Ep. 7: A Gimmel Tammuz Conversation with Rabbi Leibel Schapiro

Whatever we're doing now is not it's all included in what the Reb put into us in the Reb he put in all the happy now is all what he did. It's like the Reb started the fire and the fire is continuing. So I feel perspective this is nothing to do with this. It's all it's all the so the Reb is doing it now. It's all what what he did then till Giml Thomas is responsible for what he's doing now. I'm Yasi Cayman. Welcome to among an ongoing faban about life as aid our vibrant connection with the reb and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. Shalom Shapiro. How are you? >> Shalom. Thank God. >> Okay. I appreciate you making the time to have this conversation and I want to say that generally we've done a few episodes of among podcast and usually um I like to do it a little bit free flowing and uh see where it goes. Although today we are going you know a little more focused and the reason is that this is the podcast that we we are posting the podcasts on Sundays and this is the one that will come out on Sunday gimlamos and bea gimble tamos is a day where everyone is looking to connect to the rebba and to do the proper thing. So I believe that it might be uh important to address that and to be uh to to be focused and um I myself have heard you Ang speak before at least once or maybe more than once. So um and my my qu the question kind of is many people have different ways they can they they they talk about or they think about uh the day of gimm um someone that that we spoke to recently called it it's a hard day and he looks to be with on that day. We also know all the things that the spoke about in the about and that that can apply but uh I'm not sure you know I think every year people are trying to figure it out. So maybe uh you can help with with this. >> Well like you said not everybody has the same feeling and not everyone has the same approach. I could just tell you what I feel that the truth is they're both important. First of all, important is to remember what we don't have. Not to make us sad, but to know what the Reb is and what we had. And then we could also say that even though the Gash means we don't have it, we still have it. And then continue same way it was before. But the first thing is to know what what we had. And the reason why there's a difference before Giml Thomas and after Gimlamas and before Giml Thomas we had that hear and after Gimlamus we know he's here but we don't see him with our physical eyes we don't hear him with our physical ears etc etc and that's very important to know that we're missing that. Why are we missing that? Some people would say well if we know we always say the Reb is still here like the Reb spoke you after you is still here with us. But nevertheless from the sideb all the hash everything before we are people we're not great great people us is something and we are people we feel with Gashmi is and we understand what Gashmi is so therefore if we see the Gashmi is it's more tangible to us even though he is towards us and with us and the same way without him being here. The famous story with the they say a story that before he passed away the later years he told his son you should know I worked on myself so much that I'm no more goof my goof is not really a goof gash so his son says to him why if I'm touching you I feel body I feel your body what do you mean you have no body says your problem is I to touch you're touching with body it's your body that's feeling it so you feel body so it's a but lapel that's how we are it we can't change it we are gashik people when we here when we're able to hear the reb see the even we were able to feel what is what's the isim like it says what does mean a godly man what does a godly man means so the med says that means that he's guiding by him and when you stood in front of the you saw him you were able to feel it even with your goof even with your you felt I once heard of he was 77 he came didn't come too often he was He was a top top referred to him as he was a real so once in he said like this we always talk about you have to be you have to have so he said is there any way to describe the gashmi that the person has it's a feeling in the heart so he says I'll tell you yes there You imagine you're standing in the middle of Fabian and the Reb calls you over for some reason and you walk over and you could imagine how people felt. You would push it shake. What are you afraid of? He's not going to hurt you. He's not going to do anything to you. He's fine man. Not going to shake. What are you afraid of? You're afraid knowing that this is Gillyus. But you feel it and that's why you got covered. That's why you would shake. You went into that's how you felt when you went. Your body felt you're going into the shakadim always talked the famous where describes the whole story that he asked his father what's ended up going into he told him we used to have a mikdash and there was shakadosh now we don't have a bisd room is kakadosh when the land is but it's the kakadhim so you walked in you felt it it wasn't it wasn't you you felt it and therefore you would shake. I remember my own at one time I went in and bashmas my foot was shaking and was banging on the floor made noise and I felt so uncomfortable standing in front of the rabbit is banging tuck banging I bent down took my hand put it on my knee to stop it it didn't work what what is the story that the story there is you push it were able to see with your gash in we know that it was there and said but the gash is and we're more We relate more to Gashmis and even also we relate more to Gashmis than to because we're human beings. It's no's fault. It's Dish's fault that he made us gashmic people where Gash relate to. So we have to think of that. So when it comes to Gibble Thomas, I tell people because there's always differences of opinion. You know, this guy says, "How could you say that you feel bad that it's a day of the word sadness is always bad, but it's a day that's very sincere and very serious and it's and no, it has we have to be just as happy as before because the that's true. But the first thing is if we know what we had begash before we able to hear the reba and when you heard the you were able to stand there and we could describe standing by you felt like standing in but you felt it you felt it so you felt so when you heard the voice it says it says but in truth is every word that the rebb says and There's a simple means that when spoke the voice sounded not's voice it's like him that's talking that means is so when he spoke he this is being by the you would feel it and that because we're the people we don't feel it so that's one thing that we have to feel on giml this is a day that the gashmi is we don't And that's so we have to in think about it what it meant. Then we have to know that you learned the that he's still with us and with us and the truth is you could even feel it. You have to work on it harder. It's harder you can feel it and you have to feel that way and you have to still is and we see it. I wouldn't say is but we see with all the things that are happening not not only the Mim that the Reb does when you go to the which is maybe more even than the Mim did Gimmel but even not only that but you you could feel to a certain degree but l but we have to work on ourselves to feel it and to know that it's still the same even though when it comes to you have to behave differently know what the Reb said of the Reb kept on saying we all know that the Reb is musb Stupid was all the he said came pes to the seder the rebba made till then he didn't make because in front of the reb you don't make so someone asked the reb you just kept say he's still here so said when it comes to say you have to go push it into the is not here so we have to take that in consideration we have to work both sides it's a little bit hard to work both sides but it says in I don't mean it means that joy should be on one side of your heart and lotion there is crying is another side but there talks about I don't mean crying now but to feel the seriousness of what the Reb was when he was Hebra is when you could see him you have to feel that on one side and at the same time you have to feel that it's all there even though we don't really feel it but we have to juggle between the two I don't know if we could call it of whatever expressions you want to use but that's what gimlas is. It has both things and also in order to really feel that it's the Reb is still there. You got to know what it meant that the Reb was there. If you don't know what meant the Reb is there, you don't know what to say. Well, he's still here. Still what? So, you got to be Ms. Bain and what the Reb was and how the Reb was to us and what he meant to us and from a Balabata point of view even from the Gashmik point of view there was a different different world different life. Then if you know that you try to be M shad now and if you're Miss Bain and then you work on it you're able to feel it. >> Okay. Very uh very well explained and I have a few there's two there's two ways where we can take this. So >> both. >> Okay. Good. So maybe maybe we'll do both. My first question is >> maybe I'll regret what I said. Okay. My first shila is that uh I'm thinking about myself um thinking through all the gimbal tamos all the all all the times that happened every year in the past many years you know um from when I was a bak till now you know and I feel like this might I'm not sure if this is accurate because I'm portraying it in others but I felt like the first part the part that we realized that we're lacking something was very strong. You you felt thatal and then you felt that you especially it was kind of like in the air like you can you can you can mamish feel it and today there are many first of all we're talking about 30 over 30 years. Second of all, we're talking about a whole uh new crowd and people that grew up after the gumos or were born after the gumos etc. And is it is it an a that you're supposed to work on to have that feeling of a yearning? Is is that an is that something that to work on? That's one that's one that's one part of what I wanted to ask you. Maybe I'll stop talking and hear what you have to say. >> Oh, definitely is an definitely something that we have to stress. We have to work on it. And uh even though those that were not there by they were born after Gimmos, but they have to find out. That's one of the models of the videos. That's by the way when you see it gives you an understanding, a demian of what it was. It doesn't show them how to replace anything but it gives you a demian like the reb that you should have a picture of the and also you should look at it and man bean in your mind how was it when you went into and how was it when you were by and then the said that even if those that were not there could also be miss and one of the ways is if you hear from others when it says it's not because the alt is on the best of deny with the young people that's not the the the might the great sitkas of this alabashmas they were there and they were able to describe it and if you describe it you were able to feel it we have a person here in shou so many years already but he never was by the so once I was mentioning it I was trying to describe how it was by the uh looks like I'm making you jealous And then they said, "You know what? Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to make you jealous. Yes, be jealous." But I said, "It's a shame that those that weren't there." So he turns around to me, this young man says to me after healing all the fabas, I talk I talk a lot about the Reb and describe it and I try to describe it in details. And he says to me, I feel as if it was yes, I know so much about it. So when you see the videos of it makes it even more seem. But so that's the way to do it. And you should stress it. It's not Some people put a stress on that only or very much. So all it brings out, it brings out that you have a bad feeling and you feel what you're missing, which you are, but it it stresses too much. So you got to but you got to do it. Is it an a and it's not easy, but you got to work on it. Like I said, same thing I said before that in order to be able to feel that the Reb is with us now, we have to have an understanding of the Reb. Now, understanding what the Reb means two things. understanding what the Reb is that we needed before also besides looking at the Reb and seeing and hearing his voice and seeing his holy face we have to understand you have to learn is learn to know what is and that's the first thing you have to do to understand what is I don't know if there'll be time we could get into it what is all other things so that you have to be miss that's from the intellectual philosophical part but then you also have to have the gashmik part which before you didn't have to work on it you were there someone had a wasn't there for a while so if you're in New York you just today I'm going to come down I'm talking about have to be there anyway I'm going to come down if you're out of town you know what for this shabas I'm going to take a flight and go from Miami to to New York it is easy it's not that big a to have that feeling now it's hard now you go to it's the closest you could get true but it's still it's still you don't see the so you have to work on that to know what it was before giml you you mentioned something interesting that before giml you also have to work on or come to an understanding of so I want to ask you what did that mean for you like when when you were say was the that you got from from from from home or was coming to But what was it like for you? Well, it's for sure from connected to connected to to the from home if you come from Shah that's the whole atmosphere of the home and then when you go to yeshiva and you have I mean all that's all part of the job part of the >> I'm asking I'm asking you personally what happened >> well it was from home and then a lot we got from that I have to say >> where you you learned in in Bedford >> I first I learned in Bedford we were young boys when we were in Bedford I came to actually to New York and toshin I went to Bedford Toshin Giml Tamus that's when we we went to 770 transfer to learn 770 use with us a lot especially starting not 8:00 in the evening or 7 o'clock till 7 o'clock in the morning and the whole time talking most of the time and he brought into the what the reb is and and then he did a he the pale our class was actually we were known as his we were connected to him very much what he did was he took let's call American boys and made them into and he with his fab he wasn't the mashia type that actually spoke to each individual and gave that's not his general fabang in general and everything instilled in the to understand what is attitude that's what that's what he did and also not not only him he was more with philosophy with with you know understanding then and other who were so that instilled in us this and they would also speak and fing so it comes from both I even took a lot from even though I was very young but I took a lot from my zed my mother's father who was the Reb is Malammed and his battle to the Reb was outstanding. You can't imagine I was you know surprised the rebel >> stood up for him and he came to one day wouldn't sit down. He sat down the second time because he couldn't stand. He was paralyzed. But the first time he wouldn't sit down the said if you're not sitting I'm not going to sit. So just to see his and talking to him that instilled it talk about me personally into the feeling of what the is but see some people just just very I'm only this deeper because you know it's it's butad is not enough that you know and this you have to have that for sure but in addition to that we have to understand and >> some people some people say that they came to the for the first time and then that was it. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's good. That's good. But then after that that's the NASA before the nishma. >> Yeah. >> That has to be and that's very good if that's the first thing has such that that's it. I was hooked up on it and then that's it. But then you have to sit down and understand what this is all about. It's saying the medish says which by the way it's a medish someh say there's no such med and the reb has with many this is written a medish but but say the same thing there is you have to have and the best thing is a guy feels all of a sudden he starts feeling feels closer that's fine but that's not enough teaches that there has to be you say that you say that you have to you have to know it's not init says and the same thing you should believe here it says to know and it's not the quotes both it's not why because they need both you need you need to know and that's it but then if you don't understand I don't want to get into here this is not a philosophical discussion but if you don't understand what is ahat I don't understand I don't understand me means my disagrees that's like I don't see how this is so I don't see who prove it to me I don't so my is fighting it so imagine you believe in the everything every part of you is bled to the except the most important part of you your brain your brain doesn't accept it he just give up he says I'm overlooking the fact that I'm fighting you and I nevertheless you're winning that can't be you have to have the understanding so the same thing with the you have to have understanding. It's very good. And there are some people which that's all there yet and that's it. But you have to have you have to learn about and think about and hear about it. But that was always even that was easier when the Reb was here with so it wasn't that made you see when you sat by and you heard the speak and maybe the itself brought out in you to understanding standing I give an example. I don't know why I'm picking this example. The example of when said the haden the first haden and I wasn't my I was here we had a hookup it was mish blew your mind to understand what the is was much easier then look no human being in the world was able to say it this shows this is a person that's two days ago no today's Wednesday Sunday there was some they made a not not which is a and then came and I spoke what I speak everything I say is only even if I don't mention it says that didn't have to say because said once yeah yeah so and he doesn't have to repeat it every time so I didn't say but it was obvious to the guy who to see him. He's a Swish guy, but I find you in a man. So he walks the next day in the morning. He tells me all you said is from the Reb, right? I'm sure he took it from Shmayim. I was always think he took it from Shayim. There's only someone who comes from Ganed who is in Ganedan could say such which has both extremes. It's very and very down to earth and it's it so when you see the and you hear it so you get talking that part you when you learn and you see you get Paul also but I'm just saying then it was but easier but nevertheless you had to have nowad now you have to another prat there's two boness you have to have the boness of whatever is with and at the same time the boness that even though he's not here gashmi that we could He's still here and he's still mashia and we have to have and all the cases that people have. How could you say that he's here? I'll give you an example. This is already I don't know this is mention you can say whatever you want whatever if you want you can cut it out whatever you do we're standing it was a few we came back after the week of Giml Thomas came back standing outside the yeshiva outside >> you're saying you came back came back a week later so maybe another few days and a guy someone the car drives by sees me stops there was a here said he stopped says, "Oh, good. I see you. I want to ask you a question. What's going to be with all the now?" I had the feeling was people didn't know it. Everyone was confused. What's going to be and he says like this till now we know. So has the beer the has the beer now that the mash is not here and they use the words that they use I'm just using it terms even though I wouldn't use these words but so how are these people now it's a and people ask that sincerely some people criticize the a person a serious person who knows what the lavage is and he says how do you explain that So I don't know what to I told him I'll tell you how I'll tell you how it works. There's a deen like this. It says that there's no more the real that used to be in the time of the there's no more and we can't pass. So that's why the best can't pass certain we can't pass. What about this? They're still best and could ask and monetary dispute disputes this they could ask based on what if there's no so said for that or something like that we are of those the best of the say so they have the right but they only made it certain everything else the question is how could the how could the when those people from the 2 years ago are not found anymore now. So I told him what thehat is the says in that lay mess that from now is not a nib different the people are different but the is a is a is an entity for itself. So the same from then now the sanur that's the represent lay me so they're still around. So what we do now we're of that were then because they are they said that's the you understand they said the dash says in parasa says that so the door is the door there's no there's no so is just as good of as then are the same as somebody saying this is not a good but you need a haz so you have to think about it now the best thing is in addition to this that you have an it's clear like the day that the is with us and everything true but if you have so you have to ask the way I in the other generations that came into another gashmi one to the other and now since it's so close to Msiah it doesn't have to be it's still but that nud is still there I'm trying to say that this needs to be done to be misban what is a reb and then the prat how's this reb work >> now if someone has no questions and doesn't need an explanation is there good >> because you I don't want to be made cautious >> yes so the hb that you gave to the rash >> aigla is basically an explanation that the is defined by theb that theb is the nasi So, so, so that's that's the definition of the D. So, >> okay, >> I'm saying it's the same it's it's that it's the same it's the same same explanation >> and therefore and therefore it's and that day since he's at and he's continuing but but would be because lay it's not in it's not not only lay he's still here he's still we wanted to know he asked me this he said I have a he wasn't didn't mean to say when there's no and I told him in this there is no such thing just like just like this said because it's the is so that that's the but there's all kinds of asbas that there is and you have to think about it and to it's not easy but it's definitely there so getting back to what we spoke before the beginning and the end there's what was before And that's things that you can't live with over like can't live with what used to be like that. So then forget about you can't forget about either teach. normally teaches you behavior like there's a letter from the where he writes to the schools that they should teach history Jewish history and gives the reason why because when you learn you learn the Eden had all these dunderation so it'll be to have that's gives you but in this case it's more than that you have to know the you know we saying that there's no all that is now too what's all that so you got to That's where you got to talk. Listen to people who were there and not because the people are there are nicer than you are better than you. People from that lived in byb are not big at sadik and you think there's and light now greater sadik and greaterish and light and no more but they weren't there. So you have to hear from somebody to give you that's what again the mile of the pictures or the mile of the videos is that gives you and you still have it because I see from people who constantly watch videos and they still ask me such questions when they gay what I said you didn't see it there you video it's not the is not the same so that's what that's what has to go through the mind of a person both >> there's a about this concept about the ish that he writes when I was a child. He saw describing singing >> and all of a sudden they all got up and started singing and writes in the way writes was very >> explanatory and very detailed how you could push feel like you're standing by like at that moment. I think that's kind of that I mean the whole the whole is basically remembering it but it's every single day it's happening but remembering it in order for >> not only in order it is when you have to remember it in such a way that's the story with the guy who was a soldier in the army and he was summoned once to the zar and was trying to describe he asked him how did it feel So he's trying to describe every detail how how he got ready to go into the Zara and then finally finally standing in front of the door. I I don't remember the details but describing and with such emotion finally it gets to the point that now he's ready to go in. He fainted when he told it over because he really relived it. But that's yourself. See I was there and this I'm reliving what it is. We're talking here about people who were not there. Those that were there must do that too. They start have to start thinking and talking. That's why sometimes by I try to talk somebody asked me why you go into the details I'm trying to not talk to them I'm trying to bring it back into my mind to sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't I mean depends so to relive again to you you should feel that way that's what it is so so that's what you got to do now >> um so but you're saying so this so saying the fact of the matter is that okay I I I think I think we I I have the balance over here. Um is someone supposed to let's say I mean you're there's a children today you know I have my own children and now it's already cliche so >> the fathers already >> weren't there >> so it's a I mean uh I was I was born but you know um So I think the only way I'm saying this just highlights the importance of the individual of every individual really really taking this seriously as as an aa that needs to be done because the reality we know the reality that that the reb is here. So but you know are we going to you can not be be involved and let it uh fly by without you realizing because because it's it's not the way it was. They could just be there. So I think this is uh I think Gimlas is for sure the day that we have to make sure that we're there that we're actually that we are we we are alive so we can we can continue all this. >> It has to be a masher send somebody to the pill whatever to ask him. So he he said so he said I think that was maybe something similar in other words you could be a but it's so strong that it so is not and if but you have to live it if you live it then when you give over because certainly children if it's metanis or it's just lip service as m so in order for the children to accept it you have to they have to see that have to feel they even realize it but they feel that you're living it. The male they live it too >> in another target. >> So the cliche is is technically it's a cliche but yeah we're not we're not we're not a cliche. >> We're not a cliche. >> I I'll give a full disclaimer. I don't consider myself a cliche. >> But uh um I mean maybe sometimes I do sometimes I don't but I'm addressing this issue for me for for many I I guess is even if you're technically but >> you could be in such a way. Right. Right. Right. >> Fine. So, so Right. So, this this is very important. So, maybe going back to the to the maybe something that we can do in this conversation is is live with and relive through hearing from you. So, maybe I'll focus maybe let's focus a little bit on that a little bit. Um, so I understand that and you grew up in I'm not sure where you were born, but you grew up in Cleveland, right? Is that is that >> I was born in France >> after the war. >> Right after the war. Yeah. After when my parents they escaped Russia together with all those see them escaped Russia to Zion came to France. First they were in Germany and the DP camps and they came to France and I was born the first week that they came there and I was Cleveland but by from myan I I went to learn to New York so I came to after my mitzvah and that's where I stayed already till then I also was by the so if you want to know my personal history I mean just to think I don't know my personal history is not from the Gaya but it just >> I I'm interested in knowing so I Okay. I'm I'm interesting annoying from other people too. Just to hear it's very interesting. >> Yeah. Especially when I read these articles of interview with people and they tell stories of their own. I like it. It has asho because it's more when it's personal. You have more sh to it >> 100%. >> We came to America went to I was a little boy. I was six years old. That was my first time. I was by the with my family, my parents, brother, sister. I remember and I'm usually embarrassed to say this over, but I have to say the truth. I have to be honest. Reb asked me and I remember like the day because it I regret what happened. I regret so much. He asked me if I know how to say schma. I said yes. I was six years old. And then the Reb says, "No, let's hear." And I was too shy. I didn't say. We heard later that the same night another family that came from Europe, from Russia, America went into this with children that asked him a kid to say, and he said, and gave him a silver dollar. I felt so bad that I didn't, but you know, a kid is a kid. Well, not always did I have maz when the reb as young when the second time I was my father took me for father used to go every year from Cleveland for what were you doing in Cleveland why why was he in Cleveland >> Cleveland because they joined who took the the refugees out brought them and they supported them so they divided families in different cities and we're not going to put everyone in New York some people they sent to Philadelphia some people sent to Detroit some people sent to Cleveland. We were on the sent to Cleveland. So they sent us to Cleveland and the Reb said we should go and if we wouldn't go to Cleveland they wouldn't support us. They they had their quoter whatever they had. So we were in Cleveland but from there my father was there and he was from but uh so took me to the took him with him. So I was still young then. How do you >> I was born and this I was 11 years old. So he came there and I was there with and was rabbi would givea to those people who didn't get every year like that years later he would give even for the locals he used to give throughout the whole week of and for the not only but all of but then it most of the years it was he gave to those that came and those that weren't there got the sh so still a big line a lot of people just came for not like the later standing in line. There was a long line of people there and we all know that by these types you can't stop and talk to the Reb spend time when there's hundreds of people waiting in line but came I walked over with my father the first thing they turned around to me he said to learn lessons out of the blue when there's hundreds of people in line I wasn't ready for it then yeah what I learned I learned So I answer says to me, but he really I assume meant in like but that's I didn't take it that I was a kid. I told I learned the Reb says to me. So I said to the hund we all know he asked how many kas you blow. I said 100. We all know everyone knows every kid knows he blow 100. So the reb asked me a question all these 100 kas is medina gim or not is that you have to blow 100 kis does it come from the everyone knows that mida you have to blow nine which turned into 30 because we don't know. So it's 30. The rest are not. Where did it come from? He said from the gim. He asked me these words the 100 kais and I didn't know I didn't learn that I didn't answer saw that so gave me said don't you remember and we left and I felt very that as a loser you know I did not know the answer I asked adults send people no one knew the answer asked people now you didn't you didn't ask me yet >> which one is So that was shabut then I was by the I was a kid I was sitting there I didn't know understand thing one thing I remember from one of the that made such an impression I remember it like like now I looked in the from is not a word of that but the middle of the middle of the I don't know what the said that to do to purify your emotions your attributes Then the Reb stopped and smiled and he said proof try it you'll see. So that was what my memory from. Then we went into Yiddis. I was so scared to go into my father because who knows not ask me more questions and I won't know but went to that was the famous fabanga known as the fabangan from Ktonzik when the downstairs huh >> going to say say the story >> yeah tell tell you the story >> one of the integral components of being aim and whether it's or gimot. These days give us an opportunity to connect with ourim to connect with each other and be better. What is the story behind each of these days? How did the rabbi commemorate and celebrate these days? And most importantly, what are the lessons, the takeaways, and the action items needed for each of these dates? All of this and much much more are answered in the new set recently published by Dher. Our days is a journey through the Kabad calendar in story, meaning practice with over 700 beautiful glossy pages with elevated content, beautiful, beautiful photographs. You, your family and friends will enjoy and live with each. This book is a must for every labamature home, for every schul, for every school. It is a perfect gift item. This will not collect dust. It will be used day after day, month after month, year after year. You can have the set. Go to deher.org/ org/our days order your set today and start living with >> there was no shul no built shul there was just a big suka they called it the shalash so at sukas it was a suka and during the year they covered with canvas and that's where the was so that's it was covered with canvas and that's where the the canvas had holes and it rained in pouring and it was mud remember the even when he came out. He had to walk on benches because he couldn't walk on the floor. So when it came next the the next morning, the Gaba stood by the rabbis's door and said, "We can't denounce is cold and dirty." So by one of the is an extra and the Reb spoke about it and the Reb said to find out what's doing and the it's not it's a and brought back the message that it's called it's still cold by us and dirty and they ever went out. How could that be? We passed we passed. We passed. We passed already pass was crying and I remember he put his head down on the table which was very some a few other times also but put down crying and you could hear him out loud crying. It was very that was the just by the way we're talking about already which is only five years later the sh was built already electricity went. So the so the the gaba stood by the rebel also by the door and told the reb we and since there was no electricity there was no lights and there was no heating told the we can't dair is when we heard that he said it couldn't understand the guy and ded upstairs but if I bring downstairs in the dark downstairs after even of those years would go back upstairs to downstairs by the end of the Reb said that a few years ago the story that happened he said with Ktonik but I want to tell a story there was an old lady that she started reading in Sar the stories of of and she read the story of they sold and she was crying Y he sold him and she was crying. Next year when she read it again, she wasn't crying. So someone asked her, "Why aren't you crying? You cried less." He says, "Huh? No, I'm not crying. Why didn't you remember what happened last year?" And he's went again and can't cry for said I'm not getting so excited now from this. But that was and the next then from then on every till including no including I came to New York and since I stopped but I used to come every I was there every since then but anyway from I was I learned in New York I learned in >> so every from >> so I was there by the that's one of the things to remember which is to relive live the gishmak and now I'm talking about the gishmak foramis not only for the gishmak of being by the ning a whole year you waited for the ning >> can you describe a little bit what what what was like when >> the way it started I wasn't there it was before my time but after at night there was like this first start at 9:00 to went to probably 12:31 that's night rebu left for about half hour they changed the structure of the shul so it should be ready for a coffee the reb would come down for a so he came down about 1:30 then there was a took a few hours after a coffins the reb went upstairs to eat the yont meal because they used till as long as was alive the ate the yont meals upstairs he went up after the aftermine what time that was so the meal finished probably says is five o'clock in the morning or I don't know I'm just throwing out numbers Then the Reb came downstairs and it wasn't officially to teach a ning. He came down to distribute mashk to all those who take upon themselves a li and while the reb was distri distributing it he would teach a and then he would ask people to sing over the niggan. Usually he would give an introduction to the niggan where the niggan comes from or the meaning of the niggan is the main one what that people remember is shamil's niggan when he told the whole story of was crying that was but I remember I was there when it was I think the some of that and then I remember was she was laying on the reb's feet crying crying crying people said and said lost them lost them lost But that's all in but it was such a such a feeling but I do remember to when the Reb came in and the way the Reb started I told one of my friends I am afraid this is the last year what made me think so because right away the Reb started saying I say always that this is only for those who take upon themselves a limit this is not like that everyone stands in line to take and I see little kids standing in line. So you should know that he said it very so you see that he's upset and the reb started giving the mashk and teaching the but nobody actually moved to take the kids out or to and it continued for some odd reason how could it be as long as no one felt that it's up there should been I guess I don't know but it wasn't sobb stopped and the said I said that this is only for those and bea what's going to happen now in 15 minutes is going to be over. I'm going to stop and the reb added these words. I don't know if it's written or not. I don't think so. But I'm telling you this is clear with their clear as day. And the finished off saying always waited to get the is almost finished. They come running and you have to so now I'm telling you I'm going to stop in 15 minutes came it was a quarter if it was a quarter to six or seven I think it was a quarter to seven but I can't say sure clock was there and I looked when it this clock struck or six or seven I think it was seven but took the up, put it down. That's it. Not giving anymore. In the meantime, he taught a second ning. So, first he taughing and then he taugh. And he said because next year, I'm not sure if there'll be another or not, but mainly taught it. Next year when he finished hakus, he walked out and he said, as I said last year, it won't be in this year, he started singing. So I remember he started singing last year's I have a big argument with he said no the start of said that's not the way I remember good I don't know whatever >> so you're saying that I think the way people always explain it is that the did it until was nostalic and then he stopped but the way you're saying it I mean obviously we don't know for sure but it sounds like this is a decision the rebba Then >> I don't know the said >> whatever something was going on. He's not sure what's going to be next year. >> Other words, >> you know, he said if the said that >> I'm saying so >> sure. Yeah. >> So it's connected that because of that I can't sing is no it's not so that seems connected. I also think it's connected but I you can't know another time like he wasn't taking people weren't taking it seriously. So right the wanted sing and the no one knew the and the rebba said I would teach the ning but because of my mat I can't do it so he did hold himself back but that was a weak day I don't know but this is things that we could speculate we could think some people think this I'm not sure I'm not sure >> the said something similar about why he's stopping that people are not people not utilizing it properly >> not utilize it yeah people ask they take it out of the sh and then next year you go in and you say I didn't keep what you said yes last year the minute the whole thing stopped and when he stopped being the one year >> so the referred to it fed stopping the he said and made it as a no one like took it serious and when he gan that the reb used to give the every year so the reb referred to it and as a that people really didn't pay attention so much to it stopping the said that he stops he says I so these are all things that we talk about it it brings back the says I think it's a verse of the means that was lost it's cut out of your mouth he's complained that no is complaining that people losing I think of the you know why the is lost because stop talking about it if we talk about so this talking itself is important that people should get the picture and I always tell you This maybe causes you to feel jealous. It's there good. It's exactly what the kavon is. Be jealous. Feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel bad that you were there but me. You have to work on the having it now as much as possible. But gosh means yeah. Um so and every year it's very interesting. So every you were come to the you already had a shaw in Miami. >> That was years later. But while you had you already had a show I came to Miami and after so till then I was always I was in New York I lived there I was in yeshiva I was I learned in some 70 I came to bet for and learned there till middle of then I learned some 70 I got married then I learned in I was there but then after I used to come also come and other times and then cameas I was always And I had my place later years when they made the shoe bigger. I had to move back. at my place right by the Reb. would stand be where stood. I stood there by Akoffus together with Herbiel place and since it was after Fabangan and there was no so quietly between a quietly with me I could proate to remember >> this is all the years you told me when you were >> when I was right till yeah later when I left when I was yeah >> because you were part of the whole whole story with that >> story. Yeah, which everyone knows. >> I don't know if everyone knows but but you stood next to the Fabang. >> I stood next to the Fabang and here we made special to stand there and I was because I stood there I I was able to see things hear things the most I saw myself. So you guys standing right there. I got a place right there right in front of the I stood in front of the two feet from the was standing on the be. I was on the floor and there were the poles there. You know the be that had the poles on the the wall the the wall of the be. So I was standing there and we used to talk. I remember I saw the Reb put his hand into his pocket to take out his handkerchief and when he picked up his I saw the gle inside >> on and this on the shirt >> on the shirt I don't know if people connect maybe it was the same thing I don't know because I don't know if he means that >> I don't know I saw the I saw my own eyes I saw the things like people were talking things you You have to know one thing that people say is true. when I said I made sure only say oh I heard it from a or I was there myself but stories as so what people say when you see it so this I saw I say I'm able to say when they say the reb had a guard to I saw it on myself under the shirt picked up the sea I saw when the guys from the Israeli consulate used to come those years I was able to hear the I remember this was keeper war of Shalamadal. I was still standing and I remember I overheard Arab stood there 45 minutes. I said while I was waiting told him that they should go into Damascus spoke to them. I remember they answered that Damasi can't the tanks can't go because it's too rocky. I don't know what remember what he said but he's like laughing. It's a joke. They can't go with the rocks. What kind what kind is it? And he said to him, I want you to the the right thing is to go and take over Damascus and not to keep it. And he said also you should take over Damascus and then give it back again. This I can't say for sure. He said that's I'm pretty sure but you know started think it's fake that he said go take go Damascus take it over. I think he said go into the banks take out all the money and leave >> something like that I think. Anyway, but that was the benefit of standing there but they're standing there very close but I could not have the close place to the reb couldn't have both >> you had to choose which one the reb quoted this gimor when the rebood so the reb should go one year the reb said people should go on the shishov and speak about me yudi and anybody speaks about me yhoodi on tishov in the shs reb will give him a dollar no dollars then we're talking those here which year was base maybe. So, and they did I remember I went I went both times Friday at night and next night actually I came to the Spanishul in in Burough Park and I asked the gab there if I could speak two minutes about Mudi. He said no. He walked out and the minion finished. I got up and I started speaking. I spoke about it for two minutes. By the time he heard about it he came running. I was finished already. Then you remember got a dollar from theb people who were weren't there. So after they came back they wrote to theb we heard about it. So we also spoke about we want a dollar. So theb first of answered that you got whenever you went to give each group $2 from the reb. So you got your dollar. Besides that, he quoted in it says people would stand and watch the king go to go to mikvah or go and some people would watch in the but you couldn't do both but maybe not because you're not allowed to because if you had a place here you couldn't do it there same thing here you couldn't so I didn't have that but you could see from far but most of that I was there I was there when the I was standing right there when the got his heart attack because I came from I still standing there >> so you're ready you're ready >> yeah I was very for a few years but I when I came back I had my place that's one thing I had my place so I stood next to I was standing there and I saw Reb looking to the crowd I saw the Reb's face go white mish like a sheet pale and Rabbi Grooner was standing right there no one knows I'm telling people won't maybe believe me I pulled Rabbi Grooner by his capote I was on the floor he was standing on the beam I pulled him took around to me he said Give the Reb his chair. And he didn't notice. >> He didn't notice cuz he was standing here and the Reb was in front of him. Give the Reb the chair. As I said it, I don't know if the Reb heard it or not. The Reb turned around to him and pointed at the chair. That's when the Reb sat down. So I was there right right standing right there. Mish inches two feet away maybe. And the is sitting on the chair in the middle of hakafas was a shock wave. >> Yeah. But I saw before then when they started screaming they knocked the windows out and they started screaming that people vaser vaser. So they brought from the sink across the other room. They brought the water and people write in the yman. You can't believe everything it says. They write that theb said I can't do it because it's no for kdesh. Reb didn't say anything. Deb just dismissed it. But you know why? Besides the suki and the kdish dirty a dirty a dirty can drink it make more sick but didn't want we didn't say anything. We just assumed that before kish and before and outside of the suk not sis but I was standing there. That's where I had the >> and so you stood there later the later years also. >> Yeah. Yeah. later till they made it bigger and then they moved everyone away so we could in the year next year the year that's when they made that people shouldn't stand so close so there should be more air I was there too even though my wife gave birth in chabas and was Sunday night I took a plane on and I came and I told my wife Impossible to stay home for for the year after the heart attack and the is going to come out to our coffers. Impossible. Impossible. So I came back. >> And what did your wife say? >> I had no choice. I don't know. No. Anyway, she was in the hospital. So I told her, I can't do anything. I can't hospital is not next to the house. So what's going to be anyway? I'm going have to give my children out to different people to stay. and I'm not going to be with but you anyway. >> So what's the difference? You don't you're going to be there and so I went. People couldn't believe it. I saw people on Sha. I told him I got a muzzle. I had a boy. When did you have a boy? Yesterday. Anyway, but that's how it is. Certain things, you know. I said that's not possible. I'm a test not to come. >> Mhm. Yeah. And saying this is uh you need you need oxygen. >> Yeah. Exactly. No, but this time about that that year when it's right after the heart attack, I was standing there standing there and I see and made not so strong but one very long standing there by one of the coffers like this. I see Salari pointing to Ira Weise Dr. twice making like this like go over to the rabbit tell him to stop I mean still the reb's heart was not the boy and he didn't know what to do twice but so he started walking closer to the reb noticed him coming closer the made him like this and then um saying it was that the whole event of was like um it ca it came out out of nowhere but then then but then a I'm saying afterwards is uh >> from onwards is a whole new whole new >> a whole new true no one thought it's possible he looked at the not things like this should happen this >> wasn't there something in >> yeah but that didn't change the didn't change the rebb's style The Reb is like day daily work and things he came to >> the Reb had a heart attack then >> yeah small heart attack >> you knew about it when you were back >> then some people knew yeah he knew a little still right no one knew no one really knew >> no but there were time that went home at night like this he would go home 11 12:00 at night he went home 9:00 >> and it was so you're saying no one it wasn't possible such >> yeah thing was not on anybody it should be a harder it's not it's a different you know he looked at a different but you know got to from that so you're saying the fact that the recovered right away reinforced >> yeah yeah different no one thought anything else >> and that's also So that's that's uh we still don't understand. So we still doesn't make any sense. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. >> Yeah. So said when those were in the fire, the car fire when they went to say say >> no there was there was a for one of the but I was like from the newer ones because I wasn't there all year so I didn't go to that was out of town and on the way back there was a fire and they got hurt and but and the actually had written before before that in the letter in he added the vort after you become richer. But that word I'm trying to bring out is one verse that he spoke with Fabian about it and he said the reason it happened is for the pleest it's from the wonders of other words there's no basically we're saying he has no explanation why it happened because the all the different things that took place you know throughout all these years the experiences some experience that blen I feel like small things but sometimes it stays in you when who lit the candles. Soak's son he used to do that he used to light the candles before there was one day that he asked me be after stayed there that this day he can't be here by ma so he asked me to light the candles whom somebody got married the night before he told me it was not told him I could come and help him to set up his house so I said I can't go because I have to be here on time when before the reb comes in to light the candle Don't worry, you'll be finished. You'll be finished. I went to the house and he nudged me. Stay more. Stay more. I said I can't. I have to leave now. And the last minute I left and it was middle of the winter and with a coat and with a scarf and I saw it late that I was coming out any minute. So I ran. I didn't even take off my coat. I ran straight. Everyone was waiting for me. I ran straight into the shul in my coat in my scarf. I even had one of the gloves on or something. And I took the ca the mattresses and started lighting the candles. And as I'm lighting the candles, the Reb walked in. And the Reb walked in and he stood there waiting for me. Imagine I'm standing there looking like an idiot. And the Reb is standing next to me waiting for me to light. I couldn't even lighten that for weeks and weeks. Couldn't get to myself. The feeling of standing there like a M is like this or it's an impression that >> anyway these are Islam feelings you have sometimes >> what's the feeling >> or the feeling now >> yeah no I'm saying whoa whoa yeah >> no the feeling of of how could I do such a thing >> was feeling standing in front of the reb in front of the king is standing and and standing if you're standing doing something you do before reb has to Even a second one minute has just wasted my time and standing there and and lighting you do that before that's why I was planning to that's why it's I can't come no it's a gut and slept into his house anyway but this is something that you know leaves an impression all the the whole time being living the whole life is 770 was living with the reb that's what that's all it was >> when did he come when did he come to 770 >> to learn he I remember we came but the whole life was especially those who were more involved in the so it was all around the fabangans and around what the rebba said then you're involved in firstb made and then we were involved in making so was much so how what what happened over there that you got that bahim got involved in the before it was just doing it. >> Oh, there Bim who helped but not official other books said a lot said but >> so what was the whole official thing to make why why was that important >> I believe I'm not even I never verified it but I think wrote to the >> he said it's hard for him to do it >> hard for him to do it himself he needs people to be involved more so that's when the so all I know is we were sitting in 770 at night the night of it ramen Klein comes in looking for a few guys he had names and he found guys he was looking for said who wants to see you those years who wants to see you it was Mish showing something so we went >> what year we talking about >> Mhm. That's 59 years ago. Okay. I mean, it's a long time. And he he said the Reb asked that clear. Usually when he'd say things that the Reb, he wouldn't say nameb. He just would say this is what this we're asking you to do. The Reb asked if he would be ready to become I don't remember the helpers of be part of something like that. We agreed. And he said, "But you should know the responsibility that you're taking." That was the night of your chart. Next night was the big faben. The day after that, we get a message from Rabbi Klein. That >> who is the group? >> It was and Picarski and myself and it wasn't he wasn't part of the group either. even though was writing the he used to write hus I used to go over it again I used take off and add whatever I was but we but I don't know why I can't say who chose the names I don't know I don't know so we went in and but the next day he said the reb asked but why didn't you guys go over to the reb for this appoint being appointed by the then the rebba said he said didn't go let him come let him come So shabas we went up to the be standing all four of us and as we walked over got up from his chair to the rebba to tell him what we're there for. But he turns around and he says like saying what you for. So the first one standing says I take upon myself to help. Then you turn to next each one do you two. He wanted each one to verbally say it. Then we went down to our place. Rabel was act then standing on the other side. So the Reb turns around to him and he said let him also say then he said well or let them come to you or you go to them. So he started coming to us and the Reb said to him in other words let them go to you. So we went over his side and then the Reb told us again all to drink a full cup of wine. And then he turned around and he said that the parents of the Bim who are here should also say. So's father was there. His grandfather of also said something to the Reb. And then the Reb said who else? Soak's father wasn't there. My father wasn't there in Cleveland. Fry Picansky's father was there and he was sitting no the Reb is sitting up front. He was down one of the tables. The Reb says out loud to him. Then the Reb says to him means that the son is greater than the father. But in that before the brought that and we so he also said and from then on we started working. So it's even though the the were lovely connected to these five four exactly but that's when we started giving out the till then used to write and but he stopped because he had to do the wanted to do it. So >> the hanus that you were writing this is was just for that are not mugg right it has nothing to do with the that's this is a separate issue is a separate issue this is just writing and I remember when we started doing it and thinking of giving it out there was a discussion amongst us the lea worked like this those years Rabbi Galitzki would sit by and take notes then he would type up a he would give it to me and I would go through it and add my five cents and then add and write or whatever this then we decided to give it out and this was like something illegal because it was only was the one so the discussion what should you write on the bottom >> I'm not I'm not following wasn't did what didn't want want this >> it wasn't officially made that we should give out no >> so officially was still random >> still yeah so whatever he wrote he wrote whatever he didn't he didn't the most he didn't already so we decided >> yeah so we decided would write I would look it over and participate in the writing except the cat so he would as soon as the was over he would say and take he had a pad hidden there where he was standing and take notes and after next few days I would sit with him and we would make a han from but we had a sh what to call it to write I claimed my time that you can't write that that's that's like a copyright of >> Mhm. That's why we started writing. It was a new invention and the way it started really was funny. We didn't want we were afraid to do it. So we made and put it out the tables where no one saw and everyone saw laying around. Who wrote it? No one knew. I have to say he's in he was pushing a lot of it. He said you have to give it out because we were afraid you know and that's when it started. And funny thing is there were a long time we didn't have any reaction from the Reb. We didn't know that is happy and not happy till it came this was it came I believe and then the said that couldn't see we wrote sobbed how could you say such an expression criticized it. But to us, the Reb recognized, acknowledged this thing. So we're so happy. >> They say, "Yeah, all even all press, even negative press is good press, right?" >> But in this case, it's the Reb recognized that he should mention it. The Reb should say that there's a there's a found mistake. You say just the actual thing you can't say that it's blind because it's not like a nice >> Yeah. So you could say something like that. But to say the word blind that didn't like. >> So that was that was a a recognition and an issue that doesn't mean everything it says there is right. >> By the way, you didn't ask whatever you understood that you got you need to do this under under the table. >> Right. And that came the way they were writing down this came from then and that's when we started that took a long time. It took but >> I'm saying it's it's a the cloud the whole world is indebted to you because otherwise they wouldn't be an all these years. Yeah. Maybe some private people wrote for themselves but these are official anas came out. Yes. That is the truth. That's the truth. Whatever it is that later people other people started helping and they started that's how it developed. But when we started it was yeah it was >> so what was the whole so from that you got involved in the >> no I was involved and I was involved in and then when the stopped went on a few times the made was then was then the stopped what happened this used to send out every speak to different had I don't know 10,000 addresses to send out to make what do they do they would send out copies of old only so came to by that time there was certain weeks there was nothing to send out everything was sent out already so it was >> who was then the were involved was and Jacobson >> back then all from the beginning >> from the beginning >> not from the beginning from all of those I'm talking from now from the time I'm talking from so wrote to the rabb that maybe the reb would be so reb agreed so a few weeks during the year of reb was and then when the year was over there was nothing else to send out so to the maybe the reb will start being and the reb agreed so would write That's where from Hay to the to test came out weekly can trace him and then became this and then the Reb stopped and he spoke about the Bangan and the Reb stopped so B there was no look that came out so a few of us got together and we said you know what for him it's not possible that he should work on because the Reb expects other things from Let us let us be able to do >> at that time it wasn't known as that name came after before when it was printed all the years it was known >> no all years it was known that encyclopedia that's what it was called just like encyclopedia that's what it was known as but when they printed it the said encyclopedia they were talking gave it the name but we said but the Let's see. Maybe we could do it. So, we had three of us. >> Who Who was it was? Was was some was there like a someone instigating you your to do it >> on your own? >> We on our own. So, it was uh the three people who were the two that were gashm like the two I mentioned before and then three of us Shapiro and label captain Oliver Scholam and myself sat down. We said let us try to do it. We didn't expect it because he was so so good that anybody could take his place. Let's try. So we sat down. We said let's prepare a few and give it to the and see what the reb will say. Then there was a whole vik. Which language should it be or Hebrew? >> I know that you like the Hebrew, right? >> I Yeah, I pushed for it. >> I remember when I learned in Miami discussing this with you. >> Yeah. And I I pushed others also I gave my I I >> Why did he feel that? What's why did he feel most people don't understand Yiddish? That's number one. Even then now certainly most people don't understand Yiddish they certainly don't know Yiddish they translate the translations good and another main thing you ever see a safer written a serious safer in Yiddish is written is in Yiddish. Funny, it's funny. I I just saw a few weeks ago, I'm not going to say which I was I was in some other place in another sh and I opened up their and I saw Yiddish. I was surprised. So yeah, the concept does exist maybe. Yeah, >> does maybe exist and there was but no one looks no one could think it's a safer. We're talking about being you say but people don't look at it that way. So no one will even look at it. So we did it. We didn't even ask the Reb. We did it in years later. The Reb was asked at one point. >> So why why did have a preference for Yiddish? Because >> no it started before all the were Yiddish were always in Yiddish. So all the writing is it continued that way. No special reason. Years later the Reb was asked which one he prefers and the Reb answered these two words. So that's why we went back and forth. But that time we decided that we're going to try. So we sat down, we prepared not so happy before that it was given in last minute. last minute it pressured him to do it and it was you know >> so we said let's give it in early >> you wanted the basically at the should know this is serious at this time >> right and we wrote it settle that we this we wrote our names we are doing this and we're asking to be m this was this should be and would have comments lale we gave it in the middle of the summer nothing happened the didn't answer didn't say anything so we didn't know till it came tish it wasn't on the Gaya because braces we still got time came and the reb so busy this and that we didn't expect so we didn't know what's going to happen came at night so we were quite a few times when the reb was happened after he finished before till that's the time was so we thought maybe so I remember all of us all five of us standing upstairs and next to the room waiting for before till Rab groner would go in maybe he'll come out comes comes out from the Reb nothing. So we decided that by all five of us are going to get together and we're going to go to get kosha our presence should be seen by the which will be like a reminder. So he went by looked at each one gave and he gave I don't remember to sham Jacobson or he gave it to I one of them he gave a bottle he used to give bottles to theim he gave it and the reb gave it to him and he said with a big big smile. So we were sure. Okay. This is after we came to 770 early waiting for Rabbi Groner to when the Reb comes. He goes in right away for came and went in came out. Nothing. It was already Wednesday. I think it was Tuesday. So if it's going to come out for Shabas, it's late. So we didn't know what to do. So we had a hold sha at the end came out. We decided to do a little bit. This is what we did. We took made a copy of braces again just of braces and wrote on a little note saying this this is what we are printing for shabas and we're asking the reb to mia. It was a big risk because the reb could be very we giving up pale a few hours later came up and that's how it started and then it came then came then was two years and then it stopped again then it continued later I left Miami but uh I left the m middle and I was writing some of the from Miami so that's not is a separate issue and this is look at the it's another issue It's different is just writing down the fab and look at the is dealing communicating with theb writing and the is asking and answering and back and forth. It was special and then those that stayed and kept on writing the later was and that's for all the years later >> they did it till >> so once >> in the middle I was also a little bit invol I mean I was involved from far but I wrote some a few not many very few I wrote even those >> I think I think I heard from you once that you when you went on you said that it's you could be involved is that is that is that >> I didn't say like yeah but I I that That was in my mind. Yes. >> In your mind? >> No. No. I maybe I probably said it. No, but not officially to the Reb or anything. I didn't >> That was whatever. >> I said it. Yeah. To the to the Vad. >> Your was for the Yeshiva. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> To start the Yeshiva. >> Yeah. Yeah. What was the at that time the only it was only um was only like there was only it was only >> only plus one the first year there was another ber besides the ever sent 11 and was one local that joined >> and it stayed like that there was only >> yeah for this but not so long not After that, there was one B who learned in New York and wanted to come. I asked the Reb if he could take him. Actually, whenever I asked the Reb, I didn't write every little thing to the Reb. I used to write to but everyone knew that if you write to him, he'll give it to the Reb, but I didn't have. So, the Reb said, "Don't take him. You're not here to be a competition." This is the second year. >> This was the maybe it's the middle of the first or the beginning of the second. >> But there were there were people that came the second year. >> Later they came after I was in I went up to the for >> when are you talking about them? No, I'm not. >> Oh, so I'm this was like that first year. So I asked the about taking this other the Reb said don't don't be competition. You're not >> this was the middle of the winter. Then for Dutch voice I went to New York and I went into and I asked the Reb the whole reason the Reb wrote because it's competition what happens if that whole of wants it that they should come then they said then you could take it that's taking but there weren't a lot >> not a lot then came more or whatever that's >> one of them was actually >> yeah I don't second year. >> I think the second year. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Very interesting. So, so and the the was like um like how did work then at that that time? It was like you had and you wrote it into the >> right that everybody was like all were like that. >> Were there a lot of people were there a lot of people going on? >> Not that but those that did go wrote to the some people asked the Reb where should he go? The Reb said that's not how I do it. So I'll choose which one or maybe I'll add another one. But usually would choose. So here also I had a few ats and I wrote something and as the mas he said okay so then go go to Miami. >> But you knew you knew that is the only like is what what you're doing. >> Yeah. >> I'm trying to figure out how how it will work then in in those years. >> What should be when when you were I'm saying I don't know uh stay in New York. I was I wanted to go for sure. But it has to be that's fit. Everyone has their I can't become especially then come I spoke English but I couldn't give a speech in English. I mean I was had nothing to do with all these things. So I came to university college or something like something like that. So I knew that this this field would be more fit. So that's why I looked for this field. So you wrote to the hat that were connected to this type of field another place about this whatever but all the in the type of thing not in like a kabad house or doing that >> among is brought to you by we live in a chaotic world a world where for us we do not have the ability to hear and see the on a daily basis yet we know that the is very much with us and is alive and thriving more than ever before. One needs to only tap into it. Provides you and your family with the tools necessary to tap into all of this. Whether it's the monthly magazine, the way it all began, whether it's their hair books, their hair online content, and so much more, men, women, and children throughout the world benefit and use these tools on a daily basis. 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But there were some uh there were some of your wanted them to stay in New York, right? >> Yeah, there were some Yeah, he told me he asked the a year later also about going to the Reb says if he does his job he does in New York >> in important you have to educate isn't that also if everyone will go on and there be nobody to be and then ain't going to have so that's was important concerns. >> It's part of >> part of Yeah. >> So, so let's backtrack a little bit. When when you were a bak by by the um it sound I I remember a story you said once that something about you wrote to the bunch of wrote to about the [Music] >> it's one of those things I don't like to talk about. Oh, I don't I don't remember that. I remember talking about that. I don't I don't remember if it's >> around it. Yes. But directly not. It's >> what >> I'm saying is I I don't remember the story 100%. But what I take from that story is that there was like a certain you were right next to the Reb the entire time saying like like any >> story came through a mistake. That's not a serious story. No, it happened. But it was somebody by mistake didn't understand. Right. about just on the gender. was sitting and talking but >> because then made the >> so said maybe we have the so we said you know what let's so we took a piece of paper and someone wrote down can we drink mashk or something like that so someone of was standing there took the paper he took this came over to a guy walking this and gave it to him and the guy gave it to whatever it was was it's a mistake and no one when he came back he said yeah I just gave you what anyway but that's a it wasn't pleasant >> that does show >> that does show that the connection but yeah but this was a not not a pleasant thing that happened there whatever all the different things that came out of it I'm saying that in the later years there was like a big it was a big crowd and this big am but in those years there was like a certain like uh closeness that the Baham had. I mean there weren't so many >> able you were able to feel close to the Reb in a personal level. I remember that's what you felt when you went out of I remember many times I felt that way but everybody else who went in for weeks after you were out and you would stand there by know what feeling went through your mind this is my you felt because you were in all alone you got that feeling and it stayed with you for a long long a personal connection then when writing it's another type of personal connection because like you know you you write questions and you write and this I even tried this is I was already married obviously then so there were all kinds of shas in the certain in the sh whatever writes this god back and forth, back and forth and the shog whatever it is that's so I was working on a and I thought here's a gagite. So I wrote up a whole page with a shila asking the rebba on and from the answer of that shila you would see what the reb holds of the g that's that question what to do I thought it'll be a so now like this from the reb no one got here it'll be so it's a page for itself so we gave him the and this was a page attached to the with and I was waiting the killian and What's the Reb answer which because it was a very I was in we were learning these and it was very g and he gave out that page also with a pen made pencil a line the whole page and that's it >> the knew what was going on >> I'm sure >> he didn't answer that way just crossed out the whole thing and that's it >> when he went and you're do you ask the rabbis like >> depends if you had what to ask I mean sometimes you ask whether it's a problem or did you >> well one of the practical things was when I went there for my 18th birthday so then you started putting on film when you became 18 film everyone would ask no one would do that's so I went in and I settle I wrote I'm asking the reb if I should start putting in film and the reb when he's reading the settle after he finished he said about yes I went in a few weeks before my birthday because I went to and my birthday is the middle of the summer so I would go the last before the birthday so before so when the rebba said I should start I asked the should I start right away or should I wait till I become So the rebar the better. >> Yeah. The better because we know that the Reb even already wrote when you have the the stories that the Reb told in the middle of Shiva of the Fredb. So one of the things he said spoke about the four pairs of film. The Reb told him to put on four film and the Reb uses a lotion a strange lotion in the lotion is he was afraid you have to do what's there be afraid of but these you don't have to to do that extra I was afraid but the told him to do it and he bought film for him and there's a big order there and the words that the said that the times you have to put on a the whole that how you call it yes it must be the importance of putting film and then he write and he brings then the rebb writes that it's a that you don't start putting on right away in other words the rebin expressed themselves at everybody should put every time the miser he didn't change the till 25 years later that's whenever spoke put him he spoke they start putting everyone should put on for but then it wasn't so and when people would ask theb they say that sometimes the would not say yes mostly did I know from one that the asked him how often do you go to the mikvah so he answered he didn't go so often but he's not a stupid ber so he tells the I take upon myself from now on to go every day. So the said I don't mean every day. I mean Monday, Thursday, Friday and shabas and any other day you have but this could was a condition for putting in. >> So u it's interesting saying I I think today people you know every day it's part of the thing but you're saying from the it sounds like it's Monday the same way. I mean look at the you know that's one one of the three it should be every day but there's a letter from the where he writes that didn't go every day was the to go to the mikvah nowadays not why shouldn't you go but these words Monday Thursday and she says I just wondering when where do you get the ining how do you know before dinging that you can get is maybe learning. I don't know exactly the mis maybe. >> Yeah. And and did you ask your sometimes I asked sometimes he on his own he said he told me once in cup and you should have palp in your mind in case you'll be in a place where there's no you should be able to think that >> the ang >> this was without you asking anything >> this is without me asking no could be it was I didn't ask about this but behop That's what he that's what he said >> that that was a unique thing that didn't tell other other >> right like there's a standard he would tell every first of all and then he would say to some people he would add and some people I guess it depend on what they wrote Some people he added that that was the standard. Then everybody else sometimes he added different specific words that were sham but the whole going into was a special experience. Not only the going in the actual going into but this whole thing of making to go in was something the the less you could tell on for a week before you could tell he's going to be more serious and learned better and came to say and it was a different different you you felt it what you see in You could see by you could see before the was so so special later when there's no said that is good but it's harder to feel that way when you went in privately you again like I said in the beginning there is things which are true but the shabam is doesn't relate to it so fast the goof it's true he says come You have to feel the wrote someone wrote to the Reb was like that and used to speak about wrote is even better than because it's a cloud >> other people >> other people but that's that's true us the feeling is not the same and again like the story with the goof you feel If you touch touch it, so you went you felt different. You felt you made it was certain feeling you were in a higher and even were not so but this was something that everyone knew that's one of the things that comes to that you feel. So even before time was something you remind yourself and now you don't have it was a such a feeling I don't want to use the word sad but the sad feeling >> this this was a discussion before gamas the people would have it today >> yeah there's no this and it stopped already in I don't know whenever years it stopped first stopped only for then stopped later for evening the light even for mention I mean it stopped had it stopped because it couldn't be the crowd became so big it's impossible you should have who's going to go I mean how often how muchb used to be three times a week the left became two times a week >> didn't theb say that it's because people are not using >> yeah the would not stop because of the that's for sure but I'm just saying I'm saying but not what the reb said I'm saying but that's wait but the people are not So how could they how could be all the people go in? So you're saying already before there was this that needed to happen of you know you don't have the same access that people and it's not the same >> also when the mood stopped people felt that way >> and start only then stopped later it was a certain feeling when everything when the ning stopped everyone else had like a let down it was some kind of time of herish that you had was different ways some things serious something was more there are certain times of the year bal was special is special but this is something that continued but those things did not so continue >> on the other hand though the as the years went on there was so much more theans became much more often much more longer the dollars and then the later years that was a sick every other day there's a second of the week >> right so that is true but I have to tell you this is maybe every person has his most feeling in the time when he was in 770 learning of 770 by the so by me when we're talking about the years from till the time I left those are the main years and whatever happened I might have came back later and this No question about it. But what's stuck into your heart is those years and you hear some talk about the years the mess which is true but but I'm just saying honestly this is that you're there and you were soaked in the you lived with 24 hours a day seven days a week a whole year. So that's what stayed later on you did other thing came here Miami this with all kinds of it's a so I'm sure yeah the other years there were different yeah other which were much more than before but um we're talking to a person who was more then than later later we was more from far this was mamish clothes being mameish part of it >> so so for the people today they have everything all all of the Yeah. In other words, they have everything and everything in a way because you got to work on getting to it. So you could get you could work on everything. All the that happened throughout all the years and different of the Yeah, you could have it all. But on the other hand, you don't have it pale with you have it. And to feel that way, you got to be more like a ka to these feelings. Especially if you want to understand it, if you want to just have a is one thing and but if you want to bring down and people do have and there are people who have questions people have questions how is it and it's I can tell you the biggest is that 30 years after and you have and turn the state this is beyond understanding what did people say gim the worst things will fall apart but you know what the reb started this whole thing I'm looking I tried to explain everything so because he doesn't understand this goof there is push it set it up in such a way it's going to I'll 100%. So, so even though most of the everything had in it so it's also but it's >> and I don't know if you know pure >> not in the in the >> not that no taking it's a lot of them taken from there I le it's called IM because my name is le so it's Ira le and rashas of Imra is the rash is the gimatri I mean of my name and my father's name. >> Okay. >> So it worked out. Anyway, so we got to talk in there is everything has I mean so I want to just say in there's a a concept of that means when you start a fire just like when you shoot an arrow you could trying to how come I'm hurt the guy over there. I didn't do anything to him. I pushed the trigger here. I shot the arrow here in my shoes I could do what I want from whatever happens there it's as if you did it same thing by if someone starts a fire one of the dal of mik is if you start a fire someplace and the fire goes on for three days and burns down someone's house you are responsible to pay why are you responsible to pay because it's all on your on your account so we have the famous based on is how could you light candles Friday if everything that happens by a fire it goes on that it's happening later and you're doing it so shabas it's burning and you're lighting shabas so the answer is it's not that as it's doing you're doing it whatever is done later is in the beginning so when you light the fire it's everything that's going to be later that's why you're >> so He said if the Reb started a move started what he did and in such a way that he started the ball rolling in such a way that that continues by itself it's like the guy who starts a fire I'm just wondering that if a person starts a fire and dies and the fire continues in other words is his estate to pay because by fire whatever is happening later is included in your fire. So you made a fire that happens 3 days after the guy passed away. So according to the way whatever we're doing now is not it's all included in what theb put into us in thebog he put in all the happy now is all what he did. It's like the Reb has started the fire and the fire is continuing. So I feel perspective. This is nothing to do with this. It's all it's all sobb is doing it now. It's all what what he did then is irresponsible for what he's doing now. So it's so this has brought it to because people do wonder how do we say the after we don't see the but still that's the dean the dean is that if you started doing people actually you know as the shist mainly not in the light but that their first years the reb would choose which should go who chooses now on the holiday decides so that The answer is it's but besides that started this whole motion and this whole movement of how to do it and it's all following what he did. So it's all on his head. So he's the still. So that's what we think. But getting back to that's what something has to go through people's mind. It's not just when we say you know just still here. You can say what you want. You gota so if you're in so there's the mile of but that needs you have to know what the is all these things >> when you see like everything that's happening today that that labavich is accomplishing there's so there's so many yinyan that was barely done before giml Thomas I actually remember I heard you speak once it was a year of hackle few years I know this cycle the last cycle I think you said you said that everyone's cocking and hackle I don't remember people being so into it before and now people are into it more so the reb was introducing all these concepts and and at a rapid pace you know is introducing multiple of them the time of time a few of them were done at one shot you know is doing multiple things and then we're still unpacking it right now >> what you use the good word the rebba packed it in and we're unpacking it so it's all the reb's doing No, I feel practically speaking it's all the no no new things all these new things are included ali it becomes more big becomes more mudgish more stressed but it's all because of the that's his credit >> and that's his doing saying started off that we're going to make I'm saying every there there's there's a that's a nuclear bomb you know included in there that I'm saying that this is infinite to to accomplish uh to bring Mashiah. I'm saying this is this is this is everything saying there's so much in there. By the way, when you're mentioning the the Reb said after you so I heard from somebody a good good word that in the first word of the first mime is hinted till base is the first letter of Alf is the first letter of a No. So is is and the is so the already put down. So it's all included that way. But it's even more than we know it says when it says whatever all the years later are going to say come came all was included that all the included in the we have but nevertheless that means but it's included but I'm saying now is more than that it's more included more you could push it see that the Reb said this, the Reb said that now we're utilizing what the Reb said even though then it was not utilized so much. So it's the Reb doing it. This is all understanding of what it means that the Reb is still with us and the Reb is doing that's that's the that's deeper. But I'm saying even for the people that don't take it even for somebody who's not a that doesn't you could explain it to him. But we got to work on it. That's one other word. Nothing. >> There's also besides working on the connection to the Reba, there's also another crucial part of it that have to fulfill the Reb's. I'm saying we have we have to we have we have to be the to to to do to do this like >> yeah we can't just stress that the is here and the stress is cautious musher it's cautious like there's a lot in the quot also years later it's cautious this connection the famous joke of this rabbi everyone knows this joke that the rabbi came in a new rabbi so the first shabas he was speaking about the mitzvah shabas after shab the comes to him says this is not for these people don't talk about okay next shabi spoke about kash after talk about film finally he tells the president so what should I talk about what talk about talk about what start talking about talk about that's if you do it that's got to talk what you got to talk you got to talk about the claw also you got to be masid at also So I said before you got to know tell somebody what is the meaning of an shamac how do you explain it so you got to go into that I don't think now is the time for this I don't think you should go into it unless you think it is and I would give some some explanation but I doubt that people it's not that you have to learn whatever >> okay so uh we have uh the mandate we have the you know we know we have the facts we have the mandate of what needs to be done and uh one of the does on order is strengthen theras and that's on in in and of itself but then obviously it has to lead to to actually fulfill the fulfill the's wishes and Yeah, >> it's easier said than done, but it's not it's in other words, it's not impossible. It's possible and we got to do it. And there are so many people that do it. That's the best thing when like remember he went I went please when he moved from Australia to New York. So the Reb told him to fang with the so I heard from himself. He said he asked the reba bring about and the rebba said tell stories not of tell stories ofim why because if you tell about the rabb did this great thing that doesn't affect me how that could do it tell stories of thatim were like me and you and all they could do it they did it oh that helps I'm saying also you see so many so many tak can do with two things that theb says and it's it's possible and even though it's already and I'll say better it's the year 2025 let's use the English calendar that shows even more the how low it is and nevertheless there are people and it's in proportion it's a lot there are still people who are but you know how big how much there is that are involved in all the right things and do what the Reb wants look around all so you got to be one of those that's what you have to think about everyone that's think not about if I'm holding at it know the story the Reb told famous story everyone knows the story but this huge told a story and then mentioned a name who wrote him the story wrote him a story because it wasn't printed yet. He sent the Reb the Galis we call it of the Reb repeated what he wrote. He wrote that he heard by Alter was a person who is he was a person that he was and when he got older and he couldn't do the job so they wanted to fire him the rebab said don't fire just him being in yeshiva people should see his se is enough worth the money but he told overshall there was once a ishu is a small village the small village of people were there mamish didn't know anything peasants he didn't so it was one guy they hired to be a malama to the children He was the gan salam. He was the whole they couldn't even read Hebrew. So if anybody got a letter that was written in Kadesh or in Yiddish, they would ask him to read it. So once a guy, one of these guy got a letter, he couldn't read it. He went to the and he's reading it and in the letter it said that this guy's father who gave him the letter passed away. So the guy fainted. So the alter asked why did he faint? He couldn't see what it says in the letter. He heard a cliche. He heard it from the guy. The guy who read it saw the letter himself. Why didn't he faint? Oh, and the Reb for months used to mention this. So that's what that's what I said. What I'm saying now is not to anybody. I'm trying to convince myself that's the truth. If this is considered like a let's consider that what's abran to sit down and tell people Don't threaten so they sit home. Speak to yourself. If a guy speaks to himself at home, they'll take him to go to the crazy house. So you got to have people listening with it yourself. I'm talking that's serious and that's what has to be before and there has to be. It's not enough to be has to be beforehand. You have to prepare yourself is very very important. sometimes says to a mitzvah has more influence if more effect than the mitzvah itself and if the time is not limited I could just say where I felt it once I told this over many time but I'll say it again was one year when I came from Miami to the was giving leak I was sitting my brother's house my brother Sha was a son-in-law of Rabbi Mandel Nissa Mandel and Rabis Madell was there so I sat in the house talking to talk to Then I tell him I have to leave. I looked at my watch. I want to get in line to get le. So he says to me, "Don't worry. I'm also getting le tonight. I won't have to stand in line. You come with me and we'll walk in." I stayed. We stayed. Finally, it's time to go. So we came some 70. There's a long long line down Easter park. But he went straight to the front door, knocked on the door and he asked, "Who is this?" I said, "This Rabbi Mel." Oh, they opened the door right in front where the Reb was standing. He I don't know why, but he was giving leak inside. Usually sukis he gave but suk I don't know. He was inside. So he walks in, I walk in with him because together we walk in straight to the Reb and the Reb gave leak and we walked away. And as we walked away, I think to myself, what just happened? If you stand in line for an hour and you're waiting and you're anticipating, you're getting ready. Then you got to the Reb. Oh, finally you got this. I didn't prepare. Didn't go. I got a piece of cake. So I thought to myself, that no, no, you got to stand in line. I'm saying understood the is that mitzvah the mitzvah itself is more important than if you imagine person makes doesn't do the mitzvah it's going to but when you do both the has more influence on the person so before gimlas you also have to think otherwise gimlas comes gim Thomas goes and the calendar and it's it's not like that so that's what you have to think >> okay thank you very much Rab Shapiro and uh we should do And not only but also the days afterwards has to be from >> that's the whole just like said that doesn't finish whatever has to be later but if you make on the day it has more chance that you'll fulfill it. Okay. [Music] Amen. Amen.