Special Pesach Episode: The Cup For The Visitor | What Lies Behind The Kos Shel Eliyahu

[Music] foreign [Music] it's a pleasure to be here for this special episode in honor of the upcoming YouTube of pesach this is going to be a fascinating discussion as we discuss the cup for the visitor what lies behind the case I'm sure everybody listening I shouldn't be sure but I'll think everybody listening has a minute that after they bench they fill up a coast and they open the door and it's an exciting part of the Seder whose opening is they watched the wine in the cup bubble as the Leo Novi comes and actually drinks the kais so perhaps we'll learn a little bit about this I must begin by saying that this episode has been sponsored by friends of ramosa hubner who's the mahaber of on pesach two volumes one was put out last year one was put out this year I know that he just did a interview with Nike Weinstein's Farm chatter podcast where he discussed the safer and impetus behind it and I'm sure abelia brought being the safarim addict that he is he lets me use that word I think he coined it himself um probably has the safer and could tell us very very briefly what the saver is about and before we hit the main episode Yeah so basically Rabbi hubner is which is two volumes as he mentioned so far is like this in 1869 one of the most famous populist Farm which has was published and then for many years different editions came out until more recently in our lifetimes the additional which opened up with even more people for its weird abbreviations now I mapped out a little bit about khayim in in the Sherman Heim kanievsky in a safer nachalisa and I tied this into the in general the style of them in discuss now but what is what is this particular work looking at it briefly is this fouls Rabbi hubner he's a descendant of the him and his father was also tremendous they spend lots of time over many years learning it very carefully and they decided to make an adaptation of some of the materials into English and the focus the work does is fouls first of all it's in English it's very clear very Crystal Clear actually it uses charts for example to break down the the complicated alumnus of the military he's famous for it also gives you the necessary background a lot of times one of the things you have to learn you have to look up all the various kamaras and and other uh tices in some places he gives you all that also it's not it's not a simple translation it's he adds tons of insight with lots of new material that they found through their own research from hundreds of farm the layout is beautiful this we have to give credit to Mahon alizade from Rabbi shamanowitz and basically this makes londis much more accessible in English there's almost nothing similar currently out there so we highly recommend this work and we thank them the friends of Rabbi hubner for sponsoring this episode of cover PESA okay so let's jump right into our topic location what are the I guess brief introduction and what are the sources you'll be using to Enlighten us about the question Leo and then I would love to hear what are the earliest sources where the Coachella was actually mentioned the one famous uh quote I don't know I can't even Recall now where I saw it but it's you know Kirsten right we know are connected Yahoo so where does that come from we'll also be discussing in so many places at once is that even a question um and so many other fascinating discussions let's not let's try not to get at too many rabbit holes you know regarding Christian Leo and keep this episode to 45 minutes to an hour we're trying to keep it to one episode okay so here's the story oh about 19 years ago um pesach morning a friend of mine's father comes into shul very cynically and says it can't be that there's a real source for Elya Navi coming to the Cedar and the Leo and everything he found it very hard to believe so I took it upon myself as a challenge to check into I'm fond of looking and exploring the origins of and hug him I took upon myself already immediately that the first day I think it was the first day of yantev ready to start researching it and using my my my vest tagada collection and other materials and I and I started looking I believe it was already I headed off right away to jts and to to find materials about this topic about 10 years ago I published some of my findings in English and then updated again and the plan was it's original to put out a Hebrew up more updated article afterwards which I wrote most of it however sadly a rabbit hole it basically became a rabbit hole and I'm working on a small book on the topic one of these days I hope to publish okay now the the questions that we hope to at least touch on over here is what's the earliest origin of the kaisha lilio when there's one pour it in the beginning of the say there after after benching why do we do it is there any connection is there any connection about the opening of the door with this minig does Leo actually come does he drink from the case um what happens afterwards what happens with the case afterwards do we drink from it or do you leave it out on the table the whole might all these types of things so we hope to touch a little bit about everything I'm not going to go into every single detail um as time we are trying to keep it under a certain amount of time as I like to always mention I'm going to mention this very very briefly what sources did I use so on El ya Navi this endless amount of sources about him he's such a significant player there's so many different things example let's say for a bris which some of these questions actually are relevant does Aliyah Navi really come to the brist so that is our lead Makai is for um How does it go to so many birthston at the same time and then this famous all these different questions they they relate over here but we're not going to discuss about Bruce right now okay now the Marshall there's a tequila based in an early kabbalistic mini we say oh which just is just an excuse to that many svard them say it daily hasidim say it weekly others say it um other times and basically it's a piece of Zaya with Eliana not I believe it has a connection that early on Navi is supposed to be the author of this piece I'm the only reason why I'm just throwing this out there is because just now a new saviad relating to this um piece in zayar just was just came to print within less than 24 hours and the latest issue of yishun and um there's other books on Eliana Navi there's a fellow Daniel Matt recently wrote a book about Elio Navi but there's so many I'm not going to list all of them there's various new phds that also tie into our story of kaishalio there's a fellow Lord Jacoby who's written um he's Pub I think he has plans to write about six articles all relating somehow with aspects of questions at least two or three of them were published and I could if someone asked for the PDFs of them I'd be more than happy to send them out in general we know mini gastro Tyree and so not only is the mini guitar heat but it creates an excuse to learn a lot of Taira and that's what hopefully we'll see today now in in 1958 a small little work came out on the suggest Leo was by a fellow rabihudavida a tremendous person I'm not going to get into all the story this person is a rough in different places and he ends up making Aliyah and he was a prolific writer in numerous places he wrote journals swarm and Yiddish Hebrew he's expert in all different types of things somehow the topic of Elia Navi coming to the say they're fascinated him and he put out this booklet called kaishal Eliana in general most people that write about it either they steal from him and don't give him credit or they give him credit but he basically with tremendous the keys of of that period of time put together a lot of the materials based on sources in German Yiddish Hebrew and different things but you and we have to give them my courage to tell you for what he did for the topic he also was excellent writer he writes in a certain Style and but we have to judge a safer based on the sources that he was able to see the not every safe was available at the time and stuff came to light as time went on which we'll mention along the way now just one other point with him is while I was working over 10 years ago while I was working on the topics I decided one time I was in the library I didn't have my copy of Kaiser Leo of his handy so I just decided it was in the barry land Library decided let me look up something in the I need to see something inside as we know ICS so I order up the copy that barilon has and I see all of a sudden entry it says that they have the autograph copy of Reba Vida with additions that were never published I immediately get all excited I order it up and it comes up with a whole bunch of papers and a lot of additions and it seems that he was planning on making a second edition but he died beforehand I took this as a similar with tracking down his grandson getting permission from Barry lion University and I released this all in a volume 10 years ago with all the new editions of his on the topic and it looks like this uh anyway now um okay so that's the the one of the main sources and then of course like everything else there's dozens of articles about it which we're not going to cite all of them each one um everyone always has something useful in them one other point of sources is there's a lot of times such a thing you also have to look in order by graphical materials and we're going to see a little bit also modern people that went off when they talk about their memoirs about being Jewish and also Christians how they describe you the uh okay adcon for the sources foreign okay so now tell us you know I'm this Lakewood guy if I open up my swarm where am I gonna find the earliest sources for Coastal so so interestingly enough it's like this one the very important forum and children so the less known but known is that the classic it was printed after he dies in 1692. in there we find now he's more svardy he writes his fouls the um that people would add into their case this is for everyone else and what the Chiron oh you say kaishal allele they would call it a kaishaif and I enjoyed this minute and what you do was you poor well like a lot of time you have wine from each other crisis so you pour the leftover wine into this cup and before the next cup is poured and then at the end we're middle of the soda they would drink this cup this is what the classical says this is printed in 1692. there's no connection to Leo hanavi but it was called and this was probably one of the most known early source of matter now he's he if he's saying is Ashkenazi mini okay fast forward manush in a work printed around that time in 1696 from the hakayaka verbiakov he writes and he was arrived in Germany in in different places in Germany is so here it's a little different they will pour a special case but but when did they report unclear fine now at this point there's no connection coming to visit the Seder another early source is a little later in 1728 where my is Princess Smallmouth in the back of a safe someone asked the question what's shocked that they they have this case now here it seems interesting they would prepare a bed that the balabayas would leave it there um at the end of the Seder canara and they will leave the case with the wine and they would say it's Lachey Melia Navi he's and it seems the person was asking is a strange minig is there anything behind it or is it is um okay says no it's Avada do not make fun of many Israel and then he says you have to be hiker um for this minute is and he gives a reason which we'll get to Amir tashem so here we see a different meaning so what's going on over here these are the earliest sources and you're seeing different things now actually says what about the pesach move and he says he doesn't know what shot in that minute it's a it's a mistake to pour the wine into the tape from the from the leftover wine and stuff to put into Zozo and he doesn't understand what the reason is and he and he does not do recommend to do such a thing okay A little later Rebecca vemden and his famous which ends up becoming very very famous says we prepare a case a big case and we call it early on here he adds in a big case but again when exactly why no reason given okay A droplet a little later that's 1745 1782 we have an iron vermaison is safe from ire are a very interesting person he says they will do it wouldn't have to pour um but then he says an interesting reason basically is that the kids would ask and they would and he would say it's like for Elio Navi and it's sort of to avoid um um people that would make fun of this type of meaning so not really that elianavi does come just people would say what's a foreign so again what's going on we're still in the dark what's behind this minute we get a little further in 1803 there's a fellow review who's A mashallah from you shall I am he puts out a safer and he writes there he's now he's referring to minhagima view shalayan for the most part he says and you fill it up and you drink it middle of the suit of women and kosher this is mamish similar to the what the character brings down you go a little further the rav says that you pour an extra cup and you call it Leo again why when we're it's still unclear because I'm safer we see that the the those that record them talking to some Cipher they were at the Seder and he would he would have a very nice cup but here he says other people did not drink from it interestingly enough in another place it says a talmud is made that the samsafer will take this the from the Esther Maca is the when you pour the wine he will pour this into the kaisal Elio interesting you go fast forward we have a um the uh he brings them that they would pour an extra cup but again it's not found after Marshall it's at the beginning of the Sailor kilo so you basically have extra uh copper meaning they say they're very strange okay talks about it um um it's also unclear exactly when it was done and the mishnaburra also brings down the minig and he even brings a reason which is unclear what his source for his reason was but anyway the point is we're in the dark we see a minute that's called that they called the Kush why it's been called casually well it's exactly being poured unclear and what exactly how it works okay now just to um conclude this part is that I mentioned this autobiographical information always that's very helpful I'm not going to mention all the different sources just briefly there's a fascinating autobiography from a lady Pauline weingrove her What's significant is her father was review Huda Epstein and he wrote a say foreign for a period of time he also learned the safer has fascinating information about the world of lit up and this daughter of his Road autobiography many years later in 1912 it's published in German anyway she starts talking about the Seder and towards the end she says basically they were poor the cop a large silver goblet was filled this is a translation of German in the middle it was put aside in the middle of the table for a prophet Elio and she gives a reason behind it similar to some of the reasons that we'll see later on and then she says like this we children firmly believed in the popular tradition that the prophet Elio came unseen and took a sip from the cup without moving a muscle we steer the cup to see if it would move and we were convinced that he was present and that that got us scared then afterwards all the cups were then filled and then he the Father the this would instruct the servant to open the door and then we would begin to say et cetera Etc and that's it now interestingly enough and some of the translations of the of of this biography they took out this whole passage I have no idea why not one other source and then we'll move on to the um moving much faster is in 19 in 1831 it seems there was a in vilna there was some type of xera and it was affecting the basak forest they wanted to destroy the basak forests and stuff like that and they the you didn't were very sad about it they couldn't do anything about it anyway it seems they were going to destroy even more at a certain point in time right around pesach time and these people come at night to to they were going to destroy even more parts of the space aquifers all of a sudden someone dressed in white who lives right near the basic virus opens up the door he was wearing his Kittle and he starts saying because he was being mazmin who Elio and Navi before he brings his case these kids they saw this guy they got all scared they he's right near against basic fire so they were assuming it's a ghost I don't know whatever they ran and and in short the Zara of destroying the base how Mig of the of this basic virus was shut down so to speak so okay this is a cute story this is a legend that they would say in vilna in 1831 fine whatever you could take from this anyway okay now we move on to further um into this story fine so Mr Shem you're gonna give your history of ghosts throughout the ages right that's a different episode one day yeah one day looking for a sponsor goes throughout the ages in the talmud no afterwards um yeah after the time fine so you brought us until 1831 um what happens between 1831 and the 1980s anything happened between then and what happens in the 1980s okay so so interestingly enough we're gonna jump first we'll go backwards we're gonna go you said 1980. so I said you always have to judge a person based on the sources they have in 19 in the 1984 Mahoney had a project called methyl Taurus which still from time to time does release material relating to ashkenaz and they printed a book originally was printed in their Journal Maria eventually in a safer from Zalman bingo and he who was he he's a talmud of my real an um which we actually mentioned um recently in the site episode who in this this revinga dies when in 1471. in his safer he here comes we now have the earliest source for kaishalio and he says that there's a minute that some people have that they pour a bitcoise uh sorry put in the table Nicola and he says then He suggests maybe it has to do with because if Eliana is going to come he needs to have cups of wine so we have this cup at the at the table so he says he so he's just trying to come up with a reason and He suggests this possible reason but not that that is the reason and and also we see that what's important is taka we don't see him beforehand any mention of such a thing called so here this might be in his time it started whatever that means also that obviously needs to be explored in general and you find such a thing with anyway 1988 comes around and hunchline puts out something called minhagam of vermaisa from Shemesh and he also talks about that they will prepare and from here it sounds like um that there's gonna be a special guest and they would prepare navi for this guest who we're always being we're always waiting for him to come now this guest and this um we're going to return to in a few minutes well more what else he says in his piece but that's another source so here we have another source about it and this is also an earlier Source the last source that I'm going to mention over here is that Rebecca vemden wrote Harris on the passage which we quoted earlier so we already mentioned the Rebecca of emden um likes Dominic he says that they did this Monique but he says that that they would pour in the sheer the the leftover crisis that he's against you're not supposed to drink from something that someone else drank from um but that's a minute to prepare a big case for Covenant of Leo this he says so there must be a source for it okay similar to what we said okay one last Source just to throw out there just we're talking about new sources so in recent years of Schlesinger very interesting material so he also is published from manuscript and this also has a true VA on the topic fine okay now let's get further on into our story and it's his fouls I mentioned that that one of the sources that we to use for monogam in general and then hug him that you don't find in the nice you have to try look as an autobiographical accounts and accounts of people that went off to there so there's one such person over here and he will call Margarita but his first name was Auntie no uh I'm gonna forget it I'm not gonna break my teeth on his first name but anyway the point is like this he's the son of Akash of the time and he writes an attack on Yiddish kite after he goes off to Derek and comes a Christian in the 1530s and he's referring to Leila seder he talks about what happens which he says to curse out to and then they open up the door and then someone who comes into the room as if dressed up as if he's Navi that he's coming to say that mashiach's coming and he says this is a very they're being misalzal in mashiach making a joke from this this is what he says in 1530. so we see over here that what's what's interesting is here we're having 15 30 this is an early date um earlier than almost all the sources and there's something about opening a door Leo coming to visit okay but this does not tie into kaisha Leo interestingly enough a safer a different yakisha safer that was published it was only published in the 1720s but but the author was dying on the besden of the schlot we've quoted him in the past in different episodes so he says by what did they do by Hamas how nice is that someone when they would open the door someone would come in dressed up like Eliana and he's praising the meaning why are we doing this to remind us and that we believe that he's he's giving a whole different spin then this son of Jacob my goals interestingly enough it's sort of like some people say it's more like just to get the kids away keep them awake to surprise them to make it interesting for them this is also what's behind it um and there's a lot of sources for doing such things during the say they're all different types of things there's a different uh share to discuss the different mahogany that we do to keep the kids into it but interestingly enough not only is this um this fellow this Christian Fellow or was a machine actually against this meaning but the Makar Khan writes this that they do that they have someone dressed up and everything um it's it's it's it's a producer okay now now let's move on into this um to the next topic which relates to what we just said it's interesting because I should have spelled it out a lot of people always say that this is so this is a very this is also a safer that was only published in the 1980s or manuscript an incredible incredible safer in archive okay now moving on which continues which which relates to this last thing which is and seeing stuff is like this various people have pointed and I'm not going to give the long list but you David is amongst them point to if you look at Jewish art which we spoke about a little bit at the end of the episode that we gave last year that there's a many many haggadas that um which have pictures are this picture I got this and we throughout the ages and not only that we now know in the in the times of the reshinam there's manuscript I got us that are full of illustrations and the question is what are they for and who is the audience so obviously a push-up shot is it was to um it would seem there was to get the kids into it they had pictures pictures today we know all about comics and everything I'm saying there's all different types of our Goddess from all different companies currently today I believe korin has our God but um but there's dozens of our guys with pictures and the point is to engage the children so early on already they've been doing this now at the beginning of print they've been doing this so there's illustrations in hagadas and a lot could be learned from these illustrations but for our purpose is many of the pictures you'll see around Sheikh Hamas is a picture of a donkey an Elio someone looks like Eliana Vienna shifer so the connection's obvious there's some type of thing some type of connection between and um and the donkey that's taking place now that does not interpret there's no picture of a kite in MO in almost all these I got this there's no picture of a Kai shalelio but we're opening the door and we're inviting him in um or as even the yasifayments when he's talking about it it's someone's coming in it's early on Navi to remind so you see there's some type of thing going on with Aliyah Navi coming to the actual scene okay now interest and and this goes as I said you could find some pictures going back to the Middle Ages even before a print fine so we have some type of Macar in numerous paintings and art that Elia Navi does actually come to the Seder it sounds like okay back to I mentioned that an early Source was he talks about this minute and he says that they will prepare Christ then he says an interesting thing he says maziken when you say the name Elijah Navi as he can go away then he says as follows when you're opening up the door by and people saying to come so we want to chase away the mazikim so we say of his name then he says his fouls um some places they have pictures of mashiachenelio why bishulatinikas for the children but he says as follows not to tell them that elianavi comes but rather then you see the picture yes they're gonna say the name Elio this is a whole new different picture in the in the in all those illustrations that you see it's not because takalyana he's really coming and everything which there is makair's third as we said from the yasifayments and others but that he's saying is it's just a schooler to to protect us from azikim and and as a matter of fact there's different reasons which we're going to get to why do we open up the door under Layla say there when we um so one of the reasons that of the many different reasons that's given let me see if I can find this right now yeah we open up the door because early in early ages there were people that they would they'll be always malshinim on Jews and that that they're cursing the malach and the so we opened the door to say that we're not we're not referring to this um we're doing this for Shalom but then there's a different reason some people say it was they open up the doors because there's always the famous stories that people grow up with um that they that there will be uh blood libel and there will be a they would just open up the door and Discover it so it has to do with that but anyway but the point that I the the point over here is this vowels and and to conclude with this piece is his files even though one could say you have the art and it shows pictures of Elian Navi and mashiach or something looking like and that's what you interpret it's it's rather just to when you're opening up the door um it's a chase away okay but this gets us to the next question and that is where does the minig of opening up the door come from so interestingly enough the Rama brings this down it seems is makara's mem hey ratio base in general that abbreviation stands for Bistro Bruna that is a minig by you open up the door what's this have to do with because it's and we don't have doors open you open up the door okay so but over the year it says in the Makar with them should be right to come and this is where is the Makar for this so it's the arzarua um an earlier we're missing going and other makairs that they would open the door now interestingly enough in certain it says that you wouldn't have the door you wouldn't have the door when you go to sleep at night you'd make sure to leave open the door which is a whole parchment in halacha about it but it says the point is that he should find the door open so this is again something to do with Navi is actually coming to the Leia Stadium anyway to just get moving over here is a spouse the Marshall there's a Flawless son in his incredible he's talking about he's giving muscle to his Caleb and he's saying you know all these rich people they don't invite guests and he says in the beginning of the say there what do we do we all they make sure the door is locked I it's little shimurum but they don't want to bring it on him and when he says they're really lying and also then suddenly they open the door which will cover your Navi to come into the house so we see already in in the early 1800s such a minute that they opened the door so that Elio and Navi could come in now everyone grew up with stories of different that they had Eliana come to the Marshall there's a the famous terrorist has said for he didn't let anyone come to his seder and they say why um would come and he didn't want anyone else to be there okay remember Zacks writes about to say their that um that uh that um he was able to from the story that he asked him something he was able to understand that who was that to say there none other than Elia Navi okay there's another story Le Marshall the belzareba um such a thing and there's and there's many stories in the in the hasidisha literature and Other Stories that that Eliana interestingly enough there's but is much more much earlier sorry sources for such a thing that comes and that's as follows there's um a story with that it's brought now this um from the 1300s in onwards numerous numerous stories of hasid became famous and the way they become famous they were told over through different venues and they were published in Hebrew and Indie Edition in in different places so I'm just gonna one story one such story was that there was a there was Aid review in in the same place in the same city of hasid and with kitsar the point was that Leo pesach he saw that reviewed the hasid was very happy um the kid sir he asked them why and uh he said because with us he was with us she says I wasn't very good to see him this other person says he says no don't worry Aliyah Navi was standing closer to you than to me but the point was that Eliana here we have Navi coming to the Layla say there to the Cedar Avenue and this was a source going back hundreds of years such a story that they're such a story and and as we know till today what opens up all the numerous agadas you'll always find such stories with different ways now what's the reasoning behind us so ramesha Huggies who I told you in the original I mentioned earlier he ties this into that just like there's a meaning of Leo where Elio and Navi comes he he connects that somehow that we show um we're doing the carbon pesach properly this was the original time when the when when Eliana would come even then and that's why we say which is referring to damilo and this is the Israel um that Elian Navi comes to witness that we're all doing the Mrs properly this is what Ramesh um says more by Rico Savannah would okay fine now veering away from this topic for a minute of of leonovi in this aspect a completely different interesting Mahala to explain what's going on behind the kaisha lilio and this can be found remotely gimpolyafi a great talmud of The Villages he says it's really has to do with um and and to remind us that who's going to be the guy who we always find and how long he's supposed to and you're supposed to have things even at a studio he's supposed to do different things so everything I just say there is gevaldic but there's an important factor you have to remember of what was of the of the horrible that were that were the base Amigos and the carbon pasta and all that and that's why we have this channel yo who's gonna be the person that's gonna be guilas and that's why we say udaf coach okay this is what remarkable yaffi his son-in-law brings us down in his in his book his small little book that he published that was just recently published on this remarkable Affy and he was because very concerned in various things about Corbin this remarkable and he ends up making Ali at Israel this is a different story anyway um fine so the at this point where where we have mentioned various reasons and now I would just like to mention one more um famous uh famous reason which you alluded to all the way in the beginning and and then conclude with two or three others very short points and that's his files up till now we we still don't have a good Makar of where is it coming from okay so in 1905 it was a ayid review Rosenberg who Prince from manuscript and he says of the morale of the morale and it has two perusian ones called him and one's called divine and he says this is from a son-in-law of the morale um okay this hagada is published instantly numerous times okay he says interestingly enough in his introduction this is a kitsu of the Morales Hashem and it has devaram khadashim but he doesn't say what is anyway when you open up he says there's he ties to open the door with Elijah Navi and that's why we pour a case and that's why this is quoting the morale alpitas is gemara if one should have four cases or five cases then he brings down that that you should it's a school for paranasa and he ties it into Elyria and now you're coming to the bridge okay so because we have over here someone tying every everything that you want tied together beautifully tied together none other than who this is the morale the morale and this hagada published in 1905. okay so then we have it's amazing now what because because we're tying in now what's the sugar so just to mention this says um one one line from it it talks about um glimmer love it's a Halo the fourth cup you say hello Weimar highlight and this is the gearso but there's another gearso which is hamishi mean to say that there's a fourth cup and numerous manuscripts show this and got in them and reshining that there's a Makar according to retirement it is a fifth cup and when is this fifth cup around this period of time at the Seder ends up writing a whole countries documenting the story of the kaisuka machine and he comes out with a conclusion that you should drink the kaish kamishi and here we have the morale according to this hagada in 1905 Pro the christkomishi but the morale is going a step further he's saying the case is they don't talk about but they talk about so here we have the fifth cup that cup that all these people that we saw already from Reb from the from the classical and onwards they talk about pouring acai it comes out according to the morale that's the that's what it's not stamina cup that they were pouring they were doing the case what's interesting is none of those sources say anything about drinking the kaisukamishi which is what this song is talking about how does one combine the two so obviously it's a it's a it's an issue because this moral hagada so to speak is such a thing but nowhere else do we find and you you would think what this is a topic that everyone talks about the Risha didn't talk about guide him and they became an hugger amongst people already early on without going to the whole list to have a kalist hamishi but no one points out that that but we're going to get to what people say in a minute um to talk about it earlier than this morale but it turns out this morale hagada a lot of people end up using it as a Makar you should be drinking a Kai's hamishi but it turns out just like we know the story of the morale and the Golem which was also published by the same review of Rosenberg is not true it's baloney and plain simple English and I'm not going to get into explaining the whole story behind it one could be mine on the internet various articles of Professor malignment and of course there's gonna be people that are going to come and try to bring riots that really the morale did create a guylam say they're um we're not that's not the topic I do remember one year Rabbi reisman his famous Navi share years and years ago he quoted he said as a Dover partially ended off hashir saying that the guy will never happen and people are very obsessed what do you mean I grew up reading the Jewish press and there's all the stories of the xylem so it has to be true so he seems he got enough people um ask them a campy so he went and the next year he gave a 20-minute cheer discussing the proofs of that Morales Golem is not is not um as far as we know from the evidence could not have created but the story based on the evidence that we do have is not true anyway um so the point is this Hashem quote and they had it already right then he doesn't he has on this song There we don't see he mentions by the way I have this thing called and all this suddenly what what's going on over here anyway so as I said it's accepted by most people I believe that the morale hagada of Rabbi Rosenberg is not authentic and this whole sticker is but it's not the morale okay but let's go further but how does it link to what you were saying because we're now we're holding at the kamishi turns out it does and that is that like this why is it called yo is this follows because this is if you need five cups or four cups so they said put poorer kais kamishi but don't drink it we call it because Eliana is Gonna Come Bismarck and he's going to tell us what's the real so that's why it's called not because either but because it's a suffix and we know who's going to be patient all Las Vegas so they claim this is from The Villa going most likely the villain going to not say it but it's possible to find Zelma goal is said it okay there's a lot of interesting material about this I mentioned this larger Kobe wrote about who wrote about it also the the earliest Source it seems from a Hebrew 1837 from Levinson interesting person but it we won't go into all the pratham due to lack of time I want to keep this episode only to one episode I have rahmanas on everyone but the point is that the the according to this reason whoever it is a hush of person definitely said this vart and there's a long list of the people just to mention beautiful um he seems to say it also and I I collected a list of I don't know maybe 15 20 people that's that say that say different aspects of this verse they also tied into another nakuda which is as follows we said you're opening up the door and the door also ties into we know um what's going on you're opening up the door but didn't we say in the beginning of the say they're called so why are you opening the door all of a sudden at the end so the answer is because in gemara there's a Dion we only have Arbor crisis why because of Zuko's so we only do things in peers so one of the um so we say so it was because there might be a reason why one can not have to worry about it and he would be able to have a fifth case so this is also a Suffolk that that again would be in certain versions of this piece of Tyra with Eliana being patient is also in the city of zugos and um this is found the zugos aspect with opening of the doors and the basalavi okay anyway Mercedes so so what what comes out is what what what's that we don't have a mate we don't have a we don't have a clear exact definition from all this material when exactly is it happening and when um and what exactly is behind because according to all this this has nothing to do with all the material that I recorded in the beginning and this is because nothing to do with Helena coming to say the attacker okay now but let's just conclude with two very short points and then we'll conclude with one last question and that's his files number one as I mentioned again a few times this review Davido princes this countries and he brings down which I quoted earlier says that some people would sleep the whole night next to the question though but ravida doesn't know why then He suggests it has to do with the similar to the nakudov will we unlock the door to show we eagerly await Elio mashir's arrival and then he says like this maybe there's a record yaisher from The Truman sedations the talmud recording what the Truman suggestion did he would sleep on a bed that he learned on during the meal he doesn't know what the reason for is excessive could be and you're sleeping dear to remind himself of this content on pesach night we are eagerly and that's the one of the nakudas of this whole thing it's not about if Eliana lovely does comment you the kids are looking if he's drinking and everything the what keeps on coming across is that on on the Layla seder and this refers to the vivaci actually we're supposed to be thinking about the future and this is clear in the Cairo so Let Me Shine in the garden I'm about to opening the door that this is a night that Elio Navi technically could come and we want him to come we're praying that he should come okay anyway will keep the cup the entire night and he would use it for when the kiddish the next morning this would seem to be some type of connection with what the Truman sedation possibly according to Abu davida's connection is okay one last um issue over here is his where he asks you can't bring a full loaf of bread on the table before benching why because it looks like it's some type of avoidazara this is a whole sugya in itself and it's in archaim there's a there's a similar about it we'll talk about it so what's that why why could we prepare a glass of high shalilio and not have to worry about this shash so he says it could be that was only a time in the time that's why we don't fall in the gemara such a thing because in the times there was such a crash to leave because it was a people over there by the Zara but today we're not amongst who worship today this is not as opposed to earlier sources okay now I'd like to conclude with one lesson including that is his fouls so you are Navi we're talking all about early on Navi and this is a question again that some cynical people ask and we'll see one such cynical person in a moment how does come to so many siddharam foreign people say if he's drinking so much wine he's drunk okay there's a different question um I I've seen brought down recently he might have been a nuzzier so how are we even putting out the wine for him okay anyway it was a yid um a terrible evil yid and we're not going to get into the story but his name was yaakov Frank we have his order biographical accounts and this is in the 1650s he's writing as a kid they would do the um in his house okay and then he would say he says like this but he asked how could people believe in such a thing that you believe that he's coming to so many houses he could go to so many houses and drink so many cups of wine anyway it seems that people were bothered by such a question so just to address this spouse the the the request says so let's say when there's a bris Milan Shabbos he has to be in a bunch of places and furthermore there's he has malachim that he sends to all different places and they could go everywhere and that's how it works it's not that eliyah Navi himself is coming it's to sriim of malachem okay this is above my pay grade but this is and it seems by Elian Navi people were very bothered by this because by Bruce Mila because as I said Eliana becomes every briss how could it be very bris even though I've obviously say that there's more happening at once and he has to be he has to synchronize the timing so this is from the early 1400s that he also talks about he says I understand we we believe that the malacha Mavis could kill someone more than one person at the same time so we see there's a concept obviously so he says it's not such a Kasha but he was he was writing this evening because this is what people said and uh Professor Daniel Aster is all article documenting um different aspects with this and I saw so Volume 2 came out from manuscript a few years ago so in the in the newspapers in a caramel in the 1850s 1860s I believe it was this was a subject that many people that a few people wrote in I did not collect the the Articles yet what they say but basically how could it be that Elio is at a bunch of places anyway so this is this is just a a tam tiima of a brief discussion of what lies behind the um the cut for the visitor Elio Navi and this is just some of the nakudas that one could um find if one researches the topic but obviously there's tires in the diversif and one's more than welcome to jump into the rabbit hole with me and continue to journey and see what many more people say about it but that's for a different time thank you very much once again would like to thank the sponsor a friend of Rabbi Maisha hubner go out get yourself two volumes you'll see a fascinating safer I've already seen it and it's kind of style and um really beautiful to enhance understanding the various Mitzvahs that we do on pesach Rabbi broad thank you this was really really fascinating again if anybody would like um access to some of the PDFs that I brought mentioned please email him eliezerbroad gmail.com question questions suggestions critique and everything all welcome any language or myself moisha suede my email address is suede M at o u dot org everybody should have themselves a wonderful day