A Teenager in the Holocaust - A Story of Survival

I start by sharing an idea I heard in uh paras Noah 1977. Yeah. Wonderful. I was in the entire yeshiva came from forest hills. The rasha always wanted to come to he felt he couldn't because of his obligations in America. But he he loved it and from time to time he would pick up the entire yeshiva and move. So this was shortly after the building was built in San Hedra MV and he brought the whole yeshiva and the married couples had to all find apartments. Everybody had to scramble but he brought the whole yeshiva for a year and it was a balagan because uh it was a yeshiva that was used to catering to 25 students and now it has 200 people. So a number of the tamid got together and started avad [snorts] and uh and the rashiva asked they asked rasha to speak at the first meeting of the vad. Well everybody who showed up didn't really care that much about they just wanted to hear the rasha speak and it was very crowded in the room. It was really meant for the but he he quoted a medish and that is as we know at the end of the marble Noah comes out and he plants a vineyard and we know that that story ends very poorly. Yeah. And the medish says is a medish rabba that as soon as he got ready to plant the vineyard, the satan was the first one who volunteered to help because he said anytime you want to start an undertaking the first person who wants to join is the satan be able to uh undermine things from the inside. uh I remember that idea that he said and I heard somebody else tell a story from another major yeshiva I want to mention it but uh he said that he also started and the rasha spoke to him after a week and he says how's it going he goes great everybody's signing up everybody's taking on tough kedim it looks great everything's looking terrific and the rasha looked a little upset and I couldn't understand why so I see him about 3 months later. He says, "No, how's it going?" I said, "Terrible. Nobody's keeping their word. Nobody's doing what they're supposed to be doing. Everybody's giving me a hard time. Everybody's fighting over this. I'm just going to close the whole thing down." The Rash said, "Bashem." And he goes, "What?" He says, "When you told me at the beginning that everything was going great, I got a little suspicious cuz where's the Satan? Where's the atahara? He's the first one who gets involved in every organization. And if he's not trying to stop you, then it must be that you're the Sultan. It must be that you're the and I was going to tell my son to drop out and now that I see you're having trouble, I know you're doing something good and I give you and he gave me and I kept going even though it was much more difficult. I'm living in Harno 37 years and uh over those 37 years there have been a large percentage of uh dove angle who live in Har yeah and maybe less today a lot of them ran away to be b she where there is a small percentage of Hebrewspeaking Israelis but in high still a large percentage And many people have felt that I don't really have a muk especially because the model of a kahila that we have in America and in England they don't have here because uh as somebody said to me many times in uh you join a community here you look for a place to davin and if this one's closer or this one's faster or this one's this I'll go over there but not because I feel a commitment you know maybe I like tables maybe I like chairs whatever the you know extenders whatever it is but but uh but but there's not a sense of community as somebody said to me if you know all the if you know the names of all the people in your building you must be the viot you know what I mean because uh that's it I had a neighbor once said to me he goes I I'm afraid that I'm going to die in my apartment and I will be left there until someone finally notices they haven't seen me for a while and figure they can buy it at a discount. You know what I mean? But uh but it's a very big place and uh so Ianim I decided I'm going to try to start something and I started to make a little cahila which at this point has the very very clever name of the Rabbi Alvski Shaw. I think we need to change that personally. Um because you know even sharpens isn't called sharpmans. It has a real name. You know what I mean? And same thing with centers. You know all these places have real names. They just call it by that. So you know I have at least a real name. But and we got started and I found that we have filled a need in the community. So uh we have um I would say somewhere between 30 and 40 families who dive in by us you know on a on a fairly regular basis. So we decided to try to expand this the community and sleos night we made a special event. We had about a hundred people and it was uh it was really a very special event. We had a special minion for a shaam kipper and we had close to 200 people come and davin with us and I spoke late Kellerman who davins in the shul spoke you know and the drushes were in English and the dining was user friendly and I think everybody the feedback we got was everyone had a a wonderful time and so we had a simp with close to 100 people and hashem you know so I have to say that yakov mayor is really the moving force of this where he believes [applause] that what we're doing is something that serves a greater need and we're limited by space. If uh we had a we had a a real location, we could do more, but in the meantime, we're we're working around with what we could do. So, one of the that we have in our little tiny viny in a little tiny place in the of the Rabbi uh you know estate Yeah. is uh that uh Mr. Stark has chosen to come and d with us when he comes and uh for me this is a tremendous cover because he is an adm I only knew that he was an adm I didn't know anything else about him and one time when he was there so his son said maybe ask my father to say a little something about sukus and I said sure and he told the story of what happened to him when he was in the concentration camp and actually a work camp yeah by uh sukus and I was like this is unbelievable. So someone said, you know, he wrote a book, you know, about his experiences. And I read it and it was uh by the way, the money that you gave tonight is going to republish the book. Um and I read it and it was just astounding. And uh he spoke again by us and uh Shabashua and Yakov Maya who's always got his eye out for the community said this is something that everybody should get to participate in. And that is why we have made this event and uh invited the community to be able to hear whatever Mr. Stark chooses to share with us. He is not shy and uh like I said he's an Mash without having gone through what he went through. But considering what he went through, I can only tell you [clears throat] that I I sit down and I think of a 14-year-old what he went through and what he survived and what he went on to do. And I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have made it to the train because I just don't have those kind of kas. And I just listen to these stories and it's the kind of things that make you appreciate how little you've actually accomplished with your life [laughter] which I think is always a wonderful thing. So without any further ado, it is a privilege are are you doing introduction to introduce uh Mr. Israel >> Stark? Okay. Well, I'm not going to speak that much, but okay. >> We can uh you could put it in the place. So, just just so it's ready. But I I will project uh to >> thank you >> and an early to everyone here. I want to thank Rabbi Olowski uh for your gracious words and I would also like to take this opportunity to express my sincere hakaratov to Rabki and his cahila for accommodating my father's place in the minion over the past month. Uh it was very gracious and it was very uh very welcoming and I want to thank you for that personally and publicly. Uh also a special thank you to Yakov mayor for his initiative and his work to arrange this impromptu event and inviting my father Mr. Israel Stark and myself to speak with you today and bringing us all together this evening. Uh this is far Oh, I see I have to be in range. This is far from my father's uh first foray into speaking. Uh uh Blandhur he's been doing this for over 40 years and he's spoken at Jewish schools and and different institutions and and military and government institutions and yeshivas and and uh in Israel. He's spoken in all across the US in different cities and the bottom line is he's gotten around a little bit and he's finally made his way to Harno. I think this marks the first time he's speaking in Harnof even though he's been a a unofficial residence for over 30 years. Uh now I would also like to thank you who are in this room. Everyone who's in this room in attendance today, if you are in this room right now, you have a unique, possibly for some of you once in a-lifetime opportunity to meet and interact with a witness to one of the most significant and horrific eras in human history. You know, often we come together to recall Kurban Europe in times such as the anniversary of Crystal N or or Yoma Shawah or the three weeks. But at the same time and also in light of the past two years where Claw Israel has suffered its own modern-day Horban, there is no wrong time to recall these events and seek inspiration from those who walked it before we have now. Most of the precious Mishimote who defied the odds and rose out of the ashes of Nazi death camps are no longer with us. The number of Jewish men and women who can sit before us today and bear witness to the atrocities perpetrated against mankind is dwindling with each passing year. So with that said, I'm going to encourage each and every one of you in this room to take advantage of this evening and think about the things you'd like to ask. And >> say each passing year. How much each passing month or week? >> Well, yeah, we don't want to think about that, but I'm trying I'm being trying to be generous, give people more time. Um, so, uh, so I would like to, you know, to take advantage and and to think of the lessons you'd like to understand and what you want to walk away with. And that's why we're here this evening. Now, with my father's permission, I'm going to share with you a brief introduction that will give you a timeline of his personal experiences for those who have not read his book, A Boy Named 68818, uh, available at some bookstores and Amazon's copies are dwindling because there will be, God willing, a uh, a second edition publication and God willing, um, you know, around Pesak time or a little bit before after a Hebrew version we're hoping to put out. So, you can >> copies here >> is what? >> No copies here. >> Not today. Halvai. I wish we had more copies on hand to offer you, but uh that that tells you how popular the book is. It's already been sold out. Um so with that said, um after uh after I give you this timeline, the rest of the evening is going to be dedicated to you and having a conversation with uh my father and uh and ask and seriously I will encourage you to ask anything you ever wanted to ask. Now, Serillik Stok, as he was known, Serillik was born to Hershel and Khana Stok and uh in 1929, I'll let you do the math. And he was born in a town called Ptorian, just outside the city of Moonkage, which uh located by the Carpathian region of eastern Czechoslovakia. He was the youngest of three siblings, the older three being girls, and uh one of whom unfortunately passed away uh before the war due to illness. Now, Serillic was an average boy u you know just like you know you might have you know any of your own children nothing different he attended school for Jewish and secular studies and this was also the time before the internet and phone so you know had to make his own his own mischief his own fun so um you know I'll give you an example you know there was one time where you know Serrillic had an exam coming up that he was not prepared for so uh you know I'm not going to tell you that he didn't study for it and I I'm not going to tell you that uh that uh his Rebby had a had a deathly allergic allergy to garlic. And I'm not going to tell you that Shruik took his Reby's switch and he rubbed it with garlic from uh all over. And I'm not going to tell you that when his Rebby came in that morning and picked up the switch and held it in his hand and waved it in the air to the students, he turned red and he went into anaphylactic shock. I'm not going to tell you any of that. Um, but what I will tell you is that as a result of this, Serillic did not take the test and he probably couldn't sit down for two weeks after that happened. So, um, so just to give you an idea of the kind of childhood he had, it was like very precious and very, very loving. And it really wasn't until March of 1944, over 80 years ago, that Sherik's life turned upside down. It was just prior to Pesak that the Nazis, Yamakim, occupied his house and turned one of the rooms into a command center. Now imagine if you will what it might be like to be conducting your pesak seder with German soldiers occupying the next room and maybe replace German soldiers with kamas whoever our modern day alik is and try and comprehend what that might be like and after the sto family were told you have one hour to pack whatever you can and leave your house now they and their friends and their neighbors at this time were transferred to a brick factory that was turned into a makeshift ghetto ghetto in May uh after the Kag all the Jews in the ghetto which numbered about 116,000 people were loaded into cattle cars or of a freight train and told that they were being relocated to work on Hungarian farms. Now imagine this 3-day trip. There was no in-flight service on this train. No food, no water. You know, just imagine the crowd shouldertoshoulder. People couldn't stand. They couldn't sit. There was no toilets. And I'm not going to go into detail what that might be like. And at some point people said to Swirlik, you know, like swirlik like we're going to hoist you up. Look at the above window and and and read out the the stations as the train slows down. So every stop they hoisted him up and he's reading out names like Preszov, you know, Zakopane, Makov, Potalanski. And it became apparent that they weren't really heading to Hungary. They were heading in a different direction altogether. And they soon learned that they were heading to Poland. Six weeks later, oh, I'm sorry. Sure, sure enough, they arrived to Awitz, the infamous concentration camp in Poland. And upon arrival, even before he stepped off the emptied cattle car, was the first of many instances in which Schwick's life was saved. However, however, shortly thereafter, Shrillik and his father were separated from his mother and his two sisters, and this was the last time he saw his mother. Six weeks after that, Shrillik and his father were transferred to Matausen. This would be the second of four concentration camps that Shrillik would encounter and this was a concentration camp in Austria. Now, two things were significant about his stay in Matau. Number one, this is where he received his number 68818. And the second significant thing is that this would be the place where he was separated from his father, never to see him again. In June 1944, Shoulick was transferred to the death camp of here. He spent the bulk of his time and as he became known as the Spitzenger. This the this was the carrier of the pointers. And if you're curious what that means, you'll be able to ask him yourself. In April 1945, the allies were closing in and the prisoners of Mel were moved on a death march and Shrillik arrives to Aen, which would be his the last camp he would experience. On May 4th, 1945, Thrillik and his friends noticed that a lot of the guard towers were empty suddenly for the Germans had started to retreat from Aen. And on May 6th of 1945, liberation from Aen came. The Americans arrived and set up rations and set up a rations kitchen. Disastrous effect. But Serik Sirlik describes that day as the prisoners rushing forward and kissing the steel treads of the US tanks. On May 7th, Germany surrendered. Then the next day was V day and the end to World War II. In August of 1945, Schwillik arrived back to Moonkach. And spoiler alert, he was he was re reunited with his two older sisters who also survived. During this time, while they were still in Europe, Swirlik's sisters married, while Swirlik made repeated attempts to immigrate to pre-state Israel, but without success. In August of 1947, Eleanor Roosevelt sponsored 500 war orphans to immigrate to to the US. And at the age of 17, Sirill boarded the SS Ernie Pile and sailed to America by himself with a police and nothing but $2 to his name. And on his way to America, his very first purchase for 10 cents a bottle of Coca-Cola. So he was already becoming an American. And just imagine for a moment, you know, to uh being an orphan, a refugee, you know, you're by yourself without your parents at a young age and finding yourself on a ship or a plane, crossing the ocean to a country that you have never been to and not knowing a word of the language. Mr. Stark moved to Chicago in 1948. Eventually his sisters managed to immigrate to the US as well and they settled in New York with their respective families. Over his many visits to New York he met Ethel Urman, his wife to be and they married in 1957. By profession, Izzy Stark, as he was now known, became a diamond merchant and the founder and sole proprietor of the iceark company. Fast forward to today, Mr. Stark is a philanthropist and a pillar within the Chicago Jewish community and an author. He is a father to seven, a grandfather to 40, and a great-grandfather to over 60 with more on the way. Bishova. So, as I mentioned before, I will now encourage you to take this opportunity to get to know him a little better. Uh, and again, this is not the time to be shy. You know, again, this is a beautiful setting. And, uh, so when anyone has any question, simply raise your hand and uh, stand up and speak with a loud voice so he can hear you. And uh and and you I want to introduce my father, Mr. Israel Stark. >> Sit sit sits. >> Be careful. Be careful. >> See it. I see it. >> Good. You did a wonderful job. >> Oh, thanks, Dad. >> Yeah. to going into my early life, my background and you probably got most of the information and if you have any questions regarding something which was not clear to you, I'll be very happy to answer it. But before reshide >> okay first of all it's very important for me to say I want to give a that he brought me up to this point. He brought me up here where I had the wonderful human asovski mentioned in his sh and I hope that listen to art phillis in artis kabble and of course it's different to be in your lime than in Chicago but I've been in both places I was dury after duri gave the the brief introduction about my youth I I says first of all I says I would like to also thank Rabar Lovski and Yanko Mayor for organizing this this evening and whoever is here. I would like to thank you all for taking our time and coming to listen to me for a for a little while. I'd like to start to tell you first of all about uh my our arrival into in into Ashwitz. As we arrived into Ash and and the command was given to Ash Tigen by a young prisoner who was in charge of these Hungarian transports that have been arriving day after day, night after night as he was um so everybody of course got off immediately. It was certainly a big relief when they open up those those those freight cars and suddenly the air came in and revived many people. And then the window was Osteigen and as pretty soon there there was the the the line of I believe where they would give us a h the selection the line of selection by a call by the Malikov. I mean and men older men and children and women went to one side and the younger men of who were able-bodied men who were able to work at least the Malikovs decided that they will be able to to work and contribute to the great great needs of the German Reich they sent to a different direction. I of course the minute I had I had a a four as as you probably will hear from or so forth. I had a somebody gave me a tip off that he asked me how old I am and I said years and he says deepest that was while we were still staying on that empty freight car. I of course started to argue with him and it says Engel Frankmanishes here we do not ask any questions [snorts] if I tell you that you're 18 remember now that you're 18 and of course thank goodness I remembered when the selection came I blurted out in a loud voice I'm eight I'm a he told me to follow my father my father to a certain direction as as eventually they lined us up again as lined us up so often in lines of five in each line. And eventually they marched us into a very very big empty place like a big hanger where there were a lot of prisoners standing there with clippers, hair clippers to to to shave off all our hair. And there we had to undress completely naked. And this is where the last I put on the I put on my fill there on top of my clothing for the last time. You only wear the only thing you were allowed to keep is your shoes. And that if you had some good pair of shoes eventually some older president came along and says give me your shoes. So all these things have been happening later on. But you were allowed to keep the shoes and that's about it. No pens, no pencils, no paper, no watches, no calendars, nothing. So consequently, I as a little boy as as he was cutting my hair, I I wanted to ask a few times one of these so-called barbers. I says, "What is going to happen to us? What is going to be our destiny?" He wouldn't talk. Nobody would talk. Finally, finally, one guy came to another one, another one. Finally, one one of the barbers, so-called barbers, says, "Turn around this way." And he turned the other way. He says, "You see this table on in in this all different uniforms, striped uniforms, a pair of pants, and a pair of jacket and a jacket and a mitzah and a and a shirt. That's going to be now your your clothing. And now you're going to get into a certain certain camps and now your fight for survival would start. My friends, I'm going to speak to you tonight. I chose to speak about two incidents that happened during my four concentration camps during the Europe. One incident is I have in my book about the story of a bird and the other one is this is is that going to uh speak to you about my access to fire to fire while I was in milk already in the third concentration camp. The story with the bird is as follows. I they as all the children always ask me Mr. start did you really have a bird and I and I I says not really but somehow I tell him well there's a story to it let me tell you a little bit about the story of the bird when finally we arrived after they marched us into Awitz Burkanau in Awitz I was sitting with my father for days after days I would say probably maybe about a week's time there was very little the silence was deafening we very little discussion between me and my father and very little discussion between other prisoners at the same time. And as I was sitting there and they counted us about five times, six times a day. We had to line up in in rows of five, five, five. And they counted us over and over again. But then they let us to disembark. And I was sitting once with my father and I got very despondent. I got I started crying and he says why are you crying Sulik and I said well there's plenty of reason to cry but also I told him look here I'd like my told my father I'd like to see some life here in this forsaken place this I I smell death all over I would like to see a little a little a little ant crawling out on my on my knee or my shoe I would like to see a worm come out through the soil of the back of of of the bed soil Well, actually, I don't see any other life here. I'd like to see some form of life, whether it's an insect, whether it's anything else. And he says, he says, I I wish I could help you. Suddenly, as I telling him about this, my wishes, I look up and I see a beautiful bird on a branch in Ash on the tree. And I'm looking at that bird. And I'm looking at that bird. And I finally turn to my father and I tell him, you see that bird? I see finally alive something which is alive here. I says that bird is my friend. That bird is always going to be my friend. That bird is always going to be with me wherever I go. That bird is coming with me. And I he and as as I pointed out about that bird, I certainly said that bird is going to be with me. And I said to him, you have created that bird. You have given that bird wings that he can fly. It can fly in and out of this forsaken place. That bird doesn't have to worry about about the the electric wires. That bird doesn't have to worry about a gun facing every minute. I says, "You created that bird and you gave it wings. I'm also your creation. You also created me. Why? I I I I don't have any wings and I don't expect that I'm going to be able to fly out of here. But please take me under your wings. at least give me the protection and promise that you will protect me and you'll help me to survive this ordeal. This is the first time my friends that I've also taken the rail I've taken him into partners with me and I said look here I'm not the bird I don't have wings but I'm also your creation just like that bird is so consequently I says you you gave all this the protection you're giving this protection to your bird I'm also your creation give me also your protection help me to survive and this is my friends the first time that I've taken in partnership And I had established the muna that and I will tell you something. There were about four times where my life almost ended in in the four camps as a second from from ending. Four times and each time somehow by in this flu I managed to be saved. I how I managed to be saved is of course I I have written about it and I told people about it how I managed to be saved but I was saved how I don't understand I don't understand it at Hayom how this in the last minute when most people wouldn't survive I survived but the minute it happened every time it happened it happened four times to me and each time I thought ah you maybe maybe maybe you hurt me maybe you are giving me the protection that I asked that you should give me at least whatever that creature had that bird so give me that protection and every time this influence happened yeah I felt more encouraged maybe just maybe I'm going to survive maybe I'm be able to go and live through this ordeal every day that we faced and we faced every day terrible ordeal and of all the all the ordeal that we faced. The worst one was of course hunger. I cannot tell you what hunger is. Rent to sleep every night hungry and and and and constantly talked only about food and so forth. That was constantly going on. But nevertheless, I don't know whether speaking about what my mother used to cook for Shiff or what she made or what we had there between my friends. I don't know whether it anyway helped to steal the pains of hunger. Maybe maybe even worse maybe it somehow I think in and increase the the juice of of of of the of the digestive system and so forth. But nevertheless I think that it was it was something that every time something like this happened I said ah maybe he did listen to me. And this is what one thing about the bird. But then I I adopted the bird more or less and I felt that the bird is constantly with me. Whenever they loaded us up again in freight cars to to to let's say to take that to mouthousen and from mouthousen to milk I always picture that builders that that bird is sitting right on top of of that freight car and watching this royal and watching me what happens to me and so forth and be my friend. So this is in a nutshell the story about the bird. The other thing that I wanted to speak to you also shortly I mean uh briefly I would say is about the fire. I mentioned that I had access to fire while finally they from Matausen they trans unfortunately in Matausen [clears throat] I was separated from my father. I didn't see him again and we were separated there and so forth. But after I milk I ended up myself but fortunately in milk which was the third concentration camp that I was brought to there I already got a job. What was my job? My job was as theen trigger the carrier of the pointers. What are the pointers? Most of the prisoners worked in digging further and further, advancing into a tunnel on a mountain and building deeper and deeper and they were conveyor belts going into the tunnels and prisoners were shoveling the debris that that some of these prisoners were were were drilling through from from the from the walls of the mountain. All this debris, fortunately, it wasn't stones. It was basically sand and pebbles and they were shoveling it into on top of this conveyor belt and the conveyor belt carried it out. So basically they used in order for us for for the prisoners to advance into the tunnels further and further they use these air hammers and so forth. Like you see sometimes even today somebody is drilling into the street preparing it with an air hammer. So the these require certain steel pointers but after a while these steel pointers became dull. They were not per they did not perform the job as originally the intention was for them to perform. So I had to collect those those steel pointers and take them out, bring them out from the tunnels to the blacksmith who was outside attending a big fire, a nice with with coal, charcoal and so forth. There was a fire constantly going and I gave him over those pointers and he made of course heated them up red hot and then he hammered them into points again. And after they were cooled off, my job was to take the the the finished ones and bring them back into the tunnels where the prisoners were working and distribute the finished uh product to them. But nevertheless, that gave me a chance that I had access to fire. Nobody else had access to fire. As I mentioned before, we didn't have any calendars, pencils, papers, watches, nothing. We had, of course, as I mentioned in in my my book. Of course, we had coupled calendar. Fortunately, coupled as I describe was a was a computer, a a a live computer. and anybody any prisoner for some reason or other that he wanted to know when a suravis is or when the short when when Tishov is or when Kipper is for some reason not that they were able to to feel that we were able to in any way pray together or celebrate together and think it took but that wasn't on anybody's mind but nevertheless if somebody wanted to know ah you have to as couple couple never made a mistake because many times couple once we once well once there was also by accident that our camp was bombed and there was a certain day and the couple said that was on the day of sherb Thomas and then go in to to here in to yasham and say when was milk bombed the when when bump fell on barracks in in in milk and then and you'll see it was on the day of of of Joseph Thomas. So consequently he was he never made a mistake. So but me having access to that fire was a tremendous advantage. Why? Why was that tremendous advantage? Because I didn't have anything. But sometimes prisoners came to me and said I found a rotten potato. or somebody prisoner came, I found a bone and I'll tell you, would you put the bone or the wrapped potato on on the coal on the fire? Because once it was cinched, it tasted a little better. We could probably more digest digested whatever digest was left in the digestive system. And the bone if it was cinched and by fire and burned a little bit, it was easier to t to take it in between your teeth and and and and get some powder out of it. Anyhow, besides that, a lot of prisoners came who had a cigarette. And I'll tell you, a cigarette was like a fortune. We didn't have any money amongst us or anything else. But if somebody managed somehow to get a cigarette, he could buy for a cigarette, he could buy another b portion or two portions of bread. So you'll ask me later on how was it possible to to get somebody to sell you that bread? That's a different story. But nevertheless, if he was So a lot of them prisoners came and lit their cigarette near that fire because there was no other nobody had matches and so forth. But but the biggest part was that people brought me these things to put on there. Whether it was a dead bird, whether it was a bone, as I mentioned before, but I'll tell you the biggest thing was that I I think that Buim paying me back for this. I would tell you as a little boy, we had a a neighbor who was a drugist. You know what a drug is? He didn't didn't use drugs. He was somebody that had an appetaker. He had a a drugstore. And in Europe, a drugstore only sold drugs, my friend. Drugstore didn't sell milk or bread or or or or sugar. That was it. Only drugs were allowed in that place. And I he was a neighbor of ours. And once he I heard him say that a lot of the people who come down at this tree that the biggest remedy or a flu for this tree was charcoal powder. And they had in the drugstore in Montage, they had where they were selling packages of charcoal fire, charcoal powder for any people that neb suffered from that particular particular maka. So I heard about it. So I said to myself, maybe I can do something. Why? Because a lot a lot of prisoners came down but the biggest problem was for this disentry and some were so bad that they couldn't hold it anymore. The stomach just couldn't couldn't function and they ended up in the so-called re so-called hospital. Many of them who were even my dear friends unfortunately checked in with that mak to the hospital and they never checked out. I don't remember one person who ever went into that so-called raier whoever came out from there. So I decided and I said to to my friend the uh uh the the the blacksmith and I told him, "Would you allow me to take a piece of wood and and and have it have it burned real flaming hot?" And then I cooled it off and I had a little aluminum spoon that I always carry with me in case I get some soup or something. And I after it got cooled off and it got cold, I scraped off the powder of that burned uh piece of wood and but I have a big problem. I didn't have any we had two packages. I didn't have where to put it in. So finally the again the blacksmith gave me a very good acer. He says, "You see that pond in the back? It has some big leaf over the over the water. Why don't you go and tear some of that leaves off and you can package it in in part of the leaves, tear off some of the leaves and package it in there?" And I listened to him and I packaged that powder every time I could scrape off some package it and I started distributing it to some prisoners that were also suffering from that ma my friends I can't tell you how many came to me and said you don't know what you did for me I feel so much better today my stomach is functioning again and so forth so you see I I I I didn't say to the banish Look here, give me some credit for it. But I I was so happy that this is part of the thing that en was enabling the the the fire that I was access to was enabling to do also this to the prisoners. I would tell you I will touch very briefly for a moment on liberation. Liberation has been a very very interesting time, very complicated time. And I will tell you something. I sometimes when it comes to liberation, I can speak for a few hours about just how liberation and took place in the Ford camp and a but needless to say I would tell you only one thing. I sometimes uh according to my to my to my opinion, my private uh opinion, I sometimes compare the parallel of liberation for us prisoners. Sometimes I compare it to Mhammad Hari. How do I compare to Mhammad Hari? I remember many times before sometimes I quote Rabbi Lovski. I told him why did have to hold over the bar the the heavens like a hogus like a barrel. I mean said some tie would ask him all these questions Rabarovski raised once and I quote him every time before sh because I have your side for my mother usually a few days before shu so when I speak I quote him this in this when I speak about shu about mira so I will tell you why was it so first of all the most important thing as as far as liberation was concerned And as soon as the Americans arrived, food, food, food. That's all we wanted. There was most in we could sell our lives. I would be glad. I told my friends I would sell my gladly my life to be shot tomorrow morning. But if I could only have once in my life. I could have as bread to eat as I as I I want. So anyhow, but the Americans made a very big mistake. They came in and they brought in some uh field kitchens, army field kitchens on the pel plaz, which was the open place. They open up the kitchen and they started serving some uh I would say uh bacon and some fat and meat with with rice together. Many prisoners like lined up with their things and finally and they started gobbling it up and many of them dropped that. And I said to my friends, it's impossible that Americans are poisoning us. But I would tell you something. As much as our lives depends on that little food today, as much as we won't eat, I pre I would like to advise you don't don't take part in that food. And they didn't. And then and as I mentioned before in my book, as this went on, we finally noticed I finally noticed in about maybe a 100 yard or or 100 or a certain distance away another line standing. And I figured what what are they giving away over there? What is in that line? And I said to my friends, listen, I think we cannot we cannot partake in that food. That's something that's poison. We have to see maybe they're giving away something in that other line. And as we were approaching that line closer and closer, I finally saw my the Rashia Glenn Ginwald Green was also a prisoner in our in our camps. Ri was standing there with a parrot and a torn and shalat in his hand and everybody lined up and all my friends were realized finally standing in that line and finally I said to my friends let's also stand in the line and get and get making me a makeup over over that shellat and I we stand and then my turn came and he handed to me that to shellat and I made a and [snorts] I I remembered the last time I put on the trill in that in that barracks was the last time I put on the fill and that was it. And here is time of liberation a moment we didn't we didn't satisfy our hunger yet but yet already I was able to make a of of over and I I describe more about that incident in the books. I don't want to go in anymore. But I'll tell you something again. Let me tell you that why do I say there's a parallel in my own opinion between Mhammad Hari and liberation because at Mhammed Hari I think people said less than you know some of them said uh yeah I'll be a good Jew but I don't want any other I will accept but I will not accept that's not something that I want to appear to to the mitzvah that the that the the raun and the gdam are going to come and say that we all have to to to to complete part of life part of Jewish life I so so there were many different groups so one as we were standing in liberation one group said there couldn't be a god who would let us get through what we went through another group says hey I'm not going to kill I'm not going to murder I'm going honor my my parents but that's it I don't want any any other mitzvah observe but then send us wonderful they send us like the closing who was came from the from another camp he lost his entire family but he came to us and also silver from Cincinnati was there and many other shikim were there and they told us brothers Brothers and sisters at Buai, if we want to go back, if we want to be some a people that the world will recognize that we want to back and we when have a native with have to misfits then we have to go back to the mur of our parents and teachers gave us otherwise we will not be able to exist. Sure enough, I'll tell you without them, I don't know what happened. Uh the problem was unfortunately that we couldn't communicate with, let's say, our homes. Even after a while, the Americans changed the diet of the way they were distributing to the prisoners for the field kitchens. Eventually they changed uh to powdered milk and and and fina and and oatmeal that already we could digest and that already we could finally dig into our systems. So consequently once we our hunger was satisfied oh our hunger was satisfied [clears throat] with these with this particular type of food that we could digest. What's our we started thinking where's my where's my uncle Moa where's my wife where's my husband where's my brother where's my sister where's my mother where is everybody couldn't take a phone and get a a cell phone and call up I'm calling mash I'm calling I'm calling hey did uncle Mosha come back did come back there was no such way of communication there was only one way and Everybody knew it in his own back mind, in his own conscientious that the only way, the only way to find out whether uncle Mosha came back and the only way to find out for me whether any of my family survived after all my sisters were younger sisters. I should have to get back to Mkach. to get back to Mkasha, get back to Husta, get back to any other place, my friends, was not a a easy task, was almost an impossibility because everything was destroyed. Everything was bombed out. There was no communication and there was no transportation and nobody could. We only could travel maybe on I traveled on top of of of of military transport uh freight cars on the roof there. They let me go up a few of of our boys to go out to the roof. That's the only way. So I anyhow I finally finally we came back to I finally got back to Mash through Prague and Budapest where they gave us each place they gave us more of of religious articles whether it was film whether it was Sedur whether it was uh uh clothing each one in in in Prague and in Budapest and actually we found our way back home to find out who returned who didn't return. So once we were back home uh usually was before the thetoim it was 1945 before the and we were now under the Ukrainian government and we were warned by some of the of the very very high ranking Russian officers who were part of the Russian army who were situated there. They said, "My friends, you're Jews. You are just get through. You got through from terrible orals and so forth. You came back. We want you to know that this place is going to be closed down like even a fly won't be able to to move out of here. So while you still can, we will give you permission to go out." People started going to to DP camps. That's how they ended up in DP camps. Many most of them were going for aliyah to Israel. And my friends just to [clears throat] tell you that again. The fact that we have today these wonderful moes. We have in Chicago and South Benton and Milwaukee and and and in Lakewood is in here. [clears throat] It's all because they told us you have to go back and you have to start again living according to the miser that your parents gave you the helped us and somehow we got back and I'll tell you no doubt the fact that we have today all these I don't want to go in all the different places is because we listened to our sadikim we listened to our guys and we all went back to the muroy of our parents Thank you very much. I would like to open it up now for questions and answers. >> So then one question that someone sent up front was that they they noticed that uh to their knowledge you don't have seem to have a tattoo. If they noticed correctly, why is that? >> Well, just tell you briefly the reason why why I don't have a tattoo and 125,000 of other Hungarian uh prisoners didn't have a tattoo. uh is because that in around June or July there was uh uh there was negotiation between the biggest Makim the biggest the biggest killer Rikman uh was he said if you will manage to give us uh products for our military and so on for our people for the means for the Mariah in in in the amount of $100 million, we will free 125,000 uh uh Hungarian prisoners. Uh without my knowledge, I happen to be in that group and and the command was from from him not to tattoo this group. And they also they gave us instead of a yellow triangle in our numbers, we had a red triangle which indicated that we had political prisoners, not Jewish prisoners. >> When the when the trains arrived in um >> Awitz >> in Awitz, did the prisoners have any idea what the selection process was? What the two choices were? They know >> that that question has to I don't need it. That question has to put me back a little bit to the to the [clears throat] originally when we were still at home. Many questions many question people asked me what did you know? Did you know that an Awitz existed? Did you know the shitas that is going on in in in in in Galysia? Did you know of theas that is going on in communist pedals and all these things? And they asked us and I had as I mentioned before we didn't have any television. We didn't even have a radio. How did we get some news? We the the most of the news came through through Shimu through different yank said this and Raisk had said this and so forth. And then I mentioned before I love the mikvah in minkage and I was every Friday I placed myself in the hot mikvah in a corner and I listened to yankl came in and says you know what I just heard you know and and Mosha came in and said came in you know what what what is going on and I observed observe I mean not observed I absorbed all this information and finally after about a couple of hours soaking in in in that big way. I finally came home and I gave it all out and I said to my parents, "You know what I heard? You know what Kasal said? You know what said and so forth." And they said, "And sometimes I painted some very terrible pictures." And they said that's impossible. It's impossible to believe. Anyhow, whether whether it was actually impossible to believe is not the issue. issues that everybody said we cannot believe this otherwise we would go if we we really believe that all theas that's going on in Galysia at that time and was actually what went up in Galysia was not so much from the German Rosim it was done from the from the Lithuanians from the Estonians from the Pocks from from from the Ukrainians these were the biggest they did the the the the I would say the the of the of of the rasim very well. So I'm saying we did not want to believe that it was impossible to believe that this is actually true. So we denied it and and and so long till we finally eventually we faced it ourselves. Any other questions? Yeah. A lot of things have been written, a lot of different theories [clears throat] about the differences between people who survived and people who did not survive. And >> in what way do you see a difference? >> Well, that's that's what I was going to ask you is whether you have any theories. Are you talking about about being being observant in mitzvah in in in in mas and so forth or are you talking about between the relationship between a one person and the other in which in which way do you feel that that you feel that there's a difference? >> I don't know what I feel. I'm asking whether you because of your experience, your observation, whether you ever had any theory, any thoughts about whether whether there was something. >> I think she's asking what did you observe among the prisoners around you? >> No, no, that's not what she's asking. She's asking after that after liberation. >> Are you asking asking during the time in the camps or afterwards? >> I'm asking an open question. I'd like to go in that direction. Whatever he would like to share. Okay. >> Okay. The answer is basically that I will tell you something. There are when it came after the after so so to speak after liberation and after we settled in the DP camps and and some people went to Israel and Leah and so forth what whatever life started somehow getting back to semi-normal because we didn't we didn't immediately uh be able to uh to enjoy and feel that we have a normal life but nevertheless that was the idea. What do you think the DP camp served? The DP camp served that here is a group of whoever wants to come. Anybody that wants here, we will give you food. We'll give you food for Shabas. We'll give you protection. You will be able to observe your mitzvah. You'll be able to read a a new mega a new things which is written by by religious people. I mean, somehow life started to come back. I'll tell you something. Even in in the DP camp where I was, we organized already on Purum. We organized our Purum spill with the with with the with the with the of of the Ysef and Sadic and so forth just to get back to to they were they were shurim and so forth. So we that was part of getting back to normal life and whether everybody was this was was also trying to to whether religious or non-religious we were all in the same basically in the same situation and people were yes people were nice to each other whether you were observant whether you were sh mitzvous or not >> that wasn't >> rebar thank you so much for sharing >> I'm not a rabbi That's okay. >> Um, how did you uh practice uh Jewish life in the camps before you were liberated? What did that look like? [laughter] >> Okay. I practiced life. I'll tell you something. I was in four different concentration camps. And in all this time, in all the four camps, I can tell you only one thing. A very very seldom I notice somebody standing aside and diverting the shumineser. I very I almost never notice that. Very seldom did I say through we need you for minion which is going to be in that corner and we I want you to show up there. No, there was no such thing. I never you have to realize there was absolutely no religious practice going on in the camps itself. Why? Because there nobody what even in mind there was no no time to to to think about it. Mostly what was important is just to still steal the hunger pains. That was it. But nevertheless I there were individuals who did maybe practice bayas maybe individuals who were standing the shanzer abs nobody could see them maybe something this and we and every time we did check with couple when was coming up not that anybody was able to do something there was one time a friend of mine managed to to make a suka in in in under the circum irstances and he invited me to share the suka with him which I describe in my my book and so forth and I also talk about it sometimes but I can speak about I don't know how many different different subject different incidents and also uh one time I I I came we came back from work in the evening and we getting ready they gave us our our soup whatever we get got every day and suddenly I hear See, people were whispering to each other, whispering going around. And I say to my friends, would you find out what's going on? Some whispering going on. He says, "They just told me." He says, "It's Arab Kipper." And I said, "What do you mean it's Kipper? Who?" He says, "It's it was verified by couple. It is no doubt it's Arabium Kipper." Anyhow, we went to sleep that every night. and I describe about the certain dreams that I had at that night Arabian Kipper and what took place in our barracks. I don't want to go in and give you the whole details. It'll take me too long. >> Um, we often hear about survivors having a hard time talking about their experiences. Were you able to speak to your children and others about what you went through? Okay. A very good question. I'll tell you. Yes. When I came to Chicago in 1944 48 and I came to New York in 1947. I was with many I was with with quite a few friends that were also went through this whole ordeal and and in Chicago I used to meet many other survivors who were not necessarily in the same in the same camp I was or in the same camp. They were indifferent. They were so many. They were so many different. And somehow I will tell you something. Everybody, any any survivor that lived through any survivor that lived through the period of the that time has his own flu has his own story. They're not two alike. But there so all of them are important because all of them are nissim when they flew as without that people who were in hiding and people were who were in hiding in in by farmers by goyam and people who you have to realize that when it came time to liberation that these rasam didn't want many of these camps to fall in the hands of the liberators whether it was Russian or it was American so they had to either transfer them over either by by marching them for days and days to another another place where was would be safe not so close to the to the invasion of the allied forces and so forth. So many times they do did this and many times they took a lot of these prisoners and put them on open freight cars in the winter it was in height of the winter and and and shuttled them back and forth till half of them froze to death or half but but but honest don't ask. So some survived, some didn't survive. But may maybe death was then on. And I'll tell you something. Many, yes, many uh couldn't speak about it. Many couldn't speak about their experiences. Many couldn't speak about those. Many told me, "Yeah, my my father was speaking to the family. Many could speak to the children." Many couldn't speak to the children either. and that and some spoke only to to to a very very uh I think very very very uh individuals that that for some reason other they they wanted to share with but generally I will tell you were different types of approaches some people couldn't I for some reason I am thankful to that he gave me the idea sur you have to speak about it why because it is important who are more Not only on time but every day according to many it's a mitzvah to remember every day about so far I'm saying I had no problem talking about it maybe I talk too much sometimes about it but nevertheless it's important why because I feel you have to remember and you a lot of you maybe there's some you young ladies here who are how to have mothers of future generations you it's important it's your duty to inform these future generations like what went on Europe yeah there somebody said >> two questions >> yes >> first question you said you were in a group that was defined by as political prisoners in exchange for money >> right >> why was that group not released. >> That was what >> why was why was the group not released? >> Because they couldn't come up with with $100 million. They couldn't up with a hundred hundred million dollars. Not Mark Chef. Several hundred million dollars. This is was Aishman's request. you gave us for I don't know how many millions of dollars soap, cocoa, cigarettes, uh medications, all this in and and it was several several million dollars and we couldn't come up with $100,000 the the Hungarian uh I I I think the who were in charge of the Hungarian >> that's why so that's the first answer is >> but you did get redefined as a different group >> what Then >> the group was still redefined as political prisoners and not as Jewish prisoners. >> No, they remained in the camp, but they didn't change their their they didn't change any any of their of their numbers anymore. They didn't they that's remained untattoed. They would not tell them now that the deal is off now we have to tattoo them. They never got tattooed and they remained that way >> because the deal was half done but not completed. >> Right. It was a deal was not to did not take place. There was not so you say I'm I'm telling you if you do this and this I'm going to go do this for you but if the deal doesn't take place I'm saying but what but happened and so far it still remains. So that that that ceu that that the makimony gave that 125 prisoners should not be tattooed and they should not have the the the the insignia of Jewish prisoner that remain till liberation. Second question. >> Yes. Second question is why do you think some survivors can talk about their experiences and some can't? >> Well that is already the nature of the of a person himself there. It's like you understand even even in in natural life and what's happening there are people who there people will sit in in a in in a sheer with a with a a maggot shear and let's say whether is a dy or whether it's another gamora and some people would say oh I got to ask you this question I got to ask this this is what I'm wondering about some people would say quietly and never and even though they may have questions uh in in their mind that they wondering about but they don't have the courage maybe to come out and say rebi I have this and this question about this particular mama kazal can you give me an answer yeah maybe maybe some will do it and some will not do it that's that's that's the nature of some people that's it >> can I can I answer something can I say something >> I I can't Hear what she said >> and she say something about >> Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. >> My mother was in Ovitz. She told me that she didn't want us to know anything. They want and I've read it other places. They wanted to put it in the pan. They wanted to give children a good growing up a nice childhood. Wasn't until they were grandchildren that that my mother had the urge to sell. But the way I understood from her was she wanted to make us a nice life. >> Can I ask you a question? Do you yourself did you were you agreement with this? Were you feeling that this was the right thing? >> I I wanted I I only found out when I was about 10, let's say, and I got very into it and but I knew it was a board. >> [clears throat] >> We could not ask my mother anything. But my mother felt I think she truly believed that by keeping quiet. She we didn't know anything. She thought we knew nothing. Okay. And I don't know but the book came out by Helen Epste. You know the children of the Hollywood. You know that book? >> Yes. It says when the article came out New York Times, all these survivors children put the article in in their closets, under their bed. They were hiding it. And I said, I've got mine in the closet. And my mother could not believe it because it was in the air. It was just in the air. >> What is your name? >> My name is Eli Steinus. >> Okay. Styus. >> Yes. >> I'll tell you something. I just can't tell you how important is what you brought up because here we see an example of a situation where a mother said I will protect myself my children I protect my children in order not to tell them what happened in the Eurovv what happened to me what happened to your grandparents what happened to your great grandparents they all perished I don't I want to keep it for my children it's something that they should not know that's was her approach there other approaches No, my always personal approach was always no, I have to go and speak to people. I have to tell them I have to tell girls and in in Moyes Satoy in schools in high schools in Biancos, in other schools in Chicago and in Milwaukee and in Southbend. I have to tell them that they are the mothers of future generations and it's their duty, their duty to tell the children what happened. Why? Because we have to be counsel on God. should not happen again and we are not going to be on guard. We just leave it go. People could unfortunately some some some might come stand up and give us problems again. >> But she opened up to the grandchildren many years later. >> She did open up to the grandchildren. >> Grandchildren. I think it was us. >> Yeah. But that was already much later, right? >> Yes. Much >> in her life. >> She started telling me. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yes. First, thank you so much for coming to speak with us. >> I can't hear you. >> Thank you so much for coming to speak with us. >> Don't mention it. >> And sharing your story. >> Um I have two questions. I'll start with one. We'll get back around. >> Um and um >> everyone in life goes through great challenge and given your life experience. What is your advice for people as they're going through hardship in order to go on to build a beautiful life and not let their challenge define them? >> Is this two questions or one? >> One. >> One question. I'll tell you what I usually tell people and what myself I have taken upon myself. And I said to myself, Roule Sulle, I said, look here, there are certain things you have no control over it. You have absolutely no control over it. For instance, if I sit at the airport and I'm supposed to take a plane to to Chicago and suddenly they tell me that plane is canled and will not go out anymore and you have to find uh lodging for the nights. I mean there are people who will go around saying curse and and say but this so happened and and and and they they will not stop really using profane language and so forth. I saying I'm sit down. I said you is it my control? Can I help it? No. I mean there's nothing I can do about it. My advice has always been things that you have no control over it. Don't aggravate yourself because you have no but things that happen because later on you feel I did have control but I didn't speak up I didn't do anything I didn't give help this man I didn't help this woman and so that's a different story but I'm saying but usually when you feel that you have no control over anything don't aggravate yourself otherwise this is my advice any other question yeah in the back over Mine is an optional question and I just wanted also to thank you for coming to speak >> a little louder. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Given that the Holocaust led in large part to the founding of the state of Israel and again this is an optional question and because the state of Israel is in the middle of one of the longest wars or the longest war What is your if you can opt to share your opinion on service in the army? >> What are the thumbs of a question? >> What is your feelings about serving in the Israeli army today in light of current events? >> Are you kidding? This is [laughter] such an important part of life here. Who do you think I mean who do you think is protecting all the people the all the moist whether religious or non-religious who is protecting them? who is this is this is the the the the uh Israeli army who are carrying the uniform the uh the Israeli uniform. They're protecting us but they are going after after Rasim that killed Jews in in in in in during during the games of the the sport games and so forth. No, they they hunting down all these and eventually they're they're killing them the what they deserve. So you have to understand that what what living in Israel do you know what it means here? Do you know what it means to have the protection and the army here? I know as far as gym are concerned the problem is the the girls army and the boys army and sometimes they mix sometimes they don't mix. I I I understand all this. I understand these important questions and reservations. But nevertheless, all in all, we have to have a strong Israel in order for the world to know and have a respect for Jews all over. >> Can I say something? >> We're going to go we're going to go to this side real quick. Go ahead. >> I have no problem. I can be here till midnight. [laughter] >> I'll stay with you. >> Yeah. Uh yeah, >> so Himman, >> I want to ask a question. Um when you were in the camps before liberation, were you more likely thinking or dreaming if I get out of here, if I survive? Or were you more likely thinking or dreaming when I get out of here? when I survive and what were you thinking for a future if or when what will I do with my life? >> Ah that's you but you but you raised it a very important question but it it it requires more than one answer. First of all, it's not a question that I I I I many times I didn't have time to think about what's going to be happen if I survived because why? Because the hunger pains took president over every anything else. Somehow constantly you had to fight. Many times you were sitting with your friends and talking about what my mothers used to cook and what they used to make. Maybe it was still our hunger but it didn't. And actually that was prevented anybody from anything thinking anything else. But I'm saying uh uh would I did I think at all I did know one thing. I think as I mentioned before there are four times when my life almost almost ended and it didn't end. And then then somehow I came back to the to the thoughts when I originally when I saw that bird and I said you created that bird and you gave it wings and that bird can't go in and out of this dreaded place with with with the electric wires and so forth. But I am cannot do that. I'm confined here. I am in enclosed in this place and I and I my life is in danger. But nevertheless, I'm also your creation. I'm also part I know know why you are you there was a honor. I don't know why we are going through this. I'm not questioning that. I said to the but all I know is that I says not questioning it but if I survive please [clears throat] I'm also your creation to help me to survive. And every time as I said when my life almost ended and amiss didn't I feel I felt yes I think maybe listen to me and it happened after the third and fourth time I felt maybe I am destined to survive and but you don't say I'm now relying on this when the flu is going to is going to see that I yeah I have to do something what do I have to do I still have to do my trying to to to to uh limber up, trying to exercise, trying to help each each other of the my friends help each other by morning sometime washing our bodies with cold water and but still we have to do the whatever is possible to to maintain the physical health health as long as possible. But nevertheless, I had simonym that I maybe just maybe the bonus is going to help me to survive yet. >> Yes. >> Thank you for speaking so clearly. >> Thank you. Um we see all over the world uh the last two years marches um pro Palestinian marches and um in my mind unfortunately uh Holocaust survivors uh marching alongside against the um as they say genocide that Israel has been carrying out. Um, have you had an opportunity to speak to any uh fellow survivors on this? And what is your opinion um on why they march? >> If I understand your question correctly, you're asking me whether uh we had any comments between me and my friends about what's going on with one in in Gaza. Is that it? She's saying that there are Holocaust survivors who seem to identify with the the Gazins and feel that this is another genocide. But and I can't believe there are too many of them still alive. >> Holocaust survivors who are saying that what the Israelis are doing is the same thing as the Nazis. >> Do they Holocaust survivors who have been saying that? >> Yes, >> that's what she's saying. She's saying in there are these marches and the Holocaust survivors come out and say Israel is like the Nazis and they're killing the Palestinians. >> Where where which Holocaust survivors >> where where where and when did they make that statement >> in London? >> In London. >> Yeah. >> Well all over the world. [laughter] I mean how can you control who says something like that and and makes that comparison? What about the What about the that are saying that we're exactly like the the Israeli army are like the Nazis and they're killing people and this and that. What's your opinion? >> What was the exact question? >> There are lots of >> He's asking, do you have an opinion about who compare Israel to genocide? >> Well, I'll tell you something. As far as are concerned, I have had a contact in [clears throat] America. I've had with being in business for 60 years and 65 years. I've had contact with a lot a lot of uh non-Jewish customers, very very prominent people in business and so forth. I don't think that anybody ever has compared something like that or mentioned anything to like that. So I'm saying that this now I [clears throat] heard that there is such a thing think thing that happened here in in Israel that there are some people who made that comparison. I don't know. Somebody can compare uh this this this glass of of water to to to to a a river. You know, I have no control over these things. But there what generally I will tell you generally I will tell you I've had the contact with many non-Jews in in in America. I'm not going back now at my youth in before the war in Mkach. I was I was 12 13 years old and of course uh there was we experienced as as at the from the Ukrainians were lived among us and from the uh some of the non uh non-Coslovakian youth we could experience some anti-semitism but never never anything from the Czech Czechoslovakian background or for the Czechoslovakians schools of for the Czechoslovakian individuals. They were the most democratic country I think before the war in in in Europe. uh and not only were they a democratic most democratic country as far as Maserk was concerned. There was the the the Czech president but they also were I would say probably one of the most influential and and richest country in production and technical production theiras were coming out even when when very few cars were available before the before the world war before the war. So I'm saying the checks were a different people and the Slovaks were a different people. The Slovaks were already I imagine Catholic people. And of course as I said when I when I was a young boy we had problems from the Ukrainians. We had problems from some of the the Russians. We had some problems from Romanians but never the never from the from the from the Czech uh youth and so forth. So there were different people who came from different I believe uh beliefs and in different backgrounds that that some some felt that the they they have to give problems to Jews and some didn't. >> Yes. >> May I if you don't mind? >> Um we're talking a lot. >> What are you Jacob? No. >> I'm Jacob. Yes. talking a lot about the war in Gaza >> and um with the release of the hostages and you talked a lot about your liberation and this is being recorded. I'm curious to know what you would tell the hostages who have just been liberated. Some words of anything um if they were to see this. >> Well, there were probably many similarities that the hostages went through that they went through. Part of it is probably the constant hunger pains. I'm sure that they never gave them enough food to to the satisfaction of the know I have eaten a full meal. That's one of it. So the and and and as far as whether they uh to what extent they still hate them and what extent they they they hated them at the time when when they were under their thing is is is is all something which I don't know. I have to speak to them. I'll tell you only one thing. People ask me, do I hate the Germans? Do I do I I dislike them? And my answer is as follows. First of all, the Germans of today are not this generation of today in Germany are not the ones that killed my parents, my grandparents, and and men, women, and children. This is already a new different a new a new generation and new faith. >> How many? Three generations. >> What? >> Today is three generations later. four generations later. I think it's at least two uh maybe more because because these these I remember when I when I right after the war after I was liberated I was tell you my my I went to visit with my with my sisters I went to visit an ant in Vienna and that was in 1946 no 194 end of 1946 [snorts] and they the her husband who was uh she was married to to somebody that I finally learned. He took me he took me to he says, "Is would you like to go to Beth? They they had very famous bath different bath in in in in Vienna. Hot and cold and lukewarm and so so I finally says agree to." So I went with him. He took me to some bath and I see also some civilians were also using those bath and I look at these at these Germans who were also using them and I say I wonder how many people did you kill how many people did you kill who so forth but I'm saying that was in 1940 uh end of 1946 but it's n 19 uh uh 20 and what >> 25 2025 Can you say the same thing? No, I don't hate them. And so forth. And and and there were individual people I will tell you I didn't never told you about. There were some Germans during the the the who were my my guards who were trying to sometimes help me. Sometimes one gave me every time handed me an apple. Sometimes a guy handed me a sandwich or a piece of bread. a German guard who was standing near me with a with a gun and so forth. And and there was a case where where I had was I [clears throat] would tell you just briefly uh that my milk was situated in in a valley so to speak and was surrounded by barracks of the Luvafa. The Luftwafa was the the German air and of course they they were uh uh surrounded our our camp but they were not instrumental in guarding us. They were not our our our our Toro tormentor so to speak not the the Lufafa people but and nevertheless they were close to us. one one afternoon I think it was late late maybe in in I don't know it was late dur in in in the year I walked down we had a rule in our concentration camp whenever we walk down the street and a German soldier or German officer is coming towards us we have to stop not move and wait till he passes us one and yeah and take off our head and once he passes us we and continue walking. So I was walking down once in the in in milk on the afternoon and I look in a distance and I see out this officer uh coming towards me. He must be he must be a general. He had a fur collar with a with this German cross here and medals all over. Tremendous beautiful uniform. And as and as I stop in my tracks like usual and I take off my mitzer and he approaches me and he passes me by about maybe uh 10 8 yards or from me and he stops and and and I feel felt I had usually been they pass me I can start walking this why he says halt to my house he says hold hold don't don't move suddenly went through my mind wake What is my my sin now? What did I do? Why what what is he going to to to to do? So he's s standing about maybe five eight ft from me facing that way. And I'm saying and he says to me, can you hear me? He says can can I says and he says he said it will not last much longer. He says, "Hold out much longer. It will it will not last much longer." This is the first time. Of course, we didn't have any new any sort of news. But I will tell you something. The minute he I I I'm standing there and I figure am I really hearing this or is this imagination? And as he left, I started running to my barrack, not walking, running. And I come there and I say, "Come on, my friends. I want to tell you what happened to me." And I tell them exactly what happened with all the details and they say start stop hol nation stop your dreams this I said please if believe me and believe me it happened and as as I am telling you the truth no they they I don't think they ever believed in fact after liberation some of my friends >> how long afterward was liberation >> let even after liberation I told them again I says I want to tell you remember what I told It's not about a hallucination. I think I wasn't crazy. It was real. This is what what I heard and this is what he told me. This big guy and so so you see uh something like this happened also. But what what did you want to say? >> Is it a couple of months before? >> But before liberation. >> Yeah. How far between that and liberation? How far between? >> I would say no. It happened in Mel and then they took us to to Aman been about at least five months or so before liberation. >> Yeah. >> Yes. I wanted to ask you, you were talking about a few places you were transferred. You were in Ashburg and now in Poland and then three places in Austria. What according to let's say your knowledge, why would they transfer people all the time? uh so many different places when you were in so many different camps and also if you could just give us a little bit of information in terms of what was going on in those other three camps in Austria. How was that different than >> Duty? What is it? I I'm sorry I didn't quite >> I'm sorry. Can you repeat it one more time because I almost I got distracted. I apologize. >> You mentioned that you were transferred. You were in four different camps and so I'm just curious why according to what you think why would they transfer people so many different places? Were you transferred so often? >> Yeah. What was >> wasn't your last stop? You were transferred to Madousand then Mel. Why were you transferred so often? >> Poland to Austria. Okay. >> And also if you could just tell us a little bit about those three other camps in Austria. >> Okay. First of all, Matausen was a terrible terrible camp. Matausen was the camp where they issued my number. But Matausen was also a distribution camp. You can imagine that there was many thousands of Hungarian prisoners that I call them prisoners of Hungarian people that came in in these transports that were destined to go to work. Now they had many different situations, many different uh little towns had different type of of of of industry that was working for the German ri whether it was for airplanes making parts for airplanes or whether it was uh working by the railroad or whether was laying rails and so forth. So this matousen distributed all these prisoners that came in and including my father who was one of those transports to a different satellite places where each each satellite place had a concentration camp that was working for the for the German ri to to achieve victory so to speak. So consequently uh we were all uh many of them were this. Now the reason why they transferred so many camps including ourselves let's say from milk to a because the Russian army was approaching milk from uh because we were close to Vienna about maybe 60 70 miles or k or 100 kilometers from Vienna the Russians were approaching and they did not want us to be liberated by by the um by either by the Russian army or by the uh uh English uh or American army. So they consequently kept on taking as soon as these allied uh armies approached during the war they approached those camps they emptied them out and shipped them to another place or in many cases they killed them. In many places they put them on open freight cars and in the winter time and shoveled them back and forth just so they froze many of them froze to death and so forth. So there were many other ways that those rashim found somehow to empty out the camps not for us to uh to to fall into the to the armies of liberation. So I will tell you something even in Aan's day I would say I wake up one morning one morning in in in in from my bed from my bunk and I look out again and I turn to my friends and I say something something changed and they said but what are you talking about sir and says look out do you see the guard tower there the guard tower guy was standing always the machine gun that there on that guard tower is now some civilians with white bands on what's going on. Ah, I started to figure out and I said to my friends, you know, it's quite possible that we are close to to to the end of the war to liberation. And sure enough, I would tell you something sure enough one day about five days before we were liberated by the Americans. Five days before they told us again to appear on the appel plots. This time it was different. Why? Usually when they they counted us on the appel plots. People who were somehow dying in the hospital, they let them sit there. People who were so weak that they couldn't come out in into the appel plots and be counted, they left them there in in in the barracks. So this time everybody had to come out. Everybody. There was one guy. They counted us over and over and over again. There was one guy who was missing. One guy was my friend from who later on we were together in Chicago. He was originally from Presburg. He was actually originally learned in in Presburg or in Shiva and and and we were very good friends. He also settled in in Chicago and he told me where he was hiding that moment when they counted us over and over again. Eventually they they told us one thing which we never heard before from any of the German Razim and and we had to listen in many different languages. They told us that the war is near here and there is a possibility that many of us will be able to will get hurt during the fighting during the because he says we are the German army is ready to to to repel the the the onslaught of the of this of the allies and pretty soon there will be victory. So, but nevertheless, we should not be in the middle of the fight. So, they would advise us we all should go into the tunnels and hide in the tunnels that we build over there. And and eventually, like [clears throat] a one name said, Loyal Liy, no way will you get us shleppers into the stone. we don't go. And they didn't have anymore a tremendous amount of force forces because they were all already tried to escape from the allies. So of course we didn't go into those tunnels. But when the American were liberated us and they checked out those tunnels, they were all dynamited and they all had one button to push and boom and and and and and all everybody in those tunnels would would would would not get out so forth. So we see all all the things that the Germans tried to do in the last last moment of liberation. A few more ch questions. >> Thank you very much for coming. >> Thank you very much for coming. I just want to ask a little bit about your life in Hungary before the war. >> Czechoslovakia. >> In in Austra Hungary was Czechoslovakia. >> Okay. I'd like to ask you a little bit about your life in Czechoslovakia. The war had had begun in Czechoslovakia was was was overtaken by the time that that you would have been bombitzvah. So I I just what does a bar mitzvah look like in a Nazi occupied country? Well, I would tell you we were actually not Nazi occupied because that was part of the miracles of but but saved well I should save the the Hungarian Jews till the till 1944. You have to realize that when uh the Germans marched into Poland in 1939, end of 1939, beginning of 1940, and they started bombing the the the the moist and so forth. So many there were so many carbas that fell from from the from the from from the and so forth. So many Jews neb were killed immediately. That did not happen by us. Why? Because we were occupied by the by the Hungarians. Why were we occupied by Hungarians? Because Germany came to Hungarian king and told them, "Look here, we are not going to occupy physically. We are not going to march in to Hungary like we marched in to Belgium and France and so forth. We are not going to leave you alone." But you have to start giving the Jews problems. you have to start g taking away all their rights and so forth. So what did Hungary do? Sure, they started taking away our licenses. Lawyers could not could not be practice law. Uh I mean doctors could not practice their their profession and so forth and started taking away all different licenses in and making life miserable. But one thing I can tell you rais the big thing was that we still every night whether it was hunger pains or no hunger pains but we still went to bed in our own beds to sleep in our in our own bod. So that that was a very very important thing till of course the final moment when they slept us also away. But as my Maritzvah took place. Yes. I will tell you something. I don't remember even in the in the good times. I don't remember bar mitzvah boys in in in mkage. Uh besides having an aliyah that they should read from the to all this was not usually they used to have a a give a kdish. They used to have some schnaps with a cake and vish visha mletov and and so forth. One time when they made the the biggest sim was and that my I remember my parents made also the biggest sim that they ever made for Sulle for their little boy when my child started learning humish learning starting lay was the biggest the biggest party of all. So I remember that they made uh they they they had about 17 barrels of beer that were consumed by people were coming to the party of of of of when I started learning. They put they put me on a pedestal and they asked was a little and I said what does mean? I says radgarif he called but that's so who called and I had to explain others by means and then candies flame came down from the sky it was really really a wonderful time so that was the biggest party that my parents ever made the bar mitzvah was not that was already my mother that was during the Hungarians already during that time when they took away all their rights and all their things it was very difficult ult to make to buy something difficult to to to to buy food and get food into the house. But my mother uh she mentioned she somehow managed to to make a shabas. Sometimes she managed to get a a chicken or sometimes she managed even to get for for for the pur that little duck a little duck that I took to the show to so basically it was all but still we were at home till this all changed in 19 right PES the day after pes the pes this whole thing changed when they told us you have one hour to pack and take whatever you can carry and leave your home. That was the the the last thing that that finally we had to leave our homes. A few more. Okay. >> Okay. We're going to do one more question on each side and then have any closing remarks you want to share with us, Mr. Stark as you do. So, um yes, >> thank you for sharing with us. Um I'm sure we all agree that as you said that uh youth have to know about what happens and I'm sure most people would agree that that's at a certain age not young children in Aris I don't know what's in English but I've seen comics books in comics about the Holocaust about I heard Bob Morai spoke very much against this and once I didn't read the books but once I saw very young boy reading this. And I said, "You should read this." He says, "Why not?" I said, "You're too young." He said, "What's the problem?" I said, "It's too sad for you to read at your age." He says, "No, it's okay. The partisans came and saved everybody." >> What's the question? >> Okay. And if not, why is there a protest by educational institutions or rabbis that all of us being misrepresented to from children's comics from uh books? >> So she's asking what your opinion is. There are there are some books today that uh that uh express the Holocaust in comic book form perhaps um and that in some of the information might be like uh off or misrepresented. Am I am I repeating it correctly? >> For very young children >> for very young children like it's targeted for very young children. >> There's no mile to giving older children misinformation either. Anyway, >> there are some very greedy people that I understand that that to make a buck or to make a few dollars here and there if you call him. It's so important that they will probably abandon what is morally right and so forth. They will use the Holocaust if necessary because it will create an attention maybe will create people. use the Holocaust in certain way that they can profit from it. Whether it's through some kind of a a new story or maybe even a player based around it, the whole world is busy with the Holocaust. The whole world sometimes compares ridiculous situations to the Holocaust. You cannot help that. Nobody I cannot help it. It bothers me, but there's nothing I can do about it. If somebody comes out and profits from so-called the the Holocaust situation, I cannot help it. But I'll tell you something and and as far as as as uh my my it's very important for me to to to tell you that uh I certainly had no problem in in in in uh communicating. I had no problem and so forth. I feel it it was very very important. It is still very important and the fact is do you want me to close already or we still have a question? >> One more question. >> Okay. One more question. >> Okay. >> You want wait I just want to add I'm sorry if I can if it's with your permission one thing just that's this is not a plug for Mr. Stark's book but that's one of the reasons why he put his book forward. He felt there was not enough truthful representation of the Holocaust targeted for a younger audience. His book, if or when do you have a chance to see it, is targeted from ages more or less 10 and up. It's target and it's targeted for like, you know, tween and teenagers because he felt that group has been neglected and they haven't been represented with proper with proper books. You have like the boy in the strip pajamas which isn't even uh factual uh you know or Anne Frank which you know which is a different type of book. You're right. So that's why he put his book out into the world because he wanted something that was factual, true, that represented the Holocaust through his eyes. >> Let me let me tell you only one thing that right now it's impossible for me to walk through on Ashabas Street of Chicago. When I go to Shul or I come out from Shul and I see all these children going in different directions, they all come up to me and says, "Oh, Mr. Stark, I read your book." Oh, hey Mr. Sark, you know, I couldn't put it down. And this one tell me that. And then a lot of people come to me and want a brocha from me. I said, look here. I'm not a coen. I cannot give out brochas. The didn't tell me that I should give brahas. But again, I say maybe maybe just if you want a from me, fine. I hope that is gonna listen to me and give you what I what I plan or what I wish for you. So that's that is one of the things but I'll tell you if you want me to close already. I'll close it. >> One last question. One last one last question. >> One last question. You can speak you >> you can speak to him afterwards. Go ahead. Last question >> here. Here there's somebody here. >> Yes. You are supposed to give brah because when the satma reb came to he said he said and when he left they said who do we go to for a braha now rebi you're leaving he says find a survivor who's still putting on filling that's you go there get a >> right >> was that Rabbi >> that's me no forever [laughter] >> I will tell you something I will tell you something I I remember very well at the beginning. I'm not an ODM. I'm an ODM. I'm a per a human being. >> Well, and I how much I enjoyed I can't tell you how much I enjoyed your and I have to see you for a moment after after the this this meeting. Why? Because I owe some money to your and I got to know how to pay it. [laughter] >> I don't want to go back to Chicago. that but that guilt feeling. >> Last question. Last question. Go ahead. >> Okay. So, from what I understand, you've been doing this for a while, for many years even. Um, and you've been addressing many groups. And I was wondering two things. one whether there was a particular question that stood out to you over the years that you thought was very good and perhaps that influenced people that that the answer influenced people and how come you never get tired of answering people's questions? >> Well, I would I understand what you asked but I'll tell you something. There were so many different there's so many different questions usually but I'll tell you what the most important question always arises and what is it says how come you had the phase how come you survived and out of other people next to you didn't survive and I says how come you had amuna you claimed that you had amuna hashem and I say yes I said I had amuna hashem because that was my medication that was what I only think in those terrible days of the concentration camp that's the only thing I could hold on to many many prisoners came to me and said why are you trying to encourage us to survive don't you see what's going on around you don't you see turn in the back and see that that we all end end up that in that pile we're going to end up there so why try to survive another day or another week or another month. I mean it's it's it's it's impossible with all these hunger pains. And I said to them one thing. I says I want you to know one thing. What you are telling me now hurts me a great deal because I think that you're giving up. I says listen I am not a messenger of the loy. I am not a novi. I don't know more than you or this one or this president or the other one. I said I don't have any in the Vas but I do know one thing. I know that when you are proud of the Hungarian transport and I know when they took us away the moment they put us in those transport in those freight cars the war was lost. The war was lost maybe a year before that Germany lost the war in Stalingrad and many of them know that the war was lost and they slept us to Avitz and I'm telling you this was the big one of the biggest faults of biggest sources a lot written about it by rabbony by rabbitson she wrote a whole book about the folly of the of the Hungarian Jews how they were mis how they were mis misplaced and mistreated because >> misled. >> What? >> Can't hear you. >> Misled. They're also misled. >> Misled, right? Because I'll tell you something. They they they could have been saved. Look here. We were They transported to Ashitz about 474,000 nefasces, men, women, and children. Hungarians transport. Now I'll tell you something. It was a 19 beginning of 1944. Now I will tell you maybe many times let's assume that that we would say in in just like we said in in in in in our camp in in a in the last moment we said we are not going into the tunnels and and I knew they couldn't take us anymore. I mean they they how many people let's say in it would happen in 1940 and 1939 in Poland and Germany they would take the shing guns and call them and kill them all but that couldn't have happened in Hungary because they didn't have actually the killers the personnel the Russim that usually took took the lives of men women and children in Maliti and so forth they didn't so we would had no they would have killed maybe 100,000 150,000 fine but they wouldn't have killed 475,000 so actually I think we were misled by the Hungarian you are and we were it would have told us heen you know where you're going you there was no sign we're going we're not you're not going to Hungarian farms it's ridiculous you're going to Awitz we knew Awitz was we probably would have resisted and maybe a lot of them of us would have gotten killed But nevertheless may a lot of them would have remained alive too. So this I'm saying there was part of the folly of the Hungarian leadership and so forth. So there are any more questions still before closing? >> I think we'll close. >> Yeah. >> And as well we'll close. >> Well, I will tell you something. I with the permission of Rabbi Lovski, [clears throat] I would like to say to all of you Gilroy is very important because you we all know that the fish he created the fish the fish cannot have a nine hor you cannot give a nine hor fish. So is a big and I will say all the young ladies here that are here that need send you and also for your children should be all and I'll tell you something in in in name of of this in name of of Rabbi the closest who I think he was mostly responsible. He and Rabbi Silver from Cincinnati and a lot of a lot of from from Shikim from to tell us brothers and sisters, you have no choice. You have to go back to your miser you have to go back to what your parents taught you. And Bur Hashem, we listened to them and we accepted that and we went back. And if it wouldn't be for that, we wouldn't have the moes haters in in in every corner of America and in Lakewood and here in in thousands and thousands of of young people that feel that the their part is to to to before before they become involved in maybe in the world in the business world and so forth that they have to be something that they know certain certain by very well and so forth which is very good burashem for that. And if it wouldn't be that we listened to them and we went back to these to these to the to our mid from our parents and our and our shurim and our midday from from to from Gammoras and so forth that we wouldn't have all these moes today we listen to them and and gave us today all we we we we we you have idea in all the corners of America and so forth. People are toyra girls and boys are sitting and learning to mitzvah. We should only continue to have nas from each other and and I would like to thank again Rabbi and and and Yakov mayor and we should all hear serious stories from you and maybe just maybe as again is going to give me and my wife strength and then we'll be able to be here again. >> Thank you so much to everybody for coming. There's going to be after the program and tremendous you know that he came I can't call him now get upset of me and uh for the for the time that he gave us and when he comes the next time we'll make it a little longer.