Ep. 35: It All Started With A Knock On The Rebbetzin's Door with Rabbi Yehuda Clapman

So the next day I called up Davidson to thank her in the name of the children for the cradles and the candies and so she starts like to apologize to me. I said my husband I didn't want to hear such a thing. So I told her that since you tell me this I'd like to share something with you. I said on our way home my wife asked the children how they'd like to visit and my daughter said it's better they should be together one minute earlier then we should come in to speak and said I'm Yasi Cayman welcome to among an ongoing faban about life as a vibrant connection with the rebba and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches teaches us each and every day. Rabbi Clapman, how are you? >> It's good to be here today. >> Okay, I'm very excited. >> Before we start, I'd like to give a shout out to all the time to give up from their own time and his name is Ben at the moment and also told the girls who involved him. >> Okay. Amen. >> Okay. So, let me ask you about yourself and um I would like to know a little bit about you. I understand that >> I'm still trying to find out a little about me also. >> Okay. Maybe we'll find out together. But I think you were I I understand that you were born. We're in Crown Heights right now and you were born not too far from here. Is that correct? >> I was born in Bedford Styverent. That's on a few blocks on the north side of Eastern Parkway. And when I was four, we moved to downtown to Church Avenue, which is now already becoming a haven full moving there and all the Holy Flatbush. >> East Latush. >> Yeah, that's where I grew up. I went to Yeshiva on East 91st Street. The building is still there. Unfortunately, it's not in Jewish at the moment. >> And um that was my >> the name of it by David Leez. It was a branch a Brooklyn branch of the Shiva Mift in Queens. They had a branch in Manhattan in the Bronx. I think it was called something all Mosha or something. And then the Brooklyn branch was where I went. >> So growing up there was no uh recognizable connection to Labavich that your family had. Well, when I was about seven or eight, uh, predominantly I'm talking about the B not Sham Bman was a brother who passed away a year ago approximately and he used to come to the sh where we don was called technically more commonly known as Rabbi Baron Holtz a delegation of used to come to make the lively tal >> the tal and uh >> what years so this is like uh >> in the 50s >> 50s okay >> and One particular as I mentioned my name beman he used to jump by my father every time you have to come to office I have to come to office and finally one year wasn't take no for an answer and he grabbed my father told go home you just relax whatever you want to do it goes all night but some point in the evening you have to come and that's yeah my father took me maybe I was 8 years old or something like that I don't know exactly and that was when I saw Deb for the first time and like they say in the world of romantics that was love at site. >> I was in 770 before because my mother was the office lady in Disha and they needed a play the co printed uh khan play or put in play maybe both and uh the shiva needed for the boys to be able to put on the play. I was traveling on public transportation since I was four and a half. So to come to 770 when I was six it was no big deal. It was already a I was already a culture traveler already. But then I didn't see that. But that time and that happened on >> she sent you to get the book from from the meis. >> Yeah. 770. >> So I came 770. But >> so that first time was in the yuds. >> Yeah. >> Approximately that you came from to see the >> Yeah. >> And you remember that vividly? >> Oh yeah. >> Can you describe it a little bit? I just saw a sea of black but I saw the rebu and somehow I guess you can say one shama touching another with no peripherals around it. I didn't know then all the things that did I didn't know about all the other fabangans. I didn't know about I didn't know about those things. I just knew this is the Reba and it was such a a pull attraction that I kept coming back and slowly I learned about all the other things and etc. >> So while you're learning in your yeshiva you somehow on your own started >> attending 770 more regularly and etc. >> Yeah well the fabans came later because I didn't know about them originally. So what happened? How how did this come from from a one time coming to hapus to becoming more? >> Well, it was every that happened two or three years and then I found out let's say put him exactly how things fell into place. I remember exactly you know which years this happened or that happened but it was over a process of time that I found out the whole picture. >> Oh and you ended up going to during that time? >> Noid I didn't go to till I was 17. >> So how how did that happen? How was that arranged? By that time really I was in when [clears throat] I went to high school I went to Mirha >> in Brooklyn. >> Yeah. And uh my parents wanted us to get an English education because my father shared upon us if I'll go to high school when I you know come and um so I went there but already even in ninth grade already I was banging and um >> so you're already very entrenched with Lavich while you're in the middle >> high school. >> I paid the price for it also. >> What do you mean? >> But I don't want to get into it. They didn't see I tied with Labavich and I was the [snorts] I was the you know guy in the middle. >> You're the Labavich representative in Mir. >> Yeah, there was one or two others like Galwinsky. There were a few but uh I had my share of interesting or non-interesting events there. >> So were there other people in Lavish that you were in touch with that were helping you along the way? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's like Bahim and different different people like that. >> Yeah. Bam. I knew Abram Stone Zund and Galitzki Rabia Gross who was very close with Debbie's mother. He was a big influence in my life. >> You just met him in 770. >> Rabbi Gross I met in the country once and uh I became part of the family by him and he was the one that slowly built me up into understanding more you know about the labage and his activity so to speak. So you would come from East Flatbush and then you had besides 770 you had >> in those days to walk to 770 you used to go through the hospital through King's County and they passed the rule that they weren't going to allow children to go through the buildings without adult supervision. >> You would walk in the hospital. >> Yeah. >> So uh there was one in the gate and around the perimeter of the hospital there was a road gate must be 8t tall or something but one bar was missing. In those days I was a skinny kid so I was able to get through that bar. So I didn't have to walk all around the Albony Avenue to because we lived on 38th which is opposite Kingston Avenue. >> So I didn't have to walk around so I was able to get through the bars the bar missing left enough room for me to get through and he used to come all the time. >> Was anyone else from Isl? >> There were a lot of people that worked for me but they were further towards the 50s like Rabbi and Rabbi Book and >> different areas. Yeah. So what happened by your first? >> The first asked many questions. Devil was very uh kindly and very soothing. And they asked a few questions and Debbie one they asked about putting on the Bam film and Debbie gave me two conditions to fulfill before I started. And then I asked about But I wanted so I asked if I can change and told me that from you can change or from you can change but you can't change from anything back from so therefore told me that you should make sure for sure you know decide that this is why you do it for your whole life and then if that decision will be made then you can you can change next morning you got changed already but [laughter] actually by the time I all those things I didn't have to do benching and mashita once they gave the goats next morning changed >> and you asked about the >> no that came later on. So what what was that in >> a different I told them I have to get out of just it was like it was just how to get out >> want to go to >> yeah so then told me I don't know if you could switch in the middle was it was so de told me I don't know if you could switch in the middle and came out of had to stay >> you had to stay in mir Yeah. >> Till the end of the school year. >> Yeah, that was already in 12th. I didn't bring it up again. >> What do you mean? >> But I didn't go to I didn't go to English too much anyway. I went had 770 in the afternoon that I used to come to most of the time or quite quite a bit of time. And as much as I was able to get out of English, I came to 770. >> So So how did you make the switch to to Labavage? when I in 12th grade when I went into so Deb told me before anything Deb told me I should make sure I graduate make sure I graduate that was a heavy load because I hardly went to English too much I go make up and then three months go make up so much time studies then said make sure I graduate and then Deb told me that since my parents agreed that I should be able to learn for one year before they want I should go to college so De said that was like a a beautiful opening for them he Good. Wonderful. Now you have that year. So you'll learn TA that year, you know, putting in much diligence and effort and your parents will see you happy learning TA and then have Kohm Kool-Aid the whole day long. They'll tell you that you should continue. And sure enough, I remember that one Friday, my father was buttoning his shirt, changing, you know, for Shabas is buttoning down the Shabas shirt and we were home from the work that Shabas and all of a sudden that my father told me that mommy and I see that you're happy learning Tada the whole day long. So you should continue exactly the word the devil used >> without you ever telling him obviously said you never told him the said that. Yeah. >> So I asked which is to go to. So Debu boiled it down between Montreal and Newark. Newark was the forerunner to Marstown. And um Deb told me I should go check out Montreal and see how I feel about it. And then Deb switched gears and said, "But you know it's so much time to travel there and it cost so much money. Why should you spend the time to go there? You wait will be here soon for Fabang, whether it was in or whichever one mentioned. said, "You'll speak to them when they're here." Then they said, "Newwork. Newark is much closer. It's not too much time to travel there. Doesn't cost too much money. You should go check out Newark. I already understood where the Reb meant." >> So you didn't even need to meet on holiday. >> Maybe I spoke a word or two. I remember. But went to Newark was very I really liked it when when I went like in June to check it out. I couldn't wait for the next month to start. I should be in yeshiva there already. So in Newark there was uh so this is who's Dan Holl in Newark then? Dan Holl passed away as young people was he was the Mashia >> and Friedman was the lady came to Mar to Ali and uh Stanber was the >> and when so when you're in New York already I imagine that you're coming every toan >> and everything like that >> but by that time I knew all those things already anyway. You're already in. >> Yeah. Yeah. But I was able to actually come with no problems, you know. Of course, we made that hole crazy when there wasn't when there was a sufficient and we tried to they cup that we should be able to come in and that's at a different time. >> You saying because that was a suffic. >> Yeah. The ven we came all the suffician that >> like when >> huh >> like when >> usually for example comes out shabasang but it's at least as far as my >> like the shabas before or afterwards. >> Yeah. So there were certain >> so sometimes you would come and say oh we heard somebody maybe you could say for oh that must be you know boys will be boys you know >> then h wasn't too fond of of that >> and um so and when you were by so you're there for a year how long did you stay in New York I stayed in I had a lot of trouble in New York first of all at that time My Yiddish was very shak and me didn't speak English and Freman didn't speak English. So it was very hard for me to get along. I had trouble getting because I had nothing to contribute to I couldn't understand the shar so I had no input and when I went in in this with the spoken English >> mhm >> the first time I went in the asked me at the end when read my whole short novel because it was so many pages asked me in English you don't speak Yiddish too well do you and I said no not too well never spoken English the next Deb asked me to yish. So I said abyisl spoke in English. The next year I figured well since deb asked a question in yiddish he's not going to ask any questions just speaking yish now. So from that time on I wrote at the end of the settle I asked to please speak in English. >> And your settle you wrote in English. >> At the end of the settle >> but you wrote that you wrote it in English the settle. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So you asked the to speak English please speak in English. >> The rabbit did. >> Yeah. Yeah. So when we got married one year, Deb started speaking in Yiddish >> by the >> after the >> Oh, afterwards. >> And my wife and I, you know, through the corner peripheral vision was just not even really turning around, just making eye contact. And my wife didn't understand she was at that time my was okay. But so when Deb paused and asked to please speak in English, start over from the very beginning. That was uh getting off course. I forgot what I was supposed to be answering. >> You're talking about Marstown and >> Oh, so I had a lot of difficulty. I had a lot of difficulty in Newark. >> I told it to Deb. So I asked them about switching. So Deborah wasn't for next year. Deborah wasn't interested in discussing next year because from other to what does it help to switch? Where you going to go? >> I want I didn't want to go back to Newark next year. Yes. So I was just for next year where I should go. >> But other shivas are better with with English. >> I I just t it over there. >> Okay. >> So Debbie wasn't going to didn't agree to just throw out dis you know just disconnect from six months. So Debb told me you should go to that. There's a lesson for everybody. Deb told me you should go to that hole and you speak to them one time a second time a third time or as many times as necessary until they'll give you. So in other words to get a which is very hard for many young people to adjust to to finding a and a proper one and everything is very difficult and then h has to mix in said it's their job and you should keep complaining you should say keep bugging them until it works. So it got a little better after that and the next year I went to >> So your yiddish problem didn't resolve. Yeah. Yeah. You know, really I was ready for the blows. >> Yeah. So, what you're talking about the late >> Yeah. >> So, still >> Yeah. >> was >> I learned him. I mean, I should say he taught them. >> And um but that was a common thing for the Baham to go to >> and we had a lot of the Americans there at that time >> and you're there for a while. for one year. >> For one year then I came back after you know by I came back and then I learned 770 and then >> So you learned the 770 >> then I got married >> and you got married in >> Lammed Lammed. So you're new 770 till you got married. I know you're cyer. When did that happen? When I was [snorts] 17, I told the Reba the Zerans moved into his flatbush in time. So I started learning a week after he moved in. And I started learning by him about it though when it came and I went into so I told I started learning by Zer if I should continue told me if he'll tell you that you're until now you should continue until you're good scribe until good scribe said in Hebrew but because that word in Hebrew translated in English he said until you're a good cipher scribe I'm still waiting for it to happen but >> you've been doing it for a while. Yeah, in Islam taught you safus and everything. >> Yeah, for that I give thanks to three people. One is that when I was about 5 years old and shabas morning once was my father. So when they took out the safe potato brought the safet be oh they have to roll to the k of that day. So my father was not one of the two that was doing the gila to roll the safety potato to the proper portion for the day. But nonetheless, he grabbed me by the wrist, brought me up to the beam and showed me all those ammud that are going by so quickly from one side to the other. Each column is written by hand and together each with each column each each line, each letter and I was amazed. It looks so perfect. How could it be? I was only five or six years old. I said this I have to see. And I don't know how much more my father told me but that was the seed planted. >> Mhm. >> And then um I did try in high school I was friendly with a young buffer whose father was a s from the lapush but his father wasn't interested in teaching me and the zerans moved into the neighborhood. So remember zerkin started teaching me and then uh [clears throat] later on he felt that he couldn't give me enough shimos enough practical experience in film. So he arranged I should learn by Rabbi Matlin which I was by him for two years. >> Yeah. And just to explain what shim is shim means to get practical hands-on experience. Today many people they learned by some be cipher and the master so to speak shows you two three times how to sober and then he's out trying to drum up customers for for bigger things. Rabbi Mlin saw every single thing I did for two years and he was sitting closer to me than I'm sitting to you. And I like to say if he was any closer I' have sewn his eyeballs up into the trillin but it's not much of an exaggeration and we were literally shoulder by shoulder and he watched everything for two years. That's what we're giving somebody shimish. You're watching him and guiding him. It's not a question if you're a fast learner or slow learner. There are certain things that come about through the experience of time. >> Mhm. And many of the young people going in today don't have that because they just learned by somebody. They learn how to write a bunch of letters and they're nice calligraphers but they didn't learn the they didn't learn all the aspects of saffus and even what they did learn they don't have enough shimish in it >> right also I mean he was local he was like the the inhouse cipher in at the time >> well when I worked by him I worked him at night but I didn't want to give up being a b yeshiva so then haha had to make an exception that I should be able to be by him and still be considered yes >> so this is why you were learning in 1070 Yeah. And um at the same time I tried uh you know getting out Reb stories from him which he wasn't a very big talker about what he saw by the Reb. >> What do you mean like what was he involved in? >> He checked. >> Mhm. >> So I was interested in hearing you know what it was all about. He spoke very little. >> So what did he tell you? >> One thing he told me Debbie asked him to check many pairs of film >> for other people. No, this he's talking about his own film. Deb said he wanted Deb. He should check Deb's film. >> Oh, they should. Yeah. Okay. >> So, he told the This I didn't make notes of so I can't say I'm 100% accurate. He told the I don't want company. The company is the bakim. No matter how you'll try to doctor it up and package it and everything and Rabbi Gro will bring it out. Whatever you do to Baham, we're going to find out about it. She said, "I don't want company." So Deb says she could do it here. So they put a small table in Deb's room facing Gon Parkway. And what was Debbie doing? She told me Deb called me to check his not to check him. I don't know. De was doing supposed to do. I don't know. I wasn't I was watching the trill not. Then he told me that he checked I don't know if he mentioned the number. He checked some pairs of film. Two, three, whatever it couldn't sit. >> You mean cuz Deb has four pairs of film. Debor four pair. I don't know. He said a lot. I don't know if it was four or six or 10 or he had other fill in other patches there also. >> Neb had other filling besides his own that he used every day. >> I didn't say he used these for every day either. I don't know what he did. We just know what he had. >> Read had a lot of pers. >> Yeah. And sets of parishes >> and uh he got up to leave. He wasn't formally say goodbye. He just got up to leave. said, "Um, how much I owe you?" She said, "I didn't finish." So he said, "But I want to pay you." She said, "Um, a worker gets paid at the end of the job." So De told him that if you don't if I don't pay you for what you did till now, I won't wear this throne tomorrow. And since I want to wear them, you should please tell me so I could pay you for what you did till now. And you'll do the other, you know, get paid for that, too. They've insisted on paying before he put them back on. >> Did he tell you anything about like the paras or the or anything interesting like that? >> No. He did tell me that he wanted Deb to take a look at a certain letter. He didn't tell me what was disturbing him. He didn't which letter. He just told me blank thing. He wanted to show de something. So he turned around. De was sitting by his desk and he went over and he just stood there waiting for Deborah to acknowledge him. So he told the deba that I would like the to look at this person asked him are they kosher the way they are if we could just take a look at them he said like I'm asking a very pointed question are they kosher the way they are so he said yes so sewed them up he wasn't interested in getting don't make it better don't go full sewed them Interesting. Rabi Matlin was he was from Russia. >> Yeah, I think so. >> I don't know much about him. Okay. And he also he also did um I think Mashikioso is the one that finished it, right? >> Yeah. He didn't finish. He checked it before it was ready for the >> He didn't finish it, but he's the one he's the one that he was the safe >> him and Zerkin. No, but Zerin checked the safety by night and by mountain by day. >> Say after the sem. >> No, no, before the sem. >> You're saying so >> whenever wanted to get the safe ready for it wasn't check. It wasn't looked at for like 28 days. >> But it was finished already >> except for the last word to whatever. >> Ah, so they're the ones that that finished it off. >> They No, they're the ones that checked it to make sure that, you know, everything's still in good order. And then somebody else was the one actually penned in the list letters. >> Mhm. Okay. So you're in 770. How I mean in general a question. How how was it for you? I mean you have a you came from a different background but you're thrown into to Newark and forad and >> I wasn't thrown in. I wasn't sold in. I was sent. >> So you were happy. It was good. It was it was it was the right it was the right thing to be. >> What was like the adjustments that needed to happen? >> Nothing. >> Nothing. You're right at home. >> Okay. Perfect. Then at one time Berserk wanted I should get more experience in cafetera. So he arranged with somebody on each side that I should be able to work on. So I came to that hole and I told him that uh wants I should get more experience in but I don't want to give up being so we can't answer right now. Did extensive research into the person that should want to vouch for that guy's integrity. When they came to that conclusion that these and everything then they said okay I can go because I was already getting married and I knew what I wanted to do. So I was able to get experience in over there and by night by Rabbi Mlin. >> So you got married in tough lid you had this before before the parents are in then also. >> Yeah. Is there anything from that you want to share in particular >> or in general? >> It was something very interesting. The whole family went in and on from my wife's side also some people went in and everybody gave it saddle except for my father and I everybody else writes hieroglyphics. It's completely illegible. Mhm. >> And took all and then he asked my father two things. First he asked my father where is the youngest son? They never saw the family together looked around as well. Where is his younger brother? Where's the younger son? So my father told yes. So my mother said you should tell why. My father said he's coming into this another whatever was a week and a half. He said he didn't think rabb would let him in twice in one week. >> So he chose to go and buy you know >> your family had been in this before. >> No that was the first time >> and then asked my father very interestingly you take a look what's doing by people's shabas table. My sister didn't know protocol what would be correct. So she gave her settle to my father to give in. He didn't know if it take from a lady. So Deba looked at my friend said, "How come your daughter made you ach?" Deba felt it was a breach in Aninguin's parents to ask your parents to do something to you. >> She said that how come your daughter made you and >> Rabbi explain said that explicitly. >> What >> that it's a breach in in >> He said that >> I should tell that to my kids. >> Huh? I said this. See, but doing Can you pass the soda? Get up and get it yourself. You know, >> I think I'm the only one that I don't just ask anybody once I get up and get him. Somebody sitting here. What are you bothering him for? >> Right. >> And and then the >> So then spoke to my father in Yiddish was in Yiddish and I I didn't have the the gumin or the I just couldn't ask to change languages. So at that point it was still difficult to to understand. >> No no no no but it was major difference for other people >> for other people. So okay >> but there was a few interesting things there. The first thing is when I say about the everybody else was hieroglyphics except for my father and I. My letter was a week later. So we made up that everybody would go in together and then eventually everybody would go out and I would stay another minute. The Deb was watching the door as they were going out. Deb didn't take his eyes off the family and the door. As soon as the door closed, Deb grabbed glasses to put on to read my settler. And that's when I realized the glass had nothing to do with writing. >> He's reading >> de with reading. Deb read all those settler even the ones that no pen including mine and no glasses nothing. And he's watching the I was watching the door. As soon as that was on the other side, the family was on the other side. I thought have a grip glisten and put on to eat my zetu. So I figured the glasses really didn't have much to do with reading. That was one thing. And also we have a bad comes from Williamsburg. She's not but she comes from and it's not a it's you see the way they go. You see the way the old ones at least go in Williamsburg. It's a whole turban. So she asked about the the question was if she could wear a turban and Deb said no it has to be a shel. >> Yeah. >> And then so I asked if he can cover it. >> Cover the shait. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> You see some people it's called the pill box that a lot of wear them don't just wear. Most of them they wear the >> something on top of the shaitan. Yeah, it's called a pill box head. So, um I asked the about that said you can't wear that because nobody's going to imagine that you're covering the cover. >> Mhm. >> So, what are they going to assume? They're going to assume that that little hat, the little to put on top of the sh that's the hair covering because nobody think you're covering the cover. And then the said, what's going to be they'll be sitting some the lady will be sitting sometime in the gathering that people aren't covering the hair and she is but she's real self-conscious. She's liable to take it off. Sh is not take off. >> That that's explaining why a turban or is not good. >> Yeah. So says she can't not only can't wear a turban but but you have to you can't even cover it. And to this day, my wife only covers her shel if it's mish freezing like blizzard weather out. Then she'll put on, you know, a hat of some kind or something. But otherwise she doesn't work because David told he shouldn't cover the >> one of the integral components of being aim and whether it's orim these days give us an opportunity to connect with our to connect with each other and be better. What is the story behind each of these days? How did the rabbi commemorate and celebrate these days? And most importantly, what are the lessons, the takeaways, and the action items needed for each of these days? All of this and much much more are answered in the new set recently published by Dher. Our days is a journey through the Kabad calendar in story, meaning practice with over 700 beautiful glossy pages with elevated content, beautiful, beautiful photographs. You, your family and friends will enjoy and live with each. This book is a must for every labamature home, for every schul, for every school. It is a perfect gift item. This will not collect dust. It will be used day after day, month after month, year after year. You can have the set. Go to.org/ org/our days. Order your set today and start living with. Yeah, I've seen I've seen that in other places that the Reb told people the same thing that um there's a problem with wearing a cover on the also. Yeah. Later on, but we see we have to put things in perspective. years ago. I don't know when the first volumes of Kadis came out, but um who got the letter? The person who got it and maybe showed it some of his buddies, but the didn't know what letters I was writing, at least not me. [snorts] Later on, we had a you know to see some of the letters. So, you're able to see, oh, I asked that. I was wondering about that. It was all there. But you weren't trying to recreate the wheels. Just you didn't know the wheel was there. You didn't know that I've ever discussed the subject. >> Right. So when your wife is asking about the shait cuz she wasn't sure. >> Yeah. >> I mean you knew something. That's why she asked. You know that probably. >> Yeah. We knew that in the Bible say but she didn't she was going to lift open possibly about a turban. >> Mhm. >> And then on the when said no as I said about covering it and wasn't a favor of that either. And then the gave also I'm imagining. >> Yeah. >> And when when you had and when you were by yourself >> then so was a separate basically. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. So you got married in here in Crown Heights. >> Nope. The last to be in Borak. >> What do you mean? when Debb spoke to about making in Crown Heights. So there were three one person wrote in. It's not important who it is by name. One person wrote in that he has a hall already. And he spoke to the caterer. The caterer doesn't want to come to Crown Heights. So he asked what to do. So Deb told me he can't change a terrible thing. Can't break a contract. Then I wrote in and I told Debb that I spoke to the caterer and he said if they'll let him in in Crown Heights we'll be glad to come and they I would let him in but I told about some other difficulty we had and they said no shouldn't change from anything of you any of your plans. So I came out we would list one to be in Crown Heights out of Crown Heights. >> So the Reb didn't want to change an existing plan but it was >> right. So you had the the last uh >> the last wedding that could have been in Kit that was in Bar Park right I think people that got married later takit in all young Israel different places >> and after your you asked the Reb about about what you should do. >> Nope. >> So what happened? >> Nothing. >> Like he knew you're going to be a cipher. De knew I can't. Uh, >> but you you knew you knew that. >> Yeah, I was doing it already. >> You're ready to say it before. >> So that was the plan the whole time >> and I [snorts] spent uh the first period of time after our so uh used to work in the morning and the afternoon I used to learn with Rabbi Zurkin for six hours. We learned five hours gum and one hour. That's what you did every day. >> Yeah. Actually, just before I got married, I already started that sed and uh he gave him he couldn't understand how person can the big mishbuck he's going to sit and learn with you six hours a day. He didn't understand that logistically [clears throat] but he came home from sheer and he he was learning anyway. So he started learning. >> So when did he do the safris in between >> whoever zerkin? Mhm. >> at night and in the market. It wasn't very busy chicken markets. He used Pacific Street. It was here just on the outskirts of Grand Heights. >> Huh. Yeah. >> That's where people did capotus. Huh. >> Yeah. So, uh, he used to ride over there and he used to ride night successfully with me. >> So then um and then subsequently you had with your with your family, >> your wife. with your wife. >> Yeah. >> After after your wedding. What happened? But she's the more sticker one than me. She just did one. She's just there for children. Wouldn't have children. Weren't blessed with the first child till we married six years. So she just asked for children. She didn't me I came in all kinds of dean him and hug him and all kinds of >> What do you mean? Like what? What were you asking? What were you asking? >> I asked things about >> Did I have answered you? >> Huh? >> Did I answer you? >> Some things yes. And then one year he said and then I knew okay that's you know >> and she was asking for braha for children. >> Yeah. >> And what did I give? >> Yeah. And but it seems we weren't to add Kaye at the time because didn't happen. And then one year she went in and she told Deb that I wanted to tell me we're going to have children instead of just >> instead of just >> Yeah. She said that and that's it. Baby was born. [clears throat] >> Did the Reb respond to that? Huh. Did >> respond? >> Yeah. I don't remember exactly how that was, but yeah, >> Debb agreed to that to her request. And that year you had children. >> Yeah. >> And how many children do you have? >> Can six. >> Six children. >> Uhhuh. Um, so I know also I know at a certain point you somehow had a kasher with the rabbit. So how did that start? As I said, we got married in Shin in. And then when it came the first, which was already of course app. So I saw an advertisement about a kit for making candles on yourself by yourself. Do it yourself candle kit. And I thought that sounded pretty good. Let me get it. I got and I said, you know, let me make the shamus candles because I didn't really believe they were pure pure beeswax anyway. So, let me see if I could make it. And I did. They're beautiful long tapered candles and they looked so nice. I said, "No, let me make a set for the too." So, I made another set, packed them up, went to the house, knocked on the door. >> You never spoke to the before? >> No. And then uh I heard a very sweet voice asking though who's there. So I said uh Clapman Clapman Clapman. >> Yeah. Somebody clap. I didn't know what to say. It's me, you know. So Davidson opened the door and I explained to that uh us in the house we made candles and we'd like clever sat here. I don't think I said reba like said here. So she discussed first of all it was very icy and she wanted she was concerned about how I made the trip to go down the whole driveway. I don't know if you have about the house the whole driveway all the way to the back and the steps and to get to the door. It was like a long J. So uh she discussed that with me about the difficulty coming through that all that to get here. And then uh she complimented the candles and thanked me and then she wanted me to repeat my name. So you say what was your name again? So she said in whose house did he make such gorgeous candles? So I took it that she wanted to read. So I said bio clapman but the way she put it to I should repeat my name was very alled very refined. It wasn't it who are you? She put it in such a way that that's so beautiful. In whose house they make these beautiful candles and then we started going every year. I should say I went every year. >> So every year that became a thing. You would knock on on the door. >> Yeah. >> And give the rabbits and candles. >> Yeah. >> And then one year I asked could we bring the children. This is skipping a whole bunch of years. >> So you started this right away. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So many years later you have kids. >> So I asked Davidson if we could bring if I could bring the children when we come. >> Mhm. >> So she said yes. And but the only thing is I need some time to be able to make a party. I have to go shopping. That's what she says. I have to go shopping. So I asked her what kind of shopping we have to go shopping for. I have to make a party. >> So you called her. >> No. Yeah. >> You called her before? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And I she said she she you can come anytime you want. I just need time to go shopping. And he said, "Shopping for what?" And she'll make a party. A party. What are you having to make a party for? I said the visit is plenty. >> Mhm. >> So she told me you should know that whenever you have children over you have to make a party. >> It became so ingrained in us that later on to have grandchildren. So sometimes you have to differentiate between say za who zed which bubba is it? So they used to call us z and bi nash because we became famous with had a nash closet as big as a candy store. Ever since said whenever you have children over you have then so we brought the children over and then that became a you know a tradition every year to come with the kids. >> So what would happen when you would come with the children? >> Each year was something else. One particularly I told the first time I told the children that if Davidson passes around the candy district I figure might happen. So you can only take one candy and she'll pass it around again, one candy as many times as she just one candy at a time. So Edson took out a candy dish and she handed to my oldest daughter and then and then each one took one candy and started again. Came to my youngest daughter who was there at the time and she took a candy and then she said, "That's not what sometimes you have candy." She stuck it in hand and she already knew how to take candy. But after she took it, she realized it wasn't nice. So she started to give it back. So Debson was taking and then putting in my oldest daughter's pocket. >> So took it back from her all the candies, >> one candy at a time, whatever it was, and then put in the pocket of my oldest daughter. So So you know the game round robin is. So it's like round robin. This one's passing and taking and giving. And then they wound up in my daughter's pocket. So they went when they went home, they had candy already. Um, another year before Khan, I brought home a very beautiful heavy big block wooden drrele. Mom was a chunk of wood. It was a beautiful big please with beautiful painted letters on it. So my son grabbed it and said, "We go to them and said we're going to give this stuff for a gift." So they polished it up and they boxed it and they wrapped it with bows and it really looked beautiful. Came to the house and asked and told Evson to have a gift for her. So she took the gift, thanked them and she wanted know you want me to open it an hour later and they all jumped now. So she opened up and started playing Drrele and you can almost picture the scene or it's hard to picture the scene. Here's a lady sitting very regally and bunch of kids laying over the table and they're playing drrele together and every time she spun the drrele she got a gimbal and after a bunch of gimbals she >> This is before Kaneka though, right? >> A day or two before [clears throat] >> and um >> so every time she's getting a gimbal. >> Yeah. and she said smiled, looked up and she smiled and said, "I'm good at this." So the the picture was awesome. The scene was awesome. A lady said, "Look, mom was like a bubby or an elder bubb sitting and playing with our grandchildren." Drrele, they're all laying over the table and somehow when they went, they they weren't like tin soldiers, you know. They snuggled up to it. Another year we came and uh there was a fearsome dog in the in the backyard and the next door neighbor towards New York Avenue side and uh that dog was >> b a dog in the in the >> adjacent house to the >> the neighbors. >> Yeah. On the on the New York Avenue side, not the Brooklyn Avenue side. Mhm. >> And when the kids came to the back, that dog was like a bear. A poor soul. Literally like a head. Kids >> in general when people would come to the Debb's house, they would always go to the back. That's what it sounds like. >> I don't know. We came to the back. >> And uh cuz my brother used to deliver to them. So he went from the back. So we went to the back also. >> And um >> the brother delivered what? >> He used to deliver for bread, meat. >> Mhm. So, uh, the kids were screaming frantically. Debson opened the door. She didn't have to say who's there. She just opened the door. The kids were running in. It was very interesting when she closed the door. She calmed each child down. She didn't make nothing, you know. Don't worry about it. No. She calmed each child down. And then she told them that I don't like the dog either, but they told me that it should be there for security reasons. So, but I don't like it. And then she explained what she doesn't like. She said because the people who come to visit me are scared because of the dog and it bothers me. They're coming to visit me and my guests uh you know are scared. So it was a big muscle that her your pain was her pain. She has surgery everything will be okay. you know, you have to feel for them. And she showed that what and what um it's not a regular thing what you did to just decide to give something to the rabbit for the rabbit to use and then then have then your kids coming and having this whole relationship with the rabbits and most people in Crown Heights didn't do that. So what what got >> I wanted to be sarcastic. I would say I didn't take a survey. But if anybody else did it, they have no idea. >> So you don't know why you did it. You just did it. >> Yeah. [snorts] I mean, we know that the Dr. Feldman all his daughter was close to them. But that was a different relation. She was already a colum. She was, you know, she was in the chapter life looking for already. They were talking about wedding gowns, colors, schemes. It was a different kind of thing. a bunch of kids come playing drreidle with her. I don't >> So the other people that I heard of people having a relationship with her, it the circumstance was different. And my daughter was my oldest daughter was in a class with uh Schmutman's daughter and uh at the end of that school year they had the elementary has a yearbook, not the high school. So uh they were the girls were encouraged to write articles and they said that anybody who writes anything about the depersonson they'll put their article first. >> This is after >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> So the butman young lady wrote smiling eyes and shiny eyes. You know my daughter was writing about making birthday parties. You know she >> she had other stuff to tell you. We had also one year besides Khan candles, my daughter, I don't remember how old she was at the time, she asked if she could make Shabas candles. >> She asked at Abbottson if she could make shab went for Kaneka, gave Kaneka, she can make Shabas candles for you all. So she may I so that was already a big thing. Khan comes once a year. Now you're taking on an obligation for every week. It's a whole different set of circumstances. You know, things come up, you go away. So my daughter said, "I'd like to make the candles." So Debson asked her, "But will you be able to do the jobs for Shabas that you have and still make candles for me?" So she said, "Yes." But Deb wasn't going to just take the word of a little girl on that. So she turned to my wife and said, "What do you say?" So my wife told Evson, "If she says she can do it, she's responsible enough, she'll be able to do both the candles." And said, "Everson, okay, thank you very much." and she said okay but I'd like to dwell a moment on the job part of it said said if you'll still be able to do the jobs that you have for Shabas so was saying you're supposed to have a job for Shabas what does that mean you have a job for Shabas you come into a house that looks like a proper home set for Shabas you're going to see a table you're going to see kala on the table you're going to see napkins and silverware and glasses and gloves wine of grape juice for kdish that's but how did it all come about did it come about when the husband came home from shul did it happen before they went did it happen with screaming yelling and the chaos or did it come in everybody has a job now I know I I washed the floors I polished the silver I set the table everybody has a job two things happen the first thing is that it comes in very orderly and the second everybody can come to the table and celebrate shabas I contributed this or that I know because we set the table Thursday night so when it comes Friday the house has already a taste of shabas to it but even if you don't do Thursday night it should be sometime with a schedule that everything should happen very cohesively and come in like a you know like a fine watch movement not just chaotically until it finally happens I think that's what she meant you have to have a job and the job you can't just give away you make candles for me you have a job that's very important you have to stick to it >> yeah so she was she was teaching a lesson also. >> Yeah. >> And then your daughter would deliver them every >> every Friday. Yeah. >> And she would speak to the rabbits every time. >> She just deliver them. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> She asked once about the setting up the Debbitson said yes. Didn't work out. But then she read she was growing up and Deb was in the library. bunch of buckhams setting up the house sweeping a vacuum whatever they were doing have a girl come in and ready it came a point that it wouldn't have been I think anyway it wouldn't have been appropriate if she started when she was eight probably would have continued but just just to make them in the living room >> and the rabbit and the rabbi used these candles >> yeah I'll tell you it happened first of all somebody who was close in bas told me that it's not possible that you do something on continuous basis and them not use and just let it happen. The candle, she said she would use it. As a matter of fact, she had to make sure that it's not going to interfere with something else. So, if she wasn't going to use them, she could have just said, "No, thank you." But it happened one year. Rabbi Grona came over to me and told me that I should make the Kaneka candles shorter or smaller. So, I made another one smaller and I showed it to him. He said, "Make it smaller." I didn't know how small to make it. So I asked him, he said, "Dad, I never saw them in. I have no idea. Just make them smaller." Finally, from a beautiful long tape, it came out like a piece of pencil, a little thing. So he said, "Oh, that looks good." When I made the candles that I made that that type of candle, that size. And when I went to Edbertson's house, I gave were packed up and there was a separate one that was loose. I wanted to show them. >> You wanted to show what the original looked like. I wanted to show the one she's getting this year in the baggage. >> Mhm. >> And she smiled and she really liked it. After Khanek, I went over to Rabbi Groner. First, you have to do what you're supposed to do. So, I didn't ask any questions. After Kaneka, I went over and said, "How did you know 77 was never part of this whole equation? And it was only the president's street and you know had >> to have the growner know to tell you for the house the >> so he told me he said the debate told me to tell you that since Clapton makes the candles anyway he should make them smaller so my wife doesn't have to cut them down like this used to have to cut them in so he was trying to save the debbit work said he's making them let him make so from there I took a lesson that a good husband always tries to find a way to make the workload later light later for his wife >> later >> yeah including Deb had a what she just just to sit there cut them and throw them. Let him make them you know the papersize. So he was looking to cut down the workload on the rabbit. >> Beautiful. It's amazing. Were there other things that you brought to the rabbit to the rabbi? I mean once you start doing this maybe there's more things. >> Yeah. I don't think there's no limits. >> No. Okay. So that's here in everything. I just want to point out all these things were very good and it was a scuss that that Lebbertson gave us but they they managed life guns fine before we came into that picture and ultimately although I have to say that you know I I I can't express in any way with words or with emotions all it meant to us and everything but the real only thing that a person can give the is it settled that he learns something extra or he doesn't mit or he start doing something he didn't even know that he was supposed to do that's the real gift of and ultimately have to say filtering over to as well everything else is very nice it's for you but the bottom line is that the has is when he does an Indian m you make a candle for me very But what can you really give me that's for me is only u you know that you're doing something in the better than you did before. As a matter of fact, I don't want to sidetrack too much, but Rabbi Tanbalam [clears throat] also Mendel Tenb was the principal of Babach Shiva. He used to go to South America in the summer collecting money for Babach Shiva. And whichever country it was, it was a greed used to give him a lot of money. And one year when he came, so the Gri told him, I found the bea kdish cup that's so beautiful. It had to been made for the sober doesn't need it. If he has one, he if he needs it, he has it already. He doesn't like gifts. I'm going to increase my donation to labavage that you shouldn't think that I'm instead of money to yes I'm buying this silver kittish club and he told he told the man no don't so the guy didn't do it but at the end he felt that he deserves at least an honorable mention so they came back to crown heights and he was giving a report to that he told him by the way this and this person he gave money and a bigger donation and he wanted to buy you a kittish cup but I talked him out of it thanked him for talking him out of And then the Reb told him the only gift I accept is the gift of Jewish books. But don't buy the s don't buy the book and send it to me. You buy the book, you learn it. And that learning should lead to doing something ma better like we said either to do something you didn't know about before or it's something you do now you'll do it in a more enhanced way. And you send me a note that you do it. That note that's my gift. You don't even have to send the book in. Send a note. So a person has to take everything in context. The only thing we can really and it went goes for now also the only real thing you give to the is that you do something better than you did yesterday or andor you're encouraging other people to also do better. But uh getting back to the what I saw a jar of honey. It was a square mason jar but it looked so beautiful. It was filled with honey with a big comb. you know, the combs, the wax inside it. It was so beautiful. I said, "This is for the I bought it and I sent it in and then the next the next year we put in with a reman with a pomegran." And it started growing every year. And then after we bought the 770, but by that not ready was on a silver tray with fake green grass on it to offset the beauty of the fruits. You had maybe 20 fruit used to go shopping for two days to find the unique fruits of and then there was a crystal thing holding the carrot slivers and all kinds of things and everything and then they used to give back all the kale after after >> they would give you back to Caleb. >> Yeah. So we we gave that and then my daughter gave other things and to the rabbiton. >> Yeah. She used to give there was a plastic tree that she saw. >> Mhm. >> And the points of the branches were very sharp and you you put on different fruits like dates or figs or whatever. And so she bought that thing and she put on all the different kinds of fruits and put gum gumdrops, colored gumdrops to give it some color. And then the tray that was the base of the tree, she put bucks in. So that they had they used that also. One year they came one year was on was on Shabas and it went to the T was on the table by the >> Oh, so you're not talking. >> No, that that's two things. Yeah. >> So you give things we noticed them the whole time. >> But it's interesting that they sent the Kim back. >> Yeah. >> Always like that. >> Yeah. when she since she was a little girl, so from time to time when she'd send in candles, she would also send in a bud. Budwaz is a small vase that holds only one flower. >> Mhm. >> So on special occasions like a birthday before yand she used to send a bud also a buzz ab her birthday. >> Her birthday she was. >> Yeah. So uh once she went into Rabbi Klein and she said, "Rabbi Klein, I sent in a flower. Can I get the vase back?" She came back a few minutes later with her like they give today like for for the says Rabbi Klein I gave a little what's the difference from the I didn't see a little one what's the difference is also from >> and using the same cloud but if every year they're taking it and sending back the the dishes that must mean that they're using it. >> Yeah. I mean, well, the candles, we know cuz Debb intervened, >> right? >> And the Sabbath candles she said. And then one year I didn't send honey in time. It was kind of late in the season and I called up if I can bring. So she said quite honestly said I bought it already. Said but if you bring a little bit that's the honey I'll use. >> So she said explicitly that she would use it. >> Right. Right. And after you would bring candles for for the also. >> Yeah. >> For Kaneka. >> Yeah. >> Not for Shabas. >> Yeah. Shabas also and for Khan just gave it to they would make a you know >> and for Shabas. So every week you providing the Reb with with candles because Reb himself. Matter of fact, unfortunately, when Dev was in a difficult physical uh condition, she went once with a candles and a bud vase with a flower in it and a note. It was her birthday that week. So, Rabbi Grona told her, "The flower I could put on Deb's desk and the candles with the letter I can't help you." It seems that that must have been a really >> after that you're talking about. >> Yeah. It must have been a really difficult time. He said I the flower I could put on Deb's desk and the candles the I can't do anything to you. So she said I'm leaving it anyway. He called her up during the week and he said that uh however he communicated with Debb and Debb gave a bra. It seems that the maths have improved. He called back and he said it >> among is brought to you by we live in a chaotic world. A world where for usim is a we do not have the ability to hear and see the on a daily basis. Yet we know that theb is very much with us and is alive and thriving more than ever before. One needs to only tap into it. provides you and your family with the tools necessary to tap into all of this. 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You can be part of through your financial support as well through visiting our website.org or through contacting us to setting up a meeting. Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of the podcast. And then there was um was there ever like um a time that through the all these interactions with the with the Rabbitson that you saw like uh she never she never spoke about um like something happening 770 or anything like that? >> No, not to me. I mean other people had different relationships with her. Rabbit Khan when Rabiel's wife when you know spoke to her they weren't speaking about kids playing drreel >> right >> or making candles you know it was on a different dependence who you know depends who she was speaking to me she didn't discuss and the word reba came out to the best only one single time in all the years >> what was that >> I was very careful never to mention reb because I didn't want it to be that I'm trying to find out something or and she's just like God forbid to think like a like a conduit to be able to get there. >> There's like you not for me to explain but it wasn't a roundabout way to get to the Reba. As a matter of fact, she said once would you like to come? I'm just picking numbers and say 4:30 and I said whenever it's most convenient. 5:30 whenever it's most convenient. Do you want to come? My husband is home. I said no. She offered >> Yeah. I never heard her offering anybody else to offer to come in Debb's home and but anyway, she asked you want to come my husband's home. I said no. >> Maybe she wanted you to come with the kids. In a very tangible way, Deb had accessibility like you can't imagine >> coming coming out three times a day spending Shabas the whole Shabbas stay with us and Fab at night till late late night not as maybe late is in the earliest but still till quite late at night and everything and now he has to come home after all that and see Clapman in the house 7 why all the time at 770 Uh I think your son told me a story about when the came back when the came back >> she had tavis was the that was the potential but the still w back it >> right >> so actually came back unfortunately such a long slept and basically a year later. >> Yeah. Almost. And they wanted that we got a call in the morning from Basifa that day. Basically slave that the school only half a day. And they wanted the girls should be able to be 77 that moment that everyone was waiting for with tears and heartbreak and everything finally coming to fruition. They wanted the girls to be able to be there to see it. So we got a chain called school here for a day. My daughter had an appointment time to go to Debbitson that day. later in the day. >> This is for Kaneka. >> This because her bas was soon before >> she was going in honor of her bas. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So I called the Ebson. I said if an earlier time is convenient since she has no school only half a day she can come earlier. And very sternly the why only half a day. And there was no way that I was going to get this 770 business involved. It was not a very pleasant time and I I just didn't want to discuss that. So I just said that was the text that was the message of the chenle and uh that was it about 45 minutes later said we got another chinkle school all day and we laugh in our house what happened now 45 minutes we got a chle school all day craman speaks to once in a while only half a day 45 getle all day >> right >> exactly what happened leave one's imagination >> right then famously the baka that were there was not happy >> infamously Yeah, >> infamously >> um >> and by the way Deb said something that years before I don't remember how to phrase it exactly how Deb phrase it deba made a comment once said buckham's standing outside they should be ready s and they're waiting to see my car when I'm coming 770 and as soon as they turn out they run in 7 they run in anyway you s should be learning >> so this idea of just wasting time was never deb's uh pleasure anyway. So what they're sitting outside waiting as soon as they're kind of running out anyway, >> right? >> So Deb didn't appreciate everybody standing around and basically if there was I mean this is what I heard. I have to verify that they they wanted to make some type of ceremony of the coming back and the Reb rejected that. >> But I guess what you're saying >> you you would know more about those things than me. >> Yeah. But I'm saying that that you called the Rabbitson and then the Rebson said, "Why is it only half a day?" And then >> and then very soon after you got another robocall. Yeah. It's very interesting. >> Now she didn't even wind up going on basically all together. >> You were just your daughter. >> Yeah. V. So Debbson said, "You'll come and hey kiss your slave and you'll stay with me until it turns night and you'll become basitsu together with me [clears throat] and that's what happened. She went >> but then she went herself. I didn't go." >> She went herself. Not >> with me. >> Not with your wife either. know herself and it seems to me that I was speaking to beans used to be in the house a lot that he made some kind of comment and that I thought that you know this should be just my daughter. My daughter said that the Debson called the night before and spoke to her and told her that since she'll be leaving at night, you'll come by day, but since you'll be leaving at night, she should have somebody to come to pick you up. >> Yeah, was concerned about the >> she shouldn't go >> by herself. Then she asked how I told you she asked how she celebrate her bas. >> Mhm. >> And she said that is your father waiting outside. So she said yes. Okay. So we we won't make it so long. So she said she's not going to ask any questions. Debit how are you throwing your basmu? >> The rabbiton asked >> my daughter how are you celebrating your basits? >> Okay. So she said they were having my class over and a few of the closest relatives and she said the debson said that's what she did >> made the the family how many friends did she have >> they didn't make a big uh a big a big ceremony out of it >> no but was a you know respectful and dignified but was on a smaller scale. >> Mhm. Was was there any interaction with the rabbit about uh regarding like your your work with the Safas and anything like that? >> No. I I say in the house that the words could, would have, should have equals you need a lesson >> because the outcome of everything is of Hashem. But looking back, I I don't understand how I never asked if I should do my safer program for her. have a whole like a whole show and >> Oh, for her. >> Yeah. Wasn't there something about a book? >> Oh, the book. So, is there a place in Phil called the Hebrew Publication Society and they wanted to produce a book that shows how we make a safe potato, the materials we used, how it's written, all those kind of good things. and we became the focus point. Rab I didn't know if I should do it or not. Rabbi Khadakov told me to do it. So we accepted it and uh I had editorial rights to make sure that it's everything is written properly but nonetheless he said to do it and um when we came they came to introduce themselves was a husband and wife. uh he was the uh the text writer and she was the photographer and we went to they came many many the book isn't a very big book but when it was very very many times they came and uh when the book finally was completed they sent us a few copies my daughter took one said she's going to send it into the she's going to bring it to theson I don't know if I sent one to them or not I don't remember but at any rate called the next day I answered the phone and she wanted to know why Mim just dropped the book on me. Why didn't she come in? So I told her, "I don't know." Meanwhile, she told me she went through the book and she told me that when she was a little girl in labage, listen to his talking. She is Labavage >> and said that she was friends with a girl whose father was Mo deer and uh he used to do all the things that you're showing in the book. And when she used to go, "No, kids, if one day you play in my house, I play in your house." I go, "So when she used to go to that girl's house to play, she used to like to watch the father and she used to watch the way he did all those things that that are described." And so she's so happy to see that it's still being done here in America. Then she got on the phone with my daughter and my daughter said, 'I know a book like this takes many visits and each time they ask you questions, each time you have to make your hair and get all set and everything and was it so hard and difficult each time over and over again and I saw it was amazing. Here she's talking to me about all these kind of wonderful things, making cl and ink and of the parchment and ink and everything. And here Mley is talking about that girl, you know, making up a hair with nice bows and stuff. And yet she was able to deal with both. >> She related to every person. >> Yeah. >> And that level their interests also to the she's speaking about the saf you. >> Very interesting. And it's interesting that you reminded her something that you did remind her about about her youth on lab. That's why you >> Yeah. Well, nothing happened. Then I saw a describes about making the that's customary to light and the shabas between and uh at the time of the third Reb it was a whole honor to participate making that candle usually in a glass I guess and making the wick and melting the wax all the steps it took >> and it was a very big honor to have any part whatsoever. So I told the rebbit and I saw from your father >> and I described I didn't want to say I just said I saw >> you didn't say who it's from. >> I didn't know how to say your father would fe it was an awkward >> so I just said that describes it. >> What language did you speak to her in >> Yiddish? with my children and my wife, she spoke in English and with me for the most part she spoke in uh in Yiddish but certain things were highlighted and that she said in English. So um I told I saw about making this candle and the implication was if you want to do it it's easy to arrange. >> You make candles. >> Yeah. So she told me that she remembers when she was a little girl in the barage. This is the second time she used that. She remembers I don't remember she said she remembers seeing it or hearing that they were discussing how it was done in yesterday or from from that time but nonetheless she said but we don't do it now. So >> she said we don't light it or we don't have a whole lot we don't do it making it >> but they light it spoke about it and discuss with him she likes it. Said >> we don't do this whole ceremony. Yeah. I try not to be intrusive into the personal mhogim or hogus. >> Right. But she did ask you to make other candles. >> Yeah. Once when I was there, she I didn't meet her that time. I'll tell you about that. Debit Deborah called up one night and asked said he wanted to come home early. So she excused herself through whoever was in the house at the time and she couldn't meet with us. She was upstairs. >> You were scheduled to come with the family. >> Yeah. And some the last minute Deborah called and she couldn't meet with us. >> Mhm. But he showed me that whoever answered the door, >> a long candle that was only a piece of it or maybe maybe 15 inches long that was only part and she wants to know if I can make such a candle. So I took that piece >> like for yard. >> Yeah. >> Was it around the yard? No, there's more infan time, but she was, you know, she wanted to have a stack of them. She told me that she used to get them in a certain place. They don't have them anymore. They're not making them. They don't carry them. So, she wanted stuff making it. And she said, she was very disappointed in herself that look like that's not a nice thing to do, but she was stuck. And then she wondered, well, but the kind of health she didn't want the kids to be involved in that said, no, they're not they're not. And uh we made them. >> This is all through this whoever it was. >> No, that was already directed with her. >> Oh, so after you said you could do it, you spoke, >> but he said you have to. She said you have to give her a bill. >> Mhm. >> Now I really didn't want to take money. But I also didn't want to lose the >> she's asking you to do something. So she wants to pay for it. >> Yeah. You can't do for basic. As a matter of fact, years later, she told me she has doesn't understand how this whole thing happened with the look that they don't pay for it. Like she's like she told you that? Yeah. I got >> How did this happen? >> Yeah. So, I didn't want to lose out on this list of making those other lift. So, I had to give a price. >> Mhm. >> Then she called and told me a business bill. When I said a bill, I mean to imply a business bill. So now to differentiate what is a bill and a business bill. >> What you sent a bill or you just told? >> She told me that. Oh, later on I had to put in a bill when I finished the candles. So, she told me it has to be a business bill. >> So, I thought to myself, what is it a bill and a business bill? A bill? I put in a dollar. It's a business is a bill, >> right? If what >> if I charge her a dollar, it's a bill, you know, marked down on a paper, >> but it's not a business bill. You can't get candle like that for a dollar. >> So, I figured 350 sounds somewhat reasonable. Had no idea what they cost when she bought them in the store. 350. So pay three charge 350 again because I I didn't want I was afraid that if I say nothing and then and very emphatically I'm afraid she's going to try to find another source. And [snorts] so we made and uh the end of that story was that she called up after the first one was used and she told me it burnt beautifully all the way down to the end. The wax didn't spritz out and it didn't drip wildly. It was very beautiful. It seems that the next time wasn't such good luck though because she called up and she said that it was spritzing uh if you get and she said maybe there was w water in the wax. She knew how to make candles cuz we discussed that before. >> She know what >> she knew how to make candles cuz that was in a different conversation. So >> conversation >> what? >> No, you didn't. You didn't tell me. >> Yeah, she wanted to know about the if you make other candles for other people also then she has to make them in a mold or do you hand dip them? >> She knew how to make them. >> Yeah. So when it spritzes there's water in the wax. She said maybe there was water that got in the wax because it was sp you know like spitting the the wax and then so I said I'm going to make a recall and I took them back and then I started giving it but I couldn't wait I made let's say nine but I couldn't make nine gifts she needed so I made a few whatever it was and I gave it to her and uh then we came Khaneka so we're standing you know by her Kaneka So she held out an envelope to me so I can't take any money cuz you have credit. Notice she paid for let's say nine and now I owe another three. Let's say you have credit. So she took the envelope and she passed over to where my wife was standing. So my wife said I have nothing to do with candles. I don't know this whole business between you. Said she doesn't know anything about it. And the meanwhile Debson is holding the envelope. So my wife asked Deb said, "Is this Kaneka guilt?" She said, "Yeah, it's Kaneka guilt. We just assumed it was, you know, for the lift." She said, "No, it's Kaneka guilt." So all kind of guilt we take. And you know, she gave my wife took the envelope and we got home. There was a $5 bill for each child. >> So it's always the meanwhile, I'll just mention something. And that visit on the way home my wife asked the children are you disappointed that you didn't see the rebbitson that visit when she was it was canled >> because when the person opened the door he said you should come in help yourself she made a whole drreidles and candies and stuff and stay as long as you want but she's sorry she can't meet you in person >> so the is home >> and you guys are dang downstairs. They're upstairs. We're downstairs. >> Okay. >> And u my wife asked the children, "Are you disappointed he didn't see Debson?" >> So my daughter said, my daughter answered, "My wife, it's better they should be together one minute earlier than we should come in to speak." >> So the next day I called up Davidson to thank her in the name of the children for the drreidles and the candies. And so she starts like to apologize to me and said my husband I didn't want to hear such a thing. So I told her that since you tell me this I'd like to share something with you. I said on our way home my wife asked the children how did you like the visit? I wouldn't dare put it disappointed. I just said my the my wife asked the children how they like the visit. And my daughter said it's better I read it exactly what my daughter said. said it's better they should be together one minute earlier then we should come in to speak and old you know said >> which daughter is this like the oldest the youngest and what which what name is you know what's her name and how old is she and what class is she in and they answered those four questions then she said what friend she can come whenever she wants that was like sealed those two had a special relationship after That was >> your oldest daughter and that daughter. >> My oldest. No, that was my oldest daughter. >> Oh, uhuh. Those two mean the daughter in the rabbiton. >> Yeah. She said that. Anyway, I was speaking to him. He they were really the notedu from England. They were very close by. They used to come in get royal dining service and and he told me once that's his favorite Rebbitson story. And I asked him once. He said, "Do you listen to what happened?" He said Debbson did the same thing. She was telling Debbson, my daughter was saying that Debbson had a bigger call that her husband was come. Deborah was coming home and she did the same thing. She saw that there's a bigger need than her personal needs of having a husband like you know every husband you know every family should be that wife has a husband that you know the part of the family and here she's making deb she knows it's she's like sharing the debate to Cla and everything. She did the same thing for something bigger than her. She said, "Hey, this little girl tapped into that idea and understanding that there's something bigger than you." >> So those two had their own uh >> Yeah. You said already that she came for >> Yeah. Then once she came with me just us two, my daughter and I >> the same daughter. >> Yeah. And before we left, Davidson asked, "Do you like the candy I gave you?" Like, "Okay." So Deon said, "Miriam, next time you come, call me before you come and I'll try to get the candy you like." So I saw from there, it's not enough just to make somebody happy. You have to make it that they should really be happy. The candy was good, but there's said it was only okay. And she wantson wanted to make it that it should be, you know, very good by her. I read a story that um you wrote something into the Reb like a sto like a a story that you witnessed with the I read it on on a WhatsApp this year. Is that a true story? >> Yeah, maybe you could share that. My parents always used an Israeli and uh they only we only got a for my zade to my father yet only after you're married the the children use the same ess the one for the family you got married you got your own the year we got married that was me the first of the first not only the first essay in my life that I was ever buying an for myself So uh my father used there but I wanted from Italy like the tradition in Kabad is so um somebody told me you should go to a certain person and you should buy by him. I came up to his house, a big family, a small apartment and mattresses behind the the couches and the table with a swum on it. They all look God, they look like green pickles. I wasn't used to seeing such a but here it's in the person's house. They didn't know how to walk out. Finally, Rabbi Gross, Rebel Gross, he was very close with Aby's mother and he came in to buy. He gave a quick look with his eyes, grabbed one. How much is he? Paid him and he left. When he left, I forget I can get out on his coattails, came out of his house and he told me the is not a mud is not a very fine specimen of specimen of anig. But my hed my beauty of observing the mitzvah of sukus is that I help a Jew have panos a livelihood in a respectable way. It's not the actual es itself. It's the holiday. The holiday is an expensive one. This person needs panosa. He's doing this to make an income. I have to try to help him. That's that's my that's the beauty of y is not in the fruit itself, but it's in the totality of the whole yiff. I help the Jew have panosa. I think he also told me I didn't take the nicest one in case somebody will be a borderline case. He should have a better selection. And by the way, he that's the he actually used because I saw him using it on sukus. So it wasn't just you know buy it and use something else. Years later he became well Rabbi Gross and I wrote into the I as somebody to write an Israeli person not a lab per se and he wrote it so beautifully. >> You you asked >> somebody to write the story >> to write up the story. >> Yeah. But he just got a half a piece of copy machine paper. It was such a beautiful penmanship and the wording and everything. I could never have copied it over like that. So I just wrote cruises. I addressed it to the Reb. I went to 770. I saw Rabbi Gro says, "Could you have a seat? I want to give you something." Sits down. I hand him a note and he said, "Can you read this?" So he takes it and he opens them. He ends it back. What happened? It's suggested. So I said, "I know it's a gest, but I didn't want you to read it." He read it. He was reading it and smiling. It was like so beautiful the way the one who wrote wrote there's an incident that happened to he didn't even mention any names just generic this is the story between them and uh while Rabbi Gron was reading I asked him do you think I should give it in when he finished reading he became very irate he said all the all the foolish things everybody writes in a beautiful thing this questioning you should give me all the other narr of course have a beautiful thing to share and this your questioning he said of course you should give it in give it in the next day he came over to me and he told me I was there when the reb read it I don't know if they had some kind of signal between them he leaves it open leaves it on top he stands I don't know what's said I was there when read the letter and Debb's smile got bigger and bigger and bigger came to the end was mamish a smile say from ear to ear so much he had from it and then the whatever deba said daddy didn't repeat to me because it wasn't But that's the actual story itself and it's a lesson also something you have to be more sensitive than somebody and just to flash around have a beautiful it's an expensive season. How about your next door neighbor that might be able to be helped or needs help? You have to look out for them too. And the lesson is also that um when you see something positive, your knee-jerk reaction was I have to report this to the Reba. >> Give the Rebas. >> Of course, that took that took more time than it should have. Had another one like that. In regard to what you say, somebody stopped me in the store and had to pay >> in the store. >> Huh? >> Someone stopped you where? in one of the stores on Kingston >> and um he said that he had uh extra cash around. Do I need anything fant you know just sitting here? >> So I told him no but if you want to give out money said somebody who needs >> you gave him the name. >> Yeah. So I think I told Debbie that somebody came over. It's not that they asked can you help me out? Nothing. Somebody just have cash sitting here was going to do over not doing anything anyway. Maybe somebody needs it for now. So the people that are sensitive that how can I help somebody right now? >> You wrote a also. Okay. What didn't we uh what didn't we cover? [snorts] I don't know if it's the proper forum to discuss it. I'd like to mention thing about cy I'd like to mention two or three things that are applicable from this field is applies to people you know to the public and that is unfortunately today people look for the easy way out of things can't say everybody of course but many people it's very difficult to get used to writing with a goose feather but nonetheless that's what you're supposed to do today they write with plastic nibs and the plastic Now the new thing I heard is ceramic ones. They shape it to the to your handwriting once and then it's good for you know very very long time. Deba said you have to write with a goose feather. >> Did I told you? >> No. Deb told Rabbi Zurkin but there are people that they go to somebody and it's done properly but then they give it to be checked by somebody who's using metal pens and rapidigraph pens. They say the incas co that's not the way you're supposed to do it. [snorts] >> It's what is it? What's the mucker that it has to be goose feather? the >> okay >> if you want to branch out from that I went to Feinstein who I used to go to quite often I went to and I asked him about the using those pens he said no you have to use a feather and he even told me he said I know he spoke to me in said but I know that you could make a feather that's adal that's refined enough that he fix even the crowns on the small and the heads of the smallest letters and truzas so he was aware of the problem and he was but nonetheless You can make such a feather when you know you can properly cut such a feather. Then I figured well they people say he's a litist. I went to Picassi who 770 who was the and I asked him about it and he said no you have to use a feather. So of course you'll find people say you could do this you could do this you can do anything but this is the traditional way that you're supposed to do it. And as I say that even somebody was careful to make sure it was written properly. They give it to somebody to check and that guy's messing it up. So you have to be careful who you give your children to to check. Um the shims we discussed already the they have to have gain experience with somebody who who's watching you not just showing you once or twice and going out to you know drift more business [snorts] >> and the other thing is it's coming prevalent now that they seal up the tril like a bank vault which is wrong. The opinions that hold the tril are really not good. >> What do you mean like a bank vault? You know, they glue them up and and then they paint the edge. You can't even tell where the part is open. >> And nonetheless, there mob was on Mount Si. God told them everything and the Torah was written the basics and then the literature that came later discussed all the details of everything and nobody says you sewed the gum with the senus of a kosher animal and that's how you close the film. No glue and no plaster. One person said they use a baby powder mixed with paint and it makes like a mud and they put all kinds of stuff. Your grandfather's stone didn't have baby powder in it, >> right? >> So you have to try to keep to the basics and the best thing is that whenever you buy trusas, you tell the person I'm immediately giving it to another cipher to check. That goes for me also. And [snorts] uh at the time that that other person says they're kosher, then we'll consider it a sale. >> Nice. So make make that a condition. >> Yeah. And uh also it's good if you can arrange that you should stand over the cipher when he's checking it filling the muzzas and you don't go get them done that often that you can't find a mutual time between the two of you to be able to stand over. >> What's the benefit of that? First of all, it's a learning experience especially if you take your children or child or by miss boy. It's a learning experience. And the second thing is, you know, >> there's no monkey business when you're standing there. uh in I was in the holy ta dvening at one point in time and one of the buckham came over to me and told me that he brought his film to one of the establishments on Kingston Avenue and uh told him that I wanted it written any touches any touch-ups you make has to be with a feather not that wasn't the person's usual instrument of work so he said well I'm going to have to charge him more money because it takes longer So he came to me and said what should I do? So I told him you should tell him you'll pay him the more money but you want to stand over him. Why' I say that? If a person uses a feather every day he doesn't need it doesn't take longer and if it does that's just the way he's supposed to do it. So you can't say I mean just put in two partes because you save time that way. has to have certain requirements, but he's not going to risk a $1,000 pair of parases for the sake of making another $10. If he's not used to use a if he's not used to using a feather, he's not going to chance it because you're giving him another few bucks. >> Mhm. >> So, it's showing that that's not what they use. >> So, but tell him, but tell me you want to stand over him, you know, >> and he didn't agree. >> I I didn't hear the end of the story. So you're saying safe for him writes with these pens, not only check. >> Yeah. There was one of the famous ones on Kingston Avenue when his original when he started out his original advertisement said that he used the pitigraph pens but he uses kosher ink. He later on he realized that there's flack towards the ch but the first advertisement said that he uses it. It's a common thing and just idea we for ourselves we don't need a bigger source than the said and the deba said he's not a po he doesn't answer he's not the rabbitical authority to be the last word in that's the could say that we don't say that you say something that's that's it >> and you heard from rabbin that said this >> okay so that's very informative for that I thank you for sharing so much about the rabbin. I'm sure it people will have ho and it will benefit them and the main thing is that we should give theba and the mas that they want to add in our mitzvah and we give the I mean that goes on everybody and like we say when came time for from to go out from Egypt says that led the men out and Miriam led the the ladies out. So should be now mean deb should take us all out of golas and debit the lady debits and the ladies or however the exact procedure will work but it means they should take us out of go into the full go now. >> Amen. Thank you.