WATCH: Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Brodt on Seforim and Peirushim of Maseches Taanis

[Music] rabbi dr eliezer broth so nice to be with you once again after the feedback we've gotten for our discussion before massachusetts rosh hashanah although we're a couple days late but we have to do it again for mustafa's tightness people want it longer more expansive we're going to keep it short and maybe one day we'll be able to do something more expansive so let's begin this time rabbi brock give us a little bit of introduction okay so massachusetts is a very kashmir massachusetts talks a lot about the word titus i mean say all aspects of kindness with a lot with even halacha myself aspects some aspects will get to very quickly at the end and like all other sectors just to mention one tool is the gear size the text of the talmud of massachusetts so up till now you the one main tool would be the dictu cypherin um marshall if someone uses art school hebrew a lot you'll notice it quoted extensively in the footnotes it's not so much in the english it's interesting difference between the two um and later there after the say from wrote his work um there was a edition from sv malter famous for working on the book of his they wrote on sadiq and others and this work is a based on many manuscripts of the sectless tennis that were not available to the cipher this massacre science is available i believe since then there's been much more there's been many more discoveries with the gear size of tomorrow but that's beyond the scope okay that's the first um tool to know about okay very good okay so the first thing let's discuss is rashi i know there's been discussion in the previous generations among the if this is rashid this is not rashi i know i've heard being discussed that talks about magdalen i know both anime scepter and destruct talks about it so what can you say about rashi on this after kindness okay so interesting is it's in general it's very interesting is that certain massages it's been questioned if it's where we have different messiahs that say that this masertra is not rashy this part of the maserto is not rashi one such masekta is rashya and tinus the question is when who is the first person who even pointed this out um also i'll try to explain what the significance of knowing if it's rashy or not and possibly if it's not rashi who it is so first um i i looked into it a few different times and i have written down in my notes that there is a reactive ending about the subject so i but i looked high and low i could not find their back of eminen finally okay looking and then i see the hidden brings rabia vandan and he says um in the sheikh dhalim he says that the reactive emblem says in his mishnah that rashi am a sector is not rashy okay fine so i would but i want to see you everyone knows the famous clown is it's always to check up things inside i want to see where is this rebecca m then anyway i look up to misha alechem now the mishnah and he added editions and later on it was printed called so i opened up my mission there's nothing on tinus and i cannot find it again looking looking all over different places people quote it quoted from different places but it seems no one really saw it where it is finally um it's getting very frustrating i'm looking i want to see this reactive ending and the reason is is as fouls we always want to know who's the first person who claimed that it's not rashi and what's his reasoning behind it maybe you know it could help us understand what you know to dismiss that it's rashi so fast it's rashi it's rashi a long story short without boring you all the steps of the of the of the hunt um there's a safer there was a a person named he had a fascinating massive library of manuscripts of svarim he dies in the late 1840s and he had a catalog where he would list different information that he found about svarimore's manuscripts and later on it was printed there he brings that reactive em then talks about it in mishnah so i told you but i looked to my mission alecham it's not there turns out my mission alechem was reprinted in the 1970s and does have a mission but it does not have the mission of him on office it's in the mishnah office now then i remember why i had written down yakovandin in his which is printed separately he has a list in the beginning of office listing out different lashes on the massachusetts saying this is not this martial of us he says is not from rashi now over there in the hagdam of the legend shamayim doesn't say that now this dhamma for some reason was not printed in a lot of the editions of them but in the first edition of the lechem of which has 15 pages which is not printed in the 1970 edition that is where i checked up and this is i'm saying all this is the reason why you have to it's to um explain why you have to justify swarm what i have behind me and not just to rely on computer search engines and stuff you feel you see it a lot of times you could see that you could see the thing what do i see is that in the mission of a navas of emden says um he he says the following words ki pirish gemara tinus fake nadaram now for i have no idea how but kai mikhail hopped and then it turns out not jaime's so he's adding in one word that what tightness also is not from rashi but the problem is that's only one word it doesn't say why why why in the world is like that so then i find that there is a thing rebecca lambda wrote as i looked originally i was looking for this rebecca event i thought maybe it was in this amaze but those are not complete vakshal and one of the things to get people to buy ashas he put in different things this before azvahadr took over and he got a hold of the saviat of verbiac of emdin on gemara um in his gemaran oxford called kailun shal safram and he printed them throughout the masers now i'm not even sure a factual is complete but it's much more than what's in the standard back of the gemaras of regular massachusetts okay locate over there and then you're okay so over there he doesn't say that it's not rashi what does he say he says this is found if you use the i'm not sure if it's in other um editions of the of i'm not sure if it's in there because i'm not sure if they got permission to use this question from anyway he says as follows the [Music] although he in the beginning of office so first of all never saw this reactive emden this is from manuscript of his gemaran oxford but but the hidalgo just takes it okay it's rashi it's not rashi because of this word i told you i don't understand how you have to take an account that he does traveling a lot of the time he's not um sitting in front of a nice library quiet he remembers one word puts it together okay jaime hall at least he's sitting in a beautiful library he's a rich gear so he was able to look anyway bottom line is he doesn't have it but it says so but when you look over there he's not saying it's not rashi he's saying is there was stuff added in now this is a more common occurrence especially following the printing of the talmud a lot of haggai's were stooped into the various prince especially already going back to haggai so the marshal was put in so it didn't take so it turns out yakima is not removing it from rashi okay but this is why it's important to see exactly what it is rebecca vanden said however moving a little further maritzkais prince hagoya sanchez and fosvin i believe it was and then later on in a journal called sion and then later on he wrote a trouba safer with the second part of the trooper safer has certain of his and he has a mimer in imribena [Music] he has an extensive arrihos going through all of rashi on the surface tinus and asking various questions and he sets it up very very muslim going through the um the pointing out different horrors now these are based on different things that he from his knowledge of rashi and shafts and it's interesting is that no one really took this simon although everyone quotes this simon no one ever really took this semen and went through piece by piece to see is this an issue what do i mean to say is that from the time erzukais wrote this till today there's been a major um our improvement in our understanding even though we still don't understand completely how rashi wrote his work and there's many questions not answered but we know much more than before and the question would be to check if all these things still carry weight um some of these things might not be issues so much because let's say you have one list he has is tyrus arashi and he even points to the muscle of magna vram in semen tough dalit that he says over there are the mughal rum is being irish thera in rashi from sachin to tinus but the magnum doesn't say oh it's not rashi on tinus um as an answer and even that it turns out the nazir ascension has an answer for the mugging of rum's problem but so that couldn't be you can't have a build upstairs we know there's always theorists hirashi and and that's its own conversation anyway the bottom line is that the marthaius concludes interestingly enough based on his various many riots so some was first of all sorry someone did attempt um we'll get to who in a second someone did attempt to answer up some of them but it still has a lot more it could be improved much more so the martha's conclusion is that it must be there was some version of rashi on the masekta and talmud added stuff for someone else of that sort and that's why there's more problems in this massage than other massachusetts okay that's what the muratis conclusion is how about this okay so his conclusion interestingly is like this he first he he seems to go like with this rebecca vending note he doesn't have any riots he says oh he had a kasha with a certain rashi whatever then he says he saw the isis rid tirithva and rabino bitsalo their hadushim bring pieces from rashi and and they're in this rashi so must be if they're being sitterashi it's rashi and mistakes crept in tarashi which is more possible now is able to say such a thing because you have to understand in the top in this period of time we were talking about the late 1700s that he does writing this piece this piece of the hida is being written in the years in the 1780s probably there's no there's virtually almost no rishonim on who traveled and visited many libraries and we know he saw many miss manuscripts as he identifies them in his magi fascinating book he was able to say such a thing and say such a proof now but a little further martha is he doesn't talk about it father we share because again still the scene of rishonim for this massacre which we're going to elaborate on shortly is still almost dead now okay um now so in short i would suggest that even though does this make this conclusion and has his thing it's there's still work to be improved to prove one way or the other more conclusive however um just to say a few things just a few last points with with this to conclude this uh um piece about rashi on this massachusetts like to conclude a few things first of all a lot of people did accept this marathias some will you'll find for example rebecca altschuler a famous literature going wrote on milo he has a whole piece in the beginning of the safer about various rashes on them he right away says but he doesn't quote me it's not rashi um there's a a very hashified sport he was a talmud possibly of the midfielder but he brought him in the print he has a guys in this interesting safer printed in the 1870s calleberghagaila the back of the safety has a bunch of haggai's on the safer and he also tightness not rashi um the dictu cypherim who is expert in this type of thing he says it's not rashi but he the in a few places and he and he interestingly enough in at least one place he goes the gain mar it's highest the ready was merciful and it seems he he's accepting that it's not rashi um again i'm not going to go with the long list of all the people that talk about it as a it's a long list but i one interesting tidbit to emphasize certainly they talk about it both the brothers the american and and uh and they also and they referred to them how do they refer to him similar to how the quesadilla from another literature person they refer to him as going what does that mean so i just like to point out not to be married on this but it's even a debate a few weeks ago even everyone always asks is the mask is a moscow he's not he's good for the jews bad for the jews whatever you want interestingly enough even in in satmar um in a few weeks ago i just got a call this week how this was being debated in various satmer um newspapers that come out over chef for shabbos the past few weeks specifically about this point one guys quoted the martial and didn't give him proper cover the other guy said how can you give a call to the next as you could the satan rabbit quotes him the whole thing it's oh it's debated about always um um i hold my conclusion um is that he's 100 percent crusader and i could bring many proofs to it here are some is that always refer to them as going they don't usually write going so fast um now this baklal this whole approach of he's in this simmons his mama's going through rashi very clearly he's not just like okay it doesn't like the lush and it doesn't fit where did he get this again on the tip of um just to give you a tiny piece of where it's coming from i believe it's from the influence of his great rebbe the great rubber frames all margot i just have to say that to plug my work on robert franzano margolis i've worked on him extensively and i feel that that's where the spa came where befriends almagus was very into text oriented being the dyke and russian entice islamish everything and that's where it's coming from um where could people find your work one day when it gets printed and the last point with all this is why is this so significant the answer is very simple in a lot of times when you learn halacha you will find that even though some people say you can't bring a rai from rashilla many disagree with such a point it's its own schmooze and for example the magnaframe in shabbos has a piece where he builds something built off a sheet of his built off arashi and pinus this is the same magnifying that knew about theorists in in in rashi in simultaneous and we find other places recently there was a journal a few uh two three years ago that came in so and someone has all the interesting piece niger to um relating to today's stuff that comes up in this episode and it plays out do we count this as rashi if it's rashi it's a narashi is one of the islands so it plays it's a heavyweight if it's a talmud and you know it's mistakes and it's this you know people will be more skeptical do you count them in the list etc okay that's the significance why it is anyway so i'm not being mahria a lot of people say a lot of different things that's what i like to confuse you and that's the end of the story of rashi on moser's tennis and the marathi is we must say that rabbits embroidered david hutner's daughter famed correct i am arguing on rabbits david and we don't want to go further because we do not want people to ban the show and um rabbi dr david katz has a podcast on um what on his haredi masculine martinez is on the list i don't need i mean in that way but you know this discussion so i'm very good let's move on okay okay so let's move forward you briefly touched upon the fact that we shine them were not available on tinus certainly in the late 1700s so when did they become available and what do we have today okay so just to make a very quick napa ricos so the first time really a significant region comes to light is in 1729 is the ritual but interestingly where most of the time the ritual is written as a perish on the gemara here it's more on the riff um and it's printed but in 1729 afterwards it wasn't really used it takes a long time till against but today bark hashem we have moisture of cook and it can be found in any shoe library a thorough work on the now after that there's no real significant um development of china the masecto until comes along vilna they were looking to pump their shots so they got a hold of rabbinachana the manuscript and robina gershon without getting into anything about them but these are important about what they are and the significance of their works they're very important they're on the daf very useful so those so already vilna and then the brittle do you already have something um fast forward a little a little bit later um discoveries are made of this robano [Music] they found a few blood of his more recently some have found a few more blood of rabbi alyakum it's been printed in a journal called and if more recent i contacted the author he has found even more material of rebel yakum which some of it is available on the internet for free on a website called all tyra a very fascinating website but it's not completely edited yet he's it's a work in progress but he put out some more blocked of this rebel yakum and justin short significance of rebel yakum is it's a similar type style to rashi type so it's a very shot oriented safer okay and then just uh just as always there's always discovery so there's that safer try wrist was printed um [Music] on the massager printed against the resin which has a few more volumes you have the meri and that and that's some of the rishenam that exists on the sector okay moving from um earlier right now i'm sure there are a lot of the standards so i talked about a little bit of the standard ones and something that might be interesting specifically the massachusetts so interestingly again there's not all that many um svaram on devoted to massachusetts we'll get to we'll get to it shortly um and through that i'll get to talking just one last point relating to russian kindness but the first thing is that there's a famous akron famous for people in the shiva world that learn kachin the karen ira the karen ira is the brother of the famous literature god of michigan now for some reason we know almost nothing about the karen oyer which is very interesting um he's assumed to be a talmud avraham villagener but i i can't find any such thing that he's the talmud of the kind of legendary his brother the bishops the active was a talmud um the sons of the karen ira write all about their father naisak dhamma which i'm going to quote in a minute one piece from it they don't mention anything and they would that to say he also was a talmud and they don't point this out at all so i suspect he was not a talmud he's strictly a talmud of his brother he's a few years younger and his brother michigan is jakob now he but it's clear from his looking at his work very quickly he's influenced by the style learning he quotes the group very often and he does quote something not so ordinary but for someone in the influence of the grad you shall me um you know another thing is he worked on kachim that's where he's famous from and just one um one thing about him because i just found it so interesting is the dhamma the children write about him he basically most of his life he just said and learned only saif yama after his brother died he ends up taking over his brother's position but he was living in this at the end he was living the same city as his brother and he learned with his brother um anyway so they described their father sader ayom so they say that in the morning he will learn mishnayis he had a set said after first learning zaya this was early morning then he would after davening stay in palace and fill in learning in shu a daf gamara he gave some type of sheer and he would then he would return to his room now remember he's a litvak and as i said he's i i think he's influenced from the guru camp but he weir he wore rabbenu phil which is a khiddish until about half today then um and and he was isaac a lot in writing now one last thing was is after minha he learned which again this is why i assume he's somewhat influenced from the gra slasher kind of login or this was a mood not so fast not commonly found especially not in those days okay that's the current now looking through the safer something's very strange he is his hush of a relative of his is the shagasari that's one of the famous deva mentioned in this and his whole yikos is its own parasha which will not go into or the fascinating interesting material his zedo was or barak shikh anyway without going into the story of barak shikh but he doesn't quote the next khash of a famous acharyan that wrote on receptus titus who's that the virus ari which i already spoke about by yuma and i spoke about by rosh hashanah this was a what answer is this is where you gotta know bibliography and what's the answer to the question the bursary is printed after the karen know your character is printed in 1851 versailles tinus is only printed in 1862. therefore he could not quote it okay now we're ready with myrick on the versailles so i'm not going to be married a lot about him i just want to say two tiny quotes i would say no because the grossery is long dead he was lifted away before his son put it out 1862 whereas the charge was nifter in this i don't know bibliography it's not your fault hashem you don't know yeah that's what you have to say hashem i don't know anyway just to quote two quotes about the grocery because we already were married on him and i wanted to i was emphasizing then that people in the gra camp for sure were into him even though there's a line that the grass said about him different things one such line i have discovered what yeah one of the people from um influenced by the new legra what extent of a talmud is is a different story another person from the basement of a talmud of khan vallajnar and the talmud of the nakhos david talmud of enlargener says when he's talking about he has a stickle tire he says so in the well i'm just saying it's not an inhalation some people were asking what am i meant i'm not going to be myrick about it but anyway that's the point there's a guru saree it's a karina that's the literature camp what about the galatiana polish camp so interestingly enough there's a rubiak of shore this was originally printed in the now doesn't exist sadly anymore a journal from bhabhav so there's a few pages of this great guy in the back of shore who has arrived he dies in the 1920s he was a talmud by the shalom as a young kid already fascinating interesting personality now lakewood printed a volume on the sectors and other stuff it's called i think it's called um or something like that and there they have this rebecca shore somehow they have more pages than the karashima but they don't say exactly where they got it from but it appears to me that they have a few more pages so you even have some more pages of some nice tyra from a back of shore if you want a different style um learning on the massachusetts okay now one last thing we always have on um is that you always have to find someone who's mashugat which is an amazing thing um and we do find such a thing randomly walking into this farm store one day i come across a safer called cheetahs okay people complain that i don't show the show and tell so here is how it looks it's a giant safer nice size safer it was printed in parity throw in top shin sam and this safer the fellow went ahead and he printed a lot of different swarm that he tracked down khashogg on including the safer tsreiros that i mentioned was a region he got out he got rashes from the previous person apprentice and a few other interesting purusha and it's amazing thing to have with mama of the young dikka a lot there's a lot a lot of material on the sector's tinus that one could find in this safer now um and one thing at the end is he has a whole safer from someone that's called the kaverim and this safer detox was first printed in 1803 mammoths were talking about a 200 page small print letters but he did a nice job based on reyakahe cipher's recommendation to him to print this safer it seems to be a very very hush of a thorough dicker perish and one last thing he has in the safer after printing over eight savaram he also went and he tracked down a bunch of swarm that have a few pages on the massachusetts he put it like a uh he calls it um which is very very useful um you know a lot of times the truth this is this was he printed this into zion so it's especially with new technology that huffman has the safer is not as today you could do such a thing yourself really but it's still very good to have it you need for shabbos right that's the oh the claim why you have to buy sperm still and um it's a very very useful safer now when i say the sugar for the massage it seems as that earlier randomly walking into this farm store i i found myself seeing the safer it says on arashiontinus i'm like rashi on tinus whatever so this came out actually in touching some of dalit and he located what he believes to be at least two blot which is [Music] and he deals with it in this safer so to blood he claims and it's not only him other people agree with him that it's that we have on some ancient print that he tracked down um through israeli and he printed these two blood of rashi that's for sure rashi he also deals with i mention the red sky is someone dealing with it he deals with it in the safer but i i think it's not um it's not enough but be there as a mate you always need such a person um the reason why it's significant to have these type of people is they they take them a sector they adapt and then you're when you're able you're able to learn it and you could have um valuable information on them now just to conclude to um okay so that's the main street i guess right now we're running out of time any contemporaries right so just be very mentioned not right exactly well just because the clock is ticking so people who complain i don't mention enough more contemporary so there's a safer called igra de tainisa which is from a fellow rabbi nakam abram's in muncie it's over 500 pages available for igra de tanisa is available for download on hebrew books very thorough safer malacca a lot of material on the massachusetts then i got an email um a few days ago someone in a brac put out a block by blood a lot of marmokinas and pieces of shadow oriented but a very nice work of 100 something pages on the massacre that's the sector just to end off is this massachusetts right right right so tiliana is a collection of um of more contemporary russia shiva's also on the massachusetts from all types um malakit somebody got some manuscripts a very nice collection of material on the massachusetts put out by people in liquid some form i don't know if it still exists but they put out more than one okay just to conclude is this is about tinus one of the suggest interestingly so first of all general taina is some recent say for camaro just people like these type of things called nasives of the vorkus this is about tightness at siber in the back it has a um but he just basically lists all the taneason that there are and he has some nice material about it okay um and he has in the back on hilka's tightness a small countries from manuscript to rosh dublinski now just to conclude speaking of abstract the blitzky schweizky was a going lifters late 90s in arizona a few years ago he was famous for um writing swarm of noise him on topics that no one else wrote about sometimes he was like he would find up as a simon and chocolate that for some reason wasn't so one such topic that he wrote about is the concept of tightness this sacrifice has people already know deals with um um where people learn is tinus that it deals with fasting cause of lack of rain so what now in earth is trouble sometimes this happens it starts raining very late so how you're supposed to make a tightness so he wants to know why we don't do it so he wrote a whole safer about it was printed four times it's called paul gay mayan okay very nice safer in his style interest just to conclude in the so he sent the safer out to different conveyor he got feedback some of them liked it so interesting writes to him the reason is today the reason it could be that today it's not as nageya to do this his point always is it should be we should fast because that's what's straight in our locker and he goes through the whole from scratch and and malacca everything any fascinating um material in the safer so salman said that's very possible because fast who's going to end up fasting yeshiva and because no one else is going to take it so seriously so so for banay torah it's better they should invest so and what do we rely on so we rely on the mice of food could come where it's a whole different world than 100 years ago 200 years ago so it's even though yes rain is important it's not as important not as dangerous deathly so yes you'll find the hundred years 200 years ago people did fast and developed health of that but not so much as today you could rosham in this letter they they print in one of the auditions um that one could be mako uh um about it anyway that's some of the sperm on the massachusetts that are out there okay sounds fascinating how many things you mentioned that we could have conversations on stand-alone but not in this forum hashem we'll get to them and looking forward to the next episode one day is coming up next in the carolina also my mission is interesting piece of information and thank you again rabbi duck billy as your brother and we will be in touch