The History of Friday Weddings

[Music] welcome back Rabbi Dr elzar BR it's been a while we had the Y Kipper and suus many of us had opportunity to receive an email from Rabbi Dr elzar BR where he shares book recommendations and articles and so if you're not on that list I highly recommend you sign up at Alazar BR gmail.com you can added to that list I want to thank you personally for providing a lot of interesting reading material so thank you for that we are in middle of a war Rabbi BR is in ra he's in his where he says he hear him from and we hope and pray that everything stays calm and things should calm down and our learning for the soldiers that are fighting bring back the captives and all the Jews and arel should be safe and sound and we hope and pray that this comes very very quickly this year as we approach the end of kushin is about a very interesting topic Friday weddings something they used to do very much bruss going to discuss the historical overview of when they did this how they did this and specifically controversy with the Rama in cow and we appreciate and thank our donor who has dedicated this year as for per and the she and the learning should be for his quick with that BR how are you today okay so take us right in first of all tell us how are you doing in is how are you dealing with what's going on and then you could begin this year barem so far so good um today we did have a siren so we had to run into the Mad a few about an hour ago but um barash everyone's doing okay um the kids don't have not all the kids have school so I guess the parents I don't know maybe the parents the kids whoever don't have it's not all the same but whatever want to discuss about Friday weddings um historical overview about it and we're going to get to a controversy that took place in cracker with RMA so now one of the many questions that come up the issues so to speak that come up with is when you have the which day of the month um some people don't have it after the later part of the month which is a topic which we will devote in episode to soon sometimes L during SP during the three weeks people don't get married now what about on Friday could one get married if they wanted to did you didn't ever get married on Friday and that's what we're going to discuss today it's not an attempt as I always point out to discuss every aspect with it but just to discuss some of the more interesting aspects possibly with this discussion with this topic okay basically like this there's a mishna the beginning ofas which talks about the preferred day to get married talks about it being on Wednesday um it's early Tak Kaz Rashi says and in the first few blot Andis it deals with it on and off and as it goes into other topics and we find in the early GIC work which we discussed exactly a year ago in an episode um what this origins of this work is but basically in B it seems the Minos they got married on Thursday while they got married on now I'm not going into all the aspects of the times of the mishna all this one his his book they deal with it and all the different um and the just what the gar says what the suming up from the I'm jump right past that starting with the r the r writes it's user to get married on Friday why preparing the sud be is in sud and then then the ra says another sentence certainly on chabas it's awesome okay over there brings down um he says knew where in the world are they getting this from that they are that they that they are getting married on Friday then he says um then he brings down the ran also is about this and the ran also says not to get married on Friday and he says and the mag refers to that it seems that the remash the Father the rebi of the rambam again not directly but through his father also says the same typ same type of thing so here we're seeing strongly the rambam mishna ran remash not to get married on Friday now looking in the KY goon and later on Mora Freedman where he worked on documenting all different aspects from suas that were found in the kyoga it seems that Friday was not was definitely not a popular day to get married okay so and this makes based on what we're saying um okay now comes along tysus andus and tysus andus says nearly um you could get married even on Friday there's no which relates to what the talks about now not only numerous m in ashas um can be found we can find that support this I'm not going to give a long list just brief list Rutenberg the rush later on the maril and many more okay so so it seems here we're we're seeing that something happened it seems that the are more M and they say even on Friday one could get married what's more interesting is is if you open up the after Bringing Down the r and the the r that we quoted he says that they get married on on Friday and they say we know in general goes with the r Etc and this is how he not only okay so it's interesting um um what happened over here that that's part of the question now just as a side point this interesting comment is that in also in gim talks about which days to get married besides for what we said in in one tus where he said specifically that the Domin was in his day that they even got married on Friday he talks about which days based on the sugus in the beginning of suis and and we know that the gamar talks about specific days being a spe specific specific braah the garas talk about um based on the days of creation which day it's better to get married that there's a day of special and says but that's not enough to be that that day is the day that one should get um get married now says Thea in while handling the su he says very interesting everyone's which we're going to discuss more in a different episode but everyone is famous the ra already brings down that they don't get married at the end of the month why not because it has to be with and but when the gives a which days to get married that people are dismissing even tysus is dismissing he doesn't understand what's going on so that we get to um next the next episode or one of the next episodes anyway but the point is that we have ashas vers and then already we see the B is already going that they in his time it sounds like they were getting married when on Friday now as interesting one of these types of ideas the brings down from the that Yakov and Leia when were they married andab and we know which is the famous that many people like to talk about dur throughout and the about this okay fine so now the sh is obvously what happened what changed from the time ofal which sounds like it was Da Wednesday and the rambam and all the what happened that the ash started to change that they that they allowed that one could get married even on Friday so when he talks about this in ezar so he says that if you look in the rambam the the rambam is referring to is because the is T in the suda something switched who's is in the suda at least referring to in his time it was more the callus side so once that happened so it's not such a it's not such a of not getting married on sh um Friday was linked to the being Ted for some reason and therefore when it when that changed so already it could change but the question is when that changed we it's not clear is there an exact time to pinpoint when it switched that the the K side is more I in the suda as opposed to the side anyway at the end says and this we're going to get back to soon that in the winter you should be very careful not to do aabas because the days are short buta people don't listen and we'll talk more about that soon now another aspect in all this is is is with a very short introduction which we've mentioned in the past in the times of kazal the marriage process consisted of many steps which took place over over a long period of time this you see throughout the garas andas and kadan there was AIS and there was nin and there could be a long gap between the gar deals with all kinds of issues related to this over time different developed for different reasons for example at one point in the times the the AR involves reciting a in front of 10 people and exua after which n took place much later eventually this was done at the same time and the same day now a valuable collection of primary sources from that one could see all this literally organized through regions through through the centuries is a work from fman Kad vu fascinating work one could he brings down literally the whole all the and you see where each person was when it happens and you could probably figure out a lot of different with what happened with the now with that introduction we go to a work published for the first time for manuscript in 1910 called it's an important early ashkanazi work which is compiled at the end of the 11th century containing numerous truis from early one of them wasas who was a contemporary of Rashi who lived in in Mains he lived most of his life and he and this safer deals with all types of hug and there's a lot to discuss about this safer um Dr Sal talks a lot about it in his work called collect in volume two of his collected essays and there's a lot to talk about but not for now but the point that relates to us is as follows there's a discussion over there seems they started making that the first part of the so to speak was on Friday and then the was written and then the wedding meal took place when on Friday night and then when did Thea take place right after shabas so Thea was written on Friday then it was then there was this what would be called the the suda and then the signing the took the signing of took place after shabas what's going on why did this happen and why was it going on place on Friday so this with n and tinas that's because of the poverty um so and they wanted to have more people to be able to attend and okay now similar the raon in the beginning OFA says a similar type of thing that was to they did it on Friday because it was very expensive for kasas to make the the expenses go down so to speak so this rum Fryman we just quoted earlier suggest this poverty was probably related to the Crusades which wiped out many German Jews and their communities so daa in these early in these communities they switched the Min of what the day was when to get married have it on chabas and then you could accomplish I guess save on shab again in modern day times people always complain about the the the cost of shabas so here you have a way out okay fine now also we could see that the the minig seem to have at some point in time in Ash really in early Ash also really take place on Fridays is that there's a different um there's a there's a Min known there's Aus M it's called which also we're going to discuss a little bit more in an upcoming episode but basically is that there's a Min that on the day of the there were two not one one took place early in the morning and one took place later on in the day eventually an elaborate ceremony developed for all these different and Yak didn't do it some even do it till today um and re hamburger a famous of M Ash and I believe he did it for some of his kids and he has and his famous work is all about every single aspect of the development of this what significant is that one of the earliest sources that we have for this in a saus which was recently published with manuscript but we have it in other sources that were not just printed the manuscript that it began early Friday mornings now at a certain point they stopped making weddings on Friday so they still had Theus mine but the earliest sources ofus mine used to take place this whole elaborate Sim which if you look even a few hundred years later in the 1600s in verm all unbelievable amount of different and different things that he did for the all around this and before and afterwards it's detailed in the famous work recently published of worms um who deals with it but he says that when they one they do this m this it switched back to Wednesday which was the now so what I'm trying to show is that at some point in Ash as it's clear was was was um even from this it was on Friday Friday mornings already when it start the whole process started but eventually goes back now what happens that it goes back and forth we're not sure but writes about Germany where they they used to make Thea middle of the week so that more guests would be able to come where in Poland where where everyone was kind where everyone lived together much more close together and it wasn't so much that you had to invite people from other cities so then the weddings took place on Friday so okay so we what what's interesting is he's giving this we actually spoke about in one of the episodes on gon he's the classic work for all aspects of hilaris um how to writea and everything so right over there he talks about in the beginning of a sa so here we see what the specific meing for Germany was in his time that they takus went back to the original takana Wednesday whereas in Poland they did it on Friday and when is this work published in 1667 okay now interestingly enough just now to mention interesting nuda over here is like this an import an importanta took place in 1701 and this was of the daughter of oppenheim who was the tremendous R famous person at the time we've actually spoken about him various times in episodes because he's famous for having one of the most incredible All Times Farm collections which still exist out so now in order of the wedding that took place between his daughter and a very who he was a wealthy person besides her being a with another very a wealthy family they put they they wanted to um there was an old custom called the briet minig and they wanted to redo this minig this old ashkanazi minig they wanted to it it sto it was it wasn't done in their times so they wanted to revive it so what they did was they published a five-page booklet with all the hugus of this Min um with it's 13 um sections of the so to speak the in depth again of all the aspects of the Sim that took place unbelievable that they that they did all elaborate of fear with the the and everything now when does this take place and this is the it seems the original Min also was again on Friday so this is a old yakha Min similar to what we me mentioned the's mind so this called the the theflet Min and so now so they published um everything byav upim revolved around he published a five page booklet which only one copy survived and from there um a bunch of years ago someone published it and in 2001 um y Zimmer made a professor also very big expert of Y so he published for of this five-page booklet but then he added on um like 60 70 notes discussing all the different things that's in these MH one of one or two them I'm going to mention soon but the point is again here we see a taking place when shabas now what what it says is like this it says that for 40 years it says in the introduction it it seems it stopped that that the the the wasn't done a shabas mean to say if you go back um a few minutes ago I said of worms he says what happened the minig went back to Wednesday and so too from as far as 1667 Thea also tells us that the Yaki yiden did it on Wednesday but the the Min of briet done according to the real way it's supposed to be done is a shabas and that's what was done in this took place on 1701 so basically is from 16767 until 1701 it did it didn't and they wanted kilu to bring it back that the to the what they call the original Yaki of having the being done on air shabs anyway okay now this booklet besides for Zimmer's comments there's a lady dor cap also devoted a whole based on all different hug that you could go go down a many rapid holes in the different hug of that come out from this thing but we'll discuss about one or two of them soon now what L what happened on shabas did did yid get married shabas so just to list very very fast the TR dies in 169 he talks about it it sounds like they definitely madeus when on AR shabas um the who's an ismir he also talks about it and his work he dies in 1673 he refers that his the custom his time was definitely getting married AR chabas he's morei which we already said is not so problematic because the B also brings down that dominan his time was already switching to Friday the mag says the same thing about Poland um and we'll get back to that shortly in Italy a little earlier let's say 1616 we have from a book written byina that that he wrote in English actually and he um also in Italian for the G talks about the it sounds like it was either Wednesday or Friday but he himself from his order biography we see he got married on Friday the talking in his track travels is going a little later which we spoke a bunch of times about his travels he talks about it and says he talks about about Italy there was a whole tragedy over there and was referring to two weddings that took place when on a of shabas a building collapsed and many people died okay fine so in the same time as the is the marish and the marish also writes in his work um that people the Min in his City this is I guess you could call galitzia was also to get married fast forward one other about this and we'll go further is the in his autobiography when he talks about the wedding of his son-in-law and daughter rev cook took place when on Friday in L 1884 then he talks about another also took place shabas so we see in the lisher world if we getting much later to the 1880s it was done and then theater we also have to bring he writes a VAR married off the children specifically on so what we're seeing is a minig getting married sh okay fine now um again we could list we could kind we could list on endless amount of makis but also we find this in me in in literature of Memoirs of different people from 1865 and and others we're not going to go through all them but the point is you could definitely find sources about it so now the sh is what's the possible reason why one should not get married on Friday so now if one looks there's a we have tness of all we we discussed this in the past a little bit in said no one should get married on Friday why not what what could be the possible reason so now we open up our doll and it talks about um getting married on chabas then it says over there the Rama says um what about getting married on shab on shabas not says based on but he says like this if someone was never married before one could get married even on shabas why because his God will cover now what's going on what why is say this what's going on theama all of a sudden you read another two lines you'll see adds in a few pieces of information what happens like this they start to make the and then there was a fight money money and um basically the two sides uh didn't see eye to eye so it happen sometimes this is situation and he throws in be careful not to get yourself into such a situation but if you do um you could get married even onab to say is based on that you should not get married on chabas it's AER for various reasons but the point is Rama says he goes so far that even on chabas one could get married now something strange you look at this Rama what's going on why does rama first of all in general um people claim that this is like a very Rama talking a lot so to speak you don't really find the Rama talking so much is it maybe there's something going on over here that it's alluding to something that happened so if you look um there's a work that not so many people are aware of even exists but there besides the the mag besides her writing the actual MAV he has something called the Gil of the MAV which is on the side of the and in many they don't even have it anymore but in they do he used he had um so over here he writes okay what happens if you look in there you'll see a fascinating story and this sheds light on this whole Rama basically what happens is like this everyone thinks that if the if the let's say God a live today and he would be around and he would give hisim everyone would would go according to him and they wouldn't have any problems and the answer is no there was always and even when the r the great R who all based on him for the past few hundred years there were problems in his big city in cracko what happened was there was a Misa and he writes this by basically um he was kadan it was Friday night and it was a whole story with a she was a she was a and there was whole fight with the nadun with the with the dowy and everything and basically the K was about to push off was about to stop the KAS and not get married to her and never get married to and and it was getting dark and dark and dark somehow they arranged and it got um everything was Shalom when but it was already shabas so the ra felt like this the probability of this happening Sunday getting them together again is going to be zero he has to let this person get married now the ra went ahead and and he let the um person get married tumbling crack out it seems this sack was attacked there ra wres you could see even from the chuva again depending on how dramatic the speaker who's saying over this Chua could make him more dramatic I'm not a dramatic person so I can't make it I'm not going to make it as dramatic but if you look at the chu Rama you'll see there's a something going on over here a talet of his was an eyewitness account of it we have M tikon who talks about it he was there and the point is that there was a fight because of money in this um in CRA and the raama pasing that they could get married on shabus but the point was when did the when was it supposed to happen now the raama interestingly enough says in middle of this tra that it was a cassader the kasas happened all the time on crack out and it was Aras but something happened some I guess maybe some rabble razler decided to go after Rama for this and the point was Rama had to write a massive chuva to explain to defend himself what was his sack based on a lot of times when you learn Rama you don't know where he's coming from here we have a few page chuva fascinating chuva with ra goes through the sugus seven different reasons behind his and you could see how theama learns how he worked through a suya all different things a fascinating chuva Ted Fram in his book um ideals face reality Jewish life Jewish law and life in Poland 1550 to 1655 he deals with he has pages on this Rama but there's tons to speak about in the Rama and the Rama's method from just even from this TR Al the point is he says it was very common that five or six coas in crackle used to take place on Fridays so the kids are okay and no one complained and went even to shabas okay we'll get back to in a minute now Italy in 1668 there's a manuscript this guy Weinstein puts a book about all and hug of Italy and we see the same type of thing a fight broke out it was a shabas it was a shabas fight about the money blah blah blah in the end they get married they get married very close to shabas okay so you see was common now that could be this could be the reason why people were opposed to getting married for Friday weddings okay we see much later on this writes that he had to make a Tak against Friday weddings because it we find R making this Tak in in the 19 in 1930 that RAB okay now interestingly enough is a famous historian slrv who we spoke about one of the First episodes I ever said over here for all D was deitzer his name was author of The cess Yi so he was a Dian and he's also historian expert of of crack he writes that after this that he writes after a certain incident that Tak was passed against performing weddings on Fridays that's what he says now he had manuscripts of pink Sim of crack this type of stuff which we don't have today so it's possible it was there does not say we're got it from but he says he brings down this Rama he brings down the Rama and the chis and then he says that Tak was made not to says which I said he already says inz okay also says you should try to avoid getting shabas also fine interestingly in the he also brings down the um that there was crack out not to do it because look what happened in times now interestingly enough um also we spoke about in his he goes out of his way to say be careful not to make shabas especially in the short chabas we find in a book um from Professor from Professor finlin Jewish self-government in the Middle Ages he also publishes a manuscript um in Kuru they also made such takas and this it seems is as it gets closer to shabas it's dangerous for shabas now interestingly enough there's a in chis where he talks about and he goes like this raama and it seems the chuva it's clear it seems that it was when he was a RV in cracking and he's passing like the Rama so what is talking about that that Tak was made because of this Rama story if we have that who's much later than the is a good a nice amount of years past the Rama and he seems to be going with and okay interestingly enough the writes that something once happened to him a similar type of thing on Friday and the and the wedding got delayed and he RI on this trama and he performed the wedding the moater was very upset at the printers who published the who published this the he held you should not publish it for for the okay now interestingly enough when you go through all the different Tak books which I'm not going to list all them out here but basically the were it seems there were even on chabas um okay and all different places in all different years in in L Galia and and France but we're not going to list them all out it's a little too boring okay now but um interestingly enough just a few last points to this to this topic like this the tour in writes that it's m to have a GU play clich with Theus with by the and this is a taking place shabas and it's not a problem of this is what the tour brings down from in now that's F so it's fascinating but what what happens is like this the ra pasin like this as does the mar as does many other P so what you see over here is that there was a minute and this it seems clear um it's documented I think rkin documents this a little bit in article that basically had the used to take place when shabas and they had live music being played by gim this is fascinating because this is something it sounds like very uh uh very not this sounds like something you you would not um think would happen today mean if someone said such a you would say it's scandalous but this is um a Min that seems as I said the ra the mar I believe goes with this also and the point is that there was such a now going back to the contr I said from oppenheim not only did they play music um er shabas with the they even did it I said there's the whole this five-page booklet enumerates all different aspects of sim that they did for this so one of the things was they had a band of even during the day on his way to SCH so you see Mish this tour going to this tour out of not the tour brings it down from was only talking about by the which you could say is taking place shabas so maybe that maybe it's not clear if it's on chabas but from upim it's clear when took place even on chabas now just to extend this and um drop further recently a book came out travels of a a Le who um he wrote it in Yiddish his travels took place between 1790 1723 anyway in the travels he's talking about Prague the city of Prague and cabala shabas he says you know what they did with cabala shabas they played with live instruments that's an incredible thing um and we know that later on years later in the controversy with the uh reform this became a very hot a very hot topic when if it's m to play with with organs and this type of stuff with um etc etc we're not going to get into it but the point was that we see from this tour that it was an accepted Min that they the took place when AR shabas and now he's going he's adding even another thing that what you were able to use a to play musical instruments at this okay um now just to conclude with um um last three ideas is as follows number one it seems at one point in time a minut came that um there's a minut says that um he says the aala should not light candles after her with a br only on a shabas so the question is what's going on over here only a shabas what why would there be aad to make light candles after the during the week if the is during the week okay anyway turns out muger says it seems that a that a came a evolved at certain point in time that women taka would light candles even during the week after the okay anyway so um professor sperber in his famous work mhag Isel suggests that maybe what happens like this one once the Min this is a minig that got misplaced so to speak once the minig became in ashkenas that kasas took place when a of chabas so when the first time is the lady lights is on a of chabas so then that's that's what was referring to but certain but then it went back we as we showed over here especially some at some point the M went back to Wednesday certain and certain places wasn't clear so they the amoratus is sometimes A Min evolves from not knowing where came from they they they me say they were doing what was supposed to be done on a regular Friday so they thought to do it even on a Wednesday that was the mistake that ended up creeping into minhagim of certain people which Shug as I said comes out against and just and the last two udus is like this the whole time I'm mentioning um is there any other sources about weddings on um ear um weddings on Friday so Lal as I I've I've claimed in the past that one sometimes one buys a book I have this cabala from different people I heard this Lal from Professor schne Al Lyman one of the reasons why you buy books is some you have to be able to show to people when you give when you have a Shear so recently came out a book two fat volumes and it's called the art of theba marriage contracts from the library of jts Shalom sabber these two massive volumes with picture Illustrated and there's all different things one could learn from it but n our discussion two massive volumes expensive so that's why I have to make sure to have at least one use from it publicly that is a lot of times the Italian cuas we see they're dated when Arab shabas so we see like I already brought earlier that there wereas on that took place even on a shabas many times especially in Italy we have the dating took place on air shops okay and then um that's one one um you attend with and then I said part it seems it's interesting what's one of the claims what's the reason why this Min switches from originally to be on Wednesday and then it jumps to shabas and part of the reason suggested has to do with poor people and everything so it's interesting I didn't even I wasn't even really aware of this but it seems it's it's it's a it's a which is they make before they make a special suda for the so I so I was asked to look into this a few years ago and I looked into it and I see taka there's a lot of interesting sources in Memoir literature that before they would make a whole fancy sud for the say the itself they didn't necessarily invite the but beforehand in these little they would make a whole thing for an interesting just one interesting marak about this and we'll come to almost the conclusion is like this the reason obviously is because is an important thing um we know this already from gar shabas the famous story where rea's daughter was saved um she was she was on the day of her wedding she was going to die with a snake by and then she was still alive and what happened was she it turns out she gave Saka before so we see Saka linking to the ready early M but and as I said I was able to locate other makas that they made the sudas they were giving Sedaka okay but this interesting IDE is like this the early 1900s an author who went by the pen name of shansi he started collecting and cataloging hundreds of details about every aspect of Jewish life in Europe he was planning on putting out a survey and then publishing it and he this he had this survey in in yish which consisted of 200 pages of questions that had in it 287 questions all about the Jewish life cycle he never got to finish the project but the question survived and this was what he and he began this and was going to show us a window of life before World War I Ander if you go through all these things you could see all different hug throughout of the Jewish life cycle so he talks about over here in the wedding section of the survey we find that his questions were as follows is the custom still widespread to serve a meal for the poor how are the poor invited is it custom for the bride herself to serve the food at the table what kind of food and drink are served do musicians play is it customary for the in-laws to dance at the poor people do people give gifts to the poor after the meal um do people give them donations is there a difference between men women and children etc etc the point is that this was a minig so even even if the so why I'm throwing this in is because the on one hand the reason why it was shifted was for the for the poverty but at some points in time when they were well off there was a special sud da for the but and then to conclude with this is we know that a lot of times throughout the generations the KAS got out of control with the fancy not only today with the whatever tus of weddings and stuff this was a a problem throughout the ages this has been collected by n Rak in two massive volumes a lot of the material about it the takas that were made for all these types of things throughout the ages but okay that's this that's what we'll conclude with um about this topic of weddings on Fridays and the thank you amazing I was thinking as you were speaking perhaps people who are looking to make takas for weddings um would find it beneficial to start scheduling weddings on Fridays right this way you have the sud you have the sh it's all one so the what so I I don't have it now but someone did send me a few years ago there was such a attempt of a of a movement in Earth Isel to do such a thing he sent me from the Press about it and it seems that and certaines they also do um have such a thing they did attempt to have such a thing okay fascinating thank you would you like to share with us a book recommendation from your mad okay so do a very very brief safer I think I didn't do it yet okay it's called um looks like this and it's from the what does this mean what's going on here so sometimes you will sometimes you find out about a manuscript and then it could take years until the manuscript is actually published so recently I'm reading the from and they say they made a discovery of a new manuscript that was written by in his own handwriting and they even bring a few pages from it okay so I assume just like if you're familiar enough with Maria there's many projects that still that 30 years ago they mentioned it's going to come out and sadly has still not come out so I thought okay this's going to be one of those things it's can take 30 years literally within a few months the whole work comes out and what is this work basically they found a notebook of the way before he gets to VNA as a young man in his 20s which where he wrote Tyra that he collected from all the different gum some it seems he heard from and he has them Al so you have a notebook of T that he collected on all different things on all different M he even has an index Al the par of material and it's written in the hand um written in the handwriting of the so we can know that it's authentic so it's a early window into the famous who is more famous for his in where he's a ding in v and eventually writes the famous so here unknown work no one knew about this work was recently discovered and recently published so for me it was fascinating okay thank you and we've mentioned this we just remind everybody that one by BRS five I don't have a better word Heroes but people that he researches and has a tremendous this for is the so this must be very special for him thank you very much BR for delivering this presentation even though you are in Isel times are uncertain but this is what we do this is what B does CL does we continue doing what's important we continue with keeping in mind everything that's going on daving and learning we continue doing and that should be for everyone as we began thank you