Ep. 8: The Unknown Story of 12-13 Tammuz with Rabbi Dovid Margolin

Our goal is not democracy. Our goal is termitzas. But through termites, you're you're you're you're you're destroying. Anyway, so that I think you see that in the story of of Yud Hamas and you see that in the trajectory and um I think that's an amazing uh it's an amazing thing when you when you open your eyes to be able to look at it that way. And it gives us a deeper understanding in the letter that the wrote that theb quotes probably every that not only was right every single was has a part in the miracle of that it's not just the personal imprisonment. I'm Yasi Cayman. Welcome to among an ongoing fabin about life as a vibrant connection with the Reba and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. How are you David? >> Good morning. How are you? >> Good morning. Doing well. I think it's afternoon but uh it's uh after Fabangan last night. Maybe maybe it's only the morning. Um, so thank you for making the time to be here. And it's actually um in honor of you, Bamos, I uh felt it would be appropriate to have a conversation with you. Um, you did some phenomenal work with your work uh.org on yubis tamos and I believe the premise of it all and you can fill in I believe the premise of it all is that the rebba said that the miracle of was an open miracle that uh there's a whole explanation that it needed to happen specifically at that time when there was persecution and hashem needed to show an open miracle and on the other hand it was also a nest that was enclosed in natural the natural order. So I think what you've done is you've uncovered the behind the scenes of the natural order through which the miracle has happened. Is that is that correct? Yeah. It's really it's about putting together the pieces that are already there. Meaning the mentions here and there he mentions a detail and the detail is always a part of a much longer larger context. So when you see the larger context and you're able to see it, put it all together, then you're able to see all the the story as it's told by the by the you're able to see it in a much clearer way because you have the context of everything that's going on going on around it that only magnifies everything that that that the said, >> right? I think um for most people that are familiar with the story of Tamos um the way I was taught it and the way the way most people know it is based on primarily the writing and these these works have been translated over the years and I I think that is not people kids don't really know about it very well at least because it's in the summer and therefore they miss it and the way that We teach about the pagas and just basic events in kamad history is whenever you get to it. So you get the Utiskus you talk about Utiskus you get B time was is in the middle of the summer it's it's just not it's half of February and maybe in camp I don't know I don't remember exactly what what happens in camp but I think that that's >> part of what's missing completely is that no one gets to Tamas because deep in the summer and um whatever it's color war I don't know what >> right exactly and I want to mention that uh in the new book by de our days um each pagra has first of all the story of that Yam and then how it it was commemorated by the Reba and then the lessons and takeaways and in preparation for our conversation um I reread that section and noticed not only is your work footnoted in the book but uh the the way we wrote it is actually influenced by by your work. So I think let's get down to it. Um what was the I guess we just start telling the story and then we'll understand um we'll understand you know what you uncovered and uh I think so I think it's important whenever we talk about Soviet Jewish history and this whole chapter is to break it down into it's not all one thing. So usually we start you say a story from the 1920s from the PS and you're talking about the freed in in in Lenenrad it's told it's told and spoken about in the same way about what happened in Sadi when people were arrested when was arrested it's spoken about the same way as what happened in the 40s and the 50s and 60s and okay at some point of time it got better but like it's very very vague and so there's a whole there's like 40 years where everything is treated exactly the same which is not the case. It's a very fluid situation the entire time. So I think to be able to understand what happened 1927 in Pain when the Fred was arrested you have to step back and see what's happening in the in in in in the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union in in in um when it becomes the Soviet Union. >> So you're saying that the like the inand were not being persecuted? No, they were being persecuted just it's a different situation meaning it's a completely different >> okay so what is the background what was happening so first of all the had just recently moved from Rustav right >> right the the leaves Lavich and goes to Rustav and there is the historic >> that's before the that's before the revolution that's during during World War I right so there was a revolutionary movement going on in the Russian Empire from already the end of the 1800s right so there there's There's there's movement towards it. A lot of yeden were involved in that rabel rousing for revolution. It doesn't mean the boleviks in particular. Later on there was the communist party. The communist party was the boleviks. They were at some point of time one small party of many parties joined under like one segment of the Russian labor socialist party democrat what I forgot the exact terminology. >> The whites. No, no, no. The whites are not part of this at all. The whites are the are the anti-communists. They're anti- allrevolution >> democracy >> or monarchists. It's a whole mix of groups. They don't really have an ideology. They're just against >> the revolutionaries are all a whole bunch of groups that all have their own vision. There's the Bolsheviks. There's the Mencheviks. Famously, the Mencheviks were were more popular than the Bolsheviks. Bolsheviks named themselves better. They called themselves larger. the BA is big, right? So where the bigger section and the Menchik were called the smaller one, Mencha small less, but really the Menchviks were more popular than the Bolshik was was um >> it was um branding. So there's all these different groups. There was a specifically Jewish group, the Bund, which was socialist Jews who were into, you know, everything was in Yiddish and they were against the Zionists and against the FUMA and that was so these are all a bunch of groups that are all part of this together. There was a revolution in 1905 before before the the revolution in in in 1917 meaning before the actual communist revolution. So that led to a bunch of reform that it failed but there it led to a bunch of reforms >> and obviously what happens when a when a when a when when a totalitarian state desire was a totalitarian also meaning he's in control of entire country. So when he needs to give in to reforms that already is sewing the end of the sewing the end of the of of of his >> that's what happened at the end of communism also. >> Yeah these reforms end up end up untying the entire thing. So then came 1917 came the revolution. Okay, that's the beginning of the revolution. The revolution was really part of it wasn't a mass gathering of people. It was a coup. They made a coup in landing ground which is called Peterberg at the time. They made a coup. They took power in the capital city and then the Bolsheviks at some point of time took control of that. Right after the most radical group, the Bolshiks are the most radical group. And the way that it works, this happened in Iran. Also, when the Sha fell around that time, there's a lot of people against the Sha, but the most radical group, the Islamists are the ones who ended up taking control because they're ready to do the most. They're ready to to go to all ends to win. So, they won. So, that's what happened in in in in uh in Lenenrad. And then there was a war for a few years. There was a war. this Russian civil war from 1917 till 1920 21 pay and so the freed left uh left lab right >> during World War I >> during World War I and he moved to Austav and all this happens during this time in our stuff and and and we're not I don't we're not going to get into it but like analyzes what's going on um what's happening outside if you stand if you go to there's a the porch outside of the room where you can see where the had had stood and watching the marches of the revolutionaries on Bratzky you can see it's a small Bratzky is the I'm sorry it's a small street and BV is is the is the street where they were marching where the revolutionaries so is watching all this and commenting no I I visited >> you visited >> and so the freeda writes that notes all these things down and writes them down for us. So from 1920 when the fre from after basis when the fre becomes the rabba they're still everything is still in flux but there are slowly the boleviks who had taken control they took control of the of the of of what had been the Russian empire and they now have but it took time there was there was fighting there was war the f one of the first things that they're doing is communism until this um is an idea. Now you have to govern right now you have to govern as as a communist. So what does that mean? So you have all these ideas which are are good in theory whatever not good in theory but I mean like are fine for them to have in theory and you have to go implement them. So you have right away uh start taking away the farms from the from the from the from the from the workers. >> What's the word for it? >> Collectivization. >> Yeah. Collectivization. >> Collectiviz. So they they kits they bottom line is that they paused on it because it became a disaster very very very quickly. The Freda writes very frequently about nep right that there there was a period of time over there from like 1922 to 1926 something like that where they they were forced the new Soviet regime was forced to allow a market economy small markets yeah they took away the big factories they took away big things and they kept them but they can't you can't feed the pe the people when when when I'm a farmer and I had a whole field and now I can't work the field cuz it's not mine anymore. So they gave back. They said new make a small market economy and people there was food back on the tables. There was there was there was a there was a small period of time where there was money. There was money again for like people had money because there was a market economy. The market economy makes sense right >> here. They're trying to put everything in in theory. Anyway, at the same exact time comes the war on religion. >> So that's during this period of >> during this period from the first 10 years of the Soviet regime comes the war on religion. You have to remember that the war on religion it's it's it's it's it's not like a byproduct. It's part and parcel of the whole idea. So what's communism doing? Communism is saying we're creating a new universe, a new world. History begins from now. Everything before was me meant to blind you. the the the the religion was meant to it's you're supposed to like the the you know the clergy is blinding you in order that you should give them money to support their lifestyle and they're keeping you down because you're like a sheep and you're you're the opium of the masses all this stuff this is basic stuff >> this is Mark's uh this is >> yeah marks and then Lenin goes even even even you know there's like whatever like there's goes on Lenin is even more extreme about it he says everything bad is uh is is is worthwhile I'm sorry is is better than the subtle evils of religious thought of spirituality because they sense a danger in this. So it goes against the very basic of who they are that the truth and world history everything now begins at this point and we're creating a new world and that means that a lot of a lot of there's thousands of years years of history you're destroying all of that a lot's going to have to to be destroyed >> right the fact that that nations live in certain places that you own this land you could have owned this land for seven generations we're going to have to this be very painful for you right but like for the for the greater good >> we have to restart >> we have to do everything has to be done again. So, religion is a very very key key element of this. There's a there's um I think just in general because I know a lot of time you hear like I hate hearing it but communism is a good idea in theory. It's not a good idea in theory. It's an evil idea in theory. And and they're just they're ready to do that work to to put their theory into practice. But it it's horrible in in every in every way, shape, and form. It's about equality of of of of uh you know, the end needs to be equal, right? The equality of results. So there was a there's a political philosopher named Hans Morganthaw. He came to the AB actually a few times and he corresponded um and he's buried in in uh it's a whole like Bamsky story. He's buried in in a uh in the first new over there in in near the aisle. So this Hans Morgan thou >> the one on the right of the >> I don't remember. We just passed it now on the on the line by the aisle. The So Hans Morganthau was a political philosopher. He's a German Jew. Um he um he was the father of political of of international relations as a political as a academic uh as a scholarship as a field of academic scholarship. So Hans Morgan thou writes and I think it's very very interesting in terms of why are totalitarian regimes against the Jews in particular. So he has like this interesting formulation. You just said that religion in general is is was the >> religion in general, but the Jews >> the Jews are it's always the Jews in particular. >> It's always with everybody. It's always the Jews in particular, >> right? >> And if there's no Jews there, then they they find whatever. Fine. But like, so he says that the Jews always had the Nvi and the Melik, right? They prophet. What is that? The na'vi is there as a check on political power. So the melik, the king is political power. But where does true power come from? Where does the truth and power come stem from? >> From the comes from God. >> That's the na'vi is representing that power and he's always the one on top. >> Right? >> Ever since then there's no now you don't have that. The Jews represent the prophetic vision in the world, right? That's what they represent. So >> because we don't have the malus >> what now in the world this this idea of the na'vi is it's trans transposed onto the eden as a whole >> and we are in that position whether we understand it or not. It just this is the fact and therefore and and therefore a totalitarian regime any totalitarian regime cannot live in in in peace with the Jews consciously or subconsciously because of what the Jews represent. And Soviet communism in particular which says that truth stems from us, power stems from us. This is where it actually comes from. The existence of the Jews in their midst it it doesn't work. they can't possibly coexist which is in general I think a very good way of of looking at it which because it means we're not talking about yeah for sure but it's just the Jew as the Jew as the nama as a person who represents his his his very existence that's that's a anyway so back to >> but but the Soviets didn't claim to be anti-semitic and there are in fact many Jews >> different meaning okay yeah that's true the fact so yeah okay so >> some of the founders of the on the you know >> so first of all there there's there's there's there's uh there's certain things that are said usually by anti-semites that the Jews did the whole revolution it's not true there's a lot of Jews involved in the general revolutionary movement because what do you mean they're being oppressed over there in in in in the Russian Empire for that period in particular like the pagrums and Mendel balis and all these different things that are happening. So yeah, Jews were definitely involved with revolutionary with revolutionary activity. The Bolsheviks in particular there was a few big names Trosky combs and like the big names who were part of the the central committee and they were like very very involved but uh first of all all of the all of those who were involved from an early period with the Bolsheviks were not educated Jews at all. none of them, not Trosky, not Zanov, not Kamov, they had no very very poor Jewish backgrounds like like educationally. And then more um most Jews were not part of the the Bolsheviks. So there's this statistic, I think I quoted it, um it's like a 1922, the amount of Jews who were part of the Bolevixs, part of the Communist Party, the Bolsheik party, which eventually, you know, which which at that point was the only party left that had been part of the party before 1917 was like a thousand. We're talking not a large number in the big context of things. So they didn't now after the revolution and after the Bolsheviks won of course if you were involved in the revolution before you're going to be involved with it >> with it later. So that's where the sex comes in. >> But your point of all this is saying >> yeah there's different >> there's a reason why they're mahad in persecuting the Jews because it's it's built into the subconscious or >> conscious. It's it's built into the system and obviously meaning they hand now they handed it off. So in the 1920s they go after the Jews in particular and who knows the best where the Jews are and how to deal with it and is interested in in it to like a real degree the Jews themselves because they bought into this whole vision. >> Right? >> So that's where you have the exia comes in. >> The exia is the Jewish >> theexia is the Jewish sections of the communist party. Not everybody really not all bolsheviks not all Jewish communists wanted to be part of the usexia. They hated meaning some of them hated the idea of these of the of the of the yexia. >> Why? >> Because what do you mean? We're fighting for the brotherhood of man. We're saying that everybody's equal, that it's class and not nation, right? So class meaning we're I'm a worker. You're a worker. What? Nothing makes a difference. Now you're telling me that I'm I'm I'm a Jew. I'm a Jewish worker and therefore I have to work through this. So a lot of people did a lot of them didn't like it. a lot of old Buddhists who had been part they they became part of uh of of the exaxia and they anyway they theexia bayle ran le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le led the charge through from 1920 until 1930 theaxia is not a government uh is not a government >> uh agency >> it's a party it's a part of the communist party now the true power in the Soviet Union came from the party because we're this is this is an ideology so the government is just the levers of actual power like they they pave the road they keep the lights on whatever the party is what controls the entire thing and what runs the runs the entire thing so the ifexa is a part of the communist party they don't arrest anybody they they they urge and file reports with the KGB then was called the OEO the gap >> it's not it's not not the gap it's oppo >> I think then Then particularly it was OAPU but it's the same thing they changed it was called the gapu then it was Oapu I don't remember maybe it was the the reverse and then became the >> andapo and they would restructure in in some kind of way and then like they make a new agency it's not just a sign on the door but mayor more or less it's it's a more or less it's a sign on the door um so the sex is not doesn't actually do arresting it tells the gapu it tells the KGB you go arrest those people and they can come along with them for for raids and like they can come because the the but the the party is the most important remember Stalin okay >> so where did Stalin's power come from Stalin in 1920 in in in 1922 right now I'm blinking whether he in in the in the early 20s he became the general secretary of the party okay and he unites a massive party he unites as like the central clearing house of all information everything goes through him This is still during the lifetime of Lennon >> of Len >> and therefore he was already put in this position and a very very powerful position because he's the only one who knows what what's going on in all parts of the of of the party which is slowly taking control of everything and he's there and then he doesn't have he's he's he just that's like being on top of the mountain and having to fight fight defensively, right? You're defending yourself from the mountain. He's already in the position of power. So, but he's not a government of he's not like the president of the Soviet Union. He's the head of the party. The and the party is the is is is is what what matters the most, >> right? >> Um in terms of in terms of political power now say just so the 1920s in terms of because we started off I think we were saying about the different tufas the different periods of power, right? Meaning how things changed. So from 1920 until 1930 there were there were in order really to take control of the country to take control of different different segments of the country they they came up with something which is really theoretically anti-Marxist. It was it was national kind of ident. So there's the sexia and other groups had their things right. They had this like the the kgizes and the tajiks and the Mongolians they have their own party. Mongolia wasn't formerly part of the Soviet Union but they was basically controlled the the they have their own part like so it's it's a group and Stalin called it I think national and form socialist in content right so this is so this is all one big part of now in 1930 things changed things changed and he got rid of the sexi there's no sex after 1930 so that that that was that was the end of it >> because ideally this whole thing doesn't fit with with the communist >> yeah and he he doesn't need it anymore and he He expelled meaning the Jews had been very say we're talking about the Jews in particular good you had it and most of these sex it was shot at the end of you know by the end of the decade in 1938 most of them were shot a lot >> included >> I think Lulov was not Nakmanson was was not I think Nakmanson was getting matzah from from uh >> from Kaman in 1993 something was alive till 1993 >> yeah I think I have a picture of him >> really Okay. >> He's the one from that from from >> he's the one that stopped them from opening from >> from Nson. This is what I I remember hearing. It makes sense to me that I mean we kind of know that Nakmanson when during the arrest he stopped the he stopped him from from waking up um Shanisara. >> Yeah. And also he's the one that wanted to carry >> the freed's bag. Right. Right. That wasn't that was >> Yeah. Yeah. >> He said my za carried the bags for your za. >> Yeah. >> said that you he he carried it with my where my zed wanted to go. You want to carry where you want me to go. >> Right. >> So but Lulov was saying was was eventually killed. >> Lul was killed. Yeah. Lul was I'm pretty sure I looked it up at some point. Um yeah. Okay. So here we >> they have sex. It was also was it like a they were like creating publica. It was like propaganda a lot of it. Right. But they And uh they took over they're the ones who took over the schos. >> So all and being cemented that was all these they made they made trials they made show trials. They made a show trial of of of the um in in in vit which is meaning like it's a show trial. It's not a real trial. It's they go they make the made defend and the community defend the concept of the the institution of the there was a trial of the yeshiva in rast and that's I believe that the money that that the fre's money meaning the money of bav was taken away after that I think that was 1922 I think it was pes roen bloom was was was defended it >> and um that's why by the shag's kasa they didn't have there was like there was there was nothing there they didn't have money everything was taken away after if I'm not mistaken it Right after the trial of of of the yeshiva um they did other ones Brismila whatever like m big public trials then they took out they took over Scholes they chased away Raban so they're not like left and right shooting people meaning even the the the the gapu they're not but this is really the decade when before that every single village had shors every town had sholes there was there was their institutions had infrastructure that was going on a life that had been there for a few hundred years, >> right? >> And 10 years 10 years they went completely to uproot it and meaning whatever in some ways they they succeeded in the in the in in in some ways. >> And I'm thinking that's probably when all the fian left Russia. >> What do you mean the stop becoming stopped being from I mean some people and a lot of people left >> the leftists that moved out. So the the institutions the institutions left 100% it was only after after 1922 or whatever something like that I >> so I think I think >> had something and they they they left at the at like early on >> um and I think was was in >> I remember hearing from somebody that regretted always that he left. So, but that's what I wanted to get to is that after they're going through this program of dismantling Yiddish and most of the institutions of Yiddish basically just just left or or Yidd whatever they lost it but the >> we're talking about three million Jews >> right but the is the only one like literally the only one that says actually I'm not leaving and we're going to make another >> 100% that's never that was never even a yeah that was never even a question so the freed establish lished the Vadra, Vadra, Vadra, USSR >> of of the of the Soviet Union, which was Zean was on it and meaning there was Rabonim was an active organization of of Rabonim. um that built Mikvo that that trained Rabonim um and with the idea of of bolstering meaning through you're you have you have leaders for villages and towns that need them and uh they go out and obviously in in the most meaning the sexi was the most powerful in the most Jewish places. So a town like VPS if you read about it and say it's it's it's there for for hundreds of years living there right? >> Yeah it's in in in the region it's in Belarus. So in vits you were there for hundreds of years they had massive you can see what the lavish show looked like a big threetory whatever a big a big the the was tremendously powerful there that's where they made the trial of the because they you know they have the power why you have the most so obviously you're going to have you're going to have uh such people there um so then so I guess let's to fast forward to to to uh to um to B Thomas in particular to the circumstances around the Fred Gabb's arrest and what happened and how you're able to see the the the NISSim that are Maluba because because every everything matches up so perfectly so beautifully that you look at it and you see like this picture this picture emerges and and and I I said all this stuff about communist theory because the tea here is is the tava of of of communist theory. Meaning that's it's it's it's happening within their world view, >> right? >> That everything is taking place, which I think is is is is fascinating. >> Okay. I don't understand yet what you're saying. I guess you have to say the story. >> Okay. >> So, chronologically, we're talking about the the exia is basically very successful. >> The exia is very very successful. the the there's there's tragic stories meaning what happened to Raanim they would go and and and they would put in the newspaper you know their family wouldn't be able to get um coupons to for food right so then the the the ra because it wasn't being a rabbi wasn't considered a job and if you're not you're a parasite then right >> right you're you're sucking off the system so then you wouldn't get and then the family and then very very the thing disintegrated very very quickly ly so that or the anybody who's involved with like you know the clay they had to put they had to make like ads in the newspaper and say I'm no longer doing this right and now I'm no longer a done and now I work as an accountant in a in a bottle factory so so you have a lot of that meaning and it happens very very very quickly because their kids whatever it goes on and yet from a from a from a people who specifically didn't tell their kids didn't educate their kids more than you can imagine who didn't tell I mean they okay I'm remaining a fian I'm continuing to do what I did why should I burden this this this what's going on around us is never going away >> so Mr. Navish wasn't a given >> for sure or not. What do you mean serious? What it's it's it's it's whatever. So, so that's it. I remember reading meeting a meeting a Jew on Marish actually and and and in in it was in Lithuania and this guy's like, "Yeah, my grandfather used to used to say um you know, I don't eat this because the Jews many, you know, we're in Egypt and whatever and we're in the desert, but you eat it, you know, about about like pig fat there." He was saying specifically goes why do I do this? I do this because the Jews many years ago did this. That's good for me. you you don't do it the entire Yish he told him it's not not for you not not bad people but this is the nature of what's going on and that's the that's what the fre is fighting against and that's what the fre is telling you you know first of all send their own children to to and second of all to go out to serve as and and it was dangerous again it was some people were arrested and sent away for sure meaning we we we know people who were sent away during that time they could also be beaten in the street. You can be beaten to death in the street. Th those are there was like there was there's a a town katap. I was on there too. So a town katap. There was a whole story with with with the head of the sex the writes his name laser levan and he I think they put a a bakim in a coma. So that's what's going on. It's like thug stuff on the street and it's taking over everything at all times. >> Right. And I want to say that uh it seems that the seeds for the having to work with to fight this battle was probably the establishment of >> for sure >> the were the ones that worked with and he made the the British with the but the Brit with the uh the nine I'm saying this is the was the precursor to wage the battle >> 100% which is exactly we started off talking about the different revolutionary movements So 100 that's mamish that's at the same time >> right like this is all going on around them was closed down because because they were all they were all revolutionaries whatever so they they left where where's their where's their uh so yeah 100% that's that's that's what seated the ability to fight the I think I think the rabbi writes this in particular it's an article in Kavage where he writes out like He maps out I don't know if the Reb's name is on it name is not on it right >> I don't know tell >> there's an article anyway there's there's an article on Kavich which like kind of maps out says it's about Tamos but it it's really like about what happened before and like the the the plan you know the organized plan everything is organized and we always have a plan so by and and you see the plan of educa of of the of the of the bakim being educated themselves and then going out and teaching and education as the tool to fight against and and that all that leads up to Yudbus. Okay, so let's just get to Yud Hamus because that's what we're really really we're here to discuss. So 1927 is like already a very very tense time. uh during that year Stalin who had had opponents within the the party meaning he was in a very good position but Trosky we know you know right was was was seen as who is the heir of of Lenin okay so he's in it's already very tense because of that he's defending himself so through the year he's consolidating power within within the party apparatus In May, there was a in May 1st. This is where where where we're going to start doing going through the dates. I wrote down the dates just because I think it's important cuz you see everything as uh May 1st, 1927. A Latvian delegation arrives in Moscow for to begin trade negotiations with with the Soviet Union. Latvia had been part is a Baltic country, right? That there's three Baltic countries, Latia, Lithuania, and Estonia. They had been part of the Russian Empire before the revolution. And then during the during the during the during World War I, really after World War I, they split off. They gained independence and really because the Soviet Union wasn't they tried taking it, but they weren't strong enough. They didn't they hadn't built their own power base well enough to to be able to control to keep control. the Soviet Union's eyes, Latvia belongs to them. >> Yeah, for sure. That's that's that's like the Russian mindset always. I mean, we we we see that we see that today, >> right? >> Right. Okay. You took it away from us cuz whatever, but we we don't we never lost it. >> Right. >> It's it's it's ours and it feeds into like a bigger picture which I think is very very important there. the Russians. Okay, the revolution is paranoid. This is this is like the nature again. This is like the laws of everyone said Stalin was a paranoid man. He was talking about paranoid man. But you have to understand how this actually works. What is what does Stalin represent? The people. There's a revolution that's made by the people who I I'm not part of it. No, everybody. The people made a revolution. The people, the people have the power, the people have control. How does that how do how does that how do you how do you what do you do with that? The party, the party represents the will of the people. >> Okay. >> The party represents the will of all people whether you know it or not. This is your will because everybody wants this. We all agree this is this is this is this is where everything is moving forward. The party is represented by the central committee. You have the central committee which which and the central committee is represented by the person of the general secretary, the head of the party. >> That's Stalin. >> That's Stalin or whoever it is later on. But Stalin does it does it to the most, you know, most effective. He's very good. So when if you made a joke about the revolution or you made a joke about uh the party really in the mindset you want to kill Stalin because Stalin is the the he's he is the revolution embodied. He's the will of the people embodied. It all makes sense. It it sounds crazy but to them it makes perfect sense. So the revolution being paranoid plays into everything that happens now in in in in in over the next few months with with with regards to the FIB's arrest is part of the fact that the revolution is a paranoid and it's part of part and parcel of communism. So the same way that history led up to this moment where the people and there's industrialization and what they have laws, history is is is a science, right? There's no like no no history is a science and it must develop in certain ways and it's it's not it's it's a pattern. It's a law. It's it's it's H2O is water. Yeah. You take this and you take that and it equals water. So So these are the elements that happen. This is this is I it doesn't like even what they said happened was supposed to happen didn't actually happen but they fit it into their mindset. And this is this is like they're really be able to they're they're able to they say that they're able to predict what's happening next. Right. >> Among is brought to you by we live in a chaotic world. A world where for us is a we do not have the ability to hear and see the on a daily basis. Yet we know that the is very much with us and is alive and thriving more than ever before. One needs to only tap into it provides you and your family with the tools necessary to tap into all of this. Whether it's the monthly magazine, the way it all began, whether it's their hair books, their hair online content, and so much more, men, women, and children throughout the world benefit and use these tools on a daily basis. Whether it's children enjoying the children's magazine that comes along with the regular deher or enjoying the children's podcast. 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The revolution is now the party, right? is is is this country. So they they they need to it's not like we fear that they want to. No, they have to. According to the way this works, the capitalist countries want to crush the revolution, >> right? >> So now they're they're they're they're paranoid, but instead they're paranoid because they have to be paranoid. That's that's the way that communism works. So Latvia is one of their own former republics. So they're making a trade deal with the with the Latians. Okay. They're particularly paranoid about their own former countries, the capitalists, using their former countries against them. This is like the the worst thing possession into Ukraine through we see it now also. It's like all these things make sense, >> right? >> Okay. >> So, what was this trade deal about? >> So, the Latian trade deal was a basic trade deal, meaning it was a complicated trade trade deal. Latvia had Bashm had a problem. Latvia wanted wanted, you know, had been part of the the Russian Empire and had deep water ports and for for trade with and it's now it's a it's a country the size of West Virginia. They have nothing to they have nothing to send out, >> right? >> Because they were >> they had been part of the Russian Empire and they were Shia Berlin, right? Shia Berlin who traveled with their cousin. He traveled with their with the right. That's that story when he went to Paris. Shy Berlin was in Ria. He was a wealthy man. He owned like a 100,000 uh hectare acres, I don't know, something a crazy amount of woodland. He was based in Ria. He owned a crazy amount of woodland. He owned the the the the mills that made the timber, the the ships that took it down and and that that spread it out and that sent this these the the the wood the lumber the like processed lumber to to Peterburg to London to Hamburg. So he was a he was a he was a big veer. But where is this? This is all because Lafia is a part of the Russian Empire. >> They're exporting the whole Russian Empire's goods. >> Yeah. Yeah. They a lot of export by the way a lot of Jews also left meaning between 1880 and 1920, right? The the Jews who were leaving the Pgrams and coming to America a crazy amount of them went through Latia went through those ports also on on ships to to which is why a lot of a lot of a lot of American Jews come from like Kabad territory because they came from in that area. Latia is very close to Vinsk is is Latvia today. It's Davil or whatever. And and it was but it was actually historically was part of uh part of Bellarus. So like Yuden were allowed to live there. Ria Ria was more like Ria was like Petberg that Jews were not allowed to live there was outside of the Paleo settlement. Absolutely. Yeah. But either way so but it was very close by, right? And Jews were very involved with that trade. So now they don't have any place they have nothing to trade. So the Latafians saw themselves and dreamed of being like a bridge between the east and the west. So after the revolution the the the Russians didn't have meaning they didn't have diplomatic relations with a lot of people including the United States. There was no diplomatic relations with the United States until the 30s. Mhm. >> So the the the the the United American um embassy in Ria represented Soviet, meaning their interest in the Soviet Union because there wasn't one in Moscow. >> Interesting. >> During this time, >> so they were like a they were friendly with Russia. I'm saying it was >> whatever. It's like being friendly with the bear that wants to eat you. But like Yeah. >> But meaning they're right there. They have no they they they they >> So they they they So why do the Russians want it? That's that's that's the question and the the very basic fact is they don't really care. Yeah, they needed they didn't they have limited trade in other places but what they really want is to sew discord between the three Baltic states right to get them to be fighting with each other. So and and and it that worked by the way this trade deal ended up going through and Estonia never forgave the Latvians and like it caused discourse. They're all three kind of in the same boat. They're are different people, but they're very similar to each other. And they all hate the Soviet Union. They all hate the Russians. And and and like as a group, obviously, you're always more powerful. So, they were fighting over like, "How dare you make a deal with our our mutual enemy, right?" But the Latians needed this deal. They wanted this deal. Anyway, but that's really the Soviet Union's goal. >> Interesting. >> Okay. >> Then then, okay, let's just go through the the through the on May 12th, the British raided the Soviet trade delegation in London. to the meeting in London. >> So the the there's the embassy. You can't raid an embassy because it's a diplomatic uh immunity. So they had a trade delegation which is might have been the next door building or it was in a different place, whatever. They raided it over 3 days. They're saying that they're spies that they're obviously obviously they're engaged in in in espionage. That's that's like a basic fact. But they raided them. This is remember so the trade deal with this with with with the with Latia had already had already talks had already started at this point and the Latin trade deal by the way in Latia was very very um controversial >> because you don't have people are afraid so some people want it because they want they want they want trade they want material whatever they they they want the money a lot of Eden were for it because they were merchants and they they they want to do it and uh but a lot of people were against it because they're paranoid. >> But then so these these are the negotiations that are happening. This is >> these are the negotiations. So then the British raid the embassy I'm sorry the trade delegation and then May 27th. Yeah. 15 days later they cut off >> they cut off relations diplomatic relations with the with the Soviet Union. >> Britain. >> Yeah. And it was I believe the largest trading partner of the Soviet Union at that time. >> Okay. >> This is a very very big blow. is a very big blow. Now, it's not there is there is the Russians always talk about about about how there's people who are planning revolutions and whatever, meaning fighting against them, but it's not like completely untrue that there was nobody out there who didn't want, you know, the the the the the communists out of there. So, June 7th, right? This is 10 days 10 days after after after the Britain um um cuts off trade regulations um diplomatic relations including trade obviously >> with Russia. >> Uh yeah on June 7th there was an explosion in L in in Lenenrad in a I think in a party club somewhere. It was a bomb that was planted and I think a few people were killed even. But it was like a white a white right anti-communist cell that had had planted a bomb there. The same day and this the mentions on a number of occasions the Russian ambassador to Poland Per Voy was assassinated on the train platform in Warsa. He was there with in the article that I wrote that I took to there's a freeze frame because there's a short video that I found of him and Chicherin who was a who was the I think he was the foreign minister at the time uh the quotasar um talking right you know on the platform and a few minutes before Voy was was assassinated >> right >> VOC was there to see off the embassy the the the all the embassy personnel trade personnel and embassy personnel from London who have been kicked out from London. So he's there because those people were expelled right now that there's no diplomatic relations. We're we're we're done. You got to go home. So those people are traveling through Warsa on the way back to on the way back to England on the way back to the Soviet Union. So he's there to see them off and he was assassinated. This is like like now right you so you traded you cut off trade relations. So Stalin literally wrote wrote it down. Stalin wrote I feel the hand of England >> in Voyov's assassination. Right. And then the gapu is warning that war is coming like war is coming right now >> between Britain and Russia >> that Britain is going to take France who's going to bring in Romania. I can't remember all the all the all the the the the organization of countries and they're going to bring Latia in also of course because they're going to use Latia as a as a as a as a base to to launch their war into us. They have to. I mean they're this is a concept called capitalist encirclement. Like I I mentioned that they're paranoid. They're talking about capitalist encirclement. This is the rule. >> So Stalin thinks that he's about to be invaded by all these countries. >> Whatever. I mean, for sure they're coming. They're coming in to crush the revolution. That's what he sees going on all around him. Again, it's not him. It's the whole system sees it this way. They see everything matches together. That's not what what was happening, right? What was happening was random events. A terrorist killed Watson's whatever there various Britain and France had no plans on invading the the the Soviet Union. That that that's for sure. But they see it this way and they see it this way very very you know this is this is >> that's total fantasy or paranoia. >> It's fant. Yeah for sure. I mean in the same way that that that Marxist economics is is a fantasy also, right? Supply and demand are are things that are real, right? I make some I need something, you make it, I buy it, and that's good, right? That's a a market economy. It's fantasy to say that Marxist economics is like uh I had a great great uncle or something who who wrote Marxist economic um um textbooks which is not real like whatever you can write whatever you want in it didn't it didn't it didn't he didn't have a high pressure job you write anything you want because it doesn't actually there is no Marxist economy so the same thing over here this isn't true that's not how people that's not how countries were for sure there there were >> the Soviet Union had enemies throughout the time but like what they're seeing in all these events is is just plain out not not not true. But either way, they see it. So now they're upping they're upping the the pressure in in in in the capitals, meaning in in in Moscow, in Lenenrad, which is not the capital. The capital was moved back to Moscow, but uh was the the pressure is growing in terms of what's happening. So, so you're saying you're saying that so the government or Stalin his answer to this perceived threat is to hunker down and force the communist policies in Russia. That that's what he's doing. >> No. Well, now now they're they're fullon under attack. >> Yeah. But that's what that's what they feel. So what they they they it's not right now it's it's we need to go after >> all of our enemies because we have enemies within. >> Ah so all the counter >> meaning we're helping the the people abroad of obviously got it. >> So June 7th they start June 7th that same day and then June 8th they start putting in new new rules new laws. They reintroduce the ta. The tka is three um like a it's not a real court right? It's like three members like a like a thund you know like whatever yeah three people and and and we shoot you right so they reintroduced that they hadn't everything works with everything works with law they had it in the beginning of the revolution everything works with laws there right you can't make decisions on your own so everything look it's a whatever it's a laws based country in some insane way you can't make decisions everything needs to be documented it's like overall it's it's a bureaucracy that you never paperwork and paperwork paper so people don't But so this is coming down from on top and you were changing all sorts of laws therap was arrested the same day he was charged under a law under a new law that was added I think it was article 58 I think 14 they added to the Russian penal code like the criminal code that day June 7th when when Voyov was was arrested. So they introduced all these emergency measures. In emergency measures, you start shooting people left and right. So So now we have the mechanism to shoot people. You have a troa, right? You have ah come together, you're guilty, shoot them in the shoot them in the in in in the back, which the fre describes the the sounds of shooting that night. >> It's >> Yeah. >> In the jail. >> And then that then a week later was it it was June 15th, right? which was um Tesban >> the Frig was arrested exactly as part of this wave. >> You're missing one point that the Aexia >> was all of a sudden given power that they had not previously had. Right? Is that that's that's important part of it. >> The the the KGB was given power that they previously hadn't had. >> They're not the sexi themselves. I don't remember. Did I write that? >> No, I think I know that. I don't know. >> Yeah, I don't remember if the sex itself had got more power. The K the KGB the GAU definitely got got crazy powers at that point. >> Who arrested the was the >> and the sexier guys were just accompanied them and >> I don't know where they worked honestly and I think they were probably but like you sexier members. You have to be a party member also. >> You have to be a party member. >> So they're cracking down overall. So many people were arrested that night. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Describe you can there lots and lots of people. But like we said, why the Fredo? Why there? Cuz he had I I brought it down newspapers, but you obviously know on your own that the F is having a big impact in in Lenigrad already. meaning just in length just in the the newspapers had already been rael rousing about his presence in length that it's not just who are who are coming to him that it's it's workers it's people it's you know it's general it's general again it's not so black and white there who's a worker and who's a whatever that's that's like over here we become everything becomes black and white but but still he was having a very visible impact in length and and they know what's going on abroad >> that is meaning throughout the country 100% % 100%. And also, and this is this is where this is where why they going after it's not just because they're from why they're going after the everybody associated with the I think that's the better way to put it. It's because it's an organization and again the same it speaks to the same paranoia that we're talking about. It fits their wildest their wildest dreams that there is an organization of people that is out to get us that is fighting against the revolution. They don't educate. I saw this in a KGB document. Yeah. They don't educate their kids in our in our in our schools. >> The campaigned against that. >> So but but there so they they write I saw a document from later from like the from the 40s. There was the Balshamto Israel Israel Balshamski I don't know Magichki for sure they right Maguchiski and then there was Zman right whatever anyway and then they and then the Tadic today is in New York his name is is is is uh and he's he left behind he has followers over here who follow his orders and they don't educate their kids in they don't put their kids in in school. They have their own they have their own schools and uh this is this is like the the that's the way they look at it. So and and it's counterrevolutionary. I mean they're they're they're they're fighting against revolution by this very act because if you don't put your kids in the school that means that you're against our schooling system which means that you really want to fight against the entire thing. You want to you want to crush the revolution. So as a group are perfect for this type of thing because they're looking for not an individual. They're always even individuals, they're always trying to tie with a group because if it's a group, it's a conspiracy. Conspiracies are are fit fit their their worldview much better than than just an individual crackpot or an individual whatever. That's not so interesting. You're part of a group. And there was there was a separate charge in the Russian criminal code. There's article 5810 and there's article 5811. Article 5811 is about being part of a group and that was much more dangerous. Meaning during certain times got charged article 5810 and 11. But if you're charged with 11 automatic that sentence during that time when they were just shooting left and right. Okay. >> 11 is what >> was part of a conspiracy? a group conspiracy that you're part of a group. Yeah. >> That that that's an automatic that was later. That's 10 years later. Like everything built up. That's that the the tufas change. There's periods that change. It built up. So during this time, we're talking really at the at the consolidation of Stalin's power, right? Stalin when he arrests when the freed is being arrested, Stalin's not like he's he's basically in full control, but it's not the same Stalin as 10 years later. people who had been his his opponents were still around. He he controlled things politically but but Trosky Zunov came of these guys who he got rid of later on meaning he got rid of put a bullet through their heads they're they're still part of they're losing but like he's consolidating power right now and that's when all of this is happening. So obviously so the emergency situation all of these things are part of his his own consolidation of of of of power again it's not a personal thing >> right >> it's it's for the people that you need meaning we we need this this needs to happen >> the charge of the fika was uh this 11 also >> no >> the documentation >> I think we have I don't think we have the the the the >> indictment >> the the the actual charges of uh I don't think we have it >> okay Um, but the freed was arrested. Then there was people being shot literally that night, June 14th, you know, overnight. I I think I I I I uh June 14th and 15th, whatever. That that was that that was uh that's what I what what I remember seeing like people being shot specifically during that and it continued that like extra emergency. >> Not that I remember. I meaning uh what do you mean? Uh Kanye was arrested then or he was already in jail? >> No, you said 10 years later. No, he was arrested twice. He sat for three years then. >> Okay. >> And was arrested and and there were there more people I remember now. >> I think in our sources it says that there were nonJews that were killed >> for sure. For sure that same night. >> Yeah. >> They were shooting people at a at a at a at a at a like a hectic rate at that time, which again later on that became more normal. At this time, it's still not so normal just shooting people left and right. >> Right. >> So that that was that was that was uh okay fine. So now the 50 cup is arrested and then how how how it how it how it how it plays out. They right away they made a they made a they made committees one in Moscow and one in Lenagrad about what to do about this. First of all, they were like um the Rebe was like hiding the uh documents then that night. That was a whole operation. >> I think in in general in general this is a famous thing but but but I I think it's very very clear that the Reba's role in this is under meaning is under understood right it's not it's there there's much more there and we we we don't know it. There's that story with Zam Dman that Zamadman said got up and said it's now time that everybody uh that everybody knows what uh what the Reba did and started like yeah and then and then he never spoke about it again. Um, but I think that's very very that's very very clear because there was a lot there was a lot of there was a lot of steps that they did that were very very um I think they're very smart moves and and and who did those who did those? I don't I don't know. >> Well, there's also things that like they prepared also like that documents on the FIB's desk. They put mundane documents in between the incriminating ones so that they'll have a hard time searching. There are certain things that they did that they prepared for this also. That's that's I mean whatever I I I I don't I I don't remember the that detail but but um the the the bottom line is that they don't need like whatever they don't need excuses really the the the the Soviets right >> that's the other thing it's like we we never >> we never actually tricked them >> whenever whenever you hear the stories about how Lav everyone escaped was a brilliant was a brilliant operation. You might have tricked uh a guard on the on the low on the low, you know, on the lower echelon. Somebody knows though. This is a country where there's millions of people whose job is to know everything that you're doing at all times. They don't miss they don't miss this. And the Reb says this vish I think in the early mess the speaking about escaping they know it happened but like somebody there somewhere up the chain not too high up does know right. So, so they they don't need excuses to go after somebody. They don't need whatever like they they they they it's part of their they'll give uh there's a famous thing three felonies a day that that that in the Soviet Union you can't go there's so many laws on the books you can't go through the day without committing three felonies, right? >> So then we always have something to to to to get you by. >> So they made these two committees, one in Lenagard, one in one one in Moscow. Rashag went to report to Moscow what had been discussed over there very early on somebody connected with this Mad Madame Peshkova Peshkova who had been Maxim Gorki's wife she was Maxim Gor Gorki was a famous Russian writer who supported the revolution came back to meaning came back to Russia from living living abroad and um and uh was a very very big figure until till till till uh and she was his ex-wife She headed this thing called the political red cross in Russia and they didn't tr Yeah. And they didn't trust they didn't touch her. >> I don't know why they never >> What does that mean? What's political red cross? Like >> it fights for political prisoners? >> And they let her be. >> Yeah. She she and she she was around and she had this extraordinary power for some reason. Um and meaning extraordinary power, extraordinary influence and and without being touched, meaning like they didn't touch her. although they you know her family wasn't untouched but she she lived until uh 40s maybe um and she uh and so she got involved very early on and it's very clear that the death sentence that was that was in the beginning uh that the Freda had seen that that is so that that was that was her efforts. So she thwarted >> yeah the death sentence and then again um changing >> the because the next sentence after that was 10 years to >> Salvi >> and that was quickly uh >> the three years in Kas and then that was already yeah to the three years in Kasma which I think three Kasma is not so it's not so far away it's like seven hours away from us kind of thing I mean it's relatively close >> it's not like in >> there were Jews there also so this >> yeah Yeah. So, so that's what happened. Now, the news in the west and this is very interesting that they didn't they didn't in in on the on in they made the decision very early on. I mean, there's three ways there's three steps towards this thing, right? First is to get involved get in contact with with the KGB with the local GAU with the local KGB. Not go to Moscow over their heads. deal with the small with the small powers right here who are actually the ones who did it. Number two is go over their heads to Moscow and go to a higher leadership. Number three is to go abroad, right? and and spread the word around >> make it an international and they made the decision early on and I'm saying they I I mean I don't know there's there's who exactly was involved is is very very clearly clearly the reb was was was was involved over here and I can tell you exactly I can't tell you exactly exactly what um so then so they they did the first they did they did the first one but very very quickly they already heard Right. They heard the the the the rumor that that the death sentence is on. So then they sent a they sent somebody on Chabas. I think they sent on Friday night they sent somebody to Moscow to say we have to move up. He got there's morning. >> It's Mashma from um from the Shimer. >> Yeah. >> The has a whole thing that he went to the wrong door. The whole >> they were shooting people that that night, right? >> Yeah. It's almost it sounds like they they wanted to do it that night and he was arrested. Yeah, it's very it's very very possible. But they still didn't meaning even after that they didn't like apparently they didn't forget about it because they were still within the next few days this was still something that was on the books. >> So >> so they eliminated the first uh of going to the local. Okay. >> Right. That was already out. Then they went then they went over there about getting international support. And this is to to me it seems that and I I didn't realize this until I don't know a few years ago when when I was looking into the details in the west they did not know about it until very very late. Meaning outside of the Soviet Union people did not know about the Fred the Fried's arrest until the Fred was rested on June 15th. Yeah. on on the first reports the first major report is June 28th which is >> Mhm. That's the first major report. That's the JTA and that's what went around the world. The GTA was based in in in I GTA was based in Ria and they had meaning they had a office in Ria and I think they made might have had somebody in in Lenard also I don't remember if he was there either way whatever they they the first major report it could be a day or two I think I just recently saw in in in a newspaper like like a Polish newspaper of some kind maybe two a day or two earlier than that but basically the the the the death sentence, all that stuff was they didn't know about it in the west for for for two weeks basically. So um um you saw Jacobson there's a letter he saw Jacobson writing to somebody else in America. It's after that point he's writing about the news of the Freda's arrest that's whatever or or a day later two days later like that he saw I think he references in particular the JTA report. >> So they didn't know about it. So that means that other people who were very very influential and helped and that we know about for example Marubin in in in Ria and and and um and uh people in Germany but the Kramer brothers sending money from America all of that didn't start for the first 10 days two weeks really um nobody knew about >> so they went to the what happened when they went to the KGB the you know the higher ups in the KGB what did that do >> that >> that already meaning they they They they they that's already bringing in Madame Peshkova who gets involved with them and then that that stops those things but it was not going to happen on the local level in Leningrad. It wasn't going to happen on the local level in Lenrad and then later on the local level had was still upset >> right but that's they thwarted the death sentence to Madame Madame Peshkova right >> going to um to the higher ups in the KGB. That's that that was that what they did there. >> Right. Right. I mean to the higherups. The higher-ups. Yeah. Very very the the very much the the very higherups. >> Okay. But but the fid is still whatever imprisoned or going to be going to Galos. >> So then he went to Galos, right? But you see like I think I quoted um Raf Cook's telegram to the JT to the to the joint in America saying like you need to do something. >> What does he say? >> He says uh Rabbi you know whatever very you know he was a he was a he was a a friend. Uh needs deliberation I think wire results whatever emergency the date of that is like June 29th and then you see in the joint archives you see all the there's lots of telegrams there's trolls all these whatever from all over from all over uh from all over the United States they're all uh they write there's a lot of them have them the the right rabbi arrested held Petra Pavlska fortress or Peter and Paul that's where the alterba had been had had been held stomped. They they a lot of them, right? They're like mixing in already right away. >> All the trauma. >> Okay. Yeah. So, um yeah. So, they they they those those anyway that's already when basically so Giml was the freed left. That's July 3rd. The dates I think for over those two months are exactly English and and and and uh and uh and Jewish are exactly aligned. So Gimot was I think is July 3rd and that's when that's when the freed >> went to went to went to went to Karma. >> So that's in the whole >> that already the whole world knows about this already and is going crazy about it and and and there's a lot of mixed information like there there was there was I think July 1 there was there was um the JTA has a report that there was false rumor that he had been released and then they then and everyone started celebrating and then afterwards they realized that it wasn't true. In the book, we have a picture. I think it was also in your article that he's still in jail. It's not it's not >> right. Right. Probably probably reporting. I don't know what the date you remember the date of that. >> But uh >> whatever. Yeah. So that that that's there was all this confusion, but that's when everybody gets involved. Okay. So now now just to move along to to to the trade deal because that's really meaning the outside. >> So you're going to talk about So now you're going to talk about and the trade deal. Yeah. >> What about the American? Does that do anything? Wasn't Justice Brandise involved in the the American I I think practically the American help was mostly money. I think I think by the time and there was probably you have to remember that really all of these efforts were not really it was too late in the game to get him out of prison. He was already out of prison by the time they found out. Right. If June 20 is when they when he when when they the news gets out in in the west that he was arrested and and he gim he's already on on on a train to to to to Krama. It's not a lot of days over there, right? Then 10 days. So they start doing things but he's already he's already halfway he's already halfway out. I mean a lot a lot of things happened. So I think the the most of the most of the efforts really that all came together during that time was really the most was to bring the fra out of out of the Soviet Union >> in in in in in the probably to out of out of out of Castra also it already helped that there was this American pressure um Bora right Bora Bor William Bora was the senator from from from Idaho who it's very interesting was was was was influential. I think the Kramers got Bora involved and Bora Bora was a very early lead proponent of of the United States forming diplomatic relations with with the Soviet Union, >> right? >> And and later on you see his name comes up frequently and like they knew who he was in in in the Soviet Union. They they know who Bora is because he was the head of the Senate Foreign Relations. >> Their plan was get the 50 club out of Russia. That that's what they were thinking. I mean whatever they they want to get him to safety and over the summer it became clear that that that's really meaning the only option. I think the freed didn't didn't want that >> after the freed >> after he was freed. >> Yeah. So the freed was freed and then the freight he went six weeks he was in Malahka which is a small town near near near Moscow and um >> I think he said when he left that I didn't really leave >> even later. Yeah he said yeah for sure 100%. One of the integral components of being aim and whether it's orimot these days give us an opportunity to connect with ourim to connect with each other and be better. What is the story behind each of these days? How did the rabbi commemorate and celebrate these days? And most importantly, what are the lessons, the takeaways, and the action items needed for each of these days? All of this and much, much more are answered in the new set recently published by our days is a journey through the Kabad calendar in story, meaning, and practice with over 700 beautiful glossy pages with elevated content. Beautiful, beautiful photographs. You, your family and friends will enjoy and live with each. This book is a must for every labamature home, for every schul, for every school. It is a perfect gift item. This will not collect dust. It will be used day after day, month after month, year after year. You can have the set. Go to.org/ourdays order your set today and start living with. So in your so the way you understand it the actual release the most effective part of release was this u this we're going to get to now the Latvian we're going back to where we started with the trade deal with Latvia. >> Yeah. So the trade deal with with with Latia, every one of these pieces are obviously very very important. meaning all the efforts that were made by the by the by the committees by by um getting to to Peshka in order to be able to do that whatever pressure that came in even when the freed was was was in Karma those those those are meaning what there's there's letters and telegrams and things did start happening right away then 100%. So Peshkova's work was very very important. The telegrams meaning the pressure that came from America that came from Germany that came from other places already just of deep concern coming from abroad >> to build up. >> Yeah. So th those are all very very important things and and and and obviously played a part in in inbased tamas which is which is the freed being allowed out. The >> communists care about pressure from the outside. That that's something that bothers them. Um sometimes meaning in this situation >> they were not expecting a world >> in this situation they were in this situation where they're >> they don't it's it's a difficult financial situation at that time for for them remember the joint right the the the the the Jewish uh distribution yeah the the joint distribution committee right the what the American Jewish joint distribution committee sank millions of dollars into the Soviet Union at that time. Meaning that the equivalent of like $200 million of today, they sank into the Soviet Union, which doesn't have a lot of money. Meaning the the the the the cut off all debts with the Soviet Union had announced when they took power that they're they're cutting off all their obligations to whatever the Zars obligations were to other countries. They're done and passed. That means everyone didn't everyone cut off their obligations back to the Soviet Union. whatever it was meaning they're come they're they're starting from a place of of a lot of countries cut off relations with this revolutionary state that they're actually afraid of the United States had had diplomatic relations with with the Russian Empire right they don't have with the with the Soviet Union so yeah for sure there's a lot more elements of of of of um you know the ability to influence what's going on within the Soviet Union at that time so I I think in datton when you're Looking at this whole story, this is 1927 and not 1937. So whatever happened in 1937, 1938, right, which is when was arrested when people were arrested and shot them were being shot like very very quickly quickly whatever there there was many people >> at that time. It's it's a it's a it's a totally different story. they they they they don't care and they're doing what they want and and meaning again obviously basis has happened at at at its time in in history for a reason. But if you would want if you'd say like if this whole story had happened in in in in 10 years later outside pressure would not have meant the same thing even even even remotely. It wouldn't have meant anything at all. They they were doing this on a much grander scale on a on a big scale. They were they were they they they had no comp. at this time there's still there there's there's there's things that matter to them. Yeah, for sure. So if it's financial, it's also just just getting it meaning they they're they're figuring out how to be a a country in the world. Um so that summer the freed is is released and he's there. Marubin Marubin was born in 1889 in tough re in in um in Ria. His parents are his father was was was his parents were nobody's really from Ria aren't really from from Ria. They're from like we said before they're from white Russia and they came up at some point in time like like uh 40% of the Jews living outside of the pale of settlement. Pale settlement is where the Jews were allowed to live under the Russian Empire from like the second partition of Poland whatever like in the late 1700s to to to the end of the of Thesar's empire meaning till 1917 Jews were allowed to live over here not allowed to live over here and then there's some certain cities within even the pale settlement like Kiev where Jews were invited not allowed to live unless you had a special permit so Peterberg right Jews weren't allowed to live there except if you had a special permit which meant that you did a certain amount of business whatever there were there were things there were obviously Jews who lived there illegally and would have to leave and have to come back. Whatever those those types of things, Ria was outside of the pale of settlement, but they they they contributed greatly to trade like we mentioned Chia Berlin. they were very you know as merchants with the and and therefore they s looked the other way the the the central the the Russian government and also they they they meaning they gave them permission and at some point of time it was basically like 40% of Jews living outside of the pale settlement lived in in Ria itself >> so Dubin's parents came there around 10 years before his he was born his par his father's from chash chashniki chashnik was like a Um um there's stories associated with it whatever and um so he was from there he was like a the describes him as like like a very very this is father and u >> so so that that that made him different than most mostid let's say most an in rig is a very modern So, so the people who were there even if you went to the that didn't actually mean it didn't mean that you were fully committed to the whole thing like your kids had upbringing him and his brothers for sure they didn't have they didn't go to they didn't go to they didn't go to it wasn't as in like Soviet schools right it was but they didn't go to gymnasiums and have a secular education they didn't have a secular education till he was 16 years old >> did he go to the he went to the ra >> he went with his father meaning he would go he would go to yeah to the um to he would go together with his father meaning his father would go however many times a year remember it's the Russian empire it's all one one one country also um so they would go and he dubin was was wealthy became involved with with with basically as very very early in his uh in his life so already during world war one, I think even before World War I, right near right near Ria, right near Ria is is is uh the beach the the seaside the the Baltic Sea and and Yidden used to go there from all over. So wealthy people used to go there from all over the Russian Empire and it was like a Jewish there was a Jewish vacation area over there. Yeah. basically and I think there was like a gaisha part of the of the strip and there was like a Jewish part of the of the strip and uh a lot of Eden were sent there by their doctors also. So Maraduben would would from like a young age would fund raise money to help the Raon and whatever who had been sent there. They're they're prescribed to go to the beach, right? To to to go sit there by the water for the air and whatever. And so but they didn't they don't necessarily have the money for it. So he would collect money. So that was like his first escandis and he didn't really have to work because he was involved with his father's business but whatever it was a big business and he was he was involved with already from from from that time but really from his 20s he was he was already like like a new a newly married man and and he he um during World War I he a lot of Jewish leaders left Latia when when during World War I Latia was sent back back and forth between between between between this side and that side. And then the Germans, you know, it's f the Germans lost World War I obviously, but they lost on the on the on the eastern front. They won on the western front. So they won on the western front. That means that the Germans established power in in Latvia and and along along the along their their western border. Then they lost uh you know a little later they lost on the eastern front and then everything collapsed, right? And then it was like a like a like a you know a a land grab. >> But they won over there. >> And then then when when that collapsed on the on the eastern on the Am I getting my directions right? No, eastern front. I'm sorry. They they lost in the western front and they won on the eastern front. Sorry. So the eastern on the eastern front they uh they on the eastern front they they won the they they won the war and then everything devolved into the bolevixs came in and then the meaning because now the bolevixs had signed the bolevixs signed a treaty the treaty of breast detovsk and there they said we are we seed everything to the German empire right whatever was won we we we we we're not part of we're not part to this war, right? So, whatever you guys won, whatever. We're we don't represent the the the Russian the the Russian Empire, right? We're the Soviet Union. It's a new entity. So, we're done. Okay. Then the then the Germans lost. Then they started coming coming in cuz now that treaty doesn't actually exist anymore, right? So, they came into Latia and Latia was very very bloody. There was a whole back and forth and you know of of different different regimes that were in control. was a very very dangerous time and the the the leadership had escaped. A lot of people were were were were were gone and stood up and represented the yen to the extent that when this cleared up in 19 around 1919 when this cleared up and there's a lot of dangerous story a lot of mus like like actual mirafish when this cleared up he um he was chosen to be on the first national assembly of the newly independent Latvia. Okay. There had never basically never been a country called Latvia before. But there's a distinct Latvian people. These are our boundaries. These are our our borders. >> Did he speak Russian or they spoke Lat? No, they speak Latian. >> Latian. Okay. >> I mean they speak Russian because of because they were they were >> they had their own language. Okay. >> What? >> They had their own language though. Yeah. >> Yeah. For sure. They were they were a separate people. They spoke Russian because they were dominated by Russia for for 200 years before that and then and then later on as well. But um so he represented the so he was chosen to be on this on this assembly. Then they made an elected assembly and he was he was voted on to represent among amongst the Jewish representatives who are on it and he at this time he's like 30 years old and and and uh and from there when they established already a proper parliament called the SEMA. So he was voted on. He represented audis. He he he during the week he didn't because he had he had he had he had he had work he had work to do. He had he had on a regular basis he had 150 people waiting for him in his office. You see eyewitness reports of people who were there and describing how there's and people here at line. >> Wasn't he also running the education? >> No. No. No no no he was he represented ages he was one of the leaders of a as a political party he's also a of latia >> and they were part of the government part of the parliament >> and they were and he had a political party meaning they has has he was also the rashal a different there's the the kahila he used the rashakal of the kahila he's a is like a like a social services and whatever organization like and they have a political party and he heads the political party in Poland they had it they had it too >> they had it also but in Ria everything's very different Latia everything's very different because in those places they have a a a a there's a there's a kared constituency in those places >> Poland >> in Poland in Leita right they they have kared didn't have it's a modern place it doesn't have a deep Jewish history right because it was outside the pale of settlement so it's not like you are living here for 500 years this is very very little that had been developed like the physic talks about Latia like what's your excuse for for not being an active place look but like the fact is that it had it Jewish life had developed very very late comparatively to everywhere else and the people who were there obviously were not looking for for for for whatever it didn't have basically it had a few of them but it wasn't not was regularly was regularly the most popular political party. I mean, he got a plurality of the of the of the of the Jewish of the Jewish votes because people wanted they they loved who helped them. He helped everybody and he helped people who hadn't voted for him also in particular again like the speaks about about >> you know politics and how it works and how each political party is there to serve only its constituency. well themselves their constituents the people who vote for them >> for somebody that works for for for that doesn't work because we don't have we're here for everybody you see that within in in Latia you see the approach of a of a he's he's a political he's leading a political party he ran campaigns and he said vote for me because they didn't help you and I help you but he helped them and he helped everybody and he helped people who did not vote for him in particular and this was known and this was even his biggest political opponents were always and and for the rest of history always always always always um begrudgingly uh uh um um acknowledge the that's the fact they didn't like the tactic of it because what do you mean you're getting favors and really according to democracy which is what we're trying to help build then these are our rights and you're getting them as favors so you're trading things whatever that that's a that's a different different conversation but He he helped everybody all along. Um yed. So it's Eden locally in in in in Ria. It's Ed Yeden who are coming in from you know in the early 20s there was like the border wasn't still sealed in the same way between the Soviet Union and Latia. So people were able to escape and move on to go to America or whatever until 1924 until until the the the um the United States put up a quotas then. and then and then um anyway a very very very active person obviously and that's where 1927 comes along. You said about about education what happened with education was that the the the parliament in Latvia was around for 12 years. Okay. Until 1934. In 1934, there was a coup, bloodless coup in Latia, and Umanis, who was the head of like this right-wing um nationalist Latafian peasant peasant farmers party, he took control and became the dictator of Latia. And he there's no there was no parliament after that. Audrell changed its name to Mak, right? Right. Because Israel had to close down because it was a political party. So it changed its name to Mah Israel just in terms of that's where the name comes from. I'm sure of it. Yeah. >> And and there was America's there. Whatever. Just a lot of the things you see you see. >> Yeah. Yeah. That published the paperwork. A lot of a lot of things that you see that were established in America had already were were already being formed were already formed in in in Latv during that time. Interesting. So Maradubin after 1934 had had no government position >> right >> but he had a lot of influence and this is already also a lot of people didn't like because meaning his opponents left-wing Jews uh got very nervous about the fact that he had he had a good relationship with with um and said okay you you're you're you represent the Jews. He wasn't even elected, right? >> No, no, he wasn't elected. He put he put as the head of the Jewish desk at the ministry of education. So the person who was in charge of Jewish education in Latvia in the Latian foreign in the Latian ministry of education was Khadakov under >> and you have a similar history that he's really from Russia, >> right? Yeah, he's from He's from those Jews who come from the German. He went through educational he went through like Yeah. But like >> he's a lab from Russia. >> Yeah. Yeah. He's he's a Russian Jew. He was not he's not he's not German. >> Yeah. >> But they they had a lot of that influence even in the >> mistas in in in uh >> in En in Ria. It was it was had a lot of like that German that German influence because there there were German Jews also. So German Jews and Russian Jews and anyway that what what what worked there or at least what was what was done there wasn't like the regular or whatever whatever was going on in Russia at least it was like more like a like even though from a school >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um the name of the school is um so the the soubin was now in a position of power in 1927. He's in parliament. There were two members. He has auda which is associated with but he's a labra like he's not taking his his his directions from anywhere else at all ever. And he represented in meaning the Fredab is >> wishes and and and and and yeah and and and and in in in later in uh before and after in general ag conferences he was very very involved with the like he was he was he was very involved >> especially the fab moves to Ria so yeah >> for sure but even even before that there there there's there's um yes so >> so he was like the fab represent the Israel also. >> Yeah. Like like unofficially officially. >> Yes. 100%. >> So and he was very influential. He become very very a big personality. He would sit in schul. He would dav very early in in in schul in in in one of the one of the in in Ria. He would dav early in the morning. He would stay to learn a parakishna with a group and then he would go and by the time meaning when he's already at the end of learning there's there were people already waiting for him by the sh right waiting for his help. >> Mhm. >> And then he would walk home and those people are walking with him and by his house there was more people waiting already. He would stop by his house he would go to the office and basically the crowd around him would continue would continue growing. Right. >> And we mentioned the the Ria seaside, right? He would go there also. He went, you know, he's a he used to he went to the daca also. So in the summer from from I saw a newspaper that he was already he was already there. They mentioned him as a member as a as a mpbal in one of the over there in in the in Buluri or whatever like in in that area on the on the beach. And when he would come back to the city which is it's it's close like half an hour or something in the train station people were already waiting for him right there. the same the same thing. And they would follow him and then he would go into ministries and he would had he had he had teams of of secretaries dealing with things and and he had he would always he would emphasize the person who who um who came from from abroad, meaning who came from a town, you know, in the provinces to help them because this person is is in Ria. It's an expense for them every single day that they're in Ria, right? So he would he would prioritize helping them first. But uh he helped a tremendous amount of people and was up meaning working early and until the latest latest hours of the day. So obviously when the fik when this when this comes up then then then the fik is arrested and now Latia I want to see when when I wrote it down when did they they signed the the they signed a trade deal. I think they signed signed the trade deal in June 1927. The Latians and the and the and the Soviets signed signed this trade deal. It had been very very hard to negotiate like we said because the Russians are the Russians and the Latians are paranoid and worried about what they're doing like opening the door to to uh to a uh you know to your mortal enemy. So they they it took a long time but they they they signed it but it still needed to be ratified right they needed the the parliament to vote >> the Latian parliament >> so that's where Dubar already played a very big role the freed rights that he came he traveled three times that over that summer he traveled three times to the Soviet Union which is already like a it's not it's not a simple thing and talking to them on that on that level and uh it was was was complicated and they also we know that the that there was the German side right there was Mayor Hildesheimer in in in the in the in the Leo Beck um Oscar Cohen and these people and Oscar Cohen was really was was sent as a representative of the German Jews um to to to the Soviet Union also as part of this effort to to to to save the fidic and it's very clear that Maradubin and Oscar Cohen were were were were there they presented themselves as being on opposing sides that they were fighting each one was fighting to bring the Fredaba to their place he to Berlin he toa but it's very clear from newspapers at that time like right after the fit was out it's very clear that they had been that they had been um uh >> they were working together that they were working together through through this through this whole time had very deep connections he he he was personally friends I think with Chicheran that I mentioned who had been part of with with Voyov. He he he because he was like from the left. He was a labor he was um socialist pilots and whatever he was he was he had been a member like a social democrat member of the of the of the of the parliament in in >> so what was their interest in helping the fida because >> they're helping the fida the the the hill this summer they they mean they later on they became very involved with the with with the matzah campaign pas they became very very involved very helpful they they they want to help it's not a shock that they didn't want to help history why why him. I I don't know. The truth is it's something it's something. >> He actually wrote about it in the recently. >> Yeah. >> But the pilots and they were fighting the the Bahab. They were trying to get people there's a whole story attack physically, >> right? >> Yeah. I guess it was a different time, different time, a different place. Meaning these are the Russians. These are Germans. Whatever. Look, the the the the thinking the Russian the Russian branches of all these movements were always much more violently anti-religious and violently because it was whatever. I can imagine some of the pale scene maybe became your sex. Yeah, >> for sure. 100%. >> Yeah, >> 100%. >> Um, yeah. So, the the the the so the trade deal was was was was continuing at this time and Maraduben traveled to Russia. >> It needs a vote now, right? It needs it needs the vote. And over that summer, it was it was it was um impressed on the on the Soviets and and Marubin said this very very clearly that I want meaning I want you're asking you're asking something from me. It was the the the the the votes were very meaning who was for what the the the votes aligned in the in the parliament were were very obviously very split. you want this these votes for me and I'm asking you for one thing. I'm asking you for the rabbi. I want I want this rabbi and I want him to come I want him to to you're going to give him you're going to allow him to go to to Berlin to Berlin and we're going to be mortally mortally offended. And uh so this was a big this was a this was a big deal that was happening the entire time. And uh and uh the bottom line is that they wanted this they wanted this this trade deal. And that's back to again they wanted this trade deal because they're they there there's this capitalist encirclement. We have to go back to that whole era of what's going on. So this is an important piece to them to stick it to the west side to to peel Latvian the Latvians away from the west. And and by the way the all these things actually worked a little bit. the British were not happy with with with the Latian trade deal, right? I we already mentioned the the the Baltic states within themselves were not happy. So this whole sewing discord amongst them worked and that's really the main piece of why the the Soviets want and need this is because it fits into the their world view and therefore they are going to sign this trade deal because they're really getting something much bigger than trade than some goods that that from a country the size of West Virginia. They they don't that doesn't matter. The Soviet Union's it's an empire at the end of the day. So, but there's a lot of things and it's Soviet ideology itself that is dictating what's happening. That's what's so interesting is that they see capitalist encirclement and they see trade deal and they see we're going to we're we are going to to to to peel them off and we're going to we're going to go after Latafia in this way because you have to do this meaning there's a lot of work that needs to be done. But they see all of this and it's worth worth it for us to expel this this this this rabbi or to to to release this rabbi in order to make this in order to make this this happen. >> Soviets want it. >> They wanted it. And you see the extent of of of of how high this went just by the people on the second day of Rashashana. There was a meeting of this Chicheran of Litinov of of uh Ratchen a bunch of people the ambassador the the Soviet ambassador to Latvia was there who came in from Ria to go tell them how how important this whole this whole thing was right so that meeting is where they decided that that the freedom go and if I'm not mistaken that that that's when they decided also the the because the the last sticking point was um the family the family his family and the and the and the library >> right the the 10,000 10,000 farm whatever's library they didn't they wanted they wanted to let only the fikba out himself which obviously was not going to work without his family >> and insisted that the >> his family and the library >> and they also let the which wasn't part of the family it should be part of the >> wasn't part of the family and he insisted right that's the famous story yeah like a son-in-law like this you can't find anywhere else >> right >> so yeah 100% um and and and The Reb was like hiding out during that time in in in um I think what's his name Shayash the the chief rabbi of Israel >> was he of Israel of Kyifa was he at some part of the whole Israel I don't remember >> maybe not but yeah okay >> he his family there was somebody who was like the was staying in their house in a in a in a during this period it seems like the laying was laying low there in in Lida or Luda or something something >> no no no did go to and was in in for sure there's a period where was there and I I don't know if convincing is the right word but was making the case to the that that that it's it's going to be more effective to to leave that the that the and again part of the reason Why would it would be more effective for the freed to leave? First of all, the situ the circumstances were to change and very very quickly right after this becomes more exponentially more dangerous you know moving forward um and then and then the other piece is that uh >> in general you weren't allowed to immigrate. >> No, you're not allowed. >> No one's no one's allowed to leave. um meaning you can get whatever there was special permission but um the local KGB in in in Lenrad was out for blood cuz they had been they had done this and they had been overruled and whatever. So they were they were out >> arrest again. >> Yeah that's basically that that that's that that's what was going on. So bottom line is that for the function of of the freed's work in in in in the Soviet Union the option was the option was uh was to go um and he went to Ria and so he came to Ria the Fredba he was escorted then by was there right they left you're jumping ahead so was released over the next summer weeks was in no very few people were allowed to go there Right. There's the I think there's like eyewitness accounts from Falakhan whatever. There's very very few people though were allowed to go there. The Rabbitson was there like and and the was there uh meaning visited there came there but there were very very few people people were ordered not to not to go there. This was specifically to be you know undercover. I think during that time the freed goes went to for the last time. >> You went to the >> Yeah. and um and um yeah and then already tish so tish was the last tish in the in the in the in the Soviet Union. So you remember the second day of rash was when when this decision was was made. Um and then I think they they they they told people in leng meaning they said that people shouldn't shouldn't come in to for for but I think people did and continue like more and more they >> I think a lot of made to come >> right >> for some toba because they the word got out that was leaving Russia shortly afterwards and that was the last opportunity >> right there Reba was by his parents and and >> because the reba was also leaving Russia >> he left later though the left like a week or two later >> in the same period but then I think that was the last time the was spending time with his parents >> yeah yeah yeah 100% >> until so the the so then then he came he left the kaba and the family everything there's a whole right they there was a lot of people on the train the wrote a a letter on the train to to the left behind in Russia >> it's a lot of stories there's a story there there's there's and And they went and they went until um they got off. I think they got off like before meaning in in Russia. A group of them at least got off before the train continued on and the family whatever everybody was there until they they came to there was a big uh there was a big um celebration. I think it was Friday morning. I think it was that the came is and uh arrived >> the day after he left. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right away. and uh he arrived in Ria and the vote to ratify the Latin trade deal took place a week later or 5 days later even 4 days later something like that there's a midnight vote which if you look at the votes the votes were 52 to 45 with a few abstensions but so the marun's two votes >> broke the votes >> meaning yeah the the you see it was 52 that passed it >> it needed it needed >> and the newspapers at time in Latia they they they make reference to this frequently that saying we're running a crazy oh yeah they had kindness about about how the the political system in in Latia that little political parties have so much control it's like one of these places and later on they used this as an excuse like the the dictator used this as not this case in particular but like the kind of the broken that it was very hard done because all these little parties >> parliamentary systems that's how it works >> yeah but then some yeah so so Um, so they said like he was against the trade deal and then he gets now he's for it. So, I don't know what he was portraying to the to the to the I mean, that tells you that he was he was now we're looking at it and he was, you know, he had this plan the entire time, but it it appears that he publicly in Latvia for weeks or for months even was portraying himself as an opponent to the deal because I saw already two different news news articles referencing this this bit and they're like, "This is ridiculous." Okay, very good. We're happy that the one of them goes like we're happy that the Lamreb is here and free but like you can't run a country like this like because he got the lab so now we're going to change our whole you know make this massive ma massive um um change which is like almost reproachment with the with the Soviet Union right like like these are they they they they're and and their paranoia wasn't wasn't false right they they the Russians the Russian Russians marched in within 12 13 years of of of this >> took over Ria >> took over the entire Latia Yeah, all the Baltics, but they they they took over. So, it's not like they were they were saying something crazy. Not that the trade deal changed anything, but that's uh that's that's the that you know, their fears were warranted. >> And sadly, the Russians got to >> So, yeah. So, that was that was that was that was later. That was later. Okay. So, the Freda came to to Ria. He was in in in in in Ria during this time. the trade deal passed. So anyway, just to to finish off on this on this on this piece now, you look at the where the Reb is saying that it's the of of of of what you see Gimlas Gimas in particular. receive all these and and the the the the entire miracle is happening within the world of communism in a real in a in a in a in a in a very very real way. It's the law. It's it's by their own logic that it takes place. there uses even a lush like that that that the that the agrees to to to what that's what you see and I think that's that's that's the most amazing thing that you're you're able to pull out when you when you look at it in in uh in the broader context when you read up you see it coming through in a in a very real way. I want to add one one one one thing that in general it's like we we learned about these stories about the Soviet about Mr. snafish in in in Russia in the Soviet Union what did so at first it's um it's like a camp play right that's what you're told you're told here's here's the good guys here the bad guys they were arrested why they arrested because they were of the of the of the and they knew no okay this is the way the way it is we have camps like this but it's like rah so then you get a little older and you go wait a second no and there's like the you a cynical line of of um of um they were they were they were um specul speculation, right? What do they get arrested for? Speculation do with the different then you're like oh so >> what does that mean speculation? >> Speculation like some kind of economic crimes whatever that obviously everyone is involved with economic crimes. If you're making a living for your family you're you're but like ku that that's the reason why we're were gone after were we're were hunted down in the Soviet Union. So then you look at that, you're like a little older and you're a little more mature and you're like, "Oh, so it wasn't such a big deal." Meaning whatever, okay, it's nice, but it's not such a big deal. Then I think what I find is that you go a little bit further, you're like, "No, no, no. I was right in the first place." >> Right? and much more so than you can ever imagine that when the brings out a detail, it's it's it's not just a nice little No, it's it's it's it's it's real and true on many many many different levels and and okay, you have to work do the work of of putting all those pieces together. But I was reading Steven Cotkkins book on Stalin and like the whole piece on this period right the last I don't know if 60 pages 80 pages of the book something like that are are specifically about this about this period at this this this time it's my my my volume is is all noted down all because I already see what what what's going on visa vas and by the way even in the bigger picture in terms of like we're talking about this trade deal and whatever the The Fredicarba, the Fredicarba left the Soviet Union in October of 19 1927. Stalin consolidated power that finished consolidating power. Same time, the same exact time the the front page of the of the RIA free margin, the newspaper in Ria, which which has a picture of the Fredic and says he came and we're going to have a special report and whatever. That same thing has an item about Chrosky and Zunovia of these Jewish whatever but like kind of independent power base power bases of independent uh of Stalin on the central committee in in the communist party in the Soviet Union were expelled from the central committee. That's already the beginning of the end of any opposition to Stalin in the Soviet Union. And that's already the beginning of the end of meaning it's it's we're now entering a new tufa. So you can say black and white that this period of 1927 when the freed leaves the Soviet Union a new period of of Soviet history begins not just from our perspective from from from objective Soviet perspective of what of of of the history and and and what I believe what I think and I I the way that the prism that I see it through is I don't know which one is more important meaning I think those thing those events are happening around our events right it's not that there's events going on and our events are somewhere circling circling nearby right we're like somehow impacted a little bit by the waves no the history this is this is this is the main thrust of history what happened to the Fredba what's going on this trade deal that >> you're saying you're saying you're saying that's our outlook or that's like the >> that's the way I see it meaning out look I don't know. It's not like like a it's not it just that that's that's the way that's the way that I personally see it and you see when you start looking at it in that way you see all these other pieces. Exactly. Like Stalin came consolidates power when then it's like to the day. That's that's that's tremendous. And then and then and then move on whatever and then and then goes on and there's there's there's you know more more more more um chapters that continue and all that all that all that continues. I can make the same argument uh about 1950 1951 whatever that there's a new tufa there there there as well 100% 100% whatever it's for a different conversation but like that's the that's that's what's anyway so the can't play version >> maybe it's a little bit sometimes unsophisticated the way we say it but if you look at you look at this the the the Soviet charging documents >> they're they're amazing there's there's being charged with having a picture of the that's black and Right. You have that there was I wrote an article uh last year, two years ago. I published and I translated a memo to Abakumov who was the head of the KGB, right? Abukum. This is 1949 1950. Oh, it's it's it's detailing the Tadik in his New York and and and and the tried crossing the border and whatever, but it's not being written from one KGB man to another. It's not within a case file, right? Case files, everyone has a case file. I mean, if if you're arrested and there's hundreds of pages on you, fine, great. No, this is to the head of the KGB in Moscow who's reporting directly to Stalin. >> Mhm. >> And and and it's a whole detail. It's a it's a detailed memo of whatever I don't know, for tried crossing the border and and and and got arrested and Misha Greenberg, that group of people tried crossing into into Romania. Why leper unic? >> So it wasn't for the communists didn't look at look at it as for people. >> Well, they see it as like I mean they're they're they see it as something they didn't come to and see it like oh it's important. No, they they see it in this way on their own. >> Mhm. >> By the way, these guys all got 25 years meaning in that in that period they got 25 years uh 25 year sentences which was at that time the highest sentence in the Soviet Union. So that's that's the that that's the fact that they're they're looking at like and and and and so when when because that's the bottom line that are seen as a Jews are the enemy are seen as a organization as a counterrevolutionary organization that's fighting to take us down and the is seen as the as the the head of this counterrevolution and besides for the fact that they believe that that that to be true which means at least on their end it's true. Right? So that on our end it's true as well. Meaning you see it also. Okay. So we're not there to actively take apart the Soviet Union. But if if you if you're if you're if you're if you're and you do in the Soviet Union then then meaning it's implicit over there in in in where I was talking about it. It's like it's implicit that the whole thing is going to fall because because of what the power that you have to do it. Our goal is not democracy. our goal is termites but through termites you're you're you're you're you're destroying anyway. So that I think you see that in the story of of Yud Hamas and you see that in the trajectory and um I think that's an amazing uh it's an amazing thing when you when you open your eyes to be able to look at it that way >> and it gives us a deeper understanding in the letter that the wrote that the quotes probably every not only was I right every single was has a part in the miracle of Tamos that it's not just the fidic's personal imprisonment. And so the way I think having this informative and historical background and understanding of it really helps us understand these words as a for sure for but for >> 100% 100% 100%. Because when the are looking at something when the is writing something when the is referring to it there's no two separations there's no two different worlds there's one world the knows the mentions the ambassador he just mentions him here and there I don't think it's very commonly brought up if I'm not mistaken I don't I'm not a you know but like I I don't think it's not like regularly always brought up but there's a lot of these aides where there have been mentions it's coming with all of that knowledge and knowing what it all means and and and and so there's there's there's layers to all of it and there means all of them. It's not TA is one thing and and the other. No, this is all TA. Mhm. >> So that's that's that's that's the that's the you you could you could you yeah when you when you see all those all those other parts you're able to you're able to see now that literally every every element element of the story is exactly as which is what which which which which um yeah I guess is the right is So that's that's also you know continues on this entire thing that everything happens within Tava is is is begins there and continues uh continues to to our day. Amazing. Okay. Thank you very much. Very very informative and I'm sure many people will enjoy it. >> Thank you very very much. I appreciate it. Okay. [Music]