Was R' Chaim Kanievsky a Posek?

[Music] welcome back Rabbi Dr elzar brat it's a pleasure to have you here and we forge on talking about harav this season season two believe it or not we are still in season two we're wrapping it up has been sponsored anonymously last episode was a very interesting discussion about throughout the generations we talked about and mki d and today we want to discuss something that kki writes very often sometimes more often than you would think is necessary whatever he writes is not to be relied on is that something which has been done throughout the generations what does it really mean do we find that have that sentence written in them that have become relied upon that is today's conversation Rabbi Dr elzar BR how are you today okay so you gra you gave a good introduction of summing up what we hope to do today which is when you something I've pointed out numerous times and I said I'm hoping to get to discuss and today hopefully we will be Ming what I tried to promise to do which is let say open up the on the already he says it's only meant for but not for numerous times at the end of his at the end of he'll say this again and again um volume one after he goes purposes so now the question I was um is what is what's going on over here and do we find precedent for such a thing Nowa let's say a pis says such a thing and you want you take you say you know what I'll take my chance is a great yid I'm gonna say he he says you could do it I'll rely on him do we find such a thing in in the world of did this happen before okay so I set out to look for this I'm not trying to trace every single G that ever says it but just when you see the following G that we'll talk about you'll see the what the story emerges the story goes like this first of all as a as far as a p Tak looked at himself not as a pis and we will actually fine-tune that more later on because he answers thousands of chuvas um something like 80 a day for years and years so what are these type of chuvas what are they are they Hal and when he talks about and them do we pasing like them what's going on with them okay anyway we pointed out a bunch of times that the stier was one of his role models he um and the styler also was very n into pasing other hand we do find sometimes he did pasin but for the most part he also is very into that he's not a p um where his they learned they learned but he doesn't he holds he's not Pas okay interestingly enough with the stier we have a five volume setu which is her's took down notes of everything that he sold by the stier and these Works in recent years have become his an hugus and all different things are always quoted in all the various far out there SOA even though he held he's not a pis and everything and even though maybe harson he was writing it he didn't mean for it to be Al but eventually it takes on a life of its own and it becomes Al okay with is a similar type of thing in his lifetime a fancy safer came out I remember when I first saw it I grabbed it right away which was pictures of every aspect of rsk's daily day life they took pictures of him and they show in the pictures all the I want learn from these pictures they went through the through the year whenever they able to and gorgeous pictures and a commentary to show all on hug you can learn from him this came out in his lifetime by the family artc recently just published it in English with made it a little nicer with the pictures but the same pictures from what I was able to see but the point is he might not have meant for he's doing what he's doing but all of a sudden these books are the pictures are out there and then from the pictures comes so he could scream as much as he want buta what ends up happening is these books become s I'm saying I don't I don't even know if there's disclaimers on those books um because he didn't publish them against it okay anyway the point is that sometimes you could want something to happen um you could say I'm not a p you say it's not but as I said it takes on a life of its own okay so I'm showing you first is that by the styler his father and this is what ends up having kki um anyway okay but as the question question is is this um do we find anywhere else that this happens so the answer is yes what okay now like this before anything we find in the world of that there are certain areas that people when they passing they would always say I'm not passing myself don't just rely on me please find someone else that also says like me okay where do we find this very often in because it was such a area complex so even Superstar would say I here's my heter here's my chuva but I'm only masing for you to rely if you could find someone else that agrees with me okay that's that's a very well-known fact and in the from he collects a ton of um pages of the question is like this what do we do we find people writing and they say don't rely so the answer is yes so first I'm going to quote a passage I saw um Rab salich salich in his book called halik man he talks about that there is such a thing that there were people that they were not so that the great that they that they were they um like to learn they like to learn but but or even if they became even when they even became a even when they became a r of a city they tried to avoid pasing as much as possible um he doesn't spell out specifically here maybe does elsewhere but it's clear in the in brisk Sal is known that he didn't like the pass he would send Mo there was a dying in brisk he didn't really do um except they say I think in areas of okay fine but but question is were there other G especially if you're a r of a city you know how you can't get away so easily to do such a thing you're hired to be a pis okay anyway there was a safer published numerous year many years ago in time of the is fascinating interest so in his he goes out of his way to say even though I was a pis in the city and I Pas in and everything for years and years he lists out where he was and everything but I'm what I'm writing in my safer I'm not taking AAS for you to rely on so I guess it's some type of aspect of yeah I'm writing my thoughts maybe it's interesting for you um maybe food um food for thought as it's called but don't rely on I'm not taking responsibility okay interesting a little later we find the primam the primam which everyone who anyone who learns knows you can't move without the primam he spells this out he says after he talks about all the different things what he's doing in a saer he says to rely on me no way don't reely on me R he he wrote it and that's why we find a lot of times by him and everything and now everyone knows when you learn right and left everything is the prim is beyond beyond important in the world of not just food for thought the went out of his way one of his that spells that which we quoted recently is because the primam has valuable information and we need to include it and the beforehand didn't have it such as the the only came out M the end of the Parish of of when the was being worked on so he doesn't really have Sak of the prim okay does anyone else say such a thing yes we just recently had an episode about the flna in of the andna where he goes out of his way to say I'm writing a then he says don't rely on me what's going on here so you see here yet again another great now does anyone do we rely on in the world of we 100% do he says similarly we find in same thing he says in not to rely me what says such thing of course everyone knows in the world of is is bread and butter for we rely on him okay not only that we have saer when he's corresponding with his children about writing up about publishing the safer so he also goes out of his way to say that yes I pasin when someone wrote to me I did about that should become that it's that it's um and it's bad enough I had to pass when someone ask me but but um but it's not my it's not my thing and don't rely on me you have to first check into it I'm not taking a for everyone just to blindly open up to safer and just say oh it's often trer and that's good enough for me say rer certainly not do not rely on me for such a thing meaning to say I'm telling you how I learn up to suya but you yourself should learn up to Su and see if you agree with me so so I'm listing out over here all these different Superstars that this is what they did turns out points this out already but if you learn the of the the sh in his says the same thing don't rely on me um um so what is going on over here we see all these Pim and I'm listing I just listed you a bunch of superstars that the world of Al is as I as I said it's the bread and butter of the world of they rely on all these people okay now one other this is who handles and everything is is a famous to volume one of M and I I believe he talks about it more in other places I saw Marshall professor spel in his book he also has a few pages about this topic he has other sources of that right don't rely on me so handles this and he talks about himself also and he brings makus about it how could I be a pis how could he rely on me and againa Evena um talking unbelievable things that he says I highly recommend one learn this very carefully it's very very very very important there's a lot of you say over here you understand him where he's coming from but the point is that you're SP what a lot of these pisum are trying to say is like this I reached these conclusions I learned but don't trust me you shall learn the sugya yourself whatever now the question becomes okay what happened CL said like this I let's say I'm a ra and I don't have time time sensitive I come across the TRU Raa I'm relying to Raa and all the other that I just listen listed off from the sh onwards but the point iski is not unique um so far what I'm showing you is these main stream Superstar throughout the generations they all said this about themselves okay fine so we have some some precedent forki does okay doesn't write 50 times over his far but Raa and Raa is not I'm not Raa does admit that if you come out like that you like him you could rely on him so is going further but if you compare let's say to that that FL says every relies on when it comes up and you have you rely on him anyway okay now there's interesting story with all this um I'm not I can't even remember yet how I came to this but at one point I became very interested in a saer called chuva from the son of theer beautiful safer on we're not going to go into discussing all the fine points of this safer but it is a very very interesting saer and at some point I come across reading um that in some additions of the saer he said on every page that's what he says so fine I pull out my copy that I had and it doesn't have such a thing so I went to check okay eventually you could check and you could see then the first edition of the safer cus chuva it says the top of every page so this is even more than says son of not to rely on now just to mention this this as I said was known as an unbelievable kades also so I was talking to someone recently from um named Michael Kaplan and I told him this thing so he says oh there's a very interesting introduction in one of the um where it talks all about this Chu from his son because who's a son the son is CER who we've discussed in previous episodes he's one of the people that brought the to light he was the main person behind publishing of thei and I even mentioned the story once how the wasn't feeling well he he was n and the was going to be late at night heard this and and he so they said oh you don't have to go you don't feel well he says I have such for publishing the and he made sure to go that was the story I said so this sends me this four pages where this writes all about TR his father and interestingly enough who is the person who published the most of the is this an of son of now at some point fascinating thing they didn't have money to publish the now you have to understand today if someone finds a manuscript of you know how much a page of the of the could go for a page on auction $30 $40,000 there was a time not even a hundred years ago that they couldn't fund theer to publish so and he was he he was the person in charge he didn't have what to do comes in his wife this is right this is rer brings us down the wife mean say his mother ramer's mother who she's also an an another way and she gives her jewelry so that the could be published so it's fascinating is as time goes on you know the I'm saying if we would have made a campaign we found now TR three seconds later you would had a million dollars not not even a sh okay anyway sometimes it's fascinating to see the stories um behind um different that you would think is one way and at that time it was different than today okay now but continuing on is that is what um and that's the rest of today we'll talk about is like this and and this actually relates will tie in what we discussed in the previous episodes of also and this is as FSE not um sometimes the safer comes out and then it comes out that people say uh oh don't rely on this this problems in it it's too cool there's too many coolers in this a for okay and then and that's what we're going to see about that there was a request by certain to make sure to be Mish in the next Printing and put it all over the safer don't rely on this unless you check out what it said very carefully okay what am I referring to so this this um is a fascinating story and it's going to help us with understanding with theer I'm sorry with kki and the styler also okay so I mentioned already before in the previous episodes that one of the unbelievably that published that the stier who was very against what am I referring to in season one I mentioned that the from the STI has a whole piece against kit Farm Li farm that bring down all different s and all different piece of information and whatever and it's a very Shar of piece and at that time we identified that there was a pness a sharp pness between between the stier and and other against the so we spoke all about in season one so but the point was is that he took out the name of the safe he's referring to but over there he's very sharp against kit to stier but on the other hand from the by him is M unbelievable so the question is what so um through the next discussion we're going to see and we're going to see how it plays out with our conversation that I spoke about about not relying yes relying okay so like this approximately 30 years ago I was starting to I was learning I was beginning to so I wanted to know which could one rely on more than others let's say you find the coola and a certain safer could you rely on this safer more or less so so I was talking with someone and he told me as follows I was asking about let's say about the I see it's quoted a lot let's say how much weight does the have so he told me like this he said you could rely on everything you see in the he a and even though in his time he was considered a Mel and people because of this came out against him but most understood that he was a unbelievable he even was affiliated with I guess I don't know if he was officially a specifically of one rebba but he definitely leanings and they understood he was not a c and at the end of the day his his so you definitely can rely on him this is what this person told me many years ago I was always very curious is anytime I would come across things relating to the maram especially with him as a pisc to collect us okay finea I come across the styler learning aru and the aru is full of fascinating information a lot of times and it seems at one point in time someone wanted to come out against the he issued a certain and they they were going to put they I think they even at the end of the day they did put out kyus against Orbach and hung it up in signs I think I even heard from someone he saw when Orbach was reading the patcha that they had posted against him okay anyway the point is so the the chabin got involved and he wrote to the styler about it to get the people to be quiet about that they have no business talking about the the this is going back a long time ago so and we're talking about that we have the chab backing up who was very close with and he held that they had no business to do such a thing anyway in the course of this conversation it seems he wrote up as a letter to the stier B he wanted the stier to get involved and this RAR saw the letter but he but um it had to be ripped up for some reason maybe the it could be that um said not to um publish it anyway in the course of the letter it said that um the chabin um says that something happened so I'm not sure the way the styler says it it's I'm not sure if it's we can get to what the chav says from other sources but the point was like this um when the marsham saer on H trus came out all the way way back so he put out the safer called it's called okay and this saer was a massive on trus full of K so some it seems they went out against him so the way it's brought down over here in is then they went to the sh and they said maybe he should be G is the safer he says um so it seems that there was a to put on top of every on the top of the next printing of the D Tyra on top big letters Lo so in the story as the way rev Hart quotes it is that the stier seems to recall that he remembers such a thing that um that he saw such a on which said on it okay um and then the STP then the STP I was being unclear before because I I wasn't sure but now I remember correctly basically like this that the Harwood is quoting over in the course of this conversation a conversation he had with the stier the stier was saying not in relation to this story that he had with the chabin that he recalls that something happened with people said oh he's a Mel he's a Mel and they wanted to come out against him and the said not to and and the that they said was they should put on top of the page okay and the stle says he saw such a safer so right away I was very curious to see is there an existing hilus trus of the that says such a thing that on every page it says and it's interesting the sh was it the sh who said this or not okay so this um this was what got me very curious I I went down at the time to try to track down a into HEB University to see if there's such a to see such a d at the time I was not able to find such a d okay okay anyway um so The Story Goes Like This the in the in later editions of the safer so the marsham publishes it and he says in you should know this is when I am do not rely on it um and he's basically similar type of thing he's saying that don't rely on me so especially when I'm unless you check into it and you see that it makes sense what's going on here so here we seeing something about D to this story that the ster remembered but we're not getting the full story um and was this when he published it right away what happened exactly and is there a way to know what happened and um to understand what's going on beh me say what was what did the cple remember and what's the story with relying on the D so the answer is like this basically when he first published the safer the first safer that he published was on it's called and it seems to have made a it had as it says on the the says that he brings down tons of information that's not in from and with all different things that okay so made a Maj and it seems they were cool in the safer okay it seems that the safer according to different versions the Bas was upset about this um he saw things that he didn't like there's different and um and about what exactly it was that he didn't like and basically one of the of the story is like this the chabin we have coners a conversation preserved um um from the chabin about this and the chabin says that when it came out when the when the he talks about further that what happened is when the gilas not not only in the but then comes out to G they sent it to the saw problems and so he and he decided what he's gonna do is that it's what it says in that okay so there was supposed to be a paper published in so it wasn't the because sh was already rather gave I believe um actually I'm not sure if he did um but he def the maram definitely did have a with I can't remember right now if if he gave but what happened is it was the stier was his memory was correct there was something up with what with the but it wasn't the it was so and the T was to publish a p to put a p page that now not that on every page is to say such a thing that's T what happens with the Chua but the Chua himself did that but it should be a disclaimer and if you open up um the addition of the of the G you'll see a disclaimer not to rely on okay now interestingly enough there was these Pages these papers it was supposed to be pasted in so it seems one survived the family has it and recently a fascinating two volume work called all about the came out from the and they even put a picture of this um paper that was supposed to be pasted into the various into the edition if you bought a copy of the G because of the and it says in there um they have the it's in the handwriting of the that it's it's um so again again such an emphasis so we see here what happened was that the saer came out there was a snag from the B one of the of gal of the time and because of that Mar listens to him puts in a petch in the safer or now it's found in the introductions in the sh of the first the earlier printings and it says not to rely on so now the question is like this when the wrote it he meant for it to be he wasn't even using the of the and all these I brought and then all of a sudden is against him and then he puts in the pet so says the it's cute because anyway the today that p no one has that paper anymore and the safer is was very close with and he says theer was even with whatever the whatever's Titus were on the safer and it's used and and the chab was very very into using the the maram and he held it was a in the world of so we see that what happened was there was an opposition against the saer there was even a thing to write a changing of against the author me say the mar originally thought that you could rely on it him but because change and okay and the says we see sh Chang goes according to sh and opposition now the problem was like this that he was was not the only person against the safer of the maram and the the mar another person who held to was known as the dark and the dark when you open up your dark in M she says I bring down such as but sometimes um he brought it down but don't really rely on this he's just bringing it down and then he says why he's bringing it down a few um um ums to the famous um so he's saying that he brings it down but not so here we see the and it's that he says such a thing that very Shar against theim and the of the maram but he's still bringing it down because obviously hell it can't be that bad but he's bringing it down in the safer okay fine so now the sh which I always had was okay so we have over here one of the of gal and then we have theater in the dark they're saying not to R it so what's the story do you rely on it or not so looking further so I found like this number one says that he was he went through and he saw his only with but and you could definitely rely on the son writes that um and things that that happen that are current events so to speak current chus he doesn't really deal with in the M this is the son talking about his father in the but he says what do you say you look in the and those type of people me say was very important who does he make sure to get gets from is the so we see the m is also very into the mar um okay now furthermore theis theis writes that um he was very into the marsham so much so that one of the far that he put out that that's was that creates there's a safe called from the SP the SP unbelievable hundreds of and all different things he was very smart when it comes down the 1890s he asks the for his gives it to him and we have a safer called and it has a tons of information from the and it also has from the incredible information not what's so incred about it not only is it incredible that M unparalleled in that period of time but also has tons of original things and original comments which shows his uniqueness this safer becomes a classic one of the people that goes ahead and writes on the safer was d d was fascinated by the maram very into the maram so much so that inspector was alive he was his go to God when he had very tough shist that was he said this was his his Rabbi kilu for complicated issues when is who does he um say who's his re the gal and he sends him his shus for stuff that he felt that he needed Clarity from okay similarly Berlin his friend also when he's talking about great he's talking about a certain thing he says if you get the then I'll be Mas to be my name to this and this thing so I'm showing you already some of the were're very into the mar furthermore they say and I would love to know more if it's how reliable it is I did not fully check into this but supposedly the dark Chua he for some reason got a fromit so he was told if you want to get as from make sure to take out that page that you sent about against relying from the mar because is not going to give you if he if he sees that okay they they say such a thing um but um I have no idea um how authentic it is but okay now then come across a fascinating piece of information this is like this there was some type of different um and they want to know what to do so they brought him they brought to comes up the of the they bring it to and says you can rely on it so one of the that was involved with the sh says but the the the dark is M Ander he says there's two types of one is a and then there's a there's a g that's a Creator he's able to beades and there's one that's a collector who is better he would say I hold this is talking the one that's aad is bigger he says like this the is whereas the is Rock a I'm sure theas don't appreciate this especially they don't have appreciation in the first place but the point is this is a in what how looked at the as I said when you look at it's not just that he's bringing down now turns out that the shows that sometimes the D Chua brings down and it doesn't he misquotes it now it's very possible the reason is very simple because D is quoting from crazy library of information say yeah could be M sometimes where the where the maram was much more a creator as is saying now interestingly enough this that is saying to be one I would like to point out is it's probably he got a and a respectful possibly because he knew what held much his father-in-law after he wasn't his father-in-law he still retain a very close relationship because he married theer's niece so he had a very close relationship with him but the point is more so that the that um for of cook and for these the point was about the is that he was a and he had what to back it up with now so interestingly enough as I mentioned this gal book that came out just now all about the maram so they have a excellent chapter over here all about this topic and as they said they even bring some they bring this missing document that I never saw showing where the ban would put into the new addition in the handwriting after rign it which okay and they have a lot of very good information so they bring down this piece of a cook but for such a work to quoted B they only bring down it's but they don't tell you that is saying it over from who so it's a typical standard censorship of from certain places of literature okay to say there but the point is um bramberg bramberg in his his book on the marsham which is a very nice book has this piece this is I found many years ago okay now there are numerous other quotes to show the of the maram which we um that's not the main um point of we're focusing on kki so we're not going to do that today just to mention very briefly is Rebel Yash turns out Rebel Yash there was a fascinating there's a book hasht which came on the life very interesting stuff in there so one so him once for the discussing about a certainer so there so one of them said to the other one said to the other it's not only a because it has from the you see these two they looked at the had extra for them because the and more than that they both were remarked that the Our Generation doesn't have this type of um of unique God Superstar God such as the maram he was he was something of a something that both Rebel Yash and were both very into so much so that in this book they bring down um this new book that I'm quoting this this whole time the S so I said they have a whole bunch of fascinating things and we're not going to as I said time is short we can't quote all different things but it it seems they bring down such AIS I would love to see a picture of it but it says like this I quoted that Thea says on the in of publishes of whole thing don't rely on the The Bash says on this call he writes on the side of his copy call now interestingly enough um just to mention one two two more sentences related to marsham is like this the maram was crazy prolific wrote thousands of chuvas and and everything so who was after his kids um publish whatever they did whatever the BAM published who takes it over the anle the famous person today in CL famous as known as the as the mag of the mag speaks thanks to PES to RAB PES Shad Shad is anle of marsh and he leads he's the person that works on publishing the of finding all different things publishing the manuscripts whatever they had and they unbelievable the that they had and what they published after the tras had they kept on finding more tras and who helps and he wrote harus on it who helps the shom sh shom sh is helped by none other than rashash also has a lot ofus in the work in the various volumes they've published on they've published on G multiple volumes and they finding new stuff Cass Cade anyway for such also very the brother-in-law of they used to always discuss they remark over here that there were times that there was a certain time he would be would be late at night in understanding a certain that said he would go right away to go share with they would dance understanding it anyway the point is that mentioning [Music] theel all varied and just this is as follows I come across RZ RZ is talking about a certain sh and he says that it's good enough that we have R and the and then he says the following sentences about the and we now know thousands and thousands of so basically the point that I'm trying to bring out like this there was opposition by great and others it seems they had a problem with it but at the end of the day as the trinov said all those those papers they were forgotten about and we rely on him as says even though he writes this in so we see there's a certain thing in sh sh takes care of which should become and that's the answer behind the sh and the all these Farm they become the P of clel what was the reason behind it that that is not for me to say but these are we we know from the tremendous character of all these G they were Superstars not only in their abilities of learning and that's what ends up up happening so so the point is you could scream as much as you want don't rely on me but everyone knows when you learn your day relying on the relying on the answer is yes so he could say as much as he wants buta even in his lifetime what we see happened is that it becomes relied on and today even for few short years after he was became now just this which we will find T in the next further episodes which we're going to go further into a because we have to explore F known as chki which is a famous endless amount of lure I'm definitely not going to discuss all the books that are out there I have not seen all of them I'm not going to see all of them but I'm going to try to talk a little bit about it put it in context but there's a following thing like this not only is sh does shamayim decide who becomes our Pim as I said with maram as the CH says and rash and all these and all the other that I listed but there when I came across it at the time it's a fascinating and it's like this a to Berlin says that he once heard from the that one could say a the ra um even though that the himself didn't mean such a thing why because there's a and the r they were written once something's written KES so it's no longer has the they're not in control of what it is me say it's said and and and it's EMS now just to mention a drop about thisa and then we there's a lot to say about it and we will perhaps find tune some of thisas um later on in the course of the next few episodes a drop but the point is like this a GLE could say I don't want you to rely on me the point is it doesn't make a difference when there a special thing and we find some of these there's claims and some of them at least that they written KES it's no it's but it's more than that it's not even ifes once the t is out there it's no longer the BM so to speak and the author could say I didn't mean that but the rambam we know this is a question which is a fascinating question people say Ty is in the r they say what do you mean you go I mentioned the Marshall um in a different context but the same story goes like this they say they asked the r the ramam someone they say on different that basically call they spent their whole Liv working on the ram except they had one or two rans three rans they didn't know the answer they come up to Sham they say before anything could we go speak to the rambam want to know they go to the r the ra tells them a different gear and and the way The Story Goes they slap this God whoever it is substitute whichever God you want to be slaps in the face this is not the way you answer has to be the so it's famous that people say what do you mean is this what the r meant is it not what the so there's that's what's behind this that once the ra says it it's such such a it's no longer what the author meant but what the t is out there and this is a tremendous concept which with a lot behind it theit at the end his last has which is to learn to see what's going on with this and and I said we might come back to this just m this PR they say sometimes what happen is like this the ram said then turns out he was asked where the and he couldn't find says okay I made a mistake turns out that they found the finds this finds so what's going on now we see the right but so like this which there are others that say such a concept it doesn't make a difference you're no longer the Bible so the point I'm trying to bring out is that these great they might have intended oh it's just for you it's not for the masses it's just for it's just food for thought as they say but it's not and once they say it it becomes um it it gets a life of its own as they say okay now just to mention um if one wants to read a little bit about it are not dealing with all the issues that he brings up but Mark Shapiro in the kakir volume 33 and um and I believe aser bman they both deal with different aspects of this nuda um of these Nas about how um once the t is said by if it's EMS and how it works all these different things we we might touch on some other aspects about it but this is the I'm trying to bring out from that they're screaming don't rely on me no when hasem wants it this this Farm will becomea even beyond their control okay so is this episode [Laughter] Hala I I have no control over it anymore it's not of to me all right um excellent thank you very much before we conclude would you like to share a book review yeah because we just spoke all about it so I'm going to mention two things relating to the marsham two makis about the marsham one is it came out relatively recent and I think it was already even it came out a year or two ago and already was reprinted I they say it with additions I don't know if it is two massive volumes it looks like this called P this goes all in depth in every aspect of the maram it's done beautifully um it has lots of documents a lot of information but when you see all when you go through this book you can understand puts more in context what I was trying to bring out about the godess of the maram why he was such a superstar God in his time where it deals with all people had to do with him his he was also famous for being a person who gave lot ofas they deal with that all different things he's involved in many of the controversies such as the machine mat controversy is excellent chapter in this book so I highly recommend these two volumes I believe it's available most Farm Stores that's one relating to the marsham and another book I came across when I was working on the marsham at one point in English I have no idea how I was able to track it down I remember it was a pain in the neck what it's called the maram of ban it looks like this from a RAR Kinski was put out by also M of the maram it was published in in 2001 as from andak just to quote his when he talks about says was his name was heard in it's heard in all the goly halls of study and then he says he was a master in all fields of Torah through his work the English speaking World shall become of a weir of the Titan who was preminent as a responder to questions and was known as the of his generation okay this is RAV saying it and there's a lot of very interesting information in this book in English also but I don't know how available it is okay those are two recent books relatively recent books relating to the episode that we just spoke about okay thank you very much looking forward to our next episode together