Ep. 49: What Was The Rebbe’s Childhood Like with Nuchie Schapiro

The Rebbe immediately stands up and greets his Melamed. Reb Zalman would not, and nor would any Hasid, sit during Yechidus. It's not appropriate to sit in front of the Rebbe. The Rebbe would not sit in front of his Melamed. So, they both stood. Yechidus went on for [music] somewhere about 45 minutes, and they were standing the entire time. The name of this podcast is Among Hasidim. If you know anything about the Hasidic way of life, you know that one of our greatest pillars, and the best way that we can give the Rebbe Nachas, is how we show up for one another. We celebrate each other's Simchas, and just as importantly, we stand shoulder to shoulder in times of need. Right now, there's a Mishpacha, a beautiful family of Hasidim, that needs our immediate support and Chizuk during a time of unimaginable pain and sorrow. A dedicated Shlucha, the devoted mother, just passed away at the young age of 47. For years, she battled the terrible Machla heroically, full of unwavering Emunah. Friends of the family have come together to launch a very critical campaign. It's important to support them financially during this devastating transition, but perhaps even more importantly, it is to let the Reiter family know that they're not alone. We want them to feel that Hasidim all over the world are standing right beside them, wrapping them in love and support. Please, open up your hearts and be as generous as you can. Let's show them that we are Takka Among Hasidim, and that we take care of our own in their deepest moments of grief. Please, right now, log on to charity.com /reiterfamilyfund. That's charity.com / r e i t e r family fund. Let's be there for the Reiter family with brochos of a kits of a ronan a shaikh ni afar a mashiach now. I'm Yossi Kleinman. Welcome to among chassidim by their hair, an ongoing fabrengen about life as a chassid, our vibrant connection with the Rebbe, and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. >> [music] >> Shalom aleichem Nochum, how are you? Baruch Hashem, how are you Yossi? It's great to be here. Baruch Hashem, thank you so much for being here. I'm very excited to talk. And the topic that I want to discuss with you is you have published a new book and I'll allow you to tell us the title of the book. And in it, you discuss the entire history of your name is Nochum Shapiro, so of the Shapiro family dynasty, whatever you want to call it. But it really has a lot more than just their story. It's a story of Lubavitch. It's a Lubavitcher mishpacha going way back. And there's a lot of rich history that's regarding that, your family, but regarding Lubavitch in general. And I'm very excited to hear about it. And my first question is what was the inspiration for this? How did it begin? What was the process to get it done before we get into the content of the book itself? Ooh, that's a great question. Um when somebody doesn't know something you get highly motivated to figure it out. So actually my lack of knowledge is what really propelled me to go seek it out, learn it, and ultimately publish it. So just to take you back a tiny bit, b'chlall, this is a little bit of a separate component, but b'klal, I've always had an incredibly deep appreciation for Jewish history, Lubavitch history. Um, I remember when I was really young, when Shmuel Kunda put out when Zeidy was young, it was it was wonderful. It was actually the first time that there was a relatable piece of history because it wasn't something from thousands or hundreds of years ago, and it mamash felt relatable. And I remember really, really enjoying that because I felt it was the first time that it was tangible. Um, I'm sure all of your viewers and listeners know that we've heard hundreds of stories about the kretchma and the podits and the balagola and there's always a bandit and a dungeon. And it just it was a combination of of, you know, lack of relatability, but also frightfulness. Like, "Oh my god, somebody again is about to get murdered. Someone's about to become homeless." I always had a lot of almost like stress because you don't really know what's going on. We're in this horrible, horrible prison, you know, Eastern European world, which ironically is 100% true, and it we go into it in the book that none of that was imagination. The point is that when I finally remember, year, we're talking years ago, we're talking about uh, I don't know, the early '90s. So, when Shmuel Kunda came out when Zeidy was young, it mamash felt and I and I remember that being the first like, "Okay, what did what did this do for me?" It enabled me to have a sense of where we're from. Now, obviously, that was at a very young age. Fast forward, uh, you know, years later, I'm I I think it was my first or second day in Base Medrash in Morristown. And you went to Morristown as well, right? Yes. So, perhaps things have changed because at the time, when you walk up to the third floor where the zal is, right next to the zal there is a library, but right between there's a tiny closet. I remember passing by wondering, "A minute, the zal's to the right, the library's to the left, what's this mystery door?" And I knock at the door and it's it's probably a once upon a time a janitor's closet. It's the tape library, which I can't imagine exists anymore. Anyway, in the tape library of I get the catalog and I start perusing and I see there's a rabble Rabbi Berel Wein who has momish a thorough A to Z on Jewish history, which I've never seen anything of that nature whatsoever. And I thoroughly enjoyed that. I was in Morristown uh for 2 years, so I slowly slowly went through hundreds of of Rabbi Wein's tapes and then uh fortunately when I went to uh Miami the next year, they also had it in their tape library. So, again, a bit of a a bit of an intro that I've always had a deep appreciation because essentially it shapes where we are today. There's no consideration that what happened yesterday is is not is is of no concern to me and obviously not just me as a person with appreciation for the past and how it shapes the how it shapes where we are today. That's be far, you know, our people. And the way we and the way Obviously, Torah is not a history book. Of course, that's obvious. I'm not saying that. But, the way the past shapes us who we are today is obviously a big foundational part of of Yiddishkeit. So, I just wanted to give you that sort of like independent piece that I always had a deep appreciation um for Jewish history be far and [snorts] Lubavitch history. Fine. So, fast forward and the the fact that I didn't know anything about my family history is uh is a little bit unique because it's very common you have a father and the listeners out there have, you know, parents tell their children. It's that pashut. You tell your children the stories of your parents and grandparents and that's uh that's commonplace in in in the world. In my case, it was a tad different because unfortunately, my father was nifter when I was extremely young uh and uh you know, we'll get into him a little bit later, but my father >> whole chapter in the book about your father, right? Or multiple chapters. Yeah, there's a whole uh section. >> Section. Section. Yeah. Yeah. So, my father uh I guess I'll jump to the end, but we'll get more detail later, but my father passed away when he was 40 billion. He was 41 years old. And I was Your father is, I believe, Yitzchok Shapiro, who was the who was known to many as the principal of Oholei Torah, right? That that's what he's famous for in in Crown Heights. That that's right. He was he was the assistant principal in Oholei Torah. Well, he originally started out first as as a melamed, as a rebbe, and then he then became the assistant principal. So, by the time he passed away in tough shinan um he was the assistant principal and I was 6 years old. So, you could imagine being 6 years old um what that's like. But, as it pertains to this part of the discussion there were there were no stories. It was a drastic void. I knew my zaida, Reb Lipa Shapiro um was a very holy and special person. So, I knew you know, you just know certain things and pick up on certain things. I knew that my alter zaida, my namesake, Nachum Shapiro, was incredible. And my other alter zaida, Reb Shneur Zalman of Liadi, and Reb Shneur Zalman of Liadi, and So, some of these things were extremely vague. And quite simply because the void was there. >> [snorts] >> Independently independently I always appreciated and loved bumping into people who would say something like, "Oh, I remember your father. He was my melamed in Oholei Torah. Or he was my principal in Oholei Torah." Or maybe a community member cuz he was extremely active in the Crown Heights community. Um doing amazing amazing things for people, you know, still a hate. Um making sure to retain their dignity. So, it would be these bump ins every once in a while where I would get these 30-second golden nuggets. And quite frankly um those 30-second nuggets honestly brought him back to life. It's a brought him back to life for 30 seconds. So, over the years between these two needs that I had, I decided, okay, I'm going to write a book on my father. And but my father's story is my story. But the story is bigger. It's his parents, his great crap his grandparents, etc. So, my father's story, hence my family's story, is really one one large unit. So, between wanting to write a book about my father and wanting to know more about my family history and my extreme appreciation and love for Jewish history and Lubavitch history but all that definitely that was sort of the the that was what propelled me. So, the actual first action taken was in 2010. We were sitting in Crown Heights for my for my father's yard site. I think it was a 19th or 19th or 20th yard site. And my uncles and aunts were there. And it's a yard site for bringing which anyone has been to a yard site for bringing, I'm sure many people have. It's not the easiest for bringing. So, I basically took out my at the time my smartphone iPhone 3. And I said, I know I know very little about the family history. Please share with me. So, I put the phone down, hit record, and it was just phenomenal. So, all my uncles and aunts, you know, chiming in, throwing in stories, episodes, events. And this is going back to 2010. That was the first let's call it interview that I conducted. I wouldn't say in that exact moment I told myself, oh, I'm I'm going to write a book. But I definitely started the journey. And that was the first piece and then I slowly started collecting stories and documents and photos and And yeah, so slowly slowly over the years as it built, you know, it's it's obviously many many years and um I hope I answered your question. You did a very good job. Um so the final product, you want to tell us the title of the book? Sure. The title of the book is the entire book. Meaning the the title of the book is is Mom's the summary of what everything is inside. It's called Legacy of Resilience, the remarkable journey of the Shapiro family. And if you read the book for 5 minutes, you'll have why it's called Legacy of Resilience because that is exactly what it is, the unbelievable capacity to maintain their Yiddishkeit and their Chassidishkeit and even begashmius staying alive is really what it is. And the cover itself um exemplifies that as well. I have a copy right here, so I know most people are listening, but basically as you can see, it's a dark dark foggy uh forest, but the brightness and the light of the Torah um on the horizon is what was their their guiding their guiding their guiding life, their guiding principle. Okay. So, I want to get to the content of the book. And um but before that, from my uh perusing through the book and from our conversations, you really uh come out with that it's not only the the legacy and the story of the Shapiro family, but what you have here is the story of Lubavitcher Chassidim and the story of the Jews in Eastern Europe and and and the way Chassid behaves and the way Chassid lives the day-to-day. So, there's a tremendous benefit uh for the broader community. In general, I find I think it's a benefit to know about people in general. There's a lot of books now being published, the stories of Chassidim, the Rebbe encouraged very much Chassidim to write down their zachronos and their memories and memoirs, etc. But beyond that, I mean, there's a the reason for that is because it's not just about an individual, it's about what that what those individuals represented and the background of of, you you the lives that they were living, right? Does that Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, just to just to uh clar- um add to that point in my in my preface uh where I talk about, you know, why I wrote the book, but I I also bring a phenomenal letter from the Frieder Rebbe while the Frieder Rebbe was in uh Atvask in uh I believe it was '34. Specifically, this is already back then, back still in when Frieder Rebbe was still in Poland um specifying and I have excerpts of that letter how imperative it is to retell the stories of great Chassidim. Let alone we're not talking about oh years later in the safety of America. We're still talking about in the 1930s, as you could imagine. Right. Um and yeah, absolutely. The book The book the protagonist may be the Shapiro family. So, it it's it's about these individuals, but it's str- it's absolutely not solely about them. Um it is the story of Lubavitch of the last 100 years. It's basically the story of Lubavitch going from the mid-1800s pretty much to the present or roughly to the year 2000. And while uh there are while there are many uh let's call them major characters. Like I said uh there's Reb Zalman Velinkin, Reb Yisrael Yitzchak Immanuel, Reb Lipa Shapiro, and my father, and many, many, many, many other Chassidim. Because, and I'm kind of only like I guess materializing this later because I have an incredible appreciation for Jewish history, it was imperative that the reader see the broader picture every step along the way. So, if I'm going to talk about a town, a city, an event, a place, it's not just about this person and this is the train he took. I mean, it it's that too, but what is going on for a Yid in in the country at that time? I'll give you a tiny example that really is imperative to see how much broader this is this Lubavitch story than just the And I'm not minimizing I'm very proud of the being a Shapiro family story, but it's not exclusively. >> [snorts] >> L'moshul, I I could imagine most of the viewers are familiar with the popular episode of The Great Escape where many, many, many Lubavitcher Chassidim had uh the miraculous escape from Russia right after the war. I mean, I'll leave every detail you could check it out in the book, but right after the war there was a miraculous escape and they ultimately ended up in a displaced persons camp overwhelmingly in a in a camp called Pocking, which is in Germany right over the border outside of Austria. Pocking is the place. Pocking is the name of the city. Yes, Pocking is the name of the city. It's about I think it's not terribly far from Munich. I mean, not walking distance, but that'd be the nearest major be Munich, but it's just over the Austrian border into Germany. When I write about that chapter, obviously I you know, you So, the whole book is designed very very comfortably. So, you read the chapter and then when the chapter is done there's a tremendous amount of photos and documents that corresponds everything you just read. There's over 550 photos and documents in the book. I know I know a lot of people today they're more into audio book or like you know, I went to L.A. today. I'm not a big reader. You know, I've heard I've heard it all. >> [laughter] >> I've heard it all. But, this is extremely user-friendly in that regard cuz my my main mission was that it should feel like an immersive experience. So, the martial that chapter on Pocking you get an incredible feeling for everything what it was like to There's There's copies of like the cards you get. Like when you come in you have to You're a nobody. You don't even have documentation. You don't exist. So, your registration card. What about your Ksuba? You have to shred your Ksuba to hide your Russian identity. Hashem someone finds out you're Russian you are in severe trouble. So, they quickly have to run to the Rav and you see the day of arrival is actually the next day cuz I guess maybe they came in at 4:00 in the morning. Then they run straight to the Rav and get a Ksuba to Erica sir. And then which are a replacement Ksuba. And then it goes on and on into the people that visited and and all the other events, you know, the Rashag's visit, the setup of Timche Timimim, the Sfarim that they used, the setup of the Chadorim, the infrastructure, Kav Yakav Lakoylo, they were training people to be Shachtem. The point is that it's way beyond way beyond just um um the family. It is absolutely the the the history of Lubavitch and you see what the Lubavitcher said them went through in that time. Uh there's actually a fascinating letter from from the head of Vaad Hatzalah who sent it to the United States and it specifically talks about some of the ins and outs. I almost want to it's it's it's so juicy that I couldn't edit it down. Obviously there's a lot of things that didn't make the book, but that letter is so geschmack that I ended up putting in the whole letter. It's actually a four and a half page letter. It's one of the biggest documents in the entire book which Baruch Hashem my intuition was correct. A lot of people gave me feedback like wow and it's a lot of the interactions between the people within the camp in real time. Cuz the motive at the time was that he send a letter to the rabbis in the United States explaining what's going on and we need your help. That was the the premise for the Vaad Hatzalah letter. I think it was a dear leaders of of of dear Jewish leaders of the United States of America. That's what it says I Um so I only use that chapter as an example and then of course you have visits from Reb Laser Silver and uh you see Rabbi Benjamin Gorodetsky there as well and um and then there's a nearby visit from um Eisenhower. So the point is that you definitely get to see the bigger picture and that I just use that as a moshel because the chapter on Packing is incredibly visually immersive. I was going to say that when I was looking at the book I was really blown away specifically about that chapter [snorts] with all the photographs and documents you had on Packing. I mean for I I were any of them are they are they newly released cuz I for me I didn't I haven't seen I would say many of them. So some I'll explain. So think about think about this. Imagine you're operating God willing Hashem or you're operating the the DC Washington the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC or the Joint Distribution Committee, or or YIVO. Any of these massive historical institutions. And comes COVID, cuz I started this well, you know, prior to COVID. Again, this was a passion project chiseling away for many, many years. But during COVID, naturally, massive segments of these organizations had to shut down. So, the museums weren't open they really took advantage of the time cuz they have everybody on payroll. They're like, "Okay, let's archive stuff." So, they definitely I I was there at a fortunate time where they definitely started to archive a tremendous amount of things that were inaccessible prior to that. Um Additionally, so that's that's definitely true why you'll see some stuff that and and it's credited. You look in the back, I 520 documents, every single document is sourced. You you'll know exactly where I got every single one. Obviously, I wanted to give credit to the to the origin, but also for yourself from a research perspective, like where where did this come from? And some of it were from Those are some of the major institutions. I mean, there's more major institutions. They're all thanked in the acknowledgement section. But some of them came from extremely obscure places. I mean, I even met third and fourth cousin Valinkins from Yekaterinoslav who still live there in Dnipro, and they provided photos for me that were were unbelievable goals. So, yeah, it's it's basically almost two books. There's the written component and then there's the visuals. Amazing. Okay. So, I think we got through our conversation. We got a little bit or of the background of what it takes, the labor of love that went into it. So, maybe you can start storytelling and tell us a little bit. Maybe we'll go chronologically, you know, how it all began and go through the generations. So, So, the format because the central figures are my grandparents. My grandfather, his name was Reb Lipa Shapiro. And my Bobby, her name was Hana Valinkin. Obviously, became Shapiro. So, they are the central figures. So, the way to simplify it was the first two chapters. I went back into uh Lipa Shapiro's origin. And then, um like where he comes from, his parents, his grandparents, the whole lu. And at the end of chapter two, he's a bocher. Starts chapter three, it goes back to where the Valenkin family originates, and then chapter four, and then at the end of chapter four, Hana Valenkin as well is um of marriageable age. Chapter five is when they meet, and that's when the story uh so to speak continues with them both as a as a unit. So, the Shapiro family, um interestingly, does not come from some of the famous Shapiros. Uh I think I've rece- I got this my entire life. Not not in Lubavitch, cuz in Lubavitch, frankly, there are not a lot. There aren't There It's It's a very popular Jewish name. But in Lubavitch, there are very very few Shapiros. Um we are you know, we're not a I mean, we're a large family, but we're not the only ones, but almost the only ones, you know, if you want to do it by number. So, but in the Velt, I would I I remember over the years hearing, "Oh, Shapiro, are you a Kohanim?" I'm like, I I Why would I No, I don't know why that would be. Um Gali Amuka, you send you have other, you know, uh Remeyer Shapiro. So, we know that the Shapiro's a place. Speyer, right? Correct, but that that is correct, and I I note that in the book. So, so we have no I could not find any evidence that we come from Speyer. Speyer is which is uh Yiddish was Speyer. So, it was a city in Germany that nebach was uh uh mostly most of the people were killed, and the few survivors took the name Speyer, and a twist on it was like Shapiro. It's like you are from the survivors of that city. So, can sign, I don't know. Um in an interview, by the way, I have to pause for an incredible thank you to Mrs. Strauss. I don't know her first name. Some people call her Bubby Strauss, but I'm sure Bubby's not a real name. She is a Bais Rivkah teacher for many, many years, many years, and she um has a project for her students, a social studies project that they have to interview they have to interview their grandparents. And um unbelievable foresight, phenomenal foresight. And that was incredible a resource for me because think about it, you're trying to collect information on someone who's already passed. So, one of the best ways to do it is I went to all the Aina Klach uh specifically the girls cuz um I don't believe Altera had this project, but if they did I I missed it. Doesn't sound like Altera. Right. >> Is that when they made the scrap Everyone makes a scrapbook? Is that that project? Correct. And you're and you're and it's very flexible, you're correct. So, many make scrapbooks with photos and documents. >> I have a sister who was in Bais Rivkah. I think I remember this project. It's golden. And and and Mrs. Strauss is Mamusha a genius because when I was collecting information I and I got a lot from many, many sources, but that was golden. So, and I thank all of my cousins who provided their their projects to me. >> [snorts] >> And um they're all in the acknowledgement section, but that was that was unbelievable. So, there's several Some people did it scrapbook style, like my wife still has hers from Bais Rivkah from her family. Um later on the teachers did it in Q&A format because what happened was you have a big sister, you reprint your big sister's project, and so they wanted it to be novel. So, they switched it over the years from, you know, a written essay to uh to here's a you know, you you you have to submit a bunch of questions. I think one of the funniest ones because I found the one of my my Zayde's later interviews with a cousin. Uh it actually this part didn't make it into the book cuz I'll be honest, I didn't know where to insert it cuz the interview I used the material. I I used the material and I just I didn't know where to insert the following. So, one of the questions were what was the cost of Coca-Cola when you were a child? So, um I uh you know, my zeida obviously uh had a field day with that one. Coca-Cola. >> [laughter] >> If we're lucky we had a potato. Um, because they had to because my cousin was just sharing and recycling and no one was per- But I this is the part I'm I'm clarifying why the so A, massive across the type to her. So, one of one one of those interviews one of the children said, one of the ainaklach said, "Where Where's this Shapiro name? How far does it go back?" And my zeida Lipa said, "It goes back as far as I know." It goes back as far as I know. So, meaning to say we were always Shapiro. It's very common that people change their names, countries. It's extremely normative. Extremely normative. Shortened names, different names. Uh, in our case, uh, to our to our knowledge, uh, it's always been Shapiro, but not related to some of the uh, famous Shapiros. >> [snorts] >> Um, so my zeida Lipa, um, was born in a town called Karlevich. Karlevich or Kralovitz. But Karlevich was like the Yiddish way to pronounce it. Which is kind of fun, by the way, because going through all of Russia, it's very beautiful to see and it's also very insightful how Yidden always had their own nicknames to their towns. So, I >> [laughter] >> I laughed at this later to myself when people say Kronhights. And I thought, "You know what? Glad that that's the way it was." [laughter] It was always like that. Um, >> It's not only that, Jews had their own geography in general. Right. >> If you If you come Lita, what what what's Lita? You know, by the time that they were saying that, they might have been Poland, they might have been this, might have been that, but Jews had their own geography in also. Right. Right. We We lived in our own universe of of safety-wise. Very Marshall Lemberg. It wasn't Lemberg anymore, but Lemberg because it's it was originally, uh, German sounding, which is obviously close to Yiddish. So, the Yidden always called it Lemberg even after it switched to Lvov, which is the border city between, um, um, Soviet the the Union, um, and Poland, which will we'll to later. So um, my Zayda Lipa was born in in Karalievich. His father Nahum who's my namesake as well was also born there. His father was Yehuda Leib came originally from Minsk. He was not a Lubavitcher. His machuten Heshel Dubrovsky brought him close to Lubavitch. Now when I say Heshel Dubrovsky I know the average listener thinks oh yeah the writer he was nifter maybe 10 15 years ago not him. His namesake. So as you can imagine if you just follow the year line that the Heshel Dubrovsky Heshel Dubrovsky that you're thinking of we're not referring to him. His namesake was a machuten to Yehuda Leib Shapiro and he is the name moved to Karalievich and he I guess you could say sort of became close to to Lubavitch. His kids he had nine children. One of them was which my namesake Nahum Shapiro. It's a little bit unclear if the boys there were five boys if they all went to Temche Temimim. That part's a tad unclear but it is very clear that essentially all of his nine kids were Lubavitch. One of which was my great grandfather and Nahum and then Nahum had >> grandfather went to Temche Temimim? It's a it's a little bit unclear. >> know? It's right it's a little bit unclear. I mean it's extremely clear from I have a I have a pan Let's put it this way I'll tell you what I do have. I have a pan that he sent to the Fiddler in 1934. It's in the book. It's beautifully translated perfectly into English. There's also a lot of a lot of footnotes because some of it had to be coded. You couldn't just freely write a letter. We it's I'm not trying to sound like oh you have no idea what it was like but it's true. The lot the Fiddler was out of Russia at that point. Correct. So when you're writing your pan to Poland it's still going through the postal service. So this pan that went to the Fiddler it had to be it had to be coded. >> [snorts] >> So I I have on this topic I have I have two. I have some panim from the Bishop Yuro who was in Leningrad in the early 30s. And his panim were deeply coded. And I And thanks to the help of my um my uncles um helped me decode you know, little The little ones were easy. The mashal they referred to the Fiddler Crab as their father. They would never say rebbe because it's you know, it's too dangerous. So, they would refer to him as father. Obviously, you had a lot of yidden. We sadly know the afsechi. I mean I mean that already was gone by about 1929, but nonetheless, we knew that they had easy access to translate your letter no matter what it was in Lashon Kodesh or Yiddish, no problem. So, anyway, in that in that incredible pan, which is a masterful window into what was going on, you clearly see he's writing like a chassid. So, Nachum uh the closest I could get was documentation coming from him. So, it appears that Yudel Leib's children were all Lubavitch between how they uh lived their lives, who they married, all their grandkids. So, it's just a little bit hard to tell because because I wasn't there. So, I'm like just going to feed off the documentation. So, Nachum's letter um included a lot of beautiful things. One thing was very notable. So, it almost may contradict everything that we think about the times. Not all, but some. So, one of the things he mentions he would love a bracha for his son Lippa, who's of marriageable age, to find a shidduch. There's just one little problem. Can't find a frum girl. There's just no frum people around. Where Where'd all the frum people go? There are you know, I I'm no expert in the shidduch space. I I don't know when people discuss shidduchim if that's the number one hardship when trying to find a shidduch. Um obviously, there's many many things to deal with. But I I think if you asked a frum person today, are there are there like like there's no more from people, right? There's a Hus color massive wave and they gobbled up everybody and we're gone. So anyway, that was a very very insightful piece. It's a longer pun and it's very insightful. So nachum And I I I I don't want the listeners to think for a second that I'm using this term lightly because I definitely know people, you know, Meskadoshian people use terms lightly. He was mamesh a boki bishas. Realistically, he mamesh sat learn all day and uh and that was his life always learning. Um he had a he was a bookkeeper and uh when he wasn't working, he was learning and he he he very strongly made sure that his kids adapted that same thing. Another major thing that I found is there's a minig Erev Pesach to read there's a letter um uh from uh Rebbe Shimon from Ostropoller to read his letter. There's a letter it's sort of like uh he it's um how do I describe it? It's a lot about Yetziat Mitzrayim. Um it's I guess you could say sort of like uh Kabbalah. Anyways, it's called the Iggeres uh Iggeres um Shimshon Ostropoller. So back then in Russia wasn't like today where you go on chabad.com you order any safer you want and they didn't have any sefer. And he wanted to keep up this minig every single Erev Pesach. So he hand wrote it and he had a handwritten copy that he kept till his eventual passing in the United States. So I'm very fortunate to have a copy of that it's in the book and um it's incredible to see a handwritten letter and it gives you just a little bit of a window into what life was like for Yidden in the old country um specifically somebody wanted to learn something what that meant uh right now you go on Safari I mean it's I I I I I don't mean to sound dated every time I you know oh it's amazing what we have now but But true and I think that you'll have a deep appreciation when reading the book, getting a historical glimpse into what life was truthfully like. So, Metsad uh Nachum, just to give you a tiny glimpse, so he had he has his handwritten this handwritten um um pen There's a handwritten pen, and then there's also a handwritten letter uh um that he would learn era of Pesach. So, uh I don't know if he went to Temche Mimim, it's a little bit unclear. His younger brother absolutely did because I actually have a Temche Mimim picture. I'm sure some some of your viewers have seen they used to take pictures of Temche Mimim. Um Not in Lubavitch, you're talking about somewhere else. Um That's a good question. It could have been It could have been cuz his brother Avraham Yishaya Let me think a second. Was it actually in Lubavitch? That's a good question. I I don't remember offhand. Um Right, cuz Temche Mimim opened in late 1800s. Um did he Yeah, no, it is When did When did Temche Mimim leave Lubavitch? I think it's Anzai I think. Yeah, then it then it's possible. Yeah, then it's uh >> Lubavitch, yeah. Yeah, no, that it's possible then it was actually in Lubavitch. Yeah. Yeah, cuz he he eventually died in the Siege of Leningrad in um in '41. But um so but getting back to the family as a whole, I go through a lot about um all the siblings. There were nine siblings. Nachum was um uh one of them, my great-grandfather, and uh some survived, never some did not survive. And then uh from there we go into uh his children. One of them is which my grandfather of Lippa, and he's one of five children, um and some survived, and some for unfortunately did not survive. And it goes from there of what it was like to learn in Temche Mimim. Now, at this point when Reb Lippa when my Zeidy went, Temche Mimim was this after the Bolshevik Revolution, um things have drastically changed. I mean, even by the time my Zayde went to Kremenchuk, Kremenchuk had already moved. So, if you want to get an incredible insight, it's only in chapters two, an incredible insight what, you know, is I maybe it should be like mandatory reading for bachurim before they go to yeshiva. Oh, the food is no good. >> [laughter] >> Just read this chapter. The underground. Oh my goodness. It's It's It's the the the between the underground, between your life being at risk, between the lack of food, the lack of uh of lodging. Um and in the meantime, my Zayde took it as the best experience of his life. In one of the he he bounced around to several yeshivas, uh not because he got kicked out, because because sadly they were always shut down, uh and they always did their best to The communists kicked them out. Correct. The communists would shut it down, and then they would um move on to another location where it was, I guess you could say, ahead of the communist. So, he ended up going to four yeshivas over the course of uh roughly four and change years. And um there's a great great piece in this I heard from an interview from him. At this point, I I want to definitely thank my cousin Mendy Shapiro, who as a bachur in in mesivta, so imagine he's in Sh'or Yoshuv mesivta, he's 14 years old, he sat down with my Zayde uh many many years ago, and over the course of a uh a year, 6 hours of recording. That was incredible, which was one of the pieces of material that I used for the book. Um it was on a cassette, uh poor quality, um and you had to listen of course, and my Zayde was later on in life, uh so that was tough extrapolation, extremely tough, probably one of the toughest parts of this entire project. >> [snorts] >> And and in there, he he he talks about uh a lot of the details of yeshiva. He talks a lot a lot of things, but I'm just saying specifically yeshiva. And Reb Itche Demasmid, and there's a whole section on that, came to his yeshiva, and I believe he spent the winter there, and he He very close with him, everything from being mesmerized by him, and he highly influenced the person he became. Everything from the way he learned, he would be busy all day long, you know, in the Yeshiva and everything like that. And as soon as the evening came, cuz they actually stayed in the same place, like everyone had like a nook and a cranny to sort of sleep. There was no fancy dormitory with a comfortable mattress. So in this case, there was a cook for the Yeshiva, and this and and she had like almost like a little extra space in the kitchen, so they put like two beds. So he would be there, and Reb Itche would be there, and comes, you know, 11:30 at night, when one would think you're about to go to sleep, cuz you have a big day of learning tomorrow, Reb Itche put his feet in the cold water and opened up a Torah and started to learn. And that and in his words, he basically never saw him sleep the entire the entire duration of that winter when he came when he came to the Yeshiva. And and there's a lot more detail on um on Reb Itche and his incredible him as an incredible individual, of course, but also his influence on my Zayde and the Yeshiva as a whole. So there's a lot on the underground Yeshiva, which which I I I know it's not an easy fix to say "Bochurim learn this prior to day one." But I I think it's extremely insightful, because a lot of the a lot of the stuff with these personally, if I read something or read a story or something, it's still vague. You know, pardon me for like drawing back to one of my original statements about the Podits and the Krechma, like it's just a little bit vague. I don't actually understand what's flying. You're telling me like a like a like a dot on a on a on a big screen. I don't actually know what's going on. So anyway, this chapter, chapter two, about what his Yeshiva life was like running around, will tell you the story of Lubavitch, of what it meant to be in Russia at that time period in the '20s, running around to Yeshivas, and the '20s and '30s. Um and particularly in English, by the way, I just want to comment quickly, there's not there's a lot of incredible English material, but I have found in my research, um, that there's not a tremendous amount in English on these time periods. So, um, just, um, noting that that if someone is interested in something English in that time period, I think this would suit them. Okay. And your grandfather at this time he never Did he see the Friediker Rebbe at all? Or No. At this point I I don't get the impre- I See, this is, this is one of the toughest parts because I did it after he had passed. The impression I got, and I'm probably going to get a phone call afterwards, "How did you not know?" I did so much research over the course of all these many, many years. Again, I started this, we're talking about, you know, 16 years ago. I don't get the impression that he met the Friediker Rebbe. It I I I don't have anything to say that he did. He lived in Karlovich, then he left Karlovich to go to the Yeshivas, >> [snorts] >> and, uh, then eventually he came back to Karlovich, and then he, uh, migrated to, um, Leningrad, which a lot of Hasidim went to Lenin- This is after the Friediker Rebbe had already left. He didn't come to Leningrad until, um, >> [clears throat] >> um, like the early '30s. So, the Friediker Rebbe what he he came he came to Leningrad after the Friediker Rebbe was was was was no longer there. And then, uh, from Leningrad, he was there for a while. However, he he was there for several years, ultimately got married. So, when he got married, which I guess we'll get into in a second, he got married, spent some time in his wife's hometown, and then came back to Leningrad. So, the point is, I have no documentation to state that he ever actually met the Friediker Rebbe in person. They were never in the same place at the same time. I do have correspondence. I have panim that he sent the Friediker Rebbe, and of course later I have letters that he received from the Friediker Rebbe, but that's of course out when they finally got out of Russia. So, no, I I don't believe they ever met in person. Ever? Okay. Yep. Um, so I want to hear let's hear let's hear about their marriage and then let's hear about your grandmother and her father that I was allowed to let's go down that route. Sure. So now you have um this man Reb Lipa Shapiro who after going through Tam Hatzmimim he came back to uh Karlovich. He had the incredible privilege of learning with his uncle whose nickname was Fetter Rov. Uh this was Rabbi Mendel Dobrovsky Mashasha Going and he's talked about in the book a lot. Uh the 10-second version is that he actually was the ראש ישיבה in Tam Hatzmimim for a period of time. Um anyway you could read about him there but the point is now you have Reb Lipa who is well educated in Tam Hatzmimim and then had a חברותא with uh with his uncle Rabbi Mendel Dobrovsky and then moved on to Leningrad. In Leningrad he started working and there was just before his arrival there was an establishment of let's call it a half-day yeshiva. It was called Tiferes Bachurim. And the Fiddler was extremely proud about it and um there's a there's a lot of people involved and sadly a lot of tragedy involved because of the Russians but we'll get to that shortly but the the short version is that he was in very involved in Tam Hatzmimim and excuse me in Tiferes Bachurim and he was a maggid shiur there which was which was a massive ordeal. It was all done in secret. So now you have a single individual and he's there. His cousin he has a cousin by the name of Meyer Dobrovsky right? I mentioned a moment ago his uncle is Mendel Dobrovsky so his son marries a girl by the name of Dina Volynkin the daughter of Reb Schneur Zalman Volynkin. So his cousin said made the shidduch. He's like my my my wife has a sister and you're my cousin. I think that would be great. And sure enough he was right. So Reb Lipa Shapiro gets married in a backyard on a Friday afternoon in Yekaterinoslav to Chana Volynkin the daughter of Reb Schneur Zalman Volynkin who was the Rebbe's childhood friend and classmate. Now, who is he? Probably the most secret Not secret. I don't want it to sound suspicious secret. I mean, most unknown story. Because he is a fascinating, beyond fascinating individual. Nothing's ever been published on him. And I guess it's my duty as his great-grandson to do so, right? Who Who else is going to do it? Um there have been many articles. Don't get me wrong. There have been articles. There've been beautiful cherubs. A tremendous amount of help came from my my cousin, who's his namesake, um Reb Shneur Zalman of Liadi, who for his wedding did an incredible cherub in Lashon Kodesh with a lot of interviews. And thankfully to him, this was in the late '90s, so a lot of people were still alive. Um and he was an incredible help. But the point is that uh there's never been written a a any book on him. He comes from a town, Podobranka. So, half the audience is, "Oh, Podobranka. Of course I know Podobranka." Podobranka is like a household name. Podobranka is a city in in Belarus. Uh uh It It bordered It did a border. Well, I mean, it's in the book, but I I memorized every detail. It is right either it bordered Belarus or it's it's in Belarus. It was a very very holy town. Um actually, the Maharash said a minor veer because there was a khaseneh um [snorts] that he came for. But the point is, it was an extremely holy town. And he was born in in um 1890 1870 1878. About a month after Reb Levik. After or before? Pardon me. But within a month. They were both born within a month. >> his father. Correct. Oh, yes. Reb Levik, thank you. Reb Levik, the Rebbe's father. Um and they were born about a month apart from each other. And they were very privileged to learn together as children. They were childhood uh khavrusas. I mean, obviously things were very different back then. Your kheder was basically your your local shul. And they would learn. Um they also were highly influenced by Reb Zalman Haikin as well, who taught them as well. So, anyway, this is the world where Reb Schneur Zalman of Liadi was born. To to my knowledge, uh he was always Lubavitch. It appears it appears they go back as far as the as the as the Alter Rebbe. It was a little bit hard to do a like a ben acher ben, um but it it appears that they go back to the Alter Rebbe the Liadi kins um in terms of being Lubavitch. >> [snorts] >> Um his his his childhood was was very unique in that regard. The city of Podobranka was also a stopover when going to see their Rebbe. So, obviously it was extremely unusual to uh it was a great privilege to see their Rebbe, but they had the the unique privilege that when the chassidim would would go on their way, they would stop in for bringing the preparation and of course on their way home give chazara. Um and that was an incredible part of their life. So, just being in route to their Rebbe changed your whole life drastically. It's very interesting like perspective, right? Like your entire childhood could be predicated on the geography of your city's location. And that's going to shape your entire future. Who'd think about that? Makes sense. Sure, but I guess today when you're thinking of what's a nice community to live, let's say someone uh whatever, the Anash communities. I don't know there's 50 sprinkled Anash communities in the United States. Where am I going to live? So, I'm sure people are thinking about the schools and and the chassidishkeit of the neighborhoods and all these kinds of other things. It's just a very unique perspective. It's like, "Okay, I'm going to pick the one that's in route to Lubavitch, you know, because I'm going to get the passerbyers. I'm going to get the visitors." Anyway, >> [snorts] >> um so, his uh his father was a shochet, and as we know, um it was always like this in in the old country that the shochet, I mean, the shochtim today obviously still hear shamayim, but it was very normative that the shochet was a basically like the mashpia of the town, almost like the second to the rav um cuz you obviously have to have tremendous yiras shamayim to be a shochet. So, um his father um was a shochet and um he So, he went to cheder, learned was very close with Reb Levi Yitzchak and his father, and that was his upbringing. There's a a tremendous amount more detail in the book about his childhood, and eventually his visit to the Rebbe at his shop, getting out of getting drafted, which was uh mamash a miracle. He was one of nine children. He was one of nine children, and um obviously Tomchei Tmimim didn't really exist at the time. Um he's, you know, like I said, he was born in 1878. Um eventually gets married, turn of the century in 1900. His shver is also a shochet. So, ultimately he moved to his wife's town, which was very, very nearby, and uh his shver ultimately uh trained him um to be a shochet, and that is how um in in in um and that is sort of how his marriage life began. Reb Levi Yitzchak, as we know, um became the rav of Yekaterinoslav, which is modern-day Dnepr. The the Dnipro, I think it's called. Oh, cuz it was Dnepropetrovsk, and then in like They call it Dnipro now. Dnipro, it changed again. Okay. That's the famous joke that uh the Rebbe was born in a place called Yekaterinoslav, but it's very hard to pronounce, so they changed it to Dnepropetrovsk. Well, the Rebbe was born in Nikolaev. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, the Rebbe grew up. But but now I think it's called Dnipro. Okay. So, it's interesting cuz in the book I had to make that decision. I had an incredible editor. Um she wrote the book on uh Rabbi J. J. Hecht, just a phenomenal editor, and that was one of the hardships. I'm like, okay, so how do I consistently work with cities? Like, do I continuously change? So, because they're in the book, I just call it Yekaterinoslav because we're reading about that time period, and even when it changes a little later, maybe I'll put a parentheses or something. So, I try to make it very comfortable for the reader. So, Reb Levi Yitzchak, his father becomes the rav in 1909 in Yekaterinoslav. Uh there's a tremendous amount written about him. But let's go into his personal life for a quick moment. Okay, he has three children, the Rebbe as of which is the oldest and um of course needing somebody to teach them. Unlike today, people I not to be insensitive, but there's you know, tuition is not the easiest thing in the world. I'm not minimizing it. But there's a little bit of a harder option. No Yeshivas. That's a little bit of a harder option. So, the I the notion of even being able to have a Yeshiva available it didn't exist. So, he reaches out to his haver and tells at the time Yekaterinoslav had a lot of shochtim. There was a time period, this is before things got really really bad and the secularized. There [snorts] was still a a great need for kosher food. It was a big city, Yekaterinoslav. >> Huge. Huge and it was very very Jewishly populated, but just to give you you know, perspective and on on the on the Well, I'll get to it in a second, but at the moment so he reached out to his haver and said, "You know, I'm I'm here in Yekaterinoslav. I need I need a shochet." And he obviously knew that he was a yirei Shamayim. He knew him from childhood. Knew him very very well. "Please come." Now, unlike today, he didn't send a WhatsApp message and he was on a flight 24 hours later. It It appears it took at least 9 to 11 months to actually make that trip between you know, closing down his affairs and um in uh where where not Mamash probably the Bronka, it was not terribly far away. Um and then you know, make his way. By the time he arrives in Yekaterinoslav, uh sadly the the wave of secularism um keeps keeps getting stronger and there's no more need for another shochet. >> [snorts] >> So, Reb Levi Yitzchak says, "How's this? Please teach my children and when a when a position opens, you'll get it." Um admittedly so, he was a little bit uncomfortable with that proposition. Um not that he was a baal gaiva, and I say this wholeheartedly about his character. You'll read about his character in the book. It was more just unusual. I mean, here you have this incredibly incredibly learner talmid chacham, incredibly I I would be would be appropriate to call him a gaon. He he he he didn't understand why he would, you know, kaviyochol teach kita aleph. But he obviously trusted trusted Reb Levik. He of course happily admitted later on that that was the silliest thought that he ever had in his life. So, in his little apartment, which there's photos of the exterior. I wish I could get the interior. Um but there's photos of the exterior. My uncles actually made a pilgrimage there many many years ago, so I have a wonderful photo of three of my uncles standing right outside the apartment. And that is where the cheder was. So, it was I'll go slow so people can get a perspective. I I also it was a mandatory schooling by the government. You had to have sort of have excuses. Are you sick, etc. I'll leave that aside for a second how they got out of that. So, you have the rebbe and then you had 11 other children. Now now it it overall he taught for the nine nearly 10 years, like nine years and and a bit. So, let's just round it the 10 years he taught. Let's focus for a second at the beginning. So, the rebbe was the oldest. The other two, the rebbe's brothers, um were much too young. By Rabbanit Chana, obviously knew that them sitting in a cheder, even though being much too young, would be a much better influence than them sort of staying at home and doing nothing or so they would go as well. So, the so the three of them would be there, but the younger two at the beginning at least would just, you know, play on the floor and just be there to be in the environment. And then there were others, there was Reb Nachum Goldschmidt, and I mentioned some of them in the book. And additionally, Rabbi Elchonon Shmatkin and Rabbi Abelernder wrote a phenomenal book called Early Years, and they go into a lot of detail as well about some of the Rebbe's classmates and those details. Again, my perspective was specifically about my Alter Zeide, Reb Zalman Vilenkin. So, the Rebbe joined this brand new cheder when he was 7 years old. So, we know when the Rebbe was born in 1902. So, the Rebbe was 7 years old. And the uh Reb Zalman immediately realized, immediately, that the Rebbe is the Rebbe, to put it mildly. They were one time learning and these and some of these stories, I'm told like derech eretz, he wouldn't always disclose, sort of felt like it's it's it's more honorable to to respect the Rebbe's privacy, but over the years he would disclose certain things about his experiences and thankfully, with enough of with enough collection from so many people over the years, able to get some clarity in what that cheder was like. So, basically, the Rebbe um uh one one thing that he mentioned, so the Rebbe would learn with Reb Zalman one-on-one. It was very clear that the Rebbe was obviously ahead of the class. And uh he he talked about uh how the Rebbe's mind was incredibly unusual. So, [snorts] he would learn uh he would learn with the Rebbe privately, then uh then learn with the other children while the Rebbe did chazarah and it was almost like a flip-flop cuz the Rebbe was in in a drastically different uh universe. They were learning they were learning Gemara at one point. So, we're talking from from basic, from entry level. And it's mentioned in the book in in other locations that the Rebbe says what they learn. So, he says he took he the Rebbe says that Reb Zalman taught me Chumash and Rashi and Gemara and probably the most powerful powerful statement, "He put me on my feet. That's That's almost become a This is something I did that I ever said after he passed away. Yes. Yes. And the the exact episode was was very beautiful where Rabbi Dr. Nissan Mandel whose daughter is my aunt, so whose daughter married my uncle Shalom Ber. And so when Shalom Ber and Frieda had a son um Rabbi Mandel was there and mentioned to the Rebbe that he was just blessed with a grandson and they named him Schneur Zalman after the Zayda. Well, after the baby's elder Zayda. And that's when the Rebbe shared a lot of detail, but particularly that and it's all in the book uh but particularly that statement that he put me on my feet and elaborated what they learned together. And um we recently published an article about your great grandfather which we relied on the book for a lot of the information. So, that's how we ended off the article what the Rebbe said and and then the Rebbe gave a gift of the fish. And then the Rebbe said that this new child should go in his ways following in his footsteps. Exactly. Exactly. And um that article I I it's I don't know how uh So, the Here magazine is absolutely unbelievable. I know you're not the one being interviewed, but it's unbelievable. It's mamash unbelievable on many levels. And people talk about it in first person like like it's an important part of many many people's lives. That article I've had so many discussions with so many people about. Again, it was such a incredible insight into something that I think some people were were less aware of. And it's I encourage listeners to go on the archives. You can find it on the the Here website. It's very easy to find. And it's an incredible article. It's obviously a shorter. The book has way more detail. But that is how the Rebbe described his experiences in Reb Zalman's cheder that the rebbe started from Chumash, Rashi, and to Gemara. They would be learning together, and the rebbe excuse me, Reb Zalman would skip over a complex Tosfos, and the rebbe would say, "No, no, no, no. Can't can't skip even one Tosfos. Just That's one of the things he said, unbelievable. The rebbe would ask such incredible questions that he his he wouldn't he it was more it's not p'shat Sure, there were definitely questions he couldn't even answer. That that's almost like half the amazement that you have a child asking questions to to a goan and he couldn't answer the question. The bigger amazement was you don't expect these words to exit a child. That that's the part that's even it's it blows you away that it's almost like imagine one day one you know you you wake up in the morning and all of a sudden your your five-year-old speaks fluent Chinese. It it it blows you away like what what just happened over here? It doesn't make any sense. So, then now you can understand why the rebbe would have to learn privately with Reb Zalman. And this happened for four and a half years, which is absolutely tremendous. That this is the the rebbe's entire childhood education, and [snorts] this is uh frankly, the only formal melamed that the rebbe ever had. Obviously, we know about tremendous amount of this correspondence with the Rogatchover. Of course, the rebbe learns with Reb Leibik as well, but in terms of of let's call it a melamed, this is it. This is where it all started. And how do you think it ended? It ended exactly as you can imagine. Um Reb Zalman turns to Reb Leibik and says, "We're done. Shas, Yerushalmi, Bavli, poskim, I have nothing else to teach him." And this is at 11 and a half. It's obvious to our listeners that yeah, that makes perfect sense. But I'm just nonetheless telling you the story. And that is how that segment. Now, at the time, Reb Zalman's cheder continued because the brothers have aged. There are these two brothers, uh Yisrael Aryeh Leib and and Berel, they have aged and now they're part of the cheder. And there's also beautiful stories how they would perk up as very, very young children commenting on what's going on in the class even though originally they were just tiny kids, you know, just being in the avir of Torah, one would think not even participating. Ultimately, Reb Zalman taught until um the youngest child of Reb Levik was close to bar mitzvah, around 12-ish, where at that age, you know, the the cheder sort of dismantled and then excuse me and then he went back to shchita. Um there's a lot more about his life in general as an individual and how he raised his children and the and the mesirus nefesh of the time in Yekaterinoslav. So May- maybe maybe close off just in short going through like, you know, what happened to him, how he came to marry the communist and all that over there. Sure. You know, I think he lived in Cleveland. Just let's let's do a little let's let's do it in in short, just finish off that chapter of Reb Zalman Volinkin. Sure. Sure. So Reb Zalman, like I said, and the Rebbi stopped learning together. My my grandmother, Chana Volinkin, on the on the on So if anyone's familiar with JEM has a phenomenal a phenomenal series. Early years. Early years. She's the first interview. She's the very first interview and she was obviously very young, but she does have recollections already there Rebbi being older as a bochur coming over and borrowing sfarim. Reb Zalman had a tremendous amount of sfarim and [snorts] so the Rebbi finished with the cheder but still continued to live with his family in Yekaterinoslav. Uh fast forwarding to fast forward the Yekaterinoslav So Reb Levik, as we know, um eventually eventually had to leave Yekaterinoslav. It's a I guess a polite way to put it. He was in prison. Right. Exiled. Exiled. Exiled. And then around that same time, the war broke out, and then everybody fled. So, you have you have uh Reb Zalman along uh with his family. At that point, his uh his first first wife passed away, so he got remarried. And um so he I'll give you the short version. Basically, from Yekaterinoslav, he fled. Uh I'm definitely summarizing it, but there's a lot of good detail in the book. Um and I'm sure the readers will have a real appreciation for what it means in middle of the war to have no money, to have no food, >> Your grandparents were with him? So, interestingly, this is a whole 'nother episode, but I'm I won't I won't I won't elaborate, but the 10-second version is that June of 1941 is when Russia entered World War II. But, prior to that, there was a treaty. So, two Russia-im made a treaty. I don't mess with you, and you don't mess with me. So, Hitler and Stalin >> and the Russians. Right. So, imagine Hitler and Stalin >> Hitler and Stalin. Yeah. Two Russia-im made a deal. And uh unfortunately, and then that deal blew up. So, basically, in By the time June of 1941, what happened was uh Lippa was living with his wife Chana in Yekaterinoslav, but but uh that at that moment, she went um to visit her father in Yekaterinoslav. Excuse me, they were living in Leningrad, 1,000 mi away in Yekaterinoslav. She went to visit. While she was on that visit, is when the war broke out. So, now Lippa >> And the Nazis invaded Russia. Correct. So, now you have Lippa and Chana are 1,000 mi apart, no communication, the war breaks out, and it's it's it's it's really it's really just so otherworldly. Ultimately, >> yet? They did have at that point they had one kid who never did not survive, and who did not survive. Uh they actually had a second kid later, unfortunately, who also didn't survive. Um so, my oldest uncle is actually the third child. Um she'll live and be well. So, now you have Reb Zalman with his visiting daughter, actually two visiting daughters. It was the same thing, like they both came to visit, they each had a baby, so um two of his daughters came to visit. He has sons as well who are mentioned in the book, they were often in Yeshiva, but what's going on in Yekaterinoslav? It's him, his wife, his two daughters, and each one of them have their baby, they came for a visit. The war breaks out and they need to leave and uh immediately they go, eventually they end up at a town near the Caspian Sea, which I which I failed to get the proper pronunciation. It's uh Makhachkala Makhachkala It's a tough pronunciation. And he was there for a shidduch of time with a lot of other refugees, and I I have details in the book about how he um was a incredible mashpia to the refugees, ultimately making it to Tashkent. Um which is in for for those that don't know, which is in um which is in Uzbekistan. After afterward, without getting into every detail, there was the famous great escape, and from Tashkent made it to Lvov Lemberg, from Lemberg eventually made it to the DP camps in Pocking, which >> So, your grandparents ended up reconnecting and going to Tashkent. My right. So, my grandparents were separated for uh a year and a half during the war. Yeah, this wasn't an overnight sensation. What I just said in 1 second took took a long time. So, yeah, during the war they eventually So, they were separated in 1941 and eventually reunited in '43 and lived uh for the duration of the war in Tashkent, and as soon as the opportunity got became to flee to flee the Soviet Union, they did so with many other Lubavitcher families, and there's incredible detail and photographs as well of people and and and I'll get to the I'll get to to flee in a second cuz uh there's a few secrets that I I I unraveled that's uh I really appreciate. So, Reb Zalman basically uh leave escapes Russia, ends up in a displaced person's camp. I talk about a lot of a lot of his activity there. They From the displaced person's camp, they go and they go to Paris. From Paris, the plan was obviously to um get to the United States. The Joint um was incredible. Mamish uh if you read about what the Joint did, Mamish Sadiqem. And they uh enabled They enabled the refugees to have stability. They they took they took over a hotel. They got them housing. They tried to you know, they gave them a stipend. They gave them clothing. Trying to find them a job. They're Mamish incredible. And and there's a lot of correspondence between Reb Zalman and the Friediker Rebbe, which is all in the book. And there's also correspondence between Reb Zalman and the Rebbe because he was he ended up staying there up until 1953 after the Rebbe after the Rebbe was Rebbe. And and um the Rebbe definitely behind the scenes tried to uh get him visas and all these kinds of things and was successful. But unfortunately, Reb Zalman's health did not allow him to travel. So, he eventually after his recovery Reb Zalman with his wife Zelda and uh I think at the time it was only one of his daughters. His other daughter shortly followed afterward. My my grandmother and um her husband Reb Lipa and children, they followed shortly thereafter. This is the first time now. It's 1953 that the Rebbe and Reb Zalman reunite. He would The Joint The American Joint Distribution Committee um were having him settle in Cleveland. And the way it worked was that it was all privately funded by the Joint. They would Mamish collect money from American Jews and I'm sure beyond. And there there were quotas for cities for refugees. You couldn't just you know, pick your city on a map. But on their way to Cleveland they came to Crown Heights. And this is the first time that Reb Zalman and the Rebbe are meeting each other in basically decades. Amongst the then is brought to you by a Hechsher of the hair. We live in a chaotic world. A world where for us Hasidim as a saying later in new, we do not have the ability to hear and see the Rebbe on a daily basis. Yet we know that the Rebbe is very much with us and the Hasidus Chabad is alive and thriving [music] more than ever before. One needs to only tap into it. Hechsher of the hair provides you and your family with the tools necessary to tap into all of this. Whether it's the monthly magazine, the way it all began, whether it's the hair books, the hair online content, and so much more. Men, women, and children throughout the world benefit and use these tools on a daily basis. Whether it's children enjoying the children's magazine that comes along with the regular the hair or enjoying the children's podcast. 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I was telling you about Dina married or married Mayer Dubrovsky. So this is her daughter Ada Dubrovsky who eventually became Ada Springer. So she was there and unfortunately she passed away recently. I conducted at least four interviews with her over the course of the book and she was there first hand to describe the Yechidus. Reb Zalman walks in. >> She was in the room. She was in the room because she had just come from Paris. They had finally had come to the United States. She was in the room with her parents and grandparents. And they come in. The Rebbe immediately stands up and greets his Melamed. Reb Zalman is elderly. Like I even said his his his his health wasn't uh great cuz that's one of the reasons why he couldn't leave uh Paris sooner even though he had all the proper documentation. Reb Zalman would not and nor would any Chassid sit during the Yechidus. It's not appropriate to sit in front of the Rebbe. The Rebbe would not sit in front of his Melamed. So they both stood. The Yechidus went on for somewhere about 45 minutes and they were standing the entire time. Ada shared with me that the Rebbe was trying to persuade Reb Zalman to sit down cuz he's elderly. Wanted him to sit and said it's in the book the exact quote but 40 years back years ago we sat together on one bench. We sat together learning together. We could we could sit together now as well. And Reb Zalman did say later on that he felt very badly made the Reb stand but at the cost of sitting in front of the Reb. That was the first that they had when they came to the United States. So they were obviously right outside and eager to see eager to hear all the details how that went. He then went on to Cleveland. Tremendous correspondence in the book. A lot of letters from the Reb about in Cleveland. Everything from his room to his gatherings which communities he's living in cuz he started off in one community and then the Jewish community moved so he he went to let's call it the newer Jewish community. He had a lot of with the Tells the famous Tells that was sadly destroyed in Lithuania was reestablished right after the war in Cleveland. So Reb Zalman would the would come over to his home and they would and have room. And so there's a tremendous amount of incredible correspondence so which which really gives you a real insight. Fast forward a couple of years um Reb Zalman really wants to move to Crown Heights be closer to the Reb. Be closer to his children obviously his um you know able to get there as well. So and there's a lot of details about that move but I'll just I'll try to fast forward a little bit. So now he's about to come back to Crown Heights. This is approximately 1960. And there's a second this right cuz now he's back in Crown Heights. However he wasn't as strong as he was the first time physically. So he comes into the my uncle was holding him physically holding his arm. My uncle told me you know he he was obviously extremely nervous standing in front of the Reb with his zaida. Um and the rebbe even told him to, you know, hold him better cuz he was so nervous. He was a tiny bit, you know, wobbly. And he uh my uncle felt badly about that, but I I I assured him that he didn't do anything wrong. Um so, in that yechidus he had no choice and he profusely apologized to the rebbe and said, "I I really need to sit. I I I I wish I could." In general, he was in a wheelchair, right, at that point? Um I I don't believe at that point he was in a wheelchair, but he definitely uh was not able to to comfortably walk or stand for long periods. So, he said I um I mean, it could be, but I I don't believe so. No, cuz otherwise they probably would have wheeled him into the yechidus. >> Well, he was later, yeah, okay. >> Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, he apologizes and sits down and um they have their second yechidus. And now he's living in Crown Heights on Lincoln Place, very close by. And because he wasn't in he wasn't extremely healthy, it was challenging for him to come to the fabrengens. So, he had a This is what he would do. This was the strategy. He would either come before he would either come before this way he cuz it takes him a long time to get to his seat. He wasn't well. And the after the fabrengen would start. The trouble is he couldn't sit the entire fabrengen because he couldn't physically sit, you know, for a very long time. The rebbe would put him very prominently uh right behind him, sort of like by the dais. And um the rebbe would give him lechaim and and give him and give him a piece of cake, but he couldn't he wasn't able to stay the entire time. So, he would try his best to leave during a niggun to be less disruptive. The trouble is that the rebbe would not be seated while his melamed is standing. So, the rebbe would sit up a little bit with what what what appears to be the intention of not inconveniencing the entire oilam and making everyone stand, but at the same time the rebbe would stand for his melamed. Then, of course, it appears that most of the island stood up noticing their other standing and it would take some time for him to leave. Then he would strategize the other way, perhaps come in the middle of a nigan and then then being able to stay till the end of the for bringing. Either way getting in and out would always would be very disruptive so he actually stopped going to for bringing because he felt bad for the other and felt bad for for the others present. So there were it appears that there were many for bringing that he did attend until he felt that it was it was not nice to do. >> all to do every time he came. Absolutely. Whatever strategy you picked, whether he came early or left in middle or came in middle and left at the end you couldn't win. Um but always continued to have an extremely close relationship, you know, and and and you see it in the correspondence. He um in he eventually aged and um my my uncle Shalom Ber would was with uh lived I think he lived by him because of Yeshiva so he was in Yeshiva so he lived in his he lived this in in his apartment and he came in and he noticed that he was not speaking very clearly. Uh he used to um anytime he wasn't learning something he would be hazing Mishnah as well. He would learn all the time. That was just the status quo, always learning. But if he wasn't like learning in front of a safer he'd be hazing Mishnah as well. Uh I remember [snorts] my my uncle Label once once said when he was there as well that that sometimes it was hard almost to like say Shalom Aleichem again be put into perspective a child because he would say, "Okay, great. Grab a Mishnah. Make sure I don't make any mistakes." So you now you were copy out stuck making sure that you're following along that he uh Anyway, in in a nutshell he had a stroke and um and uh uh Dr. Zalman was involved and the Rebbe intervened and actually got him some matzah because matzah is a food of healing and was and again a lot of these details about from his stroke and how incredibly involved I mean You know one thing I took away from that whole piece that is very interesting I I I didn't put it in the book I mean the incredible derech eretz that the Rebbe had for his childhood melamed. You know I will say that if I visit Crown Heights and I pass by you know my melamed from fourth grade of course I'll say shalom aleichem. I will. I mean you know you had you had a derech eretz. But this is this is this is unbelievable. I mean this is like oh yeah that was my my my kita ches, you know my kita vov teacher whatever. We could learn a lot from the way the Rebbe treated Reb Zalman Velinkin. Literally how somebody treats their melamed 40 years later. So so the Rebbe was very involved in in that entire time period about being in touch with Dr. Dr. Zalman about his about his health status even when he ultimately had to be hospitalized the Rebbe sent a specialist and my my aunt Raisel when she was there visiting her zeida remembers that the the doctors were all up in a buzz about wow there's this tremendous you know prominent doctor that came to visit this you know this patient no one who was normally understood the nature of it but the Rebbe was very involved in his care until he ultimately passed away. Even after he passed away the Rebbe held the Aron at his levaya which is extremely rare. Went to the Bais Hakvaros, did not go inside because the Rebbe shared with Reb Shmuel Lewitin on the drive back that he didn't make the proper hachanas because if he had to go into the Bais Hakvaros he'd have to go to the feet of the Rebbe and he wasn't prepared. But the Rebbe went to the levaya. And the Rebbe funded funded funded the the kever. Asked that the two sisters give a dollar cuz the children are meant to pay the fee for their parents' burial. So, again, there were four children, but two of the boys were unfortunately stuck back in Montreal, and the two girls were in Crown Heights. I'm sorry. Um in the United States. Not in Crown Heights. Well, one was in Crown Heights, one was in in Cleveland. Anyway, so the Rebbe paid for the paid for the levaya or paid for the burial. And then later on with the matzeiva, the same thing. The Rebbe wanted to pay a third, and the two sisters paid the additional two thirds. And of course, um they submitted to the Rebbe the matzeiva. And they felt bad submitting with the piece of with the piece that says that um you know, that Reb Zalman was the Rebbe's teacher. They weren't sure how that would come across. Maybe it would be a little bit They just felt it wasn't the best idea. When the Rebbe looked at the first draft of the matzeiva, said, "Wha- why doesn't it say that he taught either to Kinder?" Mhm. And then I'm a witness. I was there. So, the Rebbe changed it and and inserted that, and you could see and there's a photo. Obviously, it's written about in the book, but more specifically, there's a photo in there of Reb Zalman's kever, and you could see what I'm referring to where the Rebbe added that that and that he learned with Jewish children with the Rebbe's name, etc. So, that is on his matzeiva. >> part about the added his name though, or just >> Yeah. Yeah, the Rebbe added the part that not only did he teach, but he had the zchus to teach the Rebbe. Teaching him. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And uh it's obviously and it's right there in his matzeiva. I actually took I don't live in uh Crown Heights, so I would every time I would during the process, every time I would go to the ohel, I'd try to get another picture, and it just What if it's middle of the night? I was trying to get a good picture. Ultimately, the best picture was like a schmucka picture in the snow. And that's the one that ended up in the book with like a snow streaking down. Um and And he's buried right near the aisle. Fork farm yeah, when you if you if instead of making a left directly into the aisle, the first cave where I knew was the Rashag three three or four more matzeivos at farm over is where Rab Schneur Zalman of Liadi Rabbeinu Zalman is buried. And ultimately he lived a long life. He was born in 1878 and passed away in 1963 63 64. It's in the book accurately. 63 or 60 He lived He lived well into his 80s. And he just an incredible individual. I mean I I barely took scraped the surface on who he was, what his life was about, his impact on people, on communities. But um, I hope that the listeners got an idea in terms of who this great person was and um, in the Rebbe's own words how he influenced the Rebbe and of course the tremendous tremendous respect the Rebbe had for him. Yeah. Okay, thank you so much for sharing. It's really amazing. So you were talking about Cleveland. Um, obviously Zalman Velensky was there and your grandparents were there also, your grandfather. So I know there's a lot there. That's another article we wrote in the hair about your grandfather's It's not only his story, but it's also what he was doing there that has a big lesson. So I want to hear about that, but before that, maybe just you mentioned in passing that you have some new things about the great escape. Um, so maybe I want to hear about Cleveland. Maybe just talk about the great escape and you know, your contribution to that story. Sure. Uh, within the book and then we'll talk about Cleveland. So I I believe I read almost anything I could get my hands on in regard to the great escape. Um, in England there's an article in the hair about that as well. Very well done. Extremely well done and fantastic citations. I mean anyone watching this knows the hair, so it's kind of silly for me to talk about it. Uh, not necessarily. Okay. They know, but I don't know if everyone subscribes, so I encourage everyone. I definitely encourage everyone any everyone to subscribe. Um, If you're on the fence about it, just get my cell phone number and I'll uh I'll put you up for the first year if that's your if you're doubting it. And then from there >> okay. Yeah, so if somebody texts me and says I saw you on the podcast and I saw you yenting about the incredible Der Hair magazine uh no problem. I'll I'll I'll back it up as long Are you giving out your phone number as well? No, I I think you need to have the own your own gumption to figure it out, you know? And I think there's two degrees of separation. There's not one person in the Lubavitcher I can't get their cell phone number. I can get Levi's phone number tomorrow if I try hard enough, right? And I'm not Levi. I'm just a simple guy. So, the point is I you know, I'm obviously trying to put my money where my mouth is, but I think I'm I'm being genuine and I'll do it for to to to to to the degree I'm able. This is by no means a shura. Let's just put a big gle nether next to it to the best of my ability, but if you're sincerely on the fence and you and you basically say, "You know what? I'm going to take this character up on his offer uh his offer." and I get a WhatsApp message, "Hey." And then I will I will execute. Der Hair is an incredible incredible magazine. There's nothing like it. And to the degree this is a funny small story that I had. So, many years ago when discovering Der Hair and just loving it and appreciating it, I remember thinking, "Oh, yeah. How do I get a hold of the old issues?" And [snorts] um this is I think this is maybe 2020 cuz I remember being roughly COVID time. There was a email that went out on you could buy all the old all the old issues. I think like hundreds, whatever it was. I whatever the big number was. I immediately jumped on it and the website wasn't working and episodes are wrong link and I'm emailing and I'm like, "How many do they have already?" And I I finally hopped it. Fast forward a little while later just to just to share with the readers that it's not just a a one man's opinion, although nothing wrong with one man's opinion. Shortly thereafter um I remember um sitting with a haver of mine. Um we're where we I forgot exactly the setting we were in. More like a we like bumped into each other at a place and having a similar conversation and somehow Der hair came up. And I said, "By the way, did you jump on that?" He said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, me too. I immediately jumped on that." So, if you have multiple people jumping on "Hasidic Legacy", old issues, I hope it gives you a glimpse into what kind of publication this is. Um yeah, the the hair is incredible. So, that that article on "The Great Escape" is incredibly well done. In general, I'm I'm incredibly amazed how you always always keep it keep it fresh. never opened up an issue. It was it's always insightful in terms of, "Wow, yet another another area uncovered." So, "The Great Escape", which is obviously a very prominent episode in Lubavitch history, was very well documented in the hair. So, the So, I basically read up on everything in English available about the great escape. What about all this, anything surrounding the last, you know, 100 years of Lubavitch history, basically mid-1800s almost to the present. And we'll get later on into what I what I mean by the present. I mean, really present. Um so, my cousin, so his name is Nachum Schwartz. So, just for some of the readers that can appreciate listeners that can appreciate this. So, you have Reb Lipa Shapiro, I mentioned. He had a brother named Levikha. He also had a sister named Sararelka who married Shaya Gopin. So, there was Lipa, Levikha, and Sararelka. They lived in Eretz Yisrael. Those are the parents of the famous Mashpia, Reb Zalman Gopin. There was two more siblings that never did not >> And Reb Yoske Gopin, who there's another episode. Oh, fantastic. And I believe >> the time this will be out, will have been released already. And he was a great help as well. There's a letter that he provided the whole information, but also a letter and a photo that ended up in the book that he was very helpful for. Um so, and then there were two additional siblings who, unfortunately, um, did not make it and they're written about in the book. So, you have you have uh Riplipa's brother uh Levicha uh married to Guta. Um, they have a daughter. They have a daughter Razel and she has a son named Nachum. This cousin of mine, he's my second cousin, Nachum, a wonderful individual, had the foresight to interview my Zayde Lippa on video. It's the only video interview that we have. Uh anyone else who's thinking about interviewing their parents, I mean, today the world is a lot different, it's much easier, you just grab >> He wasn't, but he was on uh Gem also. I don't believe No, my Zayde was on Gem sitting with my Bubba. I do not believe my Zayde was individually interviewed for Gem, to my knowledge. I'm pretty sure not. Um, he was very helpful, of course, because he had spoken a tremendous amount with his father-in-law, with his father Reb Zalman, so he was also insightful and participated in that interview. But as it pertains to a video interview, just pragmatically, you could read a person's lips. So, if someone's later on in age or things of that nature, it is it was so much easier to transcribe a video interview than an audio interview. It's night and day. So, Nachum has this video interview. And this is where the stuff came up. So, my Zayde's talking about just a thousand things, you know, all over the place, it you know, I get a lot of information, all first hand. And then finally, something novel comes up. He says, "The Bricha, they saved us." Uh, I don't even know what that is. I mean, I know he escaped from Russia and you know, everyone had to get passports and paperwork and sneak Who Who exactly is the Bricha? I'm I'm not aware. I never heard of them. I don't even know what it is. And frankly, it kind of put me in this whole new space of takiyah. >> [gasps] >> Just because you walked out of the Soviet Union, how do you end up in the American zone in the comfort of the DP camp? Comfort in the sense of like you're not being shot at. Not comfort, that's not the Four Seasons, but think [laughter] about think about it practically. You know, you don't have a dollar, you don't have a phone, you you don't have a language there's nothing. I start going down this incredible path of finding out who the Briha and how they saved us. The Briha were Israelis who were Zionist youth movement Kavi just youth, but Zionist movement of people who were not religious and they were doing everything they could to move people out. So, two two major components. One to get people out of Russia, but or right when they get came out of Russia to get them to safety. There were some Briha members which snuck into Russia. There's 10 of them that we know that were executed because they momish went into Russia, took Jews out, and they were executed. But most of their activity cuz that was you could imagine that's daunting to sneak into Soviet Russia, but they as soon as the people escaped Russia, them where where were they? Imagine you pull up in the train station in Krakow cuz Krakow is the first city into Poland. There is not a black cab waiting for you with a sign that says welcome Cayman family. Like it's [laughter] it's not like that, you know? So, basically now So, you're saying that the Lubavitcher Hasidim were organizing the escape, but what happens post escape that's where the Briha stepped in. >> Correct. >> tremendously. And I will give it bit of a bigger background upon the research it comes there is an Eretz Yisrael like a Briha Legacy Association. Yad Vashem does have a tremendous amount on them, but in a nutshell it's really deemed the most undocumented tremendous part of Holocaust related Holocaust related. And I think logically it's not it's not unreasonable because obviously the Holocaust has a tremendous amount of documentation and what to be written about and meant to be discussed, obviously. So, I think that some of the post Holocaust activities, I guess we're a bit outshot a bit outshine. Doesn't mean that they were any less. The Briha, I want to make sure I get the right number cuz it is absolutely tremendous. The Briha clandestinely moved Pardon me. They moved I wanted to make sure to get the exact number because even though you could read about it I'm sure like sorry. Uh right over here. They moved the air 200,000 Jews fleeing Eastern Europe between 1944 and 1948. It was an underground organization focused on aiding Holocaust survivors and Jews escaping from communist regimes giving them a chance to rebuild their lives after the war. So, again, there's a tremendous amount more on them and their relationship with the Lubavitcher Hasidim how they were incredibly impressed by these Hasidim that are so committed to Yiddishkeit and so committed to their Rebbe in New York. I mean, these Israelis were incredibly impressed. And [snorts] there's So, not only who the Briha were were mesiras nefesh to help their mesiras nefesh to help their brethren. They ultimately held them by the hand along additionally the Vaad Hatzalah was incredible as well and I talk about that cuz my bubby in those interviews I told you about during during the social studies project for Bais Rivkah talked about the Vaad Hatzalah as well. Um so, their their their contributions are in the in in terms of the arriving in Krakow. >> [snorts] >> The Briha essentially was like this. How are we going to get these newly arrived Jews in Krakow all the way So, you're in Krakow I thought they were in Lviv. No, Lviv is still in the Soviet Union. That's the last city. You get on a train >> Oh, from to Krakow, okay. >> Now, you're in Krakow. So, they were also involved in the escape. Obviously, we have a tremendous amount of Lubavitch history about Lubavitchers being involved in that piece of the but they were also they were also falsifying but more bigger picture is now you crossed over into the border, you safely made it. Woof, you made it. Now you're in Krakow, now you're in Poland. You're several countries away from the safety of the American war zone. You're in Poland, they don't want you. You're in trouble there. Plus, even some KGB people were still hanging out in Krakow looking for escapees. Then you have Czechoslovakia. Then you have Austria, and you finally have Germany. They essentially took them by the hand, sometimes in cars, sometimes in trains, and sometimes by foot all the way to to to safety. They did it for Lubavitcher Hasidim, and they did it for hundreds of thousands of Jews. Mamesh, it is the greatest It's the greatest facilitation transfer in modern history that we know of. And I have been very blessed with obtaining in incredible photos. Incredible photos about They're even gathering still in Russia or still in Krakow saying, "This is what we're going to do. We're going to go on this arduous journey by foot for months." Mamesh, it's the exodus from Egypt to find and and I have I was able to even meet family members with some of the photos, and they're all very very well named about going through the forest. Some of these photos they posited needed for fundraising purposes. If there's a photo of them escorting, and you see they all look like Zionist youth. They have like the the Boy Scout look with like the shirt and the shorts, and it's all there. And then you see like these from a families like you know, maybe they have like one little suitcase and a casket. And [snorts] you know, they had the thankfully there were a few photos here and there because this enabled them to obviously, you know, fund some of this. How many they took they said they took the photos for fundraising purposes? Yeah, and there's not a tremendous amount because, you know, you're in the middle of a forest. But, they you know, eventually if if you're trying to fund hundreds of thousands of people moving, you got to be able to convey that message to somebody somehow. Now, at At point the war is over, people understood, but that's why the Holocaust Museum even has such photos. There's a tremendous letter, which is one of my favorite parts of of this chapter on the great escape. Um it's signed by Rabbi Nissan Mendel. Um it's you know, on behalf of the Fideker Rebbe. So so Lubavitch is here, okay? Pocking DP camp is here. It's Eric 600 miles. 600 miles sounds like garnish if you have a flight, but if you're walking it, oh boy, it's quite it's quite the distance if you're walking. At the halfway point in the city uh Opole, I'm not pronouncing it right. Opole Apple, Poland. Basically, um the Fideker Rebbe was inquiring about a kitchen because on that way they the joint had a kitchen there and wanted to see to it there was kosher food for them while they were escaping cuz there were little stops along the way where people could get some food, some medical attention, and this is all noted in in the book and it's you know, photos and documents. But to me, the Bericha just absolutely um absolutely took that whole episode of the great escape and took it to a new Madriga. I you know, I reached out to the to the Bericha Institute and um in Jerusalem or sorry, not Jerusalem, somewhere in Eretz Yisrael. And that to me anyone that reads that chapter in the great escape will definitely have a tremendous insight on who these people were, what they had to do to hold their brethren by the hand. Now, a lot of them were motivated to ultimately get them to Eretz Yisrael to help establish a country by pushing at having more people, but they weren't that biased. Meaning, we're here to save you. You want to go to Eretz Yisrael? I'm going to help you out. We'll get you there. We're going to get you to British Mandate Palestine if you'd like. Um by no means did they say, you know, I'm only helping you out tonight. You come to No, it was nothing like that. And these were Mamish Mamish uh Tzadikim that helped refugees um escape. I even have a photo of them sitting around typewriters, you know, creating falsified documentation cuz every single country you need it. So, now you're going to get now from Austria to Germany. How you going to get from Czechoslovakia? Every little step along the way. Um, yeah. Okay, perfect. It's amazing. What did you discover about the life of Hasidim in Pocking? Mhm. Life of Hasidim in Pocking. So, here's something that's actually very insightful to both my grandfather and great-grandfather. My great-grandfather, like I said, it was a shochet. My zaida actually live I was also a shochet. So, imagine the following. You're coming out of the woods and you finally come to the safety the safety of a DP camp. Yeah, you're sleeping on a cot. Problem, you have zero privacy. Uh, but you're not dead. So, that's wonderful and you're not being chased any longer. Reb Zalman was not very pleased that a lot of the Hasidim were easy to trust the shchita. They set up shchita facilities. The Vaad Hatzalah along with the Joint set up shchita facilities, but it all comes down to the shochet. And he wasn't terribly Now, I I I don't fault the Hasidim. They're starving. They probably hadn't a piece of chicken in years. I mean, I I I don't fault them. I'm just telling you my shushiya how it was. So, So, first they tried to compel Reb Zalman and say, "Come on, it's fine, you know. Look look look Look at their appearance." He's like, "Well, it doesn't matter about their religious attire. That's That's not how That's not how we judge shchita." Anyway, um, Reb Lipa, my zaida, stood up and it was right before Rosh Hashanah and everyone was obviously dependent on the on the meat and basically said we're going to have a milchigs Rosh Hashanah until this is worked out. And uh that So, it was. So, they ate milchigs for Rosh Hashanah. And um and after right quickly afterward, they you know, they resolved it. It's unclear if they you know, who they appointed, but Rebbi Shmelke never let in his exact words said that the only shchita that he and he recommends every single about which are to only eat this from Reb Zalman. And [snorts] Reb Zalman at the time was one of the roshei yeshiva in the yeshiva in Pocking. I I actually have This is not from a Lubavitch source, which is amazing. Meaning to say, you know, one would assume, oh, he probably got this from the Rebbe's library. Nothing of the There's tremendous amount of things I have from var- various other sources. Uh >> [snorts] >> this, I believe, it's again, my my sources are on the on on the in the credit section. I have the entire I have a five-page report concerning Yeshivas Tomchei Temimim and its associated divisions in the Pocking DP camp. So, I have a thing about the operation expenses. I have about the list of bochurim. Then, they have the hanhalah. So, in the hanhalah, you see very clearly that the menahel is uh Reb Nissan Nemanow, and then you have right over here on um on line nine, you see the rosh yeshiva for Shiur Beis is Harav uh Zalman Velinkin. So, he was busy in the yeshiva teaching. It's unclear to me how he had time to also be a part of the shechitah. Maybe he helped with um training or observation. It's a little bit unclear. But, also they set up an entire an entire thing for rabbonim and shochtim. So, maybe that quickly resolved itself once they trained a tremendous amount of shochtim to be. And there's photos and documentation about what that what that was all about cuz their goal was obviously to give them stability and enable them to have jobs. They didn't just sit around the DP camp, you know, playing checkers like everyone kept busy and worried about their future. >> [snorts] >> Um so so in the DP camp um Lubavitch was basically if you know, for the first time we're free. They finally were able to celebrate in in true freedom. They set up yeshivas. They set up chadorim. And and and girls' schools as well. And And you see visuals and documentation for for every single one of this. Um and it's it's a breath of fresh air. It really really after you read the first section of the book and reading about realizing about the incredible oppression being under and finally be able to enter this free world where you could practice One of my favorite photos. I I There Oh, there's a photo of Rebbetzin Chana, which I'll allow the readers to enjoy. And I discuss Rebbetzin Chana about her experiences in the DP camp, how she got out, and um and reunited with the Rebbe um from the perspective of of the Lubavitchers in the DP camp, obviously it's written about tremendously, but there's an incredible photo on Simchas Torah with with Reb Dovid Brodman. So, this photo why is this photo on Simchas Torah again? The joint had to take photos to fundraise hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to help out our brethren in the DP camp. So, there's a great photo Yeah. um of Reb Dovid on Simchas Torah in Nachlas and you see he has like his tallis, you know, his tallis is half on. It's It was funny. Cracks me up. Probably changes. Right. This photo's from 1947. He could have been walking around >> When I saw that that When I saw that picture, that was like my thought that that's that's a Simchas Torah pose. Right. So, he has his daughter He's holding a bottle of mashke. He No, he has his daughter. It's his daughter. It looks like a bottle of mashke cuz he's clenching his fist as I Yeah. Yeah. >> You look very closely, it's just his fist and his daughter's in his other hand. He's holding her. His tallis is like halfway off. Um and it's it's it's it's an incredible photo. It's finally someone could celebrate and they're not in some basement shul or basement, you know, still in hate doing hakafos. It's it's It's unbelievable. It's It's one of the most powerful photos in the entire book. Um so, Pocking was was their first avenue to freedom and uh and um and this really enabled them to get back on their feet and they they you know, there's they received clothing and food and and and and and bachurim. Th- Think about the bachurim for a second. Most of them, through the hardship of war, didn't even learn in any yeshiva or or learn properly prior to the war in Russia who had the opportunity. So, they had to reestablish the yeshiva that didn't for Hashem the older bachurim that didn't have a chance to cuz if you're younger, it makes sense. You're in shul. If you're brand new, we don't expect you to know much, so to speak. But, not everyone had the privilege like my zaida even though his hardship of running around to the underground yeshivas was was arduous, but at least he had the privilege of learning. A lot of people didn't even have that opportunity. And at this point they're they're they're semi you know, they're quite elderly. So, they they were very strategic in making sure that everyone was able to learn at their level while also making sure no one's for shames cuz you may have someone who I'm already 18. I feel silly learning with a 14-year-old. So, they would make a sheer for them for other 18-year-olds who due to hardship of war and communism were were not up to par. And And the the generation that we grew up in some of our mashpi'im in Yeshiva learned in these and they had to learn. Talking, so Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Absolutely. And you And you see in the photos and there I This was one of the hardest parts is getting everybody's name. You could see one photo with 15 names. You could imagine what it took to identify everyone correctly. Sometimes I would do it based on look. Like, okay, this looks like a so-and-so. Right. >> [snorts] >> Yeah. Okay. Beautiful. So, let's move on to Cleveland. So, your your grant the Rabbi of Lincoln and your grandparents came to the They came the same time. They were they were around the same the same time. Yeah, so they made it out of Pocking to Paris. Paris was meant to be >> Paris But then they came to Paris to to the United States at the same time as well? Yeah, but they arrived in the same short period of time. Uh Okay. So, I know there's a lot of rich history with you mentioned already the Rabbi Zalman and your grandfather in Cleveland and what they were doing there with tells etc. Maybe you could talk about that. Sure, and I'll give you some stuff that didn't make it into the book. Not Not because there's anything wrong with it. It's beca- I'll get to it. So, uh these um immigrants are coming from uh Paris. Paris was meant to be a short 6-week stint. Ended up being for them 6 years. Rabbi Zalman was only because of his his of his frail health and the Shapiro's pas for gathering papers. Interestingly, my Zayde, Rabbi Lipa's sister, Sarah Relka Gupin, they actually got their papers early. They ended up going to Eretz Yisrael. They actually thought, okay, whatever paper comes, we'll just maybe we'll end up in Eretz Yisrael. It wasn't It wasn't like today where choice is Anyway, um in 1953, first Reb Zalman, along with his wife and uh one of his daughters and son-in-law, they they get they go first and then my Zayde my Zayde Lippa's brother, which uh Levitcha um he and his family um also went. This is all in the same very short period of time. Um they actually received letters in Paris from Levitcha about America and a few of the things are just interesting. One was the amazement. When you go to a supermarket, get a bag. When you go to the cleaners, they give it back to you on a hanger. The golden Medina. That's funny. Yeah. So, I document those letters where he's writing what's America like. >> [snorts] >> Um Reb Lippa comes to the United States, similarly to Reb Zalman, stops in Crown Heights, stays with his old friend Reb Shia Korff, who he knows from Kremenchuk. I have some fascinating stuff in Reb Shia Korff in the DP camp. >> Reb Shia Korff in Yekaterinoslav? Um No. I No. I At least I I don't believe so. Reb Shia Korff uh um my Zayde Lippa uh learned with him or rather under him in Kremenchuk. Okay. So, when he comes to Crown Heights, uh he stayed by him for those few days uh en route to Cleveland. The coming to Yechidus and I elaborate in detail. Uh one interesting thing I want to note about the Yechidus where Reb Lippa obviously wants to my Zayde wants to be in Crown Heights. Who doesn't? And he actually asked the Rebbe, should I um should I just stay? And the Rebbe said, definitely not. Al shter a cheshbon for the joint, they not only brought you here to the United States, but they have you set up in Cleveland. And the Rebbe said, more importantly, and this is what's his shlichus, that Cleveland should know as a chossid ditzn shtot. Like, the Rebbe basically said, don't Like, go to Cleveland. You have a tremendous schlichus um to do there." But he did for a moment say, you know, Now, mind you, the pragmatically, the joint housed you and gave you uh you know, a stipend to live and they got you on your feet and they just didn't have the opportunity to just place every single person in Brooklyn. It wasn't It wasn't that simplistic in terms of visas and all that kind of stuff. They would if they could. It wasn't that easy. Anyway, so Reb Lipa comes in 1953 and while he's there, as he so he has his brother, he has his his father, his father of Nachum, my namesake, and he has uh he has his shver. And [snorts] uh basically the entire Shapiro Volkin family in the early '50s is in Cleveland. Like I said earlier, um Cleveland um uh the biggest I guess there was a lot of institutions and a lot of shuls and frumkeit was already um pretty well established. Uh the Hebrew Academy, which is like their primary um cheder, um at that point was 50% refugees, a lot of American-born, 50% children of refugees. There was also a Kalavry Yeshiva, the Kalavry Rebbe who later on moved to Eric Astrol, he lived in Cleveland for a period of time. I have photos of him with some talmidim as well. Um that was like I guess you could say the Chassidisha cheder. Um but that closed down, so uh my uncles started off there some of them, the older ones started off there and then when that closed down, they moved to Hebrew Academy, which is also um um you know, charedisha Yeshiva. Um it was under the the Desslers, um which was more, you know, Yeshivish. Uh they're These are the children of the famous Rav Dessler, they're the ones that established um the Hebrew Academy. Some of people say Hebrew Academy, they you think sort of like a Chabad house school. Hebrew Academy here meant it was like their version of Volterra. It was uh Maybe it started out as a day school, but it quickly shifted to more uh charedisha Yeshiva. And so there was Hebrew Academy, and then you had a bunch of frum shuls. There was Taylor Road Synagogue and Eddy Road Synagogue and uh and you had Shaimer Shabbos. But Bais Yaakov Yeshiva, in terms of the broader audience, would be the biggest, most world-renowned. I actually had a fantastic interview with Let me back up. I I jumped too quickly. So he comes to Cleveland, there's Taylor This is the part that didn't make it into the book partially because it was very hard to validate every nuance. I heard four different versions of the story and it wasn't [snorts] very clear. Anyway, what do you do when you come to a new town? First thing you do is check out the meisters. So, uh So, my Zeda goes and tries to, you know, hears about, you know, this this Yeshiva, this Telshe Yeshiva. And um It's This is part that's vague. So, I'm going to clarify all the vagueness and sort of give you the bigger picture. It's a little bit vague, but something to the degree where some of the Russia Yeshivas were doing what you would call simple things like maybe he saw one Russia Yeshiva like mowing his lawn. Not mowing, sorry, watering his lawn. And another Russia Yeshiva like the boys were playing ball, sort of sitting nearby and maybe talking with them, maybe even playing with them. It was It was That part was incredibly vague cuz I did a bunch of interviews and because it was it was not clear, I left it out. But, I think the bigger picture stands that at first he was a little bit surprised like Russia Yeshiva like watering his lawn or doing mundane things. He never heard of such things. Betel Taita, who are these people? And he admitted very very quickly that uh that that was a mistake. These people are incredible people and he as a as a refugee coming from a different place didn't really acclimate to America that it wasn't the biggest sin to water your lawn. >> [snorts] >> Wasn't such a big Betel Taita. Anyway, um Telshe Yeshiva was nearby where they lived. So, Reb Zalman would give Shiurim. They They Did they know who he was? It appears. I don't have you know, I I spoke to Rabbi Gifter. Mordechai Gifter was one of the Russia Yeshivas. It sounds like him and Rabbi Sorotzkin were like the two Russia Yeshivas in Telshe. And I had spoken to Rabbi Gifter's son, Benjamin. So, told me something very interesting. This part The only that part I mentioned is not in the book, but this part is. Where Rabbi Gifter realized very quickly who Reb Lipa is. Actually, in that interview I was telling you about, the video interview, he said in English cuz the whole interview was in Yiddish, but my Zeda paused and said, "Oh, Reb Gifter, my best friend." Then he switched into English for that one. Maybe because Rav Gifter was an American. >> American, yeah. >> Yeah, very American. Um even though he spoke an incredible [snorts] Yiddish. But he said, "Ah, my best friend." And with a big smile. If anybody wants that interview, I'll happily share it. So So So Benjamin told me that his father realized immediately what kind of going Reb Lipa is. This is This is someone who's incredible. So he he set Benjamin up to learn with him. Teach him Chumash and chazarah from cheder. And he said it was twofold. One, to not pass up on an opportunity to to grab him, you know, while he's still available. Eventually you get more busy, get more established with a job. But also to give parnosa to to a new refugee. Because it's you know, it took a minute to get on your feet and cuz eventually it was a shaikh but I don't think these were overnight sensations. Um I have incredible pictures of Rabbi Sorotzkin and the other Rosh Yeshiva of Tels at my uncle Gavriel of Gavriel Shapiro's bar mitzvah. Um Rav Gifter Punc was out of town for that bar mitzvah, so he's not You don't see him in those photos. It's his wife at my at my father's bar mitzvah. The point is that my Zeda was very close with Rav Gifter and uh Rabbi Sorotzkin and the and and those at Tels. And I have great pictures of the Tels bachrum at a Purim farbrengen with my Zeda. Absolutely phenomenal. So he would give shiurim in Gemara to them and in chidus. A lot more detail as to the nature of like what happened in these Gemara shiurim. You can only imagine. What do you mean? They have their own They have their own derech and you know very insightful stuff about So you you just imagine a Lubavitcher talmid chacham teaching bachrum who obviously are well learned what what life was like in that. So but he had active shiurim the entire time he was there and very involved um with Telshe Yeshiva. They had an incredible mutual respect. And um honestly, a shtikel utopian. I'm not going to I'm not going to, you know Say it something that hasn't been recreated you know. I think now I think there was a stickle pause let's put it mildly there was a pause and and thankfully it's I believe now or the last several years recreated to have an incredible mutual respect and really are benefiting from each other and he loved the buffer You also write about you write about Gifter and the Rebbe right? Yes yes there's actually a chapter called Reb Lippa and Reb Gifter a lot of correspondence and my Zeda was the facilitator there is talk a letter which I I didn't put in cuz it was extremely unrelated but it's interesting you could find it quickly in Iggers on on the website there is a letter where Reb Gifter asked the Rebbe a few questions so there definitely was direct correspondence but in terms of other correspondence I I highly encourage you to read that tremendous chapter called Reb Gifter and Reb Lippa about my Zeda being the facilitator between the two absolutely fascinating I think it'll give tremendous insight of what they were able to accomplish then and thankfully what I believe we're accomplishing today as well a lot of a lot of incredible relationships that that that are happening these days like I said there was a bit of a down time historically between then and now but I think we're back and stronger than ever so in Cleveland in Cleveland in addition to the tells you Shiva and the shuls my Zeda was involved in everything basically in modern terminology it would be it would be shluchus so you name it the mikvah kashrus everything from fabrengens and he would do an an annual Yud Tes Kislev fabrengen and make sure all the rabbonim all the rabbonim were there and again the list is quite substantial but you'll see it in the book of every facet of Jewish life that he was involved with there was a lot of correspondence you know about the Rebbe tremendous amount of correspondence from the Rebbe about different different activities and different individuals to make sure to take care of everything from shalom bayis to helping be in my car of this individual or that individual that and he established SACH um in Cleveland. His home address was the uh letterhead headquarters. So so while in Cleveland um he was incredibly busy. Mind you, he was a shaikh at professionally full-time. That's how he paid his bills. Um but he was involved in every facet of Jewish life um while in Cleveland and the the chapter I think in fact almost like give you bigger picture. Oh, there's one more person before I give you bigger picture was Rabbi Rabbi Yisroel Piekarski who was there for 50 years. A tre- tremendous individual has many many s'farim and on Shas. And the Rebbe in Yechidus told my zaide that by the way men- mention to Rabbi Piekarski that that I have all of his s'farim and I really really enjoy them. I think even something like when is he coming out with the next one? And uh Rabbi Piekarski and my zaide, he was the head of the of the of the America's Rabbonim. So it's a Cleveland just like any other, you know, major from city had had uh Rabbonim and he was he was the head of America's Rabbonim for you know, for 40 50 years. He would speak every year at the at this Kislev farbrengen and he would ask all his shailos and why the Alter Rebbe did this and that and there and my zaide would ask the Rebbe in Yechidus takah if he didn't have the answer to the question and then he would deliver it back to Rabbi Piekarski and it's all in the book. And um and so this is just an example of the kind of relationships and the kind of honestly incredibleness that was going on in Cleveland at the time between Lubavitch and the broader and the broader Jewish community. Okay, it's beautiful. And it really gives you a window into I mean I the Rebbe was encouraging your grandfather to do all of these activities. It gives you a It gives you a window of like you know, he wanted to be in Crown Heights and they said no, go there. And you said I guess this is this is before shlichus is institutionalized but the Rebbe you know uh a Lubavitcher and a man, lamdan, etc. rav I guess being there um how much influence he can have on the community. It's amazing. Um okay, so I want to ask you, I think we'll end off with this, is I want to hear about the the work they've done on your father. But before that, is there anything any other areas of the book you want to just highlight before we before I get to that? Yeah, so the first uh 440 pages of the book, you know, start with the 1800s hardships of Russia and go all the way until uh you know, like I said, the great escape in Tashkent and uh and packing. And um so I think the overarching idea of all of that was the incredible mesiras nefesh and the hardship that they went through during that time period and ultimately having the the heart and the gumption. I I I you know, the speechlessness is there when you see what they went through to reestablish reestablish themselves in the United States and not and not budge an inch. Coming to America continue with the same fire, the same plan, and making sure that they that they have a tremendous s'decha family. Um and like I said, it's it's really the story of Lubavitch history over the last 100 years and quite frankly, on a broader perspective, it's Jewish history. This is what Yidden had to endure over the centuries and essentially since Mount Sinai, and I think the biggest insightful takeaway from that whole piece was what they set up for us. I think it's a little bit hard to look around and hop. They set that up for us. The refugees paved the foundation for every beneficial thing we have today. I don't discredit the massive yeshivas and the beautiful shuls and the crazy phenomenal mikvahs, et cetera. Just I think that the reader will walk away and realize that this entire foundation was all paved by the refugees that first came here because has v'shalom, because unfortunately, you see these stories, they make a tiny left turn, it's It's gone. All of it. One tiny left turn. Okay, we're in America. Okay, we're in America and uh these these things perhaps are not so important, you know, maybe uh So, it's almost like uh the best example I could give is imagine you um I don't know, you're trying to you have you have a you have a gun and you need to hit something on a mountain. You got to hit a soda can on a mountain five, you know, a thousand miles away. All it takes is a tiny millimeter off and forget about about it. That is the equivalency. You come to the United States and if you're not a bazillion percent on target, the whole next generation shifts in a drastically different direction. And that is my one of my incredible >> That's what happened previous generations of people came to America. Yeah. Correct. So, the fact that coming to America and being steadfast in their mission drastically change everything for them and their future generations. Beautiful. Okay. So, like I said, I want to ask you about your father and you already mentioned right in the beginning um the emotional component to writing about your father. And you know, when I was growing up um I was in a little attire and there was a big picture of your father as the uh previous uh scan manal of Alta data. But I didn't know much about him till I read it in the book and uh maybe you could talk a little bit about him and give us a little taste. So, my father definitely picked up on his father and uh and his grandparents. And definitely continued uh their legacy. My father was born in Paris in 1949, came to the United States as a young child, grew up in Cleveland, went to Collver, and then went to Keebler Academy, and then went to Bedford and Dean, and then went to Newark and 770 and got married in 1972. So, you already know all about his all about his background. I over the years, like I told at the beginning, you know, bumped into a lot of people that would give me mild, mild, mild, you know, nuggets here and there. And this honestly this foray into this publication um I guess you could say took what I already knew, but definitely bolstered it and enabled me to to to really really bring him to life and the the his activities in chinuch is is one one unique facet, but even more so it didn't stop in the classroom. He was incredibly involved in all the families um in all the families as well and was always able to see bigger picture. It wasn't like there's a conversation with a child and it kind of ends as soon as the classroom door closes. Rabbi Mordechai Oltmann, alav hashalom, uh was sent by the Friediker Rebbe to establish day schools around the United States, but ultimately he settled in the Bronx, which of course at the time was a was a tremendous Jewish community. >> [snorts] >> So when my father got married in 1972 Rabbi Oltmann recruited him to uh teach in his to teach in his uh in his his school called the Lubavitch Yeshiva of the Bronx. At the time the Lubavitch Yeshiva of the Bronx / Ach Tmimim was a boy's school and then he ended up opening a girl's school as well called Beis Chana. So my father was the principal of Beis Chana when that opened and then was also a rebbe in in Ach Tmimim in in the boy's division. Um he did that for several years until ultimately the Bronx community drastically changed and therefore the school unfortunately had to had to close down. The point is the bigger picture is that my my father's b'nei tzelem and really not not in like a flashy manner was able to see like the larger picture of every child and the family that they're coming from and the kind of engagement in the family. So when the school day was over he would meet the parents homes, not just about the children's education of course, but more so about the farbrengen and to give shiurim and to answer questions and he was extremely involved in their family life. Um so as a even though he was uh teaching their children, but he expanded far beyond that. And um one tremendous family that were extremely fortunate to be momish like family with till today is Dr. Feldman and their family who my father met in the Bronx. He taught their children. He taught their children and became the family Mashpiya. And there's tremendous amount of information in the book from my interviews with the Feldman children about all of that. I don't want to give all of it away, but I think my my point is that I'm giving you this bigger picture that he didn't just sort of, you know, teach their children. He was extremely involved in the families as well. Um even when the Babachev of the Bronx was let us just say, you know, needing to unfortunately close down. Plus it was time where the Feldman family was moving to Crown Heights. My father made sure that they caught up and were well acclimated to come to a proper Babachev here coming from a day school. So being really really involved in their lives and and many families' lives. One of the Feldman children told me probably one of the best stories in the entire book. So my father was extremely close with the Feldmans. But didn't just come via hole to put it in simple words, okay? Now you're from go to 770, get pushed around and enjoy. So Rabbi Binyamin Klein had told, I think it was um part of me it slips my mind who he mentioned it to. But Rabbi Binyamin Klein said the shame the Rebbe that he wishes there was more people like my father who was so close with the Babachev family enabling them to acclimate and actually be a part of the community. They should never they shouldn't feel like you know, second class outsiders. And it wasn't like my father, you know, told the Rebbe every I'm sure he wrote a duff of course, but in saying that was tremendous for me that Rabbi Dr. David Feldman shared with me that Rabbi Binyamin Klein told him about that. So just the the bigger picture of my father's world view and method of operation was meant that we're all we're all about all the about we're all Yidden and and he really felt and and and lived that his entire life. And then later on when it was time for the Feldman children to get married and again, you know, we're not talking about, you know, 2026. We're talking about the '80s. Life was a little bit different. We're, you know, about Shiva family. It wasn't very, very common um for someone who comes from about Shiva family to marry someone who is a long-standing Lubavitch. And my father let's just say advocated and made it happen. And ultimately, ultimately when the engagement happened because Dr. Feldman's family and specifically in this case his daughter Sarah was close with the Rabbitson. So Sarah, when she told the Rabbitson that she's engaged to Levi Shemtov and the Rabbitson was very, very happy and gave brochos and said many beautiful things. But the point is that was right after they were engaged. So I guess I guess that was the breakthrough where they got engaged and now they have the Rabbitson's haskama. And but the point is that that that's how my father operated. And the same thing he always had Shabbos guests from Adas Yisroel. Not to say other people didn't. I'm just here to talk talk about my father. I'm sure many people in Crown Heights did and he kept those close friendships for many year. I interviewed some people from Adas Yisroel who my father was given brocha achita at their wedding and that's how close he was with them because he would always have them for Shabbos them and and um and another family interview mentioned that at his wedding even though he started to did Adas Yisroel, but he momish wasn't like coming from a not from background, more like like very, very modern. So the person was extremely familiar with Yiddishkeit, but incredibly lost at this at this Lubavitch wedding. And my father basically glued himself to him and made him feel comfortable the entire evening making sure that he didn't feel lost at his own child's wedding and you know, getting lost in the crowd. So in the Bronx, my father, like I said, was involved tremendously with the children and their families and really did not have took the Rebbe's perspective and took his family's perspective that that that Baruch Hashem we're blessed to be one large family. Eventually, like I said, the Bronx closed down because the neighborhood changed. Rabbi Yankel Hecht, Rabbi J.J. Hecht, quickly caught my father because it was exactly the same time when the Persians were escaping from Iran, the children, the famous story. He set up a Yeshiva which lasted about a year up until the children were able to reestablish themselves with family. So, he grabbed him for that one year to teach cuz he was available now that the Bronx closed. And then, and I have a small a very very small, but I interviewed some some people on that era as well. Even though communication was tough, but my father really really cared and did everything he could to see to it that the children were comfortable. And he even brought a few children into Yechidus for their Bar Mitzvah. So, in 1981, Yechidus was not extremely popular, but the Rebbe took Yechidus from the Persian children and he brought in about four or five boys for their Bar Mitzvah. And thanks to Rabbi Harlick and Upland who has just tremendous foresight, he he he sees my father walking up the steps in 770 with a bunch of boys and said, "Where are you going?" I said, "Actually, I'm going to Yechidus." "What?" He throws a recorder in his pocket. Cuz I asked Rabbi Harlick later, I'm like, "How how did that come about?" It's like, "No, your father was just passing by and I threw it in his pocket and it's recorded. This Yechidus from 1981 is recorded. I transcribed it and I put it in the book." Of course, after the Yechidus, my father elaborated to the children exactly what the Rebbe said, so he treated them as if a father would take in their children for Yechidus. Rabbi Yankel Hecht's Yeshiva, of course, like I said, quickly closed down. Ohr L'Tora quickly recruits him. And this is a big shift because my father always taught in day school environments. He actually interviewed some of my cousins who were who were attending Ohr L'Tora. He mildly didn't didn't disclose why, but sort of wanted to understand how Ohr L'Tora operates. And he took his, let's call it day school perspective or Shapiro perspective, whatever you want to call it, took that same exact measure and came to Aleitera. And in Aleitera, he momish was a phenomenal contributor. He started off as a melamed. I hear incredible stories and they're in the book about his talmidim saying his outside the box perspective, always positive, making sure that the that the that the that the chassidish kite is is dripping in their bones with joy, with joy. You know, different generations operated differently, so it wasn't like in a way of like, you know, men tornish and things of that nature. It was very much about, "Wow, the privilege and the schus that we have to have a rebbe, to have chassidus, and to have a Torah." And he was very very operated very optimistically. And there's an incredible amount of him in Aleitera and as well as the families and the things that he would do behind the scenes for the community because obviously as a melamed, you get very very quick insight into the nature of hardships of people's families and being able to being able to attend to those hardships. One tiny story, there's too many, so I'm going to give you one tiny story. There's a I heard this firsthand from the person it happened with. So, the boy a boy comes off it's it's freezing in the winter, a boy comes off the bus, walks into Aleitera. My father at this point my father wasn't even the assistant principal, he was a he was a teacher. He sees the boys without a coat. He sees the boy without a coat. He grabs another boy like his friend. He pulls him aside, slips him some cash and says, "You need to go to Chazanov's right now. Walk with him and go buy him a coat." And he wasn't even in his class. The boy that told me was the boy that my father gave the cash to. It wasn't like there was some Aleitera fund. I'm sure Aleitera had its own financial hardships, you know, trying to educate hundreds and hundreds of boys and nobody's paying tuition. I mean, like I don't think that they had a fund for clothing. And um the kids are that's only like one one like tiny component and then being a very involved. So, I have a chapter a chapter on that uh specifically about Ali Tara and all his involvement in the children. I have a separate chapter specifically about the community affairs um what he was involved with in in seeing to it that uh with Derek Harris. Another incredible thing that surfaced in my research was I think Rabbi Lustig. Rabbi Lustig uh the principal of Ali Tara for many many decades, an incredible individual. He was very very helpful. I interviewed him. He said, "Your father smiled a lot, but um on this day he smiled more than ever." What happened was somebody in the community actually quite financially uh well off was going through tremendous finan- tremendous financial hardship. And he needed serious funds to get back on his feet. The problem is he writes into the Rebbe, "Here's the problem. If I go to a Gamach or um in 5 minutes it's going to get out that this very very successful person is doing very poorly. And what happens is that if you're in business and people get wind that you're not doing well, they just stop doing business with you because perhaps you're you're not stable enough to work with. It's too risky. And Lashon Hara travels very very quickly. So, he he felt he's cornered. What am I supposed to do? Obviously, he uh it sounds like the bank wasn't an option. And he couldn't go he felt that he felt he couldn't go to a Gamach. And uh he felt he couldn't just, you know, approach you know, certain Gvir. I mean, he didn't know what to do. And the Rebbe said, "Go to Reb Lipshitz Go go to Lipshitz Shapiro. Go to Lipshitz Shapiro. He will see to it that you'll procure the funds needed to reestablish yourself with Derek Harris and with dignity." And Rabbi Lustig was telling me, "I saw your father like he he was beaming." And of course, my father took the privilege, hopped to it, enabled this person to uh he was able to solicit funds. Nobody knew where the money was going to. The person, thank goodness, successfully got back on his feet, paid back the money, and Baruch Hashem had a very successful career, and uh got back on his feet. That's a a story that Rabbi Listic shared with me. Mind you, this is a man in Hinukh and the Rebbe is saying The Rebbe is sending someone to him. Someone to him cuz he knows that he it will not only get done but get done with Derech Eretz, which is obviously the the highest level of tzedaka. It's just before giving someone a job. So, Amazing. And I remember one story that I saw is that um after the Rebbe came out of Mivtza Meledis, everyone knows that in school it's a big to do, you know, with them I don't know how it works today, but there are donuts, you know, you come to the class and um I I my kids are in a different school, but they they're still doing donuts. I don't know what's happening in all of Tzeireh. But apparently Rebbe Chadakov called your father after the Rebbe came out of Mivtza Meledis and told him that it's kedai to make a whole big deal out of it in the school. So, your father, based on that, instituted the whole birthday party celebrations that happen in in all the classrooms. Correct. He hopped to it and did it same day. And it was the exact equivalency when Mitzvah Neshek came out while he was in the Bronx, he immediately by hand wrote up a brochure. Obviously, there was a lot of activity in Crown Heights and tremendous people that propelled Mitzvah Neshek. I'm just explaining what my father did in the Bronx. This Immediately before Shabbos, created a a quick handwritten brachas in English and translation, transliteration, very let's call it Chabad house friendly with the zmanim. Immediately made copies and every single girl and mother affiliated with the school uh immediately got that handwritten uh Xerox copy of of what to do on Mitzvah Neshek. So, my father um he did everything with extreme passion. Honestly, I I I would lovingly say that I I definitely carry that trait. Like anyone that sees the book realizes I put a tremendous tremendous amount of love and hard work into it. It's not a small kuntres. It's very big. It's It's very expensive print. It is It is a thick hard copy, you know, it's it's not just physical I'm explaining physically. And also [snorts] when you open it up the tremendous detail cuz I I don't under I don't have this perspective of doing things, you know, half-baked or small. Uh to my to my detriment or to my you know, goodness graciousness. But the point is that that it's it's it's incredibly thorough and well done and no half-baked. And my father definitely had that exact same perspective. Um and when it came to Mishna Yomi Ba'al Peh, which is obviously about voice still, we always do Mishna Yomi Ba'al Peh. That's not novel to Lubavitch, but he took all the Tzeirei HaKodesh pre-existing program and Kav Ya'akov blew it up, turned it into this massive thing encouraging the boys outside of class to to Chazar Mishna Yomi Ba'al Peh and brought the boys by the Rebbe cuz it was a gift for for the Rebbe Freidich Nissan. There's a whole section in the book just on Mishna Yomi Ba'al Peh. We're talking about it already, the men's. So, these are going to be people you recognize. I mean, most of them are are Zaydes at the Some of them are Zaydes. That's how close it is. Not even everyone's a Zayde in there. And Mishna Yomi Ba'al Peh, you know, going everything from how he inspired the boys to make this a big, you know, strong part of their identity because he knows that they'll be able to carry this, you know, through their entire lives. So, my father's work in Oholei Torah um was very very passion heavy. Even in the morning he facilitated Shacharis. And this is another part of an interview in there as well where he would Chazar over a Hayom Yom. But he would Chazar it over like he's living it. It wouldn't It wouldn't Today's Hayom Yom and such a It was nothing like that. It would be the Hayom Yom with the background stories and and how it how it's applicable to us, etc. So, yeah, my father did not do anything um half-baked. And um and really believed in all the things that he did. He was very very passionate person. So, when it came to community affairs or came to things with the children, um that's how I guess you could say he became I don't know if a popular figure or known person and that's why I got was able with so many interviews to learn to learn so much about him. Very sadly, um Tavshin Nun Haftaltsivin and Tavshin Nun He was at that point just turned 41 years old. He wasn't feeling well on Shabbos. Just wasn't feeling well, nothing too astronomical. Shabbos was over. He goes to his chaver, his very close chaver Dr. Feldman. You know, Dr. Feldman uh Mamesh a tzaddik, you know, he would open up his office on Motzei Shabbos. Dr. Feldman is is incredible individual and Miracles should be written about him as well. I'm pretty sure it's going to happen. Um he uh opened up his office Motzei Shabbos. So, um my father was, you know, was there. It's it's all in and he again, this still normal. He's He's actually waiting upstairs in the house cuz Dr. Feldman's basement was his what is it was his medical clinic. So, my father's on the first floor, you know, schmoozing with the children. Um they're already older at this time. And like, okay, the office is open and families are coming in. So, comes and my father was the first one to be seen. And unfortunately, uh within a few minutes of sitting with Dr. Feldman, he had a heart attack. And he passed away in the arms of his dear long-time friend. Lot of details. That's all I came the whole way. I was at a chassan not long ago. Maybe three three years ago and somebody was telling me that there was a whole buzz. This is on Motzei Shabbos. And there was a whole buzz and they realized that the Rabbi Shapiro had passed away. And they wanted to do the Tahara. I I I don't think I've I I couldn't believe it. I I never heard of somebody dema- demanding, "I want to do my my childhood melamed's Tahara." These were boys there in 770 at the time. He said the Chevra Kadisha, you know, did it. It does not appear that they considered that an option. But just the idea of them vying to want to do his Tahara. And uh yeah, it's very unfortunate. Uh to to put it mildly. He passed away very young, at only 41 years old. And and in his sh- in his very very short life, he definitely left a tremendous legacy. And there's a lot of things you can learn about him in the book. The way he treated people in the community, whether it was financial, or whether they were baalei teshuvah, or whether their child was doing uh poorly in yeshiva, or whether a child needed extra assistance. And it wasn't like today that Baruch Hashem we have a tremen- dous amount of social services. You know, he was able to tell when this boy, you know, this is before uh all of the diagnosis we have today, he needed some space. Okay, great. Here's a few dollars, go to Kingston Avenue, pick up a bagel, you know, go get go get a soda. He was able to sniff out what was going to be um helpful to this child to enable him to make sure to smile in yeshiva. And not to be, you know, not to have a bitter sh- have a bitter taste towards Yiddishkeit. And and um the the starkeit, I guess you could say that he has from his parents and his grandparents, and making sure that Yiddishkeit is in your and Chassidishkeit and the Rebbe's mamesh in your bones. You know, David Feldman shared a very fantastic piece. When they first moved to Crown Heights, he, you know, he disclosed to my father how Hakafos is too much. It won't be a shocker to most people if I say this, you know, Hakafos, it's it's I can't breathe. I can't do it. So I'm uh I don't think I'm going to go. And you know, it's very hard to admit to that. So my father says, you know, it's hard for me, too. It's very You know, a lot of bachurim, a lot of pushing, you know, this So what I do is I find a spot, maybe in the back where you're not being pushed around. And I soak up the avir. Like I would I would never give away that opportunity not to go to a kofitz in 770. It's a golden opportunity. Every single person watching and listening to this right now would pay a million dollars to go right now to the Rebbe's kofitz. And sometimes when you have something, you think it's going to last forever. So at the time, my father was telling him just go in there, soak it up, find a good corner, and you'll thank me forever. I mean, maybe he didn't say those exact words, but let's just say the person that related the story feel feels indebted in that regard. So, um my father's legacy definitely carries on till today, particularly in in the area of organized Mishnayos Baal Peh. You have it in every single camp, every single Gan Yisroel, every single Lubavitcher chadar worldwide. Like I said, it pre-existed, but he systematized it on a very high level. When the boys were honored, he would bring all the rabbonim in town, but the boys, the the older Torah boys were the one on the dais on stage, and you'll see in the photographs. He put the boys on the stage, and then the next level, on the ground level, was all the rabbonim. The boys were the star of the show. Again, very, very ahead of his time. He collected money, like I said, all the Torah just didn't have extra funds lying around. Where did all the prizes come from? There's hundreds and thousands of dollars of s'farim. Where did it come from? The Feldmans were tremendous contributors. It seems like they were actually one of the key contributors, uh at least from my research. When my father would send out reports to the parents, like almost like a like a scorecard, and I have one in there, sort of like a nice letter about what's going on with the Mishnayos Baal Peh, sort of be because the to encourage people, I think at the official competition ran from Yud Shvat to Yud Alef Nissan. Um So, during that time period and on top on the top it says you know Mrs. Miriam Feldman's father. So, my point is that the Feldmans also had a tremendous host to fund the Sorum or fund a tremendous amount of the Sorum. And um these are the kind of things that he really wanted and successfully and his legacy definitely carry I mean in in many respects his his stories and his heart's guide but this is definitely one that that runs on very deep in in every Lubavitch message where message where you find children. Amazing. Okay, and you're definitely uh continuing the legacy. And uh I encourage everybody to buy the book if you haven't done so yet. And this has been a real treat and uh thank you so much for sharing everything. My absolute pleasure and tremendous tremendous hatzlacha. Continue that uh hatzlacha to you Yossi with their hair publication and the podcast that's absolutely phenomenal. And I hope people take me up on my offer. Okay. All right, hatzlacha rabba. Thank you. Zay gezunt.