R' Chaim and Wearing Tzitzis While Sleeping

[Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome back Rabbi Dr elazar brat it's a pleasure to see you as we continue season three discussing the St keski this season and this episode has been sponsored anonymously all the learning that we learn and the knowledge that we gain should be an eer for his Nish questions comments please reach out to alaz gmail.com or myself sch.org sponsorship opportunities are available you could join Rabbi br's email list where he sends out all kinds of interesting and articles every once in a while so please reach out to him for that as well so today's topic is we're finishing we're going through theki wrote systematic perish on all them so today we're going to focus on tius one of the the I think the earliest one that R Ki wrote about was in 1962 in the same year he also put out a which will come into play also um today so we're specifically going to speaking be speaking about's Han which was he wore tius when he slept and we're going to talk all about that and some things that he says about that and what other people say throughout the ages so now we've already mentioned in a few recent episodes that a very a recent safer that came out is called Asus which waski recorded all different an hugus that he saw about The KES that he spoke to the kazes about and that he got from different people that he felt was reliable the say for he did not publish it for his own reasons he didn't publish it while he was alive but he did allow his children to publish it and they published it a beautiful Edition with notes and everything so each that he brings he'll bring why some he'll discuss it also and then they have fancy footnotes where they discuss it even more so here they bring down sorry so herei brings down that he um he would not this is what he saw about this is what he himself saw about and brings a few clus about this um and uh fine in the footnotes already they bring down um what's going on what's coming to and they and they bring you some other information now we already know thees did not wear T um did not wear tal cut at night when he slept in the famous aru not only didn't the also didn't this is recorded in the AR now what's interesting is what about himself so in general a theme that I've been saying um very often in many of the episodes is he's a talid of his father and tales so you would assume that what kki gonna do he's not going to wear titas when he sleeps at night interestingly enough in his lifetime an incredible work came out called which is a picture book of unbelievable gorgeous pictures of him we spoke about this a few times already and they also document his un hugus that they spoke to him about so one of them is he did sleep with his towels cut in a night and he explained why in the safer on page l l okay now after he died a safer came came out called mitv hugus of his and said also that he would wear it when he sleep except when on shabas L shabas he did not sleep with his tals cut and they discuss it over here and in this in this in this work called the mitz um one of the children talks about what the some aspects about it it seems different points in time had different hug us about anyway this is what kki was was n so here we're seeing interesting thing we're seeing him a little differently than before more original there he's not going like his father and his uncle the kazes so now interestingly enough um and what's and what I plan on doing today is to discuss where this whole where this story comes from why should someone weird sit us when they're sleeping why we're kind has do one way what's going on now it turns out that in at the end of has a whole passage where he talks about this because he's dealing with something in and we will discuss that and it's a great example to see in general something which we've been discussing for a long time already K's method this will give us insight into his explanation of why he was doing this an Huga of wearing it when he slept and we o get to see some insight in some other of his that as it relates to the topic so now when one opens up theisha in towards the end of it talks about this is in sorry it's in wow it's in says over there you should sleep with it's often okay now how does the Mish know this did he see the arel inside where where is the arel inside most likely not what's interesting over here is that if you look in the like which was a very important source for the for the um M he doesn't say anything about this if one's supposed to or not the which is also a prime Source many times the uses it a lot he doesn't speak about it however just so that the shouldn't get upset at me yes in the he does talk about that you should wear the Talis when you Talis C when you're sleeping deals with this in his so whatever the what beyond the scope also doesn't say this what seems to bring this Aral down now we are going to see shortly the earliest source for it but I believe it has to do with which was had had a strong influence on the M over here the end of he also has a big AR about the importance of from this AR and others about wearing Talus cutton the whole time F if you look we're gonna see soon does throw in this and we'll get to that momentarily however the flip side is if let's say someone opens up to um you'll find he says a very um a very powerful usen he brings down about about doing this and he brings down the and then he says only when you're taking a shower okay so here we see the which is a work it's after the M he uses the Mish and he goes um so you see what he says that everyone does it M what's very interesting is like this if you start and that's what today we will be discussing is what's the story behind this and the origins of it like this when you if you look in it sounds like they did not sleep with a tal cut it's also very complicated to understand exactly how they what the tius was in in the times ofal times of how they wore it how their clothes were differently than our clothes today and where does the T come from it's relates also to the to the braa which we know we wait our meing today is we um marry people wait to make a braa on the to have it a the Talis they have they don't make a br on it they have in mind when they're doing when they're making a br on the Talis and where does this even come from and how early far back how far back does that go anyway already the sh Chua brings in the Mish in the first in it says says right away the so here you could see um and that's true only in the times that did they start happening that they that they that they did start wearing it fine um there's many many from in his beautiful Sid bring some from garas which we're not going to go into showing that it's pretty clear even um in the times of kazal they were not wearing a Talis cut when they went to sleep F now where is all this coming from so like everything else we turn to R the r says and then and then the r um has another which he talks about if you could go into the and he says you can now there's another deal which is very famous in dealing with the Su of wearing it at night which is a rush we're not going to go into it now comes along the which is already pass where they spoke about the of when you were supposed to wear Talis and everything he says like this that the certain not to have a guy do the laundry of for Talis because it's it's a it's a be for it and also you shouldn't sh you shouldn't sleep with your Talus and he brings some about this and then he says we don't know people that are mock not to sleep with their um with the Talis okaya comes along to ra and says the the we to be you could technically sleep with it if you need to now the question is going to be obvious and this is what already over here explains this whole of is talking about what's different things is is could you go into the bathroom with it so the T has all over here and this everyone knows we're not to go into the bathroom with a tal G so there's some there's all different things what's considered Biz and this is what's going on in this Sim in and this is what the m is talking about this is what the and different times was certain places it was cons lying down with it might have been considered some or not and as so here throws in according to was definitely not a because he was talking about sleeping with fine but he doesn't but just to spell out is not telling you that you should so clearly right now we have sorry we have the Mish that's saying to like this AR and we have the saying that everyone's not like this so the question is how far back does this go so we have a very important we've spoken about the past he brings down on this over here he's talking about sleeping or not he says butal the whole issue is you can and not only that he throws in to sleep with the now he doesn't tell you where he's getting this from and in general if one's familiar with the he never brings down so I don't know what who he's talking about when he say comes along one of the first earliest Works written on brings down which we'll be discussing shortly and then he says they sleep with now here it's not clear what does it mean is very possible it's that's it's very unclear how he brings it down um how he's saying it but he says where is this coming from okay so here we have it but but he's not saying that he saw it in a specific he heard already and this makes sense already this is a work this when is this work coming out in the 1670s so he definitely is way past theel almost 100 years after theel so it's very possible um far great the problem now one interesting thing is in general doesn't bring much from the so that's another point over here comes along the and here is where the Su gets is Chained up very um a lot 1692 the is first published we've mentioned this many times over here he talks about he says like this that what you should sleep then he says like this brings from that what happens I don't have any right now says he's also not dressed at night so should he should say I'm from he had at night he was sleeping with the this is what says says if it's okay I can't mess with that if you want to bring me a from you don't have to say that he was sleeping with a T he had on his door when talks about the which get toit he says K which is that he's arguing and he's saying that no that you can't bring me a from the that one has to be that child is and that he must be was wearing Talus cuton at night when he was sleeping no because there's a way out of that Kamar Okay so first before anything question number one is what is this thing it says what's the referring to so again we refer you to the and the so they right away bring if you look in the different and all different authenticated from relating to you will see this and this from so and that when they write the where the saying they refer you to theas the answer is this is not true what turns out is that there was a called in the is code word for the way one could tell is one checks up to 60 65 times that it's mentioned in brings down this work called it's the which was published in about 1660 we don't know much about it but when you compare the lus one will see the exact language we'll see the exact language between um that the says in the so now what's happening over here is a fascinating thing if you look in the the talks cabalistic terminology why one should be wearing the importance of in cabala language why one needs to wear a t cut the all time and then he also brings from the the doesn't even bring down that part he strips the the cabalistic term and language out from the he brings you down and he's MF in it and now he in it he argues on it so we see a very important thing not only is he not agreeing with the with um not he's he's simply he's bringing it down being mfal in it and arguing on it so it's interesting is that that the first person who's really Bringing Down the is the m of and it seems we could prove this from many other cases we're not going to go into that now but basically it's possible one could say that the that the mug has a different intention where he's bringing down Aral it's it's it's a completely different story not for now but but over here for us in tius is does not hold that one has to wear tius at when one's sleeping that's why it's very possible the mug the the what's his name the M the Mishu doesn't even talk about that that there's a m over here because even though it's very possible the way he knows thatal is through the but doesn't hold with he HS that that that he does he's not going with he's as a matter of fact he's arguing on the okay so first of all a lot a lot of ink for the past few hundred years from 1692 till today has been spilled on this from all we're just going to mention very briefly a few different over here okay like this when you learn what's the talking about says that then it for their doorways then what happens is went into the and he saw himself naked doesn't have anything then and then what happens this is a famous unbelievable amount of material to speak about this gar we'll just speak briefly about it today then it says that you will not do a and then there's other famous gar now already over there in the about the story with DAV the mar points out that in the B he didn't have mza okay okay that's already so the mar already is handling with the mza aspect which is what the mag is really ending up using for to say that that's why at night he had a way out that the only in the he didn't have brings handles this umal and he says what do you mean let's say he was in the Suka if he was sleeping in the Suka so in the Suka it's Suka in mza so then that that's what it's talking about that's when DAV um so okay this is a interesting interesting we're not going to go into all theas with and and in his sa he throws out like this that at night he was being so therefore and then and there's other aspects others talk about different aspects that what he could be doing at night mitvah so you don't need to come out soza wouldn't be a good answer but the and therefore it will be better like but but I mean the says he was thinking and learning also goes with this and the also talks about such a thing then he says another throws in because there was times D was we know was was a general he was in the Army who was a soldier so War this is not going to help so then you're going to need to come on to that he might have been sleeping with a t cuton like Dara another time is that certain places where he might have been sleeping was with with fine um then he um War talks about it the also talks about it over here has where he defends the AR he himself we know from his that he was at night when he slept he brings a whole bunch of different he says first of all the you saying that mza mza we know and this we could already disc we mention this briefly in other in the previous episodes a little bit there are certain rooms that you're not supposed to have Aza so therefore that that would not be a good nuda but he was in a room that he was not he didn't have to have a goes with this and not only that it's not even you're not supposed to have a and maybe okay then sorry the has and two of other of his points will get too short comes along the and um has fascinating Insight over here and and we'll just say briefly he brings down a very interesting called so um brings down about this um that it's um sorry let me just see if I can add the L in here David and this is a Auda that it's brought down by other people so David we know didn't he barely slept what does it say David he didn't sleep sh he didn't sleep whatever sh is according to many that's a whole of of sleeping sh how much it is but it could be he slept maybe a half hour so from David you're not going to be able to bring any Ras anything um anyway but about him sleeping about situs not so like this the problem is the he so sorry so the brings down this safer called is published right after the and this basically this is trying to be and say that you don't need to wear similar to the you don't need a weird Titus when you're sleeping but the and and and you can't bring and basically you can't the can't bring a from okay but there's another it sounds like from this that that just because the did it that doesn't play a role for us so here interestingly enough goes by and says no you we do bringing ARA specifically from over here and the reason is is because when you look in the kavas ETC it sounds like is telling people to do this to that the of me say it could be me say there's a general sh and this is a very important sh in general let's say we find that was who said that a regular is supposed to be doing the things that the was does that mean just because because you see theel doing it you're supposed to do it so this is a massive sh very unclear what the answer is but in specifically this on says if you look at the brings down it sounds like one is supposed to do this on ha even if you're not on this on the level of the so to speak and so he was so he he's coming to argue because sounds like that we would not need to but what's interesting is is that it's not so P because if you look in the mag the mag doesn't know anything about this he has a doesn't say so it just says there's a cabalistic behind it it's not saying specifically for the and then he brings a from says I argue on it anyway interestingly enough is like this so in different episodes we discussed the had incredible knowledge in so here he brings that if you look in the mza is not even in the list mean say it's and and that will come out that that David never D was saying and yes he was surrounded by it and then when he gets into the Bas of he's all nervous he doesn't have that but mza wasn't even at all in part of the thing and that's why when is talking about and comes along and says what do you mean the is sleeping in a room that has a mza the mza is not even the equation because if you look in the there's a whole different gear of the not the way we have it fine who also says such a the the Mal also has such a also when he talks about now so a few very brief over here is like this number one interestingly enough we've quote in the past wrote his travels so it seems at one point he was having and he he had a different he M had just the opposite Mahal in that Mahal some wanted to bring a r to the that you're supposed to sleep with a from the and it sounds like the defended not to we you say not like could be at a certain point in time based on new information that came to the the changes mind the it's a very interesting piece passage in the if you learn this piece in over here what he says okay another piece of interesting information is he's talking about this which was a work for someone traveling but this work was accused of being atian work whatever that means deals with this was very um was not into the safer so here we have being such a saer so this goes into a whole different discussion one day we'll discuss is and all these types of things we Pro we once mentioned briefly in the of if you bring from and if is a bad safer good safer and what hold okay anyway fine but anyway it's clear the argues on the that that I already pointed out now when you look in the which is why Mike excuse for partially talking about this at the end of it says like this doorways so we see seven and we see that mza is in the thing so we see right away and thisi says over here in his Parish he brings you down the and he brings you down the whole about if one is supposed to be wearing when you're sleeping so this so he he it over here so he says what about that which we already said in the previous episode was very says no you don't bring me a rise from and because if you look it's a mistake it's clear from the gamar and not only from the gamar now learning in that it had the turns out that one of the things that he did in his parish is he has if you look at there it's not only and all these places have clearly the gear of so so you see that's not a good brings down the F what so so basically he says he um it's a mistake um and not only that our sh that we have today a better one me say if you look in the that was by the the old Edition very old Edition Tak does not have the words today if you look at the buer Edition which had it says there on the doorway interestingly enough there's a rashash says says it's not every hour just exact translation not when he specifically picks when he's in the field which you could say is alluding to David then he says something happened which we have to explain for now what about this war aspect so he said so here also says Don't Bring Me Some people say don't bring me a from is always a so he's a soldier so he was out on the field so here says in his Parish he says what's the proof from there who said this gar of B we don't know when this when this when did when this story happened with DAV that DAV was saying this who said you could prove to me one way or the other um if it was maybe um furthermore he says like this maybe was when he was a young when he was young and he was sleeping in his father's house so the is not his it's his father's anyway this is a cute again is so you see over here in this he's he's being down on all different things F but then it gets even a little more interesting another over here is says it says over here then so says like this wants to say in once you put it up you're being at all times and that's really what's happening in and that does have just in was like this now sorry before I get to he says over here that um there like this and then he brings down that told him it's says over there someone's handling the deals with it he's always be we see there's some type of that you are there is some aspect of of that you're being points this out in the introduction to his work on not on the we already explained that he has not only does he have a on on the on the he also has so there he says so he's so now like this so now so now this is part of the question what's going on when this person is anyone when you're in the when you're in a bathroom are you being M anything so on one hand we see David saying he's not the is and this sounds like from a few different people I think from the could be being so what which is really what's going on they which is again another whole story that wearing the whole day on when you go to the B you're not wearing it so and it's not now you're in a m without you own a house and you have a mza somewhere else you're doing something you're doing a mitz at that time but he's concern was to do MIT so now and just to throw this out there this is the what happened when he looks at himself and he sees he's naked and he doesn't he's not doing any mitz but he looks himself what do you mean he did mil years ago okay the answer is no there's a says this but it turns out the son of the truis came out I believe in the 1860s has a few truis where he says this a very famous when someone after you do the but the fact that you now have a you are every second being simar to talks about when he's saying about mza so now comes Alec this the the the part of this discussion could also be relating with and the also because there's a whole deal when you make the there's in when do you make the braa comparing mza to tius and part of the Isa let's say I'm in a room at night and that room doesn't have a mza but I could still technically be M all this plays out and had to understand whatever is happening over here any F and they bring a from that over there talks about ra he sometimes would DAV and put on and doesn't say anything about that he put on sitas what's going on how could he how is he not putting on czas answer is possibly did sleep with tal with tal coton okay it's not so p as I said okay now part of the over here is what's going on in B he can't do anything so DAV says I have a yes for myself what's the yes for myself interestingly enough we quoted last season the Chas between and so we know anyone who learns even if you just start learning Mish at one point in your life you learn about the the six so we know that there there's such a thing you're supposed to be thinking about them constantly so if you are in the bathroom are do does one still have to think about it are you able to even he says says it sounds like from the that you have to if you look in clearly it sounds like you should and is for the m and all the people that bring down to have the is from the so what's going on so interestingly enough says so they W sure what does he hold does he hold like or not so they so before they published it they asked them and he says it's to be thinking about so like this you could say what's going on what's worried about what does he have to come you could do something B and would be the same in this type of thing okay this is just there's a possibility being it's not so throws out some type of line like this in his okay I'm just throwing it out there again not there's no or anything from this another about the whole discussion where why not wear at night so the brings this up brings up maybe there's issue of now I mentioned already earlier that David sleeping what happened with David is he's sleeping and um he didn't sleep more than 60 horse press as it's called okay so I I have I'm not going to go through I wrote many years ago a massive chapter of embarrassing amount of pages tracing all aspects of this but the point is you couldn't bring a from DAV so this discusses discusses says so you can't the there's no from is not a person you could bring a r f later on brings that did sleep a lot okay interesting point relating to all this is fascina so he another is sleeping when he's sleeping he's learning also so don't mix don't mix in this is old discussion they slept we know we have of their dreams etc etc so this also might play out over here so he's being M something but the okay there's a lot of T that obviously could be said over here F we will get to um um two three more PR and that's it and the story goes like this number one the over here brings down that says you can't bring any R from it doesn't go into okay so ready brings this down and we'll seei says about this what's going on is like this to to explain the sh Chua one of the authors of was and that he's referring to is a that he gave an incredible hasp in 1815 and he publishes afterwards in L and all different things and over the there he handles and he talks about all different aspects so he brings up this which we know a has to have two this is and this already who else also brings this up already this which I told you most people did not know what this they don't didn't have access to this of the so they don't realize this is what it is but already asked this question and if you look in R the r says what about when he goes to sleep so it turns out if you look in the ram it says he's supposed to have the second not at night okay that's what the is hling over here and so he says like this what are you talking about how could you prove to defend anything over here he says he it says specifically if you look in the ramb that he's not he doesn't have will not have this in his room so now number one is like what we just were talking about before that he's barely sleeping so not in the thing so maybe that could be a possible answer and they point that out but he says like butki says that he it sounds like from the rambam that one would not need to have the safe did not have the sa when went into the room okayi says and so over here in in he brings down crazy some crazy he and a and eser and and he basically comes out that he would not be sleeping with this for and he he says okay interestingly enough what's this this is he made what's this also handles what is this mean but that the second that that the wrote was not a complete sa ofra it was just a it was a short um he says like this it was a it was not a complete again so was much lighter and that's what it meanso is able to hang on him because if you write a with all it's even though today they do make I have seen very Minature even that's a very complicated thing to take everywhere you go okay over here says that there's a problem with the the ra and he wants to change it because we find that there's a that says that even at night the Mel is supposed to have it it says that he isos sleep with the so he's the is so convinced based on AE and that the r goes with would talk with based on such a thing okay does not seem to be um go like that okay this brought down and how he learns up and over there in I think it's in okay now inter ly enough a lot of people are fascinated with this R and the of the of the M the second and if he's supposed to sleep with it at night and not okay just to mention that D in handles and there was a cha bris also handling Aus and Other M that spoke about it now um hold on we just have we're left with two last TS okay um we're going to cut it to the end here hold on okay so Hara number one is where is the RS I lost them okay so the whole time I'm talking about what's going on over here um D when when did this story happen so part of the whole raid over here that handle is is it before is it when he's young is it when he's in a soldier is it is it before that came out from manuscript a few years ago which is about the that the that sorry I keep on saying this the I mean the me wrote the second so not only is in does he talk about about over here also he talks about and he talks about the also into all this stuff and he talks about and he asks the question he he says what do you mean the he has a so he says no because who so why is the isza he has and now he doesn't so interestingly enough he handles Auda which is um another point he brings up is it's was born he had a b says so it's not so P what's going on with that okay Theus has some beautiful Tyre over here which I sadly I'm not going to go into just to say one over here is that even though is saying this it's not only reflecting himself when was saying to H is based on it's he's talking about the of so the so it could and that changes this whole conversation which is like this it's not parure when this story is happening is dealing with that also deals with this in this but part of the is when David's saying something tell him it's not only that he's feeling arum it's arum is that a regular person in the in the in the bath house so then it changes everything okay I'm I'm obviously saying this very quickly okay now the last nud over here is like this it comes out like this to beim is there's inion to we TI at night according to the and there and all the various come up with ways to explain that very good what about so this is a we know many many places in CL they we by and even if it's getting close to and okay all this is mapped out very nicely in we're not going to go through it but part of the is cover not in theid of so that might be different F the last is like this comes out according TOA you're supposed to wear C at night what about a tal G so this is how will be M there's a cha from it's and from there it sounds like very very against wearing a Talis God at night what what's going on so without getting into the discussion which is a recent discussion if theas are real or not B if how they were real and there was an article from a fell gold claiming it might not be real specifically from this Su and more recently in there wasit who came out there at Israel and weighs in very in a beautiful CH where he deals with the and the answer is that if you look carefully is talking about T that is a beginning to always wear it tal one comes along you're not supposed to wear it and this would explain the Kipper maybe it's different that's a different that's a different aspect of the anyway these are all different tangents and tangents and tangents in this Min but the point is like this rki to Beki himself did go like this AR if this plays out in anything kki with cabala I don't know he's going not like the kazes not like the stier as we're seeing over here it's not so says that everyone does it but definitely plenty of people did do it and that's a brief way of seeing some inside his parish and in how he handle some of the aspects in the and as I apologize for mentioning too many different things and not elaborating on them all but this is all in face of being having Rus on everyone the next thing is we're going to complete in one episode very briefly a few last hours on not at all just a few different small points and then we'll finish with after that we're going to go through very short and then to perir where again writes a systematic so we'll discuss the story of parir B those are the upcoming um episodes that we have planned