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A World with Rebbe and a World without Rebbe
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I want to talk about something that
we've spoken about in the past. The
inbase medrish play hidish and it's
double the eating matter if and that is
the Kessef Mishnah right here. It's on
Halacha Aleph asks a very very famous
kasha and that is if the Rambam says
that a base in the paskins a Halacha
simply because they think that's the
Halacha. They don't listen to with God
is a problem.
Then if a later base and wants to come
and say that listen to God is motor they
have every right in the world to do so.
Even if they have no shy in terms of
Halacha and minion to the previous base.
Take the Kessef Mishnah that's the case
I don't understand Talmud Bavli 101. I
have a kasha on the whole shas. You
don't get that every day. I [laughter]
have a kasha on what? On on shas. Which
the whole shas from the Amora until the
end. I have a kasha on every single
Gemara in shas. Why? Because what
underpins Talmud Bavli? They have Tanaim
and Amoraim. And everyone knows that an
Amora can't argue with a Tanna, right?
And an Amora can't argue with a Tanna.
There's 9 million Gemaras that scream
that. Take the Kessef Mishnah why not? I
always assume because you're allowed to
live by the Halacha but if the Rambam
says in category one that if it's based
on din it's based on I have shas says
and the old shas says we can argue all
day every day. And again you have to
kiss my
and you didn't see kid Daniel but
well if that's the case so why can't an
Amora why can't an Amora argue with
Rabbi Akiva? What's pashut shas? What's
pashut They want to tell me that Halacha
Rabbi Akiva is the same then Halacha no
problem with that. But he can't argue to
the Gemara always says. What's going on
over here? What's pashut shas? I take
the Kessef Mishnah. So the Kessef Kessef
Mishnah says a double in the floor. He
says quote the Amora Shemayah says
that from the day that the Mishnah was
sealed off came the kibble because I
want to make kind of a kibble Shemayah
says so I have to name what you have to
look at what you say. That the later
generations will not be like on the
Amora. The same also came the Amora says
I tell them they did it a second time
the Amora says I tell them Shemayah says
next time you do this Amora I will
always says the Kessef Mishnah that the
truth is there's no reason that an Amora
shouldn't be able to argue with a Tanna
and that would undermine the whole shas.
Standing that came the kibble Shemayah
says I have to name what you have to
look at what you say. And when did that
happen? That happened from the time of
the Amora says I tell them the Indian
Indian Amora says I tell them
in Koidich Amora says I tell them it's
always tough for the Islamic Amora he
brings that he once asked the Amora says
I tell them his Amora a kasha similar to
the Kessef Mishnah kasha. I am sure.
Just the quip from the Amora the Amora
says I tell them the Amora says I tell
them the Amora says I tell them the
Amora says I tell them the Amora says I
tell them the Amora says I tell them
the Amora says I tell them they didn't
bring this Amora but of course it's
coming from this Amora. If an Amora
wants to argue with a Tanna Amora has a
right to argue with a Tanna. The Amora
says I tell them the Amora says I tell
them the Amora says So said the Amora
says I tell them this is so classic
Amora how come throughout shas you find
the Amora that are asking
or asking an Amora from Tanna whom
the Amora says I tell them
it's not because he doesn't have the
license he has the license I have the
credentials 100% but he wouldn't do it.
And we assume that the Amora says I tell
them the Amora says I tell them the
Amora says I tell them
he wouldn't have been Amora says I tell
them said the Amora says I tell them
but if an [snorts] Amora argues with a
Tanna
it can't be Amora says I tell them. And
by the way Amora says I tell them
I can't this is Amora says I tell them
the Amora says I tell them throughout
shas is always a Amora argues with a
Tanna is like it's not that he doesn't
have the right he has the right to but
he wouldn't do it. And the reason why I
asked because to the extent that
Amora said something that we have a
price not that way so for sure he would
have been and that's why it's a
not because of credentials. It's all
different than the Kessef Mishnah.
Kessef Mishnah says came the kibble
Amora says I tell them that the Amora
would never argue with a Tanna. Amora
says I tell them said about that that's
what they could it's just they wouldn't.
Similar but the bottom line is the
bottom line is there was some sort of
came with a kibble that happened the
Amora says I tell them
the Mishnah that once the Mishnah got
sealed off at that point they said Amora
not going to argue with Tanna anymore.
So I just want to be Amora says I tell
them again this is really that we've
spoken about in the past many times over
the inbase medrish play hidish just with
a little bit of an introduction and that
is
the Mishnah in the end of Mishnah
says
the Mishnah Rabbi when Rabbi left the
world bottle on over
the year I say the Gemara
the second to last line of Mishnah Amora
says I tell them says Mishnah Rabbi
Amora passed away Amora says I tell them
I think it's very what does it mean
Amora says I tell them right the word
Amora says I tell them sounds like the
Amora says I tell them right the Amora
says I tell them all of a sudden what
does it mean they doubled Amora says I
tell them Amora says they were more
after Amora left the world right we know
Amora had a very close relationship with
Antoninus you know Gemaras on
Amora says I tell them
you remember Antoninus gives Amora all
this money and Amora says don't worry
about I don't need this money. He says
yeah but I know future generations we're
not going to get along you know the way
we get along right now and as a result
keep this money it's like this when they
tax you you'll have money to pay from.
He already foresaw how this was going to
play itself out and that's what's being
said here in this Gemara. Amora says I
tell them
but the question is what does it mean
Amora says I tell them literally it
means Amora says I tell them it sounds
like the Amora says I tell them. What
does it mean that the Amora says I tell
them? So we won't say and by the way we
said this in Halacha we discussed to say
this in the shach shul in Halacha when
we went together as a Amora. That could
be Amora says that we know the Gemara
says in the
Amora says I tell them
we know this together also not so long
ago. Amora says I tell them Amora says I
tell them
the world was created for 6000 years.
Amora says I tell them the first 2000
years the world was
Amora says I tell them the second set of
2000 years there was
and Amora says I tell them
and the last 2000 years Amora says I
tell them. So 2000 years of Amora and
then the next 2000 years is and the last
2000 years is Amora says I tell them.
Rashi says that although it sounds a
little bit from the Gemara like the last
2000 years are not going to have
right 2000 years of and then the last
2000 years Amora says I tell them
once came about there was always going
to be until the end of 6000. So what
does it mean the last 2000 years is
Amora says I tell them Amora says I tell
them
but in addition to it being
it's also going to be Amora says I tell
them but the Amora in
Amora says I tell them Amora says I tell
them says it's not Amora says I tell
them Amora says I tell them
Amora says I tell them Amora says I tell
them says the Amora I'll read it inside.
Amora says I tell them
Amora says I tell them Amora says I tell
them Amora says I tell them
once Amora went into when the Amora was
destroyed they lost their
Amora says I tell them
Amora says I tell them said the Amora
Amora says I tell them
but for the next 172 years after the
Amora says I tell them
it was still considered Amora says I
tell them Amora says I tell them
because there were Amora that were
living. Amora says I tell them
and the Amora says I tell them had not
become
Amora says I tell them
until Amora left the world the Amora
says I tell them and then the Amora
became very intense. The Amora says I
tell them and there were terrible
Amora says I tell them
and now already they didn't have as much
of so says the Amora I hold that when
the Gemara says from 2000 to 4000 is
that's what it means. Amora says I tell
them and after that there's already no
Amora Amora says I tell them but
qualitatively it's so much less like the
Amora says Amora says I tell them
that when the Amora was destroyed and
Amora went to we lost the
I want to say if that's the case so it
doesn't add up. 4000 is not
says the Amora it's true Amora says I
tell them happened how many years before
the year 4000? That's also
Amora says I tell them
Amora says I tell them right 172 years
earlier but for that next 172 years up
until the year 4000 there were Amora
and because there were Amora there were
so there were
Amora says I tell them
Amora says I tell them Amora says I tell
them and that's why at the year 4000 we
could say Amora says I tell them. How
could you say it? Amora says I tell them
Amora says I tell them already said
this. He prophesied that this is the way
it was going to be. That when the year
they were going to be at the height of
Amora which is where we are right now
even though there would be so much
but on some level qualitatively speaking
it would be a matter
of Amora says I tell them.
We always speak out from the Amora they
say in Amora says I tell them Amora says
I tell them Amora says I tell them the
Amora says I tell them
said the Amora says I tell them
Amora says I tell them Amora says I tell
them
Amora says I tell them
and we'll have the Amora what's that to
do with
so the Amora said that we know the world
stands on three Amora. Amora says I tell
them Amora says
Amora says I tell them Amora Amora
and Amora says I tell them when the
Amora was destroyed said the Amora we
lost the Amora
but really we lost the second Amora as
well. We also lost the Amora
because Amora says I tell them
and really today we're standing on one
leg and that's the leg of
when are we going to get
Amora says I tell them
then we're going to get not only the
Amora we're going to get two Amora back.
We're going to get back the Amora
and we're also going to get back the
Amora. But this is the Amora that the
year 4000 is the of Amora because when
Amora passed away that's when it was
Amora Amora says I tell them and that's
the Gemara. 2000 years of
from 2000 to 4000 is
and from 4000 till the end is Amora says
I tell them. Inbase medrish play hidish
I found
that Amora
in his Amora says I tell them on Amora
says I tell them Amora says I tell them
on that Gemara Amora says I tell them
again it's a Gemara in Amora says I tell
them that's what we quoted it's
identical Gemara in Amora says I tell
them. So he brings that he found a
from
from one of the Amora. So Amora says I
tell them in addition to knowing all the
swarm called Rashi honestly, he also had
some form of photographic memory without
question. He knew an incredible amount
of Kisfeya. See, he said, "I came across
a Keta of Xaviad from the Goanim. It
said as follows, 'May Adam the Adam
Avram
Nun base shana miyam of tayo. From the
beginning of Brius Olam until Avram
Avinu turned 52 years old, the world was
tayo.
Right? That's essentially Tana D'vei
Eliyahu. Because how
old was Avram Avinu by the year 2000?
Avram Avinu was born 1948 l'misparainu,
which means he's 52 years old at that
point. U'minun base shana, says this
Xaviad from the Goanim, "Mi'chayei Avram
v'ad Rabbeinu Hakadosh tayo."
From Nun base shana mi'chayei Avram
until Rabbeinu Hakadosh, it's tayo. Rav
Gabor here of Rav Gabor says that the
Kvod Rav Shas is that we learn the
Gemara together on Daf Yud Daled Amud
Bais Gemara Maseches Avodah Zarah that
Avram Avinu was Daled May of Pirkei.
Right? V'anan chamisha tanayim. Avram
Avinu seems to be the first one to write
Mishna. Rav Yehudah Hanasi is the last
one to write Mishna. Tayo is that cool
form when we had the Mishnayos thriving.
And that starts from Avram Avinu, it
ends with Rav Yehudah. That's classic
Rav Meir Gavriel. But either way, it's a
mefurasho Xaviad from one of the Goanim.
Not 2000 to 4000. It's from when Avram
Avinu was Nun base shana
until the ptira of Rebbi. But the bottom
line is, when Rav Yehudah Hanasi, Rav
Yehudah Hanasi left the world, what
happened? What happened at that point
was it was Rob Avodah Zarah. It was an
Eskara Galus. It was Kol Yisrael me'tah
b'sara. But if you want to understand it
on a more fundamental level, what
happened when Rav Yehudah Hanasi left
the world? We went from not only having
lost the Amud Avodah, which is something
that we lost when the Bais Hamikdash was
destroyed, but now we have to be moser
something in our davening. Sheyibaneh
Bais Hamikdash bimheira b'yameinu
v'seinchalkenu b'sechel. Now we lost
Amud of Torah as well, because now it's
Malkus Yisrael b'goiyem Torah. Mishameis
Rebbi chuch b'lu atzaros always daika.
The tzaros doubled. What do you mean
doubled? It's a funny lashon. How do you
not a zero in and put a number to the
tzaros? The Torah says we lost an extra
Amud. We went from having lost one, now
we lost two. That's called Tashlumei
Keifel. It's double. Oh, we lost double.
That's maybe pshat in Mishameis Rebbi
chuch b'lu atzaros. But the bottom line
is, and we speak about this all the
time. You know, the Gemara in Maseches
Shabbos Daf Kuf Gimel, Daf Kuf Daled, it
talks about Shas ptiras Rebbi. We
mentioned it not long ago on Daf Kuf
Hey. We talked about it how that was one
of the times that the sun stopped.
Right? The Yerushalmi has different
sources, but this was a huge deal, the
Shas ptiras Rebbi. I think this Marsha
brings out a better appreciation for why
that was so significant. It goes down as
a day that shall remain in infamy. I
hear Rebbi passed away, why not the day
Rav Akiva passed away? Why not the days
that Abaye and Rava passed away? Right,
it's hard to hear why Rebbi more than
anybody else. The Torah says because
Mishameis Rebbi, that's when we kicked
into a gear of Galus where it's ain
Torah. Chuch b'lu atzaros, gover a
Galus, but more significantly ain Torah.
We went from being in a world mid Torah
tzavelt on Torah. Right? Avvelt mid
Torah tzavelt on Torah. Right? Avvelt
mid Torah tzavelt on Torah. That's the
gear that the world kicked into. It
brings such a chiddush what's going on
over here. But al kol panim, let's come
full circle. Rav Tzadok Hakohen asks a
kasha Mishna B'vakasha. And Rav Chaim
Brisker asks a very similar kasha. The
answer of the Rambam in Perek Bais
Halacha Alef in Hilchos Mamrim. This is
category one. That if a later Beis Din
wants to argue with an earlier Beis Din
based on a halacha that they came out
with based on a din, you have every
right to do it. You could be cholek on
Tam V'lo Cholek. Because Yiftach b'doro
k'Shmuel b'doro. Rav Yehudah Hanasi
b'doro is k'Daniel b'doro. So, why can't
an Amora argue with a Tana? So, the
Kasha Mishna said he could. He could.
Rav Chaim Brisker also said that. He
said he could. Rav Chaim Brisker said he
We just know he doesn't want to. So,
it's not something he would do. Kasha
Mishna said a little shot for Kimu
v'Kiblu. That miyom chsimas haMishna no
Amora would ever argue with a Tana. What
happened miyom chsimas haMishna? Churban
Bais Hamikdash. Why was that the point?
The Torah says pashut. Because miyom
chsimas haMishna, we went from being in
Avvelt mid Torah tzavelt on Torah. Now
all of a sudden the world just became
Malkus Yisrael b'goiyem Torah. So, who's
going to have the places to say that I,
who I breathe the air, I'm living in a
world where it's ain Torah, I could be
cholek on Yidden and tzaddikim that
lived in Avvelt mid Torah? So, as much
as it's true Yiftach b'doro k'Shmuel
b'doro, but at the same time there's an
idea of Kimu v'Kiblu. Now, could there
be exceptions to the rule? Rav Chanina
bar Rav. Some say that all the talmidim
of Rebbi could be talmidim of Rav, which
would make sense because they were
mekabel from Rebbi. They were mekabel
from the Avvelt mid Torah. But the point
is, when you appreciate, when you
appreciate what it means
ptiras Rebbi, I think this Kasha Mishna
has a tremendous, tremendous lichtikait.
That's what's going on over here. It's
because they understood that this was
the end. They understood that now they
had come to a point where they had come
to a point where it was ain Torah. You
know, one of the Mekoros we always speak
at is the Chasam Sofer. Where the Gemara
says that Rebbi tells the Chevra, he
tells them, "Don't be maspid me more
than 30 days." More than
Hamelech. It shouldn't be more than
Moshe Rabbeinu. So, what was the hava
mina that they be maspid Rebbi more than
Moshe Rabbeinu? Someone had a hava mina
that Rebbi was greater than Moshe
Rabbeinu? The Torah says that the Chasam
Sofer said that the gaver Rebbi was not
greater than the gaver Moshe Rabbeinu.
But there was another aveilus that was
going on over here. There was an aveilus
of the matziv. The world completely
changed. And so could I come in and
that's why there should be a ribui of
aveilus. K'ma sh'Moshe Rabbeinu said
Rebbi l'maiseh, when Moshe Rabbeinu left
the world, they were only maspid him a
certain shiur. Don't be maspid me more
than that. But the world changed
completely. Avvelt mid Rebbi and Avvelt
on Rebbi is Avvelt mid Torah and Avvelt
on Torah. That's why Kimu v'Kiblu
Hayehudim. They were mekabel afterwards
that even though we technically based on
the Rambam and Chasam Sofer, which has a
makor in Amalek, Shmuel, Rav Ashi, Rav
Nachman, D'D, U'natzel Gemara Donav
Avodah Zarah Perek Bais, an Amora should
be able to argue with a Tana. But it's
not something that we're going to do
because we appreciate what a yerida,
what a yerida it was because of the
ptira of Rebbi. Sheyibaneh Bais
Hamikdash bimheira b'yameinu
v'seinchalkenu b'sechel.