Nedarim - Throughout the Ages | Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Brodt

foreign Dr Eleazar brat the episode that many people have been waiting for the haktama many of us have been learning the second Norm now for a few days we open up the message we see it does not look like any other masecta in Shas hopefully we'll explore why this Mustafa looks different you have the right on the page you have what it says is Rashi you have a typhus and a rush in different places so let's hope that we cover these important questions and azerbai Dr Brut has a track record of uncovering something that many of us have not known before we're hoping for some surprises as well okay so why don't you begin you've done this throughout the generations throughout our career together taking topics and exploring them throughout the generations so perhapsody you want to start exploring was it always learned the same as other Miss actors that all the names have access to it maybe that's a good place to start okay so as we've done in the past in summer sectors where we've asked that if they were learned and we try to trace throughout the generations if it was learned and through that we get to see which were those Farm written on them so for we did this for marikatan specifically because some people don't learn much so let's try this with now the interesting is that we shine him bring down early on a review Diagon was one of the early geinum um and he said some very interesting um sentence in which we'll trace a little bit about that um about this sentence as it plays out basically he was talking about something in Hooks and arm and he's and it says Yeshiva they didn't learn in the Guardians Yeshiva he was saying about himself he did not learn so existed but in the period of the geinum time they didn't learn this so now um from bam Levine collects a bunch of different sources that bring down distribution and it was a very known thing that they didn't learn the dharm interestingly enough um where's today we have a safer called eitzerganim from this Levine incredible work where he collects all different items and we see there are some materials so what exactly did they learn didn't they learn and why is a is a subject of a great discussion okay La Mesa is another issue which is that when we learned we see that the line some people notice a note that the gear size there's a lot of different um this language that's not found in other and many other masectas it's not it does the lotion is not as smooth some people point out and is there any possibility as any possible explanation behind that um and it seems this has been claimed by many and already but the director he rejects this he says this should the changes in lotion there's not too many changes um he downplays the changes he does try to explain a little bit about distribution why he said that that he didn't learn um but okay already in the beginning of nadaram writes that he that he didn't write a parish on this what did he do he just was fixing up the mistakes that he found in the gimmo parushim which we'll see which Kim Persian he's referring to and and because it's so full of mistakes so we see already that the martial is saying that there is a lot of mistakes well maisa many point out that against not necessarily assistively speaking against the Israel name or even aware of the history he is aware of the division's review is he wrote incredible safer called Shari tyresebovel he has a long agricost at the after he wrote Iris on gunshots also on Gansu xiaomi two different another which is another volume he dies in the 20s I believe it is he's from brisk actually and wrote an incredible Savior and in this safer um all different types of virus and the galactic Mars regular Gamers and one of the things is he has a rickos is about certain he points out many different shyness changes between these masakis one of them being nadaram versus the rest of Shas tries to give different explanations he talks about it um and he proposes different theories about why that might be so but he clearly does hold that there was um that there is differences in the shyness of this masecta amongst a few other receptors and it seems at least in the haikram they accept they go with some not necessarily do you know about what he says but let's say the Act of Epstein he came to similar conclusion there's a fellow um yo of Rosenthal and his Doctorate on tomorrow I think it is he collects um a cecum of the people that deal with this question as does in his classic work on where they just show multiple multiple sources and discuss what different possibilities behind that um okay now Lamesa there's umiz Island heaven when he talks about this um sorry he just points to a chuvis harid and the rid brings down um was asked the following question um and then he talks about um he brings down that there's distribution and and therefore he also was he himself is the word talking about himself was not knowing to be matter okay now so we see because this review they're going very much later on in the times they were shining the raid is is actually actually going like this okay um where he talks about it um where he talks about his in his famous essay in the history that we showing him he also brings down when he talks about which Saddam they learned he brings down this machine the um safer item that Muslim was not learned and much means say much less many much less learned this again this is connected to the fact about big matter nether um so what's the story behind review they're going I am not going into perhaps it might have to do with the suggest of culnidre which we might might not Depending on time um Etc get to a separate episode about the origins of kolne which it might help understand this but we're not right now I'm just throwing out that there's such a thing people heard of it and I'm mentioning it another breath that means you're saying there's what to talk about why come this way has become the focal point for many of Yom Kippur connected to myself I can't say why I became the focal point but I could say that it's a fascinating history of culinary that does relate to masakhmas nadaram that maybe we'll be later to explore Maybe not maybe people will be safe to explore themselves that we do um in Russia Rosh Hashanah where that comes from if that has any relation but that's again we're now just talking with farsham playing uh bibliographical information so that's what the bottom line is I'm just showing is this this the red even is going this far possibly if that's how you read it okay now Lamesa what could be an explanation for this so there's a there was an interesting person um to put a modeling named yaakov reichmann so he wrote multiple Farm dozens and dozens of Articles all over in the different newspapers journals everywhere at the time in the 1860s 70s 80s and um sadly he left behind a crazy romantic Southern that was not printed there are still some awaiting a manuscript anyway so he wrote small Heber called this mishbacha's Rappaport where he deals with an interesting Hebrew called minhabalula in the back he has our son um what he talks about over there and he and he brings down distributorial going it brings down a few sources of this of the rush it they didn't learn it they didn't learn it so he asked the obvious question why didn't they learn it in these yeshivas what's going on and the also the significance is Robyn is early on in the guidance so like strange he tries to link it as a suggestion he does not elaborate on it that maybe it had to do with um um cairoyan type of situation that people are going to come to be musalzo in how the dharam are learned to have from which will cause fights at the karium okay whatever that's one possibility but another possibility which he throws out there is is that if they if there's going to be if they're going to learn about you and the yeshivas were very big in those days he says um and big is relative but to a lot of tamidium and if the people would come up with all that theorem there would be parrots so they didn't want to learn nadarm so that people should not know different heterium and be Mako very Mako in nadaram what's interesting is is two two interesting sources relating to that one is that the ramban in parishes mattress in the beginning says not to teach everyone to be um how to be Mafia Mayfair net there only Israel because then you should teach them so there's some Malcolm I'm seeing this ramban there might be something behind this theory of yaakov reichmann lamisa um show Lieberman has a whole chapter in his book um Greek and Jewish Palestine where he talks about baklao nadaram we see that already in the times of hazal the time when you learned they were very mizazal in Russian which is what's going on in this message they were they um and people just were which is what ultimately reifman is suggesting is behind the the Hatters people interestingly enough as a um as uh the famous statement is so so um sometimes the fear um people that when we begin people like to try to find some linkage to the particular parisha so it's a cute thing with it which is about and the significance of massacres you'll see all these people talking about even without learning it is that this week the dafyami began it on Thursday which was impartious there's a famous Rashi that that Rashi is a famous Majors based on the sukum about speaking Russian that the Taiwan out of its way to use extra words three extra tables not to Lois not to use um the shyness of Tommy so to speak that's what the the second one out of the out of its way when it says in the beginning of parishes it doesn't say tests why not that's what the magic says so it's a cute thing because this is what's what lies a little bit behind um okay anyway the point is that um the gear size is very hard just to mention we always point out is the the 2K ciphon was not so you have to write his work on umen in it's I think in Chicago in in 1943 did it um based on Xavier Minchin he does not have the Horus of of um that type of style but at least he did some work in the gear size however today our generation was we have the hometown in Israeli has two massive volumes the darn based on all the manuscripts and a lot of others um tools of this we've mentioned the past that are available online Okay so um there's also another tool just to throw out there there's um series from the Safari family also um somewhat of an academic um some people like it some people hate it um too loud there for the massage the bottom line is that this message at least in the times the guy named there's been theories that they did not learn it and um we mentioned some theories why but be that as a maid the gear Solis is different and there's theories behind that some which we've mentioned okay now one last Point relating to this is the Riff does the do we is there a riff on the Mercer so it seems that there is no refund the problem is when you open up yashas Vilma you'll see a riff so what's the story behind that so we will return to that um later on and then one other point is just to conclude is that I mentioned I think I mentioned already before is that the me read points out when he talks about to say he also says that they did not learn and he's spoken for the restram it was not a misept alert okay so ad Khan part one so it would seemed that this messerto was not one the question is is that true or not okay so do you want to focus more now on the sparrow the sinus the language issue so to speak different than other mastectus you want to go now to the reshinam so forever I'm going to say about the language issues we said already I don't want to spend more time on it too boring for the too Technical and boring we'll move on to more issues the more pressing issues that people like to ask or ask about this mess after which is I would assume the first thing that everyone loves to ask is as you as you said in the beginning is when you open up your message it looks very different so we have Rashi is it Rashi isn't so now when you open up your first print if you have in your house standing by your shots Venezia when the first printings of the shots you'll see it says in the shower and Parish Rashi vitis then it says immediately afterwards this is the first you open up the chass there's if you'll see it has Robin Nissim on the left side actually yeah on the left side and the right side it doesn't say what it is and the bottom of the page is something called The Rush and then if you turn to the back you'll see there is Texas which is not usually we have places on the side and we have Rashi so now so that it's interesting right away we see the shower it's saying Rashi it does not say Rashi and other masakis the muscle um and other myceptas does it point that or actually it actually doesn't say Rashi but I guess so someone opening up his uh if he has handy his Shas finesse from the first printing of the shaft the first few printings you would assume it's Rashi like any other thing and look short so you might think it's rashy and you you might wonder why is there a run on the side and why is taste this in the back okay so the question is is this really rashy and this is a question everyone loves to talk about so we're not going to go through all the ins and outs of all the the people that talk about it Hashem today a little more than 10 years ago a fellow under a pen name wrote an article in a journal called yusha say no at that time he was a baker and he wrote it it's called under a pen name was a Bakr I forgot where he was learning um La maiso after he got married he admitted that it was him his name is Aaron Gabby he's a prolific writer today he's he writes we've quote him in the past and it's very seriouses he writes a lot about and also a lot about various I believe he lives in tifra so he wrote a massive piece on Rashi on and if Rashi is the Rashi nadharam and who is if it's not Rashi who is the Parish of Rashi I would say it's it's read it's almost 50 pages it's very kadai to read just because you get a lot of ideas not only in nadarim but in about Rashi in general also he has other many interesting ideas on other masaktas and McLeod after Parish of Rashi in the basement and this is available in Hebrew Books someone could reach out to you you can reach out to me and I will send you a PDF and as I'm going to mention he he even though he says he reaches his conclusion which we'll discuss a moment very confidently with great confidence he then he changes his conclusion in the next issue a year later in the same Journal called you should say no and we'll say what he says there also but even it's also fascinating because he brings down what everyone says all the possibilities and it's very very interesting I'm not going to go through as it says 50 pages there's no in the world I'm going to bore myself for everyone with all the details um he does right actually and I found this very interesting he writes that someone named yeshuyen Keller it's a friend of mine told him that in Lakewood when they learned a bunch of years ago someone gave out copies and people who almost learned this article being I I can't I'm I'm more skeptical I don't really believe that many people reading this article people probably didn't know about it but today it's much easier um you come on the internet probably if you search in Google rash in the dharm you might even get the one of the first hits will probably be this article okay anyway the first thing to start with is is that the mainstream of China that we have on the masakta do not do not such as the razrat Iran the rush to rid and um the ballot Isis even that we have which we'll discuss later on we can discuss about them very shortly they do not bring anything from Russia that is usually an indication that there's no at least they did not have a Russian they did have Rashi on other masaktos um strangely we find and back to the shast financier this shast now has a rush and Iran we don't find Iran writing this type of perish on any other receptor okay well just as a side track the this ran what's the story with this run before we get back to Rashi is is um so the ran I always heard when I when I was growing up my father used to say that he was like he was literally having a maggot cheer with the way the ran Rashi was amazing and all the sectors that we have Ashley but he's very cryptic and straight to the point Duran writes more out more clear and you always felt you felt pushed like you had a Shear of someone explained to every single prop I I just heard last night that uh from avishai David for many years that with salvation of Boston some like to call him or of why you for others or whatever anyway they um so he would call him the Russia Shiva that's how he referred to the ran on the masato um but okay that that's that that's how some people um refer to so the question is what shot the answer is is most likely he didn't do this father mastectus because most sectors or um we have a parish of Rashi so he didn't need to go write this type of style perish that's a possibility it's not necessarily um he wrote other he wrote rather purusha maybe uh nadaram he learned it very well and then they've had it whatever so they put it there but okay the mice of the rush also doesn't write this type of Parish on on other masectas we do have the rush to stalk him in the back of the rush which we have in this Russia which we'll also discuss but but this type of style Rush Parish we also don't have okay um normally brings down the Rashi on the message we have so he never brings them around she brings down the round and the kids are this fellow goes through various numerous riots that it's not that we shouldn't do not have a safe from actually okay fast forward 19 19 um 62. a safer comes out which makes them a patronage for numerous reasons we spoke a little bit about him but this is an incredible reason and in nadaram it made waves it has a beautiful scamas it's not a baron Cutler is a very nice escamba batter of Maisha and others and this was published by rev what's known as the bloody shining this is probably one of the main machine that put him on the map um this is now one of the things has been handling the Ramba but what we find in this Hebrew throughout the Hebrew he brings and it's assumed to be Rashi so he at least had something called Rashi this Parish just as a side we saw it became beautiful but there was a vart in this in this Parish that's quoted often um by today I imagine when the first few people came across that they were excited but today I think everyone it's more famous which is there's a famous ugly Talon is agama where he talks about if you could if you're supposed to have no and you learn tairu and it seems people say you're not supposed to you're not supposed to have enough um anyway the ugly towels is to have a no you're supposed to have enough when this of Roman hurricane now in the dorms it says specifically this whole piece beautifully because that's the icker of learning is to have Hano so this piece became very famous this um safer amongst other things you now have evidence of possibly arashi on the masecto anyway this fellow guy goes through um other possibilities about about discussion lamisa they seem to have discovered some pages in different places that might be Rashi Le Marshall there's a Hebrew from the now not only is there but and for this also to mention as files like this the sheet of has which we'll get to listing when it comes to product but they recently found and Macomb Thomas really printed this is that the about this wrote Horus he was very ISO people that learned kochem know this he wrote RSB and on kutchem about the gear size he was very amongst Not only was the icing collecting the reshining it was Isaac I understand the gears the proper gear solution and they are found in Charles wilna and this new manuscripts of that also okay so what was added in recent years maybe even early 90s only was that he also did this for massage and they printed the whole Hebrew Israeli he's already there he's handling if Rashi is rashy or not it seems that I um he's probably the first person to be my favorite that Rashi is not Rashi and um bottom line is um the scriber of the shinigs just to throw out there might be that Ariza who was his cavusa might have learned these areas also might be with him this is its own fascinating story not for now just to throw that out there akopanim is that there's a long list collected in this guy by his article of people that talk about it of of um people hand off their Steamers and Rashi there's no steers around you if it's not Rashi okay so but bottom line is that in the conclusion of his first article because of Robert raminahar and a few other cases he said it seems possibly Rashi did write a parish on the dharam not we don't it's on the printed page and it might be those few things that are printed by a few different people and and what we're performing a heart quotes extensively from this parish and a few other people that was his maskana in article number one okay La Mesa um article in article number two he says no he he at the end after reevaluating the evidence he comes to the conclusion there was no Rashi at all um okay that that that's his I would say he's the Isaac of of Rashi nadaram but the problem is in in article number one he says to excuse him he was very young he was before his Hassan even when he wrote this article and it's beyond incredible and immediately after even though he writes mahalus number one and he comes with great confidence in the first article once when he gets the second article he changes it around and in general one has to be very careful two things one is be very careful when you're writing such a thing at a young age or such confidence not that there's anything wrong with what he said and two you always have to constantly check um to see sometimes someone writes a big article and it could be his Heiser because people that's the mile of Articles people could be more you and he might have made a mistake so you gotta check up and talk of the next year already he did this a lot of times you find someone writes an article in the magazine I've mentioned the past that is sometimes I read them it is a I read the parts of the mushpacha magazine so you'll find that someone can make a big mistake and they correct it in the next week but people don't look for the correction so a lot of time there's a major archrist when you print which descaba is aware of but you have those to be careful um not to fall into mistakes but mistakes happen there's nothing to talk about everyone assuming and mistakes are very calm this is the conclusion in this art in these articles now but what's also significant is but who's the mafarish Lamay said there's a parish on this side okay but so the bottom line is we have the matharous over here so what's John the fire so this Gabby this article one of the credible things is he's able to identify that there's five different pollution go not he doesn't know the names but it's based on Styles and all different things that he explains very clearly in this article this it's collected composer from five different um or people from The Times They were showing them or methods of he's able to identify this so I'm not going to get into the details and you'll say it's very strange why is there a reason of perish on the side that's composed of five different different people possibly and the answer is it's not so strange if you know tysis the composition of tysis the printers look for material to have a running perish on the side so they would take what they had so if there was let's say godo a road up to that Zion and but they needed to continue so they got a second God though they took what they were able to get sadly they didn't give us the inside information of what's what and they published it so this is what the matharous is he's able to identify that it's composed of multiple possible multiple authors up to five different authors I believe it is anyway if you want to read all about this it's very interesting in this Arc from God okay Alcan Rashi and the mafarish we move on going back to the page is the round we also discussed Iran and the rush start what about toys so tysis you said it's not even on the side it's on the bottom and the first Venezia shaft that's in the back what's going on here So La Mesa already the Taz writes near their ratio zines of cotton lamid that the tices over here is full of mistakes okay and this and others bring down such a thing also you said the martial earlier on says a similar thing in the beginning of no darm well most of a centuries tices was a murderer to understand an hour generation there were some improvements number one is Tyson strawberry parrots at least two Hebrew that are being parrots Caiman in the in the late 80s uh Tyson came out on the first half in the Dharma 1966 from someone in England and the tysis rush came out from batal De blitzki in 2001 and later on again he reissued it through my surf cook if one wants to understand the whole story of the baliatosis who wrote about Rashi he wrote an additional article which is available by PDF for me I could send it to by PDF one could get it online also um and here he wrote this article in the private room volume tests all about the um baliatasis now so how can we discuss some of the risham that existed the Shire um and some of the tools about that fine but what's clear is that be that SMA if it's not Rashi but there's we shine him so it's the masectas being learned which is going back to our original question now let's go to the kufasa so Mordechai broyer um early earlier early um I guess late region earlier whenever you want to put him in the in the line he says it sounds clearly that it was Learned was learned okay so now the question is um and when do aquariums start coming in and really when do when does the material out there because even though I mentioned to you there's these tools with Isis that's only in the past 20 30 years so that's the question so first the rajba he's first printed in 1720 and then a few other times but the master is not so big on them so the rajba I would not put as um so big in the list of sparaman okay the Miri interestingly enough has been in 1795 a useful Parish he might be bringing Rashi also that's its own discussion okay what happens is in 1795 the Hebrew called ish Hashem is printed now this hebor this is where the game changer begins this is where the ramban the ritva and the mukes have come to light after that at least there was some shinam to work with other than what was on the page um and we could see there's really no I was not able to find any real aquarium that manush except for one which we'll discuss momentarily that was beforehand as far as urine if they if it was in part of the curriculums in the 1700s it's hard to know it seems like maybe it was but I I can't pinpoint sources so much one way or the other okay so now this is why what is the ramban doing over here it's the ramban it was a big fan of the rifky or Dua and as other Israeli writes in his new book on the beautiful book but it's already out of print he mentions that the ramban was was very into the Riff which we know and certain places where he was not where he didn't write a keyboard he was this is what he does okay so this seems to be not so well so um so passionate we'll see in a second um and that's but but bottom line is this is where where it begins so to speak this region the ramban printed in those years it's printed again a few times wrote a book called The hariform under a pen name of shows of um Schaefer and he has two three pages devoted to this keyboard and he says at first when it first came out the 1790 the 1795 Edition was clear who is it it's the ramban and it's nothing to do with the Riff you say it's he's being mashed on the Riff at a later Edition at some point in time we find it is a Hebert and it seems to say it's the Riff it sounds like people believed that they discovered the Riff on the dharm LA maisa there's a letter from the yeshua's jankins and his son they they felt that it was the Riff um today it seems to be that they're accepting that it's not um okay anyway bottom line is that there's this keyboard okay now in this keyboard but the shyly is is this the Ritz or not this also has been discussed at great land for martialism so you see number one is he's assuming it's the Riff and number two is he's assuming it's the Ritz also he goes a lot into the he quotes a lot the ramban the written used to face clearly it's been discussed at Great length if it is the Retro or not based on all different types of things theorists etc etc I'm not going to go into Hashem not only do we have the evalness are amazing people love them but his gum over here is incredible we see mammation holding in with unbelievable where he discusses all the issues raised to prove to come to the conclusion where it is okay so bottom line is this Hebrew but these through shinim is the game changer now fast forward 1860 the streets comes out now we already mentioned that there's a difference that's not what came out that only comes out in the 1990s fine so adcan we're showing them we meant that that came out and what about aquarium so it is interestingly enough there's a Hebrew stimulus Benjamin from a Benjamin Rappaport sorry comes out in set in 1798. sorry not 1798 1788 and this perish the Macabre of the safer rights he's looking for an area for him to put his so sweet sink his teeth into because he doesn't want to write about other areas that everyone wrote about so he locates what the Dharma and he writes to be in the comparison they put it in the back it's safer but it goes through the suggestion okay fast forward to the 1839 mccluger the prolific writer who wrote endless amount of swarm arayan just Allah al-tair they're about to finish or they did finish they're about to finish I'll tell you with something like close to 50 volumes on the parishes but he wrote on every area of tyranidarum so he wrote a Hebrew called reason in 1839 volume 1 comes out 1855 Volume 2 comes out oriented and goes through the shaft very well in our generation with honestly mcclurger put it out you can't get it today sadly but at least some version of it I mean it's Ahmed exists and the older version exists on Hebrew books and it's a very important keyboard La maiso just to mention bibliographical information right away in the front page he says a piece that was supposed to be inside the safer it happened I see it and it says which is very interesting because they had a very very interesting relationship definitely at a later point in time he was not calling them but we see that in 1839 he still liked them okay another interesting thing is that there has come up the safer or the person involved the printing was rebellious who's famous for being involved the source for the whole controversy about some Cipher which we already mentioned in the episode on the Auckland Air um to see the episode to see the article from Dr Shalom okay fast forward a few years later 1851 the charlemation puts out a workout as nadaram which is amazing safer fine it's brought down by the police okay we move on there's a safer floors 1865 from a review he has impressive as commas from from different good dailymira which is in the Yeshiva World uh very proudly safer with a popular safer which we've discussed them a few times in the past okay 1880 becomes comes out a safer xiaomi nadaram which again um he writes that there's the reshinen which he has which is the ran the rush and then he says um he also points out myself um so he's um the Republic what does he says that they already did it like he's blaming on the printers but we're staying it's really way way back but we could say we have the back and also the rashes okay the kids are he talks about that um this is his Parish what does he use Joseph throws in that gamma but as I said already there's a mapatia done ready from 1795 then that we were now generation this is what the child says and kyodua and the Hebrew has a few pages of ours from the great adapters okay okay well this is 1880s now we moved to 1903 where we throw Rosenberg wrote a safer the other is the Dharma now this person is very famous who are is he famous it he wrote a safe it explains the colomars of Russia and Iran okay but he's more famous for being the author and possibly the inventor of the building of Prague iron and all the various Articles of of uh Dr Lyman about this and come to talk about it now but here he chose to be and with his other writings of his also he's a tremendous Not only was he uh able to create the volume etc etc he was a trans and people like the safer fast forward 1913 there's a safe and resolved Parsons nadarim 1936 you have a 1936. okay I already mentioned that our generation was what do we have we have a Roman ahar we have some rashes we have toy system also there's an interesting that we we mentioned already that there's a shooting it turns out from the same door of the shooting of bat says there's a Hebrew from the this was also when was this printed this is printed in the I think the late 90s from in one of these khatsum I think it's called Bruce avram it might be also available on Hebrew Books Okay so these are some of the reality um one last area which is and that is a spouse and he published it and it's mamished incredible incredible incredible one could see when you go through it um it's kadai even if you don't learn um other times but it just gives you a lot of insight in the sector he's very beyond he quotes he actually interesting and the reciting that he had most normally is okay now just to conclude what about myself of current days so the the famous of blood of the sanhedria area on Earth Israel where the active famous for his first birthday so less known is that he wrote many others Farm um set on pistration so in Hillcrest the kids ride in asukana that he was while he was in yusuum towards the end he this is what he was working on I'm actually printed it right after he died a very could I say interestingly enough this safer quotes a lot from a more contemporary safer called this came out in 2008. it is over a thousand Pages no sorry it's 860 Pages incredible incredible work in the studio for one to use and to conclude from as we speak they're putting out the various notebooks and shiram of his volume of his on the dharm with also emphasis on Allah is available out there these are some of this Farm what we see from all this is that the second is then the times the genome it seems they did not learn the dharm so much we shine them it seems yes okay I cried and we see there's a period of a few hundred years it's not so much learned there's a Revival once 1790s the printing press let's say the Russian help it then you find the acronym slowly start coming out throughout the 1800s there are various works on them today it's considered one of these huge masaktas I'm ready before the war was considered I guess because it was learned in valajun and Mir and there's numerous numerous which is not in my above my pay grade to talk about arkhan the sperm or some of the information about Musa thank you very very much as always I think you mentioned enough for him that many people probably have never heard of so take out your pen and paper um any questions suggestions please reach out to myself at schwadeem ou.org or Rabbi Dr brat eliezerbroth gmail.com of course sponsorships are always welcome thank you very much