Maseches Horayos Throughout The Generations

[Music] Welcome back, Rabbi Dr. Alzarat. Pleasure to have you for our original series as we begin mass. Now, one may think that since this is the shortest maka that we are recording an episode for will be the shortest episode, but no, no, no. The shorter the msaka is probably more information about how it was learned and what was written about it, what wasn't written about it. So stay tuned. But as Rabbi Bro always says, as mentioned in last week's par, he always has on us and he's not going to keep us too long. But for any further questions, please reach out to Rabbi Doctor. He anticipates hearing especially the people that take objection to things that he says. Um he tries he tries not to be controversial. Um maybe he should be more controversial. Either way, reach out to him. Tell him what you like, what you don't like. If you want to sponsor an episode, that will be phenomenal. And of course, check out his website alzar.com where there's just new things happening there all the time. And you won't regret it. Without further ado, oh, we have to mention we have a sponsor for this one. This episode has been sponsored for the success of David Ben Sophia or David or David Ben Sophia. He should have masha in all his endeavors. Without further ado, Rabbi Dr. Alazar brat once. >> Okay. So basically as you said so beautifully in the introduction this is a small very small maka 13 and a half blot whatever it is. Okay. So number one number one is that um we like to point out sometimes sometimes there's a to learn the so it seems that there was a minig in the uh the balm or in other circles famous for the iman wrote um he had a minig that he would finish to be messiah for pes because he couldn't pick a big maka to do a he had to do it because he had a son that was a bakar when this is he's talking about he says I had a lot of um he's busy rav so he couldn't pick a big mak to be so it's a small maka so he would do it um and then afterwards after his son got old enough he kept up with this minig so later on he met vice also a famous Hungarian Rav who told him that this is also the minigan presser from the times of and they connected Dafa to learn it in the the days before Pes something to do with the with these the days of the Bim and the DA will learn it then he says that over here in so he told him a reason he didn't remember then didn't remember what the reason was and the of his he talks about this minute again of his and he tries to explain some reasoning behind it okay so we always like to find such a We had some other mak such a thing also. There's certain times that people had a minute to finish to we'll see more about that soon when people actually learn Tyrese. We'll see some more in this episode. But just one other before we always begin. Sometimes if we're to find the words of the great somewhere buried in his writings, we always like to quote it. So in a book review of of which I'll discuss briefly towards the end he talks so he says makas at first appears a small little but and not only that early on which we'll also discuss briefly um and it's published in the back you'll see which we don't find any has in the standard gamarra he says even though it's so small but and are it's but there's a lot of other suggest in here and it's in all all in all it's a beautiful ma there's a lot there's a lot of also and um now we'll mention briefly throughout the ages about this so number one we always like to talk about we always mention throw out there the gear so this still has and in recent years in 2005 Shalom published a volume which we'll discuss more about but one of the things in this volume is they have aad um um that they found another that did not have which was published by Dublitzki on the whole very very important stuff in here because it shows different um um a lot of times when we have these manuscripts it shows the which we're going to hear about how they exist the few rishim that they're on this ma that sometimes in our gear or the gear they took we don't have a mar but in this nuke that they found the garra there is for these manus these git of these okay there's just one one book to mention that Steinfeld wrote a massive book on okay fine we always like to throw out there also so in recent years the new project of continuing with bam lavine's earlier project headed by broady and others so they have a few pages of gynam but nothing major Okay. So now what will you say like this? You open up your garra and if you even if you're using an art scroll um I don't have art scroll in front of me right now but if you open up your standard chass va so it looks like has a lot happening. You have rashi a ton of rashi you you'll notice right away something unique that there's two columns of rashi not rashi and tyisus matan and then on the bottom you'll see tissus you'll see on the senano on the other side you'll see tyus rash. So the jammed already the size of more than a standard um ma that we that you learn. Now the the question is was it always like that? The answer is is if you pull out if you have handy the first printing of the shas the bramberg in 1520s you'll see that if you open up the shass the garra is very very empty. The page all it has is rashi doesn't have tyus. So much so that they already write on the sh that we printed the garra the shalomi they call it which we don't do up till now. Why? Because there's there's no typhus. We don't have typhus. So we want to we need you to have some material. So they go out of their way to put in on this what what happens we just said in the if you open it up there's all these other things happening. Okay. So first let's just throw out about you show me this accident or whatever it's not accident they were doing which I've mentioned in the past a few different times a lot of times different printings they like to they needed material so they would each one would try to up the next one so even early on in the of where they didn't have so they had to go resort to turns out this these pages help for those that are in which especially in let's say like where you're always scrambling for as much information as you could so has a very important um article where a whole big study on us threw this piece these that Bramberg by mistake put in the or not by mistake just to make sales they put in the back it helps out a little bit and general the ones is very hard points to that already has great difficulty he has to play around a lot with the okay so now we go on and we look at rashi so I already said that there's something unique happening over here in Rashi. It's two columns. Now, well, one could say that that the as one notices in the blat and it's a very packed blat. So, it's not the end of the world why there's more looks like there's more rashy because it's proportionally there's so much on the blat. But is that true? Okay, could be could be is more we'll have to wait for someone to make a word count. So the so it turns out that different people at a certain point in time started saying maybe it's not rashi. So already the famous tyima khali the epstein said that he suspects it's not rashi. later on or around the same time professor Yakamstein based on his expertise in rashi and dash of rashi says it's not rashi and other and because of this other people also did mol says it um in in his work and cipher also points out that it's not rashi now recently in um again referring back to this volume that a shalom published in 2005 rabbit zlitzky did a massive study on rashi on the maka and he His conclusion is it is rashi and it's um don't say that it's not rashi and he points to he first he they not only that they he located um a new manuscript of rashi which is very important in the suga of rashi so so first that's his that's his mascana he points to two points that are very valid in this conversation but they some of the people especially was aware of this point and he also deals with it which plays out we've discussed already in a few different mas about which is Is it really rashi or not? So he points out bring down rashi. The rash which we're going to see about talk about shortly. They bring it down as rashi. Another thing is the which we're going to talk about his relationship to this ma also refers to rashi the whole time and he was one of the people that we've mentioned in previous episodes when it's not rash and certain he'll point it point that out. But lisa experts I spoke to various people. Well, one expert told me even if it's not Rashi, it's for sure from the race medish of Rashi. Another person told me no, maybe it's it's more likely it could be it's rashi and we know there's a famous topic which he also touched on in the past that sometimes rashi there was different maduras of rashi. So as the time went on that he worked on it, he fine-tuned it and he even cut it down to be more um um exact. Anyway, leisa this is a um unsolved thing but as I said in the addition raalitzky his conclusion is that it is rashi. Okay. Now what no one pointed to was what's the earliest source that even suspected that it might not be Rashi um and others when they talk about it they refer to but it turns out it's much earlier in the which I've quoted a bunch of times that was to learn with David um he was a wealthy man and he wrote a beautiful cafer which I've quoted a bunch of times called and already there in his few pages on two times he also himself points out that that this is not he thinks that there's something up with this rashy. Okay. Anyway, now now this gets to the ne another part of the story. We said if you open up you seean on the side is this right away more recent years they pointed out that this is not but it is an early it's okay this is this is based on all the of professor Abramson epste and more recently in the from journal online from which we've quote in the past a bunch of times doctor pick is all these and this also plays out in rashi also as he sets up if Rashi had or this parish or and he talks about it also. Okay. Anyway, so the point is we're now seeing there's a story about Rashi on the page and Raan on the page. Now, what about Tyus? How when does Tyus come onto the page? So, turns out like this. First, what what is the most famous um earliest of a on the So, it's known as the Berva. Now what's interesting is the besv is published in 1614. He's a Talmud of the Lavush. He has comes from such people as the moral his son-in-law others and and his rabbi the Lavos and he writes on a few makas and shass and the point that he was doing was the makus that didn't have tus he was writing a mish to be to tis. So already in his point in time there was no Tyus on the side still and um and he was try he was trying to I guess in some way also even mimic the way Tyus would learn up and and put put that down now the is considered one of the you could see already from the how they talk about him but but more than that in he has a fascinating fascinating I'm very fond to say that a lot of times you get insight in a whole world can be revealed to you from this this of this and basically he talks about how he was to learn this he he first he says something which relates to the episode that we just released on that he was to learn all these different aspects he spent a lot of time learning but he gets to and he sees it's there's nothing going on there's no one there's nothing on this mak there's no tis even there's a few mus and there's mistakes and he doesn't know what to So he starts he's going to start learning it and when does he learn it with friends again here's an early time where the lion of basim can be found and he didn't think it's going to take so long how long is it going to take to learn this it's a small little pitch he ends up learning it he's been and he spends years on it he I guess in my terms that I'm fond of using he falls into the rabbit hole oft starts learning it m now he uses the following terms that he doesn't miss out going through and he works on this and he puts it out. Now eventually he does this this type of to some other such as which we'll have to wait to discuss. He sends off this and one of the reasons why he sends it off to is because he felt that maybe they'll be able to assist him because in Artis they have rear gumaras. Um ear calls them ancient Gamaras from the times of Kazal and so he wanted to make sure to see if they talk about the gear because he also is fond of the gear. Okay. Interestingly enough um he gets her Israel. It seems they're very fascinated by the safer. Um it seems an illegal edition of this safer gets out there which he's not too happy about and then he publishes it and says don't use that in first edition and make a long story short that he also talks about he gets into cabala how um he's very into cabala and how he got to that and he had he mentions over here that he gets hooked up with razar um the rami pano and most importantly rais where so basically he's getting what he says direct messy from the rial and other fascinating things can be found in this um fascinating introduction. So the point is he started out why did he start learning because it wasn't learned. He thought there's nothing on it. He'll do it and then he falls into it spends years on it. Okay. But what and okay so the point is that there's no TIS at this point and this is 1614. The Misa fast forward a bunch of years later and all of a sudden we find Tyus is published. Now where when how this Tyus is published when's the first time it's published? So we'll always we refer to um my one of my favorites to so he talks about um who is where is where does it come from? So it seems that in some additions early editions it said that it's from Eling etan. So it seemed that certain people assumed that this was he was that this was a balis one of the balletis with such a name it's not says he brings down it's not um that it just means that he had and he brings down that this is what Steiner and Dr. Suns they also came to the conclusion but the point is that this Yid turns out we know about this Yid he was alive in he was Adam Godal in 1645 he publishes a cafer called Brisavia interesting safer which is available on Hebrew books and he somehow had a manuscript of Tyus and eventually many years later gets published so you can look more about it in Marvin Hell's book printing on the Talmud and again Sallitzky in this book put out by Shalim he talks about it it seems it was published for the first time in 1695 or maybe a little later in 1720 20s. Okay. So, now we're seeing how Tyus gets um gets revived. So, that's why the BVA doesn't have thought. What about Tyus Rush? We said so Tyus Rush is published in 1725 in Prague and it's very important not only because it's a Tyus rush and and every region that we could dig up on called we want but he brings a ton of Rama Rama we've spoken already in the a few different times already. So, we'll tell you to look there. It's published based on a manuscript from the shitas who had a crazy library which we also mentioned and again balitzky talks about he publishes not only that a new um based on new manuscripts of the tis rash in this edition of published by shalom and he also discusses the the kashivas of what he has found. Okay. So at we see the story of how the rishim come to to print so to speak. What about you want to learn besides the bva is there anything else? So in 1732 is published the great it'sem one wants to learn about his in general even though it's not so much on but we have to mention it and um you can look in which which was recently published by a shalom um even though it was published earlier but they got manuscripts from the nephew of margles and more materials a fascinating addition kadai to look at. Okay, fast forward. We have the as uh people listening to these episodes in general will know I'm very fond of the here we have something very unique which is like this. We have a that wrote on chass. In general, we don't really have that wrote on chassis is one is I think the only that he wrote up straight on. We say we have a lot of his material on but as a on a whole we don't have except this safer. Not only that, this is his first safer that he published. Interestingly enough, this is publishing this when he's very young. He wanted to publish it already at the age of 31. right in the beginning of his travels already he wants to publish it he publishes it in the age of 33 when one opens up this we are blown away because a lot of times you think you know Adam it takes time to become already at 31 he's already this yid who's holding in all the manuscripts and he's holding in everything and when one learns the shar of the we see he's full-fledged he's already involved with manuscripts of the garra that he saw he's involved with manuscripts of the rishim he saw the miri before we we have it today but he already saw a manuscript He already mentions in his mag how he saw the Tyis rush. Now he didn't know about that the Prague edition 1725 which is in his lifetime because he didn't travel yet to that area. So he saw it and he discusses it and he uses it. The Rama is very important for him and he handles with all the Ramas throughout this ma. So this and when you see this you first could see the unbelievable of his everything is going on over here and this is an incredible incredible safer. Um it's available. It was republished a bunch of different times and I believe a shalom um we we'll discuss how it was reprinted um shortly. Now one zaita that comes up which plays out with and the and the travels. So I apologize but I just feel that I have to mention it. I'm f I'm very fascinated by the travels. So interestingly enough we discussed a bunch of times wrote his travels when he was collecting money farra in one of the early entries in one of the first years of his travels he writes that he gets to a place in Germany and he meets this um he meets different people over there and he starts he describes that he meets this adim he starts talking to him and learning and he's blown away from his karifus and his bakio and he says this guy shows me his khadushim on hyius And he uses which is a praise. Then he says, okay. Then he says, I saw that a lot of things. Now it's interesting is because these are the years when the he's working on the that we're just talking about. So it's it's that he's he's holding this again. He's being so then says that I saw this and I made a on seeing Adam. Now we know in the we have the travels. He doesn't say this except one other time when he meets the Yeshua and he met many other people as one could see in the thing. So it's to me it's pur he meant literally he met on this now he seems to be fascinated with this person already in the work on on he quotes him a bunch of times and and um other times he was and and not only that and he talks about him and it turns out that this he he writes about him that this was he used to finish every month thing he was a he And it turns out um this or whatever. So he is being disposal at this yakid and it turns out he meets his the um or it turns out this yid had two one of them was the which we spoke about in the get of cleaves episode another one was of berlin and they learned in the in the yeshiva of the chevant and the point was these were all they all very close and the materials are all they quote each other in their materials this reg didn't publish anything am I located that the manuscript of his manuscripts of his still exist to publish many years ago in Yeshu one of his when I discussed this whole episode and this whole story of the of the when he's meeting him but this is just a cool thing you see he's learning hyas he meets him he discusses with him he's blown away he ends up making him okay fast forward to 1802 1802 all of a sudden the story turns to Prague there's a yid there ranberg born in 1762 dies in 1820 so this yed He turns out it was a Y he just hadn't learned he did not want a stellar he was offered stellars in in um and he just plugs away. So in 1802 he publishes a called which is a onius where he's everything as he says in the he sets out to be rashis and then and he says even the shalom and the ramam I talk about okay now this when you look at the safer right away we have a letter over here from carl fiser the famous sensor of prague lot to discuss about him but um the point is it has three escomas very one of them is rebel fleckless fleckless says you're going to say why should he print the safer everyone knows now imagine in 1802 they're already talking about that there's too many swarm out there imagine what they would say about today now rebel flex says I know already the old tino which is a known tino that after the printing press there were certain cynics that already said that when the printing press came out it made it terrible because everyone thinks they have to publish a safer now so this is fast forward in 180 He says don't think this safer something unique. So it's a fascinating thing and a story of kates and as it plays out is its own story. Now get he gets from different people different people that he is just to mention his mayor fishless and the kadesh. So the they gave him a onido and on the onid was only published from a few years back but and sukus I believe were lost. Now as I again already even said this episode hagdas in general are fascinating when they are when they have information this he gives to all his so he gives you a whole glimpse into all the different people that he learned by and each one it's its own story which one day I hope to give a whole episode at least one or two about him in depth but basically he sits and plugs away and learns um he gives to his wife thanking her for running the store being able to mfar him he thanks his for supporting him x amount of time and all his different he talks about over here the he sees that hyius is sitting on the side no one's learning it so he decides to sit and learn and he's ma and he learns it properly so now he says okay there's a tyus so he talks about tyus he handles who is the typhus and which we already discussed he adds in his own two cents he talk he adds in some interesting piece of information but he says bottom line is it's very bitzer it needs a beer then he tells you about the tyis rash which we also spoke about it's also he talks about the he says also there's a everyone knows the marsh says he says interesting thing I always say many episodes I've mentioned that when the mash himself says that if there's a of his means he learned it says ranber he suspects he didn't learn with because the way it's written okay I'm not bi to say such a thing but I definitely trust ranber one could look in his was into the marsh and that published many years ago of collecting his other materials. You'll see that he has a lot of so he he knew this. He also then he talks about the um's work. And then last but not least, he says he knows that there's a but he doesn't have it. It didn't get here. He tried to get the to send it to him but it didn't come here and I'm very sad about it. Okay. So you see already that the in 1802 is known about him in it's known that is out. And mind you, as I said, it's already out for a while, but it not always does this farm get to different places and he's trying to get it. Interestingly enough, the did get a hold of this safer. Not that he quotes it in the safe because it's published in 1802. And before he dies, he quotes it in one of his farm. This is a found in the in the a fascinating all about this great in the edition of the chuv and and other writings of range that they published. Okay. Now just to finish up just a few other on this um number one and they learn this it's clear even says a few times some I didn't see notice by him often but he says mean and says this in to his part of the idea when he giving over to the he was on different ideas all which is known from kazal so he says this um a few different times a few different ideas that came to him while through this concept. Another thing is we see a great usage of the and he quotes the rash with zatal. So this would date that learned this after 1872. Another is the which we also mentioned many times. Another great literature. Another great literature that's tied to isog published for the first time in 1912. Now what's unique about this is it was done by two people which I believe in the past I've mentioned him briefly of his father was a was a and this was one of the great until he made alias um a lot has been written about him. I I recommend highly the various articles of atam henin where he discusses a lot of fascinating materials available in English book in Hebrew about in there's other materials about him and he wrote it with his brother-in-law another great and there's a fascinating um where you see they they um talking about learning together and putting out something together which happens to be very very unique in the past I've mentioned There's very few farms that are written by Kavusa. One of them I am very fond of quoting about is Zeras when he was 13 years old. him and his twin brother. They put out a kibber a work that I said on one hand is very depressing on one hand is beyond amazing of gansas from all the tyis and gansas the mafalpul and all the kullim and they put this out as twins together and there's kiadua which we mentioned in my first episode relating to which was about the mach mat controversy the controversy with the mish and his brother-in-law and they learned and put out many together which is interesting is they put it in theird They mentioned such a thing already then I mentioned that there's a that questions what we know or we know so how does it work when it's two people so how he handles it but the point is that they put out the safer they didn't put out the safer actually the son of of yafi set out to publish various materials of his father and this was one of the works that he published as a fascinating onius Um now why the sun publishes it also because he says this mak is a mace mitzvah. So even as far as 1912 it was not a learned mto. Okay, fast forward to the late 1950s as a safer from a frame garb called Harisher on the he was a one of the greatest liter the pre-war standards farum of of the litfisher world fascinating safer um fascinating always it brings back fond memories of the youth I used to love this cafer um now so he's a tal of his he makes a versman rezog and this was a fascinating yo uh many like many other fascinating we have and Zean wrote a excellent book review which is what I quoted in the in beginning the episode from okay fast forward to get to the conclusion of this is like this in 1969 so first we see that there is msaram here and there but it's hard you know you have to get to it and everything okay bar sha put a lot on the page but in 1969 the ganakhski family publishes what's called was called by one of my rabbim called it the big black monster a giant giant volume bigger than the stand the biggest shas vnumarus which has in it they went out of their way to collect all the materials that they were able to locate including manuscripts on they publishes it in 1969 now when I was in bish at the time I was learning haris I was desperate to get a copy of it was very rare and one of my first items that I went hunting when I came to was for this gigantic big black monster and I located it and I paid a lot of money for it and it was but the problem was it was so big you had to lug it around you could barely use it and and the letters are tiny so it starts out with the they got a hold of the millili and then they had even perish which if it's this is the author or not is its own conversation and and then they have tons and tons of printed not manuscripts also so basically is you have you're left with if you get if you could get a hold of this safer um no excuse because you have a ton of information. The only problem is you need to have a it's gigantic but even though it's gigantic you need to have a magnifying glass. It's tiny tiny letters. Now the same time they publish a the which is also this master safer. So you have to walk around these two two masses far. Okay. So very unfair. Barak Hashem in the early 2000s. Ahava Shalom goes ahead and publishes it in a smaller size. It looks like this and much more user friendly. It's still big, but you could lug it around easier. The is it's a shame it's small. So if you pass a certain age or if you don't have the right glasses, it's it's going to be a problem. But no excuses. Now today we have we have article. So they use this and we have to mention also the mitnik put out also based on hundreds of so all these three um are on the they outdate the famous other earlier um on from um and there was the fromski also on so even though it's a tiny ma there's a ton to learn even the bladder even though it's the blad full blot is a lot of rashy get ready to learn it and you can have lots of fun with the mas also and um that's all we'll talk about we'll have on the audience as you said I have to have >> thank you very much Rabbi Dr. and thank you to our sponsor again it was dedicated for the success of David Ben Sophia and Rabbrat there's only 13 days to learn Mr. What are we supposed to do with all the books that you want us to lug around? >> So, you just use art scroll or vah and you're good to go. Actually, no. I saw advertisement. We have to say this. I saw advertisement. I don't know what it is yet. I didn't see. But there's a special gumar fork. So, I don't know what that is. It's a It's a new It's art. It's his own thing. I have to see what it is. >> Yeah, it says easy to read MDY style translation or something. So we'll have to wait to hear the book reviews about this. What it is competition to art scroll I don't know anyways. Yeah. >> Okay. Um why were you learning makas in mismedish >> in my yeshiva where I attended b medish we is was called yeshiva shahyra and rash one of the rash of the yeshiva is named rabbi shalom spitz who is my uncle and rebi and he's fond of the makus he's given many many sher over the years and yeshiva on makus toward shabas and stuff like that as extra things already then we were learning hyus so we all knew about musky um so that's how I started with makasyus >> incredible okay so now we're looking forward um I think we may need special episodes on this because we're starting sed kachum >> correct >> and sed kachim is its own world >> wow >> it own world of lack of lack of >> what is the whole development of the brisket the yeshivas on say their catch. >> You'll have to call in. Oh, you're Oh, we could call we could we we could flip the mic around and you could give the take of all the years spent in the brisk of the today already also of some what's of the inner inner scoops of what's happening. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, we have to get a hold of some of the heft. We should start introducing these words to the the listeners now. have the notebooks of the Tom >> the notebooks and yes exactly exactly all the notebooks. >> Okay. Um you know the authorized the unauthorized of Shirim that are out there but I brought I trust that you're going to do a thorough job on researching this topic. >> I no I I as I said it many times in the past I stop after by World War II. If I mention something afterwards that's fine because I especially this I can't touch only started after World War II. That's what I have to show. My job is to show that what was going on before World War II. Now then the the many and brisk they'll shoot me. So I I can't talk about topics that I'll be getting too many emails of all the mistakes that I made. I wasn't to learn by the brisk tradition of Israel. >> Any of those people who are listening to this episode are on the emails. They could they could they could handle it. [Music]