Maseches Sotah: Throughout the Generations

welcome back Rabbi Dr Eleazar brat we are back to doing our original series is about to begin we are finishing this at this Nazir we already recorded an episode Special from the status Nazir the controversy of 1513 Nazar Simpson to be released very soon perhaps when you're listening to this so it will already have been released but now we're gonna go and do an episode on masakta saita throughout the generations we've been doing these before every Miss ACTA and Rabbi brought always has something interesting to add about the history of how the massacre was learned some contemporaries for him and maybe some other surprises about whether or not do we ever have a partial of saita happened throughout the generations so Rabbi Dr eliasem it was someone kind enough to step up an unanimous sponsor and sponsoring this episode Lila nishmasked his mother all the learning should be in her memory and should be in Eloy for her Shama Rabbi broth how are you today [Music] okay so why don't you jump right in does it have any interesting stories like nadarim or mayukatan about how it was learned that this is just a regular masecta I'm very very excited by the way because we finally get back to learning Rashi Oh missing the rashes in the daring and Nazir and saita is real Rashi right can we confirm that I'm pretty sure I could not find anyone that does not believe this real Rashi yes it's a lot of people are very excited that's back to real Rashi but as we get to certain parts of Texas over here that's that that will discuss that because there's even Parts in your wires that don't even have places but we'll get to that shortly okay so what we always do is um basically we throughout this we'll see if saita was really learned what does it mean really learned was it learned in Yeshiva curriculums or stuff like that and um and uh that are out there and some other things so first I always throw out there just to begin what about the the tools for the gemara so the gemara there's numerous manuscripts we've been touched we touched a little bit about the general story of manuscripts and the gemara in one of the latest episodes of Heim kaneevsky the Hebrew which is a collection of manuscripts so this masakra saita has two volumesraeli which collects numerous numerous gearsites of the gamaras and kisfaya so it's a valuable tool out there more recent there's been two doctorates written on different also manuscripts and this type of stuff family which also is a sort of more academic version of more academic interpretations which has some usefulness and especially the introduction is very useful also over here okay there's one academic book there's probably many I'm not aware of all the academic books that are on them just one and we'll get to talking about the what it's what the title sounds like in a second um it says it's called attackus shalohaya means say we have um which most of it deals with the saita with a woman and and eventually drinking and possibly um as you called it blowing up so to speak if if she turns out that she's um if that's there's a problem over here which we'll learn about him so there so this is the question is is there's certain suggests like zakimamre we know that it's a sort of like Drake um that it never really happened so there are some people that say maybe Saito didn't happen or if it happened it stopped at a certain point in time um especially um Le Marshall today it's a site of most of is not applicable today especially with all aspects of the techies of Saito so interestingly enough there are there's one Makar from a very interesting region called safrits uni which has gotten Fame in in recent years it's quoted by many Godzilla over the generations but my show is not so into the safer the questions if he wasn't into the safer particular pieces but that's not for now but many good island did um quoted throughout the generations what do you mean your emotion wasn't into the safer there was some I'm not going to get into it now because it's really a very worthy topic one time to talk but there was a manuscript discovered of um which was believed to be from and there were some passages in there that quote that was very problematic certain said it must be that this work is a zeof it's a forgery and one of the ways how they were able to say that it's not a forges because similar pieces are found in the safer it's uni um some people said who is this too unique today we know much more about him um he's much closer to the kuffa the my real you know we know a lot about him we know about the safer the Marshall that he does Pro it and as I said a lot of Hashima people did use it throughout the generations but all in all it is an interesting type of safe you'll find interesting passages such as what we're what I'm about to quote he talks about um he brings down um and the question is is that really true um um what this uni says and there are so so uh so there's a safer which is always worth to know about um on the I mentioned in the past in Massachusetts it's written by a contemporary yid and you shalim David yayovic now he has five beautiful volumes I highly recommend them very fascinating information he has a whole discussion about this uni brings down a whole um a piece from where they discuss um the various makaris that show that there was stories of saita based on gemaras casals that what did happen yeah but the question goes what about after the base of Magnus so this interestingly enough I've quoted him in the past um a friend of mine Rebecca of style he collected a short a few pieces about it others also did um he wrote up about it and now it's no longer it's no longer active but there was an online Journal called dacha and he wrote a three-page article there I'm more than happy to send it to anyone who asked by via email but anyway the sources are that it seems like Marshall there was a Hebrew from written around the year a thousand where there was this great yid um that he it seems like they did do some type of form of a Saito when there was a case and even with the Sheamus and everything like that um so there is some type of source this there are mclares Indonesia not so many but some sources also that it seems they did perform such a thing when there was a shash of a woman and everything and they they did do something similar to what the gamars talk about and just to mention two other things about this one is the story brought down a few different places with at one time um seems the case that there was a woman that there was a hash on her and everything and um bottom line is that she was with this with a man and everything and he brought it in Tyra and um basically they want to pass in the dental without Aiden even said there's no such thing said what do you mean there's a parish of sight uh it seems that he said something to the effect that they should read parisha Saito they should take out the surface and they'll see from this and it seems like certain people didn't want to um do it and they did and it turns out that it was it was um it was Nevada that I believe that it was a it was a problem um this woman was there was based on this after they read the parisha they saw there was there was what to be so to speak andevsky brings this story down to show that sometimes his incredible maifism that happened out of the ordinary this isn't as sure he says that that the the steps where the story exactly happened was still around till right before the war something to the effect so there was some type of all I'm trying to bring out over here is there was some type of there are some type of sources um about them doing this after okay to him and he met him and they recorded something once at a at a prior cm um and regarding the last thing you said is yeah sure where could someone find this orchestration from kanyevsky one second it's a very interesting it's actually a very interesting chapter it's called in parakasha pageant there's some very interesting stories um over there and there actually also brings down one of the versions the whole story by Rico's of this Fida um to show the the mice Sim with with big island okay but anyway this was a just a very big tangent I like to call it and let's get back to the main um focus over here which is first of all to reshine him so we mentioned Rashi it seems by all accounts it's Rashi what about typhus so when you open up your Shas vilna you'll see there's a Texas and you'll also see that there is on the side in a lot of places what's called now in all masaktas there's always a Dion who's the author of The particulate Isis um there's also a tysis rash is it Isis now I am not going to attempt to the the the final call of what's what in all these risham has still not been made because there's constantly new discoveries being made as I'm about to mention and therefore so there was that he wrote about it he published what's called and it's unclear what's what but there's basically if one wants to learn there are various tices and that will help them such as Titus Israel it could be some of them are really the same but that is as far as places goes now is there anything else it's on 1795 the Miri was was published and was used from then on and then in um we've mentioned in the past there was a Hebrew it seems that this person had access to the shooting gubetsis and he published material from the shitun kopetsis on the circus Saito now for many years if one would buy Ishita says they only got up to I believe um one second I'll tell you it did not cover the homicer it was only I think of the first few prakima so even if you did have a shitun kubetsis you just you you you um had a few pages maybe maybe 15 black and then it wasn't even all them and and it wasn't even all that much information so you're pretty much stuck you don't have all that much reshining now turns out that you know as far as new discoveries go and I always like to mention these things so just recently less than three years ago a discovery was made where did this cheating rest has come from in 1800 so it seems this um this goggle um he got a hold of um a manuscript of the shooting robots it seems he had a gamara which had on the side different Horus and the shooting dancers used to make all different types of Corrections and he would add materials on the side so here but he writes in this thing that got it was lost we say he copied x amount of material but then the gamara Disappeared seems the gemara was discovered again and now um we just issued through Meister of cook and tuftion pay alif a beautiful addition with on the whole mess um Nazir I'm getting very confused because Meister of cook has if you if you go to this farm store to buy shooting combats it's from a Meister of cook so they they recently started doing the shooting Baptists so they have what's called a set sheeting robotics so if you buy the volume of saita you'll see it's only a few pages then recently mamish they have a new one and it says on the side you have to look carefully it says and that's on the homosexual this is this brand new discovery from a few years ago they found the gemara of the shin kubetsis with our guys on the side and they were able to publish much more of the rest of the Sacramento although even though they made this discovery it's not like there's a ton I mean say when one learns cheating bad says endless material because it wasn't so learned in the times you show him and the reason is very simple it seems at least it seems and that is is that how the main focus always is most of us have to say to us not so okay one other mission to mention and then we move on is the rambam foreign one of these projects where they reinterpret um the Arabic and everything like that from a fellow of Balsam so he put out the eye Meister of cook a whole fancy Edition with a running beer on the rambam perisham so that's another useful tool because any time we don't have we shine in whatever we shine and we do have we like to mention and know that they're after okay so that that that's briefly the story of the reshaiden but what I'm one thing is it seems from what we know today it wasn't really learned in yeshiva's the daily resident of The Knack if Sheeran site then everything okay now moving on what about here also we don't really have so much it does it seems it was not part of what I called already in the past few a few different times the Yeshiva cycle Marshall but we do have interestingly enough the famous river from the bear Sheva one of the early name so he has the last three prakim he has a parish what's going on why not uh so one of the things is which perhaps a different time will go much more into the um to the actuals of this unique but one of the things he was looking for was masectus that didn't have typhus he wanted to fill in that Gap so back so the end of SATA does not have so much tices so that's why the end of the mastectus of let's say to for example he wrote a parish and so we have a few ProCom from the from the great bearish that's already useful now interestingly enough the Marsha we do have and I has already spoke out a few times Marsha in general it seems he only published on what he learned with talmudum so maybe he didn't give Shir as a Shiva to it but we do um but we do know that even early on his Parish was written with the future of people uh Kyle of some sort so maybe he learned side to adapt but we have a large amount of material inside the from the martial it could be a lot of it's more because it's agato so maybe that's a different story with the Martian I I did not have a chance to look into that but the point is that we have peace other than that at this point if you're if you're handling let's say 1600s there's nothing out there on site for the most part fast forward um for a very long time and I would say the first time a real of I guess a famous work or work that becomes used is in the 18th is in 1869 from the Karen Ira which we've already mentioned a few times in his other his other masectus and he's written about and he's spoken a little bit about his method what about you she was a legend which I always like to talk about for a second so it seems they learned that and Yeshiva just like oh a lot of success we have a nice amount of material from the the tsiv in his miraime Sade so we have that also um but now we're we're getting later and later into the 1800s and there's not any real hiburim on the masakto 1894 the great Glen the great galassiano godo ramaiah Rick Prince and I I this safer became a very famous I did not check how famous it came but from what I always recall it was very it was accepted right away if Ramirez was legendary for amongst other things he had an Incredible kiss and it come it's very it's very clear from learning through the safer you'll see this he's using um badly shalomis and all these types of materials and also reshinen including them Eerie which is in general fits with what we know Rick he was into using all these new China which iron into this year remember what she said was pretty much standard in that period of time anyway wrote Horus Beyond on many of the pieces in this safer from Romeo Rick it's probably he calls him LA Macho remain Miri um we do know that he uses talmud of some sort um that that needs clarification exactly the relationship but the great this great guy Luciano gobble room wrote a lot of Horus on it they're published in his column of Asser and another goddal at the time was a remnassen Sega Landau he wrote a Hebrew on saita called karimnetta literally a year after Amaya Rick and it seems it must be he was brought his intention is also a mayor Rick so then he ends up writing a countries of her auris on the whole Heber um in recent years hold on let me just see where I could find it recent in recent years so in Lakewood I believe it was on second let me check a new edition of the minus came out yeah from Lakewood less than 10 years ago from it was done by Eliezer al-bag and his real cats they did a very nice job with with Harris and they also collected all these what I just mentioned um from ramaiarik and from sorry from Rochelle and Roth and from Los Angeles okay now a little later is an author which we've also mentioned in the past he also wrote a like 708 I believe he learned in valuation 1899 and it seems that at some point he got the khiber over me Eric and he starts using it also fine so already we see I guess in the 1890s there's some more um that some doylem at least are learning it and there's now a nice safer on the masecta and another such safer from nothing segolanda and now you have the Terrace kind of noise fast forward a little later 1914 you have the MinuteCast Epstein who ends up becoming one of the Ayana badats um now he has very safer and in recent years did a massive job on him putting out two volumes collecting all his materials he was close with all the various dailym had a very close relationship and many others and this is also another go-to Cypher became on masakta saita okay fast forward a little later 1929 so this safer I don't know if I came across it before but recently uh my brother-in-law was mentioning to me about zaita that there's such a safer for something for some other reason it's called it's from remichel Winkler so originally this person seems to have been born there Israel and then he ends up becoming a RAV in a few different places uh Copenhagen it says and he had a mind-boggling wikius um very could I to have the safer it's available on Hebrew Books tonight um interesting I try to find material about him and it seems there does exist but I was not able to get it in time um in the in the newspapers the mavasa newspapers a few years ago printed some material about there's a Winkler in Lakewood and there was just an article I know they're from Denmark and there was a yid who was like 100 years old and he just passed away I'm assuming it sounds like yes yeah I think it is their family and it's caval because I would have reached out years ago about it but I think it is that family yeah yes correct that's why I'm able to see so anyway the point is that there's this um but the safe also again has very tremendous the kids were talking of um mind-boggling and also of everything that's out there but again even in the mayor Rick we have this and we have this in the say foreign are Great Farm to know about they're all available on Hebrew books now um just to drop go off a drop um we have on the rambam so already there was a safer from a Reb Ravel or a safer called eitzer hasita in the 40s where he deals with the rambam he I guess he collected what he felt about or what he had access to various rambam manuscripts and materials of the Rama of different printings of the rambam and he wrote a different style Heber on different aspects of the using the ramaman saita as a springboard to talk about this this safer um one of the ways I came across that I did I might have it I don't remember anymore but I did come across it through seven in his book reviews he reviews the safest I always remember about that also and his father was a Revell from Yeshiva University who was a prolific author of an I don't know prolific author but he wrote very beautiful many beautiful articles similarly there's also foreign Brewer type style which we've discussed already a few times in the in bothevsky that they became a whole genre to copy the Mr Brewer a new dude on the rambam and even on others farm and there's a long list created of these type of farms so almost have to cited there is one such safer um from someone I believe it's someone in binay braca someone who learns in panovich shraga rep shragersteinfeld and it's a very nice safer where what what's interesting is when you open up the safer for this particular safer is we just got finished saying Saito doesn't have all that many mafar shim there's not that many we shine them but when you look at the safer it's a few hundred pages and he has tons and tons of army kindness and it looks like there's a lot to say about site even without the reshinen um okay but is there other swarms so there are um so just to mention a few more contemporaries Farm is fowls what is the this Rebel yashiv the series of verbal yashers inside the very nice stuff so the whole Hebron James a few times there's another safer which I'll just mention for a different reason the safer darkid from Cassel I think he was a magic chair in itri and um one of the things that's always interesting is Farm is so this is current I believe he's still he's still alive um I'm actually didn't check into it but he has a vicious um attack on our generation or like a real real serious hardcore musash moves about different things that are going on I guess in the 80s and 90s even which would definitely be applicable to us today I might it might have been censored out of later editions of the safer but I have somehow I have a PDF of the hagdama if someone wants to read it it's a very Stark a muscle schmooze about different things going on now um just to mention literally a few weeks ago uh safer came out on site to call Magilla saita also when you open it up if you if you were nervous you didn't ever shine him not gonna have what to learn so this is a come out a thousand page safer on saita um and then just yesterday I picked up a safer from this is real cat so I mentioned he was involved with the Memphis so he put out also a almost thousand page Safran saita from Lakewood and one of the things that's interesting is that saita has a lot of different suggests I saw him on Shabbos there was an advertisement for the famous tafia that's in ramapi chemist but it's posted worldwide from revised stefansky so they trying to they're always trying to get people to join um the the sector so they have they broke down someone broke down all the different suggests that one could find in masakta saita so what so so each one really technically I should give a share about all the smart but I felt you know to give to talk about every safer that could be a half Ahmed then we'll then we'll be English but one of the interesting things is this fellow um just to throw out in this is real cats wrote conscious a bunch of years back about the arum so here he published it in this safer aliber maybe it's updated I didn't check and he also has Horus of various people in the back and he has he never published before artists of ramesha Feinstein on masakta Saito so it sounds also promising I just got it yesterday so I can't comment about it and one last thing that also came out from Lakewood from the other fellow who worked on Israel bag which is they have the hagueis of diskin on his gemara so here they publish from time to time with sometimes to make a fancy auditions but they have his Horus over sholay with explaining what these Horus are so that also just came out the past few days okay now just to conclude with two last things number one one of the one of the suggests that um so this I'm not going to start mentioning all the sperm out there that there are on Birches in recent years but kedarka of these type of things there's a lot I'll just mention three that I came across recently ones that say for Esther kappai um published hold on printed in the past three four years from a fellow cats so here he has a lot of discussion on the on with letters also a guy from different people relating to Tennessee but he also has many shirom he picked he found some type of topic almost in every parachute Italian another safer near also a safer on hillcrime with the emphasis of not only now but also based on migdush this came out in the past year another safer came in the past few years called Baruch which is what about the Israel that's getting getting blessed at this time is those of that that Focus everyone's always looking for an angle so here you have inverse that just to mention is just now my friend yakushpigo put out a safer opponents that took place in the late 1700s also something to do with and he printed all the different from manuscript which shows the minig and discussion of minig that ends up happening um in in what was going on in Italy about interesting safer that just came to print also this past year the last thing to mention is a nice amount of material I go Rufus so that everyone today in the past year has become very famous the Nationalist could die to learn and we devoted a whole s um episode just on this safer to discuss the hashivas of the safer mind-boggling goals Farm worthwhile to keep in mind when you get up to those parts at least it's available on Hebrew books and one could just pull it off and look at it and see and enjoy but these are just some of the um materials in all in all from what I always heard I I did learn it very um quickly a few times it's a beautiful massage it's very kadai to learn even if you're not learning always but this it's easy masakta it's a few months of learning and you gain a lot from it okay now there's one safer that deserves its own mention over here and that is like this I mentioned that basically from the 17 from the 1600s pretty much till 1894 there's almost nothing but it turns out it was something written in that period of time devoted okay and that is a safer called and this name was um and we mentioned them actually why because he was known is in in this the famous actress um so a few years ago and right before that famous learning was Excellence Yuma they found his manuscripts on Yuma and they published it okay turns out I have a Shalom a few years earlier in 1999 I believe it was they published his from Xavier they call it the reason they call like this is because he deals with literally everything he focuses I'm shot he focuses on gear so he's he focuses on Kabbalah because there's a lot of I got to in here he's now turns out this Mahaba was a guy in Islam but he was also known as a tremendous macabul almost nothing was published in his lifetime but it seems a lot still exists today Professor mayor binio wrote a massive beautiful article on him and his son published in the journal Mikhail and later on I have a Shalom based on newer materials that they got besides the article from which they do give the credit to they added more information about his gregado and they printed it a beautiful Edition and it sold out immediately in 1999 and for years people were looking for it when you learn a set of site the finally a safer comes out on the home now when does this die he dies in 1733 so here we have an early but it takes years it takes till 1999 until it comes out but what what all that we see is there was someone that did learn this music and fascinating fascinating safer and then I have a shalom in recent years they finally did republish it I believe you could get it today he was a great macabo even brings down tire that he had in his dreams in this safer and his other writings and there's a there's Mario the come of some stories about him and the in the fascinating work mice at sadika from Abraham remember from California was only publisher manuscript also recently but they knew about it earlier who was the footnoter or one of the footnotes of this Madura four I have a Shalom this author of the magidan Kardashian so it was very interesting so he did a good job and the last point is there's interesting pieces of muster also first generation in this safer also excellent very well worth your time to read but in general this is a Hebrew on the homo sector so it's it's a fitting um um uh conclusion because I I basically listed at all this Farm I take a big jump to the um 1894 when Romeo Rick publishes and then I jump all the way to the Heineken to the more recent Farm but then this was a manuscript discovered um and now generation will result to it to using it to have it and many people use it as I said it was it's all that right away it's available now in second printing so it's worth knowing and using and maybe even buying amazing so while you were going on I quickly Googled um this Winkler and he had a son in Lakewood or Menasha Winkler and you heard the gabrier met him they had their thing with the mishpacha meeting eyes of the angels and then I see David wrote an article about the Sun and he writes there that this father who McCall to be Winkler died in America in 1932 fundraising and he's buried in Queens and they have a picture of the Khan I think visiting his caver and his son learned by all the yeshivas by baranovic and radin and kaminitz and they have a fascinating discussion if anybody wants that um you could Google it or reach out to me and the second thing is is that this is real cats I know personally very very well lives pretty close to me and he told me he's putting out the safer and he mentioned to me that he got I think 18 pages of never published before manuscripts from Ramos that you mentioned were were redone and printed in the safer so watch Hashem the moral of the story is that even though attacking the times we were shining they barely learned it but today there's no excuses especially after you have art scroll Hebrew English you must sifta you have everything and you have all that so there's no excuses not to uh learn the music at least this music to forget about that but yeah take one of these foreign you know sit down on Shabbos for a little bit of time and open up this far in this fascinating material and insights from these new sperm that you just mentioned and thank you very much and looking forward to the next one foreign [Music]