Why Is There No Maseches Chanukah | The Chanukah Omission

foreign [Music] for this special episode Hanukkah is coming up in a couple days people will be listening this on Hanukkah and we want to discuss the Hanukkah Omission no there isn't a special small kind of tape on this topic that I know of but this is something which is discussed for many hundreds of years why is there no sectors Hanukkah so this episode you probably can make a straightforward because we will discuss some real Torah topics it's not just gonna be history but a lot of history a lot is foreign and learning about new people like we do all the time right how are you today okay so you could Dive Right In why is there no masectus chanukkah okay so first like this I'd like to talk about this topic as relates to Hanukkah now as normally it's a topic that's spoken about Hanukkah has a crazy amount of literature like all other constantly new works are being published every year even this year I fell into this particular I fell into the rabbit hole of Hanukkah many years ago and the rabbit hole of this topic and I have not come out at one point I was even hoping to publish a safer about it I still hope to but we're still in progress today I would like to present some of the materials I've discovered over the years I can bore you with all the materials I have some rahmanas okay now the general topic is the is the omission of Hanukkah in various early sources specifically in the mishnais where there's no masakta devoted to the subject although as Point people point that sprinkled in different places there's some mention of the khag whereas let's say Purim a parallel it has Magilla so the question is why is that many answers have been given today we're going to discuss a few and the discussions that come lead from the different answers one as I like to always call in the outset there's there's lots of collections about it only one I'm going to mention is from maishitz veneria we're a very useful article later on at some point it was even translating to English there are academic articles that help for this whole story but today I'm not going to be using too much from them for today's presentation okay the hope is to present some solution some that have been said and some maybe um build off others first as a general thing about Hanukkah on omissions there's a lot of omissions of Hanukkah what do I mean when you a lot of people ask this is also a famous question that we're not going to deal so much today but we'll mention a little bit about is in allenism there's no open mention of the nase of the paksham why is that so we'll return to passively at some point another Omission is even the lotion of the gemara when it talks about chanukkah and we and it talks about al-hanism it refers to allenism it doesn't say the words the famous gemara that everyone quotes and we'll be discussing this this Bryson so it says after it says then it says everyone knows doesn't ever use the words alanisa very interesting I'm not sure why that's so who's the earliest when we have the shelters which we spoke about in previous episodes of Hein kanyevsky he uses the words alanisum now even then the actual nusrah you have to go you have to wait till who has it in short form and then you have to wait till we shine him who bring down the whole Muslim another omission is even after we have this gemara the gemara is still strange a little bit why it says but what about doesn't say that Lashana Harris they spoke that you also have to light it talks about what you have to do you have to say hello and say allanism but the main thing that at least that we do is like Maris Hanukkah so this question already is handled by many just to mention we're not going to go into this specific question but this is the big day Kahuna whichas and Shabbos right away is Midas from a few hundred years back and he goes he writes on the Mizrahi the Mizrahi wrote on Hanukkah on the smag so this batikuna has dozens of issues going through this the gamars and the suggest Hanukkah um I would say it's something close to um close to 50 different issues these mephalpo in it now the safer has been um printed once or twice you can find in Hebrew books but more recently someone published about 10 years ago it looks like this a paperback and and he his name is Menachem Adler he's written he's written a lot on Hanukkah and he goes through this Hebrew of the batikuna um and the Hebrew is incredible but and he's argument on everything about Hanukkah a lot of lambdas a lot of all different things and one of the things is he asked this question deals with it okay I'm just mentioning it now because we're not going to really get back to dealing with every single aspect of the gumar another question that people ask is we don't say any mention of Hanukkah if it's sort of a yunt if why not another point that people point to is in your xiaomi there's command nothing about chanukkah even the badly which we the badly does have a few blood everyone knows many people they spend chanukkah learning these suggests there's not this came out nothing is there any reason for that another Point people point to is the pyutum of vertices there's no mention the pack shaman which which is very very early which in recent years a beautiful Edition came out looks like this with Las Camas of many good Islands such as Fisher and others and it helps one go if it was beautiful it's a beautiful beautiful Edition with pictures with haris and one goes through it you agav get a very muradic understanding of what happened in Hanukkah but you'll be surprised to see there's no discussion of the paksham another discussion another Point people ask is in the desire there's no mention of Hanukkah and and then the last point is in the rambam and everyone discusses baruchos and he talks a little bit historically in his first Hanukkah and the second Aloha when he talks about we lighting candles he doesn't even quote the gemara and Hanukkah that we just quoted which says NASA by Nation why he also seems to be not talking about this thing okay anyway these are all the emissions we're not going to be dealing with all those missions I'm just pointing out that the omissions of Hanukkah are very glaring on some level in well in many different early sources different emissions so this is the hadama of of the episode okay thank you Rabbi brought but brother not asking to say this but he mentions he always mentions that he has this saver is about to put out wants to put out and it's time to put it out so anybody well feel free reach out send them an email I'm sure he could use it needs time for it also but I'm sure funding can help get these wonderful Farm out he could tell me that I'm wrong but that's how that's how it goes in the book industry definitely funding is necessary that's for sure yeah anyway so you can become famous together whoever wants to participate to become famous together with Rabbi Dr brat um another another interesting piece of information you mentioned difference for him um I know nahi Weinstein on the Swarm Shadow podcast has had discussions with different um academics about different various works that have been that have come out on Hanukkah you know discussing them what what information is missing what information is not missing what's there what's not there um might be interesting to check out for some of the listeners anyway okay so who asked this question you know you touched upon it a little bit but let's get into the ones that you want to focus on that discuss the park or the question of why is enormous status Hanukkah right so it basically is is Rejoice of Cairo he asks this in his arm now this was pointed out to me uh many years back from by snare by Professor Schneider Zama Lyman but it's not in the Magnum and the standard pieces of magnesium it seems that there's manuscripts of it in a piece of a manuscript it seems he's asking this question so it's cute everyone knows what's the most famous question about chanukkah is why it's eight days it's famous for being the besties cache even though it's much much earlier we might have mentioned a drop of added today and this question also at least the first person that talks about it openly is the base of Joseph anyway another person that talks about it is the kavascript but um dies in 1702 was a tremendous tremendous guy and he was a very also very interesting guy most a lot of his material did not survive but we have some like um like a mate of some of them of this massive work that he that he had on well on collateral cooler and every type of thing possible and it was printed a few pages are printed if it's called yair nasiv it's a incred just it's four or five pages printed in 1865 for manuscript it's incredible what you see what he was going to deal with in this work that has been lost so one of the things he talks about is now it was printed on a journal called base medrish that came out in 1865 at one point it was even photocopied but um but anyway the point is not we don't know what he says but he asked the question also um now alkan the two early sources ask the question and then basically the the next source that I believe that I located asked this question is uh contemporary of the in 1802 um he asked this question in the truvis adisbee isif that was actually also um printed is it printed in maybe in 1800 and he the safer also was recently reprinted and he has a piece about this topic and we'll get to his answer shortly now the truth is as I mentioned earlier all different omissions of Hanukkah but the omission of pakshaman created a great controversy in different periods of time in 18 um 91 a year named heinzalex lanumitsky he wrote an article in the newspaper at svira questioning why in the early sources such as if and all these things there's no mention of the pack sheman what what's shot in that that that's the question that he wants to know um okay and he deals with this and he's and basically he also asks about the rambam and basically he says it's it's a it's a it's some he he has different suggestions about it in his article we're not going to go into what um He suggests and this ended up being a series of articles in the newspapers and his newspapers this mamish was a controversy all over everyone was writing about it completes former written about but even a fellow from Moscow yako reichmann even even a fascinating correspondence of his with others he even he wrote very sharply against him is what's he suggesting that the the nation of paksham and it didn't it didn't happen just because it's not mentioned maybe there's another reason behind it but anyway um now it's assumed that this little mitsky he's an evil masker and he had evil intentions with it it's clear that he wasn't an evil Moscow without getting into a conversation of what is a mass kill if there's different types of masculinity who spent years working and he was consulted by many good Island because of his expertise in mathematics and astronomy but after he wrote this article which was towards the end it seems it went downhill for him and he was put into a different category just to mention one autobiographical account uhurst malinski writes he writes how he met him after this article was written and he said he knew that the people the responses against him were very sharp and they didn't like him but some people actually wrote defenses for him such as alexanderoff who was a close who was in close correspondence with her cook but because of his correspondence with this and defense of islamitsky people a picture of him circulated on the bottom had said that he's a Russia anyway one other point is that the tire tamima and his famous work the macarbaric writes that he went to visit varsha and he and at some point islamitsky was also there she asked him why doesn't go visit the native as he had been close correspondents with the native he said I had correspondences with him I really want to but since I'm on the outs and I fear that that those against me will stop helping the native if I visit him so I don't want to go to him and it's clear it had to do with this article anyway bottom line is that he wrote this thing and and even in more recent years this has come up that there's no discussion of the nase of pakshaman in early sources and watch that but we're we're not um going to deal with explaining possibly to be miyash of it but it's already in the famous controversial earlier work maare nayim from the ready to times the base yes if he already notes the mission in the morning Etc about there's no mention the Pakistan review Daria Medina in a controversial work of his or he's also a controversial person also mentions it some people say and this is how we'll conclude what this topic is that it's a lot of times it depends on the tone of how one presents the information for example in a very in a from Missouri Journal just a few years ago hamayan it was presented in a different way it's showing different kudas in this thing and then afterwards in the next issue people were very praiseworthy of it and even though uh in 1891 when this person wrote it the way he wrote it it took it sometimes it's about to tone but it's again it's a very complicated topic and we're not going to deal with it I'm just mentioning it because we're talking about Hanukkah and the Omission the whole time it's sort of in the elephant in the room okay but now that adcon for all the sorry points now let's get to our main um story for today so just to clarify there are there are two things here right the omission of pakshamin in earlier sources right and why is Hanukkah are you tying these together or are you just no no I'm just saying that that I'm lumping is there's something very interesting about Hanukkah that in early sources when you find it there's no mention the pack Shaman which is not for us and then is that even is why is there no why is there no masecta not only about Shaman but everything why not so I'm that's and that's the main focus of today okay interesting you mentioned my skill from masculine levels of mass skill for those who may listen to Rabbi Dr David Katz's podcast once in a while in history for uh his descriptions of levels of masculine but either way so let's get uh the answer that you want to discuss um now today okay so the first answer that that people give is based on a famous rambam in person which basically the ramam says and this gives us Insight in how Rabino I cut this when he wrote his Parish he wrote when he put together the mishnah which is the things such as we don't find also nice why not why because all these were well known by everyone even the masses they knew these so there was no need to include it in the Hebrew of everyone knows that everything is open in the missionaries which is his own story which we're going to discuss a little bit today so things such as these things that everyone did every day there was no um it was not written out by remedy now it wasn't put by repeat this answer was already given in 1804 in this we just mentioned and many others Hanukkah is well known so it was no there was no need to create a um you light the candles Etc okay sure has a problem with this rambam in general he says just look at the mezuzah doesn't mean they're well known these are complicated Mitzvahs they're full of details not only that some could say it's more complicated than krishma which has its own has a lot of hokus grishma just to illustrate this point of jakov shore the hoffenstein's son writes his father spent months working on just two Simone and you could speak to people that are Isaac in the suggests of saffron sorry that people spend years on some of the 3D raises a similar point that these halachas are full of pratim and diktokim that that people don't know so he's so Bianca sure suggests there must be there was some type of masecta that was devoted to the film similar to a masecta Sai from type safer and was lost and and but some of it is retained in the masakta siphon that we have today okay this is a suggestion of his now with all that we could go on to the next answer and that is the assumption that there really was a massage Hanukkah and it was lost now we know that there's something called Chevron in the series I hope to deal with this length because of hankeringesque is well known Rhoda perish systematically on the seven most actors however many earlier did not have these masectas and many wishes but the question is what are the seven masectus so above and Agra quotes from his father says Hanukkah now we have the seven sectors today but the kids are it seems it might have been lost the radar seems to say that there were other mastectus besides the Shiva masectas he has the makaris in chuvasagainim interestingly enough the vulner Going's great nephew writes and that he heard from the filming that they were that they were not only with Adam there was something called all these fiburim were lost anyway so so this is a different answer that there might have really according to the grad there was such a receptor was lost okay now this really leads us into the next answer which is that there really is what magillus Tinus who says this so earlier I mentioned is the Heber adesbians of printed 1800 who I said he's the earliest source that talks about this question and printed sources besides the two that I mentioned that are only recent discoveries and he brings down that and goes with this also um that that there was no need to write a message because if you open up your masectus if you open up magilla's tightness in the end of magilla's kindness is against a parrot and in the air talks about it talks about and we're going to see more about it in two or three minutes it talks about chanukkah and then after it brings down Hanukkah the essence and it talks all about and then it talks about it and then it has a whole there's a few pages in some versions of the khibor but there's Allah and the leave it out so we see there's a bunch of Allah early Miguel's kindness early safer now interestingly enough in 1908 there was an addition of the Massachusetts of of magilla's tyness and he says he says this answer also that he didn't know that other people said and then he says that on the cover of this printing Edition in 1908 that he publishes he says McDonald's he holds and he could mistakenly think it's okay there actually is but turns out it's really a parody of laytona sticker work printed but we're not going to get into that now what you can learn from that anyway a few years back this keyboard that came out in 1908 called um a parish Amigos tyness and one of the position was Asia Asia and Asia of RAM I don't know why okay more recent years Elizabeth published it and they published the whole work it looks like this um and they have some other program now one second you said I was about the published in censored then you said they published it sorry sorry correct correct I'm testing if you're listening that's all that's what they always say right Aaron a publishing house they published it with including everything okay um now we're trying to clarify one more time probably censored it they censored it and and did not censor they published the whole thing okay now ruchai and Berlin he helped he was the news lime time he helped the author including giving him real materials from his incredible Library he even tried to get funds for published for publishing by making this author spent four years working on this Parish it's a very nice thorough perish on the thing and he says this is what um bottom line is um today this parish is available it's available on Hebrew Books if you don't want to buy this Edition but He suggests that's what the grub means the girl didn't mean that there was a lost message because he wrote even harder someone goes Tinus and that's what he's referring to okay now even if the growth didn't mean like this but there are clearly certain people that understood to answer this question based on the concept of that mcgillah's tightness is what we're referring to now and therefore since magilla's tightness is an early work so rabbit didn't either included him if there's if if there's a few pages and Miguel is tightness that if you open up your McGill's times it's not a few pages in a stand in addition that doesn't have perusum on the side but it's a nice page of the most important aspects okay but in order to properly understand this answer and why this answer is not a good answer one has to backtrack a drop we're not going to go fully fully into this but we're going to mention like this what is McGillis times when you learn gamara comes up very often what is Miguel's Tinus so basically Miguel's Tinus is our earliest written halach text and I stress the words written dating from much before Aaron mishnai some say it was so well known that even children knew it by heart it a collected days of when Nissan happened in the times of bayashani and basically there are two parts one written Aramaic which is a list of the various days that one should not fast or say a spade them on it such as if you open up um when you're learning the gemara over here what is the price the famous price of Mike Hanukkah the tunnel because that basically that's what that's the Army that's what's called the Aramaic part of the ghost Titus but right away when you look in the standard mcgills this part of The Middle's Tinus only has something like 270 words it's a list Aramaic list of a bunch of days in the in the year not to say not the fastest but there's another part in Hebrew includes and each one of the it's like a gamara type um to each one of these days and gives explanations what's behind today it talks all about what we know about Hanukkah that you find already partially in the Bryson gemara shops now so with this in mind it's not so strange to say that there's no need for a special massage since the earliest text we have is a lengthy entry of balcony with most important things in kundalagas so why would you have to repeat it the problem is that although yes there's an Aramaic part and a Hebrew part but the dating of the two is much later than each other and that is the McGill's tinuses from before the mishnais and that has but it had significant additions this what I'm calling gamara part written in a Hebrew was written very early at the point when it was not permissible to write down this was written because it's just the it doesn't really say much but at later point the tire was permitted permitted to start writing so Hebrew was added when did that happen earlier says it was completed at the end of the tanoin the bulk of the discussion regarding Hanukkah there appears Miguel's tinuses in the Hebrew part so therefore it does not make sense to say that rebe is relying on it because this is only after Ramen who first suggested this answer they were not aware of that there's different kufas going on in the magilla's Tinus such as what the which Rebecca which is some of these other do suggest now lamisa for just to go briefly into this a few aquarium already used the McGillis kindness for chanukkah because there are pieces that are not that show that the famous Kasha de basis already in the middle of Tinus that it acid and it has its answer and it's his own a long discussion which is thick Works thick tones written on the sugya of the basis Kasha and but it turns out it's very early Kasha ready from ghost dinos now be there as a mate when One Compares the the the Heineken girls tightness to the badly we find many similarities but there are also differences so the child is which work the badly did the McGill's Tinus now they were saying that the the what I'm calling the Hebrew part slash gamara part that has Hanukkah in it was that before the gemara or after so if you look in let's say the native earlier represent later on they all say that this Bryce of um that the gemara had is written after this part of this Hebrew part of the girls Titus okay anyway this is um as I said there's a this this topic of the kindness sorry there's been a lot discussed about it especially in recent years in the academic world based on incredible discoveries just to mention there's a lady very Noam put out a beautiful edition of them girls tiniest based on tremendous discoveries in manuscripts and there's also Sharma Freeman they've written a lot about it and many others um but we're not going to go into it I'm just throwing it out there to mention it just to conclude the sugy of magillus tyness and Hanukkah were two interesting cute things one is um um uh we know people talk about America so America that um to put them mildly in the 1860s Yiddish kite was pretty bad so in a book it's called um the first Rabbi which is about a one of the earliest rabbis um in America from Rabbi Robert from Rice who had smiha come from the yakish about the madrasium of rambing so he in a piece over here when he talks about chanukkah so it sounds like in 1845 he's talking about it he's talking to his kilo there are very few of them know why we celebrate Hanukkah and and what it is okay this is what he says Okay now what's interesting why am I saying this introduction of 1845 is that uh contemporary of his was someone Bernard um ELO or something like I'm probably saying his name wrong this person was a talmud of the Sam Cipher had Smith and he also ends up getting to America and um and he gets to America and he's a I think a Rob at some point or maybe I'm not sure I don't know his whole history offhand right now but I came across this piece that he wrote a chuva if one could use gas for your nay rice if the fight if so to speak the flame is coming through gas if it's permissible for your um so this is a true for being written in the 1860s and part of the deals with how to learn up to McGillis kindness I found it very interesting even though I just said in 1845 the maps of an America is terrible but there was a year the talmud of the of the Sam Cipher he's handling with them with he's handling with the Miguel's tightness how to how to answer up his chuva and interestingly enough there's a in this collection that his son put out of his stuff there's someone else a rebandi who also he he argues on and he has a whole arigos again fighter handling in different aspects with the McGill's tiny so it's cute even though America was a terrible situation but we have two Eden that are handling them girls kindness and these in these Indiana okay that's one point and the last point now related to McGill's kindness and this is is it there's an interesting little-known correspondence on the topic between that darus and robyakov Kahana and his rears truvis told us Yakov where basically they're handling about Mercedes Hanukkah magilla's Tinus so rufkahana he was bothered why the battle left out most of the magilla's Tinus from its discussion in regard to Hanukkah he compares the two and that Darius wrote back to him about it that he that he remembers he he that he once wrote about it Etc but he says what bothered him more was the that the usual me doesn't which is why I mentioned all the way in the beginning and they handle better but he says lamisa there's a lot of Mitzvahs that are not mentioned the missionaries such as Siva safetyra is a Mitzvah uh and it's that family is nice but kids are he sort of kind of writes back to him and it's a it's a very interesting Trooper how these two good dailymus and some a tiny bit about the background of what what it is this hebor Miguel's tightness you mentioned these two rabbis early rabbinic figures in the United States of America I believe again Rabbi Dr David Katz has episodes where he talks about both of them both are by ricegum by Eloise that's how you pronounce his name either um but I think you look in his podcast he discusses he has very interesting content uh both of those okay so thank you for that information um because I'm sorry for who you've mentioned just um a few times already um I think he has an answer as well yes yes definitely does he's it's okay this is one of the famous tourism perhaps one of the first truesome that I ever came across was like this the Sam Cipher says so this Harris is brought down by is to say over the reason why it's not in the mission is because Robin are kaddish was from the Zera of government and the Miracle of Chronicles who took away the malcols from the the descendants of David so it was tanata his liking in quotation marks he omitted it from the mishnah was which was written these are very powerful words and I remember the first time I came across them I found it very interesting I went I used to had a very close caption with Aid his name is and I asked him about this because I'm sorry for and he said it schmeck from haskala and we'll see more about that momentarily but bottom line is this piece of the cause controversy like a lot of other things and it was dealt with there were censorships how to present this people noted this um in an article in in the Commerce they were in the Hebrew coma someone wrote an article about notice noted in the different versions of Michelle's Channel Publishers anyway it seems that the daughter of the samsifers reported to have said that the Quran General is not reliable okay so he says so so some people would say okay this is chalk it up to one more such peace that is not reliable what he says to answer about about um why there's no machines I came across um the three day H says he knew the author personally because she was a reliable person he was a dight gun and you could rely on him okay now La Mesa the world expert today or one of the world experts because very hard to say is and he put out a beautiful work on the samsifer called zacharius and he says that most of the time it turns out that this is correct and he defends this answer okay so what's it based on it's based on the ramban the rambana famous ramban in the end of voracious where he talks about the Hat of the Hashem that basically they took it away from um it's a famous ramban I'm not going to go into discussing barricas the quote to Russian but it's it's well it's well known the mice one of the points that they brought up why because I'm cypher it can't be is because in gibden he says a different reason he says based on the ramdam that we quoted in the beginning that since Hanukkah is well known rabbi did not included so it must be because I'm sorry for couldn't have said it but I don't know what what does that mean I remember hearing when I was a kid that the satma Reba every um night of Hanukkah would say in other terrorists and if for the base series is cashier so this cash there's also a bunch of Tourism so what's many questions if he has many Mahal come so one time he said based on the ram number time he said this what's what's so problematic I don't know balamisa even if you don't want to say this I'm sorry for says this um says from from um he's the inical of Ruby Swami Kutner he dies right before World War II tremendous guy and he also he says his pla um clearly and he ties it to the ramban so even if you don't want to say you don't like the um Cipher saying it or schmeck from mascala and Lamesa I did fine years later that the mice is higher Franco uh interesting fellow to put a mildly um Tacoma Moscow is also putting it mildly but we're not going to get into that he does say it and this was the the accepted explanation by many historians for many years that the reason is it has something to do with the yahas of rebi and hashmanayam and how the name are portrayed in hazal in a negative way not in a negative way this is a topic that's dealt with in the academic world we're not going to discuss that today but well maisa others have said it besides an interesting Feinstein which some people do call him a masculine I believe he's not but anyway different people said this terrorism but there's a different in the Cuda just to mention briefly is this Terrace of some Cypher is telling another thing and that is what was rebbe's role in writing the mishnam was he an editor that just collected previous material or he added things of his own so um just to mentioned he says Rabbi never brings something that he does not agree with in the Mishra so that goes very good safer from the baliatives and he says that Rabbi was mostly an editor he gathered existing and he chose with what to include so comes out Cyprus turrets would only work according to the captain of pharah but according to the safer crisis even if something even if he didn't want it he would not have a possibility not to include it in there anyway this is um the famous territs of the Sam Cipher that's been discussed okay now I would like to conclude with one last mahalak as time allows as the clock runs down runs out on us and that's as follows some people say let's say Alexander Marshall Peter says the reason Hanukkah is written down is to show the power of parishable and there's tons of Tyrus and schmooz and tying Hanukkah and which I'm having is not to go down that um says something similar thought but I think it has it there's even more to it and that's his fouls um basically we find in the gemara a concept known as khasuri maksara that when it's talking when the gamars asked a question on the mission and says something's missing and we try to understand it says there's a line missing and she really say this so many years ago when I was in 10th Grade my high school rebbe at the time Rabbi lobenstein he said he heard over from Israel it was done on purpose the whole Hector to write the entire pair was A Rush of verbena kadus that he saw was going to be forgotten he didn't want him to become accessible to all he wanted to retain a strong part of it that should be dependent on Parish about pair on a messiah from the past therefore he made it that certain parts could only be understood based on transmission from a previous generation how did he do that he's specifically on purpose left out lines in the missionaries La Mesa later found there of footner says this by Rico's and he says it for chronicle so it was done on purpose to retain uh it was that's why hanukkah's only mentioned I found him to show us this type of thing similar to kasuri maksa this is where refunder says lamisa without calling it to Hanukkah we quote earlier from the kavascr an incredible incredible work of his that only came out from manuscript in recent years called Marcus shisha he basically says this nakudo to explain Asylum from just to throw out there because we're throwing out these words also in a mass in a musculine friend of his of Captain allenberg he wrote many Iris on the scribers the rashash says the same thing in in explaining it now explaining but I want to take this a suggestion I'm going to say another point and I'm gonna take it even further and that is like this is a famous yid that also sparked controversy which we hope to deal with in the episodes of empiresky soon enough however based on I'm going to take what he said and go further he said like this there's a famous he he doesn't he doesn't say this this is the background there's a concept called khasure which we just said which is that um that there's no sovereign with this introduction um even though he doesn't say it I'm giving the introduction to medallionado says that where's everyone know Hanukkah from babakama that's nice if you have a if you have a gummo I'm going to say it in English just because we're English people but basically if you have a camel he's walking in the public domain with flags and the flags caught fire from a fire that was in a shop and the Damage what happens the owner of the camel has to pay damages okay however if the storekeeper's fire was out on the public domain then the storekeeper has to pay damages then the store keeper is not obligated to pay from here says Ronaldo we learned the basically why the neighbors have to be lit outside over 10th and when people are passing by Allah found in other places in which nice so the rest of Allah has a side issues so here in this mishna which was talking about Hillcrest naziken we see openly all these things so you have to it says but this is printed in a work called which it seems by is also it's very hard to find it's not um he's when we discuss and we'll maybe discuss more about it but anyway this is what He suggests so really what I'm saying is that the khasure Tyra is specifically in the mishnais not that the gamara says on it but if you learn the mishna carefully you'll see this more to the story okay so now I want to take this even further and that's as follows when one starts so if you're learning halacha and as we mentioned in the past I have a certain special place in my heart for the maganav ram he brings down a Hebrew right in the beginning of Hanukkah for why there's a famous meaning that all children are Macbeth and cold in every place in all the world which is where does it come from so I have no idea but I know when he learned from the Magnificent I remember when I saw this many years ago I know this is and everything I I emailed of a friend a monthly has a tremendous Farm collection named Rabbi Sean Jacobs and he tells me yeah he has a safe hand because advice he even made sure to get me a copy to send it to me in art Israel and basically in this turns out a few years later I start going through the safer he's a talmud of the mashallah Cheney and he wrote an important Hebrew called tala Iris quotes the sleeper is beyond rare even the hida and in a previous episode we just spoke about how he saw everything in the shame I could tell him and everything this work he never saw but the magnavron had it anyway it's first printed in 1641. what's this hebor besides for this important of that he give the kids the poor kids the money when they come around what's this Hebrew turns out it's a Hebrew a masakta say from showing from showing how in hanira is that we say every night all of ilka's kanakarma rumors so I would like to suggest that this this it's not clear how early it is but it's for sure from so there was a small piece that everyone knew if you want to even go to Thai with the rambam of the rambams Persia Michigan was well known Fearless were well known so everyone said our nearest hello and in the nearest if you look at it very carefully the safer unbelievable what is how he shows it but and it's not through using gametria's and it's after using hibijibi Kabbalah through push it learning the text on tons of things in Phil Collins that's she was in the safer so but sir there's a there is a a PO a place that I could show you even similar to a medallionado who points to mishna in in the Baba Karma the famous Mission which talks about that's how we know about the Hanukkah is here it's much more because a few lines and there's more he shows how everything is in there it's kadai to look at there's at least the version on Hebrew Books is I think maybe a few versions on okay now I would like to conclude because we asked so many questions at the outset and um even though we're not gonna we don't have time to go through all the aspects I would like to conclude something with a different review of mine this rabby of mine I would I give them unbelievable credit it's my fifth grade Rabbi and this Rabbi his name was Rebecca Levi burlovsky and she was high in Berlin and he was extremely he's my fifth grade he was my fifth grade Rabbi and I give him tremendous um appreciation he helped my he helped my appreciation with svarum grow I mean say by the time I came to fifth grade I was into smart and plenty but he helped it for the next four years he helped it a lot and he just to show the impact this is my fifth grade Webby I'm not young I'm not old but I'm not young it's going back many years and he quote he wrote up for us um in a pen with four different colors uniball pens a red green blue and black with stencil machines we're going back I don't have the paper here I do have the paper somewhere actually he quoted himself which until today and this shows you the impact of a rebby could have on a kid even in fifth grade and basically it says in in in Hanukkah we say in Allen he said Cipher that that's the answer to the question that's where it's alluding to the Nace what does that mean how is it answering the question because they weren't able to light inside normally they lit inside here they had to light outside why because it was so common that it was so full of Tuma and it's winter nights so it normally should have gone out much earlier it didn't that's the Nace of chanukkah and that's the issue of sign for the base series of Kasha and that's the shot house marumas and alanisa okay this is some Cipher doesn't need any any uh mascamas this is a some section now um the Marshall so but what is this is a Nace that that um and that's how Denise came known what does that mean to have the Nace came known there's a difference I'm sorry for that a friend of mine Amicon pointed to me it's a very interesting sum sorry if he talks about why the nase of Hanukkah is outside and as opposed to let's say uh mcgillah we don't do it outside even though there's a there's a connection to the passage bias for PESA but he says because pesach is that of course everyone needs to know about it why because in the times of the base I mean that she was a say sir and not everyone know only the Hannah knew this not everyone knew this he says the CES of some Cipher arrive at the safer different malchus by Shani um says this okay and he was this Amicon was asking all different people where in the world does this come from lamisa this concept that that only the kaihanna knew it sounds like there's a famous that also says something similar that it was not such a well-known Nace it wasn't as from a person though the mace of Hanukkah was that he won the war and everything the Nace of the shaman took time for it to get known what's some say for referring to so you didn't have an answer I had I I reached out to the rabbi hamburger I quoted earlier he didn't have a good answer he did send me a list of different places because I'm sorry if it does refer to historical works but there is a the famous Ravid the first Riven who's known for writing a safer Kabbalah which is historical work so what's less known is he has a Hebrew dire Asylum which is also available uh so one of the a critical Edition as they call it as this expensive book and that's the only reason why you showed it in the first place and basically he talks about Hanukkah and over there but the problem is with the dating and everything and it's still not clear but it seems that some say for what it's possible that some say we could have seen this work but what because I'm sorry for how I remembered it that's still uh beer where is the source of the point is we now have an answer at least one answer there's many answers um of for for in alanisim and we also able to read the answer up the basically even though we said a different answer which is that really in the middle is tightness but here we're answering it Lamesa okay we tried to keep it to some normal sense of time without going all over the place um with all the different tangents and tangents that I could have gone to so I'm being polite thank you very much um any questions or requests for possible PDFs or book information please be in touch with Eliezer brought gmail.com if you want a sponsor any episode we have requests for episodes please be in touch with myself suede mou.org or Rabbi Dr broth at Eliezer brought gmail.com thank you very very much and we look forward to connecting once again