Breathwork | Full Segment

Hi everyone. We're here today with Giti Greenwald. First and foremost, a very dear friend, um, very close to my heart, uh, a licensed social worker in the Burough Park neighborhood who has really brought breath work into the clinical into the clinical work. She's trained clinicians, many cohorts of clinicians. I know because I've been there, uh, in bringing breath work into their practice and helping people use breath work as a healing modality. >> Hi, Kitty. Welcome. >> Hey, [laughter] >> it's so nice to be here with you. >> Yeah, of course. Of course. >> Thank you for taking what we need to do to get together. >> Yeah, it's terrible. Shame on us. >> Shame on us. We really, we should have a coffee, not a cup of water on the table. Um but I'm really I'm really glad I have so many questions that I think people have people ask they want to know they want to know about breath work as someone who wants to practice breath work um you know clinicians who want to um utilize it as a modality of healing. So we'll we'll jump right in. We'll jump right in. Let's start with you know for the people out there who are just tuning in to heal because they want to make a nice donation to mudim or something. They're finding this segment breath work. Well, that sounds interesting. Let's define breath work. What is breath work? How would you define it? >> Okay, so that's a really good question. Um, so why don't you help me define breath work because you know that you're my partner in crying. Okay, so let's not pretend you don't know [laughter] about breath work, right? I picked you up by your bootstraps and flew down [clears throat] to Colorado with you. >> Yeah, it was a summer so it was more like sneaker straps. >> Sneaker straps. Okay, whatever it was, you know, at least I had what to eat because [laughter] Marine took care of me. washed the best lettuce I ever ate in in Colorado. >> Yeah. Yeah. You took care of me in Colorado, you know. Okay. Cuz you know what I do? I travel with my protein bars, but you travel with chickpeas. >> You're you know, >> the whole sarity vibe >> for sure. You got to have your salad. Without salad, salad, what's the purpose? >> And your lettuce. So you you nourished me. >> It it grounds me. It >> you nourished my soul [clears throat] >> and my body. Pleasure. >> Thanks for that. Right. So let's define breath work. So on a very technical level, breath work is a guided breathing practice, right? Almost like meditation. >> Mhm. >> That allows us to go deep into the body, into the mind, into our spirit >> to access um whatever it is that needs to be accessed, right? It takes people very much like into like a psychedelic space without substances. Mhm. >> It takes people into trans states. So, a little bit like hypnosis, >> right? Where they're in a we call the theta state, >> in the state where they're very open to how they can connect with their subconscious, >> with their stories, with their traumas in a way that's safe, in a way that's gentle. >> Mhm. >> And I want to talk about that because I think that's very important. >> Yes. And um and it and it it helps people heal on a deeper visceral level. It works on the mind. It works on the body. It works on the soul levels. >> It's it's just such a powerful modality. And what's so fascinating about breath work is that we're working with a breath. >> We're working with our own natural medicine, with our own natural >> um healing >> in a way. Like who would have known? Who would have known that this breath that was given to us at birth >> like a gift, right? >> This nishima [laughter] that was blown into us, >> right, >> that it held such power, >> right? >> And it held such power >> to transform and to heal. >> Like who would have known, >> right? Yeah. >> Like when I found it, I was like it blew my mind, >> right? >> Like I blew my it blew my mind. I felt jipped that it took me close to 40, no over 40 years to find my breath again. >> Mhm. >> It took me over 40 years to find the breath that was gifted to me at birth. >> Miam. Okay. That that's that's something I just realized and that's something I still need to be I need to grieve that. >> Right. Interesting. Interesting. And it's so interesting as you were speaking what I was realizing was >> and then once you do know it's like of course >> Yeah. >> Right. It's it's not like who would have known okay until you know you don't know you know but once you know it's so clear remember in Denver when I told that to our trainer >> and it was like whoa you know and we we we realize that how of course it's so fundamental >> not only is breath the same letters as nishama like nishama nashima but it it's intrinsic to everything. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And you know, the the the feeling I'm having right now as we're talking is like I feel like almost like, you know, when they they say that the that the the angel comes at birth and kind of smacks our lips and we should forget everything and the veil comes down and we forget why we came down here. >> And it's almost like at the same time, he blows breath into us and says, "I know this is going to be really hard, but if you find your breath, you'll get through this." >> Beautiful. >> You know, I kind of feel that. I don't know. It's like cuz it happens at the same time, right? Bam. Bam. Right. >> Exactly. >> But like how many people are aware of that? >> I wasn't until we started talking now. So this is this is good stuff. >> And like with the breath is there's always deeper and deeper layers of it. So it that's part of the journey of breath work. >> Yeah. >> I love that I'm talking to you about it. >> Mhm. >> Because not only because you're my friend and I'm glad to spend time with you, [laughter] >> but I like that you know what I'm talking about. >> Yeah. >> Like I'm not trying to explain something to you that you and you're like looking at me like saying, "What do you mean?" like h you're like I get it. I get it. And there's something very um >> wholesome about that, >> right? >> And and and and >> borrowing from sematic language when you tune into the breath and you can experience that felt sense, >> you know. And as as soon as as soon as you know, you know. >> Uh and that's very powerful. >> Yeah. Because I've spoken to a lot I've done this before and I I speak to people about breath work all the time and I always feel like I'm selling it and I don't want to sell breath work. Like it makes me uncomfortable like when I talk about it and I feel like >> okay I'm going to convince you now. >> I don't want to convince anyone. I want everyone to convince themselves >> and I what I usually say when people ask me is try it and then we'll have a conversation. >> Beautiful >> because I want you to experience it and once you experience it I won't have to talk much. You'll know. >> Mhm. >> Right. So this is very nice. >> Yeah. I want to go back to something that you said. Uh you mentioned how the breath could almost be like a psychedelic experience and I've had people do breath work. I've done breath work with groups and some people say, "I don't know. I don't feel like anything happened. I I hit a I hit a wall, you know, it just was it was blank. I started to go in. I started to feel certain sensations and then and then I hit a wall." How would you explain that as a psychedelic experience? So what you're asking is like why some people have this kind of an experience, some people feel like nothing really happened. >> Yeah. >> So the way I see it from my experience is that the breath will take you to where you're at >> and I've seen this over and over again >> when someone was say will say to me, >> I don't know, I was completely out of it the whole time. >> Right? And when I sit with them and we process and integrate it, I might ask them, >> "How is that a pattern in your life?" >> Exactly. >> Right. How is that something that And they're like, "Yeah, I'm always like all over the place. I'm always associated. I can't focus. I can't concentrate." And I'm like, "Right." And that was the message for today. This was your lesson in breath work today >> that you're coming in and you're telling me my intention is that I want to understand ABCD and E. I want to know why my life is stuck here, here, and here. And the answer that your subconscious gave you was because you need to come into focus, into groundedness. You need to come into presence. >> That when you'll be in presence, >> when you'll show up, >> the rest will follow. >> Beautiful. >> Right? So, this happens all the time. And people will tell me like, um, >> I I fell asleep in the middle. I was gone. >> Right. >> And very often those are people who dissociate in life all the time. They're gone. Mhm. >> Yeah. And that's where the work is. That's where the work is. So, >> yeah, I find that the breath will take you to where you're at because it's so natural. It's so organic. >> Mhm. >> It's so pure. >> It, you know, people say, "I had an intention that I wanted to understand this >> and my breath took me here." >> Yeah. >> And I'll be like, and we and we'll we'll process it and I'll say, "Oh." and and somehow through the conversation will come to the awareness that if you want to get here, you first need to get through this, >> right? >> Like it's like it's like beautiful. It's almost like someone coming to you and say you can have that, >> right? >> If you can work on this, like I want to go out there and I want to um succeed in A, B, and C. And then they're taken to a childhood space, >> a childhood wound of a deep insecurity, >> of being bullied, of of not being seen, not being met. >> And what they need to learn is that we need to work on that insecurity. We need to find that child >> and give her her confidence back so that you can go out there and do your life. Exactly. >> And it was like, oh, again, inner child healing. Yes. >> Yes. Yes. You know, we are we are a product of our childhood and we we need to honor that. We can't be stuck in the past, but we need to look at it and we need to um help we need to help that child meet the adult we've become. >> Yeah. >> Right. Cuz our child parts holds our creativity, holds our spirit, holds our our our courage, our playfulness, >> our playfulness, right? So if we can't access that, then you know Exactly. Yeah. And the breath will take you there. >> Yeah. I I often tell people I said you may have done like a lot of inner child work and parts and different things like that. Now you have a chance to look at if you don't have to do all that work again but recognize that all of those things impacted and they're going to that you know it it leaves its footprint on your reality now. So have to do all that work again. You can step into it and say okay I know this. Okay how do I move past it? How do I utilize this uh gift that the breath is giving to open up certain certain experiences for me? So, >> yeah. So, I want to just like like on that on that note, I have people come to me after years of therapy. >> Mhm. >> And they sit in the chair and they're like, I don't need to talk about my childhood. I know everything. I have my to my narrative down pat. >> Everything is okay. I get I get it. I get everything. >> Those really brilliant, intelligent people who really get it. Yeah. Right. >> And then I say, "So, why are you here?" And they're like, "Because I'm miserable. >> I'm feeling horrible. I'm feeling I'm not feeling well." Right. >> Right. >> And what I tell them is you're right. You can write a book. You can write a You know everything. >> There's nothing you don't know anymore. >> The part that's left is the somatic experience of what happened to you. >> Right. You could tell me your story like you're telling me someone else's story, but can you actually go into that story and find the parts of you that were wounded >> and help those parts release >> release the emotion? They got so stuck inside. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> And that's where we bring the breath in. >> I know for myself that was the case. >> I I came to breath work after years years of my own healing and therapy. And I I believed that the the feelings I was having was just the scars that I'm going to have to live with for the rest of my life. Look, I had in heart. This is it. I'm going to have to have certain scars, >> right? >> And then I realized, no, no, I I can go in there. I can cry it out. I can shake it out. I can I can move it out. And I felt so free afterwards. Now I can't undo what happened. Mhm. >> But what's so beautiful is that through the breath work process, I was also able to get to a place where I can find meaning >> in the pain. >> I can understand why my soul might have chosen >> this journey, >> this path. >> Yeah. >> How the lessons I learned from my >> from my pain >> was actually what brought me to where I am today. And I'm pretty pleased with where I am today. I'm not done, but [laughter] but I'm happy with the person I've become. >> And >> and I wouldn't have been who I am today if not for having to really really do I want to live through that again? No. >> No. Right. >> So, like the past like 25 years of my life were the hardest and best years of my life. >> Right. They were really hard. [clears throat] >> But when I look back, >> it it brings me to tears. >> It was incredible. Incredible learning. incredible lessons, incredible healing, incredible growth >> and yeah, through the pain. Through the pain. >> Yeah, >> that's you know the people think it's about the destination. It's about the journey, right? It's about the process that is life. life is that journey and to be able to kind of like savor it and even have like that sense of like wow silver lining you know that suffering took me to to brings me to who I am today is take me to something beautiful that that it's that's a gift that's a it's a beautiful gift I found forgiveness where I never thought it was possible >> right >> in a very deep and meaningful way [snorts] >> of like >> and I'm going to get teeyed like almost like it's going to sound crazy but to the point where I almost like almost I'm saying because it's like I'm human, [laughter] >> right? >> Almost like feeling gratitude to certain people in my life who've really hurt me. >> Wow. >> Of like but not gra but it's like like thanks for the lessons, >> right? >> Like on a soul level I was almost again we're human >> but kind of understanding why we contracted on that. >> Mhm. Right now, I'm not going to get into the place of like people who do evil. That's between God. >> Yes. >> And and them. I I'm not I'm not getting that into that space at all because there is no excuse for anything bad that ever happen. Nobody has the right to hurt another human being. >> Correct. >> Right. So, I'm not talking about abuse. I'm not talking about people who were completely evil and and traumatized and all that. I'm talking about like my parents. >> Right. >> Right. I'm talking about um certain friends that came into my life >> who didn't mean to hurt me, >> right? My parents, >> best people in the world, >> right? >> Wonderful people. >> But because of their deficits, >> they passed it down to me and I had to do my healing around that. Right. >> Sure. >> So for for some time I was angry. >> I was angry at them. Right. But then through my process of healing and and very deep breath work processes, I was able to understand why I chose them as my parents. >> Wow. >> Right. And how what they gave to me. >> Mhm. >> Again, what they couldn't give me >> was exactly what I needed >> in order to push through >> like the like what I complained about like I wish they would have done this this and that. If only they understood and only they saw and if only right >> that ended up being the gift. >> That's what I mean when I say that I I came to a place of forgiveness. Yeah. >> And I don't I really do not want to touch on the place where people go out there and hurt people intentionally. >> That that's something else >> because of course >> I leave that to God. Yeah. I'm not getting involved in that. And and I don't like talking the word forgiveness around that because I think that's >> I don't want I don't want to go there. I don't want to go but I I want to go to the place of people in our life who didn't intentionally hurt us but hurt us >> right for example our parents >> right they meant good they loved us but they couldn't love us in the way we needed to be loved right >> and to understand to come to a place where we can we can separate from it >> right so >> and and w with each generation right like we're parents or hashem we try to do best by our kids and and and and possibly even heal generational stuff in the process. But our kids are going to have to do the same thing with their own with their own process. >> I know. I always say I hope my kids find a therapist that knows I tried my best. Like at least protect me. At least just know that I was a mother who really tried. >> They really tried. >> Yeah. And then, you know, >> Right. >> Yeah. >> And the rest. But but that's, you know, >> I hope I'm doing better because my parents did better than their parents. >> For sure. And there's there's there's generational healing that that comes with each one. And but there's there's always that struggle. There's always that generational shift because we might be doing but our kids are also growing up in a different generation than we grew up and the needs or the you know the the gestalt of the time is going to be different and we might be tuning in to something >> that maybe we could have would have needed then but maybe they need something. So we're always trying to do our best hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. And I really believe that, you know, in most cases, >> there are exceptions and, you know, >> in most cases, parents >> love their children >> and are doing the best they can with what they have. >> Absolutely. >> And I think that that's why education is so important. That's why speaking to parents is so important >> because parents want to do best. They they really want to. Absolutely. Right. Again, with >> 99.9 Yeah. Yeah. And I you know and sometimes they I don't think my parents intentionally did anything wrong to me. >> In fact, they [music] killed themselves for their children. >> Absolutely. >> Right. >> Then you know >> Yeah. >> Right. So that's you know that's that was for me a very meaningful shift that happened. Um you know once we release the trauma we can go deeper. >> Yeah. Yeah. Opens doors. >> Yeah. Yeah. Some people get stuck banging at one door realizing they could just open it, walk through it, and that's the experience of healing. >> Powerful. >> Um, so you know, we we we've touched a little bit about this, but are you able to explain to us like what happens in the body and mind when we consciously alter our breath? >> So, what happens in the body and in the mind? So, so much happens and I think we touched on it a little bit like you know we go into this um deep state you know I always say breath work is somatics on steroids >> okay >> and >> so it is a healing modality >> it's a big it's a very much so I have had many many people who came to my training >> Mhm. and to my classes. I've taken thousands of people through breath work >> who would say to me, "Somatics doesn't talk to me. Somatic therapy doesn't talk to me. I I I don't know what they're talking about. I don't have a felt sense. >> I don't know what, you know, I don't doesn't work for me. I'm much more of a mind person. I work better with modalities that are top down, not bottom up." >> And then they'll be like, "I don't know how breath work will work for me." Mhm. >> And then they'll go in with a breath and they're like, "Wow, this is like open new worlds for me." >> Beautiful. >> Right. But Miam, I want I want to take a minute >> to talk about the concept of breath and the concept of breath work. I think that many people out there >> I like that >> they they talk a lot about breath work, but they're not talking much about breath period. >> Right. >> Right. And this is something I differentiate a lot in my when I teach therapists is and when I talk to people when I work with my clients >> is you know I won't do breath work with everybody >> I don't think breath work is for everyone >> right >> even though technically everyone should be able to do it >> if we have enough um core sense and my goal is to be able to take every one of my clients to a place where they can tolerate it. >> Yes. >> Right. Um [snorts] but what's so important is that just coming in contact with your breath in a conscious way that in itself is so healing >> right like I'm sitting with you here now right and I want to answer you clearly >> and I want to be honest and straightforward with you right >> I don't want to just talk theory with you I want to I want I want to embody what I'm saying >> and what I keep doing is checking in with my breath >> like you're breathing >> right >> right just breathing I'm sitting with someone and I start feeling agitated >> and I start feeling uncomfortable the first thing I'll check in with are you breathing >> you'll say gy I'm always breathing look I'm alive I would be dead if I wasn't breathing well thank god that that breath is one of those automatic ner body process systems because otherwise we would all be dead right >> because we would all forget to breathe >> but it's also So something we can control. It's actually the only system in the body that's both automatic and in our and in our control. >> And it's not a freak of nature. >> God didn't make any mistakes. >> Yeah. >> Right. It's because when we have the awareness of the breath, then we can alter our state of being. >> We can alter so much about ourselves. >> We can heal. We can transform. We can go deeper. People think like, "Oh, so I must do breath work." No. >> No. You need to connect with your breath. Just take a breath. >> Yeah. Just connect. And I won't start a session with a client. They might come in and start talking to me, but I won't share anything until I can contact their breath. >> Because a client that's not breathing doesn't hear me. >> Mhm. >> A client that's not breathing is not in the room with me, right? Their bodies walk in >> and they're gone. They're somewhere else. So before we don't come back inside, >> nothing I'm going to do is going to be helpful. >> Before we are not embodied, we're just keeping ourselves busy as therapists and we're not really doing any of it. >> And I'm guilty of that for a long time. I thought I was doing something >> right. >> Right. And when I found the breath and yeah and I was doing something and my clients were definitely moving along and all that but what I find now when I bring the breath in everything I've ever done >> every modality I'm trained in and it's many right I have a nice resume. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> You do. >> Yeah. But everything is smoother. >> Yeah. >> Everything is simpler. >> Everything goes deeper. >> And I'm watching my clients move. It makes me even emotional as I'm thinking about it. Like I see people moving into these beautiful spaces >> and I'm like, "Wow." It's like, >> you know, every time I can tell I can terminate a client and I walk through the door and I close the door and I'm like, "Oh, God. Thank you. >> Thank you." Another person walking out there embodied >> another person walking out there tolerating their world, >> doing better, >> right? And not even the ones who terminated. Even sometimes a client walks out, they don't know. They walk out and I literally like >> I'm like that because I I watch these beautiful deep transformations happen that were not possible before. And what am I doing? I'm not doing breath work with them, >> right? >> I might do like a mini in the middle of a session. >> Sure. >> But I'm just bringing them back to self and they themselves come to these amazing powerful um awarenesses. >> Yeah. And I'm like, "How did you know that?" >> And they're like, "I don't know. It just it just came to me." And they and I have chills when I talk about it because there's something such there's such a gift >> in having this um >> this and I I and on our in our hands when we're sitting with people, >> right? And um I I I feel like every social work, every psychology, every every anyone who's going to go in, every psychiatrist, anyone that's going to go in and work with clients should have this as a baseline like what are we doing? >> What are we doing? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. And I'm sure in that process you you experience how challenging it is for clients. It's not like, oh, I'm going to focus on the breath and suddenly they're able to. It's a real work to get them there. Yeah. It's not a hard work, but it's work, >> right? It But >> meaning when I say work, I mean it's a process. It's not like, oh, okay, we're going to tune into the breath and it's going to be simple. >> No. I will never tell a client, I need you to breathe now. >> Start breathing. You're not breathing. No. No. It's about contacting very gently. >> Because let me tell you this, >> most of us are walking around in this world not breathing, >> not breathing deeply, properly, >> right? the anxiety and the depression and the panic out there through the roof. >> Crazy. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> If we can bring people back into and back into their breath, so much of that won't be there anymore because >> people don't realize, you asked about the science, what's happening in the body, right? I'll back it up a little and I'll tell you that 85% of clients who walk into my office or I make contact with and I I contact a lot of clients because many people come to me for breath work even if they're not my clients they come from other therapists. >> 85% who struggle with anxiety and I would even I would even go higher than 85% but I want to kind of >> be conservative. >> Yeah. their anxiety is due to lack of breath. >> Because people don't realize that when we hear when when people go through trauma and pain or hardship or stress or tension, >> doesn't even have to be trauma, a lot of stress in their life or whatever reason, right? It could even be stress for good reasons. >> Absolutely. Right. >> They they catch their breath. So, let's say I hear something and I'm like shocked. What am I going to do? Right? >> This is the breath of fear. >> And then we never release it. >> And we kind of continue breathing. Look, I'm holding it now and I can talk to you for the next hour like this, >> right? >> But I never did this. [sighs] >> I didn't let it go. >> Yeah. And in the studies that we see in research about somatics and about, you know, they study the animals and the shock response and the trauma response and they talk about how animals don't necessarily have PTSD like humans have. Right. >> Right. If you really look at the studies and you watch videos of what animals do after they go through shocking, difficult, stressful experiences, >> right? They don't only sequence. They don't only shake it out. >> Right. Not just the planking. >> Yeah. >> They actually breathe very deeply. Mhm. >> And they go [sighs] >> right. Oh, and also the strong exhale. >> Yeah. The deep inhale, deep exhale. >> And that's how they release the tension from the body. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Get it [clears throat] out of the nervous system. >> And that, you know, and research shows that only two kind of animals struggle with PTSD. You know what that is? Humans and domestic animals. >> Domesticated. Yeah. >> Domesticated. >> Like dogs who live in homes. >> Right. Right. Because animals out there, they know how to take care of themselves, >> right? >> They know how to take care of themselves and we we we don't. But so when we bring the breath in, >> what we're doing is >> we're relaxing the nervous system again, we're basically sending a signal >> to the brain that the trauma is over. There's nothing to fear. >> Yeah. >> There's nothing to be afraid of. >> And sometimes I'll have a client say to me, "I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I'm so anxious. I'm so anxious. I'm so anxious." And I'll be like, "Let's talk about that in a minute, you know, and why don't we just take a moment to connect with your breath first?" >> And I'll say, "I I'll play some music and let's take one minute." And all I want you to do, >> breathe in and breathe out. Nothing else. >> Nothing else. >> There's no right or wrong way to do this. >> Just connect with your breath. >> Right? >> By the time those two minutes are up, >> they're with me. They're calmer. Mhm. >> They're already stra they already have strategies of how to get out of this very anxietyprovoking situation, >> right? >> I don't have to talk much, >> right? It's fascinating. >> It's fascinating and everything is easier. Now, I could have spend 20 minutes of the session, >> calming them down and grounding them, >> right? >> And but it might have worked because there are many ways to ground people or I can spend 2 minutes breathing and then we have 18 minutes to talk about what's really going on, >> right? Amazing. So things are just softer, smoother, easier. And this is not breath work, >> right? >> This is, you know, the breath. >> Yeah. And and so many people will come to the training and they'll sit down the first day >> and I'll say, "Okay, let's start with connecting with the breath >> and then they'll open their eyes and they'll be like, where am I?" It's like they come like like land [clears throat] bam, you know? >> And and there's so much um wisdom >> in learning this stuff, >> right? >> Yeah. It's it's so interesting, you know, the the the feeling of a lot of what we call healing is really getting back to basics, getting back in touch with self, being able to sit internally with what's going on. And breath creates the space to be able to do that. It's >> Yeah. Breath softens everything. >> Yeah. Beautiful. >> But you know how many of our clients are afraid to breathe? >> You know how many people when I tell them, "Can we connect with her breath?" And they'll be like, "No." >> Yeah. because they know that as soon as they connect with their breath, they're going to make contact with themselves and a lot of them have been running for a very long time. >> And and that that's where the challenge is. I you know, clinically we see that all the time to to pause would be disastrous. >> Yeah. >> So the minute you ask them to breathe, it's like take a pause. That self-reflection, that turning inwards, that's too hard. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um because the grief that happens next is what they're avoiding. It's exactly what they're avoiding. >> They don't go there. So when you ask what happens inside, right? On an emotional level, on a physical level, >> if we can't make contact with the grief, with the pain, >> with the emotion, right? And we just keep talking about our stories over and over and over again, >> then you're right. You know your story. >> But what are we really doing? >> We're afraid of ourselves. >> Right. Right. you know, and and and what you know, and that's why like I'm saying to you is like I meet people who've been in therapy for years >> years and they're they're just not feeling better. >> They just they're still miserable. They're still running around trying to find someone who's going to give them that miracle cure that's going to help them feel human again. >> Is it is it the story that they're they're stuck in? Is do they need to hold on to that story? Is that part of it? >> Sometimes sometimes people have a need to hold on to their stories. >> But then the question is what's the need? >> Mhm. >> Like you know and and and nobody wants to hold on. Nobody like wakes up in the morning and says, "Well, you know what? I went through hell my life. I had a really rough life so I'm going to hold on to this for the rest of my life. This is my badge of honor." You know, no one wakes up in the morning and says, "This is what I'm going to do." >> Definitely not consciously. >> Not consciously, right? But if someone is holding on to it then it's our job to find out what what purpose is it serving >> right >> and how can we do this differently >> you know so there's like a judgment piece people sometimes say like you know what you just want to suffer you just don't want to let it go sometimes we really can't let it go >> right >> I will say with full complete transparency and honesty that I really wanted to heal I did not want to suffer >> and I suffered Mhm. >> And you might look at me and say, "Okay, now that you understand why you're suffering, now that you get it, >> you can consciously decide that you don't want to anymore and stop. I couldn't stop." >> It was like my body was running on autopilot, >> right? >> You know, you can't tell me not to be scared. If I look at it, then my whole body shuts down, >> right? >> I don't choose to shut down. >> Mhm. >> It's automatic. >> It's an automatic response. It's like my brain kicks in and bam. >> Mhm. >> And I would stand there and say, "Gity, stop it. Don't shut down. you're an adult now. You can do this. Don't be so afraid. And I can tell myself all those beautiful lines and I can do all my positive affirations >> and you know what? Do something. >> Right. >> I'm frozen. >> Mhm. Right. >> Right. So what I found that with breath work, >> we can bypass that. Why? Because we're bypassing the thinking mind. >> Mhm. >> When we do the breath work in >> and the trauma mind, you're bypassing both. >> Exactly. When we when we do the breath work and and see with regular breathing, it's sometimes hard to do that. >> But when we do the breath work, >> the the way we do the breathing, >> it it bypasses it is like if we keep going with it, at some point the person will go into what we call transient hypoprontality, >> right? Where the thinking brain shuts down. Bam. >> So this is our conscious brain. Our conscious brain is the part of our brain that tries to keep us thinking, thinking, thinking. And the amygdala, the the the trauma brain, >> quiets down >> and it allows us to go deeper into our subconscious. >> Once we go into our subconscious, we can start negotiating. >> Once we go into subconscious, we can start we have more suggestability. >> We can start looking at it without fear >> because our fear response is not there, >> right? >> And we can face it and say, "Oh, so that's what happened, >> right? Protective systems calm down." >> Exactly. We're much calmer >> and we can start experiencing the depth of that pain of that motion and once we clear that >> we get clarity and then we can start we move through it in a very deep and meaningful way >> and that's more the psychedelic property of it. >> Got it? >> Right. So we we start by getting people into their breath first. >> First I want you in your body >> but once you're in your body >> once I can see that you can tolerate yourself then I will take you into a breath work session. Beautiful. >> Because then we can go deeper. >> Right. >> Right. And a lot of people miss that step. >> Yes. >> They're going to take people straight into breath work >> and they ram their system. >> And this is why we have so much, you know, you know, breath work is such a beautiful thing, but we hear so many negative ne negative feedback from it. So much negative feedback because >> people go before they're ready. Not everyone is ready to go into breath work session. Mhm. >> And this is something I stress so much in this clinical breath work training, right, of you need to check in with your client first. You don't just go right in depend. We need to first get the person embodied, present, safe, >> right? >> And we do that a lot through the breath and through every other modality that we do. >> Absolutely. >> Right. And then when the client is ready to go deeper, we can dive deep in. >> Beautiful. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's that that produces a result of healing of of inner peace that sometimes gets you know >> you know what we do as therapists >> and this is something that >> is so necessary. >> So we we start with connecting the person right there's like there's like a science behind it. We get the person deeper into their breath. We do the breath work and then our job is to bring them back to their breath >> in session. >> Like let's talk about what you experienced in the breath work. This is where the integration comes in. This is where the processing comes in. And let's bring what you learned about yourself >> and the healing and the transformation and the awarenesses into your current life. Beautiful. >> Otherwise, it's just information. Right. >> What's the point? Why >> or this experience? Very nice. >> Experience. You know, it's a trip. Exactly. And I don't I I always people ask me like, I want to just come experience breath work because I I I just I like the feeling of it, whatever. I'm like, there's so many people out there. Go do it. Mhm. >> I I want to do breath work therapeutically. >> I want to do breath work to help people heal and transform. >> I want to I want you to be able to use the information you got >> from your deep subconscious space >> to make changes in your current life. >> Yeah. >> To create a life that's better for you. >> Because breath work is hard work. Like why put in all this work if you're not going to get anything out of it, right? >> And people will say, "Yeah, I did breath work and I felt good for two weeks and then everything went back to normal." Of course, >> without integration, >> of course, there's no magic, >> right? >> Without integration, you're not really learning and shifting and and and making change in your life based on this information that you have. >> So, this is where the therapy comes in. >> And this is why I feel it's so important to do breath work with a therapist. >> Yes. >> Right. So, when I developed this training, >> I I I my goal was like the world is shifting. People are going for psychedelic experiences. Psychedelics is not legal here >> and there's a natural way to do this. So we as therapists, we need to catch up. >> We need to catch up and we need to meet our clients in those spaces. People have done suffering, >> right? [laughter] >> People have done they don't want to do this anymore for 100 years, >> right? >> They don't want to sit in therapy for 20 years doing the same thing over and over again, >> right? And barely feeling better >> and barely feeling better. And and I'm happy about that. I think it's great that people just say enough, >> enough, >> right? I want to feel if I was able to be hurt, I'm able to be healed. >> And let me get to the bottom of this >> and then start, you know, I don't, you know what [clears throat] it is? If someone's in in therapy for 20 years, that doesn't bother me. >> Mhm. >> It bothers me if they're in therapy for 20 years and they're not feeling better. >> Right. Exactly. >> Right. I don't care if you're in therapy for 1 year, 5, 10, 15, 20. Be in therapy for life. >> It's a beautiful thing. >> It's great. >> You have the time, you have the money, go for it. you have the time and money. It's a great place to come and just be clearcess. >> It's your mental health, you know, your physical health. You go to the gym, you don't say, "I'm not going to go to the gym for because I did it already for 5 years." But this is your mental health. It keeps me gives me keeps me clear, keeps me grounded. It's wonderful. I think therapy is wonderful. I always want to have someone in my life I can talk to in a real way without judgment that I can just hash things out with and get clarity with. >> And I think it's great. And friends are great, but sometimes we need someone who's not our friend. Right. >> Right. >> Objective, outside the scope. outsider, someone I can just like not, >> you know. >> Yeah. Right. Someone I don't have to protect my ego with, [laughter] >> like this is who I am deal, right? [gasps] >> So, I think it's great. But if you're in therapy for years and and you're still not feeling better and nothing is happening and you can't move on and you're still feeling so stuck, >> then we need to reexamine that. >> That's a problem, >> right? What's happening, right? Or what's not happening. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And I'll tell you I'll tell you very often. Miam. Yeah. >> They're they're not breathing and their therapist is not breathing. >> Oh yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. And and that's often the case, you know, for somebody who's in so much pain. You want to sit with them. You want to help them hold their pain. You want to be, you know, reciproc, you know, a recipient to to their experience. But sometimes you know the transference counter trans you just become a mirror image and then the two of you are sitting there not breathing. >> Yeah. >> Um and the whole you know all systems are off. >> Right. >> You know what blows my mind? >> Yeah. >> And you can call me crazy. >> So many people therapists >> they call me to inquire about the training >> or they heard about the training because it's out there. People are are learning about it. or if I'm doing um an online event, >> right, for therapists >> over and over again, the fear the fear >> of contacting their breath, it blows my mind. >> And you know, there's research that shows that therapists are the most emotion phobic people. Yeah. >> And that's ironic. >> It is. It is ironic. >> Right. We're sitting with clients and we're bringing them through their feelings and emotions and we're so afraid, right? And I really feel that and this again this is my personal feeling. We can take people as far as we've gone. >> Mhm. >> We've take we cannot take people further than that. >> And if we >> as therapists are afraid of sitting with our own emotions. >> If we're afraid of doing a breath work session because I'm afraid it might disregulate me. I'm afraid it might be contact with something inside of me that I'm hiding. >> Yes. >> Then how do we have the right >> to sit with clients and ask them to do the same? >> Yeah. >> I I really want to understand that, >> right? >> Mhm. >> I have no right to sit here with you as a client >> and say, "Lean into that. Just let yourself feel it. Allow it to come. I'm right here with you." When I can let the emotion come up, let the emotion come up. You know, it blows my mind. Am I crazy? >> No, I think I think you're making a very very valid point. And sometimes I think it goes even a step further. We're saying all those beautiful lines that you just said. Maybe even the client has the courage, strength, the fortitude, the the blessing to let it come up and then the therapist can't hold it. And the client knows it, >> right? The client can feel it, >> right? >> And it's it's so detrimental. >> Yeah. >> To everyone to that whole system. >> Yeah. And they shut it down. >> Yeah. And And it gets shut down. Even >> you know how they shut it down sometimes? By throwing a tissue box at you. You know, here's a tissue. >> You know, when a therapist is not able >> to sit >> to sit through a client's deep emotional process. >> Mhm. In many ways, I feel like it retraumatizes the client >> because that's what traumatized them in the first place. Like, think about it. Someone like >> that's that that's how it traumatized them. That was part of the trauma. >> Right. >> Right. There was nobody there who was able to hold them through whatever it was. >> Right. >> Maybe they they didn't trust that they could share the experience >> for whatever reason. For whatever reason, right? But then when they're in therapy >> and the therapists themselves freak out >> from their emotional experience >> even if it's not being shown on the outside. >> Right. But they feel it. >> Exactly. That that's my point. Like oh my gosh. You know even if the client is like oh my god like internally it doesn't have to be like a big freak out you know. >> You know what I want to tell you something. Before I had so much awareness and before my intuition was so fine-tuned right and I was just a plain client. Mhm. >> Right. Talking about years back when I was in my opinion half dead, >> right? Walking around numb, dissociated. >> Mhm. >> I remember sitting in with a therapist. >> Mhm. >> That was like at the beginning of my journey. >> Mhm. >> And that was the first therapist I sat in a room with. And even I'm thinking about it now, I'm getting like a body reaction. It's like, you know, how the body remembers. >> Sure. And I had to force myself to sit through the session. >> Mhm. >> Because it felt so off >> and I felt like she wasn't meeting me. >> Mhm. >> And I was so depressed, >> right? >> But still, a client feels it. >> Absolutely. >> They don't even know what they know, but they know it. >> Today, I can tell you what I felt. Then I didn't know. All I knew is I'm never coming back. >> Right. But when I sat into the room with my therapist, >> who God bless her soul, >> right, who was the best thing that ever happened to me, >> I knew it the moment I laid eyes on her. >> Mhm. >> She got connection. >> She got me. >> Mhm. >> I didn't get myself, but she got me. >> Wow. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> And um I knew in that moment, it's here or nowhere. >> I'm here to stay. >> Right. Was it perfect? No, it's never perfect. >> It's never perfect. But it was >> I knew she can hold me through my process. >> And you know what? She did. >> She did. >> She did. And sometimes it was I'm a tough client. [laughter] >> You know, and I think back and I'm >> Well, you're a great friend, so don't regret it. Yeah. >> Thank God. >> I don't know if you would have wanted to know me back [laughter] then. It's a good thing you met me when you met me. I should send your therapist a thank you card also. >> Yeah. Tell thanks for the friendship. >> Yeah. >> Thanks for creating a friend for me. >> Right. >> But you know what? >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that clients really know >> and what I loved about her >> Mhm. was that anytime I pushed against her threshold >> and it's very interesting because as a client I can feel when I'm pushing against a therapist's threshold because I worked with her but I've worked with other people in different you know um you know ways >> and I've pushed against many people's thresholds and usually they would say like okay I think we need to like you know they would make it about me right you know >> but with her every time I pushed against it >> she would come back the following time and she already worked that and I could feel it. I can already feel it like she was moving with me. >> Right. >> She was always moving the threshold further. For the life of me, I outgrow her till today. >> It's been years, right? >> Like we're not officially in therapy and we're not doing his things, but when I talk to her, >> she just has this incredible way of always moving. >> What a gift. >> Always moving. >> Right. And that was a great role model for me too. Yeah. >> Right. I I I if you if you push against me, I will find a way to push >> to push forward. >> I will keep growing. >> I will keep growing with you. >> Yeah. >> Because Yeah. Because that's our job. >> That's our job. >> It's our job as human beings. >> Absolutely. >> To keep evolving, keep growing. And if a client is the one who's going to be my teacher >> and is going to be the catalyst for my personal growth, >> then great. >> Mhm. >> It's wonderful. >> Yeah. Yeah, I learn from them as much as I learn as they learn, you know, it's it's a two-way process. It's >> reciprocal process 100%. >> Yeah. So, I think this is an important concept for therapists to understand that, you know, I will not do anything with my clients if I cannot do it for myself first. >> Yeah. >> If I cannot tolerate something, when I went to to train in hypnosis >> and I knew that I had tried hypnosis many years ago and it was a flop. >> Mhm. >> And I had this belief that I was not hypnotizable, >> right? And I walked around with that belief. >> And then before I took that training, >> I said, "There's no way I'm going to ever practice this on my clients if I cannot be hypnotized. I need to know what it feels like to be under >> hypnosis." >> And I went out there searching and I found someone who took me through the process. And guess what? I was hypnotizable. >> Right. And just to clarify, when you say hypnotizable, explain what it means to be in a hypnotic trance and what that what that >> it means that I was able to go deeper into a relaxed state >> and have access to my subconscious in a way that was very meaningful. I don't mean stage hypnosis. I wasn't stepping on the on making jumping jacks and >> right >> that's not >> in fact what I learned from that and that helps me a lot in the breath work as well >> is that people think that when they're in a deep trans state they're gone. >> Right? Right. So you asked that question before. What if someone feels like they can't go there? >> Mhm. >> Right. What if someone feels like nothing happened? Something always happens. >> Right. >> Right. No one is expecting you to go and just like fly off somewhere and then come back and say, "I don't know. That was this." >> Right. >> It's not about that. >> It's about being in a calm, relaxed state. >> Mhm. >> A state where you can access yourself >> without freaking yourself out. >> Mhm. >> Right. And have a deeper awareness. Mhm. >> A higher level of consciousness, >> right? That's what it's about. >> And I always thought hypnosis means that you're going to put me out and then I won't know anything and I wonder what's happening in the room. And that was not the case. >> Right. And you were always able to be in that dual awareness. >> Always in dual awareness. I I in breathless I'm always in dual awareness. >> In in hypnosis, I'm in dual awareness. >> But I'm in a place where I can access myself deeply. >> Mh. >> Right. So that's something that also comes into the breath work a lot where people don't understand what it means to go deep. It doesn't mean you're going to be gone. >> Exactly. >> Sometimes people go there, >> right? >> But according to research, a very small percentage of people can really go into this sambulistic state I think it's called where you're there so gone that they come back and they don't remember. >> Right. >> Right. So, it's really, you know, a misunderstanding that many people have. >> But my point >> and could actually alleviate a lot of people's fears because they're they're whatever >> um is going on because of the breath work or because of the hypnosis, they have the ability to be in dual awareness, which for those who don't know, dual awareness means you're in that deep trance and you're also your current, you know, your regular ego state is able to observe that and you're able to to connect to it simultaneously. >> Right. Right. And I I want to I want to kind of go off of that. >> In the breath work process that I developed >> and that I so much encourage, >> I want people in dual awareness. >> Exactly. >> I don't want you going away and not knowing. I want you to be able to integrated into your life. >> And this is where the psychedelic piece comes in. Right. Many people go into these psychedelic states where they just go off somewhere >> and they come back and they have a hard time integrating that. >> Absolutely >> right. Because you know when you're taking any kind of plant medicine or any kind of psychedelic, you're at the mercy of the medicine. >> You have no control. >> So it can take you, it really can take you. >> It can take you, let's call it a trip. It can take you on a trip >> and that trip will happen whether you want to or not. Mhm. >> It's there, >> right? >> It it doesn't necessarily respect the process of where you are. Doesn't have the softness of the breath work. >> Exactly. And for many people that's very difficult and very traumatizing. >> And I see that a lot. I see a lot of people, you know, >> it should be a different conversation because I don't want to make it about that right here. But I have so I have such strong opinions about the psychedelic world and what it has become >> and how such a sacred medicine can be so disrespected. >> Wow. Powerful >> through addiction and abuse of power >> and it's sacred. It's sacred and it shouldn't it shouldn't be the way it is right now. But I don't want to talk about it now >> because different conversation. Yeah. But I just want to kind of point that out. And then we as therapists, we can help our clients without substances. >> We can help our clients in the same deep and meaningful way >> through the process of >> breathing, through the process of their natural god-given medicine. >> Right. We and we see that people jump, let's say, to the to the psychedelics because there are these barriers that are are stopping them from connecting to the their own breath. So maybe you could name a little bit like what are the barriers that you see? Um and maybe people could actually recognize it. We see these barriers and breath work could help them get past it. Good therapy and breath work. But what are the barriers that stop people from getting in touch with their breath? >> So help me understand what you mean by barriers. >> Why is it hard for somebody to go to go inside? Why is it what or slash afraid? Oh no, I don't want to do that. I'm afraid. um you tell somebody let's try and take a deep breath and like you could physically see sometimes on a client they go and you see it stopped right here or here even you know >> what what's stopping them >> it's very sad actually it it's very sad because >> people many people are afraid of their own internal process >> they you know very often it's trauma based very often it's not you know trauma is such a broad word you know trauma doesn't only mean that something really bad happened to You >> trauma doesn't only mean abuse. Trauma doesn't only mean an accident, >> right? Trauma is also what we call like this developmental trauma, the attachment trauma which is much more subtle, >> right? >> So many children >> aren't um comfortable in their bodies because their parents aren't comfortable in their bodies. >> So just being in contact with their physical body >> is uncomfortable. >> Mhm. And it it makes them, you know, and it doesn't have to be something dramatic >> or traumatic that happened. >> Sometimes it's just this subtle complex traumas that happen over and over and over again. >> Mhm. or even those um adults who as children weren't given autonomy, >> weren't allowed to say no, >> had to listen and be obedient. >> Right. It's a very subtle trauma, >> but it creates a space where I don't have rights over my own physical being. >> Mhm. >> Right. And even on like an emotional level. >> Yeah. the minute a kid needs to cry about something physical or emotional right away trying to soo away away that pain instead of allowing them to like experience it like a parent saying I'm here with you >> instead of saying don't cry don't cry I'm here with you and letting them cry on your shoulder >> right it's a it's a very you're the parent means like you know I think parents mean well but sometimes that kind of >> uh comment could say shut it down >> we don't need crying in the house right Yeah. Yeah. You know, right? Or like even a parent saying, you know, stop crying. I'm not going to give it to you unless you stop crying. >> Exactly. >> What does a child do if they really want it? >> They swallow it, >> right? And then we see people going through breath work or in our sessions, right? >> And an emotion will come up >> and on automatic literally like you see the emotion coming up, you're like, >> "Let it go, let it go, let it go." And they do this, >> right? They Oh, they swallow. swallow it back down >> and I'm like, "Wow." So when I see that, >> how did you learn that? Yeah. >> So when I see that, I'm like, bam, pattern. Like, where did you learn that? Where did you learn that it's not okay to express to just cry for no reason? >> Right? >> I don't need a reason to cry. >> The emotion just needs to come out. >> Cry is an emotional release. It's a discharge, right? Yeah. >> So children who who have been through that process or >> like even teachers in school they don't realize that sometimes >> you know a child is in trouble they did something wrong right >> and the teacher will say look at me when I'm talking to you. Now a child that's feeling scared or ashamed >> even adults what do we naturally do we look away >> they look down >> it's it's but then they have to >> right so they can't even respond to their natural >> need right so these kind of again see now if it happens once okay it happens once but when we live in an environment >> that does this over and over and over again >> then we have an adult who's trying to have their own personal process >> and has a very hard time taking hold of their experience. Right. >> So it doesn't have to be such a huge thing. Right. >> Right. So this is where these are all these little barriers that come. Now, of course, the obvious ones, trauma, >> high stress environments, um, you know, dissociation, >> you know, a lot of people who struggle with panic and anxiety are very afraid of their breath, especially breath work because the way we breathe is has a bit of a hyperventilation feel and then they think they're having a panic attack. But I will tell you that I've taken many people who struggle with panic >> through breath work and it gave them back their life. It's wild >> when they realized >> that they can control the breath and that they can take themselves through a panic attack. See, panic attacks technically last a couple of minutes. >> Mhm. >> And because we have such fear, we prolong it. And when they realize that if they just slow down their breath because panic is shortness of breath. >> Right. >> Right. And when they realize that they can go through it >> in a safe space where they felt held >> where I wasn't afraid. >> Exactly. >> And I wasn't going to hospitalize them. right? >> You know, >> when they realized that >> they had the courage to go through it >> and they got their breath back >> and it it's like I literally get emotional when I think about it because it's like >> it's a gift. >> It's a powerful gift. >> It's a true gift. It really really is. >> And the client could then take that into their own life. >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Powerful. Powerful. So, which kind of makes me want to ask in general, how do you create safety for those who are experiencing deep emotions, not just panic, but any any deep emotion? >> So, let me ask a question back. >> You know, I'm a therapist. I need to do that. [laughter] >> How do we as therapists create safety for our clients, >> right? And the reason I'm saying this is because I think it's important for anyone any for any therapist out there who's doing breath work, right, to understand that we're not breath work facilitators. We're therapists and we use breath work. We're therapists first. >> Good. And that's a very important piece because >> we need to always remember our ethics, >> our boundaries, >> our legal license, >> and our commitment to holding safe space for our clients. >> Absolutely right. And there's so much out there in the field of breath work >> and I'm not going to speak for it because I'm not even there so I don't know but I just see >> right >> and a lot of people out there who are breath work facilitators who are wonderful wonderful human beings and God help them and give them the strength and the courage to be there and help people heal because the world needs more healers. >> Mhm. >> Right. But many if not most of them are not therapists >> and they don't have the training that we as therapists have. >> Mhm. >> Right. And it's not their fault. They're just not. Right. >> They also they don't hold that responsibility. >> And what's frightening about that is that we don't know what we don't know. And we as therapists also have to know that we don't know what we don't know. But what we do know is that when we decided to become licensed, we took on the oath of >> being responsible, >> ethical, boundary, >> save people in these clients lives. >> Absolutely. >> Right. >> And this is something I take very seriously. >> So when we move into something this deep and this powerful, >> without remembering, >> remember who you are. >> Mhm. >> Right. remember what you hold for this client. >> We can overstep boundaries very easily. >> So safety is a huge part of that. >> Right? >> So the real question is who are you as a therapist >> before? How do we create safety for breath work? Who are you as a therapist? And how do you create safety in your room? >> Yeah. >> In general. In general, not just in >> breath work. In general, >> are you a safe person? >> Mhm. Can you look at yourself and say, "I do whatever I can, whatever is in my power to create safety for my clients." >> Right? The second level, I think, is safety within yourself. >> Are do you feel safe within yourself to go to places that are unknown, >> that are deep and meaningful and sometimes difficult? >> Right? Do you have that capacity within yourself? Because if you don't, >> then you won't be able to hold safe space for that client. If that client goes to a place that's really difficult, you won't be able to take them through it right >> successfully. >> Yes. >> So your own practice, >> taking care of yourself, >> doing your own healing, having your own therapy, your own supervision that creates safety for the client. >> And then education, >> know what you're doing. >> When I took my training and you were there with me, >> we got very little psycho education, >> right? We knew what to do and it was a lot of fun the training guy. >> We were the only therapist in the room. >> Exactly. >> It was not a clinical training at all. >> Therapist in the room of 24 people. >> Right. It was not clinical at all. >> So we learned the modality. >> Right. But it wasn't clinical. >> It was not trauma informed. >> Mhm. >> Right. It did not um abide by ethical boundaries. >> Mhm. >> There was a lot happening there that was >> wonderful for whoever was there >> Mhm. in their own way, >> but not something I would bring to my clients. >> But for a lot of people, it was more more questions than answers. Right. Exactly. They what was happening sometimes we had the language to explain it and they did not. >> Exactly. Right. Remember that we we were able to like, you know, explain this is what's happening. That's what's happening. So the education, the knowledge is so important. >> And this is something that I really break down when I teach therapists is like what's happening? What are you seeing? What can you expect? What are you going to notice? M >> cuz that creates safety. >> How to prepare a client before a session. >> How to make sure the client is ready to do a breath work session versus mini breath works versus just breath awareness versus meditation. >> Like how do we know what to do? >> Knowing our knowledge is gives us a lot of power. >> Mh. >> Right. Knowing what to do and um you know so that's and all that and then again also explaining to the client that you're in full control. >> Mhm. You can stop this at any time. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Letting the client know that they have to all they need to do is close their mouth and breathe regularly. >> Exactly. Exactly. Letting the client know, asking, getting consent, >> right? Breath work sometimes involves like touch. >> Make sure the client agrees with that. >> Allowing people to say no without any consequences. >> Correct. Right. So, there's so many different things. You know, when I was developing this training, I I I never planned on being a trainer. You know that, right? I still don't know how I got here. But when once once it exactly I have no way better way of saying that >> I sat down with a lawyer to discuss it every angle of it. Brilliant >> to to put together a consent form that gives the clients very clear stuff around it like >> informed true informed consent. >> True informed consent. Exactly. >> Right. And so this is all these different ways that we we we make sure that we create a space where the client is safe to go through the process >> and and to work through whatever it is that comes up. >> We're also there for our clients afterwards. >> You know, some people do get disregulated after a therapy session, after a breath work session. Absolutely. >> And we say to them, you know, we schedule a session afterwards, come in and talk about it because people are very afraid of their dysregulation. People are very afraid of triggers. But if we're going to be afraid of it, we're never going to heal. >> We need to move into it. We need to not be afraid of getting triggered. We need to not be afraid of and walk around in our life avoiding things that trigger us >> because our triggers is our body's way of saying that this is an issue that's unresolved within myself >> and that person is just a messenger. >> That situation is just a message. It's a messenger coming to inform us that this is a place that's unresolved within you. If someone triggers me, I say thank you. >> Thank you. That's information. >> I don't want to have to avoid anything in my life because I'm afraid it's going to trigger me. >> Beautiful. >> I want to be able to walk around free to explore, to live, to breathe >> without having to worry that someone's going to tick me off because if you're ticking me off, then there's something I need to look at. >> Right. >> Right. So >> yeah, >> that's the work. Yeah, >> that's the work. That's the work. But when I believe that, >> right? So if a client comes in and tells me, I got so triggered, right? If I'm not comfortable with triggers, >> I might say, "Well, then you really should not visit your mother-in-law again if she triggers you that much." >> Wow. >> You shouldn't be going there. >> Like, why do you And I might even sound very intelligent. I might do something like this like I'd like to understand. >> Mhm. >> Why do you allow yourself to go into situations where you keep being triggered like that? >> Wow. >> Like maybe you should not allow yourself to go to this family somehow because this person that triggers you is there. >> This is where we put boundaries. Put a boundary. And it sounds wonderful. >> Mhm. >> It sounds wonderful. But what you're really doing to that client is you're you're you're >> limiting their world. >> You're limiting their world in a way where they are they are at the mercy of their world. >> Like I will be okay when the world is okay. >> I will be okay when people stop bothering me. Yeah. I will be okay when somebody stops getting in my way at a wedding. I need to avoid. And you know what? If the person that's triggering you at this sa is the one that hurt you, >> why does he have the right or she have the right to keep hurting you that way, >> right? >> And that you can't go enjoy a family sa because >> that person's there. >> Mhm. >> Why? >> Right. >> Why our work instead? So we could do it that way. We can say we can be all psychological and very beautiful and put boundaries and and you shouldn't go to your mother on Shabas afternoon because then when she makes comments to you d >> Mhm. >> Or a client comes in and says, "I went to my mother Shabas afternoon and she made a comment to me and I got so triggered." And I'll look at the client and say, "Tell me more about that." >> Mhm. >> Tell me more about what got you triggered. >> Yeah. In my mind, I think, isn't that wonderful? Now I know where the work is. >> Right. >> Giving me a road map. >> You just gave me You just told me exactly what we need to work on today. >> Yeah. Like what got you triggered? >> What do you need to do to help [clears throat] yourself not get triggered? >> But to tell them to avoid that, why should we cut, you know, in very very small percentage, you know, a child should should not be to not have contact with their parents, right? It happens unfortunately sometimes, >> very rarely. But yes, but then why should we cut children off from their families of origin just because they get triggered there? >> Strengthen them. Get them to a place where they don't get so triggered, where they can feel >> strong and not everything, you know, >> it's it's okay. It's okay. So, and you know, you get >> like like you and I will always discuss, you know, a client terminates successfully terminates treatment after a year or two, three, whatever it is of therapy. And you ask them, you say, "Well, what's different in your life?" Their life is pretty much the same. >> Exactly. >> How they handle their life is completely different. >> Exactly. >> And that that's that's the magic. >> And I tell this to clients even in therapy many times. They'll tell me, you know, I feel so much better and I and I enjoyed this wedding and it was not [music] so triggering and d and then I'll tell them, "So, what changed in your family?" >> Did your mother change? [music] >> Right. >> No. Did your family change? No. Mhm. >> Was it in a special hall that had this beautiful vibe that that is that changed? No. [music] So, what changed? >> And often they can't even tell me. They're like, I don't know. Right. >> And I say, you know what changed? >> You changed. >> Yeah. >> And that's and that's what healing is all about. >> Exactly. >> That I can tolerate my world. >> I can I can tolerate myself. I can stay in my body. And I started saying it before and I want to say it again. Mhm. >> When we spoke about the dual awareness, >> yeah, >> I I realized this very powerful thing that many people see some people can't go into the breath or into their trance because they have a hard time with that, right? But then there are many people who are so good at dissociation. They're experts, >> right? >> And they can go into these deep psychedelic spaces >> and soar. >> Mhm. >> Right. And they'll come back and they'll be like, "Oh my god, what a trip. What a trip. What I saw? I I met my ancestors." Yeah. They go, "Yeah." >> Yeah. >> Our job, our goal really >> is to get them to a place where they can go there while they stay in their body. >> Yes. >> Stay in the body >> and watch yourself go there >> instead of dissociating and going there. Right. >> It's a very like >> it's nuanced. >> It's a very nuanced piece. But but what I'm learning is that that's where the work lies >> to keep people embodied >> in duality. >> Yeah. >> Stay in your body >> and then go here. So this is something I work on a lot because I do a lot of different kind of things, not just breath work, right? And many times I take people back in time to different things and you know >> very important. Don't be with me. Mhm. >> Be with me first and then I'll I'll take you there. >> Right. >> To stay in the we're in this body in this life. >> Mhm. >> And stay in the current and watch that and there's such beautiful healing that happens there. It's amazing. >> Mhm. >> It's it's just >> this is like a a really like a spiritual work. >> Yeah. It's very integrated healing. >> When we can bring that here, >> beautiful. You know, some people would tell me like like I had this past life memory that came up, right? I saw myself here, there, and everywhere, right? >> And I believe in that kind of one. >> Sure. >> You know, cuz I've been there myself as well. >> And I tell them, you know, you've had many lives and you've had many, many experiences. You were given the privilege where the veil lifted and you got to see something >> from one of your lifetimes, a snippet, a sliver. >> Why that? >> Exactly. >> Why did that come up for you? >> Mhm. >> And then I'll say to them, how does that is still that that concept still apply today? >> Tell me about how this is in your life right here, right now. >> And the message they get is that you are doing soul work here. >> That you've come into this life to resolve and to work through something. Whether it's a past life trauma, >> whether it's a past life um a piece of a part that needs to be evolved, >> a correction that needs to happen at tikun, >> right? >> Mhm. >> And they were given that that privilege. It's like really a gift of like a snippet >> of like a a vision that came through, >> right, >> for you to understand that this is something that's still happening here now. >> It's a pattern that keeps repeating itself. And very often I'll tell the person, take me back as far back as you can in this life. when you remember yourself feeling this kind of fear or anxiety or urge or whatever and they'll like go back and back and back and they'll be like forever I feel like it's since I'm born >> it's always there >> like I see myself like and it's always been there it's because at that point we've moved into spiritual work >> and at that point we've moved into the spiritual realm >> of healing >> wow >> and you know when I talk about it I get chills because that's that's very power I of Oh, >> don't get me started. That's >> that's where I I I hang out. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> I love the spiritual aspect. >> Yeah. >> of working on these levels. It's just >> Yeah. >> It's it's it's fascinating stuff and I definitely can lean into it as well. I'm wondering if you see like a progression with it. Does somebody need to heal this and then that and then they can go deeper into spiritual you know work um healing on a soul level or is it not necessarily in any particular order? >> So yes and no. >> Okay. >> Right. So we never know where a person's going to go >> like >> it's we're literally at the mercy of God. We go in and whatever needs to happen happens. We can't decide where they're going to go once they're going with their breath because it's really their personal medicine and it's really depending on their personal process. Right. >> Right. And what he wants for that person. Okay. >> However, there's something magical and beautiful that happens in breath work. Right. >> That it's like we go in and there are like layers and layers and layers, right? Mhm. >> So let's say a person will come for their birth first breath work session >> and they have this beautiful emotional release because they made contact with something >> and then they'll come in the next time and they'll do breath work again and they'll be like I don't know last time I had such a deep emotional experience and today it was lighter >> right and I'll say that's wonderful that's the goal >> right >> if you have to keep repeating the same thing over and over again then nothing's happening >> so what I'm finding so interesting is that the breath work each time we do it, it peels off another layer. It goes somewhere else and that layer peels off and peels off and because we're one person with one nervous system, >> right? We we are not here. We we open the knot here and we open the knot here and we open the knot here and all of a sudden things start flowing. >> Right. >> And people start feeling better. >> Right. >> Right. Because their nervous system is is is balancing. Right. >> It's like when you think of a garden hose, right? If it's twisted here, twisted here, and twisted there, it's still one hose. If >> I open this and I open this and open this, I don't have to start pulling water out. It'll just flow through, right? Something so something beautiful happens right there. >> Right. >> With with groups that I run >> that are ongoing. >> Mhm. >> That's why I love the closed groups because you know I do mostly with therapists only. >> Mhm. >> So in these ongoing groups like one of the groups that I run is go it's going for over like what is a year and a half two years for sure. for sure two years already where they come in monthly once a month they come in and they just approximately once every six weeks they come in and we continue the breath work process right >> with them at this point >> the it's it's magical it's sacred >> it's like when we do breath work everyone goes deep it's soft >> it's gentle >> and it's it's just the energy is so is stunning >> right And it's not so much like gut-wrenching trauma work anymore. >> Right. >> You can see that they've moved away from that. >> Right. And and it's so yeah, there's like a natural progression that happens that when we clear out, clear out, clear out at some point, >> you know, and the conversation afterwards, you know, we always talk afterwards. It used to be like mother, father, sister, brother, trauma, school, bullying. >> And now it's like I I got a real sense of like my meaning, my purpose, my my goals in life, and what's holding me back. And powerful >> and it's like and and I sensed into this like deep soul space. And one person said like, I felt such a deep connection on a soul level. I felt God in my life. And >> and you know, it's it's it moves. >> It's very spiritual. It's a beautiful process. And so, yeah, there is a progression that happens if you keep doing your work. At some point, you're going to meet your soul. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> You're going to meet your soul and >> it's a beautiful thing. >> And and that's, you know, at one point I was doing a breath work session just happened just recently and because it's a group that I've taken through many many processes, right? So, they've peeled away so many of those layers of trauma, pain, whatever it is. >> And I asked a question of us, you know. >> Yeah. Exactly. Right. So, I asked a question at the end during um like like the last like we were doing the breath work and I was kind of guiding them and I invited them to go back in time as far back as you can go to the moment when you took your first breath when you were born. >> Right. And I said, "Who were you before the world told you otherwise?" >> And I just threw that question out. >> Yeah. >> Like, who are you at your core? >> Right. Before >> essence, before everything. >> Exactly. Before all those messages, >> before the conditioning, >> before rules, >> before systems, >> when you were just a soul coming into this world on a mission, >> Mhm. before anything got in your way. >> Yeah. >> And it was profound, Miriam. >> Yeah. >> It was so profound. >> Mhm. >> Because it was like looking in the mirror, but a clear mirror. >> Yeah. >> A clean mirror >> of suddenly finding yourself saying all that I believed about myself, all that I thought, all that I >> I I all those barriers, >> it's not who I am. >> It's not my truth. >> Right. It's [snorts] I'm not that. >> Yeah. >> And to come back into that space of And then I asked them, I said, "Why are you here? >> Why did you come down here?" >> Mhm. >> What were you hoping? What are the patterns that keep repeating itself that will point you in the right direction of what you came here to resolve and to figure out? >> Miriam, it was so beautiful. >> Wow. >> And we were talking afterwards and O >> Yeah. You know >> what a gift. >> It's such a gift. Such a such a gift. Such a gift. And I'll go back to what we started with. >> Mhm. >> It's a gift that we were given. >> Mhm. >> By God. >> Yeah. >> It's our It's our God-given gift. It's our right as humans. It's our birthright. >> And only humans have breath. You know, spirits don't have breath, >> right? They don't they don't need that. But we we we we always think like, oh, if I was a spirit, I could seek and have better vision. Mhm. >> But that's a myth. But really, we all can have better vision >> if we allow ourselves to go there and to peak a little >> beyond that veil. >> But we all were we were given a tool to do that. >> Yeah. >> Right. But through pain and life and trauma and stress and and whatnot, it was taken from us. >> Mhm. >> But we can take it back. It's ours. >> Right. Right. And if you ask me on a personal level, what I found through breath work, it was that >> it was that it's in my control. It's my it's mine. >> My breath is mine. >> My breath can take me where I need to go, >> right? >> And um it can shift and my life changed. >> My life changed. I I'm just I'm a different person in this world >> just because I'm in contact with my breath. >> Mhm. There's an integration, a wholeness. >> Yeah. Like you know, people talk a lot about healing, right? >> What is healing? Does that mean that my life is going to be easy, smooth, great, fabulous, nothing's going to get in my way? >> No. Life is life. And there are times that I might feel anxious and times that I might feel really upset or frustrated or angry or annoyed or or stuff might happen that's very stressful or I can have wonderful things in my life that are very stressful. I can move into a new home, right? I can marry with my child. I can have a new baby, which is great. We want it, >> but it can create so much stress, right? >> If I can tolerate myself through it >> and stay embodied >> and stay grounded >> Mhm. >> then that's power. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Right. And that's healing. >> And that's super healing. Yeah. >> Right. So nobody guarantee you a life that's going to be painfree >> or hardship free >> but we need to be able to tolerate ourselves. We need to be able to stay >> in presence. We need to be able to sometimes lose it >> but find have a way back. >> And what's the way back? >> Take a moment. Come back. Come back. >> Right. It's okay. >> It's okay. Whatever it is >> we can do this. We'll get through it. >> Right. Everything passes and nothing lasts forever, >> right? >> Neither the good nor the bad. >> And if I can just tolerate myself and stay in my body and stay present. >> Mhm. >> During that time, it'll it'll pass faster and smoother. >> Mhm. >> And I'm even going to learn some lessons from it. >> Yeah. Right. >> Right. And actually like now you know hard fact science shows like kids who never get a no, never get any hardships really struggle in adulthood. It's not about life not being frustrating, difficult, challenging to some degree. We don't look for trouble but it's learning how to overcome it. That's the skill we need to develop. >> Mean it means learning how to manage distress. >> Correct. You know, I just was watching this incredible um thing on on a research that was done with children. They took young children, maybe you saw it. >> They took young children and and they they did this experiment where they took a big marshmallow. >> Oh, yeah. >> You saw it. >> Marshmallow test. Yeah. >> Yeah. And they put it in front of the child. >> Mhm. >> And they told the children, each child separately, that here you have one marshmallow and you can eat it. However, if you don't eat it for 15 minutes, you're going to get two marshmallows. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> And some children could not. They just had to eat it. >> Mhm. >> And then you saw those children who would watch it and they would smell it >> and they could touch it, >> but they wouldn't eat it >> cuz they're waiting. They know >> they're going to get two. >> Short-term pain, long-term gain, right? Like they know they're going to get two. And the mo most interesting part of this research was that year they they followed these children >> years later the ones who were able to tolerate their discomfort >> Mhm. >> did better in life. >> Right. Delay gratification >> on so many levels. They were more successful >> they were they did better on their tests. They did and the ones who could not tolerate their own discomfort >> were the ones who really struggled. >> Yeah. >> Addiction. >> Mhm. >> Hardship. not being able to make it in life, right? >> So, >> this is this is the core of it all. Tolerate yourself. Can you sit in your discomfort? >> And then when I speak to people and they tell me, "I'm afraid of breath work because it's going to take me into my body >> and I cannot tolerate myself." >> Then that's the work. >> Let's quit all other therapy. >> Yeah. >> Let's not talk about your traumas for a long time >> and let's get you to a place where you can first tolerate yourself. Mhm. >> If you can't sit through it, then what are we doing? >> Yeah. >> And this is what, you know, they talk a lot about in somatic therapy is that we talk about traumas. You're basically retraumatizing the person because if the person can't talk to through their trauma while they're in their body, >> then they're basically telling their story, freezing up again. Now, we have another layer of that same thing. >> 100%. >> Right. So, yeah, I think this is such an important um >> you know, piece of tolerate ourselves. This might be it. But if you could leave our listeners like with with one message um a practice, something you feel that they should know about the healing power of breath work, what would it be? >> I would say two things. First of all, I don't want to say healing power of breath work. I want to say healing power of breath. >> Okay. >> I want to differentiate that because breath work is an intervention. >> Mhm. >> Breath is life. >> Beautiful. >> Okay. So I really want to differentiate. >> So that in and of itself is a very powerful message. >> Yeah. >> Remember the breath is constant and if you learn to pay attention to it to take care of it just like you need to hydrate and and be nourished take care of your breath >> it'll ch yeah it'll change creates a dramatic shift >> 100%. So because breath work is an intervention. It's something we do. It's like doing open heart surgery. >> Not everyone needs open heart surgery but everyone needs a heart. >> Yeah. [laughter] you know, love. >> So the breath is the heart, >> right? >> So, so the question you asked again is >> if you could leave it if there's a a message about breath or breath work or about healing in general that you would want everyone to know. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, h let me take a breath. >> Yeah. A parting gift. >> Yeah. So there are two thoughts that pop in. >> Mhm. >> A if you're not in contact with your breath in a holistic way. I'm talking about not just like I'm breathing because I'm surviving chest breathing. >> Mhm. >> Then you're not healing. >> Mhm. >> And I want this message to go out to everybody. >> Mhm. >> Therapists included. >> If your client is not breathing, you're not healing. You're just keeping yourself busy. >> Mhm. >> Doing things. >> Mhm. >> And it's not fair for anyone. >> Mhm. >> So, I'm going to say this clearly. If your client is not breathing, they're not healing. >> If you're not breathing correctly, deeply, meaningfully, consciously, then shifts are not happening. >> Mhm. >> You're just doing therapy. You're not living it. >> Mhm. >> Okay, that's one thing. And then there's a very passionate message that I want to get out there. I really believe in a very deep way that healing was never meant to be this hard. >> Too many people are struggling >> through their healing. >> It's like the pain of healing is worse than the pain of their trauma. It's like they spend years trying to move through >> something that happened to them once or twice or three times in their life. >> Right. Or even if it was ongoing complex trauma. >> Mhm. >> Right. What's what Yeah. And I'm not again I want to repeat what I said before. I'm not talking about the years that it takes because again I don't care if if you're in therapy for the rest of your life. Mhm. >> Are you doing better? >> Are you living life to the highest and best? >> Are you in good relationships? >> Right. >> Are are are you happy with your life? Are you content? >> Mhm. >> Right. >> Are you healthy? >> Mhm. >> Are you strong? >> Are you smiling? >> Right. Are you living life? >> If that's the case, great. Mhm. >> But if not, and many not, many people are waiting for the day that a miracle happens and they start living. >> Mhm. >> And they're so afraid of dying, but they're not even living. Isn't that sad? >> Yeah. >> They live their whole life afraid of dying and they haven't lived a day in their life. >> Yeah. >> And it's so painful. >> Mhm. >> Healing was never meant to be this hard. >> There's there are ways to do this >> in a way that brings you to a much better place. People ask me sometimes like when they when I see a new client, how long will it take until I feel better? >> And it's that question that we therapists get all the time. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> And I tell them, I don't know. I wish I could tell you because my guess is as good as yours. >> Mhm. >> Right. But one thing I will tell you, within 6 to 12 weeks, you're going to start feeling that something is shifting inside. Mhm. >> And you're going to know that you're on the right track. >> And if not, we need to talk about it. >> Mhm. >> You're going to start sensing that healing is starting to happen. >> Mhm. >> How long it'll take in the long run, we don't know because a lot depends on me, on you, and on the environment, on your nervous system, on on the story, on what happened to you. We don't know. We don't know. >> But you should know. You should be able to feel that even though it hurts and sometimes it hurts a lot in the beginning and sometimes it feels worse in the beginning than better. Takes time because we we're opening up spaces >> but even in that pain you're going to know that you're in the right place. You're going to know >> that this is this is a track that this is a journey. >> Right? And if not then we need to talk about it. Right? So I think people should be able to sense it to feel it. You know I personally >> therapy took me many years. >> I had a lot to unpack. >> I had a lot to unpack. But you know what? >> It was life force for me, >> right? >> It was my life force. It was >> I I can feel I I didn't know if you asked me today if I knew it was going to take this long what I have done. I never would have started. But you know what? as I was doing it, >> I never wasted I never felt that one session was wasted. >> It was my life force and it was it was healing for me >> and I was able to make shifts in my life >> and do things and and start creating and start building and slowly slowly slowly I was coming up and out. I don't care how many years it took me. Right. >> Those years passed anyway. >> Right. >> But here I am. >> Mhm. >> Right. Here I am to tell the tale. >> Mhm. >> And I'm not there anymore. >> Mhm. I've been reborn. >> I'm a whole new person. I feel like I had a near-death experience. Like I died and I got I was reborn, right? I really believe that. Right. >> But yeah, so this is my message really, you know? >> Beautiful. >> Whatever you're doing, keep doing it. >> Don't stop. >> Bring the breath in. >> And it's like putting oil on the machine. >> It starts to move, >> right? >> Starts to move. It's all we need. Mhm. >> Bring your God-given gift into your life >> and continue your CBT, DBT, EMDR, IFS, um, somatic therapy, hypnosis, you name it, >> etc. >> Energy healing, right? >> Whatever you want. Do everything. >> Mhm. >> Bring the breath in. >> Beautiful. Thank you so much. >> Yeah. >> For your time, for your wisdom, for your compassion. It really is enlightening speaking to you and to be continued. I look forward to many more of these conversations and bringing >> just this wisdom and gift of yours to everybody. >> Thank you. [music]