Reb Chaim, The Mishkan and Bigdei Kehunah

[Music] welcome back Rabbi Dr elzar BR and we are here to get back to the kki series why now because we are currently in the of par truma and we have t vak and and the par is discuss the mishan how the mishan was built all the C of the mishan and kki has a push on the BR of so we're here to discuss that and we'll also be discussing how this Su of the M the of was learned throughout the generations and I'm sure there are many many other on it I'm sure will touch on that keski where he draw his writings from which farm so this episode has once again been dedicated anonymously and without further Ado Rabbi Dr BR okay so you said so perfectly in the introduction what we hope to do so we'll begin like this um kki as I've already mentioned in all the various episodes he always he has something to say about everything all the areas of Tyra so the aspects of the Mishka and the big deuna he has plenty what to say all the way in the beginning of his writing career already he's he's getting involved with it as we all see today so I thought because of the it's proper to it's a good time to talk about it is the next few weeks we um are laning these parishes and learning these parishes so through this we'll maybe give some tools had to learn a little bit about these pares also um and how they did Through the Ages how they learn about the Mish in the times of so interestingly enough there's not so much on the various in the b mdash or the Mish found in inar as see says about momentarily but we have an early work it's called which seems to be pretty clear from the times of the tanam now this work has very bad Lu when they say with the ma of the and this saer really does as we'll see had it not so many but we know Rashi ran and some others mentions them throughout in his work a few different places they seem to have had this work called in an earlier work from I guess called so we see that he had this and he brings it down but this work was only published in the 1870s from manuscript when the AR's son-in-law reached out to the and asked him for an at a manuscript that published that wasn't published so he published this work which was onb and in there is a whole of which we'll discuss shortly and um so there was another so we see that read ear even earlier than Rashi ran it was known but it's very very early we're talking about from the times of now when you look in your standard M we don't have there's not there's not there's not any material in theas and even now we have two mtas there is no material really about this these aspects now fast forward but some had it what about when when does it get printed so very worthy of many episodes ofano seems he publishes for the first time this br when we're talking we're moving now to the printing world to the time when stuff is getting printed it seems that there's no copy of this work survives except maybe one page somewhere but but according to all records it seems it's clear he published it and it's there are times that works were published and completely lost it's his own subject bottom line is in 162 one of the first works of the G that was published was called Mish in the back they published the you know like a sort of afterthought not even the was barely used and the does not have it's not all that popular um fast forward now it happens to be that there's a much shorter version something called the brys what the exact relationship to that work and the also needs to be clarified but again an early work but this was published in the Y so y was more available so if someone was learning was look interested in looking to see what howal learned up these truma specifically so you had those people that looked in Y which wasn't all that many you had somewhere somewhere to look to find early K anyway again what happened 1702 somewhere between 1702 and 1711 a yid wants to publish a work on the he writes up aish it's not clear if it's survived or not but it was never published okay so we seeing we're already up to 1711 it's be it's printed once very few people have it and okay 1716 manueli a famous M actually um the when he writes about him says it was known that was most of the week he he barely ate and he wrote many one of his early Works was which is very involved with the now just to show and based on previous episodes this will definitely bring it out just to show how rear this work was and unknown as far as I'm able to see in at least doesn't mention anything about this I I don't recall such a thing find that the didn't see it or any mention of it even doesn't even have any entry about it and it was around as I said now he knew of the but it's not clear how much he even from the entry with the he can't even tell you know how much even looked at the it's not a a real big entry now 1782 the is republished so from 1602 to 1782 the Mish is is not all that you know sort after to work but it was published in 1782 why that's its own question which needs to be clarified but it's published it's one of the earliest so there which as an aside Gonic Works were not really available I mentioned this a little bit in in season two Ki this is where it sort of begins to be published this work but what's important is for our story today is in the back is the BR who's active at that period of time he seem he in his entry in twice he even has entry says this such a work called he says it was published a few times he's referring to this Edition in the back that has this and um and he says that tus okay now the did the gr have it I I suspect he did because I I'm pretty sure based on other places that he did have the a few RS based on the using the as a source for the Ramba we mentioned this a little bit in the we might have mentioned this in the episodes in season two the point is that maybe he had it but I don't even know how much he uses it a little later this in the early 1800s and uses the work a few times from based on this Edition that was published and he uses it to to explain certain things in Rashi because he was aware that Rashi had this as a as a um as a now it's interesting is that ra which I said has an entry about it and he's clear he was aware of it there were it was only published something like 100 years later wasn't published so different people put had harus on it experts one of them was which we've mentioned a little bit in the past we hope to get them again later on but bottom line is they assumed that they say a funny thing they say actually published the in the back of his M as far as I'm able to tell in the first edition of M published by there is no such work anyway the point is probably one of the earliest people beside um besides that's using this handling when he's learning these in truma and wherever else it relates to to understand to understand isman and then a little later the Mal the Mal is incredible work on uses extensively the a little a similar time period in uses it a few times these are not it's not a shocking thing y That's all into bottom line is there was a few times that was printed again but without any real thorough perim so there's no so the point being that that even if it's published other thanan Kiki there's no one really that's sitting and learning it or sitting and writing any perim on it okay fast forward 1960s kki is in his low 30s one of his first works that he decides to publish is something called now so what he he writes this is one of his first works that he publishes now just to point out already was on his radar screen before he was in his 30s in his late 20s when he puts out his kirat Mel that we spoke about on rambam where M Ram so a few times he uses it it's it's unclear if he's using it as actually that the ramam had it it's very good chance the r probably did have it the ram had a very vast library of kazal or just stom to point out different things based on his um learning of the relating to the r but he decides to write a thorough Parish on the BR so does this make any sense the answer is based on what we have pretty much put together in the previous episodes if it'sit if there's a few aspects that already uh make a lot of sense number one is that all the way in the outset of the episodes I began that there were four people that had on in different nudus they had influence onki I claim his father and the so this fits to for sure with the gr because you know by that but it could be whether the gr had it or extensive but the point is butki hears about a work of kazal going back to the T can be something very interesting for him now especially based on alsoas that we spoke about let's say with the seven the when there's no one writing about it that gives him an extra push to work on it now we don't have to speculate kki we already pointed this out many times in his Works he gives a and in the everything makes sense so first of all in this H he talks about he brings for starters he brings a Muma that um say showing that being in theas of the bdash ETC is is in the Bion of the of the bdash so that's number one okay then number two is he says like this you look at the T the t is yet we see even people don't know why they're not so then he says but now I have a major very few people as I said I just documented I'm saying basically the the main people is just the Mal and pretty much he says and then he throws in something which we've already met a few times by which says as follows and this was this is actually used by many to why one should learn which we we we had a whole episode about that particularly but also inki episodes we've shown a few times he he throws you this basically it's not a learn topic so number one he's saying the mishkan itself there's no there's not that much in the in um there t look how much the is and we'll we'll harp on that point in a second but more than that there's not so much in ch but we have a work early work so and used it so therefore this is all fitting inki why is going to want to go through careful so then what does he do so I made it my business to be mafish to be Mal to be now what he couldn't find the perim um and not as we just said there weren't that many there's not that many perum about it so then he says um he would he suggested his own Tyra to explain explain it now and this again he has a sh where he always enumerates the stuff and he he first he tells you the bring it he lists rash and others then he says I'm writing a with two parts one is it's called The Tam is in in a shorthand pish where he's Mal from from the from the Mal he has actually which where you'll show you comp um you know um parallels inim or garus or wherever that deal with similar things about what's what's it found in thisa and then he also will tell you he has a more extensive parish and and that he calls the Das and that's where he's he has a now to be clear and this is he's not trying to bring you down every single thing and pages and pages of T and make an encyclopedia on the mishkan through this work which he easily could have especially in those years he's just trying to take we have a work of kazal ancient work that there's come out no Parish he's Malak at all the stuff and whatever there's no Parish he's going to explain but and he's going to handle with it and this is you know if this related other wherever they are and many but he's not to be clear it's not trying to be an encyclopedic work which we end up seeing he does do by and then he says like this um I'm I'm my intention is to open it up for the to be able to this should be the starting base there's not there's pretty much nothing out there if one wants to even if you get a hold of the there's nothing out there so now you have what to to to use um and and taka this dream was fulfilled because if you fast forward in the 19 in in um 2011 in antp D puts out of work and it's a massive work on the with all the and everything of course starting with he deals with rki also but he's like onceki sets the table so to speak therefore the the floodgates come and he he does all the research and puts out all the material about it and then more you know you'll see in some of the works which we'll mention at the end they already start handling with it so sort of is the 60s setting this up and then it takes about 50 years until someone else comes along and Mish turns this more into going through with Mish being mfal in every single possible tag of this K he also says what am I doing I'm going to include Thea the I said that there's also something called says I'm including that also as and I'm writing a small Parish on it f now what kki use I mentioned up till now that um you know it's barely published so what does he use for this work so interestingly enough he says that uh the Edition is published in New York 1928 which was based on an earlier Edition um okay what's he refer too so interestingly enough there was a that published a whole bunch of Works called and and so one of the works is which we will discuss in a later episode more at length and this collected many exotic m one of the M that he collected was the that's what he used now we did this did get the bright where did this m fellow have the from so it turns out in 19 1908 it was mayor shom that published what's called an the only pretty much in Hebrew academic version of the Bry what does he do he uses all the that are out there he got a hold of various manuscripts um including the med which we mentioned and he put it out with handling it and and and such things now he's an interesting person his own story but R keski is not using directly it will be fascinating fromes he was using directly mayor shim's work but he isn't but bottom line is that mayor sh was was working up in manuscripts okay um now there's a lot to do in the in in understanding this work in the world of manuscripts there was there was one academic article um way back a few years back written by m Kahana and earlier there was a fellow academic that actually wrote an English transl academic who wrote an English translation of the Bry and then Professor movy wrote a whole review about it but that's but the point is that finally in recent years I would say through kki and then especially now this and some more work done in recent years this work is finally getting um you know some attention now to to backtrack one nud withi points out about these pares that these look how look look how much the is about them there's four par about this so interestingly enough related to this of his when he's talking about the Mish so so he sets up in the beginning he says like this look how much the is about if you look the amount of it's it's it's incredible so he says it's p that you're supposed to make it your business to learn everything and now obviously there's a lot going on not only in the aspects but there's also the nister aspects so interestingly enough for that nuda the Malin who as I mentioned he's one of the first people that Mish is handling of the and handling the he also has a special Parish in his standard malbin where he deals with alab what the C represent and everything like that showing the amus in the in O in in other not only the of what's going on okay just to throw that out there now okay so so far what we're showing is that there's this Andi um is is putting is is is taking us all of a sudden that the mishkan it's not just you know you learn the mishkan and you know that there's a few after you break your teeth on Rashi and the you know there's much more happening we go back all the way to fine now is there anything else that we could say about kki that we could learn from that we see here that could play out for us to learn how to learn these pares more so okay you don't have to buy it it's even on Hebrew books so there's two so first of all just to throw out to always fond of showing herki has this incredible incredible off the charts type of not normal type of aus so in a piece over here where he's talking he brings down about what's the word what does it mean so he brings you down aashi in that says that there are 20 names for in t that's rash says in I would never know that Rashi obviously but rki does so rki goes and shows what are those 20 names through his what does mean so you see a person you know this listing out okay it's this this this this this and these are the for okay say that's a cute side point but the question is so I said already goes through the but not he's not trying to be encyclopedia in what I'm going through one of the pieces over here and he's talking about the man so when you talk about the man this always gets into a very interesting conversation is how does the man look in in a standard there's there's two ways how the man could be me say is it that the branches are um arked or are they straight now in his Parish on the he says if you look if you look in the standard pictures they have the and therefore when Rashi says it's he says he says it's aash um and he and he feels and he says now what's interesting about this Isa there's a lot a lot of discussion about this and just to mention it very very biter is how does the look SOA most pictures is not um um straight like um it's not an it's round now the rambam in we have in his handwriting wrote a picture of how the Mana looks and in his picture it's taka straight similar to how this Rashi seems to say it's which is not which the the issue is and this many says this is how my fa my father wrote this picture and this is how my father the hell was supposed to be the supposed to be but in many many manuscripts of early pictures of how the Mana was portrayed Ancient Ancient manuscripts collected in all different places are not is not like this rash is very into this um that the r is the right way Rashi is the right way and a lot a lot of discussion about this a few years ago I was um in America visiting and I was by Bizen and Aron Bizen was always fast is always good to show you some you know new material he shows me a work called so this deals with a lot of different aspects of the and there also he has a whole about the picture of how the man looks with the manuscripts of the rambam and this gets into is it do we T know that it's the rambam who wrote this picture um which it seems that it is that it's it is pretty clear that the r wrote it now Rashi do we have any pictures of Rashi writing in the of the mishkan of the Mana so it seems in some of the manuscripts of Rashi it is but this is a topic that needs to be fully explored anyway the point is this rambam how the rambam illustrates the Mana kki brings us cader in his work which brings us to the next story The ra V we dealing with focusing on the Mish and the and and so we spoke a little bit about the general idea is that only did he work on which was a massive four volume Five volume work on the he started a work on R and the question which many people were always sad is whyi didn't finish it and he was busy answering the letters and this took him away from it okay all this we we discussed a little bit in the pre previous episodes the point is he started to write a work on RAM K and he did publish a small amount on which gets us to the the man isn't discussed in there and mdash mdash which also gets so this relates to our story of the and over there also he brings cader this picture of the rambam for different things he brings it many times searching through the so the point is he relied on this picture now so fine that that he relies on this picture how does he know about this picture it's published by Kapak but he never says the words Kap this is that they point out that he uses that kki does use Kap but for some reason beyond the scope of our discussion he doesn't say his name he refers to it as the or something what does he call it I forget already okay fine anyway what what what what do I see from over here is that for certain things seeing pictures is very very helpful okay now for this this gets us to the next big n in how to learn about the mishkan properly so just to mention um um to makus about this is like this the Rama Rama had and eventually bar of his he's known Asim the brother of the maral he was the r fredberg a fascinating one of the that he wrote that was only that was published in this Century on Rashi from manuscript from Rashi was called turns out he used to give to the whether was on chabas and he would go through the Rashi very carefully and he had tons of ours so in when he's talking about the he says that basically is that you should show the how it looks visual aid okay earlier on when he's talking about the U he says listen carefully to rash is a very big Rashi about it um and if you listen listen carefully it's very hard to picture to write it up but if you listen that you could understand it but to write a picture me say the ideal would be to write a picture but okay you know sometimes you can't but what what the take out over here is is kki or now the brother of the moral is seeing pictures is very helpful it seems earlier relating to the big deuna there's a piece recently published from the maril that also to illustrate he had an illustration of the to help his and looking in the Parish of the M which we already earlier said that that's where the the the is published so there he handles by whatever you know whatever is able to going through the aspects in the Mish and there he has at least two pictures so you see pictures is an important thing so this brings us to the next the famous ask describing his youth says when he was in what happens the rebi taught them and he says he showed them all the everything how he showed us all the and and this helped us and they said this helped me for my whole life I saw all the stuff so he's suggesting that this is a how to learn is showing visual aid okay so what this re um BL is describing it turns out if you go the famous so they had a a a big model of the b mdash a whole room and there's major pictures about it there's a lot of writeups about it Rab mandam in his book on has a bunch of pages with pictures showing it and they people used to come to see tours you see that visual aid is very important there was Bryce it seems he was expert in the of the of the Mish lived in and he also made a model hisra never was published but to teach it he had a model that he would use repia PR which we've mentioned in some episodes and mamari he once wrote an article collecting throughout the ages people that made models and this is a whole fascinating story my good friend zilber so he has collected many different places adding on to what refresh has of different models that people have made in their past bunch of years to show it to teach it I remember when I was learning Way Way Back In was berin elementary school so two nud relating to this number one is my rebi at that time one of the model one of the people that made a model they turned it into a book they made a color gorgeous pictures they took of all the different with explain explanations and it was a very very expensive rear book at that time my re my fourth grade Reby at the time was a Zachs and he had this book and he would that's how we learned it he showed us the pictures and I remember par truma basically what happened is every reab in the Hool Yesa would borrow the book for a few minutes and he would they to show the class one year I maybe was sixth grade seventh grade someone came and built a whole model of the Mish and they and we saw it byus upstairs in the B Med so so and I know from reading and looking there plenty of people that have done this and the point is it helps showing these the is so much as point it's unbelievable it's not found with other things the point is to T learn so now Point number one is through the point number two is the visual aid which evenki is using um in in his thing and as I showed um other people did this now this nuda a visual aid helping and learning is there's a lot to say about it I will definitely not um um attempt even to say all the about it but just just to mention two or three he had to teach and all um to teach his he had a model with of a male and a female that was made for him that was able to take apart to be able to teach his properly the the writes after he got his first job he wanted to see M to speak with the to see exactly all different things in the because until then he didn't see it so a when when he seeing it it has a ma major um impact that D gave to a fascinating work which had major illustrations forus it was a there's a very interesting Jew elzar fredman in his autobiography he describes how he made a for TR to help people learninga he made a beautiful with pictures and he got from the at the time they found it they said it's very useful because a lot of times visual aid helps one understand and the okay so this this plays out also but we will not go into that aspect right now now were the how else are there other works relating or tools that one could use or works and to point out our general question of learning about the Mishka so so actually one other which relates Toki is so as I said visual aid is very important so yeah um Al maral art scroll has a book they translate even into into Hebrew also where they have a fancy book with pictures to to teach you how to learn about the mishon barus but is another there's another two volumes that I would like to mention because this plays out withi a in Cleveland he writes his whole story how he got to it his name is Asher D Myers um he's learns and tells and he it seems he teaches about the mishk and the big so he got into the sugya and he slowly slowly starts learning it and I'm unbelievable he puts out a work called M and sorrya one volume and another volume going through everything now What's significant what relates to our episode obviously is he has a after going through the and everything who does he write who answers him on everything hundreds of questions so here we have a person and part of the work is also to show pictures again not fancy color pictures but pictures because that helps but also going through incredible incredible Works um very Kai to have because it helps it helps they're talking about four pares is is majorly long um people always whatever anyway say it now just to throw out there relating to previous episodes with the was very into the 1960s right after he publishes it he gives it to was fascinated with he writes a bunch of artist also T tons of artist you see read in the 60s these young who became ended up becoming the future gum of Our Generation in the 1960s they're already being o in this aspect and it comes out okay now just to say a few more ideas on this topic um relating to had alert learn the um about these these pares so as I said the whole point um one aspect is that um visually but are there other people what how did they do it how did they learn it all the time so just I'm going to just talk about very briefly a few different interesting works that relate to this and some will tie back to kineski some won't um number one the in the 188 80s late 1880s there's a work called um MDES Aon I believe and then I think he has another work called paragan so it's published in 1891 and then it's republished again and he it's interesting is this work he discusses all aspects of the Mish the mikdash and um he gets AAS he's in correspondence with gim such as the nav it seems him and the nav were were exchanging diagram of how the Mish looked certain aspects of how the AR looked anyway he writes the saer so already as early as 1908 this um this piece of information I have from my friend zilber points out there was a work called B is also again on the on the mishan and he says that this it's full of and stuff that is's no for later on writes by about this that he has no idea what's going on how this person was able to write what he says in his you say it looks like a sophisticated it looks like has there there's obviously more to the story which I was not able to uncover yet because it does have he was in contact with he describes how he met Sim and Sim encouraged him to it sounds like to publish it so I I really don't know what's the story behind it but as I said people that were is in it already um are very against it now what about are there other works relating to these suus such as big deuna and M Etc so I'm just going to mention a few more marus and that is as F number one very controversial work worthy of its own um episode is from the famous just to mention about him uh briefly hold on one second in my mess over here so he publishes a work called Marina it's first published in Mana in 1573 now it was underappreciated in its time and it was even put in why that's not it's beyond the scope of our discussion but one of the suas that he was as a few is about the big including using works of Ando and going through all the now it's interesting that contrary to what people now it's known as the moral was very sharp against this others were against this but I was able to demonstrate um which I'm not going to go into now that the gr school was into this work such as quotes it numerous times and specifically with relationship to bigun the quotes at once the rashash was into this anyway this was a work early on already in the 1570s by Rus devoting a few chapters to the big fast forward a little later in Italy 1612 incredible work comes out this work is known as the from aam Pani I'm saying it wrong most likely but he's also from mana and he prints an encyclopedic work dealing with every aspect of the mishar the mikdash with Incredible yed of the realia for example when he talks about Kus he scientifically deals with every aspect of it based on his expert knowledge in sciences and knowing over 10 languages when he deals with the stones of the he covers every aspect all different things the music the it's what's going on in theer the saer needs its own few episodes which maybe one day we'll discuss more about the kits are fast forward 2010 and then more recently in 2014 they updated M with put out a beautiful Edition over 700 pages with a massive introduction and has har on on a bunch of harest in the safer and this shows how much there's a lot of value valuable material using this so much so that I remember when I was a B in the miror they were selling at that time this before put out the fancy Edition they printed a photocopy of it and to and I was debating should I buy it or not before theara kicked in and told me that I have to buy it but aen he came across the safer somewhere he was fascinated by it and he the story I read at the time was he stayed up the whole night and he always able to quote from it because not only because he's he was a so he was fascinated by this in this new addition from they show the different people that were into this point is this is a massive that came out that helps one it's good to know about to to help one learn these pares okay is there any other so there's another whichi uses a lot in his work on on when he talks about the bigun and even with some other aspects and this is from a I I I still don't remember exactly how it came to but his name was RA this is incredible incredible you um also worthy of his own um many episodes and he puts out almost a 500 page work they put it out from his notes after he dies called bigun again dealing with all the every single thing about the the the relating to the to the big day Kahuna and also even a little bit about the Ain andum aspects and some other things taken from his material his his kids put it out they have a beautiful H from ran where he writes about him rean knew him very well and he describes this guy he he didn't have any Stellar he wasn't he worked I think he a regular B bus in but this was an expert that in encyclopedia tamas when they needed certain aspects in the and stuff like that who would they consult this he puts out this incredible incredible work kki used it a bunch of times it's it's it's such an incredible work his other materials are also amazing even in the even in the academic world not that he not that that he needs from them but they also were able to sense um Professor sperber who is and these type of things um he also writes about this work um it's the work of a true with a tremendous pus applying the traditional methods to a relatively unexplored field the depth and detail of treatment is sometimes most astounding his sharpness and critical abilities glimmer through the printed word this book has a wealth of information on a little well-known subject we're talking about the big deuna those now fast forward to today of course this is much more but unbelievable what's going on in this sa now just to mention [Music] um similar a point with the which we will get back to a little bit more but he also in this work he's not trying to be a encyclopedic work as he is by but again he does show us his he's using unbelievable man of times a new re which fits into our season two episodes okay the stones of this is endless topic just to throw out there there's a zor who's very iic in all these topics relating to stuff that I touched on I'm not going to give a long list of his all the things that he wrote that could help us with this but he has a work called where he deals with and then more recently A friend of mine yesu ktz puts out a massive article in a journal Journal called in 2017 almost 100 pages about the identification and going through all aspects of incredible so you see here what the way back where the started and if you learn they were busy with someone comes along and puts out this 80 page work on the today we have the which has done incredible amounts of work and put out unbelievable amounts of farm and people that learn Kum are it's very valuable the materials that are out there and just to um mention at the end came across to say for just to include with these few works and there's many more um proper bibliography needs to be put together and when gets up to we'll discuss more some of these things as it relates to it helps with K and and all the different things but from massive work on the Mish the again handling he goes and he deals with a fascinating thing which I always felt is needs to be done is to compare the various pares of um to try to figure out what was being m in the different in par of truma and then you go into the later para how how it is um another discovery which this is published in the 60s was two works from one was aav from and fromi these are two Italians so we're seeing something very interesting this we have the big we have the we have we have different Italians that are being very o in the is there any explanation behind it so one hashar is they had a very rough time at this time as a matter of fact the didn't have a in front of him when he was writing it and ra K also didn't because there was the G against the sh in Italy at the time how they did it and what they did it's remarkable it's its own story not now but the point is possibly because of to to give comfort that Mah is Gonna Come maybe that's what triggered them to want to learn these the which relates more to the there was a work a work published in in the late 16 in the 1690s called also which has about the also so this work was a gorgeous work very unheard of a few years ago someone again took it upon himself to republish um then there's a few volumes um just I'll mention one of them from a it's called aisel renfeld a brisker and he's put out a bunch of spum that relate to all this and just now to conclude relating toi and all this do go to see any of these um displays of the real and everything so I come across in a book on the the famous Mal who wrote many many so he Al he has a p discussing a picture about's relationship with him and then they show how there was once big display and he went with R keski in t Aviv and they have a picture in the book where went to see the of the mishk which all wraps up to the point of of theud of using visual aid for the help of of these pares bottom line is there's a lot to talk about these um pares how was learned throughout the ages I'm just touching on some of the some of the interesting out there my brain is obviously Flo going all over the place and I apologize for the mess but I hope I gave over some of the and this goes back to our theme with kki he's trying to be Mish that is this that all aspects of the need to be learned and these four pares called of these four pares I give him a lot of credit for what happened the next until today even on this on these thank you very much just a comment on the saer ofers when I was learning in the brisky Yesa ER before I had white hair way back um we were learning and I remember using his safer to understand how the were made with the Cale exactly and he has every and every T and every Rashi and the and exactly according to every possible sh that's out there and how it was done beautifully beautiful like lit say for under myar right so I heard from a lot of people that's I heard from a lot of people that is andus they always point to him and it wasn't available for years it only came back in print a few years ago there was somebody else I don't remember off hand who he used who lived in Cleveland was a massive right he quotes him in there quot his name I remember I met this person said he thans he says he spoke to him thousands of hours thousands of hours I'm pretty I don't want to say but I I I suspect that this person is not alive anymore he's not alive he's not alive he's not alive I met him and he's one of these like brilliant people okay thank you BL