Mi Shebeirach in Halacha and Minhag | Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Brodt

welcome back Rabbi Dr elazar BR and we have a very interesting topic to discuss today and that is a topic of Misha art scrol I believe and maybe some other Publishers have a special book for the gab but all different M that he could make that he should make and it's especially pertinent today um many shs specifically make a for the theim the tahal are those who make Mish for the president of the United States of America I don't know how much BR is going to be discussing those because I don't know how much of a history there is when did the M for the N of become um written who wrote it I don't know if he's G to talk about that he will be talking about the history of mish where does it come from and you know which ones are are more relevant or prevalent I think that's the word I was looking for um and we're looking forward to this episode it's been sponsored anonymously by somebody who would like to stay Anonymous and we thank him for his dedication anybody who would like to sponsor a dedicate future episodes please reach out to myself or I brought my email address ised m ou.org s cwm .org and our by br's email address is very simple elazer BR gmail.com we love feedback we love critical feedback even more than positive feedback um it helps us do a better job and it keeps us on our toes so without further Ado Rabbi Dr elzer BR okay so basically today we're gonna talk about Mish throughout the generations and a few just brief introductions we've mentioned many times that if someone requests a topic and he wants to sponsor it we are happy to do it if we have what to say about it so a few months ago someone reached out about the following he says can you do an episode on how and we are the custom to say the Mish after one gets called off for the t comes from some add a million names and some just include all am I a bad person if I don't listen to everyone what does the naming actually do is a holiday difference such as young Kipper etc etc so as I told him the topic is is a very big topic a lot has been written about it it's at the end of the day there will be some um answers that we don't have but we're going to try to shed some light onto this very interesting topic and uh okay now the the the I would say the most the general topic of Misha the person that did the most research of collecting material was a his name was aam Yari and um interesting person not for now but basically he was a prolific person he wrote lots of spum we'll mention some today and dozens of Articles different types of topics he's very famous for of the he wrote a mass of book published by m of cook um where he collects all the information about this Hag from 100s ofum he was expert in farum a bibliographer etc etc so he at one point in the 60s somehow he got fascinated this topic and he collected dozens of mish and he tries to tell the story a little bit about it and we'll see more of what he says shortly also there are different types of mish that's what he shows that it's not there's you know you when after guy gets there a and then there were all different times that let's say for for were there this he doesn't deal with this as much but were there any people against Mish you know gets as you know it gets out of hand you know the guy that goes around the whole that he wants to um make sure he gets everyone it becomes a joke even sometimes just to jump in here where I D in so the r made a rule um that you know the more lules have stricter rules on so the bar mitzvah boy after he gets his Aliyah right he's like standing there like what should he Mak for he's supposed to mention his father's name his grandfather said boy got we make and move on and many people you know depending on the speed of the daving they're like okay we got everybody in the first and they move on so you probably can talk about how it varies from SCH to right so this this aspect is is it's interesting it it probably be a fascinating study to study shs and people and because some people they feel you know if there's no M that saves a lot of time in the daving it's you know some shs go it could take a 25 minute difference we're not going to go into all these aspects but there's a lot to say about it yeah and you probably could document Yeshiva right in Yeshiva so that yeshivas we're gonna have some sources but Hal if someone would document all the yeshivas but I found a few sources about the Yeshiva World which we will mention now um so first of all there's in not where comes up in a few different places in we mention briefly shortly but and he says we in Sim test V something where we'll see what the context is but he says if someone if you hear someone they making a you should make sure to say and and he says so this is interesting you should make sure to answer me now interestingly enough it's not we now have manuscript of which I quote all the time and the has um sorry I'm just checking the internet if it just got disconnect yeah the so he already says this anyway it's it's relating to the to the where over there he brings down that when you hear when you hear someone someone ding for something or or making a even it's without you should make okay it's a source from a I'm not sure where this magish is anyway bottom line is the question the obvious question is where can we trace this Min to how far back so a lot of times you always say you have to you open up your Jews we we go with so relating something else to Rama talks about when it's talking about what what are you allow to talk about on chabas over in the places where they have the Min that they that the the person who gets and what does he do afterwards to give to announce how much you're gonna give now obviously that word is that s okay so obviously there's a lot to handle in this in sh and we'll mention a little bit soon the and the T some very small parts of it but it's a very very big Su now we so so we so we've already pinpointed that the Rama brings down that there are places that that's what they do now do they do it every Aliyah it sounds like what's the mar so always I always make sure to mention you got to check out the dark dark over here brings downa had and then for hundreds of years it was lost until in the 1800s which we spoke a little bit about in the episodes of kki season 2 it was published and it's incredible what how important the saer is so over there the says so it's a whole and he handles the whole and at the end of the day he says that's what the ra says in he so he brings down the we now as I said have the so you could check it up just to mention very briefly but it's a whole big says so he says my father was very against it it's it's against the Su of which you're all to do that's of which is what's going on in and and he deals with it but the bottom line is the Min so now what just happened is RA who had we already got it back to the so in the times of there was but they were they were aware that there might be some type of problem and they still said it's m so the point is M and key factors over here is this m what are we talking about a random guy gets an Aliyah and but now what what did he do he didn't just get a a whole because he got an Al he was giving to the and we also see the to the whatever that means is I'm not even that's its own story okay now there's another which is so this we there's a massive article from hurger always fond of quoting him this was published in Volume 7 back in T and it's a massive article PDF is available upon request and he goes through the whole now the obvious thing is it's it starts with onas what's the so this is a whole different story which is which also relates to the Mish but this is are you on this is a massive massive Su plays out in many different places someone will mention one count about it someone wrote a where he deals with so many different things that comes up with a lot of different FAS on chabas if you're allowed to say them and I'm going to see some examples of this as it plays out over here if you're allowed to say them on chabas so the when the that is of the now to jump to because this is one of the that relies on for the so the we've already I've been accused many times of being very fond of him so in his work on towards the end he says so he's giving you the condition the criteria he's very he's in a when then he says or someone that's difficult to give birth so again you're seeing it's not all it's a specific situation and that so now this is not during the sa it's still when the sa is out and that significance of what the being out still is we will get to shortly but the point is this is the now in many shs that's not some shs they T could do it at the end after they don't do it in middle of um in middle of the they do it the end of the anyway this is what says and this is how he was the one of the after was published and all in all the different world world um etc etc now but the question is um so now back referring back to this article from R hamburger he already deals with this at length um all aspects of the sh starting from the garas because about what is going on about going to all all these aspects traces very very thorough anyway so just a quote um also says don't do it like you do in um and you have you have to use a different but he says um the that he had says they are M and they seem to do it and he doesn't know um who gave them the Hat mean say this is a famous once again they do things without asking and again he also says similar to the m we talking about that has right now the over there um has a whole fascinating AR what it is and and um we would have the time to go through this and and the whole but we do not now the point that I would like to make is that this came up and through the next um two three Mar we'll see how this plays out and and what could possibly be a problem behind all this in the time there was a he wrot on and he was closer to and him and the they had a whole back and forth about the following question there was a and he sent an to the besses and he wanted that they should be if they would be able to say um some type of um Mish for him that was basically what happened so the the the the there was a whole back and forth this wrote a whole chuva it seems he he was against it he held it's a problem and the in he says that you're allowed to now the whole just I already mentioned is talking about all this is discussed over here but one of the theas that comes out in the whole when you when you learn these Chas is again ofas so so that's a in this whole so we have a and so that's why they specify According to some that has to be anyway this is what's going on this is the the fascinating that one could see the what says what answers him back and as I keep on referring to to this article from RAB ham now this is not the only time there was and a little later on from in in he had the following question unless it's something sorry so he says it sounds like from him maybe he wasn't aware of the maybe he was sounds like it could be to be make so this got he um is B someone that he had a lot to do with sometimes they got along sometimes they didn't has at least two tras about he talks about this same question and he talks about again this of um and it gets back to this question of if if it's going to be now then in the middle of this he says they throw in that he could say it um so he says why he says because like so therefore there's a that the whole says to be Etc but and and it's sort of let's say maybe even becomes but not but stuff like that that is a problem based on and that we don't do fine this is in his CH again in has another CH about it and Rebeca V has some other chis where he talks about um at one point in one of the chuvas back curs um you know this is the he thr a lot of times he throws in other tinest that he has mixing into the mix here because somehow it's a that's the whole history of K okay A lot of times we find that the scapegoat a lot of problems with them has again talking about the various Bashas that are said on chabas if it's going to be a problem and he said his father in certain things that it's it's a problem so therefore he's coming up with an answer behind so so basically to say the M it's not going to be so P but yukin would be would not be a problem fine so these are just some of the in very very brief without getting into all the nitty-gritty details of what's behind possibly some of the some of the M might be a problem he says that you say for the there's no it's because it's he says like this etc etc that basically is this is it's not a he feels that it's it's not a problem okay going back to sim which I mentioned is where it starts he says he brings down the and um he mentions all these issues of Pim for Saka and if it's if it looks like it's car hold on one second P okay um so then he says he another thing which also is the issue of is about selling the Alas and selling all the different things which is its own that also takes place on CH is that it's okay the bottom line is that all I'm just trying to bring out is that there are aspects in the in the how works out and it's not so simple what type of it's going to be that it's going to be m and even even the ra SL who quoting you the already from the times the that they that they did do it but it wasn't so simple how it works out with the of that it's possibly a so this is um um hold on just give me one second this is one of the nas in the story which is possibly also so we have the safer where um he he had a special for he would say special and um he did it on shabas fine this is Anda they um so we see that they did do it okay now I'm just just trying to think which was the best way to do this okay so like this the which I've quoted recently is a was a this is the brother of the Rama sorry brother the maral Kusa of the and in recent years we know they had a sharp in he published a work called where he goes after a lot of aspects in method of the of the and the anyway one of the incred he was incredible gu in that time he was a r freedberg and one of the incredible incredible that he wrote was called but there's a lot of pieces as we'll see right now and this piece um even though it was the transcription of thead was a little messed up so they didn't realize that this is what it was the actually quotes this he says like this he's about I'm I'm complaining I'm voicing a complaint what they in he's AI so this is he referring to his own people also the guy how much money he's giving should even give it even want a small little amount is its own Min which might have a tie into this buter he's not too happy with this thing of the Mish okay so it seems is possibly that it might have gotten out of control in the early the Dy thez of the Shah he says very carefully that you have to because it's clear and this is going back what this Rama is that people would donate money after so they got their Aliyah so he said make sure to settle up your debts throws out make sure to be to say BL um Berlin already discusses this in his and the point is that there's there's another aspect a it gets out of hand sometimes the money is anyway a bazan so and sort of becomes a half referring back to Maris which also relates to all this is that there is um he says they make the the but then this all the different people out there unless he's giving which I guess then the doesn't mind so much but and then maybe the also wouldn't be so upset but what happens is you know people just take it as a joke so then it um becomes a PR another relating to this is that the that the the of the which you just quoted earlier referring to the Nadar he also throws in about the that they they make a whole big deal about it and basically is he says that in Frankfurt they had a minut only for what that was it so they didn't just do a for everyone all the time for every it specific cases that they did it and there's more documentation for that now rhenen very interesting Tru firm of hen and published in Simon meim he says like this he says we today the the the Min is everyone gets a m says what was the original minig so as we as I'm keep on saying if you look at is because someone gave and and not only that if you look in the of the various of the various that's what it says but today they give it to everyone he says he feels it's only if if St if it's a big thing but that he feels also that not to give it to everyone and you should stop basically not that this minut got out of control when should you do it if you want to be M for the people that are giving nice amount of money so we'll see that's really what's going on with yuk per and M that we say after yuk okay um and just now to mention three more marus and then we'll get to what's the story beh some more aspects behind the story like this number one so in the ear SOA one hand I'm showing you Rama that they did do it and then certain you have to know certain times yes no I mean to say yes no in by but they did do it for a regular person Mor is against it other people also against it so what what so just we could list out and go through the generations I'm talking specifically now for when the M before the sorry after the Aliah so an early work published byari um in his work called so from a travels from the 1650s so someone who went is and he writes by what's going on over there he says after they say for who for all the people that send money for the to help out the people in Earth is to be able to learn and and he brings the whole so and they bless all the people that are so so now that re let's say rev henen that's very good so it's not during the alah alah there's a special there's a special thing F now you we mentioned the outset what about the so so in recent years I don't know how many there are but I have a few what's their so they say that's their liid what's the meaning of liid so they put out theug ofid except and then they have a special um I saw in a memoir from from before the war in the Mir they did not say m I don't know if it was always theing in the Mir it was just before the war okay now in Italy this is an early work of Minag of Italy and even in theam of Italy there's a but this is let's say from the 1650s or something like that so what did they do he said don't get into all the nitty-gritty mention every single person just that that's going again similar to this theme that it got out of control so so at this point one of the nas that I'm trying to bring out is that yes there's makas for it but there's many makas that say be it should be be careful that it shouldn't get out of control which in some cases it seems to have gotten out of control now the question always is is is there more to the story and what's going on that we make this Mish during the during the during laning at least whatever so now there's a beautiful piece from Theus chuva um and he at the end of the piece he says hold on Lost of papers that is so that's what is behind is that's why we um blowing theer we have the out still all this is based on the Z that when the sa ready once the urin is opened that's why we say then is a tremendous a so that's the the move on of saying the during um after of saying but what about during so it seem that we could by extension during the during the laning also as assuming it doesn't get into half sick issues and assuming the guy is actually giving a real a real dedication to the sh so then it will be a it would not be a problem now who I'm always very fond of quoting him so he has a fascinating Mah in um that would and back of so basically he has a comment another person I'm also very fond of quoting so Stern has a different issue in the Mish he doesn't like the to the titles that people get they make up all these titles for people and he has a issue against the titles in TR what titles um the misusage of titles in TR this is actually its own whole episode is Worthy on this know where does the term even come from and how it's misused bottom line is in at the end he says he has this problem when you're saying in the don't say red okay so interesting says yes you should say Reb now what's going on over here says and it's gives us a fascinating Insight of a little bit what's what's going on with this the ETC he says like this many of around especially the whole point is to emphasize the that's what says not only that even after the cre of the but W the is still out that's part of what's going on with yuk we are daving for the and even on a Monday and Thursday where there's where there's M for them it's the same and the point was to be to be to to be to to emphasize for for everyone the of now many things there's there's always a fear of Kim there's different that relate toar that doing to go to show the to show against the this is that's and that actually is a massive arus I think I once quoted before my good friend Rebel greenswag has a whole arus about all collecting all different times the that the time behind C has to do with the so now that the they were very into um the concept of Reb is to show goofa that's where it comes from to say the Reb to say that he's not a he's a who is the anti-ar the rabim so again that a cute in the in theud behind why yes to keep the titles now but the point is that during this um this is a side aspect in the Mish that come that that um that comes up okay if you should keep the titles or not or if it's exaggerated um okay now just the last um um to make it very brief so in the beginning I quoted of that he has these massive articles found in ker in the 60s where he deals with the Min of of mish so now by him he doesn't deal with where I'm coming from is during the where I want to know which is what people um one of the aspects is during the during the Lan during laning or for the regular person that gets an alyah and then also I mentioned about the and from traces he collects an incredible amount of um at the end I think it's over 150 different from all different manuscripts and re farm all different types of mish that was said in different occasions not only not only but the was to bench which we'll get to very shortly during um that that's some of them but then different people that throughout the age this was a this was a common thing just to throw out there the T um to quote after just a quote that one of the historians that wrote a book um Joseph Davis on the tan basically sort of right afterwards he was asked at the very beginning of um of the troubles in 1648 he instituted a short blessing a special Mish to be recited every shabas and holiday during morning services in the synagogues of cra on behalf of those who do not hold private conversation during the prayer service because it was assumed that that that that's a that's a big problem talking during that interestingly enough this even this m that made it seems it was early there were much ear in the times of also there was such a thing of of if you're ner from not to talk then we give a for you similarly the the maral the rebi of um the he had a different for those that are that are m not to be drink problematic wines and Yari traces and gives all different types of examples about the Su fast forward after Yari publishes his article which ends up happening a lot of times different experts weigh in an expert Daniel Cen he collected another 50 something like 50 more Mish throughout the maybe could be Yari had only 100 and then he had another 54 also from rear sources and you see that some sometimes they did it for who for big um and just to mention one one or two names verer who was a famous Asin who helped CL he was one of the courus he helped save the yiden many times so there was a special in hisil they made a special Mish for him that they would say other asan a little later they also would make um special Mish and we find so the point is there were many different occasions that they made um M back referring back to Yari one of the places that he is is in 17 um 63 finds a pinkas from that from that year where basically is they have a mish just to list off for um all the different types on second is M for the M for all the people do Special M for rash for Kipper for the for the for bris um all these different things the special of the so which is the point that Yari is showing that throughout the ages the Mish um just took on a life of its own not only the Mish of the um sorry not only the mishab of the for the for the Tyra now turns out is what was first was the Mish and this is the the this is the aspect theud that I would like to be mign with last few minutes and as as follows what took place um what took place first was it that there was a for the by the Alia or there was something else happening at play over here so that turns out that there was a a yid Das shinski I forget his first name he wrote an article in the 1920s where he deals with yukam porum and later on Yari in this article um deals with this article of this of this dushinsky guy and then most recently um an incredible incredible article from a fellow Neil Danzig called two insights from a 9th century lit Lal handbook the the origins of yukim perin and the Kadesh had now so what's happening is like this that um Yari shows based on other that it turns out that we say k we say yuk perin and we even have two yuk Perkin so the two yuk Perkin that we have ultimately that was the first those were the earlier Mish and what was happening was they you they we we um we're daving for the and the second is the emphasis of the um even the children the women etc etc of the so first it's unclear what's going on is it talking who is who is it even referring to the of yuk perum as an aside some there were cases there was even attempts to try to abolish it um term was asked by the umor remor learner who has the TRU has published a first and about that there was even seems some people want to they felt it's notay anymore the Y per is referring to P the which doesn't apply so actually it's interesting s point out Ritz maybe also that to take out the b aspect of the yuk but the point is to and in his cha also at the end says keep the daving saying is still relevant say now yuk per it's an Aramaic so obviously there the one that's what makes this unique so already and his s tries to bring it out into to into Hebrew to translate it he uses the M from it Own Story what's going on behind that the point is that these Tas are really what the Mish are and then there's also another Mish everyone knows for the which again as as I said from y this is heavily documented throughout the ages that many of the Mish that's what it was so so now already from this shinski going to Yari going to Danzig what's happening over here is that it's not just that there was a mish the starting was yuk perk so now the question is yuk perk um what's the story with so this is the the the the story behind the yuk porin that that now the question always is is where does yuk pum come from why because if you look in the S of or S of it doesn't have y so now it's an aric it's from the time of the so why don't we have the G why don't we have the G bringing it down so already they point to a line and the say that during the week which we know we have we say these we say some form of which is the he has a he has this he so there is some line in the but why doesn't he have this so this is part of what I said the mystery which is dealt with a little bit with some suggestions in the in these articles especially from this Dan incredible incredible article how he goes through it dealing with the different but the point is like this that the yuk is really the origin of the Mish now why it's not in the but we have strong evidence again through Danzig and through other discoveries that it was a said in we have a quote we have a quote even from Elder safer its own story that they were that they did say some form of a yuk in the times of the was it this this is also this is also a question and part of the mystery which they deal with and the point is eventually the yuk Perkin survives we have it one of our first um sources for this is the great safer incredible safer um when was when was published the M vit the these are the we have now the other s as we find them saying the the of now the question is what do you mean there's no there's no what's going on so the answer is no and this this is what it has to do with this is the the linkage so to speak behind um this this minute now is there anything else that I would like to mention give me one more second my brain is in too many places at the same time so to conclude what we see happen is like this there was a mish the Mish is it did not necessarily start with the but we have shown that already they were making a we showed also that there were oppositions and problems with it and it got out of control and different people held to some people you stop it in some in Yesa World sometimes they're very they try very much to be m in it and we find throughout the ages different discussions about it there was different types of there was heavy and many other things but the point was for for the or for people that were and that through y's listing and and what remains in in the daving after we also say the was saying is for now the point is people that are very high they they're doing things that not everyone's wants to do has a few in how The Importance of Being to be part of a also he deals with this and and to be of course you know when we talk about this topic so so someone might accuse me you're not talking about the current events as you mentioned in the beginning the for the president or forget about the president what about for the so this is its own massive topic and I just to show throw out there marmum a friend of mine put out Butler put out with others a massive book called prayers praying for the Defenders of our destiny the Mish for IDF soldiers mass of how many pages do you think he could write about this topic or put together from different people five over 560 pages so this is its own topic obviously I'm not going to go into all the details and as I said I just trying to give a a brief morus Board of some of the makis lot lot more to say especially on the yuk porin aspect but I feel we just have to give a taste of some of the nas behind this Min of Cl that we now know once again a lot of men huging CL when you look into them a is makus and early very very early M for them behind them excellent excellent okay so thank you very much and since we are recording this during the four Paras I'm sure BR could give episodes about ptim and me hug about where ptim came from so if anybody wants to reach out about that um where I DAV I think this comes from the minut from the book that you read they only say the after they're finished the shots finish and then they say they him for Shak the the mus ones they say in so a big sh came up this past week which comes up every once in a while when it's also and do you sit down then stop and say the before Hal or after Hal right go figure go check the minut whatever they did in Lakewood in 1952 either way right no and that's the whole question is weird coming from exactly it came from the Cutler exactly that's what the CICS are very fond of pointing out such as yes anyway so thank you very much and looking forward to the next episode