Ep. 11: The Chossid Who had 29 Yechidus'n, with Rabbi Shmuel Lew

[Music] And in in the next split second in my mind, I had a an insight, an inspiration. that this man who's talking now is the greatest leader, the greatest saddic, the greatest, the greatest teacher, the greatest mak, the greatest, [Music] the greatest builder of misters, the greatest publisher of works of previous generations. Well, one of the greatest of the whole 20th century. But look, think of this farm that ever gave out. Besides those that he's inspired people to give out and and and you know this all in a split second but at the end of the day he is your personal best friend and that you can say about everybody in the world. Anyone comes to is to him totally his whole essence is given over to that person. I'm Yasi Cayman. Welcome to among an ongoing faban about life as aid, our vibrant connection with the Reb and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. >> Okay. So, thank you very much for being here. We had some minus vuim when we try to do it uh on the uh via the internet but uh I think it's better because now we're doing it face to face panim. So >> however it happens that's how it's supposed to happen. >> Exactly. And um that that's that's actually I feel like that's connected to you because the way you ended up being who you are is because that that's the way it was supposed to happen. and you as well and everybody. The real challenge is what were we going to do with that situation and for that you need a reba and a mashpia and a good friend and you have to be honest with yourself. That's what you need in order to find what do I do with everything that brought me to this second where I am now. >> Okay. So I I think we should talk about that. May maybe you can tell me a little bit what brought you to the Reb like how how how'd that happen? Well, I'm uh my parents my father was born in Russia but he came to America and um as a teenager in 1917 January in Tavis Tavis he was was his day and um he studied to be a lawyer at form university which the top law school was a brilliant brilliant person in order that he should be able to be self-employed and be able to keep chabas. And my mother lash was born in New York. And I was born and brought up in Williamsburg, which was quite a Jewish neighborhood. It was much more diverse than it is today. And I went to Yeshiva to Vadas, a good f. And at the age of 15, that was in the summer of Tshinv 1955, my mother Shalom sent us probably the first time they could afford it. They really were very pressured financially, post depression years until the 50s, until the toughen youths sent us to camp. And in Williamsburg, Rabbi Mosha Lazar was a ba was very active in the agura and he he was the whole all the >> in the camp in >> in the in in Williamsburg itself. He was also >> he wasn't a bachan 770. >> He was a bachan 770 but he was his hafatra like many other people in those days of labavich was there in Williamsburg. He did what? Whatever he did, he was being m people >> because he was from there >> in the in the good Israel on Betford Avenue, 616 Betford Avenue. And uh for example, if they had a um they put out like a a monthly little journal, a little de so-called, but he would put input. For example, they had an article about sites. So it also had that it's a beautiful mic to sleep with and like not are not very aware of that but in generally speaking he is a person with and true and a sense of and my mother had a very high opinion of him. So he went to camp a good because he was there >> but he was involved in Williamsburg because he was from there that's how he >> he lived in Williamsburg a couple of few blocks >> he was involved in all these organizations >> he was involved in in um youth activities and and >> and he was in campa so >> he was in campa I don't know what his role was even doesn't make a difference he could have been the truck driver could have been the learning director probably but he was there and he had a spiritual position he ran the shabis the shos singing him things and the next year as is known he came to the Reb with the idea of making a camp and the Reb called him in famous stories about how the origins of camp you know it's almost almost 70th we're starting the 70th year this year this is the 70th year actually >> this And so my mother heard that they're making that Rabba Lazar is making a camp. So we went to auda not because it was a good but because it was Lazar and the next went to uh camp GR. I was a counselor. I was 16 and a half years old and I was not the youngest counselor. >> Okay. And uh that changed by the time I was a staff member between that campaign tov that's when I really met Lebar was sort of something hardly knew about you know it's it's one of there a lot of groups there were plenty of groups in Williamsburg as well that were just coming building up and we knew that labavich are people that are known for a Israel but it was quite remote from my personal experience in campa today >> Montreal >> Montreal so he was at the same like group with me and he told me that there's somebody there >> the bakham in 770 would all go to Kagoda >> people went to that's the camp there were there were very few choices of camps to go to this is one of handful of from boys Jewish camps and after meas a lot of bakim would go for a week or two to these camps as guests and obviously while they were there they did have one of the bahim that was there in camp a good that summer was a ba by the name of Berl Shmp and so he was older um by several He's four or five years older than us. And uh at night we were waiting for a shia when title bomb used to give a sh every evening. So told me look we're starting a sh in Tanya um with Rabbacha >> and Rab was there in the camp also. >> He was a guest. He after me I guessed he he was there as a guest. >> Yeah I read a week or two I read inim from >> he writes also that he was in this in a for a few weeks >> that he goes to the camp. Yeah, he read he wrote that in his >> all right. He went to camp and um I consider myself very much ideologically. The idea of going to to join something different >> right >> than where I was quite comfortable was a very radical idea. Your father was like a was was >> my father was he never learned in actually a deep deep and he also was he made his own as a but his father studied in Mir in 1890s >> okay so you're >> and he he was he studied and he knew closely he was known by brisk and the native these people it was very lit the family but my mother's side >> they were from Presburg her father learned in yeshiva in Hungary in prebber and his father but so for generations but you know it was it was um and the atmosphere with us it was you know it was just wasn't anti- anything but it was uh um I sort of had an identity >> right both at home and in my yeshiva and in the the groups in the p to go with you know activities I was not looking uh I was looking to learn you know that's nice but so this idea was so radical that the kind of person I am I said yes da because it was so out of he asked me would you come and I went and we learned that summer the whole eggeras marim at the And um it was very beautiful about must have been about 10 15 brim that came in one of the rooms there. I think there were mixed feelings from the camp authorities about it. I think they didn't want parents to say you know kids were capped somewhere else or whatever. I don't know. Um I tell you one thing there were things going on there which were euphemistically speaking no you know a lot less than that was going in the evening things >> I thought the problems only started these days I didn't realize they had problems then too >> they were very different form you know and wasn't born said about the Tyrus is there in Ganeden already, >> right? >> So that's our that's our work to overcome all those external and internal impulses that we're supposed to overcome. Um so anyway, we had this sh we finished it and at the end of the summer >> so B Shmp was giving the sh >> B Shmp gave the Shia made us see him. We learned through Sachuva and before Rashashana, which is a few weeks later after we left camp, let's say a month later, he sent me I could be I still have it a small little shaver and with a handwriting just like the Reb's handwriting I subsequently realized >> and a small black pocket Tanya And we were invited to continue learning Tanya in the yeshiva. Now this was um in in a dormatory on a Wednesday night. It was you know it was an open secret in yeshiva but it was outside study time was after >> they wouldn't allow it in the >> after going home doing your homework. It was 8:30 or nine o'clock at night. uh there was shurim going on but even before that or simultaneously uh called me up and invited me to come to the fabbran of the on the second night of he said that's a special occasion which is geared and associated with bim from all yeshivas it's not just for Kabad specifically and that >> and I said fine I'm coming that so that was the first time >> those years would be for that >> yes all the years all the years and you see it in the and even you see in Poland it was inim but the all night you know 11 hour or something was was um for it wasn't for especially and it's now going to be 70 years the coming >> that I saw the and heard the first um it was really in a sense when you look back you see key moments it was a transitional moment it was a key moment in my life and said I was there a couple of hours. >> What was what was it like? What was that moment like? >> It was I was a a fun boy, you know. I went to shul every morning. I was in Tadas. I was happy. Um I had I had a teacher Rabbi Palm Pal was my teacher in the in the 11th grade and he was the best teacher I had. And it was really really ahead of his time and he was good person and he was a big figure. >> He also he overcame resistance. He went to see the rebate at moments when he his own circles. He was a person with um he invited us to his house for Malach in groups of two. He he had um he was ahead of his times I think >> in how to relate to American Baham that I was finished that year then and just going into Rabba Shapiro learning uh that that year and um but I was also an American boy and I was in three sports and this and that and that day was a turning point that night that was a turning point in my life. Um I don't like to bring in Kipa Shabba Kipa but that was the day that the Dodgers won the World Series for the first time and the whole which was in the Suka there was and this Brooklyn night was very very much Dodger country and >> they were there were honking horns the entire in the background >> and to me it was an end of something which is empty and meaningless, just something to waste time with, you know, maybe harmless, but it's certainly meaningless and the beginning of everything. But it took me years to actually appreciate that and um it was encouragement of people like and others and there we had they teach there were several groups in I mean Rabbi Sudak was a ba he had a class that wasn't mine um Krinsky you have a class to others Mosha Bamilski I think maybe was himself And um I studied most the two years that I was a student in Tadas >> earlier earlier. He was already we had a connection. Yeah. But from the a family connection there >> and the person that I learned with um most almost all of those two years was Rabbi Gasha Gerelic. and he had a very very profound effect. Um he would tell stories. He would bring tapes. Bring a tape then wasn't a little iPhone or something or it was a wall soak one of these big heavy tape recorders. He play the niggan haned alolu as sung in 770. The gave a lot of this. He told stories about the Reba and you saw his love for that and he taught the it was Tanya that we were learning and a classmate of mine who lived on the same street the next block Rabbi Yseph Nakman Rottenberg very very big going and he was very close to Labavich and had a cash with the reba um he's a dian former Um he's in Baltimore for many decades. Um so but he and I were very very close friends and we went to the Tanya and we would walk home and walk to the bus stop on Robing Street. It was late at night, you know, starting 11 o'clock at night maybe when we got there after this year and we insisted on paying the 15 cents or whatever it was his coffee that he paid for the bus. But he would stand there and sometimes one and two or three there were times he was there till maybe 1 2:00 in the morning and he was talking he had to push it away. Uh so that was one thing besides the also when everything was which I'll come to in a minute. The first time I actually met the Reba face to face was a few months later. But the Reb would give for Vadas in a one of these half gallon bottles and he would pour in some wine and add some more and then they would make a fabangin and uh with good gashmas in a nearby shul. I remember I never counted but I I can imagine there were anywhere between 50 and 75 buckham that would come >> this after every >> after the yeah after after the time the gave the it could be a few weeks later you know they worked out what was a a suitable time and um so sometimes Gashando would also bring there in Williamsburg He was generally uh pretty careful not didn't take mashka very much or anything but one time he did and you know was it was uh very interesting what he said to the r who was he was giving us his apartment or something anyway um so that you know that had a a big effect already that first year I was at Seven Fabians which I mentioned >> that was the first >> and then there was which was in the Gayart ballroom which was on the corner of Norin and Eastern Parkway and then there was Yuchvat also in the same hall probably and then there was Purim. Now all of those four were during the week. You can take a bus there. But then I also walked on and also on second day Shabus and uh Yam. So >> who would you walk with >> in Williamsburg? There were a lot of families. You know over the years the Blosskis lived in Williamsburg with them later years you know shabasim the whole family would walk Simkin lived in Williamsburg a real Tim but he didn't walk he was unfortunately disabled um but we had a fbrangan probably a little bit a few years later than that um twice a year like Pes night and or something in house in Rutland Street and >> he was he was part of Mascus like he he was >> he was >> he worked for the right >> he worked for me I don't know if that was his only job I don't I don't know I never he's buried in London actually in Anfield cemetery >> there's an article in the we did on him Yeah, few years ago I remember I remember but I remember the article but I don't remember the details. I remember him >> right >> I remember many things that he said at these fabangans because he was close also with the satov and he used to you know to bring messages sometimes. Um but so there was a there was Lazar Lazar had a brother whose birthday was alfiss I remember and he lived in Williamsburg so he was like the the shishers from the food company they had a connection a lot of these people this is you're talking here about the 1950s and early 60s the goods and the cuffs was not many years after you do the fbe from Vienna or something some of them. >> So you had six fablings. >> I I don't remember who I worked with. >> Right. So but you had six fabans that first year. >> Seven >> sevenans. There was then there was which was a very very historic. It was right after the tragedy of the other of the uh the terrible tragedy inabad and theb announced at that he's going to be sending 12 he sent to Israel that summer and that's a whole chapter in itself and then tamos was also very historic and a thing which is not known um it was the beginning of campa this row and they went to camp on to Zion Tamas that year before the first trip went out there the it was in Ellenville the first Gas Royal ever now what's not that well known it was Jesus if I remember correctly was on a Thursday pretty sure and at the end of the must 1:00 2:00 in the Marshall Lazar comes over to me. He knew me from Williamsburg. He said >> you you were you were part of the camp. >> I was going to be a counselor >> and um the f the very first staff meeting of that camp. The beginning of the staff meeting was an address by Rabbi Khadakov. It was in 676 Eastern Parkway, the dining room of the Yeshiva. And Rabbi Khadakov came in and he took a look around the >> Where is that? 676 Eastern Parkway. >> Where a few few houses >> between Brooklyn and New York, >> huh? >> It's on the side of 770 between Brooklyn and New York. >> The This was a staff meeting. >> It's it's on the side of 770 between Brooklyn and New York. That's where it's on the side of 770. >> Between Brooklyn and New York. Yeah. And but that was where the dormatory and there was another dormatory in Lincoln and Troy as well. But this was like the main dormatory. The dining room was there. >> I once got a ride with Rabbi Ramos from the and he was telling us about how the Reb visited the dorm. >> The Reb >> how the Reb visited the dorm in on Lincoln >> on when there was fluip. >> No, a different time. The Reb just did a surprise visit >> and as he was he was driving us as he was telling us a story he made a sharp right and drove us to the uh to the dorm to show us which which house it is that the that the Reb was there. Anyways, go ahead. >> Right. So, Rabbi Khalakov walked in. It was a Friday afternoon. I was still in Toras yet for more than a year beyond that. I came there for this meeting and looked around the room and they were all like basically young people s you know 17 18 year olds you know those are the older counselors and he told a story that the once spoke to a group of in maybe it was in Ria and he said the said um you are fantastic people with a lot of he says you have one you're young >> time will clear that as well >> right >> so he said that to us as well over the years I thought it was a very beautiful way to begin that >> I was watching a fablangan yubis tamos And the Reb said the Reb says the opposite. The Reb gives a whole about the younger the young can do. And then in the next the Reb says and even the older people can also because they can act young. So the Reb has flipped flipped it. >> There was like a Jew not not at all but he said that he met a lot of kabadnik. He said they're all 40 years old, >> right? >> They said what do you mean? He says the 20 year olds are wise like a 40-year-old and the 60 year olds are energetic like a 40-year-old. Anyway, >> so um let's come back to that and after the camp and this was a couple of weeks later was a days before camp starting camp's about to start >> the meeting with Rabbi Khadakov. Yeah. >> No, the meeting with Khadakov was a a few weeks before camp was the first staff meeting. Ah so you're going back to when the >> now yeah now was and at the end of that and it was a very fantastic fab I think was there as well but the ma it's my favorite one well it's one of my favorite was my very very special ma anyway um not that I followed it then but the subsequent I learned it but I was there it was a it was an experience at the end of that that's I think it was a Thursday night and it must have been 10 15 minutes maybe I I don't maybe I was going to go back to Williamsburg with mo I used to take buses anyway I used to go home by public transport >> and when I was inas I never was late the next morning and that meant after shak Chris, even if I slept three hours that night, because I didn't want them to think that somebody who associates himself with Labavage is using that >> as a way to, you know, to miss a day of of of uh >> and at that point they're already considering yourself associated with Labavage >> in Judian after after camp they knew I was close. Look, I you know I had a circle these people a lot of these types of people but we were close to each other and people knew I had it. >> Mhm. >> In fact a few years later I met somebody who I was very close with inas and he said to me he wasn't blaming me. He said I just want to understand why did you become Labavich? What was missing? >> Mhm. What did what was wrong with what you had before you was? So I said I did not drop a single thing by coming to lab. I said on the contrary I said the same fillin became a different thrillin. The same gammora became a different gamorraha. They said all the experiences of before were given a completely deeper meaning. I said, so it's not that I uh abandoned or I I I left anything that I had before. It was the context. We say some some theb showed how it's like it's it's the idea that both in learning in everything it it introduces a person to a deeper dimension >> it says that it's the it says that every area of Torah becomes deeper and different as a result of the way you look at it. It's not it's not one of the four it's which which is penetrates everything. It's so and this is in life generally. It's a way of looking at life. It's a way of seeing meaning in in in uh things which otherwise would just be you know preunctery just regular and uh anyway so Mosha comes to me at the end of his must be 1:30 in the morning 3:30 2 3 2 3 2 3 2 3 2 3 2 3 2 3 2 3 2 3 2 3 o'clock in the morning that the Reb said that he wants a minion to go to camp Israel on Friday and have a sa there so that the beginning of Israel should be >> on Friday. >> This is I heard it Thursday night. He asked would you be ready to come tomorrow morning 9:00. It means seven hours later and I was here >> and I went that that Friday. I went and um and we had 10 people there. I remember the lipids brothers. I remember some of the people we and we had a little sa there we got back just before Shabas. Um now the Reb himself also began the camp and not also heard this is the Reb started the camp by coming there before the boys came out >> to visit. I didn't know that I was then in Williamsburg, >> right? You didn't know >> playing ball or whatever I was doing, you know, and I I was very upset. They didn't have the telephone connection like you have today so much. Anyway, I so I missed that one. Um so um we were in Ghana myself and two younger brothers that summer as a counselor and in Zion I already saw myself as like >> so be but before that you already went to and you saw the >> Oh yeah was and and the rebel Shamp took me and Rabbi Rottenberg Yosi Rottenberg was his name uh to the Reb after the Fabenion I don't know why but they went upstairs to the Zal for I don't remember >> there was another minion while the was downstairs. the the had the and every took it was it was it was very with a tremendous amount of of of energy and even as go and and um I you know I didn't know the workings as far as this is the first time I was ever anything like this what I know is that they said may will be upstairs that's in the zal It was packed but you know but I don't know how many people it was packed packed and the was on the far corner later for after so the table was there in the way you went around the west you know that which goes to the where the suka is you went there there was a bit of a space and then in in the duram in the south in in in the leading to the and that area the Reb stood and there was a table and the Reb gave it's nothing like the crowds that were there 10 20 years later obviously but it was still hundreds of people and you went out through the in 770 BMP took us over to and he said This was without consulting us whatsoever. He said uh here are two students of Rottenberg and Lou and they want to ask the Reb for they should be. So the said Rottenberg what's the other name? He said Lou. So the said I agree to the but they have to agree as well. And three times in my life that I had varying situ very varying situations where the told me I'm giving you special energies. I think it applies to everyone whether they said it to you directly or not. anyone who wants it. But it's what you do with it that really matters. >> And I maybe I'll jump and tell you the second time. >> Yeah. was when I was actually going to um which was the beginning of after a year of when I consider myself and I was known by Shivas in also as Labav. Um but the trajectory was I would be a for lawyer very close to labavich you know that type of thing coming to fangans hang around with the guys >> maybe living somewhere in tene or so you know and learning d I don't know what I would have been doing >> but uh but alavage >> and also in I had my first I'll come to that then at at the end of G's ro there about coming to and at before there was a whenever everyone went to the to all the different sheling and the rebba didn't start a coff till after they came back wouldn't start till about after midnight at that I approached the Reb and I said the words, I want to ask for a that I should succeed in. And the Reb said or whatever the double, he said. And uh and I gave him and as I was withdrawing like walking backwards from the reb when I was a few feet away he looked after me on his reb's left side and he said you also have to do something about it. So in other words, you know, you got a double braha, but it's not going to work if you're not going to do something about it. So this is a general approach of the Reb. >> This is a general approach of the Reb. The Reb gives the but we have to do something about it. I think that's what the Reb said the first night. The Reb said that that we're going to help. The Reb is going to help but is for us >> give much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So um now in Zion I walked regularly with Marshall Lazar. That's who I walked with. >> Mhm. just remembered that's who I walked with ones and cho it was and fella lady also I I got to know him >> he's also from Williamsburg >> he was no he's from Minnesota >> he's from Minnesota but he he was studying invadas in the dormatory so he lived in Williamsburg >> and um subsequently married my late sister >> he's your brother-in-law >> he's my brother-in-law yeah now um Yeah, in Zion we walked obviously, but also many times when there was just rumors there might be a which was not which was there was not a given that there's going to be a But he was the and um so that was about a couple of months before my my birthday is and uh the I was learning Tanya with Maybe they saw it or was maybe they asked me if I wanted to go to for my birthday, get a a direct bra from the Reba. And this was like this was like a major major step to actually go and see the Reba. In fact, where many bhim ofas went but they went like they went they would go to see other and gdim etc etc you know it was no it was like a done thing people went for to different people >> you're saying for you >> for for me I I didn't go I didn't go to I didn't go here I didn't go to to any of those I you know I I saw them I maybe went sometimes to the tish or to the or or something, but I didn't uh I didn't entertain the thought of having to go to them as an individual asking for Abraa and this became a very special thing and thank God you had to make appointments anyway months in advance for this. Rabbi had this little pad and he wrote in, you know, for the next few months all the nights that there was there were three nights a week, Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday. I think it was with older lady years from it was only Sunday and Thursday and um my was on a Tuesday the first but I was starting months before preparing and the preparation was they invited me to come once a week besides Wednesday there was the Shia Tanya in toas I would come to 770 I I think it was on a Tuesday and learn. >> So the bahim suggested that you do this or >> Yeah. And we learn with Gash who was Gash Mandal who was he was my >> right >> I'd come I I remember there was a time that he wasn't there for some reason during the preparation. And I would go once a week and we learned bosani teny bay. >> Mhm. >> And they suggested that I learn at bal as well. And um they told me about which is which was formulated by the which had it was not necessarily for is generally people who took on themselves wash negasa by the bed sleep with sites wear wool and talis cotton there are certain uh probably that's when I started a lot of the minhog in those couple of months >> preparing for the you got >> preparation for and then I >> was like a formal formal group then or was like a Was ata like a formal group then or was >> it's a group which is mentioned in the >> not mentioned but I'm saying what was like they got >> was it famous I never heard of it before then or >> was there like a meetings or anything or was just you were part of it something that you associated >> it was it was I think it was something like like kas you undertook something was it was like an association I don't know if they ever had meetings a good question it would have been inro where it was big >> you know relatively speaking. Um the main things they I mean I took on things for the and then I had a heavy session. He told me that the difference between andad or other people is with others you you can be an onoff you just you know you say um you don't you go to you tell them everything your mile your you say everything your problems and your achievements as And he also said if the tells you to sit down, you don't sit down. And that I had a big problem with. I didn't I said it was beforehand. And he was trying to explain it to me. In the end, he just was frustrated. He just >> What was your problem with it? >> If a man like I was looking at the Reb tells you, walk down the street. You walk down the street. He says, you know, >> your problem is how could I not listen if the Reb tells me to sit? >> Yeah. you know, and he and and uh he screamed at me or some that's the minute that that don't you do and uh by the way just an aside parathetically the the Reb was once going out to his car I think that Simpson was the driver in the early years and it was snowing where it was it was icy on the ground and the Reb told him the driver to go in first not to go around because it was slippery and he just stood there didn't like didn't move and grabbed his shoulder and said ful is obeying is bigger than everything anyway that's what I heard um when I went into actually and I wrote to they told me I should write that I learned I wrote I'm learn I I was coming in there expecting Mhm. >> So before I was looking at that mimema, I looked at the gamarra that I've had been learning in yamas that week. I was ready, you know, they write this, write that, you know that I'm doing this. So the first word that ever said to me was zit, sit down and of course I didn't because that was the protocol. But I was >> he told me >> instilled it in you. >> Yeah. Well, if he told me that's what you do, I I I just wanted to understand, >> you know, how does that fit in? >> But my knees were wobbling already. Anyway, just to meet the Reba was a very very one-on-one and um in that I asked the Reba about I was very sec I you know I was learning and I learned but I was doing pretty well in secular as well. Um and the plan the unspoken plan which I would follow my father footsteps be from lawyer that's all you go you would go to what the bim did they go to a night school in Brooklyn college it was not it wasn't mamish it was college but it was more like you call a technical school today to learn a skill people learn accountancy they learned law they learned something for a panosa That's what they did. The Reba was the person who really showed the world that it's not necessary that you're not gaining not in uh intellectual development and not in and and not in panos even that's not you know that's not a key to those things. Maybe you can elaborate a little bit on that because I think there are people that have this question a lot like you know you need so much money to live especially today how you going to do it if you don't have the proper credentials or secular education what what >> the secular education that people get the I haven't I haven't examined the statistics I did many times the last time was probably maybe 10 years ago or five years ago you know like I in the last few years, but it's consistently that when they say that um x% of college graduates get jobs easier than others, let's say 85, whatever their number, they'll say together with that they will say that 85% of them or 90% are not employed in areas which they studied at university. I'm not talking about someone who goes for a specific um for a specific profession, right? Someone wants to be a doctor or whatever it is, uh they go into it. People they study because they think they're going to it's this is the ticket to a job. It's not it develops your mind. It's not it's not uh and and the BBC in England made a series of programs about genes, about genetic questions. And the man who made it was a man called Professor Jones from Wales, I think, and he was in University College London. I'll tell you, I worked with him. He made a a series of six programs about different aspects of the genetic composition of people. And uh one of them was about weddings about marriage and the you know combination of genes and and and about you know what they call do today about genetic diseases and preventing them that each one had one word name. This was called roots. >> Mhm. >> And it was sold in the whole world. And so he met me a few times and interviewed me about howim works in the film community. But the actual program which I didn't see but the actual program uh they had I spoke to him in my office all the interviews but on the on the camera on the visually they showed a we went to in London. >> Mhm. got permission with from the horse and the kala and we sat together the professor and I and they showed us sitting at the wedding talking and they played what we had discussed in the office. So what were we actually talking about? We're talking about knowledge and education. And he told me that the boys who went to yeshiva in his classes in in in London are streets ahead intellectually in understanding all the concepts that they're learning. He said their minds are much more developed than anybody else. This is a non-Jewish professor. England isn't that high a percentage of Jews. He said every time I have somebody who came from yeshiva their shop the mind it's developing the mind. Now if you need a certain uh area of expertise whatever field a person wants to go into you could do that you know they could do that at the age you don't have to start that at the age of six. >> Yeah. >> You worry about a kids there he shouldn't have to become a shoe shine boy. uh you can do that when you're 15 or 20 whenever it you know it it takes weeks or months a year or two even one of the integral components of being aim and whether it's or these days give us an opportunity to connect with our to connect with each other and be better what is the story behind each of these days. How did the Reb commemorate and celebrate these days? And most importantly, what are the lessons, the takeaways, and the action items needed for each of these days? All of this and much much more are answered in the new set recently published by Dher. Our days is a journey through the Kabad calendar in story, meaning and practice with over 700 beautiful glossy pages with elevated content, beautiful, beautiful photographs. You, your family and friends will enjoy and live with each. This book is a must for every lab home, for every schul, for every school. It is a perfect gift item. This will not collect dust. It will be used day after day, month after month, year after year. You can have this set. Go to.org/ org/our days. Order your set today and start living with there's another component to all of this. Not just that whether or not you need your credentials to get a job. I think like what you're mentioning that in American culture there's a whole obsession with panosa from when the kid is 5 years old and that's you know what track is going to go on to or she's going to go going to go and that's like ingrained in American culture and it's like this pressure that's put on them since they're little kids. How would you eventually make a panasa? I think the Reb was saying maybe you can tell me but I I believe that the Reb was saying that the whole way we get is from the so we have to do the Aisha wants to get the pan and we should be we should be obsessed with the and he'll figure out the panas later not be obsessed with how you're going to make a pan because that's counterintuitive. I think I think that's also part of it. It's not not not only the dangers or the issue of college, but also that to refocus on on getting on the on the source of the pan which is the and therefore do if you if you're supposed to be in yeshiva being yeshiva or whatever whatever the situation is. Does that sound right? >> I 100% I had an answer from the to this effect which I'll come to in a minute about about >> going to college. >> That's how you started this. >> Yeah. Yeah. We but you said we should talk a little bit about the secular education I worked my first 10 years the Reb said a number of times both to Rabbi Sudak and to my because I was I come home sometimes 3:00 in the morning and I teach at 9:00 >> you came home from what >> the wanted me to when I went on in England >> the said that part of my work even though I was working basically with youth adult education and students I was like Kabad House and Kabad on campus, those didn't exist really. >> And I traveled around the country to different campuses. I met hund I had a mailing list of almost a thousand students >> at that time in the in the in the late 60s and early 70s and um I I I dealt with many students who went through times where they couldn't get a job. And those who got jobs very very often it was not in the field that they had studied including Jonathan Saxs he's one of the students who went to he became a rabbi >> he was a student that that you met >> he was I met I met him in two and a half years after I came to England but we were very very close um the point is the point is panosa comes from the aish as you say I'll come to the settle of me in a moment and even it needs a bit of discernment to understand that it's motivation it's developing the mind it's it's it's it's you know working and and that that gets a person a good a good position I'm not I'm talking here about getting an employment Some people want to go into business and want to you know uh it's also something which the more you know the more you know uh of of the more it helps because it develops the mind in a in a much deeper way than people think. I know somebody in our community. So he was learning only kesh. This has happened to other many people and they wanted to get a qualification and go to university at some stage was 18 or whatever and in order to take the necessary exams you had to go through a school and I'm principal of a high school of girls where they do these exams so I can uh I can facilitate this um study which I did many times and um this so this baka he studied he did about four which people would do five after five years in high school it's a fiveyear course the last two is mainly towards the exam the first three and um he did it in six months maybe or less and did all the different subjects and he got an A star that's higher than A in every single one. Then we said you want to do the advanced studies and he said that was boring. So I said maybe you got a better education than you thought >> right >> what you did you know you want now you want to go into a field you want to study it study it your mind was developed that's what really matters >> you know there's so many examples there was another Baltuva a doctor and he had a son a brilliant uh he is he is a brilliant scientist now in but he applied for a grant. The Japanese government gave a certain small number of people who were genius. they got a scholarship to spend five years for free studying in Japan advanced science and um and this person was one of them this son who's a professor and and uh he had to he didn't know Japan Japanese that was part of it so you learn Japanese now took a couple two three months or even less I don't know what it was you the that is if your mind is developed and then you decide which area you want to focus on and you do focus then you know um it nowadays those who have are are discerning you see what goes on at universities >> never mentions this too the social life the political life you know they're being used >> for sure >> they're being used and and >> soak wrote after the uh after some October 7th and the demonstrations on campus the anti-semitic ones. So wrote today a good day to ask me why I don't send my kids to college. >> That's right. Well, that's exactly it. >> Yeah. So what did the rabb tell you about your your >> now? So when I went to let's come back to my first uh which was >> this is the first >> yeah I was invad spoke to me then in Yiddish there's a different word when you say you familiar and not familiar it's most many languages used to be in English >> thou. Thou, that's right. Thou is is is personal and you is plural or respectful. >> And thou is do in Yiddish. And and you is in Yiddish or French you have. >> Wait, no. You >> and to >> Oh, so you is do. No, >> you is you is >> okay. >> You is you is plural and thou is you as an individual. >> Okay. thy and um so the Reb spoke to me that you're writing formal that was the only I was many times it was the only one that said >> formal way of >> it was before I came to and I wrote to the about the future and this was a major it must have been under the influence of my lab mashim about whether to take a one-year break. really today it's done by many people secular non-Jewish even they what in England they call it the gap year after you finish high school you take a year out to find yourself or something and then you go to university but so I asked the rebba about um whether I should do what I was planning to do like going to study law to study at at at Brooklyn College at after I finished high school. This was a half a year before or and and also I mentioned that I wasn't ready to go into I was in middle I was in in then you know finishing my exams and things. So the Reb said in June he said this year he said I don't know how to say this there and and and the Reb said you'll certainly stay in he did not he did not talk about where I'm going to be the following here but he did say >> I'm not following the said this is man that's ending >> this man you're going to certainly remain in that right just where you are now that's I was I was this is February mama >> and this and the school term goes till June >> right >> college that's which you write about college If you ask my opinion, I think that this year you should you should throw all of your energies into Kesh as you yourself mentioned one of the options and maybe more. So as far as I was concerned that was that's what you're doing >> very clear. >> Yeah. If you and then if you and you knew you if you ask the rebba you know many people say don't ask the rebba if you're not prepared to do >> and you mentioned Rabbi Saxs. >> Yes. Rabbi Saxs, I saw a video of him talking about that he asked the Reb about being the chief rabbi and he he says that I told my wife before I asked are you ready to listen to whatever the rabbi says because I'm not going to she he wanted his wife to agree that she's going to listen to whatever the rabbi says before. So you got Rab Saxs had the from from the >> No, that's a known thing with >> I and I've dealt with many many people with hundreds of people over the years. come up pretty high in their fields besides Rabbi Saxs, other people in secular fields and they had personal medical issues, fertility, different issues and um some of them were in touch with world class leaders in the field who might have said differently than the Reb told them. Actually I remember one uh very big professional said you know I I was brought up she came from you know her grandparents were like city pol from Poland not the parents not so much but uh she said when you ask she said I'd be afraid to go against what he said a fertility question Um yeah so in that told me this. Now the point is here I did not prepare the ground with my father so much. Not then and not afterwards. I guess it was like just you know an evasion maybe or you not you know when I think back >> you were a teenager. >> Yeah. But you know, if I had a there's, you know, when I look back at all the different things and the bittersweet memories of of certain things, I say if if I knew then, but today it's from experience and and and observation. I can't say I was when I advise people I'm very often telling them things which I never did or maybe never would have done but I sincerely believe that that's really what I should have done and what what's best for them that's all if they're going to listen um so I mean >> you you had things from the you asked the different things that you were struggling with in yourself right >> there were certain things that you asked theba questions about how to deal with the of your own children. >> That was later on. That was years many years later, >> you know, that was 16 years later. >> Mhm. >> No. Here. So, the trajectory, the direction was that I was going to after the summer, I going to Israel the second year, the first year in Swan Lake. This year I was there when they ever came to camp on the Sunday Teslam and Um and and um after camp I was to go back to toas and go in the evening to Brooklyn like everybody else did. But now said this that's going to be there for one year. I did not intend or expect to rem to change from or to be or to do this more than one year. That was my feelings then. Then my father was very upset and etc etc. And I wrote to the Reba and and then I was in camp. After camp, we stayed for a shabas to clear up the camp and I went and rabbi Shiv, he was very very close to us always our family. Later on the Reb told him uh when the Reb told him that it's when he moved up to a higher position directing the camp, the Reb said it's not his inion. It's not his job to maintain contact with individual parents except for Lou. >> Yeah. >> He said that that that family you got to stay with. So he was very close with my parents. But anyway, he told me a very uh he spoke with me went went for a walk that Friday night dark and he said, "Look, you know that sooner or later you're going to go to it's going to it's going to aggravate you. You're going to regret not taking the move earlier. And that sentence was like the we a whole buildup of all different things. So I wrote to the and I wrote that what my father was concerned about um pandas issue and um I had a friend called Rabbi Israel Rosenfeld of Yeah. I knew him from Turdas had one or two years he was with me in the eighth grade then he was he was a lab but then he was in camp and he told me you come if you come to labavage come to Newark that's where he was studying and we'll learn together so I wrote to the reba all about Newark and this this plan and about my father's apprehensions. So the Reb wrote the following answer. Newark or Montreal Menlik. You go to Newark or Montreal, which I had not mentioned. I didn't know it existed. According to the advice of Rabbi M. Mantik maybe the conversation with your father should be based on the content of the first braha of benching han which speaks and >> that is the one that's Rabbi Khadak when he gave it over this was regular normal practice with when Rabbi Khadakov gave over all in those days and very often he would elaborate and this was obviously >> was common then for the for the the answers to come in the form of not letters. >> It was common then for the answers to come in the form of opposed to letters. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, if you were in New York, if you here you gave it the there was the desk pad in the Americ's office which later was called Mosquito. It used to be called America's office. >> There was a pile of it would pile up in the course of the day and several times in the day the Reb would either buzz in and ask whoever was in the office of the maskeim to bring the letters into him. Sometimes the Reb himself when he came in would walk in and take letters. That's where there was a corner of the of the of the desk pad on that in Rabbi Khadakov's desk. That's where letters to the Reba were piled. And um so and where Rabbi it was obviously that this was what his job was. part of his job was to elaborate on answers of the many it was he was known for saying and to add to the answer of the he wouldn't say a word if it wasn't from the but in my case it was written >> right >> so you have to elaborate >> on it it's said the answer is based on and he said that the rebb told him to say that in the first braha of benching Hashem gives pas to the entire world. That's where the pasa comes from. And he doesn't have to worry about pasa. It's it it comes from Hashem and and uh and and you're not going to, as you say, you're not going to lose out because you follow Hashem's word. It doesn't mean that you can just sit at home when the time comes to work. Go to the mikvah 12. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so that was first this the other part of the answer actually the first part of the answer but Rabbi explained the second part first what you should tell your father. The other part was Newark or Montreal. This was already opening up a whole new thing. Leaving the country, I never I'd never left >> United States. >> I hardly ever went to New Jersey. I was, you know, a Brooklyn boy, that's all. And uh suddenly Montreal, a foreign country is brought up. Um so um and the Reb said, "Ask Rabbi Menlick." So I anticipated you know a grueling searching at least 20 minute for her see where you're holding to know is this yeshiva appropriate or that one so I was thinking about the amra that I had been learning and different things and I went to rabbi mantle it was during the seda in dal in 770 and I introduced myself and I told him the rebba told me to speak with you. I told him the answer. So he said, "What did you write to the Reba?" I said, "I had a plan of going to Newark deliver to Rosenfeld." He said, "Uh, did you mention Montreal in your title?" I said, "No, I didn't even know about it." He said, "Montreal." So the whole interview was maybe 60 seconds. And I I always think maybe the devil wanted to show me what a it is. Mantik was a real real deep >> as opposed to thinking, "Oh, the Reb told me to figure it out, so let me figure it out." No, he just needed to figure out what the Reb really wants. >> That's right. That's right. So that was that was uh then I went to Montreal and that's when I went to and I said I'm asking for um things were pretty tense with my father you know and I had a whole about it early it was four o'clock in the morning invat Gimu and I brought brought this up and the Reb told me one thing was to go back as quickly as possible to Montreal. Don't get into arguments. And the Reb said if you if you are success get the yeshiva in Montreal to write reports from time to time to your father you when he sees your success there college is told didn't just say one year he said he'll see the college is not for you >> that in that >> uh it was a very very powerful every was powerful every single whatever it Because even it was so-called >> was also you were asking the rebba questions. >> Pardon? >> You were asking the rabbi questions about what to do. I think like other people later that experienced they didn't really ask the much. It was more >> Yes, they and also they never tell you sometimes but a lot of them would never asked me questions >> like what >> pun >> like what a lot many many you know there's a famous one where in tough on isakus now the context is it was a Thursday night There were hundreds of people. This was Wednesday was Thursday was Friday night's chabases, the most precious chabas of the year. And was going to sit there the whole night. I was there with a son. My son Penny was 5 years old. Took him I took him to the Reba for sukus. So we went in relatively early. It was probably about 10:00 at night. Um, and I just wrote asking Abra that's all for myself and my family. I didn't I didn't anticipate and I didn't want to keep the rebba and I didn't have any special thing to ask either and um yeah actually it turned out to be one of the longest it's the only I was in I think 29 times but this was the only where the mas opened up the door in the only time and the next night with Friday night before the ever came down it was Rabbi Grona he came it was good friends he said why do you keep I said I didn't I said I wrote one line in my settle I I told him a little bit of what the said he said I thought you're too young for that kind of a thing >> but uh I was 34 that's label growner said >> but what what did the deb say was a few things I'll tell you One thing he told me um he said that I my main work then I was teaching also but my main work was with student and youth and adult education like as I said house and campus type of work. So the Reb said when you go on campuses you will meet female students was heat and garnished who keep nothing of. Now this is tish. It was exactly a month after when the Reb launched the Nabases campaign and um the Reb said they keep nothing but you speak to them about lighting a candle for Shabas on the condition that they light it before sunset. And the Reb said twice in that little part of the holy they will obey the rule not to do after not because of the Reb just said they're talking about people who keep nothing. It won't be because of it'll be because they're honest, >> they're straight and they'll and that will be a condition you make with them so they'll do it. He said tell them if they missed a week better not to light that week and to light after that was one's one part of it and a lot of satellite stories that happened as a result of that sentence of the that another thing there were so many things like he asked me did you hear from soand so lately it's a famous I miss yides about a a certain um communal figure. Now I dealt with ba mainingly with young people. I spoke to you know bene bri adult education groups groups but my main uh the work that I had to initiate was going to youth clubs. There were many in those days. Lady years you didn't have it because you had people, you know, had their own games on their on their devices. But those years there were thousands of young people in in groups on weekday nights and universities especially all the campus I all throughout England. I had I had regular shi yudam weekly in London on Wednesdays for King's College and LSE London School of Economics. Thursdays in University College London and Hill House which was nearby uh Monday in Queen Mary College Tuesdays I used to go to Cambridge one week and Oxford the following week. So that was way traveling and then the other campuses I would I would come either for you know to speak for an evening in Bristol different or in Birmingham or for a Shabbaton Manchester in Scotland even Edinburghough it was my work with with students and um so um what was I holding >> you talking about the You did you did the the work on campus before you went on also in in New York, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. I I started here. I tell you the truth, my first experience was in the winter of Tshin when I was 19 and a half years old and Rabbi Nissen Manguela brilliant is very very brilliant and he was going to downtown Montreal. We were we were in uh Uptown, whatever it was. We were in Park Avenue, a certain Jewish area, but the uh it was one of these big shoes. And there was what they would call today singles or something. It was people in their 20s mainly. This was 1959, 1960. And he asked me to come with him. I was a younger ba several years older than me. about five years older than me. But he asked me to come with him and I did and it was like an hour an hour and a half walk coming back. We probably went by car before Shabas and we were there for and there were hundreds about 200 students and young people and I was fascinated by the questions how he answered it. You know how he respected every question. You know he gave a compliment to every question or elaborated on it. On the way home, we analyzed what had been said and and how, you know, ways of answering questions. That was my first experience. I think >> you also went to Penn State. That that was >> that Penn State was Yeah, but this was I was in Montreal. Okay. >> Penn State was >> You were married already? >> No, >> right before. >> I was 21 years old. >> Okay. 21 and a half and um I was in 770 though those two years and six people went for that chabas. Those were Rabbi Shamv was one and who who are the other the six people >> who organized this thing to go? It was actually Rabbi Binyaman Klene because when he was a baka years before then he was on meas in Texas and in Waco Texas he met a man by the name of Rabbi Goldberg and um interesting person I found out years later that the Reb's mother lived that Rabbi Goldberg's mother lived in Crown Heights and that the Reb's mother had a room in her house in Lincoln place in the early you know when she first came to uh America in Ting at the time of that year she was there anyway. So, Rabbi Goldberg then became the hill rabbi in Penn State and he and Rabbi Klene had maintained like he was a big massuda. Rabbi Klein, he maintained even later years after we were there, he always had contact and the Reb would ask Rabbi Klene, what do you hear from Rabbi Goldberg? It was after Yakov Khaneka was was in this and >> you're talking about after the the >> years later after our Shabaton and and years later and he was aid and he couldn't eat and Rabbi Goldberg's house they ate and Jacob Khan couldn't he was a guy didn't know olive based three years ago and he couldn't eat in his house and he was upset >> Arabic. Yeah. So the Reb asked Mama Klein and when he went in one time he said what's asking with Rabbi Goldberg. So he said he feels bad that this is his can I in his house you know. So the Reb said tell him that it's that all of yanak is his credit. >> Okay. Okay. So now explain why because Rabbi Klein knew Rabbi Goldberg and Rabbi Goldberg >> from from Waco >> made. Yes. He became he was a contact with Rabbi Goldberg. I'm I'm telling you a little bit about Rabbi Goldberg >> because that was the Shabaton and Khan Kaneka became from >> and this went on for every few months would ask him and he would report to the Reb. Then eventually got married and his wife who is of by the way. She was very knowledgeable and uh she was like a bakov graduate type of girl and Rabbi Goldbury had sons and there's no schools there hours away from anything and she was the teacher of Rabba Goldberg's sons and at that time he appreciated what the said that you're going to it's your benefit it's your reward and uh the Reb asked and Yama Klein told this to the Reba and the Reb didn't ask again what how is he doing anyway let's come back so we went there bomb got Yas and his one of his protetim Rabbi Yasul Goldstein Rabbi Maman Khine >> only the men went or was the >> only men went Okay. Rebel Shamiv and myself along and with those four and there were about 300 students people didn't really you know today Orthodox Jews Jews you walk in Manhattan you see people you know and in many various communities including London but then around the world there are pockets of hundreds thousands of and people see it. Then it was like it was like a dream and they they had on the lampost and on the trees they had like a poster with a handle li painting of the dancing and it just said an experience or aidic experience Friday night is in this time hundreds of people came >> so it was just a a wild phenomenon that they wanted to see >> it was like you meet them firsthand we sang with them and we spoke with them and the whole chab is and you know and um at the end and they were very taken two weeks later Rabbi Goldberg invited what what worked out retrospectively this was the first pisha ever there was but it was Mila Rabbi Goldberg took a group of about 15 students for Shabas to New York for Shabas. They came Thursday night. It was arranged and three of the students had um one girl Susan, she was in for maybe at least 45 minutes. And then there was Ronnie Kaplan, another student, and Jako Kaneka, Jack Kanoka, he was no. And they were the two bim were in for over an hour and a half each. And uh look, that's a story in itself. all of these uh gave a first a general um small five 10-minute talk to all of the 15 with the rabbi and he spoke about uh and the rabbi dwelled on two nudis and he spoke in English. One was that a lot of people have a mistaken notion of what chabas is. They see it as a ne they define it by what is forbidden and that's not really what it's about. That that is part of it but that's the byproduct. It's what it is. It's it's the kadusha the spirituality that you gain on shabas. And and the second was the fact that it's it's not any shabis which the essence is and the idea of increasing in holiness. Those were the two of >> Okay. So so you were you were discussing this long that you had. >> Now so what I was saying yeah >> is that my work at that time >> was with young people with students. You ask me how it started, you know. Uh >> I feel like we I feel like we need a a week over here to see till we get until all the information comes out. >> I'm happy to share the information. It's you know I always think I I whenever you make a nephesh where men I heard from him countless times. He told me he lived in London for years is the supposed to be not what I achieved. You have to see what I did, but it has to be focused on what I could have done more than that. >> Mhm. >> And that should be a story. That part I never really excelled in. You how could I what what did I miss? I'll tell you stories what I you know I I tell you the stories I tell are 1% or less of what happened. the people you met and it worked and this happened, that happened, but then there's all those times that you just uh blew it or you just you just sat and read a book on on the plane or you slept or whatever it was. >> Um, so I I I tell these stories I hope it'll help someone else to be able to do the same thing but better. But >> it makes people feel guilty that there was there's always things. Is that a good thing? People should feel guilty. >> Guilt is not a good feeling. It's it's it's you know. >> So what is it? >> People should feel inspired. People should feel u empowered and people should feel you know the only thing that matters is now. the 20-year-old and the 80year-old uh each of them is making a mistake in their general attitude to life. And ironically, they're both making the exact same mistake. The 20-year-old is saying, "I'm young. I got all my options open. Please God, I got energy. I'll have health. I'll have this. I'll have that and I'm going to be able to do this. I have so many choices. Wow. Spoiled for choices. The 80-year-old is living with nostalgia, good things, regret, anxiety, what's next, aches and pains, whatever it is, whatever they they live with, they're both making the same mistake. that took the eye off the ball which is now today you today is a lifetime. You can achieve something today which will last forever. Whether you're 20, whether you're 90, doesn't make a difference. It's it's it's using that day and and that's all exists. Remember Morgans there's no there's no yesterday there's no tomorrow there's just a little bit today so what do you have to worry but he said it's today you you have something you can do so it's not it's not a guilt I I whenever I tell the stories of things that happened which were successful those are the ones I'm going to tell Right. So, uh I say to myself, >> we'll do another podcast with with the failures. We'll do another one. >> Yeah. You can learn them, too. But my point is that because you don't want people to see you as such a great guy because it's false pretenses. So that because of that great um anivos just because you are a modest guy and you don't want to have false pretenses you should deprive them of something because of that that's certainly not on the cards the many letters from the people wrote to the why do you expect me there the most important thing he expected of us was to share with others it's not about your it's about what the wants in the world. It's about and that means it's somebody else helping them. And many many letters of in Hebrew and in English where people wrote feeling that they are not really worthy and not really doing what they should be doing in their own life. And um so why should how can they justifiably speak to someone else hypocrite and almost every time that says two points number one why should that person suffer because you didn't live up to your potential you're missing something but that you're stealing from the another person because of your you know you're adding something. Secondly, by sharing it with someone else, you'll inspire yourself as well. That's the way you'll be able to go some way towards correcting the mistakes you made. >> Omission or commission. >> Okay. Fine. So let let's let's go back to learning from from the stories. So, >> so there Reb told me at that long you it was probably 15 minutes but on that night anything more than a minute. >> Mhm. >> I had of two minutes but that you could write a you know there was something to learn from it. things that the Reb said a oneliner at the end somebody you know went in like fornication a birthday but it went right it penetrated straight to where you were and what you needed the night before the bris of our eldest son the visits from England well those usually connected with other things anyway so let's come back there said have you met have you heard anything didn't say deit have If you heard anything lately from, we'll call him Mr. X, a communal dealer. I was dealing with students mostly, adult. I knew him, you know, and he probably knew me, but uh it wasn't my normal field of work. But it happened to be that I met Rabbi Bernhard, Rabbi Nakman Bernhard from South Africa. It was before he was a kabatnik himself, but he was very very much the reb person. He saw the Reb as the leader as the Mosha of their generation and I knew him well from South Africa for my visits there. I was there twice by then. >> Before you were in England? >> No, I when I was in England, I was sent in in three years later and in Alf. >> There's no there. No, that that's a whole story in itself because they asked me to come to and South Africa is a different I have a very special closeness with South Africa and with Rabbi Lipka and the whole yeah very very >> okay so >> but let let's come back to here >> so theb said have you heard heard from him. I said, I met Rabbi Bernhard and he told me that he met him and for breakfast. He was in England as some official person, you know, and that this person was I I said it in Yiddish. He strongly criticized the Reba about Miu Yehudi. Actually, it was very much strong. What Rabbi Bernard told me was that the man was so vehement in his criticism of the Reba that he saw there's no point to even try to, you know, to try to convince him that he's wrong. And uh so what he did was he made a he said he said I don't agree with you at all and let's change the subject. He just didn't discuss it. That's what he told me. I think I told that to the as well. So the said to me, do you know why he said that? Which is remember to come to me. I was 30. >> This person was a person of influence. >> He was >> Yeah. Okay. and and he he was a person who had made a statement. I'll tell you a little background which was not directly said. He had made a statement or written an article in some somewhere that is not such a problem. >> Mhm. It's a diversion of energy or whatever. He belittled it. And the Reb in probably said something which was not you know but that's what the Reb said to me. Do you know why he said that? It's because somebody told him about me about the Reb or maybe even the difference between lashes is a negative aspect of a person which is true. You're still not allowed to say it just because it's true. That's what the isra is slander. It's it's a lie. It's not even true. So say he says something which is maybe even and namely that I attacked him in public and that's why he's seething inside of him. And um then the Reb said a sentence mention I don't speak about people I speak about ideas in other words if theb said something which didn't agree with him is not going to compromise his idea obviously but the is not it's never a personal attack it's never it's never about the person he never said somebody said and therefore the Reb spoke about and I something which which which contradicted what he said and then somebody told him and and as the Reb is saying it I'm standing like a soldier at the by the and I'm listening to this and in in the next split second in my mind I had a an insight an inspiration that this man who's talking now is the greatest leader, the greatest saddic, the greatest, the greatest teacher, the greatest mak, the greatest, the greatest builder of monsters, the greatest publisher of works of previous generations. Well, one of the greatest of the whole 20th century. Think of this form that ever gave out besides those that he inspired people to give out. And and and you know this all in a split second but at the end of the day he is your personal best friend and that you can say about everybody in the world. anyone comes to the reba is to him totally his whole essence is given over to that person and therefore this all in a split second when you get back to London you're going to get a meeting with Mr. X by hook or by crook. >> You're thinking this. >> I'm thinking this in a it's a second all the whole thing was in a second. >> And as I'm thinking it is, it's not a good idea for you to go to him and tell him that I said this. And as I'm thinking that, I must admit I was like a bit of a wise guy. In my own mind, I said to myself, I'll ask Rabbi Vogle. Ra Vogel was very close with this person and I'll speak with him and I'll tell him he should go and and set this man straight you know whatever and as I'm thinking that a second later says it's not a good idea if you ask a fellow to go to him and the said if the man came to me personally I could I could straighten him out himself I could I could explain it to him. It's not to you. It's not for someone else of an why said there were 63 mitzvah in the toy. Miu Yehudi who is a Jew is one of them. If this person does not want to cooperate with oni, let's work with him on the other 612. And I consider that to this day as a oneline lesson direction and directive in life in everything in in parenting in marriage in business in in in just socializing. You have a choice of seeing a person. You don't have to compromise your values, but you see where you agree with the other person and work together to build something with that joint agreement. This is the premise that we learned from the Reb on how how we're and how we every single Yid because this is the premise they're doing mitzvah that that that they can or they're not doing that one mitzvah that they can't. >> Yeah. Yeah. And Deb said explicitly, Rabbi Greenvald, he was when he was when they when Kabat first came there in in the late and the and in the especially they went to all the kibbutim. The people in the kibbutim were from Russia. A lot of them they came from similar millure, similar society. And they but they had you know jettisoned a lot and uh he would go and speak about and what unites us and sing and you know be them and the many of the other would criticize him. >> Yeah. the about people. They were Russian. They said, he said, you know, you're being too soft and too pussyooting with them, you know, tell them like it is. Tell them, you know, just tell them off. And he so he he he felt that that's not going to be an effective way but he look he heard it so much that next time he was in he mentioned it to the Reba my grand my daughter is married to his grandson. At that time he told me this story. He said at the time he said that um the Reb said to him if you tell them that in Yiddish if you tell them that you're going to create a barrier a wall between you and them. He said you you go and you build on the good. That's that's the only way to work with a person doesn't mean compromising your values or not saying here's what I hold but you you're not out there to criticize you're there to get the person where you are holding there's something you can do is brought to you by we live in a chaotic world a world where for us we do not have the ability to hear and see the reb on a daily basis. Yet we know that theb is very much with us and is alive and thriving more than ever before. 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Barakashem, it takes a lot of resources and finances to make this all happen. You can be part of their through your financial support as well through visiting our website.org or through contacting us to setting up a meeting. Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of the podcast. So, let's go back to um I think in the chronological place where we were holding, you're you're in Montreal, then you came over to 770. So, how did how did you how did you come over to 770? >> Actually, that's a very very important question. I didn't know how I can ever get it happen. >> You were stuck in Montreal. >> I was Yeah, exactly. And I loved the Reba. Everyone does, but I love being in the Reb's presence. I love being bad. It was less you know Davening but whatever it was thinking even when I was here already or before when I came in just for a while the fabian was like you're in Grenaden you can see it you can get a taste of it from the videos today if a person really wants and you focus on it if it means something to you you know allow it to happen instead of anal people today some people analyze themselves am I feeling it enough you know just get into the whole thing. But then >> your son your sons >> Yasi on the podcast was discussing this that through a video you can feel it. >> Yeah. Well, Yasi himself gave a talk somewhere abroad about. >> Yes. He spoke about this in the podcast how he >> and then somebody told him you know what are you telling us? We didn't see it. He says I was six years old then. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. He did a lot of he when the things that he made and his articles he asked first as can I know her a brilliant memory >> and he's putting it into book he said yeah >> so but you're you're saying that when you're in Montreal you wanted >> you want to be with the reb saying every time you're by the >> yeah yeah in Montreal you are entitled so-called to go in the yeshiv is to go in with a bus or with with hired a train carriage a car of the train four times a year and pes and tamuz and tish. Those are the four times you went in. Besides that, you need a special permission to come. Even those times you were not allowed to go unless you had a special paper signed by the >> anhal and you had to be in order to get that paper a you had to behead in and b while you were here in New York you had to be forhead in I remember because I used to be I was four years there would and Rabbi Mantleik in Nigla and if Aba came and he asked Rabbi Khadakov going to or something he said who is thine passport where's your passport um I have somewhere like a blank like of that form there was a form of that um I didn't know you know I had in my mind the reb was concerned. I don't know because I had um I wasn't writing to the but but you know there was there was tensions probably I I wasn't in New York that much and my mother wrote every week and every every couple of months or so my father would write a couple of lines. Yeah. He was like, you know, >> I could one of my biggest regrets in life. I could have handled him like like it would have been the smoothest thing in the world. You need a little bit and a little bit of experience. Anyway, by the way, he was a very very a man of incredible integrity. He was moish for Shabas Mameish in a way that you know people wouldn't wouldn't know. There's stories about him at the university when he was he didn't take exams. They took a chabas and people uh denounced him to the people who had to give him his qualification >> right >> and he stood his ground. But now when we were getting married, which is now just almost to the day, 62 years ago. Uh yeah, which was Tesv Thomas. >> You're talking about how you got to 770 first. >> I'll tell you about my father and then we come and and and then you'll understand. >> Okay. >> Why why I thought I thought it's because of my relationship with the father. My father, the Reb felt that not being the whole time together, >> right? >> Because he he did tell me leave as soon as you can. By the way, he I told him I told the Reb I'll come back to that about about I wanted to get my father to go into and uh the Reb said he explained to me the spoke to me even though I was already in he was calling me do but he was explaining things to me 4:00 in the morning to a a boy who was under 18 years of age. He said when you ask someone to go visit someone privately it's not usually the done thing. He says tell them to come to midb sitting there with beards without beards and he'll hear a little bit of what's spoken that will have some effect and the reb suggested that I should get he says it's too early to do it now but for purim this was so six weeks is going to be >> Pimai >> in advance said get him to he said asked me who is close with him who does he know here and he asked if he knew wise didn't he I said the person he knows the best is a shiv so theb told me asked a to arrange and to arrange a the first thing the rebba said was arrange a lift a a a ride. My father never drove. I don't know if they ever knew this. But he said, "Arange a a lift for him to come to that Fabian and he'll be there and he'll hear a little we speak that's going to be have an effect and Rabbi Shivita and arranged with Yanka Winter he went to my father. He used to which was you know he my my father liked him very much. We talk with him in Russian you know he he liked the whole idea of him from the camps he was in the summer camp two of my brothers had the bait mitzvah in camp. So my father had been there and when Araml said would you like to come to the Puran? So my the first thing my father said was will you send me it's a Russian word he knew he could speak to coach >> the first thing said was get him a lift get someone to take him the first thing my father said to was >> are you going to send me >> and then he came to was there for maybe an hour told him I think if you listen on the tape you can hear tell Mr. was here and then which is another six weeks after you know it's it's 10 weeks after a kid of 18 years old was in your I went over for about one of the last people maybe 1 2:00 in the morning and asked me did your father tell over anything from Puressa Anyway, so uh like kept kept kept account kept account of it >> later when we were getting married five years later invas and the was going to officiate. So my father >> that's a whole another story in itself. >> Yeah. Yeah. But my father part of that story is my father he the massage of his son's wedding he has to go see him. So he went into with my mother on hey Tamuz Thursday night 10. So he didn't go in as part of the officially his pretext for going to the is because is is in the edition. Yeah. But by that time he had he been to that he had been to the fellow >> and as well. >> Mhm. >> We had for the fellas. So I mean you by that time it was like smooth running. It was not me, >> right? >> So I did something I never did before or after which is um when my parents were going into that night. Hey Thomas, I walked in and I introduced them. >> It was it wasn't the of Kala. >> Uh I went in with my kala separately that night. that was a separate but when my parents came it might have been before I came as I don't remember if it was before or after I went with my kala but we opened the door I opened the door and I walked in and I said this is my father and mother or this is my these are my parents and I withdrew and closed the door but as soon as I said this the stood up and walked around the table and gave him shalik So my father said to the in Yiddish I don't think that I deserve this recognition this covered because when my son was in your yeshiva the first three years I was not happy about it. My father was like very straight person. So said what do you say today? He says today I'm happy. So says let's talk about today. >> That's that's what come now. How did I get to go to 70 inshinf after having been four years in Montreal? four beautiful beautiful years which I you know in in in the wrong way but I wanted to I want to be in summer 70 and um I spoke I didn't write in it settle this I spoke with Rabbi asked him to present to the rebba that uh my brothers is we're going to camp Gasro and I think I can have a positive effect on them if I'm in the camp and uh so he asked the said if you feel it then go to the camp at the end of camp the end of the summer I told that if I learn in summer I will be able to have a career learn with my brother was going to college I think I don't remember if exactly when if it was he was going to the evening college and uh and I didn't again I didn't write this this I asked orally through Rabbi Khadakov and the Reb answered if you can if you if you if you're going to if brother with you stay in se 70 that's how I the I was in in summer 70 I got engaged at the end of that's a story in itself and then I I was a full year. So I was in summer 70 and then I was in that four special years. I mean you know all the years all the visits the tish and the whatever it was these were these were you know powerful moments. I remember the after Shabas Fabian with the hot summer days and you walk out and going home whether it's in yeshiva and co and crown heights was majority of like you know modern orthodox auda style people were walking going foratia chabas afternoon you're going home it's 5:00 you're just going home for suda shabis and I I used to How can there was such a light, such a powerful gilly taking place? How could a person just be next door in a manner of speaking and and not to uh go in? Um years later I went to Russia and I met the guy you know I met people who were from Libavich but from litish kind of I realized there was a community there there was non-religious which is known but it was also like religious like a man told me battle tob was his name I met him in Moscow and the old used to call him nag So one private moment while we were there over I said to him how are you? Where are you from? He said I was born. So I says why did they call you? He said >> he said I went toic school. So there was another you know >> it's existed before >> I I didn't even I was thinking when I was in Crown Heights you you know it to our feeling the whole universe was there was changing the world every word that the reb was saying every was an experience if things happening And I say it's accessible to people today as well and the people who experienced it also. You know you can you can have withdrawal symptoms or you can just some sometimes it just you know it it gets in the back of your memory but it was something and it was something effective in the world. It would it it it change things. If you allow it, if you surrender oneself to hearing what the Reb is saying, then one thing you know, you're going to be doing you're a you're going to access your own inner self and b you be doing more of what you should be doing than you otherwise would. So I I heard someone mentioned that Benashem wrote a letter to your um to to your mother-in-law that he never saw the be as in as much as he was with yours. You agree with that uh statement? I don't know what happened. And I I'll tell you something that um that letter he he wrote in his own handwriting >> in English. >> He wrote he writes I have it I have I sent it to all our kids you know I kept it all the years. It was to my father-in-law and mother-in-law >> and he z and Rosalin he said dear and uh he said I want to speak from my heart and that's why I'm writing in English. I want he wanted to speak to them. He spoke English bench. >> Well, you see he wrote there. It's what you know very that's an at one time I had to go I was invited to speak to the Kabad in Israel. It's about 50 years ago. >> Mhm. >> In the summer I wasn't there's no school anyway then. And I asked through the mosque. I asked orally again asked should I accept the invitation? And the answer was if you can speak Hebrew in a way they should understand it, accept it. Didn't it didn't work out then. But now I've been to Israel many many times when or in Zoom over the last few years uh given Fabbranians or talks. Um I always think of that answer. The Reb didn't say if you are grammatically correct or if you have nice uh uh words or or poetic. He said if they will understand in other words the main object of abran is the it's what it's what you're saying. Will they understand what you're saying? That was the question. Mhm. >> And uh Rabbi Beni Shiff wrote, "You could clearly understand his English." You clearly understand it. And what he wrote was, "In my 43 years in Labavage, I never saw one of the Rayan push." I think the word he used was pushed uh like this one. Now um he also told me Ben. >> You knew him from here from New York. >> But >> you knew him here in New York. >> Where Ben? I knew I I knew his sons. He was a known a known figure, you know. >> Yeah. But um he told me that he met the Rebana's mother in the street the day after aid was on a Wednesday. We met Amati Shabas the first time I was a assistant head counselor in Ghana Israel. I went back to Swan Lake. >> That was the first interaction you had with the Reba's mother after the shik. >> I >> Yeah. No, I I mean you know I mean everyone know she used to come to Fabbrang and she came to Daving. I don't remember when the actual first time. It could be when I came back from England when I had a direct but I would with her dozens of times met her in the street. she would stop and say something very relevant or she would sit in the front of 1418 president where she lived like in the summer when it's very warm and if you went by she'd said no she'd ask you something about your wife has this is that whatever um but she met Rabbi and and he said that she told him they told me that you have become a whole shak. Uh that was the day after I think which was it was one year minus a day before our wedding. Um yeah so that was >> so the bench made the >> it's it there were different factors the I mean the first factor was yeah you people were you know at that time and I I I was I was in heaven. >> Mhm. I I didn't need anything that was that was grenaden for me just being by the rebba every day and but anytime any came they usually came to my parents to my mother sham and she would speak to my sister who know what you know I did didn't come to me this one Rabbi Layma Minkowitz whose birthday was yesterday he was of Rabbi Aram Jaffy, my brother-in-law, my wife's brother, only brother surviving, and he went for a walk with me on Lak Buma and suggested the idea. What happened was his brother his had been home for Pes and he said to lay just as as a just asking for advice he says I was home for Pes and my sister is a very person and it it and it was England in those days there's no you know the he says she needs a complete total that could be acceptable to my parents or whatever. And so lay mention my name. He had been with me on a pula in Long Island, a wedding in Long Island. And there was a woman that challenged us about being from or about beliefs and stuff. I don't remember what it was even a middle-aged woman probably Yiddish woman like a certain a certain type and I answered her but at the end she said what makes you so sure of yourself and Alma was very impressed with with her saying that >> right >> so he told this and then he went for a walk with me on was like that year and he told me about this world would you consider it as I said look whatever comes up I would give it to my to my mother I said but that's the first thing I said so she know what you know we're you know that was the beginning of it so that was the background officially went through David dokin in those days so he's the one that I spoke to directly but Ben Shmp was really was he was orchestrating the whole thing and um um yeah and my in-laws were not that happy. My wife was only 18 years old when we met which we married a year later she was 19. >> So um >> those days it was common to have long those days it was common to have long engagements. No, not the Reb was always against long engagement. >> Why do you have a long engagement? >> The Reba says, "Wait till something." That's a whole story. That is a whole story with letters from the Reb when they wrote my father-in-law. Let's we'll come back to that. Why was such a long engagement, but I could also explain it in terms of the norm at that time. Um, don't forget she was 18 years old. She was a teenage bride. even at waiting a year, she was only 19. Anyway, um my in-laws even though they were looking for her different what what was available in Manchester be from person they were from people but you know there was no question there was no labav in Manchester that I know of. Um, so they were a little bit worried about it. Betsy Shmp spoke with them. My wife meanwhile went to the the Detroit camp where the fellas were. My sister actually was there and she was coming back about five days, six days. She was coming back for Shabas and they were traveling back to England on Wednesday on a flight. So my in-laws, my mother-in-law especially was holding things back. So she said, "Okay, you can meet a M Shabas 3 days before they're traveling. So worst times you meet someone if you're interested you know come to England in in in the winter or something they write to each other you know that type of arrangement you know months and and writing and meeting nowadays you say zoom WhatsApp so we met and they were staying by men that's that was their place where they used to stay on Avenue >> and you wrote to the reb about meeting Obviously what um no I wrote to I was in camp I was a sister I wrote I asked >> should I take an interest in and there made an arrow with the which crossed out meant and whether that particular person was arranged will meet Mati Shabas. So I came in for Shabas. It was your basis and um um I I came in just before Shabas. I was in camp the whole time was you know and Mati Shabis it was arranged that we're going to meet at 10:00 at night. It's middle of the summer. >> Mhm. Tom was at uh we're going to meet at Albany and pre and president at 1000 p.m. and my brother-in-law is going to take us to the Staten Island Ferry and I had nothing. I was shaved dick. So he gave me his watch and the $10 bill expenses and he dropped us off by the ferry and we went, we talked whatever, you know, and we we took the ferry back and then took a taxi for that $10 in those days was worth like a $100 today probably. And uh got back about 1 in the morning to the house to Melmpton's house. My mother-in-law says that's I'm coming back one o'clock in the morning or whatever. But uh that was the first meeting. Sunday was the Reb's major the big the weekday for and the Reb said the then about is the whole story with and the interpretation fascinating beautiful tells what it tells you what is about also >> and Monday it was arranged I'm going back to camp. As I said, I was the assistant head counselor. I did things there, but we're going to meet we'll meet for one minute. Uh >> your assistant. >> No, Sunday we didn't meet. Sunday we didn't meet my and I because it was the Monday before I go to the bus to Port Authority to go back to Gany, we'll meet for half hour at Mandel Shmp's house, which we did. And then I went back to camp and on Tuesday I get a phone call. I don't remember from whom that I have to come in very urgently. What happened was on Monday the Reb said that he wanted to meet my in-laws. My mother-in-law was not well, but my father-in-law went into and went in and the Reb said, "I was thinking about two possible dates, you know, either or or or or June >> said for engagement." So he said, "We don't even know him." Yeah, this is we that's met 48 hours before. Uh he said, "What's he going to do for a living?" That's he asked. So, >> it was the day after that >> lamp lighter. >> He'll be a lamp lighter. Yeah. So, um and then he asked he said, "Oh, no. This not the other." Like that. It was like a a major a major shock. So they gave a message to someone that they wanted to meet me. So the next day, Tuesday, I came back in in in uh >> You have no idea what's going on. >> Who >> you then? You don't know what the deba said. >> I don't have an idea now. 63 years later. Oh, I was in camp. They told me you get engaged. You're engaged. You married. Anyway, so I um looked you had people did a lot of homework, you know, even in Tambodas. So um I came in together within we actually born the same day. He was also coming in for so we compared notes and um Tuesday was at and uh so we waited till after Maid and then Mash was there also Ding with minion MV and then we went to we walked to Lefort Avenue to meet uh and then because the next day Wednesday The plane was going back. It was a chartered flight which my father-in-law was the one who actually arranged it. So the next day it was going back. So it had to be done that night to meet. So we walked back and I said nice you know I said look you know nice meeting you. Whatever is going to happen in the end all all nice people. And uh I spent maybe 10 or 15 minutes at Mendel Shmp's house upstairs there with you know meeting them and saying hello and I don't always remember anything that was said and they said go for a walk together. You can imagine a boy in the middle of Crown Heights and we walked for about maybe you know a total of maybe a half hour but we walked down uh connectity or Troy and went into Carol this one person that we bumped into it was a boy about 12 years old Mosha >> Katlosski he was a mine from the day I ever met him he was a very I met him in Kang Gang as well when he was about seven years old and he was a I said who is this kid I asked the people there I was I didn't know him anything about him cuz he was he was there in the office and he was in the youngest bunk I think or you so young seven eight year old kid and he's telling them what they how they should be doing whatever they're running how they should run it differently and you could see that he you know somebody with >> anyway So, and and then I went back to uh oh that Wednesday morning Rabbi Khadakov called me in and he said that said that you have to finish it today. Their plan was now you've met two three times you go you you know you know each other a little bit but that's not a you know and it's over three days. So what you're going to do is you write to each other and then maybe come to England in the it's November, December and you get engaged if it's if everything's going good and they talk about a wedding, you know, more like a more conventional type of thing and Rabadin and he says says you got to finish it today. um one way or the other this is it. So I said in four words I said it's something depends on others not just my decision. So he said the s of a is that a couple meets and if they see that there's something there each other's parents and if they agree as well you write to the fora. So, in other words, you've met, you see if she's if if you're willing and she's willing. this all had to be done within an hour or two and and um and then you asked for so I went to Mendle Shmpton's house and I spoke to my soon to be Kala who I never called by name anyway because I was in Ara took us to the Staten Island of Ferim But he said he introduced us. She said, "This is my sister and this is Mindy's brother." That's how we went with no names. So anyway, and we so we talked and decided spend the rest of your life together and uh we asked her that I told her what you know say what do you think and this that the other and we had already spoken about main main things about different different ideas besides you know many other things camp she was very active in camp in England over those couple of And then um the parents met. My father was at a business meeting. He couldn't even come that afternoon. He came later on. He was there by the but my I think my uncle my grandmother came and met. We met in the mil restaurant the parents uh >> on Kingston Avenue. Kingston Avenue which is now the drug store. It's was owned by Spritzer >> when he asked the Reb he should buy it the Reb asked him is it suitable for a V or a mitzvah and he said yes. Now in the whole history of that restaurant, the nearest thing to avoid was his own son's mitzvah was there. >> Anyway, um so we met there. I think my uncle came with my mother instead of my father and uh my mother's brother. Oh yeah, one second. So Rabbakov told me the sad will be she's going to go into because there was in the afternoon in those days for the guests from England just before they take the buses back to the airport to go back a minute a two minutes. So Rabbi said she'll be able to go in with guests from England and uh you write at settle and I'll take it in between two. I said maybe I can go in. He says no you're not you're not a visitor from England. That's for visitors from England. So I I had to give it in but I got the mileer of getting an answer right and I write it any time there's any engagement and I have chance time to write it I write those are the words and um she went in and uh it was the f it was the first time in her life that she was in alone. She always went in only with her parents. She was 18 then. And she went in she said told me she said that she told her I made up my mind. She didn't say what the said he's a very good baka this that whatever told her good things and Ben Shiv was in anticipating everything. He pulled out of his pocket a butler mashka and he pulled out of another pocket small klesk little shot glasses and he was giving to people around there 70 somebody came in bomb and came said what's going on here and they says you know it was just an engagement then we went to the airport and so we had I had a little conversation off there while they're waiting for the plane. Then we came back. I think it was all the coaches. We went came back to 770 that night. But when when we were when the coach was going away, the reb was smiling very very powerfully. And my mother-in-law Allah Shalom, Mrs. Jaffy, Mrs. told my mother in England we don't do it like this. It's not even been in the Jewish Chronicle. Did you announce it in the paper? She It's not even been the Jewish Chronicle. I didn't give her a ring. That's what she said. So my mother said, "I got news for you. We don't do it like that in New York either." He said, "This is exceptional." And that night my father my father came a bit later. He wasn't there when we met and at my that night when the Reba came in he gave a very big mama his whole face was illuminated smile to my father. Um, so that was the Shiva. >> So why was it a year? >> And now why was it a year? My father-in-law said to the Reba that asking the Reb when should the wedding take place? Uh, if the rebad kadushin, we'll wait till next summer when the planes come into America. And if not, we'll make it in England in the winter. So, um, on that there was a correspondence with several letters, some sharp, a little bit sharp. Um, >> didn't the stop stop being? >> Yeah, he already stopped basically. There were maybe four exceptions, I think. >> So, but your father-in-law knew that your father-in-law knew that there's going to be an exception. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But yeah, but that year itself in there was an exception. Mhm. >> Um it was an exception, right? Um what happened was uh the Reb said when he wrote to the Reb, should it be in the winter in England with not being tradition or in the summer being tradition? So the Reb said the time and place of a wedding is decided by theim and uh in this case I don't see what's the rush since Mrs. Dafi feels that he's young and um the it'll give the time to complete his studies better to wait till the summer. So that that would look like saying okay now he wrote he connected the two as conditional if the rebution will be in the summer but then say as far as concerned a relative got married recently a few weeks ago a few months ago is a relative and the was a ro of an who >> I don't know we try to work out I don't know who it And there weren't that many weddings in those days. Was not such a crowd. >> And um uh it was back and forth. My father-in-law wrote one letter very very sharp saying what do you have against me and my wife just because I don't have a beard and my wife doesn't wear shait she'd wear hat you and they are they are 100% yours they'll go wherever they ever sends them whether he said you know and uh he sent the letter off he hadn't made a copy he used to make copy all diaries were based on letters he sent to the deba and my mother-in-law saw the letter and she said it's it's too sharp whatever he wrote like and she's made him write the next day an apology letter. >> Mhm. But um uh we didn't have any now a bit of background which I believe if people say what's the reason you can't underb to try to understand you can't understand and if you do understand I promise you it's not the whole story it says in that the time in whatever time it gives whatever reason it gives lives there's something deeper as well deeper but I I want to give a bit of background when my father-in-law was being in this it was through a tragedy they he came from but they knew meant so he told me those two things >> they we just had an article in exploring the story >> that's right yeah recently >> how your father-in-law >> Yeah yeah yeah And um so um so that's that was that was the connection but he became closer and the Reb told him to become active in the Manchester Bethden. It's like uh it's like the Va that's what it's called. >> Mhm. and he got involved and the Reb told him to work on making peace between that Manchester and it's it was a whole board like it was a whole v and the which was like the and there was a lot of tension between and he succeeded in that they had peace and they had coexistence mach is a very firm bas. It's a good ha and and um but he made that peace between them and he he in order to do that he was active and eventually he was elected the president of the it was called the Manchester board that's what it was called and he was the president he he made a charted flight and brought the wedding over to New York in the hope and anticipation But there was no confirmation that there was going to be and the wedding invitations there was going to be a on Thursday the was on Sunday and on Thursday you test there was going to be a for the public. So the invitation to the was it was over 300 people there. It was a big like a wedding with a mitz with everything. Um but when he came to New York, it was a Sunday and he would always have a as soon as they arrived and then he would have a longer while they were here like this time would be and one before they left. So when he went in ones that Sunday, my father-in-law said to the um you don't have to answer me now, but you must be he said there's no he said I cannot justify I'm the president of the board of deputies of the of the board and there's no way I can justify it's a patch and punish to the whole that I took the wedding out of that city. The only justification would be because there was going to be never didn't answer but he smiled. That was Sunday. Hey Tom, my wife and I went in. Never told him what to learn the things to learn before the wedding. There was 10 days that were left. The Reb asked me when are you going to the oil? Uh before I said I'm going I said I go everyone used to go the the whole went to the oil three times a year >> and those are the three times everybody went with buses and everything. So I said I'll go I'll go with everybody but is to go on on the and he said yes and um and then the rebba asked me why is the ka the was supposed to be 7:30 at night or something 8:00 at night late why is it so late is the hall not available before so I said why that wasn't part of the arrangement anyway. So, I'll speak with your future father-in-law about it. And uh when my father-in-law went in later on, so the told asked why is the so late on the to fast so long. So my said if you don't mind fasting for two weeks it's not necessary. He told him to make it earlier at at 5:00. I I it could be because on the original invitation it said at 5ish anyway in the Hebrew one >> in the Hebrew side. I don't know that's again speculating on the reason but the of course when the wrote he underlined five underlined 5:00 sharp and it's interesting because the Reb did not was at the oil on the day of the wedding and it was 3:15 and the Reb was not back yet from the oil and there would always be Ma before it was 4:00 And said they say the ma at the at the cabal pum which was in >> sea said he's gonna sign the condition said >> that you had to send out a a new invitation >> right >> to everybody about the change of time and venue of the and the said it should not mention his name the's name on that and you should not take it to the printer there was no quick print and all these things that you have today home, you know, homemade. You had to go to Rabbi. He did a very, very, very big favor because he had jobs. And the Reb said, "We're not allowed to go to him before Thursday." That's Sunday is the wedding. So, you have to print a revised invitation and send it out. It should reach everybody in New York and in wherever it is before Shabas. They should know not to come to the Koopa in Glendale Jewish Center at at 7:00 at night. >> Right. So you're waiting and >> we had a a separate panim and >> we are pleased to tell you of the following changes. So, so back to the so it's the cabal and your father-in-law says >> December 70 and then so it was already 4:00 4 and my say everything went on it's all on tape by the way they made a tape my brother-in-law made tape even of the and it was then about a quarter to 5 and said to Rabbi Khadak we have to go and he Rabbi Khadak Reb is not back from the oil and when he comes back it's unprecedented that the Reb should have a before the first thing the Reb does when he comes back is he comes back from the oil my father-in-law said the Reb said 5:00 and he underlined it twice I think about 5 to 5 or 4 minutes to Rabbi Krinsky drives up with the car quickly parks. The goes out and the meanwhile everyone the is set up and everyone's ready ready you know everything's all set to start and Rabbi and the Reb told we the is first and it was started >> 459 and 60 seconds >> exactly exactly >> it's interesting because 7 minutes after the ended it was a beautiful sunny day. There was a downpour which lasted for about maybe a half hour. >> Mhm. just after the >> and uh so the said on Wednesday night there was a Tom getting married near Montreal and um it there's so many different things mixed together here and he had wanted that but he had no father there was his mother. Now he was they were in Yehiddis the same night because the wedding was going to be there was no Yehis until then probably on uh on on it was going to be on Jud Alfam Wednesday four days before our wedding and the Kala was a Burough Park girl and they the they had there was a brother who was a little bit like like a little bit uh like going his own way. And they asked the reba what to do. And the rebba said, "Invite to the wedding and introduce him to your son and tell him that's me to invite that son Kala's brother to my wedding on Sunday." >> Uhhuh. >> And uh which which I did and they did. It was, you know, it was there's so many sensitivities involved here, >> right? >> And I and so we were at and and Labour was at my wedding. They when they picked me up on the shoulders, they pick him up also to at the wedding, >> right? >> And he made at our wedding uh labor and and in the wedding pictures is that Bak that brother, you know, but the Reb said you can you're not going to I went to Rabbi Mustam and he said I said the Reb said what and he did it. I I you know he he he was 100% in his rights to say >> yeah you can't >> I have you know I have a got a whole backlog here >> and he didn't >> okay so we can continue talking the whole day and night for many days >> so much more you can go down the avenue of each of these things >> but I want to uh no I want to conclude that I mean the rebba had so much I would call it investment so much >> investment in you and your and what what does that mean for you and what does it mean for all the that that that hear about it? What what do you think? I mean this is very you know here is I had which haunts me in like when Deb told me off for not learning as I could in the wasting you know I don't remember how he how he got on to the top by the way whenever I was in with my wife in those days the Reb would speak in English. There were two exceptions. One was this one I'm going to tell you about and one was the night before we went on but um the would speak in English exclusive to my wife. Sometimes he asked something and I would answer in Yiddish and Deb would trans. go since you said he would translate what I said into English for the benefit of my wife. But here the Reb spoke only in Yiddish and told me off very strongly and uh he said he said I promised your father that you're going to become this that you know I don't remember all the different things that you're going to be and said that was the third time when the told me it depends on you so I can only promise which is an interesting sentence what do you mean I can only promise ifever promises but the is never taken away. You have to remember at the end of the day your life is yours. the the the got the whole it's about what you do and those are there if you don't ignore him and uh the said these words I can only promise in other words depends what you're going to do with it it's not it's not just a once off by the way it's your whole life every Today there are probably several or countless opportunities in everyone's life where you have to make a choice and all and get the but can manage can promise and can give it but he's promising that you have that potential live and I I was in a state of shock In fact, when soon we came out of my wife says, "What was he talking about in Yiddish there?" So I said, "He's telling me that I'm not learning." >> There was a report that you weren't learning. What? There was a report that you weren't learning. >> Was it the >> was somebody reported to obviously? >> Yeah. >> You didn't have to be a genius, you know. Mhm. >> Anyway, so and and I just stood, you know, I don't know what what what I should have said, but the Reb said, he told me, "Your silence will achieve nothing." Those are the words. And it was about 40 years before I ever even told over that story. That's from the you know I I got a whole podcast >> of of which which which which I I don't take at first choice what to say but you ask what do you feel when I'm when I'm when I'm feeling the way I should be feeling and not interesting told me after and he was in yeshiva in London and he was I was there and he told me to speak in English I should speak for in front of me in I couldn't and he he told me off really very very sharp then but then I met him privately a few days later and he said now is a time that you don't hear the Reb's voice we have to talk we have to be the Reb's voice You've got to, you know, you got to talk to what I do when I'm doing what I think I'm supposed to be doing is to try to share even though it's sometimes they're very personal and and and intimate memories and recollections, but I feel that let somebody else take it and run with it and and and uh use it. So whatever any no one could live up the was perfect asb look among no vacation no predictable it was close he like there's a about about said that they have a in the in the past I know that they have a a share in the and he told don't take it why does they have a share it had to be given over and that's knows that besides the community each individual has a role they can play and each individual should play that role and should be doing what they're supposed to be doing and and uh so I feel that by sharing the positive focusing on the 612 that whatever's near I can help other people I can't think around you I'm not uh uh the consequence is not what's important. The important thing is what can I do today? This is this is my lifetime. And if I can do something which can help somebody to be what they're supposed to be, that's what I'm supposed to do. And that somebody it's not just me. I'm I'm in of high school kids. I tell that to 13 year olds and 12 year olds and 15. They said I have a sibling who's this that. I said your behavior can make a difference. Every person, you know, by taking themselves seriously in in a in a good in a happy way can feel empowered and can really make a difference to that and and that's how we bring Mashiach. It's like step by step the pieces are falling into place with all the problems with all the issues outside and inside whatever one can see that things are happening. We don't have to write the whole script exactly how and when and what but it's happening and that's how we're bringing Mashiach. Thank you very much. [Music]