Was Rabbi Akiva’s Perspective on Sukkos Shaped by His Extraordinary Marriage?

Okay, this is really what the Gomorrah say, but the drash is good drash. And I think there's a beautiful lesson about um about life and about Sukkot. Well, let's start, okay? Starting point is is that there's a great machlokes um um tanaim, one that you're probably exposed to, about what the sukkah recalls, what the objective of the sukkah is. Is it meant to recall the ananei hakavod, the clouds that protected us when we traveled through the desert? Or is it meant to recall the um the little huts we built for ourselves when we traveled through the desert. This is I mean, this is standard standard sukkah discussion. So, let's start with the Gomorrah and the first source, source one, the Tanyum. Kiva sukkah se'achatis bnei Yisrael. Let us see as Hashem let us sit in sukkah places in sukkah or afford us the opportunity to sit in sukkah. What were these sukkahs? So, here's there's the machlokes. Um Rebbe Eliezer says they were ananei hakavod. Ananei hakavod are you the Rebbe Eliezer. Rebbe Akiva says sukkah mamesh Hashem. Kiva they were actual booths. Now, um according to this opinion, and this is the one that we'll be following, Rebbe Akiva is the one who says they were booths, and Rebbe Eliezer says that they were clouds. Now, the Mechilta reverses that. It's important to sort of, you know, >> Is it possible a booth that's made out of cloud? >> Mhm? >> Is it possible that it's a booth made out of cloud? >> Um I I I think each accepts the other, but I think the reality is a logical reality is is that people need homes. If they're traveling in the desert, where do they sleep, right? So, they needed homes. So, they had little huts, and the pasuk is explicit in saying that they were ananei hakavod that traveled before them. So, the pasuk is absolutely explicit about clouds. The um I I think it's obvious to us that people people need homes, right? Well, people are not going to sleep out in the open, right? Uh men and women and families. So, they had they had both. And how do they have these little homes? They built them, right? So in in all probability, I mean I think it's almost illogical to say that they both are untrue. They had huts. And they had homes. The question is what do our sukkas recall? Do our sukkas recall the huts or do our sukkas recall the homes? So let's go with the Gemara as we have it. The Gemara um tells us that Rebbi Akiva is the one who stresses the homes. Um Rebbi Eliezer says it we stress the clouds. I will say the Mechilta reverses it. Okay? It's important to know that. We're not going to involve the Mechilta. Now, before we go any further, if indeed that the sukkas um are recalling the um clouds, right? Then the famous question is is why just clouds? Why don't we recall the man? Why don't we recall the bear? Why are we calling the clouds? That's the Rashba's question. Like why there are three classic miracles that accompanied us through the desert, right? There's Moshe, there's Aaron, there's Miriam. And in the zechus of each one there was a miracle, right? And and the miracle sort of captures the essence of each one, that's another discussion. But there were three uh great leaders, right? They were these three pillars, they were three miracles, but we only recall one. So this is really a real segway. The Rashba says something really nice. He says the water was necessary because we couldn't have survived without water. So when took us out it was obvious he would provide water. The um bread was necessary. Without bread we wouldn't survive. Clouds were not necessary. Clouds were really a statement of affection. And because of that they're more sign >> Sun? >> You could survive with the sun overhead. It's not going to you I mean people live with the sun over >> they had huts. >> They had huts also, right? They slept in huts. Right? So the clouds were extra. Because of that we recall it because it's it's a sign of endearment. It's a sign of love. It's something special. But that's It's really what I want to focus on, okay? Now, the starting point of our discussion is going to be a very wonderful article, and he asks an obvious question. He says, "If the sukkas recall the clouds, well, then we're we're recalling a miracle, and and we do recall miracles, right? At at the seder, we recall the makos, and and after shabbos, we recall kriyas yam suf, and miracles are are worthy of recollection. So, if the sukkas recall the clouds, then they were recall something extraordinary that Hashem did for us. The clouds protected us, they made the traveling easy, they saved us from danger, and they miracles are well worthy of recollection. But, if the sukkas only recall the huts that we built for ourselves when we traveled through the desert, what's the big deal? Why in the world are we, you know, making a whole big deal out of it? There's nothing there. Like, what's Every one of us, you know, you live in a house, right? You don't live in the street, right? And so, what are we recalling? And so, what developed the answer? So, the answer is, he says, "That's worthy of Right, but that the answer is is also worthy of focus. You know, sometimes it's really important to remember the great things that Hashem does for us. That motivates us to be good from Jews. But, sometimes we have to recall the great things that we do for ourselves to remind ourselves that we have the power to grow, we have the power to be great, we have the power to accomplish. So, you know, people everyone every person in his life such as life will go through a mishbar. It's going to be a period when you're down, whether it's economically or socially, every one of us is going to have a moment when we're just not together, right? When things are really down, when things aren't good. At a moment like that, what do you have to do? You have to look back and remind yourself of the great things that you accomplished. Welcome back, okay? So, the answer is it's a very beautiful and it's very correct. Um both are really true. The idea that the sukkas recall the clouds, the miracles that Hashem did for us, for sure that's true. We have to recall the Nisan that God has brought for us, for us, and that's a mainstay of of of Yiddishkeit, right? Um after till Pesach and Pesach and of course we recall that. And Matan Torah, we recall uh God has brought for us and the miracles and and and it's something well worth a recollection. But we also have to remind ourselves that we have capability, right? So, when we were in Yeshiva, we learned a lot. We left, you know, we slid a little bit. When we got married, the relationship was really good. That's why we married the person. 20 years later, you know, sometimes, you know, things aren't quite what they they were. But we have to remind ourselves that once things were really good. And if they were really good, maybe they can be good again. So, um sometimes we remind ourselves not about what God has brought for us, for us, but what of what we can do. That's really important, too. That's the actual Okay? And that's the starting point for tonight's discussion. I want to focus on the idea that Sukkot are huts. I want to focus on the fact that we remind ourselves of the huts that we built when we were in the desert. And I want to focus on the fact that who says what. Rabbi Akiva, at least according to the Bavli, the Mekhilta says the opposite. But at least according to the Bavli, Rabbi Akiva is the one who tells us that the objective of Sukkot is to recall our homes, the homes we built for ourselves. Rabbi Shmuel says the objective of Sukkot I'm sorry, Rabbi Eliezer. Rabbi Eliezer says the objective of Sukkot is to recall the clouds that God has brought for us who gave us. But Rabbi Akiva is actually much more pragmatic. And you should know this is a very important argument. It has a halakhic nafka mina. They will say, "What's the halakha? Halakha is you just sit in the sukkah." I mean, it recalls this, it recalls that. So, there's actually a very famous Bach. You know, there's a great debate about you do a mitzvah with kavana, without kavana doesn't work, does it not work? Mitzvot kavana, mitzvot lo tzerikhin kavana. But even if mitzvot tzerikhin kavana, what does kavana mean? Kavana means that you're doing it because God has brought for you commanding you to do. You're doing it because you want to do a mitzvah, because you want to connect with God's who commanded you. That's all you have to have in mind for. But does anyone recall the by Sukkot? By Sukkot you're supposed to sit in Sukkot. And what does the tell you? Anyone recall that very enigmatic Sukkot? So that all generations should remember so that all generations should remember key Sukkot shaft Israel would see me in Israel. You know what the does with that Sukkot? Very important not a very well known but that really has significance. He says you can have all types of debates about whether God is going to do Sukkot or not. Sukkot for sure needs because the tells you sit in the Sukkot so that you know. So that you know. So by Sukkot is is an absolute. But then the goes a step further. Not only do you have to have for the mitzvah. The says what does the tell you you have to have for? Not just God to remember what happened when we left Egypt. Well what are you supposed to remember? The clouds or the huts? So this argument keep both in mind. Okay, you don't lose anything. But this argument between Akiva as to whether the Sukkot recalls Sukkot mamesh. Whether the Sukkot recall the clouds has repercussions because according to Akiva when you sit in the Sukkot you have to have and not just that you're doing a mitzvah but why you're doing the mitzvah? You're doing the mitzvah to recall what did for us. What did he do for us? He gave us the power to do for ourselves to build our own huts. You have to recall the huts you built for yourself. According to Eliezer you have to recall the but there's a difference. Now of course you can keep both in mind and that would be great. The actually says there are a number of mitzvahs where you actually have to have specific Havana. >> Is there any mention of in and the Ananiah covered? >> In the pasuk? So, that could be the pasuk. So, let's go through the pasuk. You're raising a good point, Elazar. What is the pasuk? L'man yed'u doroseichem ki um um ki b'sukkos hoshivti es B'nei Yisrael b'hotzi'i osam mei'eretz Mitzrayim. So, that your generation should remember that people sat in sukkos when they left Egypt. Well, what are those sukkos? Those sukkos can be the little huts we build. Those sukkos could be the clouds that provided s'chach. That's the argument between Rabbi Eliezer and Rabbi and Rabbi Akiva. >> So, you're saying the Ananiah covered acted as the s'chach? >> Uh they they were like a greater s'chach. We had individual houses. People didn't sleep in the street. Remember, there were husbands and wives and families, men and women. I mean, we couldn't all sleep in out in the open. Um people need some level of privacy, right? People bathe, people people do things privately, right? So, people had their own little huts. They had they had their own little daladalas. Um but in addition to the little daladalas, the pasuk is very explicit in telling you that they also had clouds protecting them. And the argument is, what is the focal point of sukkos? Is it the cloud? Is it the hut? If it's the cloud, it's recalling what Hakadosh Baruch Hu does for us. If it's the hut, it's recalling the great things that we sometimes do. And people forget that. People forget. If God forbid a husband and wife have a disagreement and and something, you know, that shouldn't be said is said, they forget that, you know, 2 minutes ago everything was fine. So, you have to remember the good things, right? Um if a person's going through a bad time in his business, he has to remember that, you know, it worked. I'm going to keep, you know, pedal to the metal to sort of carry it through. You have to remember the good times. That helps you get through the bad times. Right? So, either you recall or or you have to remember what Hakadosh Baruch Hu does for you because that builds emunah. But that's Rabbi Eliezer and Rabbi Akiva's argument. What is the focal point of sukkos? Reminding yourself of your own strengths to sort of build yourself up, reminding you of what Hakadosh Baruch Hu does for you to make you more of a mind man, to make you, you know, more of an but both are important because a person can be, you know, an good person unless he believes in himself and knows that he can do good things. So, you have to remind yourself of both. But that's really just the starting point. What I'd like to segue into, and this is it's a little bit more of emotional but it it it's important. Who says what? What does say? What does say? Remind me again. >> says >> I keep saying what does say you know what does cuz it's a little here arguing with his versus say. Um >> says >> Right. So, says Why is the one that says Is there anything Is there anything subconscious here? Is there anything motivating him? is the home. What do you know about home? >> Very simple. >> Very simple home. He wasn't >> wealthy. >> He didn't start. Eventually, it seems he found great wealth. But if there's one thing that um one thing that is renowned for, he had an extraordinary relationship with his wife. And you really don't you know you don't find statements like this. There are beautiful and I want to go through these cuz they really talk about you know a really a deep emotional relationship where people connected with one another. I mean the I mean the line that that I think that is well known. I actually use that for the right? Right? That is the that he spoke to his students that what I've accomplished what you've accomplished is is because of her, right? That's it's a beautiful statement about you know how a husband recognizes what his wife did for him. And the truth is the story is an extraordinary story. You know, it's difficult to envision, right? I've got kids getting married now, right? I may I got a bunch of kids that are married. You know, you have a shotgun and they date and they this and they that an X number of times and the kiss in the street is all this number of times and the Shiva's rule is this number of times. Bal Shabbat's rule is this number of times, but it's all um Rebbe Akiva and Rachel met, right? They met on their own and clearly she was not meant to met to meet to to um interact with a man like him. She was the daughter of one of the wealthiest men in Jerusalem. Her father is pegged as one of the three wealthiest men in Jerusalem. Rebbe Akiva was a shepherd on their land. They met and a relationship developed and and and they married like well, against her parents' wishes. And they lived in abject poverty. And there are these beautiful Gemaras that throughout it all he was there for her and she was there for him. And go through the Gemaras. The Gemaras tell you Gemaras and Midrashim that they were so poor that they would sleep in a barn and in the morning he would pull the straw out of her here and he would tell her, "Well, one day it's going to be better and one day I'll buy you a golden crown." And they were so poor that they really had nothing and one day Hakadosh Baruchu sent them a messenger where a woman didn't even have straw for her baby to sort of create a crib and Rebbe Akiva told her Rachel, "Well, at least we have straw." And and it's really a beautiful story of a woman being most nervous for her husband, letting him leave for many many years to learn and then building him up. He he really had been nothing. He had been illiterate, right? Hazal in a number of places paint him as man who was absolutely illiterate. And he goes to Yeshiva at an advanced age and she builds him up. You have these beautiful stories, but then you have more Gemaras where again and again Rebbe Akiva talks about a husband's responsibility to his wife. And it's very important to know different people You you you don't need to be very Freudian. The reality is when people talk about something, that's where their heart is, right? So, if a person is always making bad jokes about a mother-in-law, it means it's not a good relationship. That's what he's really telling you. If a person's always making bad jokes about about marriage, it means the marriage is not so good. Otherwise, you wouldn't make these jokes, right? You know, the heart comes out when people speak. Um Rebbe Akiva always always um said wonderful things about women and about marriage and about a husband's responsibility to his wife. Throughout Chazal, you won't find a story like this where a woman was so devoted to her husband and her husband reciprocated so much. And I want to see these Gemaras together, and then I want to go back to Rebbe Akiva. But look at these Gemaras. These are Gemaras you know. So, some of them talk about um you know, what a good life is. How do you define a good life? How do you define a good life? What is a good life? Wealth, fame, health, um family. What is it? Um um learning, sipa kanefesh, good davening, chevre, just believing in yourself, being comfortable with yourself. What is a good life? So, um um what is Rebbe So, there's a whole range, okay? Um it wealth doesn't really get you very far, okay? So, what does the Gemara tell? Turn to Rabban 6. Rebbe Meir says, if if you come to terms with what you have, and the truth is, if a person is yeshli me'ah, writes him a sign. A person will never be satisfied if >> That's his motivation. That's his motivation as well. >> What? Um same idea. Same basic idea. So, coming to you know, coming to terms with your lot in life. And I don't think it's just wealth. It means just lot in life. Where you are socially, where you are health. This is what I have. This is what I'm gaining. But what does Rebbe Akiva say? Okay? Okay? Um some of them is Rebbe Look at the end. Rebbe Akiva at the end. Someone has a bathroom close to his home. We just remember how lucky we are to live in the time that we live. >> I love it. >> Right, let's not focus on What does Rabbi Akiva say? Rabbi Akiva's order talks about the marriage. Others talk about, you know, seeking and having finding meaning, health, hygiene, you know, just the basic standard of living. He says if, you know, if a person has a good marriage, he's married to a good woman, that's everything. That really defines life. And I will tell you, it's not the only statement from Rabbi Akiva's throughout throughout Rabbi Akiva talk about how a person has to be much have the yes and good fight about a husband's responsibility to his wife. And it's because he understood what a woman can do for a man because Rachel had really been there for him. Look at the story. Look at the The you you've come across because I mean it's it's just it's the Look, seven. Rabbi Akiva. She became engaged to him and clearly against her father's wishes, right? Seven at the bottom. Shimon bar He heard that his his daughter was engaged to an illiterate shepherd who had worked for him. He wasn't interested in this for his daughter. He cut her off. He cut her off. He disinherited her. Oddly is doesn't make a difference. She married him nonetheless. So, it's really interesting. Kiddushin is the first step. So, she committed. I guess it's sort of like engagement. Kiddushin is more than an engagement. Translating as engagement is incorrect. But kiddushin means you're not living together as husband and wife. It means there's a commitment. Doesn't make a difference. She was committed to him. She married him anyway. Okay. And and then the Gamara talks about the the like in modern Israel, stuff is really full. That meant the winter when the rainy season. How are they going to be They slept in a barn on on straw. And this was this was a woman of wealth who was used to luxury. How would he He would pull the straw out of her hair. I'm going to say I have I would give you I would give you a golden crown. And eventually tells us that he did buy his wife a golden crown. And it's interesting. The wives of the other tell me to come said well, we also want that. And they And these rabbis told their wives, well, you didn't do what she did, so you don't deserve it. Okay. As you lay out, and then the Gamora goes and tells us that um I guess they were in such a high level that um Elio came in to carry a burden. Um Elio came I'm going to say I have a little burden to carry now. The oldest because I um there's a little baby who needs straw just sort of make them feel good someone poorer than them. Okay. Um Um and and Rabbi Akiva used this to comfort her, okay? Um let's continue. Now, they're absolutely Really, they're a They're absolutely destitute. But still she said, I believe in you. I want you to become more. I want you to learn. And this of course the famous Gamora which he sent them away for many years to learn. Khazik out, where are we? The end of the um seven, middle of last line. I'm going to lay out heavily be rough. Also, he went go learn. He went um many years I mean the Gamora starts about how many years, but many years he learned. Um she lived in abject poverty. And then finally came back and there's a whole crowd greeting him. And she's at the edge somewhere. And and people don't want to let her get through because he's a great Rabbi Akiva and she's some beggar woman. Until finally he makes the announcement of course she'll leave her and show her what's mine and and yours all goes back to her. Okay. >> Where were her parents all >> So the beautiful story is >> They have a baby alone in the baby starved to death out of straw. >> I It got >> freezing >> It's a good question. >> Family fights get very bad, right? Never be part of a family fight because they just go from bad to worse. Um people Um So in the end they reconciled. In the end um he comes back and Kabbalistic will hear about the great person he became and he said, really I I I made a mistake. And he and and everything is good. Um but there was there were years of >> the time that the baby was starving? >> Yeah, but people but people sometimes, you know, if the shidduch is not possible, people will do all types of interesting things. What? >> You can't exactly blame college rules. >> Right. Right. Well, >> It's a It's a grand trial. >> Yeah. >> is married to a farmer. He's the richest person in Shiloh, I mean. >> Right. Right. And right. So, it it matters which world. In a very structured world, in the less structured world, it's her life. Right. Right. In the end, it works it works out well. In the end, it works out well. There's peace, but there's a lot of suffering along the way. And and the And the Gamorah continue with this, okay? Um Okay. Um Let's go to the bottom, okay? Ben Azai Okay. Halakha This is These are Gamorahs that you know. He began learning at 40 and eventually became the great person he became. Now, let's let's But let's see where this goes, okay? Now, he didn't just achieve success in learning. It seemed he achieved material success also. Ben Azai So, he learned for 13 years. Again, there are different about how many years he was away. That's a very difficult story for us to away from his wife for so long. Um eventually there was material success also. And then, of course, Mhm? >> Did she have contact with him like he sent her money? >> So, it's it's a little >> She knew he was coming. She sent him money. >> So, it's a difficult This is where sometimes it's hard for me to read these stories literally because the simple reading of the Gamorah that we saw before in the Daram is that she was in absolute poverty. He was away for many years. He comes back and she sends him away. It's a very difficult story to read literally. >> She didn't send her a check. He just sent her >> Right. It's a very >> Her husband has a responsibility to support her as well. >> Right. Right. So, again >> Rabbi Akiva you're talking about. >> Right. >> He came back and she was still sleeping in the straw. >> Right. So, that's why I I for one, I mean, it's your first time here. I'm not such a literalist about these Gemaras because it doesn't really reflect well on Rabbi Akiva. I mean, you have a responsibility to your wife and your child. So, um it might just mean it might just be a metaphor for a serious never. One way to literally, I think that's how it's taught. But it it it it's a little bit difficult to see the great Rabbi Akiva doing this who's so sensitive to his wife. Where am I going here? Um let's go back to original discussion. What does Rabbi Akiva say? >> Actual Sukkah. >> And what is he really saying? He's saying, of course of course you have to appreciate the good things that Hakadosh Baruch Hu does for you. But you can't be so focused on the clouds that you're not living down in this world also. Why does Rabbi Akiva say Sukkah's Mamesh? Rabbi Akiva had the most extraordinary relationships and the most extraordinary of homes. And so, Rabbi Akiva, who lived in a world of such beautiful marital bliss, who understood how beautiful a home is, uh says Sukkah's isn't just about focusing on Hakadosh Baruch Hu. Focus on your home. That's part of the message. Sukkah's about making your home a special home. You can walk away from Yitziat Mitzrayim with two messages. One message can be a message about what Hakadosh Baruch Hu does for us. For sure, we have to remember that. One message can be a message about the type of home that we can build. And that's another message. Rabbi Akiva says, Sukkah's make that your message. And the truth is it makes a lot of sense. Look at the order of the Yom Tayvim. You have Pesach, Yitziat Mitzrayim, Hakadosh Baruch Hu took us out of Mitzrayim. Then we have Kabbalat Torah. But what do we do with that? We have freedom, we have Torah, but what do we do with all of that freedom, that Torah? We go ahead and we create good homes and we create good societies. Rabbi Akiva is the one who says Sukkah's Mamesh because Rabbi Akiva is the one who really had a beautiful sukkah. Maybe. Maybe it's an idea. >> He was also the I don't know if you want to call him the author, but the oral Torah comes from him. >> Right. Again. >> No, but my point is that the oral Torah stands on Rebbe Akiva. Without Rebbe Akiva, you can't have the oral Torah. >> So, I could >> His point was >> I think that's a great connection. >> why >> I think it is a great I I think there is a I think he's making an amazing connection. I think if a person builds a good relationship with his wife, but a really solid, deep, loving relationship with his wife, he learns how to love other people and connect with other people. And and that, you know, once once you do that in the house, it's easier to do that with other people. Now, again, they're separate re >> That's exactly my question on the possuk. Am I right that there is a hint to the sukkos and shabbos? Also, Hashem is telling you, this is a good story of Rebbe Akiva, beautiful metaphor. >> It could be drush. I don't know that it's still Right. Right. And I I prefaced today by saying today's drush because I think it's an important message. But you do >> The signs said >> What? >> The signs said that Why it said it. >> Right. So, every once in a while, it's regular drush. Um sometimes it's academic, but it's yontif, and every once in a while, we need regular drush. I think that there's a powerful message here, though. I don't know if it's the true reason Rebbe Akiva and um Rebbe Eliezer are arguing. But you could You know, Rebbe Eliezer ben Hurkanus was famous for saying um Drush is Drush is not telling you what the possuk means. Of course not. But good drush is is that you're hanging your idea on the possuk, and you're not violating the integrity of the text. So, Rebbe Akiva says, sukkas mamash. Rebbe Eliezer says, ananei hakavod. That is the focal point of what you're supposed to recall. I'm using that as an excuse to segue into something that I need to tell myself, and that I think we all need to hear. That of course So have to focus on what Hashem does for us in not relation to the other part of But we have to focus on the people around us. And and the most important people around us are the people that are inside our home. To sort of value that. And um and and that's where where all of us I speak for myself make the most mistakes. Because because that's you know that's where people are likely to make mistakes the way we said at home. And so Rabbi Akiva travel throughout Chazal Machabei Yismekhu Fui Isha Na'ava Me'aseh. Again and again and again um you have these stories and there are many others of Rabbi Akiva really um um appreciating a woman and extending himself for perhaps because you know Rachel began by giving so much of herself and Rabbi Akiva reciprocated. >> It's an interesting point to just all this come together. It's really the primary advice and you learn this one said this this one said that. And if you dig in and you look review their life, you can always find a connection to what was going on during their time. And you see the connection right there. >> I agree absolutely. Abs >> very well, right? >> And you will see it's um people what people say are formed by their historic period, their economic reality, their home relationship, their relationship with their wife. Sometimes it'll come through and you will see see the Gemara it's very different. You know the contemporary publications um um >> Shalom. >> What why not? You know we finished the shiur, right? Yeah. >> Good point. >> Right and right. So I I think the community is actually more relaxed about it now. I think I mean cuz they lost the battle. The don't work. Um the just increase sales. I think the community is is a little bit more relaxed about it. It's bigger. But the Gemara's it and if Rabbi Akiva has chosen really to be the paradigm of good marriage, he was probably the one who had the most ideal of marriages. And it >> Rabbi Eliezer Rabbi Eliezer Rabbi Eliezer was saying basically that yes, the ultimate thing is the clouds Hashem to serve Hashem. But before you can serve Hashem, you have to remember that you're an ordinary person and you have to have respect for your peers. So Rabbi Akiva is basically saying yes, it's of course it's the idea, but we are human and it took us moments because that's the that's the ladder. You have to There's a way to climb up. You can't jump to the top. >> Right. >> Anything >> to the clouds. You got to first remember you're human first. >> They think that should be the focal point that should be the avoid of Sukkot. The avoid of Sukkot is to um to focus on family and to start with the wife or spouse. >> I think this goes back to what I'm I'm I'm your theory like you're saying they had huts. I think that's exactly what they're saying. Built in houses. >> Right. >> Could mean a home but a house that >> Right. Right. Right. Right. >> It's not a physical. It's a >> But the focal point is the human. The focal point is the human rather than the divine. According to Rabbi Eleazar, the focal point is the divine. According to Rabbi Akiva, the focal point is the human. And again, a human is all relationships, but with Rabbi Akiva, there's a special place that a wife has. And that's something that emerges from those Gemaras and that I think goes back to our point here. >> Who's asking about the story on the clouds? That the huts were the clouds were each individual each individual Sukkot had a had had cloud material around >> know that. I don't know that I would assume that. I don't know that I would assume that. No, I mean there's It says there was one host and there was a cloud that led them. And then in the world of Midrash >> each individual house had like >> I don't In the world of Midrash, there's a cloud below that flattened the land, but even that's Midrash. Right. But but even that is Midrash. That's not explicit. Right. Okay. >> Basically in >> in in a nutshell, one word. Well, two words kind of. Shown bias. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's a it's a It's not always so simple. Yes, and before you go >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> see you Tuesday morning.