Ep. 24: The Rebbe's Attention to Shluchim with Rabbi Yosef Landa

You think the fact that there are I don't know 4,000 5,000 butter kabad around the world and millions and millions millions of Jews who were touched by it happens to be Labavage. Why? Because there's some great organization in the world of Labavich, some master plan, marketing plan that succeeded that. No, there probably are better marketers out there than us and more organized people than us. It's this and we have to realize it the yer of that and that is why labav today not labavichba it says that's that is why we we are who we are and the others are still scratching their heads and wondering how did they do it if you've been enjoying this podcast please like and subscribe so that others can enjoy it as well. In addition, if you've benefited in any way from a monkin podcast and would like to give something back, you can do so today at.org/donate. I'm Yasi Cayman. Welcome to among an ongoing faban about life as aid our vibrant connection with theb and inspired living shaped [music] by the way he teaches us each and every day. This episode is dedicated for good afternoon Rabbi Landa. How are you doing? Okay. Thank you for being here. You [clears throat] don't live here, so thank you for making the trip and uh welcome to Among. >> Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here and uh there are other things over here that attract me as well, but this this alone is worth is worth a trip. >> Okay. Very good. And um so there's a few things that I want to discuss with you that I know about, but I always find it interesting to discuss the things that I that I don't know about. So I've done this before when I when I talk to others. Sometimes if we do a little bit uh chronological um type of thing that uh that that that might be a good way to start. So in your case, I don't know um your background, where where your parents came from, where where you grew up. I I actually don't know. So if I don't know, that's uh I'll be more interested to know. Okay, I'll share that. I actually grew up in Bora Park. Uh my father is at the yeshiva in Shanghai. He joined the yeshiva. He joined Shiva at the outbreak of the war. It's a whole long story that is is not for now. >> So he wasn't in >> he wasn't invaction. That's what it was. He came from >> I'm not following. He was not invit correct. He joined the yeshiva in VNA. >> He uh he had this attraction. It's a whole long story that he was very drawn to and particularly he came from Galatian sad. His father was a sad but he was drawn to and in VNA he was he was he was meidis at the beginning of the war. At the beginning of the war all of the yeshivists went to VNA. So in one city you had all of the yeshivas most of the yeshivists then were were liter some some musiki yeshivas. was actually he was actually in the Pinsky yeshiva and he he thirst for cidus uh and he also organized if you can find it inaded gave a name in all these yeshivas there were a lot of there were literary yeshivas but there were a lot of who ended up over there for all kinds of reasons if they wanted a yeshiva and the hug and everything else went because that wasn't the over there and this bothered him very very much and he organized and all of these is those who are should get together and they should learn whatever it was a whole it's it was a whole operation that he kind of and at end of that process they um they were not very happy Yeshiva he was in Pinsk and they were that happy >> Nardik >> and they weren't happy that that was going on coming out of their yeshiva and he was unhappy with what was you know that that it it didn't allow for learning of and so he asked the about the talking about >> Mhm. And [snorts] uh >> what do you mean he asked if he kept >> asked if he kept he wrote he wrote we have the letter that the writes to him? >> He was in America just arrived in America at that time. Yeah. >> And he said and writes to him that uh don't remember we treasure that that letter because that's when he became became he became aid and the rest is history. We even have the the we have him a letter from him writing to the but the gave him told him that and aroused his heart this he has to learn and he should be mal that in yeshiva's time and that became became his key. So he became that that's that's my father. My father see the fik >> in America. So they came >> he never saw the fab before >> never saw before. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Never saw she before but a lot of letters. >> So they asked and they answered >> um and they my after the war tin they arrived over here. forbidden from Shanghai and um my was in America during the war and everything he lived in Williamsburg but this is before that whole came out so he was here during the war most of his family was wiped out in the Holocaust my uh my mother and a sister and a brother survived they were Awitz and there were barren bells not but galitan uh and after the war you have to rebuild he wanted this was new to him this whole Indian of a of a of aid this wasn't this wasn't known it was a brand of that wasn't kind of familiar to him right >> but he wanted an ad bordis that's what he wanted and so that's what happened my if you want to hear my he lives on Wilson Wilson Street. I was in that house in Williamsburg. So [snorts] my mother when she arrived, she's looking out the window on Wilson Street and how far is that from 770? Not very far. So there are group of labma who walk past the street. So what do they wear? Had beards and a gray hat with with with short, you know, jackets or whatever the way the way they looked back then. She calls her for she tells used to tell us that she calls her father. She like she never saw somebody like that and eventually they met and got married and here we are >> because they >> they look funny. She never saw such a mahalik of >> that wear these funny American clothes. So he explained to them whatever it is and these are his. So that's that story. >> So in America your father was learned to in >> Batford first in Batford in 770. Yeah. >> Your father. >> Yeah. Until they until they got married. They were all Elder Baka. They were they were probably I'm guessing 27 28 by the time they arrived here. Some were a little bit older, some were a little bit younger. Um and u the fed took my father would tell her he took an interest in each one of them. They're all the same and he cared for them in a in a in a very personal way and took an interest in their and so forth and and that's and that's that's the beginning of that interesting time his father was a a gun from head to toe um uh that uh the mass had the tradition at that wedding of my parents was the sat. >> Yeah, because my father didn't make the my zed did he was the one who made the cast. I guess he was in charge of that then. And so we have a picture there's a picture that became world famous >> because it's he's sitting there you can see mentally sitting around but where you see him sitting at the head is we're familiar with them. >> Interesting. So how did your parents end up in Burough Park? The Reba gave them. So my father was a Malam in in the yeshiva bar park and and the Reb said to live near the work. >> Which is that? >> You went to there >> as a kid. Yeah. Yeah. When we when we when we sat my father from from who remembered him from who knows how long ago. >> So how long were you learning there? I finished I left behold I think fifth grade and I was the youngest of the boys. So and then I went to Bedford from fifth grade on it. >> I went through the whole system. >> So you were in Bedford through high school. >> Uh the fire and the end of Bedford. Uh >> I don't know what you're talking about. The fire >> there was a fire in Bedford indeing. >> That was the end of Betrford. Yeah. But the building, the new building on Ocean Park was being built already. >> I thought it was because of there was too many rats in the Someone told me there's too many rats in the middle. >> That too. I'm [laughter] sure that too. I remember that fire very distinctly. The whole fourth floor. It was in flames. You're not talking about a small fire. There's a big fire. It was in the middle of learning. It was in the afternoon one day. and and for a number of weeks maybe in a couple of months or so we learned from different places in Crown Heights and some shoes and whatever and then for the next month the ocean park was already finished. >> So you were in Ocean Parkway. >> I was in Ocean Parkway. Yeah medish. Uh no third year massifa I had Rabbi Ushbal had Rabbi Buket had Rabbi Schwe third year MFA over there and then from there you went to Newark but then Newark ended and Martown began. >> So you remember you're at the tail end of all the maesters. >> Yeah. Well I I was not there the first year of Mars. I was there the second and third year of Marstown. Yeah. >> When Newark and Mars were happening simultaneously. >> They weren't together. No, Newark ended and there was the class above us was the first one to initiate. >> Oh, so you never you never went to Newark? No. >> And >> and then after after Mars down two years, so the Reb then sent a to several yeshivas to to France. >> What years are you talking about? Um missing missing. >> Uh I'm guessing that that was doubted that the Reb sent three of to Montreal, one to Montreal, one to Montreal, one toad, one to where I ended up, and one to Bernal Lam. >> Yeah, I believe that's what it was. Could be Islam possibly. >> So you went to Teras. >> I was in Teras. And that was an experience in itself. >> So before um you uh you were a baker you went to first of all when you were a kid you went into uh my first that I remember that I had not that I remember that I had was was my mitzvah. Um I went with my parents uh and then uh those years was that every you were able to go in after that. So last time I counted it's a real [laughter] seven seven that I had to have. The last one was as >> so the stopped the I think for the >> I'll trust your memory on that. >> I just I happened to just learn the >> yeah where the announces that there will no longer be for there there were couple of kufus of kind of dialing down. It wasn't in one fell swoop. It started off I remember that you need to have a settle from Stom and so forth which I I don't remember anyone who wasn't able to get it. Maybe my circle of friends were all the good kids. Uh but um that was one dialing down and and then was when Yeah. when it ended and it was you know listen it changed it changed that's that's what needed to be done so that's what happened even the changed >> I think the said that the thought was I'm like paraphrasing the thought was that it's going to be a big >> but not necessarily was it in that. >> I'm pretty sure that's what says. Yeah. >> I guess we didn't uh do what we were supposed to. What um is there anything from your that's noteworthy? There a couple of things in not I'll share a few things that I think are noteworthy and also applicable. Okay. Useful. That's >> whatever you don't want to share is more interesting. [laughter] >> Oh, what I do want to share is not interesting. So, what should you say? >> No, I said more. >> All right. More interesting. Okay. Go ahead. Uh I don't have anything you know. >> So, you go ahead and what what is going to share a little bit in terms of the and lead into the this uh >> Okay. I'm just I'm just trying to go in in the order. >> You want to go in the same So we got to the >> So after the no after the went to Kle and uh >> one second when you were a bak >> you're not ready to jump over that. Yeah, I have to my brain >> take a local. >> Yeah. when you were a baker and when you're learning Bedford and Dean and then in New York >> in Marstown >> in Martown >> you were come you were by the fab like all the Shabbasim >> whenever there was a feran I don't think it ever happened that we we were there and there was a I don't remember that but the clut was that whenever there was a shabas you didn't know later on it became that it was the shabas fbrangans but used to be Shabas Morham and some other time you know whenever there was when the leopan and you didn't always know you didn't always know sometimes you found out they have to shakers after after musf was giving a clap or whatever it is and he was announcing min so if the waited for that meant that there wasn't a if the went out before was announced it means the will be after you know that you know that was the the signal whether there was so sometimes you only heard about it on Champas but I I don't remember in the two years that I was in Mars town if if it happened that happened extremely rarely that we were there >> right >> because there was anticipation that there won't be a and and I have to tell you that Shabos we were there shabas gishmak yes shabas bazund gishmach before Shabas in the morning. A little bit a little bit of an opportunity, you know, whatever. But those those were very special times really actually wanted to be there. >> When you were in Bedford, you also were by the FB and Chaveis or you were home >> in Bedford. So well how old was I? Wait a minute. So in Bedford if there was a fabangan I would walk. I was I didn't have a way to stay. I wasn't there was no dorm. I was home. I walked this the Mahalik from Burough Park to Crown Heights >> by myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I walked I can't even tell you how many dozen some of times. Probably maybe a couple hundred times. That we did that. That was that was the usual thing. In order for me to arrive on time, I used to hop up a sinion in Bor Park somewhere that happened early and and I went they finished and I went and I came there. Um yeah, I remember once arriving come to 770 after it's a long walk was from where I where I lived in Burb was an hour and a half. I remember um sees me coming. There's no banging stills quiet. [laughter] All right. That was it. Okay. Um and then you were sent on from Maristan to >> finished Maran. We were going to go into what was then called. We actually started because the in started after so we we we were sitting in as Rabik called the uh so we learned and found a place where we can lay down and have a bed and then then there's the war was that the spoke about Hon that there has to be an Lokim was this of sending in these places and that I think was shabas before if I'm not mistaken >> so you didn't know we didn't know that this was going to happen there wasn't to say and after and it was figured out who goes where and after >> but the reb was sending as before. >> Nope. >> And there was >> Oh, okay. That's happened. That's long before me. You're talking about I'm talking. What am I saying? No, that's a long time. >> Thing had happened, but that wasn't the regular sed. >> Yeah. No, no, no. It was not the seda for 20 years before us. No. Something like that. Yeah. There were hookups then. So [snorts] the mid neffish of the locals they hear a hookup their mus was to get up at 2 in the morning >> right for us that wasn't the mus that there wasn't even a thought so those kinds of things you know but they did it some didn't some didn't some didn't >> so you were there for two years then you came >> we were there for two years and came back and we were in 770 >> until you got married >> in 770. Yeah. So in 770 um no didn't go straight to 770 the first you were in Ocean Park. Are you familiar with that? I don't know. So we were there. We heard him from >> So that was your uh So that's when you interacted with not not in high school. >> No, I had in Ocean Park in >> Ma. Yeah. Give they gave him for 15 year old kids. You know [laughter] that was his job. You didn't >> that was actually his job. His job was is that he taught 15y old kids you know no I also learned both one year was uh one it was two years no two years I had 15 16 something like that in the best mish when you were rabbis med had the second year of medish and those two years you had and there's no question about it that he opened up you know tak back young but uh I didn't quite grasp the young not that older people do grasp him you can older than not grasp maybe design but that was that was wonderful that that was it was that it was actually fantastic maybe it's the opposite maybe some it's not that when you're older you need a proper and when you're younger it doesn't make a difference maybe when you're younger you need I don't know maybe maybe that for the kids this was a great thing. It wasn't I'm not saying that you would think though that you know for those who are shakist to understand more you need someone who could be mas or something more >> right but then we had him a whole year we were at that time probably 21 22 I'm guessing when we were in Ocean Park a little bit more shakus and thing is like this you know I ended up we our group ended up in Terasimus for whatever the reasons were everybody had their own reasons but there wasn't anyone over there in who in terms of there wasn't anyone so one of the differences between terms of you know good something That's for the most part. That wasn't their cup of tea. That wasn't their union. >> Uh our friends who went to they we were envious of them. We were envious. How that ended up I don't know. time. >> No, it was after some time Mendel was there. But they had they had Mashim over there and they had we had Enigma, we had Zelik Feldman something extraordinary. Can't duplicate that either, >> right? >> Okay. And uh so you're back in in Ocean Parkway then you then you went to 770. >> Yep. >> Yeah. So that's where you learned. >> Yeah. >> So what year did you get married? >> Lammed Zion. Summer of Lama Zion. >> And you're in this before the >> Yeah. >> Then you went to K. >> And then I went to K. Yeah. >> For how long? I was there for a year. Almost finished the year. >> Yeah. >> So before we move on to the what like you knew you wanted to be like how did this work? >> Yeah. Yeah. And and and I'm very proud to say that all of our not all but and that was a I think that was the beginning where this became the norm. So that was the beginning of that. >> I think so. I think that more or less that kufa that vintage uh it became listen for some people it's not whatever I'm not making I'm just saying in terms of numbers it became I think what year was of so that was lit base. So that started, you know, but by the time my wife and I went out in um it the numbers had already gotten up. Not everybody was in America, but uh could be that that was the rabbis with I don't know what it was, but they there were more voices and there were more and uh and those years listen I was I was sitting and I remember that vividly and I can tell you who was sitting next to me that first kind of There wasn't of a kinus. >> That's the year it was >> the the American >> American. Yeah. It was only American Canada I think it was. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then the said first international >> but I remember sitting upstairs maybe 30 and most of them were the the older group. Um few of us were the youngsters and we were before there was a kin we were starving for this because you there's no facts there's no communication uh if you want to talk long distance you have to pay 25 cents a minute I mean that too I want you to know phone calls were that's what it was just to be able to have a How much could you do by phone? You were really indep not independent. You you you were meant meant to be self-sufficient. A little isolation, right? But yeah, but you were meant to be self-sufficient. Very very hard. There's stuff that we take for granted. Now it's all kind of slicer that are given to you. You have topics, you have ideas, you can sh We were starved before there ever was a when we heard that this was going on the first it was like an excitement we sat in the front row didn't want to miss a word. So, how did the come about the the backstory in terms of specifically of St. Louis? >> Mhm. >> The backstory I found out afterwards there was a group of Balabas. You need to know this about St. Louis. St. Louis is a always was a >> defa. >> Yeah. But there were other places also the people 10 cities that kept going. I'm working on a book about that. >> There's an article in this month's about the visit. >> I saw and some of the stuff that's in that is from my pre-article article that's published in.org. >> Okay. >> And you and it's footnoted out >> without without attribution >> without >> I think so make a correction. it that was written already 20 years ago. >> Okay. >> And from then I have I have a lot a lot more material as I share. That's okay. That's good. Um so a lot good a good number of 60,000 Jews have rashi it's an organized gel. Uh there's a vada here over here. That's the V here in over here I'm saying in St. Louis V here of organized shs and talk about orthodox for um that's I think 125 years old so you're talking about a kah that was functioning when we arrived there were six or seven orthodox jewels they were mostly Shabas like did what they were supposed to do. But most very few, a small handful, a small small handful of people who went to went to some people, some people went to Berlin, you know, the parents wanted them to learn something. But those school, you probably count them on the fingers of your hands and maybe have a couple of fingers to spare. Um, so St. Lewis was a um was was an earl I don't know what some ideas there was a letter that was written to the which I have a copy about 10 signatures asking the to send >> so a city like that isn't it strange that there wasn't till then >> there was no no there was no one who was called there was some who lived but I'm Isn't it wonderful? So first of all, Rabkin, who later on became the Ravroshi as Barl Rifken's son, he became he was in St. Louis as a ber I have the letter of the there's a sh in St. Louis called >> so there was activity. >> Yes. Yes. cat and one of the reasons I want to write this book is I want to document that this is we're not visitors over here you know way back when there was there was there were used to call they knew that if they needed the place to get and they wrote to and he sent him he was a I think he was 22 years old There's um a little winding over here. I just saw this and I noticed this remember it's in the back. I think it's makes sense that it was Tshintess and it's everything is in in rashis so you have to guess who it is but alipus the guess is a correct one is Rabbi Rifken senior went over to the apparently his son Shaolan was already in St. Louis far away v you know he used to travel by train maybe by bus and he his mas his son it's a very interesting answer over there and that's why I'm it's printed but says I always or I always held youugan you need to remind me about Shalom. He's always in my m all the time. And I I I think this some of the stories that I can share with you about this is I think this is true of I think that's when it was said but the em is is true always >> you referenced that and and and and many many hundreds of can tell you stories that point in that direction. >> Sometimes we see it the care the care and the concern. Uh sometimes we see it goi and then but it's always there. >> It's always there. So, >> so you know we talked about and we see it we feel it as a minus felt but afterwards kenzai always used to say you know that it can't be everything that happens has to be used go ahead >> so the balabatim wrote a letter to the >> so they wrote a letter And >> what did it say that they >> we want I have a letter in English. We we we want to have the the teachings of of we want we want to raise our children to have to have the benefit something like that and the people who signed it. >> It wasn't a sh >> wasn't a sh No, no, no. It was a piece a white sheet of paper. I have it with all the signatures. I knew the people who signed it. I think every single one of them is already um and that's I'm telling you that's the backstory which I didn't know because I didn't see this letter. Someone gave it to me. One of the signators on the letter I had a copy of it so they gave it to me and Rab Shan Weinberg his munda both on Kansas and Missouri. So I think the one who came knocking on my door was Rabber that he was looking this was about after that period of time when this letter was sent. >> Mhm. So he you know >> I imagine I mean maybe I was told I don't remember. It's a long time ago. I don't remember but uh that's pretty pretty a good bet that that was the story. That was the story. So he went looking and uh of course went and looked and took interest and what do we know then I'm I'm kidding around. You know we're we're we're I'm coming. I'm traveling to St. Louis. something. >> Yeah, we went nowadays, you know, you can you scout out the place and you get all the stats and and the the average uh household income and so forth and so on and what the taxes are, etc., etc. None of that existed. No one thought about that. We went very much between us. Very much between us. >> So you you wrote to the Reb about this option like how how did that work? >> No, I only wrote about this. Only wrote about that. Um and um yeah, we arrived in St. Lewis I find something you know little things over here here and there >> among is brought to you by we live in a chaotic world [music] a world where for us is au we do not have the ability to hear and see the reb on a daily basis. Yet we know that theb is very much with us and is alive and thriving more than ever before. one needs to only tap into it. Provides you and your family with the tools necessary to tap into [music] all of this. 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You can be part of the through your financial support as well through visiting our website.org or through contacting us to setting up a meeting. Thank you very much. [music] Enjoy the rest of the podcast. >> We arrived in St. Louis. first thing that we discommend. So I'm coming straight to yes from is not going to go by without whatever and in St. includes like I said had an of but people who you know we can call them some of them were those from you know so I made and it was in my house in our house we had just we we left after two months later whatever it was it was what we would call now a all in the you know he fang. So next year we resolve that we're going to make a nice big fab because the sh the same sh this sh and >> same sh what >> what >> one that uh >> yeah that show that he wasn't there over there anymore he had left he was over there for a number of years there all kinds of interesting stories um the the reb predicted when he left the Reb told him that he's going to come that he'll he'll come back. >> What happened was that after Raikenstein was nif we were in St. Louis and Ravakin was the was was the for many years the Raosi unique position that St. has Rav Rashi. That was his title and that's what he did. And he didn't he wasn't really of a specific sh of the Vi which represented all the shs and all of the misters in town. Um so after he was nifter, Rabbi Schaen had of his who who really enjoyed him when he was there. So a few a handful of people and they happened to be in a position of leadership and they went to someh like I said wherever they went and they said we need a new could be that's how he came to you know I I I I was a I was a youngster without being perish people I was a youngster I was just new in town this whole thing happened I was six months in St. Louis more or less when Ra was nifed and right away the conversation was let's find a new Rav Roshi and I wanted it to be at least someone who is a you know there has to be so again without mentioning there was who was Msugal I thought for this and I called him up and I that you know this is happening they're looking I think you should submit your candidacy I I didn't think of cash with him I didn't think about it I thought of this I would have gone to as many as I can let them all submit to as long as it's so that wrote to the I guess he was interested in it and he got an answer as long as it doesn't hurt the candidacy of Raen. So hast that that's the way it was meant to be. >> Mhm. >> So um that's that's >> you're holding it when you made a >> I made a big thank you very much. Yeah. You'll have to do this throughout our conversations. Remind me where I was up to. Okay. >> So, we had this is the lower level of the was Shabas Mala. >> Yeah. It's a different and now the from communities large that's grown that developed. It wasn't that way. 200 people showed up. I brought Rabbi We brought Rabbi Mosha Feller. Okay. He regailed. He told he spoke he had a meeting from the palm of his hand. Uh it it was a historic thing. So what wanted to tell you is so I sent invitations. I didn't make invitations for this kaplop. I went to a printer and the prince of types. That's what you had to do then. [laughter] And there's an invitation and I had to have a description explanation of what you tuskis is. You sent it out stamps. whatever. We had a couple hundred people who came sent. They had never seen something like this and uh uh so we sent invitation to the de with a return envelope, you know. Uh I think it was with a return envelope. Yeah. What came and as far as I know that wasn't the 3 $36. That's what it was. It was $36 for a couple. Come. It was a 20 and a 10 and a five and a one cash and it was me client's handwriting. >> So that's what I have was you know you get something like that. There's there were a number of stories maybe we'll get to >> right when you saying right when you come >> yeah it's all the way at the beginning. for is being part of of your >> that too. I hope I I'd like to think that those were moments that I was to cause the and were other such moments. >> That's what we're about. >> Yeah. >> We think we're leaders and we have visions. That's I'll share with you this M if we can get to talk about the >> we have time. Don't worry. >> So I'll tell some stories. Okay. So we'll get to it. No, you're taking the local. >> What were the what were other such instances that you saw? >> Well, Arab has to do with the so but if you can put it off later I'll share some of those things. >> You can start you can do the and then we'll you can always go back. >> So >> I think now we're no longer chronological order. We'll uh >> it is pretty much chronological. The murder story happened very early on. Oh yeah, >> it was it was I wanted to do something. >> You went >> I went no by the time we landed No. No, no, no, no. We arrived me Olive. >> Yeah. >> So that's I believe that first such long my wife was teaching in Bka. They didn't want her to leave. It took a little bit time. From the time that we got the answer from the till actually going, it took some time. Not a lot of time, it took some time. Um and um so I I wanted to do something vision. You know I would if if anybody today said today they can understand this. You came to a town 99% of the Jews in the town never heard the word not what's that you have to explain. So maybe there was some old old-timers and new maybe some of the old-timers in this they were there but that's what you're talking about. You had to literally explain you met somebody what are you here for? You know fellow in one way or another the questioner says what are you doing over here? You have a school you're teaching in the school. You have a sh didn't have either one of those things. So what are you doing? it it they they couldn't grasp the concept of what we were doing and it was I wanted to make a impact in town other than the few people that I was learning with or teaching. You didn't have prepared lessons either. You had to do it all. You know what was the one book that wasn't available in English about think Jewish >> by Zman Posner? >> That was the book. Yeah, that was the book. So I I'm just trying to understand. It was very clear that you're not you're not there to make a sh >> It wasn't mu. No, it wasn't mu but you're coming to a community that has established you have to be very careful not to be seen as hurting anybody because even you know what I'm talking about. So granted they didn't do the work that we ended up doing and and end up with six that we have today. Yeah, granted that that wasn't that wasn't the case but uh you can't do anything to hurt them. So we had to be very very careful and go about it in a judicious way. There was a day school. There was a a day school um and um and shy I wanted to do something that happened in the community uh something up the they so at that time there was the tumul my friend had this thing I think you wrote about it t last year you wrote about it. No. >> So those letters those letters >> how would we see those letters? I don't know. Mr. I heard about it somehow. I asked them to mail the letters to me. I mean >> the letters to the federation. >> Federation wrote I'm just saying there wasn't even a place where you would automatically find this. You can't go to it wasn't a website. It was you have to understand how out of the loop everybody felt. Your mamish had to call somebody and hear about it. If you're in you called the right person and he didn't have it then and how was he going to get it how was he gonna get there's no fax machine either he has to mail it to you I mean just appreciate that >> blood mailed you the I don't remember now but yeah >> so I saw I saw that this is a thing that wanted >> see you're saying even the fact to make a public then wasn't like okay this is what you do it was like an idea that they heard that was I know that Rabbi Shiff from Philadelphia had up and then there was who was the fellow San Francisco where Drizzen. Yeah. Yeah. Big one. Maybe I saw pictures of it after. >> Okay. I had a schle guy whoever was coming. You always the first 10 20 guys that you attract are always a little bit interesting when you go. Uh and I mentioned to him what I want to do. Oh, as he sits down and he and he designed them 15 feet, two halves, four branches and and the middle is with the two of them are brought together. So you have a so it's three pieces of hakle there the the brackets on on the bottom so keep it standing upright and two halves of the four and four attached in the middle and 15 ft tall a gamaka design. No, we found up a fabricator, a metal fabricator. It was a Yam Gelt back then, probably which I didn't have. You're talking about a long time ago. 500 bucks. He wanted um so there's a metal fabric. Okay. So then where do I put it? So I'm driving around. There's a government center Clayton. Clayton is St. Louis is St. Louis city is the city of St. Louis where everybody lives is St. Louis County and the county has a county executive. He's like the mayor of the county. Same thing as a mayor and the government office building they had a big nice plaza and I had a young man over there from who was in politics and he knew the county executive. I gave him this idea. All of this was whatever. It was news to him. He never Okay, next idea. Uh, you know, let's do something for the Jewish community that time of year. You know, that's basically what it was. It it seemed that he didn't think it was a problem legally or anything. He didn't have any problem. The county executive, sure, masking. And uh what happened was I come there delivery. were bringing it the morning of three pieces of are there and >> it was an event or just you wanted to >> I we were going to make an event. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that was the plan and come to that put the first thing is we're putting it up is a few days before Kaneka first things we're putting it up we had I had that I knew that there was an issue over here that the Jewish community here and there they have their separation church state and whatever it is that they think this is bothering them so much I had you know something I'm not going to make a big tum beforehand let's get it up we'll get it up they'll come it'll already you know it's up already. So you're in the disposition. I didn't imagine anyone how it would break out. It was a terrible. >> You knew that people locally had an issue in the people? >> No, I didn't know. I didn't talk to anybody about it. But I better keep it quiet until we get it up. Which saved the day actually. >> I come there, it's delivered. No one in the community knows about it. But the county executive's office sent down a guy saying, "Oh, stop. You can't put it up." That was year number one. In contrast to year number two, when all you know what broke loose, but year number one, year number one, a county executive sent somebody down. We have to have our county, the counselor's office, the legal lawyer of the county needs to take a look at this, whether this is okay. And then there was no there was no rulings from the Supreme Court. Eventually there was a ruling in Pittsburgh and a few other things. Whatever that all of that they ted that this is unconstitutional. They always ted that to listen to their understanding of the constitution. If the courts will say that it's unconstitutional you know that's basically what my approach was. I didn't. Anyway, guy comes down, says you can't put it up. Wait, the account county accounting counselor is going to study this and we're going to decide. Oh, I'm Mania. I took out 10 cents from my pocket. I went to the pay phone [laughter] and I called Mosquito. I told him what was happening. Want to put up and these are the This is nothing to do with the Jewish community yet. I don't know how long it took. It took an hour, two, three, whatever. I'm waiting over there. They come down. They said, "Okay, give us they gave us a bra. This is >> a matter of a minute or an hour." >> Minutes, hours. It took a couple of hours. Guy came down says, "Yeah, you can you can do it." So, we put it up. television stations were there and the county executive was there and took a nice picture with us and it was al also gang good it made it to the news in fact in including the the the suffic that was by the county and the solution was that it's okay but the Jews didn't like that but it was too late it was already up and we had a ceremony number of people came and but the icky is that it was it was visible and a very visible place the plaza of the county government and as far as I'm concerned I I you know it it it was the presum that the wanted the television stations and newspapers in fact the controversy ended up being a on this whole thing so there was nothing negative about it uh and the Jewish community didn't get their act together to even voice their opposition to it which I'm sure if they would have known about they would have and then it would have been a controversy and it would have been mired in the in this and you know come across which eventually we did as as balas you know I didn't do anything wrong I did whatever the county you know gave permission for we did everything kadasica did but anyway that's the way it afterwards. >> So, was there an answer from the >> Oh, so what >> in that original thing? >> Yeah. So, listen. This is a mask here. I didn't call back to say good. That's not the way it should have been. I had a kasa that I came for a day or two after Kaneka and I'm here in some 70 and label grown comes over to me there was a settle from the leo first of all I felt very very bad [laughter] what >> I he wanted to tell Mah you over. Oh, but the Reb asked already translate what that means. Translate what it means. What was the conclusion in St. Louis? So, I went to work as soon as I got home as the next day, whatever. I took all the articles and the letters to the editors and people wrote and I responded. Uh most of the lines that I responded were from the Reb's letters. Mameish took out paragraphs from the Reb's letters to the Tene story that are appropriate if if it worked in Tex work in St. also whatever but they wrote they wrote very harsh things very harsh things and there's also an element over here to beame and them I'm an unknown to them and they had no idea what was coming next you know here's this is this new guy comes to town nobody knows which synagogue he belongs to nobody knows what he's doing and and and what is end objective of his and he comes and he upends we this longstanding position of the Jewish community against these things And it comes this young guy mamish you know new in town and so you know I shook up it shook up their their so I'm being malus a little bit why they felt the way they felt. Uh but so I wrote piled in a whole pile of stuff that I wrote but I sent whatever little piece that was on it and that's when I got that answer afterwards. >> What answer? So the answer that I got is not the answer and it goes along this it's it's a you know did something and we we hold this both my wife and I was very difficult time we didn't realize it that was going to happen next year the real difficult time was war that broke out namish the whole community against us practically >> I want to hear about that >> but that's so But this answer was prepping us if I was going to come next week, next year. >> The answer was as follows. I asked a few things. I >> That's the um it's a copy or that >> No, this is my handwriting. >> You copied from Mosc. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. >> I have it. I have in my wallet all these years. I carry the caviat kishov of of mine. >> Can I see it? >> You're not going to see it? >> Yeah. Okay. If I can find it over here, it's here. Yeah, it's the stuff sitting around over there. >> So, you keep this in your pocket always? >> You keep this always. >> Okay. >> It's It's gonna probably break into pieces because it's old. Let me show this. [snorts] the host. >> I I found it amazing that you carried it in [laughter] your pocket. >> I put it in there. I never took it out. It wasn't like >> Okay. So, how >> So, so the answers were >> Yeah. Can you read it and and translate it also? >> Yeah. >> I'm looking at it while you >> Reb writes there were three parts to the answer. One was the and then there was the answer to the question. I I thought I was hoping I you were able to get from the on how to respond to their tightness. see if we can get a little bit more and they also called a meeting and they wanted me to come to the meeting which actually never materialized. So [snorts] what should be the position at the meeting? I wanted to know anyway but the was what circled my words and here circled the words >> so those were answers to one and two >> that's the way it went. Those are that's the way the answers were. So he made an asterisk and then wrote the answer to that question. These are >> I those are my words and the circled it because the Reb circled it and put an asterisk next to it. >> So if you you're asking what to answer to the article on their article >> that makes an asteric and then >> number two out of the position we should take at that second aster. Okay, that was the second actually the first answer is before and probably on the other side probably if you could flip it over. Uh praise is his portion and great is his that he sanctifies Hashem's name. Um let me just read it in translate etc underlined twice and he was not um was not embarrassed before those who scoff who dismiss or any anyone who's a a malik is anyone stands in the way and um of a good thing yahadus and he disseminated Judaism actual river among tens of thousands underlined. So there weren't there were no tens of thousands who actually saw the but the story hit the media in such a big way that they heard about it. And so I there are a few things over here. A few things over here. Uh the the the there's no hakama over here. The reb wasn't maximum of course. So but you understand how the importance of these things are and how the level was um and this continued I'm going to share continued afterwards also for weeks and months later also and the value that the reba put on media that time that wasn't so was common in the Jewish community in the f community >> the media >> was not media media This is you know what's the what's the usees that there was no appreciation of it. It could be that even among anu there wasn't you know this is secondary. Yeah it's it's not the tlas but it's it delivers the tlas you you inform people and and and and you present it as a a celebration of yiddish kite. It's all these are all the things that the writes in those letters to tene and the media was something which was which was a big deal otherwise I don't understand what was tens of thousands um and the is not only did this thing die down I'll tell you some stories it died down but uh it really catapulted us >> it put us into a position that everybody now knows knows about us >> to be reckoned with. >> Yeah. >> What's there's the other the other half of the >> Yes. It's coming. It's coming. >> Okay. >> So, the article how to respond to the article and how to position to take at the meeting which was going to take place one and two. See that >> other any other questions? And here's a a wonderful example of how uh the Reb get the same thing in what's the book the same sentiment that there are a lot of things that need to be decided on the spot and and and that's the way he wanted it to be. It's not a call. There some things as you'll see some things that need to be uh kept kind of uniform but nevertheless you know there's there are things that are local in nature and uh anyway let me read this one and two any similar questions there should be a conversation among the who share that these kinds of situations in parenthesis the one who is familiar with the situation in Washington and what's the purpose of that conversation to prevent contradictions from one to the other. and quite to the country that one should help the other. So at that time it was very easy for to feel that this is his little world >> a local >> and the repercussions of that that the JCRC for example in this town Jewish community relations is going to hear what somebody else did and was matter was matter wasn't matter so forth and so on and then it becomes you don't understand the precedent that you set and But this concept really is a very good one to keep in mind. Essential that things that one person does really establishes you're not only your local rabbi of your local little house big or little. You are representing Gans Labavich and that's the Reb. And you need to make sure that you're not creating precedents that the Reb would be displeased with. And that's a grace and it's something for everybody to keep in mind. So we did that. What happened was this >> ask right >> uh >> you say you did that. So the opportunity to when was there an opportunity to speak to and who were in this mass or were potentially in this mass who they were preparing to have him and and whatever. So I went over to to to Rabbi Kinsky and by the way Rab Kinsky was a great support there that this when that when all of that broke loose the second year you have no idea what I mean by that [laughter] it it was there were two Jews who met that Kaneka and for a week afterwards who this was not the topic of conversation it was and they very artfully made me the the the bad guy, >> right? >> Because until I came to town >> and all of a sudden I come to town, there's a big problem. What did I do? Absolutely nothing wrong. Whatever they had a problem with was their own interpretation of the constitution >> without any. And it turned out that years later, a couple of years later, that's exactly what the Supreme Court said. Um, so there uh >> you're saying you went to Krinsky. >> What was that? >> You must that he was mid a lot. He was mided a lot. >> Um, and both he and Rabbi Groner as well. The rabbi wanted to know blowby-blow what was going on >> in St. Louis. 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Order your set today and start living with >> second year to to to get down to the poish. Uh they understood from everything that I said. I want you to know I never had I'm not taking a great deal of credit for it. This is how we were brought up. never entertained for a minute not to do it with all the lut that was brought first year from the first year to the second year. Um but they saw this as a as a that this is destroying everything that the Jewish community built for who knows how long. I mean that's the way they saw it. They saw it as a real threat to them. Uh and they also understood >> that this is the way it's going to be, you know, you know, so they uh we tried the best we can. Try the best we can. >> So what was the heart of it? Is it opposition to Labavich or they're afraid of something? >> It's on the outside there there were two two because it's probably a combination of both. They're uncomfortable. These are people who were very accustomed to keeping Yiddish shash not in the street outsiders type that that's the attitude wherever Jewish is they said these things to me you know some of it they were malish of kadusha by saying you're commercializing like the other holiday No, it's meant to be. The family is together in the home, you know. So they they saw this as offensive to whatever preconceived idea they had of what Khan is supposed to be, which wasn't exactly the same as ours. And so so that was one. The others, there were some who were kind of principled. They called it the slippery slope. You know, you have to you have to protect this separation of church and state. You have to keep religion out of it. This is a mandate from the constitution. The kesh and their mind what >> it's not in the constitution. >> It's not that's correct. The law of separation is not for sure not. >> For sure not. There is a an establishment clause. We're not going to go into the the sh of the law. Yeah. So um so some of them were principled about this matter and they saw this is slippery sl you do this today next thing what's going to happen is they're going to force kids to make you know to to say something on Jewish kids and whatever argues that if you don't utilize the the the rights and the freedoms that America that America is is is giving us then you lose them. The way to exercise the the best thing how to preserve it is to exercise those liberties. That's when Malashin whatever you know I I think I I I said when we when we last spoke I I kind of said this there's a all of them including this as well. Yeah. ever wanted to be. He wanted people out there to see he wanted to see a robust and a proud and an open celebration of Kaneka and he wanted to get American Jews a little out of their you know the thing that this is something we do still a hate and private hate he want yes that's for sure but he also was us it's the same with I'm getting off a little you know you stand in the Millions of people have put on film. Millions of partial to reason these Jews this one was a other whatever he asked to put on today and here you are with is happy the is happy is happy or whoever is doing the is happy. So it's a good thing. There's a much much deeper nuda which the others who are into cure for hok so some they they they they miss that which is why they don't do the kind of stuff that our guy is standing out there and it's hot in the heat and in the cold and he's standing out there uh taking off time from learning and most of the answers that he gets are rejections. And he goes and he continues and and if he's and he gets the every you never met him before. You're not going to see him again. You're not going to get a donation from him. You're not going to get whatever. You're not there's no long-term relationship over you don't even get his name in. Donald he would say I don't know if they take the email addresses nowadays maybe they do but but even that garnished all you did was you did a mid and for them is and you stand in the street that gets baked in the is natural to us because the Reb taught us that is natural to us [clears throat] you know uh we can we can rekindle that to others it's it's completely strange completely strange and you think the fact that there are I don't know 4,000 5,000 but kabad around the world and millions and millions and millions of Jews who were touched by it happens to be Labavage why because there's some great organization in the world of Labavage some master plan marketing plan that succeeded But no, no, there probably are better marketers out there than us and more organized people than us. It's this and we have to realize it. the yoker of that and that is why labavage today not labav that's that is why we we are who we are and the others are still scratching their heads and wondering how did they do it come learn some they'll learn how we did it but that's the is the anyway where am I up to in my story >> I mean talking about that position of the second year. >> The second year was was it was was huge. It was intense. It was the front page of the Jewish light which is the the weekly newspaper over there. It was the editorial of the Jewish light. Um it was sashed. What happened was he didn't realize the county executive he approved it but he didn't realize and he got 40 letters from Jewish letterhead organizations almost all of them in opposition. And as soon as we heard that they're getting letters written, so I also hopped a few letters, people to write whatever in support, but it was mo overwhelmingly against it. And he's getting that and he's confused. He said, I I did this for the Jewish community, >> right? >> And and and it's the Jewish community that's so riled up uh riled up against it. So he didn't he thought he had time to make a decision because in his go mind he thought that falls out on which was a few weeks away all of a sudden two days before three days whatever is we let him know that it's decision time we have to do this so he made the mistake of calling a meeting of all the people who wrote him letters big conference room in the government center. Probably 40 people against it. It was me, Rabbi Rifkin, and other one or two people who showed up and it was nasty. And all we wanted to do was not this is not there was no one who was smart enough and at hand to the county to to let him to the county executive to let him know this is not a good idea to bring to bring these parties together. But there was no time. He basically told his secretary at the end of the day, call all these people and come to the meeting tomorrow something like that. So we had and that was nasty. The people who now are my good friends [laughter] who got up and thundered against this and they said, you know, if this is what they're going to do in our community, I'm going to do I we announced the building campaign already at that point. So I'm going to do whatever I can. This is former rabbi of a leading congregation, probably the probably the largest one in town and St. Louis is predominantly reformed. He got up and he I'm going to do whatever I can to to to make sure it doesn't happen. And there were people who withdrew some pleasures, some major pleasures. I did whatever. This wasn't I never did complaint. I informed whatever happened fast things happened blowby blow. Every day there was five things that happened. So I call in and I'd say this happened. This is what this one did and this is what that one did. There was some interesting gurus which I I I cannot share but there's some interesting >> throughout this thing. >> Yeah, there was some interesting on and how to deal with some individuals it it'll stay for now. Maybe there will be some time. Um and we held our ground but the Our leading balabat were concerned because they were raising they meant to help us and they saw us what's going to be with our fundraising for you know and I you know what I said to them said I was the at that time was a beautiful one but you know over the years it kind of dissipates that I said to them to these are my friends who were raising money I If I change my position on a thing like this because of somebody's donation, then I'm I'm the same as the others. That's how they run their business. That's not us. And I owe them a gratitude that they they they accepted it and they supported me and all these things. U you know everything I wrote this one that one said whatever it was $50,000 back then a donation two brothers >> that with Drew >> that withdrew at $50,000 in 1983 1984 was a lot of money >> even today it's not >> yeah for a bullying campaign it's it doesn't buy a building >> understood it was it was it was a tough thing but I I don't know my my meim was straightforward. I to tell you there was a time after that meeting where the county executive had to do something. He had to give in to some of that pressure. He couldn't say. So he kind of cut the baby in half. What did he do? He said, you know, you can put it up for one day. You can put it up for one day. Uh you can't camp out there. be made now putting it up for one day if it's a violation of church and state is one day you're not allowed to do one day either so he basically agreed with us on principle but I can put a time restriction on it he said and he had hoped that that would make them happy but it didn't really didn't make them happy he didn't he didn't process that that that part so listen so Rabbi his routine is that he used to stop in St. Louis once a year, sometimes twice a year. He had balabato and he would visit and from the time that we moved there, he would stay by us. I come home from this meeting and I was shook up. You can imagine that was terrible meeting and uh is there. So I tell him what's going on. I tell him what's going on. So at the end he wanted to know what did the county executive say? So I told him they can put it up but only for one day. So he says [laughter] so he said that you could right it has to be done in a big way. It can't be done. Says this one day yo yo yo he agreed. [laughter] Anyway, so I remember that Vikit like I said to you, no one in town, Jews, two Jews didn't meet without talking. This was the topic of conversation. Somehow Bahasha brought this. The federation, this is the catch story. The federation has an annual meeting. Annual meeting is well, they bring all their big supporters. A couple hundred people was a breakfast that year in the Breenidge Hotel. a grace of breakfast they have planned it beforehand and this was I think Ze Khan I think it was the last day of Khan maybe the day after and the city is still over all these things mostly mas against this guy who came and caused trouble I'm the cause of the problem because until I came nobody there was no arguments I'm I'm the cause of the arguments. >> If you don't do anything, so they get I'm sorry. >> If you don't do anything and they don't That's right. That's right. That's right. No, but listen, arguing is making an argument is not the t of our thing. And the Reb didn't want that either. But if it broke out, we held our ground. I think that's was the Reb's approach. The I'm not sure. I can't say with certainty that you have have to go there to this and this place of to to spite them. don't think that but if that was your decision and you did it don't back down because these guys because of all these creatinist that they have finished and that's he thinks because backing down a retreat in a Jewish is and their position is that that's I think I think anyway it's the last day of the day after that and they're having this annual meeting with a breakfast case and the guest speaker now who comes to federation's annual meeting all these letterhead organizations American Jewish congress American Jewish committee Jewish community relations all the alphabet soup of traditional establishment Jewish organizations all the people who hold the views you know who thought that the manura is the worst thing in the world at that at that moment and they they're there and they make up like the couple hundred people who were there and whatever. So the guest speaker, I don't know how they got the guest speaker to come. Was the mayor of New York City was Ed Catch. You probably don't remember ever hearing Ed Catch, you know. >> I'm familiar with Ed. >> You heard of him? >> Yeah. >> He was a bombastic fellow. He spoke. He had no whole sparred. He said what he wanted to say and he said it loud and clear and very dra um and no whole sparred. He whatever nishno that's the way he was. That was the personality. Um he's a a brash New Yorker you might want to say and very proud of his yiddishkat. And as Mata he wrote, >> yes, I heard him say that. Someone asked him, a reporter asked him. You hear him saying that? I heard it. I heard it on some station. A reporter asked him, "What would you like your epithet to be?" Um, a proud Jew. Something like that. He answers. That was the first thing. And then the and passionate love for New York. That was number two. I think my role on it. >> Yeah, he wanted anyway. So, he's coming to town. >> Why he agreed to come to speak for Stafford in St. Louis, you know, from he gives a talk. >> He was the he was the mayor at the time. >> At the time, sitting mayor. Yeah. Yeah. And he is giving this talk. He didn't talk nothing about the mad. He had no idea what was going on at St. Louis about this. >> You were at this dinner. >> Who? >> You were at this. >> I was not. That morning there was a bris. One of our anis that morning and I remember people coming from that to the bris and they shared what happened. Okay. So I heard of mama's fresh firsthand story. >> Um the con show I don't know where he used to live in Pittsburgh for many years. Anyway, so I'm out to Bris and this is the story I talked about. you was the micer. He finishes speaking and someone I know who it is, a friend of mine. At that point, the Froom community backed me up 100% in St. Louis. They saw this as anti- Yiddish kite. They saw the anti the Orthodox community and there were no lobav. They weren't lobishes by any stretch of the imagination, but this is out of hand. What's going on? and they jumped to their credit, they jumped to whatever they were able to do in terms of defense. So, um, so questions and answers. Guy who has his hand says, "Mr. Mayor, you're a Jewish mayor of the largest city with the largest Jewish population. Could you tell us how you deal with religious symbols on public property and specifically with a manora on public property? When that question was asked, there was a big gasp that went up from the whole audience couldn't believed. They were embarrassed that this was brought up that this was brought up in front of the illustrious visitor, the mayor from New York. Now he knows this shand that's going on in St. Louis. There were there were a ghast but he doesn't know what's going on public property. No problem. He says I am fully in favor of it and support it as long as it's privately funded. das let me tell you something we have one in Manhattan here and we have one in Manhattan there I don't know the places that he mentioned uh the few public manuras that we have something and I don't have any problem with I think it's perfectly fine as long as it's privately funded so that alone for the people in the room oh no he's taking the wrong side on the issue it's a Jewish mayor though so basically what he's saying is at a minimum. It's okay. It's okay. Both both sides have a point. Whatever they can make, it's okay. >> You I think you you skipped the part. He said, "And in fact, we >> In fact, you're good. You're good." He said, "Let me tell you something. Let me tell something about the minora." He says, "The people who put up the minora in Manhattan, they're the Loviches." He says and they live in Brooklyn and the manora is in Manhattan. Friday afternoon when they light the minora it's real close to Shabas and they have to get home to Brooklyn the in time for Shabas. This is him telling you this for the crowd that wanted to hear this the least. [laughter] He's telling them, "So what we do is we give them a helicopter and we fly them from Manhattan to Brooklyn so they they can get home in time for shops." That's the story I heard the story. I picked up the phone and I called the mosquitoes and I told I told label it says the Reb smiles from I say from ear to ear but it says the Reb smiled when I heard that story so broad it was a big big huge they had nas from couch. Yeah. And he said is constitutional. That's what the but the said and that's what the label told me when he told the story that's constitutional. The just wanted to gain people you know who who who support this. Get rid of this argument of constitution. >> This is before the that Supreme Court. Everything was before tell another couple of things. I come back to 770. No, this is before coming back to 770. Um, I get I can actually see where the date over here. The point over here is I get a letter in the mail. I get a letter in the mail from Bianca JJ. He didn't know me. He didn't know me. I never spoke to him. I can't ever remember going. He didn't know what was going on in St. Louis. This wasn't reported locally. W There was no means of of really reporting this. There's only one way and you can kind of guess at it that he writes me a letter of support and it's you can read it. I have only have a copy of it over here. You can you can this is it. I think this is it. And somehow found it. This was December 12th, 1983. He writes soliticism at the he ends up don't listen to those guys all those people who think that you have to hide your Jewishness you know that's that's not the way to go out there nowadays you everybody's out there with what they stand for not to be embarrassed and this what you did is a great thing and keep up the good work and may Hashem be with you and all your undertakings a whole lot you hear uncle he over there throughout that whole thing. You hear him over there? How did this happen? I can't say with certainty that he didn't write this unless he was told to. It seems out of the blue like why would he send you such a letter? >> Yeah, doesn't make sense. was he was going around being who heard up. He didn't hear the story either. I can guarantee you I can't say with certainty so I'm qualifying what I'm saying but I'm willing to bet on it [laughter] that this was Milo who told him to write a letter >> and he describes himself I got about the national committee for first Jewish education making a major organization you know Mr. because I wrote that they had a bunch of letterhead organizations who wrote against it. So he's the national committee for is one of the world's largest educational movements today and wishes to extend a heartfelt congratulations on the accomplishment of erecting a mana in the heart of St. was doing too long. We've shown the world an inferiority complounds away and get so somebody thought somebody somebody thought and said went on the musk told her I'm guessing I'm only guessing. Write a letter. tell him to write a letter of vid that he can show to somebody that then a couple of months later I think it was a couple of months I'm viter 770 I see I think I was more in 770 than I was in St. lo wasn't actually wasn't the case, but this is the story. So I see I see the label again. Oh. Oh, he says the Reb gave me something that I should give to you. He told me a buffet. The Reb gave me something I should give to you. Remember, come into the office when you have a chance. Can't even remember what it was. And then he finally remembered and he's going around. I remember him muttering to himself in his office, we're trying to find it. And he says to himself, he says this place over here, he says, by the time you walk from here to there, you have five distractions. He says about America's office. So this is why he I can't remember where he put it. Was the miser there was that Kaneka in New Jersey. The state of New Jersey issued a proclamation. The general assembly, actually the whole legislature voted on this and it's a resolution adopted January 9th, 1984 and they it's all about Khan and it also mentions these words friends of Labavich. I don't know who sent him into the letter. I don't know whether it was friends of I don't know who it was. Maybe it was because I think Misha Harrison didn't go by friends of Lavage. I don't think that was whereas the friends of labavich reminded us a new during the season of religious observance of the high concepts of ethical and righteous principles for which we all share and to which we all strive by consecrating a minora before the state capital during this festival of Kaneka in commemoration of the first recorded military victory over spiritual oppression. It's one of the whereas whereas whereas and this was sent into the Reb. >> Someone sent that to the Reb. And >> and the Reb made this notation there with the Reb's pencil. You can see it >> and told them to send it into St. Louis. I should This is the Reb's pencil mark. >> We all strive by consecrating. So the Reb is highlighting this section. They consecrated before the state capital during this festival in commemoration of the first recorded military victory over spiritual oppression. >> They made they consecrated the state capital >> and this is the part highlighted that and says >> arrow send it to St. Louis. >> People told you that's the handwriting. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, this it's it's this is what the says about. You have to remind me >> what >> you know what's going on. >> Oh, you saying what is >> Yeah, you have to remind gives me goosebumps every time I think about it. Oh, there's upset. There's upset you man over there who's having a problem and this might help him. So, these are the It's not me. I'm I'm sure it's every you know you do you do your work with Mina and then you get a little bit older and some of the stuff you think that you're getting smart you can do it in your own you have your own whatever don't learn you're not auding [laughter] which has to do more with the the history in St. Louis which brother before I went out on it's very important to contextualize these answers from the or these you have to contextualize it and sometimes we we are not able to do that gaz you have to contextualize it any context and then maybe you understand it uh and and then You need to listen right you got to talk to the elders in your community before I came to St. Louis as gander sed whatever I went in had conversation with Rabadikov [sighs] now St. Lewis is unique in many ways. Probably every place is unique in many ways. But in this, you know, I think we're unique should be unique. When I came there, there's a whole of don't want to denigrate a community of people by calling them a snag. They're not that. They really aren't. But what the rebel calls and there were even among them a couple of people who were doing quote unquote which was a term that the Reb didn't they didn't didn't seem was displeased by I want to say because they're not anyway spoke about that so I wanted to know going to say I wanted that. I wanted to hear what Rabbi says about working together with them. It's nice to be friendly, not to be accused of competing, not to be confused of or hurting some other this and that and the other. I wanted to know and this is from is it from Eden? From Eden. So I'm reminded of the story. So I went and I spoke to him about this and I asked him what what do you think? It wasn't I wasn't slanting the question not to do it. I think maybe if anything it was something [clears throat] or what what would I have anticipated? Yeah. Can no that wasn't his answer. He said this is he loved to give me sham. I don't know if you know that he had a mush for everything and but he was very clear deliberate wasn't wasn't on the fence about this. This is infur you have this approach to and this approach to and there's a certain and a certain that would respond to this this and there's another and another who responds in a different way and then treats in a different way and they both are doing good things but to mix them up. I don't I'm now I'm kind of putting words, but this is mix them up. It's a prescription for disaster, but that's not what he those weren't the words that he used. So he and I watch over the years and in fact book has a lot of that as well and in does she see a lot of that as well and and it goes back to the same question the fact that we have 5,000 houses is because of and it's because of the and the's approach to and the's approach to to to tan mitzvah every single yeid and that's what he teaches us in all kinds of ways in all kinds of ways that he gets us to go along with that we have an bahamas that is resisting but that's that's everything that the taught us and these things are as much for us like I said and all kinds of polish there's a much for us I think when we spoke about it we I talked about you know the reb was talking about moodi the reb talking about for the yeshiva would talk about the would talk about things that had no and they were there by the hundreds and the didn't want to be and the answer is that this was a this was a how you look at the world and how you understand the world how how a ye is supposed to see another Yid's mitzvah etc etc etc so let me tell you ancient history 1930s when the reb came to St. Louis there was a newspaper in St. Louis at that time called Yiddish a Yiddish language newspaper a lot of the stuff that was printed in the story about the Reb's visit to St. influences from there information that he got. Why the editor of the newspaper? He loved and understood the understood this big word. I take that back. But he was enamored. He >> appreciated appreciated the was going on in Russia. He writes four weeks worth of articles each each it was a weekly. He writes and he the glowing terms no one writes about anybody like that the way he writes about the what was his mus by the way he was a mis he was a kind of guy uh and what was the mat of American yedish guy in 1930 So it's interesting you'll see if you look up his kadesh you'll find Gilman letters long letters five pages six pages letters we don't know what he writes but you can learn from the letter that he's speaking he's speaking to the he writes to the we have to do something Yiddish, let's work together. And you should see that and this is a friend and the Reb writes to him ask him I wouldn't even respond if it wasn't you who I know that we're close and whatever he's he recogniz recognizes his closeness and the he has forb recogniz acknowledges it but if it wasn't you I wouldn't even respond basically the moral I'm I'm putting I don't want to put words but you can see it keshish The Reb writes over the we we speak two different languages as if we're passing each other like ships in the night. This is not a good idea like imam that he does the ships in the night but we are speaking languages like two people who cannot understand each other. So, I love you quote unquote and it's wonderful what you're doing and I appreciate you know your your desire to do this but mixing them together. These are my words [snorts] and if you watch and I think if you'll read you'll see a lot of answers like that also but in you see it again and again there's one place where actually the is disappointed in him by the way he wrote a book which I found this is already going off topic a little bit St. who's founded knows that we are from the name of Yehuda was seagal that's >> that's her name yeah sagal land so this book written by Arya leman of St. ism eventually he moved to New York and he became the head of America the religious book >> that's the name of the book is >> it's a biography of all things that he decided to write published I think 64 is not here for a long time already but he was a and um he was disappointed in him. They were going to do something for Shabas something for Shabas and the Reb was maskbre all this is the yes same guy I don't know if at that time he was in New York already maybe he was still in St. But there were letters to him and they're good letters. They're close letters. But this letter is disappointment. The made up a condition. It sounds like they made a condition that that you don't make it institutional. Yeah, of course I have to be supportive of anything people want to say or do shabas. Of course I would. But you put in names of organizations and whatever you're and that was the condition I said that it doesn't become institutional very disappointed because he saw that as divisive ah these guys are doing it these guys are doing it the other guys are doing that's what happens when you work together with other people they're only interested in getting points and credits and getting some publicity that's not that's That's not so we have to be wary. I don't have all the answers and to know exactly where the lines are drawn. I'm not suggesting >> right obviously depends on each place. >> Absolutely. him saying that and that's a very important thing to be said but the sensitivity to that I I heard and I understand and I think that you want to know what the success of the is and the success of lab is it's it's and it's different than the others >> what we bring to the table >> and those who we bring to the table and that's the they're scratching their heads what's the secret of the that's the secrets is the secret. >> Is the secret is the secret. >> All right. >> Amazing. I really appreciate it. [laughter] This is very >> I think I think you got more than one. >> I'm sure there's much more to talk about and uh thank you for sharing everything. >> Not problem. Happy to do that. And uh the ultimate goal is bringing Msiah. Amen. Kamish isn't