I was so heartbroken. and having a good job and and having a good career and having money in the bank and having fame meant nothing at that point in time because my heart felt so completely crushed and broken. So, I had a big dilemma. How do I marry ending my life without quitting? Because I have this personality where I hate to quit. And so, I'm like, I'm not going to commit suicide because I I can't I don't like quitting, but I also don't want to live anymore. So, how do I marry those worlds? And so I was sitting in Los Angeles in between filming one day and I put on the TV and I was watching the Iraq Syrian civil war with ISIS just running rampant throughout the Middle East. And I remember watching this one video of this young boy sitting in the back of an ambulance after an air strike covered in blood. And uh my heart broke for him. But then I had an idea, like an epiphany. Go to Iraq. I can go. It's dangerous. Maybe maybe uh God will do me a favor and end this life a little bit quicker and it can be all be said and done. No one will know the the why I went or what what I was doing and I and I thought this is a great solution. So I started reaching out to nonprofits in Iraq and one reached back and said yes we would be happy to have you but it's quite dangerous. Perfect. >> Wow. >> Uh I told my agent, my manager, Warner Brothers uh that I had a commitment that I couldn't get out of and I needed two weeks off of filming. I told my mom I was going to Greece. I wrote up a will. Had the whole plan. The the last person I saw on the I was working on originals and I there was a girl that I worked with called Clea Halt and I said, "Clear I just want to let you know I'm going to Iraq tonight. Flying from Atlanta to Turkey, Turkey to Iraq and probably not coming back." She's like, "What are you doing? Are you crazy?" I'm like, "No, just, you know, I'm on a mission." So I get to Iraq. I land in uh you know a a dusty, broken down airport in the middle of the night. And I think we landed at 3:00 a.m. I have my beats on, ripped jeans, and I think I'm going to get kidnapped in the first half an hour. Like, this is going to be so quick and easy. I'll end up on a video with a bunch of, you know, ISIS guys, and I'll be wearing an orange jumpsuit. And they'll be confused why I'm smiling the whole time. You know, I really was just committed to the cause. I get picked up by this Arab guy. He says, "Are you Nate Buzz?" I'm like, "Yeah." He's like, "Get in." It's like, "Beautiful. Get in." And then, you know, I get to meet the organization like, "We're in the green zone. Everything's safe." And I said, "No, no, no, no, no. I didn't come just to stay in the green zone. Let's go to where the action is. So I um we did some crazy things. Uh we did some really really crazy things. I was, you know, some days I was 20 minutes from Mosul while ISIS was camped down in Mosul. This is 2016. And you can go back to my Instagram and you can see all these photos from Iraq. Nobody knew I had a death wish. And there were days where I was standing on rooftops and you know the Peshmega fighter that was with us was like you need to get down cuz we don't know if there's snipers. There's like IEDs still in this area. There was dead ISIS soldiers around and I just did not care. I did not care. And then a few days later I was in a refugee camp uh working with Yazidi children who had lost everything. Watch their parents be murdered, you know, sisters be raped or kidnapped. Very similar stuff to what Hamas did on October 7th. But this is ISIS and the same mentality, this radical Islamic mentality. And I just heard horrible story after horrible story after horrible story until I went out into a dusty field. And I remember just crying out to Hashem saying, "Take my life. I don't want it anymore. I'm done. This world is ugly. It's broken. There's just so much wickedness and evil. And I feel so much pain on the inside. I just want it to end." And all I remember is a very, very loud whisper to the depths of my heart that said, "If you're that willing to give up your life, give it to me. What's the difference?" >> Wow. >> And it's like playing chess with Hashem. And you think you have like, "I'm done." And he's like, "Checkmate. Give me your life. What's the difference?" Because in that moment of time, I realized if everything I was saying was true, I don't care about my life. I don't care if I'm loved. I don't care if I'm hated. I don't care if I'm rich. I don't care if I'm poor. I don't care if I end up alone. I don't care if the world hates me. I don't care if someone just spits in my face. Nothing matters to me anymore. Then God was right. What's the difference between me taking your life right now or you giving me your life? Everything. Cuz the result doesn't matter. And then bang, shalom. I felt peace. And I was like, "Wow, you're right. Nothing matters now. I just serve you." So, okay. It's yours. Whatever you want. Whatever you want, God. You asked me to, you know, fly to Nigeria. You asked me to fly to, you know, uh, [snorts] Vegas and preach the gospel. You asked me to go to Israel. Whatever you want, I'll do it moving forward and I won't ask questions. So, I went back uh to America. I felt a huge sense of peace and I read the entire Torah, the Tanakh, and the New Testament in 28 days. >> Wow. >> And this is where my whole life shifted. Why? because I just read all of God's word and I just found out who he really is. This God that saves. Now, you know what's amazing? I got to the part where uh Elahu is on the run after, you know, doing this unbelievable event by bringing raining down fire to show these false prophets that the God of Israel is actually, you know, ruling and reigning, you know, and he's on the run hiding in a cave. And what was amazing is when I read this verse, Elahu says, "God, I don't want to live anymore. I'm no better than my father's." And you know what God does? He sends an angel. He makes him breakfast. And he sends him on another task. And I was just like, "Wow." Now, remember, I'm in Iraq. Where does Abraham originally come from? >> Right. >> Iraq. He's in Mesopotamia. >> Uhhuh. And so a few months later, I'm sitting in church and that same voice, which is a whisper to the heart, but you can't challenge it because it's, you know, it's not you. Says, "Go to Israel." Chapter 12 of Genesis, what's the para called? >> I think that's vira. >> Go. >> Oh, go. That's all I remember hearing. Go. And so that started the entire journey. Now, here's what's amazing. I went to Israel in 2017 on the 8th of May is when I first arrived. And I knew I had a purpose to know him, to understand the Jewishness of Jesus. But then I was exposed to this whole other story. And I would spend the next seven years of my life just trying to understand Israel, the Jewish people. And I'd never met a Jew before. I'd never spent time with Jews. I never went to synagogues. that I would just find myself sitting in the back of synagogues understanding, listening, learning about these people, learning about what the Arabs are saying, learning about what the Israelis are saying, learning about the independence war, the six- day war, the Yonipore war, just trying to understand everything. And I had no idea what I was doing the whole time until October 7th. And then all of a sudden, it all made sense. Everything came into play. Now, I told you I was the first non-Israeli, non-Jewish person to ever light the torch on Independence Day. And so, I lit the torch on Mount Herszel and it was an amazing night for me. very very powerful to be with a line of heroes, the best of Israel from post October 7th, people who saved lives, people who risked absolutely everything for the Jewish identity and saved so many people from whether it was a Nova festival or kabutim and did unbelievable things, you know, and I'm standing in this line. I'm lighting the torch on Independence Day and I thought, "Wow, I've been invited in to a nation of people that I've fallen in love with." And so on the cab ride home, I was thinking about my first time in Israel. And I went back and I looked at the post cuz I posted a photo. It's still on my Instagram today. And I said, "This journey begins with a sunset." And Trevor, who was a guy I was with, find ourselves giving thanks to God on the Mediterranean. And then I had a hashtag which was purpose Holyland Tour. There was a purpose. And even in 2017, the very first time I came to Israel, there was something in my head that is there that you saved me in Iraq. You called me to Israel and there's a purpose to what I'm doing. Now, I went and checked what day I lit the torch cuz I was on the cover. I was like, "What? Today's May." And it was the 8th of May when I first came. 2017. Wow. Today's the 8th of May. Wow. 2018, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 7 years. 7 years to the day. Now to the non-believer, they'll be like, "Oh, nice coincidence." But to the believer, it's Hashem saying, "I'm writing a story. I will take you from no knowledge, no understanding and no connection to a people and I will put you in a position where you will be so close to a nation and a people and understanding that I could do all things with you over seven years and you didn't even know what I was doing. But imagine this, what could I do with you for another seven years now that I know you trust me? It's the question, right? And so let's wrap this up with an idea of mental health. My strength comes from God. My value comes from God. My identity comes from God. I am nothing without him. But with him, I am an unstoppable force. Not because I'm strong, but because he is willing. And so people who are suffering from mental health, if someone came to me and said, "Oh, I'm depressed. I hate my life. I just want I want to die." You know what I would say? That's amazing. What do you mean? Because what you're saying is you no longer care about the result. You're free from the prison that we put ourselves in, which is I need to do this. I need to do that. I need to be this. I need to I need to be loved. I need to be appreciated. If you're truly wanting to die, now you're free. Now give everything to him. And let him take it. And I promise you, he will do something with your life that you could have never done. But he did it from your brokenness. He did it from your chaos. Now, we go back to the Torah. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was formless and void. And the spirit of Elohim was hovering over the abyss. The chaos. Now, if you and I were standing with God on day one, we would be like, "This is a balagan. It's a disaster. No one can live here. There's no life. There's no land. There's no animals. There's this is horrible." And God goes, "Wait, let there be light. Whoa. Okay, that's nice. Oh, wait. Vegetation separate this, that." And by the time we got to day six, you and I would be like, "Wow, this is tov." No, go like, "No, it's to me. It's very, very good." And so this is a beautiful thing about the creator. He says, "I work in chaos." So if you're done with your life, if you think you can't fix it, you can't solve it, you can't redeem it, perfect. Let me take it and let me turn it into something beautiful and good. But here's the amazing thing. I don't get the glory. He does. That's his story with me, with you, with humanity. >> Well, >> I I get paid to speak on TV, so it's not often that I'm at a loss for words, but I really am at at a loss for words. And I know you're not always comfortable with compliments, but I would say the analogy between you and Abraham is apppropo because the tomud asks, why was Abraham the father of our religion? You have Noah, you have Adam. People came before him. Why? Why Abraham? And the Talmud says, "Because when Abraham opened his tent for the passer by for the wanderer to come and eat and receive shelter and they would say,"Abraham, how could we thank you?" He said, "Don't thank me. Thank the one who made this all possible." As in he got others to recognize the oneness of God and the beauty of God. And so I think Nate Buzz uh Abrahamu, I think there's a lot of synergy and similarity with there. And as I said, it's it's not often that I'm at a loss for words, but I think you've you've given so much hope and inspiration, not just since October 7th, because as you said yourself, you've been doing this before it was cool. You've been doing this for years and years. It's not just something you do for the camera. It's not just something you do for a gala dinner. It's who you are. It's a core part of your identity. And I think our listeners from Amuim who've struggled with suicidal thoughts, who struggled with relationships that ended in domestic violence, who struggled with drug addiction, I think when they hear your story and they can see someone who on paper is successful, he has the followers, he has the fame, >> but nevertheless, what he really wants to be known as and what really animates him is is that godly soul that is within each of us. So, thank you, Nate, for everything you're doing. Thank you for supporting the great work of Amuim. And um if you appreciate what Nate does and if you appreciated this conversation, then make sure that our community has the tools, has the resources to combat the struggles that they're going through, please consider supporting Amu. Um I know we are and so I'd encourage you to do the exact same thing. Thank you so much and thank you Nate. >> Thank you. [music]