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Ep. 63: The CIA of Lubavitch with Rabbi Avrohom Shmuel Levine
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In this episode, Reb Avraham Shmuel Levine of Eretz Yisroel discusses his family’s Litvishe background, including his grandfather’s position as a rav near Yekaterinoslav and his interactions with the Rebbe’s father, Harav Levi Yitzchak. He describes how his father came to learn in Tomchei Temimim and eventually escaped from Russia, as well as his own birth and upbringing in New England and his years in the yeshiva at Bedford and Dean. Reb Avraham Shmuel recalls his early encounters with the Rebbe, his journey to learn in Kfar Chabad, the yechidus he had beforehand, and the letters he received from the Rebbe while he was there. He also shares memories of the famed mashpia Reb Shlomo Chaim Kesselman and the profound influence he had on him. Upon returning to America, Reb Avraham Shmuel unexpectedly became involved with Ezras Torah, eventually serving as secretary of Agudas Harabanim—a position he held for many years, until moving to Eretz Yisroel. Through this role, he developed close relationships with many of the leading non-Lubavitch Rabbanim of the previous generation, including Reb Moshe Feinstein, Rav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin, Rabbi Simcha Elberg, Rav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik, and Reb Gedalia Schorr. At the same time, he served as a discreet Lubavitch liaison, keeping Rabbi Hodakov and the Rebbe informed and working behind the scenes to advance many of the Rebbe’s initiatives. He shares story after story of fascinating encounters and the remarkable things he was able to accomplish—including how Reb Moshe Feinstein came to be mesader kiddushin at his wedding and had a yechidus with the Rebbe during that visit. This is only a glimpse of a fascinating episode filled with history, personalities, and firsthand memories. Listen and enjoy!
Featuring:Shmuel
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Auto-generated transcript. Not time-synced to the video.
He says good morning.
Good morning.
How are you? Says fine. So the first
thing says to him, "How did you like it
yesterday?" She says, "What do you mean
yesterday?" She says, "Oh, what are you
talking about? What an what kind of
impression there was? I was had a suffic
if I should make a
that you make when you see 600,000."
He says, "And they're all his."
>> As we enter the new year, secure your
family's daily stuck with Karen Hash
founded by the Reb in 1953
under Israel. Kashana ensures that every
single day of the year, including
that given in honor of Shabas, will be
given on your behalf. that I've urged
everyone to enroll every family member,
men, women, and children by contributing
for each day of the upcoming year. It's
the ultimate way to draw down continuous
brahas for you and the entire family.
Head over to keranhashana.com
right now and sign up on behalf of your
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I'm Yasi Cayman. Welcome to among
an ongoing faban about life as aid our
vibrant connection with the rebba and
inspired living shaped by the way he
teaches us each and every day
shalom rabbi lean how are you shalom
>> okay thank you so much and all the way
from
appreciate it
>> amen
Um so I would like to begin um
who is 11 which lean where do you come
from? Where are your parents from? Start
like that.
Coincidentally I'm a usually living as a
leyan.
Anyway
>> I bumped into I bumped into Rabi Bar
from the library.
>> Yeah.
>> Yesterday. And I said one second I'm
interviewing Rabbi 11. Are you related?
is like, "No, but what we have in common
is that I'm not a ley and he's not a
cayenne.
>> I am a kayan. He's not a
>> You are a kay."
>> Yeah, he's not a
>> he he's not a Leian. He is a K, right?
Yeah. Sorry, I got it wrong. Okay, go
ahead.
>> Anyway,
well, actually, I originate from a very
literature family. My grandfather, my
father's father was a Musm from Paul
Shapiro from Valen. He was arrived in
three different cities in Russia and
Bellarus and Whitewash at that time in a
place called Marupul Marup Vazme
and what is the I forgot the third one
Marupul
anyway he was there and he was
incarcerated because at this time of the
ankid with the you know you weren't
allowed to uh disseminate and and learn
Torah in public or in private. It's like
in the time of the fed.
And he said that as he told the the the
officials there from the he said as long
as people want to learn and I'm
cannot forfeit my duty to teach them
Torah and I will teach him Torah and for
that he was incarcerated and I think he
died in prison. is at first uh his feet
decayed. They had to amputate both of
his legs and that was first Mr.
for for now but before that he was
the chief rabbi of
can't I can't pronounce that name
>> used it used to be I meanlav
at that time was okay so he was probably
>> the rabbis's father
>> yeah and he was a chief rabbi means that
he had under his jurisdiction
the villages or the small cities around
him and one of those was I think Marupal
where my grandfather was. So from time
to time my grandfather would come to his
house to discuss communal affairs
and stuff like that. and he would stay
at his house for a day or two and vice
versa when Relevik would go visit
Marupal he would stay at my
grandfather's house.
It's funny that although he was a
liter and he was a mag it was like the
like today like today he was you know
>> I think the said there's no misnagom
today.
>> Yeah. Yeah. But at that time there was
he was
and he always used to tell me your
grandfather although he was he was a
literature
but he was a honest person and the is
that that he once came back my father
told me he once came back from a visit
from from
he says he says that I think he says
that his wife
my my brother my father had a sister
Leia and she and he came back and he
said to to his wife he says you know we
we should start thinking about's older
son Ba
you know what I want to bring out is
that although he knew he was
and he's a little but you know he he
recognized the greatness of the reb even
at that age I think he was 19 years old
at the
But he recognized his greatness even at
that age.
>> Anyway, what happened was that now it's
known that Bisha Masmid would go around
from town to town to I think he was a
Shadar and
>> and he would also try to get Bam to go
come to
that time.
So it was I think my father was it was
after Bitz I think 15 years old I'm not
sure you know that that bracket
and
it was a Utus live that it was that Mas
came to
wherever that was Marupul or Yasmin and
it was
so
and he was in the shul of my grandfather
which was not
but he nevertheless he fained with the
with the congregants there
and
he said I don't know if he took a lot of
mashk at the time and all that he said
to my father you have to come to
you have to you should come to it would
be like
that's like to take out a diamond from
from the mud something like that. Now my
grandfather was I did this kiss was in
the other room learning Gabara just
kissed him and he heard that my father
told me he didn't like it but it passed
you know he didn't like it that that way
anyway
Masman persuaded my grandfather to send
my father to
and my grandfather said in in Eison I
would want you to go to Slabotka or to
one of the other or whatever it was at
that time, you know, for the literacy.
But since now it's the war time and it's
dangerous and all that. So go to
I just can't learn and if you know how
to learn I don't know but
and so that's why and he came to that's
you know he came to to
he was there years and he
Kakov and these underground yeshivas at
that time and he was there until
194.
Oh, there's an interesting thing.
There's one time that
my father says it's the Rebish Satan,
but he he was a young child at that
time. So, I think he got mixed up with
with Reblavic. Anyway, whether it's
Reblavic or the Rebition of Satan, my
father says he once came he once came to
the shak's time and he was there and he
came to sh and there was a
>> to his father's show
>> to his father show right
>> and
there was a briset that morning and the
members they didn't know anybody else
they knew the ro so the mabad they were
my grandfather sandos
So he said no give it to you he rejected
it and he says no give it to either or
the reb whoever it was you know one of
those two so that's
it that was a nice bit you know coming
from somebody from
>> right right
>> anyway
so um at one time this was in 19
in 46 at that time when people when
would go out from Russia through forge
passports. You probably know that that
>> the story with the shalon and
>> Yeah. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Right.
Right. The shalon forge passport.
>> The great the great escape.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And uh they went to Lmberg
first. So it was a couple of weeks
before that shalom was
he wasn't registered to be there. What
happened was Anku caught my father
and they tortured him. They knocked out
14 teeth. They tortured tortured him
very much. They said
>> 14.
>> Yes. And they said
>> How many teeth do you have?
>> They have more than that but most of it.
and and and and
they told him that the reason we we
arrested you is that we know we know
that you know and we're looking for
certain people gave him a list of people
among the ones who met and oh and and
and others from you know
that time we know we're looking for them
now we know you you you know where they
are you're affiliated with them we're
giving you two weeks. Two weeks to come
back and tell us exactly where they are
and if not we're going to shoot you and
don't think you'll be able to escape
because you'll be you'll be followed.
My father told me he went out of there.
He was sweating at night. He was crying
and he's not going to be Malin. How
could he you know
somebody else? And he said he said like
he said I think
if he gets out he saves him from there
he'll be saying he'll say every day
he'll say the whole something like that.
He made some kind of an ed because I
think that was it because I rem as I
remember my father he would every day I
would see him saying till.
So uh so what happened was that he came
to he he already was married and my
mother was pregnant with me at that time
and he went down to the shalom and he
hopped into one of those and they looked
at him. he wasn't registered and they
were afraid that he came to to sort of
like spy on them and they wanted to
throw him out and he said I'm not I'm
not moving from here. The story I was
told by he was there at the time
he was there at the time and he was very
adamant. He said I'm not leaving here
until this day he doesn't I mean he
never knew how he he escaped because he
was told he was being followed. Okay,
that's that's the end of the the period
of uh Russia.
>> So that's how he got to to the United
States.
>> Okay, he got the United States. Then he
went to Ellis Island like everybody
else, you know. And at first he went to
Boston. I learned by
Foggelman
Phil Gordon in Worster. Worster first
was in Boston and then in Chelsea place
called Chelsea. From there he went to
Worcester and I was in first grade or
kindergarten there. So you were born in
America.
>> No, I was born I told you I was born in
in in Austria. That was on transit
because Okay.
>> Like in the in the DP camp.
>> DP camp. Exactly.
>> And I came and then he got a job in
Louisville, Kentucky.
And when I came by mitzvah and all that,
it was he couldn't. It's not like today.
I hear there's yeshiva there. There
yeshiva there today. But at that time
they didn't have any yeshivas there. And
it wasn't uh it was more modern orth
modern orthodox and I came to m so I
learned a day school there until the
mitzvah and then he sent me to uh to New
York and I was veteran indeed.
>> So you went by yourself as a child.
>> Well he took me
at first he he took me with the
Greyhound bus you know.
>> I'm saying but you were living you
living in the dormatory.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> What year are we talking about? We're
talking about now 196
62 6.
>> Did you see the before then?
>> Oh yeah. I stayed by somebody before
that. I learned in another yeshiva on
the east side before because they didn't
have a place for me. So I stayed by
Mushbah.
He would go from time to time to visit.
They would go to the brick fabbrangans.
He wasn't a baba. He was nardic
and but his wife was a Becken's sister.
So he was acquainted with the with the
Labavish community especially since his
family was Labavich. So the big
fabangans
or you know Tuskisliff he would go from
the east side to Cat Heights at that
time was Albany Terrace or no Avenue.
One of those you know was before the
river started fanging the big fabangas
in 770.
So I remember just still on Kingston
there was those trolley cars you know
the buses
you know. So the first fabbran that I
came that I saw the reb it was before by
mitzvah
before mitzvah he I came and I saw the
reb was I think it was I was 11 years
old in 19
I came in it was the middle of a mimemer
I how do I know because everybody was
standing and that's the first time that
I heard and saw the rebression.
I never saw a thing like that, you know.
I didn't know what that was all about.
And uh it did make impression. I didn't
understand anything. But I still
remember the Reb speaking. I don't
remember what he said, but I remember
his voice and his and it was very very
you know it had it had a an emotional
effect on me at that time.
later on when I started learning the
Bedford.
So, okay. So, I was in
and
we finished Batford in 1966,
1965 actually.
>> You finished like the high school?
>> Yeah. I didn't go to high school. I
learned with I was there was a class
after when everybody went to high
school. Rabbi Talib
gave a class on Sakabas. Every year
another I was there
and um
then in 1965
when I finished Bedford in those days
when you finished Bedford it was like
the
groups were divided into three. Some
went to Montreal for a year or two and
then go to 770.
Some went to Newark for a year or two,
then come to 770. Some went to Quakabad.
Now I I was from those that went to
Quakabad.
Now my birthdays in Tamos. I was in the
in Tamos. But in those days when you
would go
overseas to learn, you would go have a
special with.
So although six months ago as I was inas
when we came from pass after pasha
I went into
again
and
you well I don't want to jump you you
remind me after I tell you about this
what happened at chabas bracius by just
let me finish that you so after shabas
bracious I
I came I went into the Reb for this
and the Reb looks at the settle and I'm
going to he says you're going he says to
me you're going to
say so I want to make a deal with you
write to me every month
and he looks up with me with a half a
smile and he says and I don't mean you
should write to me about the
But tell me, write to me about what
you're learning
and preferably he says
it should be
that's
okay. And that's what I did and I and I
so when I was there the first month of
course I did that. I never expected an
answer but lo and behold I did get an
answer. I did get a reply. The funny
thing is that every time every month
that I sent in sent in a letter, I
always got an answer.
>> And okay, I'm going to come back to that
general don't want to uh forget about a
very interesting anecdote that happened.
So I was bracious before I left. In
those days, they didn't break the the
shoe yet. Now it's my training avenue.
But in those days, that's already after
the second time, they broke the sho
times.
Now before that, the 770 was almost like
dollar, you know, was very very narrow,
was very wasn't as wide as now.
So when you stand by Fan, it wasn't such
a big at that time.
So if you stand in vibr wherever you
stand especially if you're close to the
reb you could always hear if they
weren't singing loud you could hear when
people went up to the reb at that time
they would go up to a reb more
frequently it wasn't like in the last
years only when you had a battle but
that time everybody went over with his
own battle and spoke or or whatever
whatever it wants
and say
so
I remember this distinctly
I don't know if you ever heard there was
a worship Dubinski
he was a mas he was a masculine he was
known to be a mas
>> and I heard him and at that time
the only there was only the contra of
the
of alf
weren't out yet
from
I think just elephant something to
anyway there was I don't remember
exactly I think it was
so
it wasn't printed yet
and I hear him going up saying and he
asked the
when are they going to print the
you know all the
so I remember that distinctly that
anyway I I was in now
before I before I went to I was SW
the my
told me you should know you're going out
there
is an because he didn't send people you
be very yeah he's aid and stay away from
him or else you also become an
I'm a you know a 16 17 year old naive
I'm a naive I don't know from they tell
me that. So I come to
and I wasn't disrespectful.
I would say hello and that but then I
would I would stay I would stay far
away. I wasn't one of his boys you know
that and I didn't have anything tried
nothing to have anything to do with him.
I think it was the second month I was
there that I wrote to the Reb my monthly
letter.
He mentioned something. I asked him a
question about invest.
>> So all the you know all the the
brainwashing that I had beforehand was
doesn't exist and I started with him
>> sometime
>> and I must tell you they made a mistake
about this man you could first of all
you could see it now too see the reason
they were against him they considered
him anif because he didn't send people
to to the rebba he would say before
going to the reb you have to sit and
learn and you know be be
learn migras
And then you can go. You can be
go
you just go
already, you know, do it do it thing.
It's like
that's way I I interpret it. But um but
when I
started speaking with him and getting
close with him, I it wasn't at all as as
they mentioned it because there were
times when I didn't understand something
in a an answer that the Reb
one of the letters of the Reb wrote to
me and I came to him to ask and he saw
it was the Reb's letter. He said, "Just
a moment." He would Well, he went with a
he put on his hat. He went with He had a
scapod on anyway. Put on his hat and a
gartle
and his hat and I think he and he got up
and he looked at it and if it doesn't do
that,
>> right? We also know now that this he was
telling the Bakim not to come was
because told him.
>> Exactly. Exactly. Now, I'll tell you an
interesting thing. I said this many
times and it's you know it it remained
in my mind I remember it very vividly
you see like I said I was there in 1965
I came to in Hebrew it's I came
when I came there there were
kuden
Zagopin
Garitza
who else naval they're older older older
guys today they're already you know
they're older than me and I think
they're in their 80s now but at that
time that was the ka that was by the
reba when I was they came back at that
time kuses would come not on rash I
think it was from PES to you go from PES
to PES they come back after PES
anyway
so
uh when they were there
there was certain I'm not going to say
names but there were certain there were
two bum of that before they went to the
very very attached to
almost like you So they were never by
the reb. So he was like almost like they
they very very attached. They had a year
at all. They weren't all very respected
and they they they swallowed every word
that he said. They would sit next to me
and all that. When they by the
apparently they were also brainwashed.
So when they came back they
like they distanced themselves from him
completely. was a certain group that
would sit all the way in the back and
never you know never never come to him.
Now it was
after that when they came back
and he was he was very perturbed if you
would speak in the middle of his or he
would say every day 7:00 if you would
speak make noise then that really that
they that disturbed him very much and he
would could scream at you and all that
but
these guys were all the way in the back
and they were like ignoring him and his
rubberans and they were speaking amongst
each others and it made a noise cuz
everybody's quiet and you hear he
understood that they did this especially
to demonstrate that they that
they're ignoring him.
First he didn't say anything but then it
came to a point where you know he
couldn't take it anymore. I mean there
was really noisy very noisy and very
disturbing he couldn't take it anymore
and he got up stands up and he looks at
them with tears in his eyes
with tears crying crying and he says
for me what do you want for me how do
you expect for me to be a musher to the
reb to our reb like to the frequ
He meant
he wasn't he was crying in that and then
suddenly
as he saw you know you think he's down
suddenly he he flips and a very angry
tone he starts screaming and then but
one thing I want to tell you no matter
how much you think you're musha to the
rebbit to our rebush to him 10 times
more than you with what I
I'm 10 times more than you are. That was
really something, you know, going back
from crying and then
that's really something. But coming back
to that, you know, since we're talking
about about
Well, actually, I don't know what what
to say first.
Should I go back to the letters or talk
about go back to letters? Okay.
So, like I said, I used to get a letter
all the time.
At that time, the two years that I was
in I was immersed immersed in I was
shabas almost those long ones. People
tell me today, you know, they would sit
there for 45 minutes and they just wait
until I finish, you know, and all that.
And I was really immersed in that
when I started learning
was my
son. He would teach
he was an expert in that
and he's told us that is the subus of of
just like sub has every every
in
you'll find a minuscule in in inubis
so too every Indian cities you'll
And since I wanted to, you know, to see
this and know what I'm talking about,
but
so I decided what the heck. So I I not
public for myself.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. He didn't say he
said
not the whole so the whole I I did that
for myself and every I would finish you
know maybe two pro it's very hard it's
not like a regular so I would finish two
pro and I would write that to the rabbit
and all that
okay so
I remember
when when the the
I think it was
yeah
Zion
that he would send that at that time I
didn't know
but like like I told you I was immersed
I didn't know anything about the outside
world somebody would tell me then that I
would end up in the Knesset or in the
United Nations you
that would be like you know you're
you're out of your mind but that time so
I didn't know anything was going I just
know that was my whole life and that's
when it started and ended
and uh so I remember
the reb sent me a reply
enclosed with the
you know
that's what
So he sent me that m
I didn't know at that time that this was
like a cli I didn't know at that time
that there was a mikt of prote
>> yeah that other people got it at that
time I thought I was was special to me
and I don't remember ever getting
anything from then until now you can
give me whatever you want the biggest
things the biggest greatest things
I to say the word elated I was another
another develop you don't know what that
did to me that like put me cloud n maybe
cloud 20 not cloud it was it was
something you know and of course that
chabak it b the whole thing you know
raim and all then later I found out
there was a pro so okay but still but
that was so you have no idea what that
that may be. Now I tell you an
interesting thing
the it came the six day war
everybody was it was two weeks before
the six day war
the
he comes into this medish and he gives a
clap on you know and he says listen
there's a
there's an order from home home uh home
homeland command home homeront command
homeront command order that we have to
dig graves because there could be
there'll be mass graves because what
because the mass now is
and
anybody who wants to go
to dig the graves have a show if you
want to remain to this learning you can
remain learning of course I remain
learning
and that's what and they they
there were people that went dug dug the
graves telling you this not because okay
you'll see why I'm telling you so two
weeks afterwards it was Monday morning 8
o'clock I remember like today I sent a
postcard to my parents
stamp a postcard, you know, to say
something like I would send every week
or every two weeks. And I went to the
post office at that time to deliver to
to drop off the postcard
and it was 8:00 after
was 7 to 8:30
was you go to mik
was I think 8:30 or 9 or something like
that. But anyway, after Sid, I went to
the postcard to deliver my postcard. And
on the way back, a guy tells me, "Do you
remember who it was?" He says, "Shamata,
did you hear?" He said, "What? What are
you, what do I hear?" He started. So,
what are you talking about? The war. Oh.
Oh. The the war. Wow. So, I that, you
know, so really it caught me. So, I ran
to the mis. came into the what I see is
that everybody's pasting these these
tape on the windows that in case there's
a bomb the the lash shouldn't be spread
out all over
>> shattered
>> shattered right so and then they ded all
that now everybody was at that time you
had
was there was you know the one in Queens
now he was a ber at that And you had
Weinberg. Yeah. Kaplan. You had a lot of
kids that from there. And their parents
of course were worried about it in in
America. And they wrote to the Reb, this
is the
well-known telegram that the Reb wrote.
There's nothing to be afraid of. nothing
to make another person afraid of to
fright. There's no no need to fright to
somebody else.
Okay. I also got a letter or telephone.
What was it? A letter from my mother
saying that come home and we all got
letters. Every American citizen got
letters from the American embassy at
that time that in this and this date any
American citizen here should come to Lud
airport that time it was still Lud
wasn't yet Bengurian airport Lud airport
and there will be a special um planes
going to take us back to United States
and my mother very much wanted I should
go with all that but I was not and the
others were sort of like they were a
little nervous, you know,
on me. It had no effect whatsoever. And
I'll tell you why. Had no effect
whatsoever. I was very very calm about
the whole war. As far as I'm concerned,
I knew nothing was going to happen. Why?
I'll tell you why.
The war was in in June
year.
the orderish order before then and what
is that something like four four months
before okay I wrote to the I want to
come to I wasn't by the reb for almost
two years I want to come for PES I want
to come for PES leave you know come
the Reb told me and the Reb answered
like this he said look
there's going to be a charter here
so there's a lot of miners with the
charter
No, first he said actually the letter is
printed in the I forgot this letter that
I'm talking about. Then then he answered
he said I think it's
I think and he and he says to me there's
first of all
that you know whatever says and then the
says there'll be a charter there a lot
of mileus there's certain advantages
we're going with a charter so do it then
so since told me to come and help I knew
that war is not going to affect me at
all nothing's going to happen to me So I
was very calm you know you're coming for
>> yeah so you know I also didn't have to
have so much
>> it was like here I got a promise from
the so what kind of I did I didn't I
didn't think along those ways you know
it I is when you're you know you're
nervous when you're concerned when
you're you're you're tensed I wasn't
tensed about this
and uh so that was that
Funny point. No.
>> Why did I tell you about the the
um
digging graves?
You see, like I said before,
when he said, he hated it if you made
noise in the middle or talk the middle.
Now although during the war itself there
was no sui yeshiva but the seven o'clock
tany he wasn't he was a matter that war
maybe maybe he wasn't so media who was
there or not but he said it wanted
so we had a had a nice group of people
come and listen to it
the other on the other hand had outside
of the of the room where we were of the
bismetrish.
If you make noise there, you can also
hear it inside. It interrupts it that it
disturbs him inside too. So as he's he's
speaking, he was saying to
went back and forth outside, you know,
you have to go to and that was bothering
him. He didn't know where the was coming
the noise was coming from.
It bothered him after a while
who's making the noise
go into in the in the go bur bury
yourselves in the pits that you that you
that you made that you
>> that was
that was so funny.
>> Okay. Then in then Wednesday the news
came
that they captured the so I remember all
the boys that were with us they started
dancing. They were so happy you know
came in and he gave it over the head. He
said what are you dancing about? What's
there to dance? It's still in the middle
of the war still in the middle of the
war.
You know that was
that's the para. So we finished the para
of of Russia and
>> so you went back to New York whatever
and
>> Yeah. Yeah.
And uh yeah,
I went into
what I remember and that was the first
time that was the first time that I was
there since
I got
that was the didn't see me for a year
and a half already.
>> And how old are you now?
>> I'm old 18 I think 19 something like
that. So, and the Reb didn't see me
since then.
And that's when you, you know, you have
to make
so I I remember like this. We went into
I went into then you still can go in. It
wasn't like later on that you still you
know every every family or every person
individual went in by by himself.
So what I remember is that
he um
when I opened the door and I walked in,
the Reb was in the middle of putting
away uh you know like an envelope in in
his drawer here. He was he was sort of
like bent down like this. And
and as he was doing this, he saw me. He
didn't say it loud, but I I mean I could
hear him I could hear him say put it
like this
sound like this. And then I, you know, I
went and I gave my settle. that settle I
wrote something that I had that was
bothering me about something what
something about with my father was
bothering me something and the Reb told
me he says
look there's a difference between
you know
balabos is more you know there's the
like there's the term and there's
y And he told me that the known was that
was even on even when he was in in
middle of the real
he still didn't affect him whereas the
they were they were isolated from the
world because they could be affected by
that. I mean like told me it's a
difference and all that. Now what
>> there was a difference there's a
difference between
then and then he tells me to look in
something
about that and okay that was that
>> so what does it have to do with your
father that he's a balik
>> he was about at that time yeah yeah and
there was certain things that you know
that I think he should have that you
know it bothered me and when I spoke to
him about it He sort of like ignored the
so I just vented or or
you know I I shared it to the webin you
know
>> saying count me down count me down
>> the is saying not to meddal
>> right exactly exactly
>> okay I went back and then finally you
know after a year I went back I came
back in
Now again remember I'm coming back from
Kabad.
I don't know
maybe I overdid it. I didn't sleep and
all that. So I was very I was unable to
go on on
I call my at that time was summer. I
came back the summer
>> saying you didn't you didn't meet the
the bar of meas because you were in
right. So I my you know I and I had to
and I just came back and overseas and
all that. So um but I had to do
something and my head then was you know
was wasn't like the concentration.
My father had a a friend in as a story
as a story you know the charity
organization. What is
heard as a story as a story is a charity
organizations that helps that helps
organization that helps young light or
people in need with money for
you know they would come to the
it came it was it was very famous
actually that was the only
that they used to make an appeal for in
In 770
there was no other institution outside
outside
institutions
>> that outside that that they made an
appeal for here that they made an appeal
and who was running it.
He was a big po before Raisha. He was
the bra of he was a modas of America
before Ramisha
and he was very very know all the shilas
came to him. He was a galore
and Ezra actually was founded in 1902.
No Ezra was founded by Aud
that was his baby. Easto was its baby.
Easto
Audabon was founded in 1902, the year
the Reban was born.
And a year later, they opened up this
charity and this or this you didn't have
to give back the money
for only mainly mainly for who sat and
learned. That's why it's called Ezra's
Torah. as a story and
I didn't know at the time. So, so
anyway, so this they're on the east side
there's
>> you got a job you got a job for the
summer.
>> So yeah listen so I'm in the I'm there
and
is they when came to America they as a
story came along with him and wherever
the whatever location
would be as a story would be there too.
So in other words when they came they
were on Broadway the first time in the
30s 1930s when they came. So as a story
was also on the second floor in the
first floor was either on the first
floor and they were on the second floor
in the same building
>> in the lower side.
>> Yeah. But then later they went to lower
side to east Broadway. At first they
were on Broadway then they went to East
Broadway 235 East Broadway and Ezra
Stover was upstairs and u was
downstairs.
Yeah.
And that
of as a story one of them there were two
of them.
>> One of them was Rabbi Margolan
father of them Margolan you in Carolina
one in as well you know
>> Virginia Ley in Virginia. Yeah.
>> So and my father who knew him very well
very friendly. So yes maybe you have a
part-time job from my son and all that
says yeah he's come. So my my my thing
would be I would sit there and they they
got requests mainly from
all the I'm going to say names and and
all the you know or not
from
all over Israel requesting assistance
for either they just made a they need
for an apartment you know to help make a
or whatever.
And then the meeting with there would be
a meeting amongst the island the
officers and they would take the the
list of uh the requests and uh they
would decide how much to give. They
would then then I came to implement it.
They gave to me. I would have to write
down the checks and then record it also.
At that time there were no computers. So
everything was on index you know the
index cards like at one time I would
record there. That was sweet. That was
my job. The implementation of that.
>> We enter the month of t and we prepare
for the new year. There's an essential
campaign for every single one of us to
make sure is marked off on their
checklist and that is
the founded hash under
to ensure that every single has the of
giving every single day. Reb explained
that is
the general month that sets the tone for
the entire year and by securing our
daily sodaka right at the beginning we
will be able to draw down continuous
for the rest of the year. There's a few
points to first of all it's for the
entire family. The Reb urge that every
single person should contribute for
their family, men, women, and children
so that everyone in the family is
covered. And the idea is that it's
calculated by the days of the year. You
give a set amount corresponding to the
numbers of days of the year. Whether
it's a dollar a day, 50 cents a day, or
18 cents a day, it's multiplied by the
days of the year. And especially in a
year like this year, which is a leap
year, you have to calculate the days of
the year for a leap year.
And it's a daily thing through the money
is physically dispersed on your behalf
twice a day before shak and before and
before
and when it's actually physically given
encourage everyone to take care of this
as early as possible before so the year
starts with this with the complete take
a minute right now calculate the number
of days of this year count up your
family members numbers and head over to
myanhashana.com.
That's m ke
to secure your daily sedaka and
continuous brais for the entire year to
come. again. I'm coming from
and
and I'm thrust here into this was the
real headquarters of the misnam
unfriendly territory.
>> Yeah. And I was aware of that. When I
came there, I started feeling the
arrows. First of all, I uh when I came
there, they people that saw I was uh on
the barure, they met, you saw I was, you
know, the way I was dressed and all
that. The way I spoke, they started
giving me jabs and they started and I
had to answer. They started saying
making fun of the reb this and other
things, you know, and to me this was a
shock. This was this first time that I
hear these things and all that. And I
was sort of like, you know, says
and I
didn't know. So
I wrote to the Reb and I said this I
can't take it anymore. Um I'm I'm have
to go because if I'm going to answer
them there'll be my nature is not if I
don't answer
so I'd rather you know. So the answer to
me, he said
since we are commanded to distance
ourselves from any
so
remain and keep quiet. So once I get the
uh the confirmation from the reb that
you know I can stay that if I be quiet
it's not if the reb told me that do it
it's not so I I remain okay I remain now
then listen to this story
the president of of of
brehank was the president of of asa was
a very
he was he was
he was a grandchild of the he was named
after him. He was a big
he was he was a ro in cam New Jersey
and he had a golden heart. He had a very
good heart
and he was ready in his 80s and he was
and it's and he liked me very much
because he would always come and he
would come in once a week or once in a
month with a whole regime a whole list
of people that he wants that people came
to him to ask for assistance and he
wants to help that he tells me to you
know to to implement this assistance for
them.
So he would come every time with a rash
and I would do it for him. He loved me
very much because he even came to the
one in 770. So
>> yeah and and he he loved me very much
and he because I was efficient
speed exactly what he wanted. I did
one time this was I think in Davis I
would might I would be there from 9 to5.
So one time I was there, he came 4:30
and it was the first time that I would
stay over when he comes, you know, if I
have to stay till 5:30 or 6
for him. I didn't. But that particular
day, I don't remember what it was. Maybe
maybe it was after I there's something
in 770 I think was going to don after
the theina
passing or well there was some kind of a
thing that 77 I very much didn't want to
miss.
So when it came five o'clock,
I said to Ra,
I said to him, "Listen, I I almost
finished. I finished half, but uh let me
I I'm sort of like in a rush now. I'll
finish this tomorrow morning."
So he says, "Where are you rushing to?"
And he says to me, "Make believe I'm the
Reb. If the Reb would tell you do this,
you would also rush and all that." Now
again
I if I know now I wouldn't reacted like
if I would have known then how this
would affect him. He was already older
man.
And
so he and I said it miss because this
was my life and this were the way I
thought. And I said the reb you the reb
I mean the reb
he exploded and he says he got up and he
was shaking. I was afraid for him. I
thought he was coming.
What? What do you mean? Did you ever
fire me? Do you know I go I know
Gansshas? Tell me any place. I'll tell
you Gshas and all that. Then I looked at
him and I reminded myself of this guy,
you know, the long letter, you know,
>> and I said, "Okay, okay, okay. I'll
stay. I'll stay. I'll stay."
You know,
>> so you got a lot of exposure to the
world.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was really
exposure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now,
okay. So, I stayed over and I did a
favor and you know at the end he came to
we stayed friends. He came to he got a
he got a braha and because these and
this rash was upstairs looking down down
from his window seeing all the came at
that time.
Okay. Now there's one interesting that
happened there. I remember one of my
jobs as a story was like this also as a
story I had a radio program every every
mo shabas wvd right after or before
Rabbi Wrian
it's either after I remember it's either
after re or before
and my job was
>> what was the program
>> the program was to draw funds for as a
story you had a every day every bunch of
jobs you had a different draw come there
to speak on behalf of Torah and ask
people to donate, you know. So my job
would be that during the week to go to
the person that's going to speak on
what's a shabas
tape him tape him and could be modern
orthodox rabbis could be big
or whatever you know whoever they
decided to speak that was a available
available for that much
>> was in Yiddish
>> in Yiddish. Yeah. And know.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah. In Yiddish. Yes. Now I would tape
them. My job was to tape them and take
the tape to Mr. Baseno who was the
director there. This
>> Yeah. in WVD to go down to the radio WVD
and give it to him and that's it.
Later on.
Okay. So
one time I came to this m rabbi from a
young Israel
and he started speaking and he very
nicely
about
I don't remember which he said whatever
he said but then he said like this he
said and since now we're in a time of
yeah
now when I heard that don't forget just
a couple of weeks before that there's a
where the Reb says when you say
you you know people are dying in because
of you know this thing is this
>> saying saying that the medina is
>> you're saying that this is the
I have to bring this to the masses
So it's like you know like
with the with the with the tonus when
they told me to make a ton was for you
know I'll get to that
>> but it has to go through me now how can
I bring a thing like this when the says
that this is
so I went to there were two there were
two
it was Rabbi Margolan there was another
one the vad also el you know big
uh who his name was Rabbi Binski now
these people
or this or they never held about this
they didn't hold it this
so I went to him and I said listen this
guy is saying I can't put this in you
want to put this in I said as a story is
going to say that you want as a story
should say it's claiming declaring it's
the
the gula. So he says, "Listen, put it
in, buddy. You don't care. You just put
it in." So I said, "Oh, I'm not going to
put this in." So I didn't tell anybody.
Didn't tell anybody. And I figured like
this. I know how to splice, you know. I
know how to splice tapes.
So I listen to the tape. And
>> before before editing, you had to slice.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No,
usually I don't edit. I just give it in
the way it was. But this time I decided
I'm going to spice it. And uh no because
I remember. Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
because I remember when he said this
I told him
the ro who said it's I said how can you
say the and he started arguing with him.
He says if you don't put it in then
don't don't put in anything. I want to
he was adamant about it.
So that's why I went to Rabbi Riinsky
and he said listen if he said you know
overlook it but I couldn't overlook it.
So I said to myself what am I going to
do here? So I said I figured I'm going
to splice it and in case this guy first
of all it'll be so even if he you know
he's gets angry it's already
everybody heard the tape everybody heard
his you know his his appeal.
But then I would always say there was
some kind of garble. It was garbled
something. I would al he probably
wouldn't know that that I did it on
purpose. But I didn't care. I spliced it
and when it came to that part I just
took it out through that wasn't
mentioned at all.
Funny thing is he never called he never
called you know protesting.
>> So it went through.
>> Yeah. Went through. Okay. So I was there
from So then again I want to I want to
be like everybody else like all
17 or whatever it is and suddenly
thrust into this place and the tells me
stay here
>> after the summer you asked the
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So stay told stay
there. Yeah. Now this was not I didn't
consider this because to me was you know
it all goes through through procedure
was no procedure here. So this is all
something you know like I never I never
considered myself
like when you go to and all that to me
was you go to you have to like in the
beginning you got all these that went
there so much and all
they all go and they
you know they had to sew and and plow
and and make something and and you know
I didn't consider myself selfish
okay but the told me to stay so I stay
but it always bothered me you know I
so okay so I'm there now
he those years revanken became a sagoren
that man as a story was already he
couldn't see
I would we I would have to go to him
once or two days to get checks signed.
He still signed checks.
So
the first first three hours in the
morning when his head was still you know
he was already bentim but his head was
still sharp.
his grandson who was Udah Hanken. Yankin
later became avan
here in in Betchan in Israel
and he uh became a big
like a among the among the kipotugi you
know
the more
the national religious community
>> and I remember
once asked me he said listen he wants to
become
Rab Banan and Rabbi Gur was chief rabbi
at that time and you need or you need a
some kind of
you know uh recommendation from
so he wants from me he figured that if
Hanken would see if Rab Gin would see
from a letter from Hanken recommending
him it would go smooth. So I remember he
dictated me a letter to to Rabbi Garin.
He very much held a Rabbi Garn you
should know because he he was a big a
big because Rabbi Garn when he was a ber
I think or a younger man he came to
America to show to gets me a very safer
he made a safer culture of a very young
age very lumpish and safer and Raen well
one of the person he came was Raen at
that time he was the ro you know the the
main ro in in America and he was rain
was very rough mash was very impressed
from always loved us. So he always held
it for a big
and that's why he was a little reluctant
to go out against him when there was the
whole story with you know with
>> right
over there. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay. So
he so at the first year when I was there
his son uden used to learn with him then
he became
and they moved to they moved to
was left without somebody learning with
him so I was asked to come every morning
before I come to I used to come to store
910 instead of coming to go straight to
him, sit with him for two or three
hours, learn with him. And I must tell
you that most of my learning
I mean we didn't
I went through gassa in yanker with him
in yank.
>> Yanker.
>> Yeah. Because you know his head was
couldn't take pill and back and forth
and I love him and he was so fluent. He
was such a god and that whatever I said
I made a mistake you know in apostic
so he would correct me
and I would say that was really at
really shimish at that time now
with him and me and this was already
recorded in other places also since I'm
talking to you now about all this I'll
tell it to you
I once came into him
and He uh he says to me, "Listen,
I want you I want to write an article in
Aparadis." You know, you heard of
Aparus, a biblical journal.
>> That was
I want to write I want to write an
article in a
he'll dictate it to you. And he starts
dictating
I heard and I saw
there is a very bad custom in the
yeshivas where they eat before the
that's before right after you know the
after
>> they're eating before
>> right they eat before and he starts
saying like this
the reason that they make kdish
and they eat before k is is is because
they're afraid that
they were afraid that uh they'll be
fasting and not allowed to fast
and uh that's one of the reasons that
they're doing it.
But he says and if they'll do it after
you're not allowed to talk out. So he
says like this. So he wrote like this.
I'm telling you the gist of it. He says,
he says if you eat before
is
the is
afterwards is not.
So it's better to talk out make kish or
whatever you want to do after
then than than talk then
>> and eating before
you don't eat before it's but this is
not
eat
okay and that thing went in in that
paradise
two weeks passed
A letter arrives from Rabbi Morifa from
Shiva's tells
and the letter is stated is addressed to
Rabb Hen at the bottom it says
confidential
and since I was his eyes took all that
was I took all the I read it to him and
he starts off there like this
I was shocked to see
I was pen deviated something
saying that how could you say
how could you slander the yeshivas that
it's a minigra to eat before
and and of course you know that all the
yeshivas do it and you're you're
slandering them and all the did it
Meltzer Cutler and this guy and you know
he
>> oh so was saying that
>> yeah he was saying how could
He was saying
>> true but this is this is the minute
that's done.
>> Yeah. This is the minute that everybody
did and you coming out slandering it and
your merc and that meaning that all the
did it and all that. I remember a whole
list. I remember K was one of them and
all that. So
and I read it to him could be I wouldn't
have read it to him. He was ready at 90
and he was very emotional when he heard
that and it got him all he was all
so it really shook him up.
He said right back to him,
they left me, I like I know more than
him and I know better than him and this
is and I have I have
there was there was a big
over there between
and said
they gave me the authority to say so. So
you have to, you know, have to submit to
what I'm saying. And that's what he's
telling him. And then I get a letter. He
gets comes back with a letter a week or
two weeks later and he says a six-page
letter. And he says, "I'm sorry. I
didn't know I didn't want to be sham.
I just want to take up for for my the
for the I just want to take up for the
covenant of the shas and the and then he
goes into a whole pilful you know which
then he I I spoken over with the
mashstein in in and tells and goes on
that but then I wanted to know you know
I was very you know I I was very
interested
in uh
in he asked me I no I said him. I said
Rafa but he mentions here all these
cutler and all that. So he says so he
says he first he thought I was on his
their side I was taken their side. So he
said
I said
who ever heard of such a thing? So he
calmed it down. He was very happy. Then
he says to me he says I want to tell you
something. I want to tell you something.
There was a rough here at the side. His
name was Rab Goldberg. I think he once
came to me with a sh
the middle of Shash
there. They they sing a lot and they
would for a minute they would say one
word and like
you know
and is it considered or not? So I told
him says two weeks later he comes back
to me. He says he was Shabas in
Lakewood. He spoke to Cutler and he told
him
>> Hanken was in liquid.
>> No, this he spoke to Henin
whether it's EB told it's this R was in
liquid. He asked the same shler
and uh he told him and he comes back to
Roink and he says I spoke with him and
he told me it's not Epson.
So he so I told him so so I so so he
tells me like so so so if he tells me so
tells me like this you should know
maybe he knew a lot of pillik
comes
and he implied that if would know that I
assert
he would also answer he would also
And uh okay that was that he would
find would come every would always come
to win
it wasn't the same on east side a couple
blocks away
and he was he was in charge of that
>> huh
>> was in charge of that
>> was in charge as a story he was a member
of a good
member Isn't it
>> but was the president now I remember and
he was so adamant about this raid about
eating before that in the
in the of as the yearly there's always
when it comes to it tells you the
premises of Hanken was against it was
against eating before
okay but he was always with that that
was his like his
You know that was his thing. Why am I
telling you this? Because I remember
Rabbi Zulti
the chief rabbi of Shalim at that time
once came once came to America to sound
the alarm that Goran is going to become
the chief rabbi was that time and it's
terrible if he come becomes cuz he's
like a ra and he's misra you know and we
have to do everything we have to protest
that he's not supposed to be so he came
to meet with Rahen about this and I was
there at the time
and he says and as soon as he came came
so I introduced him I said
he's the chief rabbi of when he heard
that he says oh very good
he says to instead now thought he's
going to speak to about garb
you should know when you
kids.
It's
their eyes.
>> So this is the big deal.
>> Yeah. And this was, you know, you didn't
expect this.
What you know what's he talking about?
That was
>> very interesting. Okay.
So So I'm with him. I'm with Rafen.
1970.
>> Are you interacting with with the Reb
this time? Like what's going on?
>> Yeah. Yeah. will tell you some. Oh yeah.
Yeah. You just me. Okay. Yeah. Now I'm
going to tell you that this is I would
say the the highlight. This was the
highlight of my being with Rhen and the
Reb. That's what set the printed already
in the back.
Rhen would always listen much of Shabas
on the radio to these shows you know to
a story to Right and mainly to Rabbi
Wineberg he would also always listen to
Rabineber
in those days the Reb was very you know
every FBI he would speak against Miy and
then Mavd have to go out of the National
Religious Party should go out of the
government because being
>> because Miy the government they're
upholding
a government that sanctions uh a reform
conversion
and he always spoke about it and every
afterb
would give over the tany he would take 5
10 minutes to give over an excerpt of
the faban
that you know that couple hours before
on shabas and he would always bring down
this thing with Mi and the Reb's mind.
The Reb is demanding that they leave the
coalition.
One day I come in and Rafen says I want
to write the Reb something
and I want to write him that but I think
he's making a mistake by demanding they
should go out from the government
because look they'll never amend the law
because there's somebody uh a dominant
figure in the government in the
coalition now whose son is or his wife
whose son is married to a Goya
So once he amends this law, he's going
against his own family. So he's not he's
never going to allow it. That's number
one
>> practically.
>> Yeah. Number two,
if he they go out, I mean what they're
upholding yiskite, you know, whatever
yiddishite we have is going to be, you
know,
it's they're upholding it. They
maintaining it. So, and he says, "So, I
think the Reb should stop. You know,
it's it's not right that the what the
Reb is demanding."
I said to myself, "Wow, I'm going to
write the Rebel letter like this. What
is this?" But then I said to myself,
look, I see Raen is very adamant about
it. If I'm not going to do it, somebody
else is going to do it. So, what the
heck, you know, let him let him I as
long I'll write it. I'll be the
typewriter. As long as he signs it, who
cares, you know? So, he signs I'll do my
job. And I'll give it to the Reb. I
didn't do it. He He did. I was just a
typewriter.
So,
and I figured, you know, I forgot about
it. I didn't know I didn't think the Reb
is going to pay any attention to it. So,
I, you know, I didn't even go usually a
lot of letters I gave him. I told By
Mleian, I said, "Listen, this is Mo.
This is very I want you to must see this
immediately and all this here. I just
put it down whatever wherever it goes,
you know. I just went in put it down and
figured and all that. It was 10:00 in
the morning.
I think it was on a Thursday. Yeah. Was
it Thursday? Yeah, Thursday. Thursday to
10:00 in the morning.
I go to my around 1:00 or 12:00
I had to ask Mama something about a
certain thing
and you know and I forgot about this
whole thing and I call I called him up
about said and as soon as he picked up
the form he goes me he says where are
you I'm I'm I'm searching for you
already for two hours you know you got
an answer immediately for the Reb
says is and the and and that that answer
there you'll see you'll see it in the in
the in the there were three answers here
because I gave to Reben this answer
reacted to it I told the Reb what he
reacted the Reb answered it again and
then he reacted to it again then Reb
again something and these three times
when the Reb answers is printed already
set in I think I'm not sure I'll find
out I'll let you know if you really want
to
So the reb writes about the the first
one where he says there's a dominant
figure. So he says you're probably mean
Bengorian Bengorian.
Yeah. The in the letter. So you're
talking about Bengurian. Reb says you're
probably talking about Bengurian because
his son Bengurian son was married to
Goya. Okay. So you're talking about him.
So you should know that this this
they the the law returned the miudi
problem arose
erupted after he was prime minister he
wasn't in the government then so golden
mayor's time this after he was prime
minister and when he was prime minister
it was gear was kala
there was a proper gear so it has
nothing to do with him Then the Reb says
by them being in the government every
time they're in the government
>> they're from party.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's a from party. They're
holding up. They're maintaining them.
So I got this letter. I got the answer
with the Reb on Thursday 12:00.
I figured like this Friday I don't go
in. The next time I'll see him is
Sunday.
To leave over answer the Reb from
Thursday to Sunday to somebody. You
can't do that. Whatever answers to
somebody, you have to give it to them
immediately. So I figured 7:00 in the
evening. I went down there with friend
of mine,
Rabbi Gwitz Parkway. And we went down
because his came from the same city as
Rabhen came from
his
also was. So I took him down there with
me. So you should should see it's a
friendly friendly person. We came 7:00
in the evening. I came in there and I
tell him the answer
and uh here's the answer. He says no
it's not the answer and he's he sort of
I say he's disturbed he's going back
like you know and but then maybe he
doesn't want to speak in front of Rabbi
Gurwoods. So I asked him to wait in the
car. When he went out, I said to him,
"This what the Reb says about Gur is
this one." So he says, "I didn't mean."
So who do you mean? So he says, he
starts saying, "Um,
so I said I said, "You mean Abbe?" So he
said, "Yeah, aban." Yeah, that's who it
is. Aben. So okay. So I went out, I said
goodbye and all that. I read back to the
Reb and this what he said. Then the Reb
writes back another letter to him with a
bigger uh much larger letter. You'll see
the settlers bigger than the first one.
He says the go say take a look over
there. The tells it was all origin. Ab
his wife is the sister of the
daughter-in-law of Rabbi Herzak the
chief rabbi.
He has nothing to do with me with the
with the coalition with the government.
He's he's a he's a a foreign minister.
So you hear him you hear him in in in in
init
he has no say whatsoever no saying
whatsoever in in in Israel. He has no
say in any matter in Israel. His main
focus is to be in the United Nations.
That's it.
And then he says and uh to and for them
to be in the government even when their
own rabbis their own rabbis rabbi at
that time these are the rabbis that
their mentors and they they follow their
they told them that they have to leave
the government
>> they told leave the government at that
time and they're not leaving the
government they're going against their
own rabbis remember so when I came back
and I told him this he listed and he
says
And he says and he he says
he just he he he said that the what the
rabbis since
the their rabbis didn't tell them a
date. They didn't tell them you can't go
up up until this date. If by this and
this date the the law is not amended you
have to leave the government. They just
said they have to leave the government.
So, so a sim it's a it's a political a
political threat.
So I wrote back to the Reb what he said
and this the Reb you take a look very
sharp and this from this was at the end
he says to say to say
from a
that's a political political threat is
and they can say on any of they can also
the same thing. No, it started off like
this because he said there was no date
that
things like this. It's
there's no date.
You take a look. It is all day has to
so so to say and
sucked in from above that it's a
political political threat
when I told him that he was big when he
heard that it gave much I saw but he he
did he remained quiet really heard him
it hurt him but he was mab deis he you
know He really that's sort of like he
was my caballet and that was it. That
was the end of that story.
>> Okay. I was with Rhenin Hen passed away
in Gimlu
and Yeah. But this is before they say
here beforeh
the secretary
of
who was name ye by the name of Yan of
Helerstein made aliyah
and they were looking for somebody to
replace him and I think Zamagari told
Simber
that
He could, you know, why not put Lavine
upstairs? He's in the same building and
all that. Why not
>> Zagr? He was very involved in a good he
was right. I don't know. I don't know. I
never asked him. Even if I asked, he
wouldn't tell me. I don't know if Zman
did that on his own or he was told to do
so. I I don't know,
but I never spoke to him about it.
Now so yeah so Elvin agreed
>> and I started working at
>> so you became the you became the place
yes the mas right okay that's where I
start
>> now it's
as well or just he moved over to
now
the
at that time was a he by the name of of
rabbi mayor co a big his father was the
mad
and he he was a big mayor
now
>> I have a question
is what what's his position in the
>> president
>> so he's the president he's the
>> he's the he's the final word he's the
final word okay yeah
>> okay
>> so basically becoming the mask of
automatically means
Exactly. Exactly.
>> You're working with me.
>> Exactly. Right. Right.
>> Right.
So
namid base
there was uh this is I think a week
before I became masal
there was a delegation of audabon
and for raon I think mayor co rabelberg
another two raonim I forgot their name I
think my rifman I forgot their names
they went went to the Reb to give
for
and never sat with him for I think a
half hour or whatever. Okay. I was not
yet involved in at that time but I knew
>> you were you weren't in the
>> I I knew of the meeting though. No. So
the next morning I went down to
you know I was upstairs I was a student
and I went down to to and I asked him
tell me what what were you talking about
and
then by the rebas so he says to me
you should know to sit by the is
and I want you to know that the is
sitting where sit where he's in his room
and it's as though
is right next to him in his daladamas
because he started telling us what's
going on over there. He started telling
us about meetings of the government. Who
sat here, who sat there, who said what,
who said that, what time and when and
how. And spoke about and it's mamesh.
You should know by him is mish in the
same room or next door. Mamesh next
door. He knows everything. It's a tiny
now.
this toshin
toshin lit. Yeah. Oh yeah. Now we're
going back to toshin lit. And I'm still
in another story at that time. Toshin
lit. That's when the the moody thing
broke out. The whole chaos you know with
registering as he Yeah. And when the reb
came out the first time the reb came out
of this was
and if you listen to the you'll hear the
saying like this. there's that there
there's a subject here that I I was
involved behind the scenes. I didn't
want to make it didn't go out publicly
about it. But I see I have no choice.
Nothing's being done. So I have to speak
about it publicly. And he started
speaking. That's when he started
speaking the first time screaming
against the against the law for an hour.
And from that day on until the 80s he
was not one public gathering where he
did not he didn't mention this all the
time mentioning that the
and always demanding that they go out of
the government demanding they go out of
the government
this
now
now when the said when the said that you
know I see nobody's that the the people
gave up and nobody's doing about it. So
I have no choice but doing it. I could
understand what the Reb meant because I
saw something. I witnessed it myself and
you know then I and and and understood
that that's this is what the Reb meant.
What happened was like this. They sent
go to Sabonim with Mosha Finstein, Rabbi
Elberg and other two Rabonim went there
was a de delegation that went to Israel
about this make the alarm to protest it
to meet there with with the higher achel
of the Israeli government and the
Rabonum at that time to try to to amend
the law. This was before the Reb was
speaking about it. After all, this is
the the
not.
So I remember with when he came back, I
was upstairs in Torah came up because he
also had people that he would ask
assistance. He would sponsor them. He
would be on behalf of them. He would ask
to send them money. And we're speaking
with this Rabbi Reginki.
And Rabbi Reginki says to him, "No,
Rabbi Elig, what do you say? What how
was your trip? How can you what's what's
the me how did you fare in this with me
and all that? So he says to him like
this I hearing this I'm telling you word
by word what I heard with my own ears.
He says Rabbi
there is nothing to be done. I tell you
if you'll take a revolver a gun point it
to their heads and threaten them that
you know threaten them with a revolver.
If they're not going to they're not
going to do anything, we'll shoot you.
If you're not going to amend the law,
they also will not amend the law. It's
the government.
>> Impossible. Yeah, it's impossible.
Forget it. Forget like he he said it
openly.
Maybe there was others that said it
also. You know where the Reb says that
people gave up. Maybe there was others
also, but this is definitely one of
them. Okay. So
then
the started activating behind the scenes
of him through
>> you told this over to someone.
>> What?
>> Wait, you just told me
>> that time maybe I told this to the I
don't remember if I mentioned this to
the Reb.
Could be I did I don't remember. But I
did or anyway
>> but he's saying it's around this when
the Reb starts speaking.
>> Yeah, it was right before right before
he started.
>> I think they were Elberg told the same
thing to the Reb by the way.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Now
uh
so after after after
oh after the the
after
>> that's when they started after the
activated them through to activate them
in other words to make a public
demonstration
against it to make a ton made a tonis
you'll see you know and Of course I had
to implement this all. This was all
whatever they decided I had to do the
actual
uh implementation.
>> So I organized I organized the the uh
the the the mass there was a mass
demonstration on the lower east side.
Everybody came at that time and the
whole yeshivas went everybody came and
Mosha was there and you know we were
didn't help but was a it was a big mak
but this was one of the things that I
had to organize and everything like that
was sent to Chicago to make something
like that stayed by rebel who were there
reburn came at that time and this was
all through Simber but of course in the
back there was the reb
And of course here I was also involved
in the implementation. So if there were
things that I thought that had to be
given over I would always call
I never I never wrote to the Reb in set.
I would never write to the Reb about
or stuff like that. That would all go
through.
Now the very first time I said this many
times already the very first time that I
spoke to
don't forget I was a ber and I was
didn't know anything about the reb the
line I thought I was speaking
so the very first time I remember
I spoke about something
and suddenly I hear the reb saying to
Rabbikov,
make him ask him about this and this.
This later on went out like this. I'll
tell you, every time the Reb wanted to
know something, he didn't ask directly
to me. Even though I'm on the phone and
I hear it, he said to Rabbikov, ask him
this and this. So, I heard the question
twice. Heard it from the Reb himself and
then I heard from Rebikov. But the very
first time that this happened, I didn't
expect this and it was like a shock. It
was like an electric shock when I hear
the Reb's voice. I lost my my identity.
I lost my my my my speech. I I didn't I
was overwhelmed. I I you know and the
Reb says to ask him and was asking him
and I can't speak and he's waiting for
an answer and I can't speak. So he said
he said okay maybe says no maybe later
and all that then we'll speak about it
another time and all that. and we hug
up. And then after that, when I hugged
up, I said to myself, "What's going on
here? The Reb is asking, and you're not
and you're you're not saying anything. I
mean, this this is going to happen
again." So I started
thinking in my mind
that when I speak to Rabbi,
even though I hear the Reb's only noise,
the Reb is not around. This is like what
it says that
he took away
because or else there's no place for for
for for
over here also I had to be this this was
you know this I had to be or else
there's no place for me here that's you
know I don't have an identity and it
help it it worked because I was able
then to even hear the Reb speak to but I
know I'm speaking okay I hear the Reb
that's like a side thing it's secondary
thing but his main thing is I'm speaking
I give all the answers everything that
I'm asked to I'm you know was good and
it came to a point where I was able even
to to to joke with him what like that
okay so do I once got
I'm just I'll come back soon to to
But what's interesting is that
that there was a year and I forgot which
year that I was able to get a letter
from
and from Gdal
supporting the Lakoma parades 770. This
was a big thing because they were so I
got a letter from both of them. I could
have gotten a letter at that time from
Cutler too.
That would really be the big bomb. But I
figured it myself. I'm afraid if I got
to him, you know, it could screw up the
whole thing. It could
>> He was kata was part of a banana.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I was very friendly.
He liked me very much. I'll come to that
soon. We were very very friendly. He
wasn't like his father. So he um so I uh
got a letter from them. It was
publicized of course Jewish press and
then this then
>> it was like a letter. It was a letter
from a
>> no from Musha. A private letter from
Mosha and from on his
>> stationary
I wrote the letter and he signed it. He
signed the date of the letter and all
that.
I remember okay so I get a call from one
of his one of us you know the people
that didn't like me that you know that
was there and he said you know what kind
of a stepish you made to you know what
you did you got a letter is so angry at
you he started saying telling me he's
angry at you that you did this and that
and you said it on Sunday you're not
supposed to Sunday and you know
>> that the praise on a Sunday
>> yeah and he don't mention Sundays you
know, and he's angry and we went and you
know, it really frightened me a bit. I
later on I found it's not true,
but but he's so angry, you know, that so
I remember I I I called I had to share
it with him. And the Reb was out in line
to listening to my story. I'm telling
him the whole story and he heard it and
he said he told me, "Nah, don't worry
about it. Maybe next time you check it
over again. Like he he dismissed it. And
then he said to me in a joking way, what
about did you eat the the the eggs the
eggs on? I didn't know there was a
minute to eat eggs. Did you know that? I
mean
>> I think I found out that you eat I think
and I didn't know that that was it. And
I said, "Bos, what are you talking
about? What kind of eggs?" And I hear in
the back
I hear the back of the Rebel laughing so
hard, you know. It wasn't a smile. He
burst out and such a laughter, you know,
and I got scared because I was
embarrassing. I didn't know what the
exit is about. And I should have known
what the exit is about. And the the Reb
is laughing so hard and is laughing. And
uh later on you know I I found out that
it's a mid you know so that's one thing
and uh coming back to well
the tis
that's already known I don't know it was
already printed in in encounter they had
something like that I don't know should
I say it
>> huh
>> okay
>> among is brought to you
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Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of
the podcast. This is during the Yikipa
war
if you remember
and the the Reb said that the way to
help the help victory to bring to
victory and triumph in the war is since
this the
time
through this you help you can help the
the to win the war
and But everybody else, this was like a,
you know, everybody is so dejected here
in in America. They hear what's going on
over there, people falling, 2,000
soldiers falling and this uh catastrophe
and how can you be happy in such a time
people used to went over to Elber in
middle of Ding in the Sh over there. He
says, "How come a good is not doing
anything? Some kind of a tonist or or
filler? How can you guys are quiet?
What's all this? Well,
and this is the way you're going to
help.
But of course to them they this was a
novelty. So but Elbert saw that
everybody wants it. So he decided he's
going to call a a meeting of all the I'm
going to start one of all the members
and to discuss it and whatever is uh
decided
okay whatever is resolved
is he he'll he'll tell me to implement
so I remember is the middle
even this the first time remember came
and this guy came I remember this guy it
was a big a big meeting usually meetings
were just small communion but now was
just was a big a lot of people came
everybody from all the Babacha members
in Austad came Rabbi Weinberg Rabbi Mlik
Rabbi Morazzov everybody
and uh
and this so the first person speaking
was Reb Mentlick he started giving over
the day of the reb
and and was speaking very emotionally
with
and he got up there and those who
remember Rabbi Rabbi mentally he was
very emotional and he would make with
his hands and his body and he said the
Reb said this and the Reb said that and
he was speaking so strongly you can see
that the
was tilting towards him like no
>> you can't do a tonis not a not a good
idea
>> yeah then came titus tit started
speaking and he says
and he was also aator and he said
I can't understand how you can dance in
such a time such a time people are
falling there and and
so I remember there was a a a rabbi
there who from the g
rabbi ro who hated you know the mach
them. So he got up there and he
interrupted and he said
and eating you're you're able to eat and
you're able to sleep anyway just you
can't dance but eating and sleeping you
could remember anyway they resolved it
that there should be a ton actually
should be
>> yes they resolved that tonis because
Elbert wanted it too el wanted it it
wouldn't be but he also wanted it this
gave some kind of
make it would it would give him
publicity you know be everybody is for
it
be
it'll be and everybody is now into it
and
I go to is doing it so they at night
was not at the meeting so at night they
had a telephone conference I wasn't
there they had a telephone conference
with Raos and others, big rabbins
and all the the at that time they
decided to make out this and they drew
up an ad that has to be you know has to
be publicized
or yeah
and now they also know you don't you
only make a tinus on in middle of but
they they wanted the tin should after
and but they would notify the public
during the
>> position was that
>> you don't
right right so
and to me this is crazy this is I mean
what are you you're going to tell people
you're going to tell people that this
before that there's going to be a tis
and and after they're going to dance
with the tora what kind of with that
beep. They know this going to be such a
time. Okay. Anyway, they made that thing
up and El says to me, "Okay, bring it
down to Jacobson, to the algorith,
bring it to them." And and uh so I
didn't want to do it at first. I said,
"What am I going to do? How am I how can
I do a thing like that?" But then I said
to myself, "If I'm not going to do it,
he's going to do it. So, let me do it.
I'll try to sabotage."
So I took it and I said to him, "Okay,
I'll do it." Now he knew that there was
the deadline was Wednesday 2:00. He gave
it to me over the phone the the night
before or the morning and he knew he
suspected me
and he suspected me of you know and he
called me at 10:00 in the morning. He
says, "You gave it over." So I said,
"Lixon, listen. It's 2:00. There's a
deadline. It's only 10:00." "Of course I
I'll do it." He calls me 12:00. "Did you
do it?" So I said, "I'm on my way."
Calls me 1:00. Did you do it? Yeah, I'm
in the middle of traffic. There's a big
traffic jam. They go, I came down. He
calls me around after two and I said,
"Well, I came, but he told me it was too
late. What can I do? It's a traffic
jam." like okay that was that was at
night.
The next morning, I come into into the
office, Ashan Rabin morning, and I the
telephone rings and I pick up the phone
and El's on the phone and he says,
"Lavine,
get the out of this office immediately.
You you have to be in a nut house. What'
you do? How can you speak this? You know
what you did?" biggest Rabonim every 70
years said that this is that this
exists for 70 years and no one had the
to go out against and everybody else and
you come along and you do that what
would you do get that I don't want to
see you here you're fired don't come
back don't don't show your face around
and all that you know and and okay so I
left
And I didn't know I started thinking to
myself.
I know the reb who told me he wants I
should be and he was telling me I didn't
know how to how to feel how to act and
I'm not going to write about this. This
is already I am not going to write about
this to the Reb now. I'm not going to
call to tell him about this now. I'm
going to speak about these things to the
Reb about this. you know
I decide I'm going to write to the reb
about this after shabas braces at that
time sha Friday shabas I think shabas
was shabas it came out like that you
know where three days one after the
other so it was after shabas now rabbi
gurari told me zurari says you should
have you shouldn't have done what you
did
>> so that shouldn't yeah yeah they told
you no because since it's important you
be there so but I so when he told me
that I started I started really feeling
bad maybe I did wrong I didn't know I
didn't know I oh yeah
I came to Mosha and Mosha told me he
didn't fire me says if you want I'll
tell Elbert to bring you back so I said
to myself
why should I go back I don't know if I
did good or not because if I did good
why should I go back and so I said I
don't know so he says listen if you want
I'll a little bit to to give you go
back. So anyway, so I decided I won't
say anything until I write to the Reb
about it. Then uh after
shabas gracious I wrote to the rebba and
I got a reb I got an answer from the
rebb saying that uh I spoke about this
yesterday by the
then the rebb spoke about and he says
now is not the time
and I think he mentioned in that I could
come out sharper than you did but now is
not a time
and yeah and especially in this he he
referred to the simmon in which in
the time of you don't make fast you
don't you don't proclaim fasts and all
that and that's why I think wasn't so
you know wasn't so enthused about this
whole thing was so enthusiastic about
making this whole the publicizing the
tonis in in the middle of because you
also know the d anyway told me that he
spoke about it Shabas on Shabas he spoke
at that time the difference between
but there was a time that you needed
rain so he came to
had to make a circle he had to d it took
time for him to d and then it started
pouring he said I don't want this I
didn't want I don't mean pouring then it
didn't it went with drops I didn't drop
until it took time took time until he
got what he wanted. All he did was he
said
and
so this whatever said but they wanted
they went according
to where they wanted has a place in
but I wanted it should be like you know
like
should go straight and all that. So uh
okay so I understood from the reb that
uh I shouldn't have done it. So I went
back to I said okay I'll go back and
Elberg I actually wanted I he had a this
was all a play by Elberg he had to show
face in front of the other that he's not
labavich so he had to yeah because I'll
tell you
>> he's saying you're saying the whole
thing that he wanted the
>> yeah yeah the whole no the whole thing
that he fired me and he spoke he spoke
to me with such you know which degrading
names
>> really you
I'm happy nobody heard it. So he he
really, you know, washed the floor with
me. So but you know something, I'll tell
you something.
Years later, years later, 10 years
later, when I went to
Ali, when I came to Israel, before I
went to Israel, I went to to Rabbi
Elberg with my wife to say good goodbye.
And uh you know like a uh so he says to
me so he went he got a calling he went
into the other room and his wife
remained in the room together with me
and my wife and he she says to me I want
to tell you something my husband is not
listening now but I want to tell you
something you know you should know my my
my husband admired you very very much
the courage your your your your courage
and your audacity, you know, he he liked
it very much. But but he couldn't. So in
other words, when he when he was
smearing you, whenever he shouted at
you, he did it only to save face. If
people should not say that he's lavage
with Lavage, but he really admired you
very very much. Okay, that's one. Now
uh
>> you want to go back you want to go back
to me hoodie.
>> No.
>> Okay.
>> What? What are you talking about? Going
back to fight me.
>> No. No. I'm saying you you wanted me to
remind you about going back to me hoodie
at some point.
>> Come to that. I'm going to come. There's
something now. There's the only thing
with that I that I didn't realize so
much.
I you know I mean I was unaware of that
because because you have to know to me
there's no there was the that's it
you know
but it's like this is but then there's
you know so it's like two different to
me the reb was
so I I did not try to find favor or to I
had an opportunity to be with whatever I
wanted but I didn't do it so much I
didn't feel like others did it I mean I
he was the I had the most respect for
him he was great and I loved him but I
didn't know to what extent I had favor
in his eyes because I'll tell you when I
came I remember when I was uh when I was
with
so it was
his his his grandchild his grandson
Tendler he was his right-hand man he
would make appointments and he would be
very very angry at his wife too people
come bothering you if you don't you know
they just hated it that people come
bothering you all the time I would go
there also if I had to do something you
know with with um uh
if he had assigned something I would go
for but as I I stayed away I knew so
when I came back to from Israel and I
went to Israel 1982 and I came back in
1984 for a wedding and
weeks before I left I was there for two
weeks and uh a day before I left I
called up stomach a courtesy call to
reba tendler
and I said to ma you know I I was see
I'm going back so said when are you
going back so I said I'm going back
tomorrow and she said you were here for
two weeks and you didn't come to my
grandfather
so I said no I know I remember you're so
angry that you didn't want people to go
and all that yeah but you're but you're
something else I mean how is it that you
didn't come in I was shocked to heard
that,
you know, but uh
>> he he he Mosha really really we had a a
wonderful rapport and I'll tell you one
time I was sent to be at a good
convention
that time all the were there and the ant
all the antelabers were there and I I
couldn't understand why it was sent
here. But you know I was sent I I
had I did it. I was sent
>> I was sent from you know
>> yeah through throughman.
>> So and the and so I went I I remember
when told me to go because he paid for
it. He paid for my going. So I said why
what for?
So I went and all the then there was
really was like after wask
and there was and
there were all the big ones.
Now there was this there was a Misha was
there.
I was later I was told that the reason
that I was sent this was like four
months after the reb came out with
and at that time a lot of people were
who posted it said it's
I was told afterwards by not by not I
was told by somebody some of these times
that it could be you were sent because
if they would probably want to speak
about against
if they
there. It was sort of like deter him. It
was like you know
it was like
so I was there at that time
was there too and to him the babes was
really you know don't no but he saw me
there and everybody saw me there with
the babes
this is the year after a couple of
months after was
and then the sa was that after kabal
shabas after admir kabal shabas
Everybody with 2,000 guests there all
the would be standing on the you know on
on by the table and everybody would go
past like a you know they go past and
say good chabas good chabas and then he
would say good job when I went by this
lab goes by I said chabas to and he says
so he stopped he says you have where to
eat come to me and this is they all they
all heard this this is the pap going
So it was very it's very interesting
and yeah you asked me about
ah
yeah actually the
second
before the
>> um what what was some other what year
was your
>> 74 for.
So were there some other was there
anything between and the leba that you
were involved in
>> besides besides the
oh yeah okay
this afterwards after the okay
>> know so start with the and then we'll
move on to the other stuff
>> okay
>> what's the story
I wanted to be
because the web is not going to be
so I well I don't want to I want to be
by the reb so the is going to be in 770
well he should be to the rebba so I
asked him and he heard it was so they
said I was also my was also he was very
happy for two reasons he right away
agreed he was happy that you know to be
mad by me personally and also I I I
guess he felt it was like a deji from is
so uh he agreed. I didn't tell anybody.
I just told him there's going to be a
crown heights and that's it.
Okay. So then the cast came he came
he came.
>> So he had no idea that the is going to
be in front of Sami.
>> Yeah. He came he came and nobody knew.
He came and he he was there at first.
You see the pictures they were speaking
before the he was with he had a big
conversation with
and then came the
rabbi was there rabbi lip I think
really the really were able to be mash
at the window
and uh after the after the
the
after the
said to him, "Would you want to go
>> to go to the to the Reb to say hello?"
He said, "Of course, of course." And
then he he went in and they spoke for 45
minutes. And there's that picture where
when he came out where label goers
helping him put on the coat. Remember
that? You saw that picture.
>> Yeah. You can see you could see the like
>> you see the reb. And then the main thing
is you see that the time the time is
accord
9:30 but this time because she came out
50 minutes later that there's a picture
was the picture of the Rebi coming out
you know
this is very important this the clock
because two weeks after two weeks later
all those that
the the meeting of and Reba was the
front page alam the main headline that
week that infuriated infuriated
everybody.
They refurated because like you you did
some basically to to bring him.
They were furated because because it
came out from the article that Mosha
went to the Reba and the Reb didn't come
to him.
>> Mhm.
>> They they felt the Reb should come.
>> They were saying because you're bringing
the Reb at 2:00 in the morning and you
have the picture to prove that it wasn't
2 o'clock in the morning.
>> Yeah. Right. When the Reb has a heart
attack in 1978,
all the
got together what to do for you know to
bring to the rebba and help him you know
get well soon so remember
he was I think he's the one that
initiated it and decided to erect newism
>> I was sort of jealous everybody's doing
something what can I do my capacity
so I figured if I can get a letter from
the
that would be a big
so but I knew that if I asked to write
the letter
it's going to take time and meanwhile
somebody can come in and see that it's
he's supporting them if so he's going to
right away sabotage it so I had to
figure out how to do this in a way that
nobody would sabotage it
Now I had access to to Malaysia to go
whenever I wanted. I didn't need an
appointment and I was very very friendly
with his wife the rebbit
and it was mat. I think it was a very
snowy day. Nobody was outside. Nobody
would go anywhere. I figured this is the
perfect time.
So I so I figured it's enough. I didn't
want he ask him to write it with his own
handwriting. Well, that's enough. I'll
I'll I drew up the letter that he's
supporting all the all he has to do is
sign it like he also does and the date.
So, and I bring him this and I came
there, nobody was there.
Suddenly, I see that not only is he
signing, but he's writing poor lines
with his handwriting about the Reb. How
you know all things that he does is
and and you should support everything
that he does. That's what means to
support it and support it. And uh and as
he's writing, it takes time for him to
write. I'm saying I want to get out of
here already because maybe somebody can
come in in the me and but I got it. I
went out and it was 6:00 when I came out
and it's it was a snowstorm and I would
go to Crown Heights with the bus that
goes through Williamsburg
goes over the Williamsburg bridge but at
that time the Reb down my recorders at 7
went home 7:00 so I knew I didn't think
I would make it to bring the Reb before
he goes but I wanted the Reb to at least
know there's a letter of supporting
this should help him to get well.
So,
so I uh called up label labor label grer
and I told him you should know I have a
letter from supporting the and I hope to
be there in time. If not, you should
know that I have this and you can relate
it to the web. I took the bus and the
bus went I came to New York to Brooklyn,
stopped at Brooklyn as parkway. I ran
out with all my might and I ran. When I
came into70, it was the last goddish
after Alenu.
So everybody's standing in line, you
know, people are standing in line when
the reb comes out from the mismed to go
to his room and I'm standing there with
everybody and the reb comes out and
label is in back of him and the reb
looks everybody he sees me as soon he
sees me he turns around to label and he
makes with his hand like you know and he
goes back to label them and the label
immediately runs to me and he says give
me give me the letter and I gave him the
letter. He goes in after 10 minutes he
comes out and he says
the asked I should tell you
I something else that I I have a second
remind me remind me again what year was
your
>> 74
so this is before your right
>> no this is this is after 78 this is
after the this is by the after the
destroy after the heart attack.
>> Oh, that's what this was. Okay. Yeah.
There's there's another letter from
>> Mhm.
>> like for
that. You had nothing to do with No.
No. No. Oh, I have something. I have Oh,
there's something I I wanted to tell
you.
>> You heard of Rabbi Pali. Yud Pali. You
heard that name? the one that the one
that spoke by the
>> yes he's the head of the from he's the
one that really you know was the rebu
here in in Israel
at first came out a big letter in 1970
big letter all his handwriting no type
all the big letter all typing against me
is and all that
and he and then he came out Then years
later uh uh couple of years later the
Reb wanted him to come up with another
letter. So he took the same letter that
he gave out a couple years before and he
wrote underneath everything that I said
here in this letter from before is
it has still validity still valid now.
Okay. Then cameshin
I think or maybe lame I don't remember
one of these years paldi was there
in America I think for him
or or
the reb asked that he should get a
letter from
about
about again about
to keep that in the to keep it
So, uh, I wrote up I wrote a letter and
I signed it. I asked actually actually.
Yeah.
Sometimes I would ask
over the phone if I could sign in his
name. He would listen to the thing and
he would give me sometimes he would say,
"Do this, do that." that he would he
would correct it or whatever and give me
permission. This is what I did here too.
And I read to the I made up draw up a
letter and I
answer
and he he he said okay he confirmed it.
So I gave him the letter to the Rabbi
Pali afterwards.
And when Rabbi Pali
went into the Reb
when I wrote I wrote
at the end that and everybody who can do
so I don't remember exactly
to to help to assist to to be
Okay. So, he comes in to the Reb and he
shows him the letter
and the Reb
looks at it
and he looks at him with a smile and he
says, "Tell me who signed this letter."
And he put a smile. Then the says,
"Take this out. This is labage. This is
not a lab issue. Take this out. They say
this. This is
know what that means,
>> right?
He says take out
and
that." And there was something else I
should have. Okay, there's a m here with
with
this this is I would say it's really the
as they say in in in
but before I say to myself I have to
give you background understand what the
context
this is going back
in
right before 1980 before Rabbi Salvation
came to the river
a month before there was
and there's this
this
usually when they made
it was once every seven years all the
would um all the
lemons in would get invitations
so they wouldn't be able to come.
They'll send maybe a bra or whatever.
The Reb also would get a invitation and
would always send the brah a telegram
with a braha
that year
some reason by the they wanted to read
the reba
so there was that da
that was
>> yeah yeah so he said he said I'm going
to let at the end they read it But there
was a certain time until they read it.
There was you know there was rumors and
rumors that he's gonna he's not letting
this and this guy say this. There were
rumors there were there were reporters
there to them. This was a scoop. He's
not letting him read the things. So the
next day there was a headline that this
guy from Nebach didn't allow the the the
the
reading of the letter. At the end they
did read it but at that time they didn't
know about it. He had the reporters. It
was
then
came to the
next morning 8:00.
Elbert calls me and he says, "Listen, I
give us
I give us on Coca-Cola."
Yeah. And
this
he wants to take away this from me. His
mentor is Rabves.
I want to call Rabvesik and ask him. He
should tell his student should you know
keep away from it. I mean, not Masik. I
want you to be on the other line to be
anist in case this comes to dur or
whatever.
Now if I would have known what I would
hear at this conversation between Elber
and and Salvich I would have brought a
tape.
>> So I'm the only witness here but I tell
you it's true every word.
So I was in the other room and elbow was
under the room in a little extension. I
called up Rabbi Salvik and I said good
morning
wants to speak to you.
Okay. So this is the way it goes. I hear
the conversation picks up the phone and
he says good morning good I'm going to
say it in English. It was the
conversation was in Yiddish so I'll say
it in English. Okay.
>> Sure.
>> So he it's okay. So he says good
morning.
Good morning.
How are you? Says fine. So I thought
they were going to start speaking about
the deception. So the first thing says
to him,
"How did you like it yesterday?" Says,
"What do you mean yesterday?"
>> Yeah, last night. She says, "Oh, what
are you talking about? water and what
kind of impression there was. I I was
had a suffic if I should make a
that you make when you see 600,000.
He says and they're all his. He's the
father of Balacha movement in America.
They're all
>> Yeah, they're all his. What can I tell
you is Mamesh? It was I heard him speak.
He knows Tanya Bal. He he he speaks
Gammorus. I I I noticed he was saying
malt and at one time he made a mist he
sort of made a mistake and right few
seconds later he turned back and
corrected himself and it was his mammish
you know I was later told that he would
have stayed longer he probably should
had to go to the bathroom and he didn't
want to make a big tuml to come back
otherwise he would have stayed much
longer
>> uh it was wonderful so then says to
You know, Salvich, you're coming to the
Reb
personality like you coming to the Reb
sort of diminished the GI covered in the
Reb.
>> But
he so he said what are you talking
about? So he says, so he told him that
this this was you know this and so and
so who who which was she
who made it for since when is he what
are you talking about? So he says, so
says,
so he says,
"So what? So what made him think he's
going to say this?" And yet what are you
talking about? Who are you comparing to?
Like you know you who are you dealing
with here? You know like it was a
you know everything is
kind of what?
That was that was very you know I you
want to ask me something else.
>> So you you got called about you you made
a call about Coca-Cola. You ended up
hearing uh
>> much more important things.
>> Yeah. Listen
>> I have a I have a question a general
question. How did
>> how did all these
and
look at you like this?
>> No no no no no. Only few knew. Everybody
thought Elber is and I'm not because
there were times there were times that
had to tie against Elberg. They would
come to me and vent vent their anger at
at Elberg that he's with.
>> That's an interesting story.
>> So your so your mam is undercover.
Well, since you bring it since you
mentioned that
I was sent to go to conventions two
times.
One time, the second time I was there, I
remember I went into the convention to
to a couple of shabas and I noticed
Rabal
was a rasha.
He was speaking another another rash and
he knew me very well and he so I walked
by and I nodded my head sort of like to
say and I said good chabas you know to
courtesy listen
and he looks at me he smiles and I hear
him saying I hear him saying to the
rasha that he's talking to he says you
know who this is this is the CIA of
labavich
>> the CIA Hey,
>> since you mentioned it, I wouldn't have
mentioned it. Would you just mentioned
it under covers? I'm telling you, I'll
discuss.
Okay.
But uh
there at one time I remember remember
when the Reb starting whistling the
first time Reb started whistling and he
told Mayor Rabb he would told May the
Reb would go like this that may emotion
him
>> the emotion. Yeah. So they there was a
picture was a fab was a fab in the
middle of week
>> and somebody called they caught a
picture and that picture was in the
like this you know
you know was haste I'm a five
and
so
when there was
a a meeting of you on him one time and
there was a rabbi there was the he was
the son-in-law of the rash
>> yeah and he was there the he was a
member he didn't like so much
>> he had a he had a brother that lived in
crown
>> could be I don't know and he who fascit
>> oh that's something else yeah anyway so
he he was sitting there and Zman is
sitting There too is the meaning of
he was thinking there and then he says
and then he looks he looks he brings out
takes out
and he says look at this.
So Zman of course was there and he says
I think he said because he was Zman was
was referring to the head of David
for
was dancing you know
so says they got this guy
so he says
They're going back and forth.
He says, "You know what? Let's make a
deal. Whoever is right, the one who
loses has to give $100. Donate $100."
Now, I knew that this was
But isn't it a
>> what? Yeah.
Right. Right. But but but but the Rambam
brings this as a riot that you should be
how you should act, how you should
behave when doing a mitzvah or being
involved in a mitzvah, right? He brings
that ping, right?
>> Mhm.
>> So, and this is what Z wanted to bring
out. The rebay
and the Reb once also once has a
rebard you can hear it on tape where he
says that if this brings people to be
close to
so you do it. So you see it's a it's a
thing
because that's the if you're doing
something right or not right if it
brings closer to this guide so you're
doing it right if not not
now then there was inshin lmed
I think
when the reb wanted to make a a fast day
for moodi
people should have have their fast for
so this is wanted a fast
>> yeah and he wanted should proclaim it
that everybody should do it
now
you something now that
I know maybe I told it in previous
podcast but that was the first time too
probably
he he made a shabon made the uh the the
the announcement
the ad that because they were were
proclaiming a half day fast and we
should say these
and they put their uh few that they
decided people should say that that day
and I took it
I know they don't care about it till
them they care mainly about the
publicity.
So I put in capital iron base that was
capital that year. So among all these uh
things I put in. So what you had that
fast day that everybody was saying the
rebap
and even in 770 they also said this and
they also said client base could be
because of that or something else or
maybe because I made the I was very
involved in that that chabas
first time I was still a ber that chabas
the turned where I was standing by and
he said he made point and he said at
first I didn't expected I didn't think
it was me because I you know I never I
was a ber still and I don't remember
doing anything that that warranted it
but then I've said a couple of times
until I was told means you say
that was one there's oh then there's the
there's the letter where
I wrote to
when I was learning with Rahen or
afterwards I had stationary.
is stationary and
he wanted he should write a letter to
the
rabuntim at that time to um you know to
to to urge their followers the national
religious party to leave the government
or to not
yeah so I drew up a letter and since
this was Rev Henkins I had to be a
strict column this you know also So that
miss says when it comes for so I brought
down the pay with the says that there's
there's
you listen to the one
you have to listen to him and then
there's a there's a pag which says even
if the person that has says this
has a certain an ulterior motive. It's
not you also have to listen to him
because he said he said you have to
listen to and I wrote this letter signed
his name and I sent it and I sent it a
copy to the v and then I sent it at that
time the there was no faxes at that time
yet. So it was sent by mail express mail
of federal to be
ber he would be thead. He would bring
over all these letters to every actually
to frame wolf and he would give it to
be. So I sent that I gave it over to
measures would send it to Mecca and I
was told later on that the Reb every
hour as soon as I sent I sent in this
copy of this letter that I wrote the
name of Reben to the Reb. I heard later
on that every hour the Reb
Mecc did it go out yet? Did it go out?
Did you send it to to Becca to to
whatever to in Israel send it or not?
Mhm.
What ended up happening?
So you did this until until you moved
out is
>> Yeah. Yeah. I was over there there's a
whole it's a different
we have to do with I became a oh you
know what it is. I became a
parliamentary advisor to Yuval Nimma. He
was a science minister, an atheist. You
know what that means?
>> Why did you move Israel?
>> My wife wanted to.
>> So, so anyways, I went all the way there
and uh and I was and then 1982. In 1972,
there was a
vote in the about Mahoudi. That's a time
when Abnner Shaki if you remember if you
know if you heard he voted for it and he
was expelled from
>> he voted for for changing the law.
>> Yeah. Everybody was against him even as
he was from the Mdal from National
Religious Party and even the Reb where
he I remember him coming to the the Reb
got up for him a little sort of like
>> he was a big
>> well he was with
it
anyway. So um he um
that time now
a month before Lawrence was a he was the
guy by he was rep representative of the
guy and he was very very labavage he was
in in America as a story this was when I
was in store as a story asked me to go
to him for a shabas program for
I said, you know, he was so I went to
him and I made a a rapport with him. He
didn't know I was
I made a report with him. I made a very
good report with him.
Now
>> when
when I was now when it came to this vote
so word came out that a good I think a
good brought up the vote to embarrass
the mdal embarrassd was all politics
they didn't mean you they didn't mean me
>> they were trying to embarrass them when
which way
>> yeah so that's why I that's why I wrote
the letter to saying that even if it's
they they also knew the rabbi the raim
of of mdal also knew that they're doing
this despite the embarrass it's all
politics one party wants to embarrass
the other party.
>> How is it how are they embarrassing
them? Because because it's like you're
not here you have a we're gonna have
votes for giral you consider yourselves
pro modern orthodox right you consider
so orthodox you're for right you're just
saying you can't go out of the
government because you want to preserve
yiddishkite but you're fine that want to
preserve yudiskite and now you're not
and and they they didn't want to vote
for it they abstained
>> and he's shaky was the only one that
voted for it. They were very much
against him because they didn't want to
give give in to to Lawrence to the
Agura. But then I heard we heard that uh
that
a good might
take
remove the law from the agenda. There
would be no vote on it. The Reb wanted
very much. There should be a vote. Since
I knew Lawrence,
I called him up. I heard about that and
I called him up. I started telling him I
told him who I was if he remembered you
know said listen you can't remove it I
heard you want to remove it by then he
knew I was lab ready because he says
listen no he don't no he said like this
listen we don't want to remove it but if
you have any connection there to the
crowd there make sure you know that that
they should the mdal don't pressure me
pressure them now I was back with that
was it was the middle of the night at
that time I didn't sleep that night that
same night the night afterwards the day
afterwards I was going to the for myas
but meanwhile the same day that morning
till the I was on the phone with the reb
was on the phone and all that certain
point you know I was exhausted and I had
to go into the I was going to the and
going to the I had my you have to have
there's no abundance on there's no
nothing you know no You have to go to
the you have to make and there's no when
all this be with
a couple hours before and was telling me
to do certain things. I said listen I
don't know because I'm going and the reb
is listening. So I said look I don't
know I'm go I have to I mean I I have to
go to the for this tonight I let this I
have to make a and I'll try to do
whatever I can and all that. He pardoned
me. Pardon me. And uh and I did my you
know whatever
fasting
and when I went in when I went into the
I didn't expect I never spoke to the
Reb. I never wrote to the whenever I had
it was
but whenever I wrote to the was my
personal if I had personal problems a
personal and especially when I go into I
would never speak about these things and
all that so that when I went to it was
only like you know
and that's it. So when I went to the Reb
and the Reb just he added something that
he never added till now. He said
this.
>> Thank you very much. And it seems that
there's more to say. So
perhaps we could do a part two. And
thank you.
>> Okay.
That's me.