Redefining Feminine Power | Rochi Pinson

This is the Birds' Eye View podcast. I'm Sara Blau. And I'm Feigy Blumingstein. And together, we're on a search [music] for real answers to real questions, so that you can feel your own Yiddishkeit. It's yours. It's your [music] inheritance. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Birds' Eye View. I'm so excited to be here with Feigy and our incredible guest, Rochie Pinson. Welcome, Rochie. So happy to be here with you, Feigy, and with you, Sara. What a treat. And Rochie is a shlucha, a designer, and a challah master. She's the author of two incredible cookbooks, Made of Challah. Yes. And they are gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous. >> table books. That's what I like. >> Right. Coffee table books. Yeah, even if you When people bring me a dirty copy, I am, you know, that does make me happy. >> [laughter] >> They come with their like crumbs all over and they want me to sign it. It's been used. Yeah. So, the first cookbook is called Rising. It's an international bestseller, already in its fifth printing since publication. And really, you like inspired women to make challah. Like people who didn't make challah before see this gorgeous colored cookbook and they're making challah. And it's this multi-generational thing cuz it's not just Rising, you also have this amazing cookbook called The Kids' Book of Challah, which >> [laughter] >> all age kids like It doesn't have an expiration date. Right. And I know we're talking to like older kids here, teenagers, not kids anymore, but it's also for you. I promise. And and it really just like brings this love of Yiddishkeit through all, you know, through every part of the family. It's like, you know, the strands of inspiration, of love. And Rochie's a pretty cool person. She travels around the country and the globe. She inspires Jewish women to embrace their uniquely feminine power through the wisdom of Torah, through the deep teachings of Torah as well. And Rochie has made challah bakes, not just with communities, but also with pretty cool people. Everybody I make challah with is cool. >> [laughter] >> That's true. That's true. Yes. And she teaches tips, tricks, techniques of making challah, and she's really sharing like not just challah, but like what does it mean? What is the true feminine power of a woman? And it's so, you know, it's so one with the challah. So, I'm really excited for this episode. Okay, so Rochie, I'm so excited to hear like how did you get into all this? Where did it all begin? I always say like, um, you know, there wasn't like this um, what do they call it? The guidance counselor who sat down and said to me, you know, you really should consider a career in challah. There was not a five-year plan. Not part of my plan. And really, I never really have a plan, to be honest. Um, so, you know, sometimes we connect differently to different characters in the Torah and I I always say that I connect very strongly to Yosef HaTzaddik. Um, and I really what I love about Yosef is kind of he he's this big dreamer and he has, you know, big ideas for himself, but no plan. And he kind of just falls into every situation and then once he's put into a situation, he just rises to the occasion. And I kind of feel like that's the story of my life. Um, I tend to say yes when, um, when I'm asked to do something or to show up for something. And it's led to a lot of things. >> to come here. I said yes to come here and it's kind of put me into really unexpected and crazy situations and it's brought me to where I am today, so it's really it's served me well. And a lot of happy accidents. Totally. I feel like in the world that we live in, like sometimes there are people like, "Oh, you're so delusional." And I'm like, "I'm delusional like Yosef." Like, Yeah. I know. You know, there's like a song like Gam Ani Cholem K'mo Yosef. Like one of my favorite songs. But also like that's how Hashem is communicating to us which direction we should be going to. Like these opportunities are indicators. Like follow that arrow. Right. Right. And I feel like there's so often Hashem is giving us messages and we're just not picking up on it because we're so hung up on what we think we should be doing or we're So, you know, for people who do have a good plan, that's great. And I feel like everyone has a different path to get to their place. But my path has always been just show up and things will happen. So, how did you fall into this? Is it like a type B personality? I think sometimes it is. >> not type A. >> [laughter] >> I could be like type Z. I don't know. Right. Not type A. Uh, so, yeah, so the challah thing was another happy accident, really. Um, so I'm newly married, you know, said yes to my husband, right? Um, so it starts there. And, uh, my husband and I are Chabad, so you know, be Chabad, see the world, that's the way it goes. And we are newly married and we get a phone call from Chabad headquarters. And they tell us that there is this community in Kobe, Japan, and they don't have a rabbi right now, and it's almost Tishrei. Uh, it's getting urgent, you know, Rosh Hashanah's coming. They need a rabbi. Would we go out there and lead the community? And of course you said yes. Of course I said yes. I mean, I want to say yes to anything, you know. I was never in Japan. So, my husband had spent a lot of time on Merkos Shluchus, like the shluchus that people do when they're single. Um, he had spent a lot of time in the Far East, so they kind of knew he was connected to the different communities. So, that's kind of how we fell into that, but I had never been and this was a great adventure. Said yes, you know, packed a lot of tuna, figured I was set. >> [laughter] >> It was before they had the packets, so it was like the >> no, no. There was really it was tuna and matzah was like what you took when you went off to the wild. Not like string cheese? I feel like string No, I I I don't know. This was a long time ago. >> [laughter] >> Um, [gasps] but yeah, I figured we have everything we need, you know, suitcase full of tuna, we're good. So, we get there and it's right before Rosh Hashanah and we sit down with the community leaders and uh, so they they, you know, we start talking about what's, you know, going to be and menus and and of course, I'm so naive and I turn to the president of the shul and say, "So, um, where does one buy the challah in Kobe?" Yeah. [laughter] And, um, yeah, and his face like just literally fell. He looked at me like, "Uh-oh. >> [laughter] >> Who did they send us?" Um, and just to backtrack a little bit, I actually did not know you can make challah. I I thought bakeries made challah only. So, I grew up in Vancouver, British Columbia. Uh, my parents are the Chabad shluchim there, and we had nothing kosher in the entire city. There was We were like the first people keeping kosher there. And, um, there was one thing you could buy kosher in Vancouver, British Columbia back then. It was a little tiny hole-in-the-wall bakery that sold one kind of bread and it was challah. And this was really, really lucky for my mother. I guess I get my luck from somewhere. >> [laughter] >> So, she tried making challah like early in her marriage and it was an epic fail. And she was fully traumatized and, um, she gets to Vancouver and there's literally nothing that you can buy, um, except challah. So, that was really lucky for her. But for me, you know, they say everyone needs a good origin story. So, I said that was also lucky for me that I never had homemade challah, otherwise I wouldn't have this story to tell you. Um, but I didn't even know that you can make challah by hand. I thought it grows in a bakery. Um, so, this was my, uh, big aha moment and I was going to have to make challah not just for my family, but now like for an entire community, for all of the yamim tovim, and this was a challenge. So, I don't back down from a challenge and I head into that kitchen and every single thing was in Japanese and nothing looked like what I knew it should look like. And this was before you could, um, you know, Google or go on YouTube and like watch a tutorial. Or ask ChatGPT to make the challah for you. >> [laughter] >> Um, and I had to really just figure this thing out. And I did and it was a great challenge and at the end of the day I had this like 50 challahs. Wow. >> And beginners' luck, you know, they rose, they smelled amazing, and it was really an incredible experience. You know, you think about it for like a 21-year-old girl, like what had I even cooked in my life before this? Like I I didn't yet have a family or home. I was just starting out. We were a few months into our marriage. And here I am being called on to like feed this whole community. And it was such an amazing experience feeding them this challah. It didn't feel like the other stuff that I made, you know, whether it was the chicken or the salads or the other stuff that I was making and helping out in the kitchen with throughout that whole season. It was really the challah that I felt like I was sharing a part of myself. And it felt really powerful. And I I made a pledge then that I want a home that smells like challah before Shabbos. Like I want my kids to come home Erev Shabbos and and feel that. And so, that's that's where it all began. >> Wow. >> [laughter] >> You know, I know also you don't just talk about challah when you're going to challah bakes. You talk a lot about what it means to be a Jewish woman and what does it mean feminine power? And I'm curious like what's that connection? Like what's the connection between challah, between being a Jewish woman, between true feminine power? Yeah. Yeah, that's really that was my journey, really, you know, going back into the kitchen every week and feeling like I was connecting with this mitzvah and connecting with the process and um, there was so much information and so much wisdom in this, really, in the wisdom of how we feed our families and how we feed ourselves that really helped me in my sort of journey to figuring out what is what does it mean to be a powerful woman? And So what happened next? >> [laughter] >> So I'll take you back. I will I'll take you back um growing up as a uh a girl of the '80s and '90s >> Even though like >> I thought so. I thought it was pretty great. Um the big hair, the big everything, and the big shoulder pads. Um so to me like this image in my mind of a powerful woman was like you know the the the the the power suit with like the the enormous shoulder pads which I'll come back >> totally visualize that. I know what you're [laughter] talking about. >> And a little briefcase on the side. >> Yes, the briefcase. Remember when we had briefcases and And the heels. >> And the heels. But not thin heels like the thick practical ones. >> the practical ones that the flight attendants used to wear. >> Yes, yes. You remember the flight attendant purses. And pantyhose and like you had you wore and it was like the pencil skirt and the big shoulder pads. >> And yes, we were like serious cuz we were in a man's world and we were crushing it. Like we could do whatever they do, but we could do it in a pink suit. So it was different. >> [laughter] >> But we had the huge shoulder pads. It was like that sort of represented I think back like that represented like we were in a masculine world. Like like the difference between a man and a woman like the big shoulders and our little delicate shoulders. No, we were going to be like the big powerful woman. Um we can do everything that a man can, but we can do it in heels and we can do it in a pink suit. And I kind of had this picture in my mind. I knew I wanted to do something in this world and I wanted to be powerful in some way. Um and that was sort of the the image that I carried with me was this like pink >> [laughter] >> massive shoulder pads, you know, purposefully getting on a train and going to the city and going to work. And I had this image in my mind, but I've always been an artist and um I kind of wanted to figure out how do I combine these two? >> Um so I kind of got into um to commercial art like graphic design um and advertising and I love words and writing, so that was like a great way of combining the image with the words and concepts and ideas and it was perfect. And so um yes, I went to school for that. And I went after I got married, went to school. Um and just a little tangent like on my process to becoming, you know, the the woman in the big pink suit. Um I was going to school and I was newly married, so I was still self-conscious about wearing my sheitel and I was covering my hair with a wig and um so I was like very conscious because everyone was my age, but like nobody was married. You know, this wasn't like Torah women. Art school. There weren't So I was really the only Frum one, the only one married and then I'm wearing a wig. So at this point in my life I was self-conscious about it. Um and I I was always worried that people were going to realize that it was a wig. And then like as like time wore on and I and I and I got pregnant and it was the winter and and I was like lazy about like fussing with it. It was before lace sheitels, by the way. So it's like I was fussing with my hairline, so I started >> it. Right. >> Yeah. So I just started sticking on a beanie every day and it was winter, so it was perfect. And then a girl in my class like once called me aside and she's like, "Can I ask you a really personal question?" And I'm like, "Okay." She's like, "I know that you're Jewish and I see that you're pregnant." She's like, "Is there something about covering your hair when you get pregnant?" >> She thought you were putting on the beanie cuz you were pregnant. >> Right, exactly. And I like I'm like I thought she like discovered that I was wearing a wig. I was like, "Oh my god, is like my hairline showing?" And I was like, "Why do you ask?" And she said, "Well, you started wearing a hat every day and I'm now I notice you're pregnant." And I was like, "Oh." So then I told her. I was like, "Actually this is covering my real head covering." And we And like I kind of pledged from then that I'm going to be really proud of my sheitel. And I've it's really been part of my shlichus like and I do I I I work with a lot of celebrities and I teach people who are you know, the image is really important and I feel like part of my shlichus is wearing a really good wig and telling people, "By the way, this is a wig." >> And I feel like it is gorgeous. You look fantastic and and it totally could be your hair. >> it's it's really important I feel like that people should know that you can cover your hair and still look good and it could look you know, you can look like a woman who cares about her appearance. Anyways, so tangent. But >> [snorts] >> going on my journey to get to the pink uh suit and um It was like a fuchsia, not a not a light pink. >> No, it was a hot pink. >> [laughter] >> It was like nobody could nobody would miss you. Right, right. In all the black suits, you were the one in the pink suit. You were still [snorts] making a statement, "I'm a woman and I'm here." And that was a big deal then. And I think like girls like I I feel like I'm talking to a generation that is post-feminist, so for you guys this is like kind of like almost it's funny to think about it cuz like you already know >> about the generation that my girls are growing up in and it's like the Pilates generation. >> Yeah. It's like the opposite of that. It's because we're able to lean into our femininity more. >> I think that we don't have to feel like we need to like be like them. >> be like a man. But this is like and this is part of the Mashiach's journey and we'll talk about that I think that it's like part of our journey is that like we don't have to show up in a suit with big shoulder pads. Like that's not where our strength is. But I was still in that mode. Like I still thought that was power. And um so I graduated and got an amazing job right out of college in the city with an ad agency and um I felt like I was just crushing this thing, you know? >> You made it. >> Um I made it. I bought the suit. Uh [snorts] showed up to my first week of work and it was so much fun. I was living the dream. Um and it was the first Friday that I was at work and of course I had spoken to my bosses and told them I'm religious and got to go home at noon on Friday and they were so understanding and everything was working out so well. Um [snorts] and it's noon on Friday and um sitting at my desk and I am nowhere near ready to go home. And clients are calling and there's a deadline and there's an urgent meeting I have to go into and there's and the stuff is piling up and I'm watching the clock and I have all my ingredients in my kitchen, you know, I laid them out in the morning all nicely like I was going to make my challah cuz remember I was making challah every week and this was like part of my plan. Um this was like what I was going to do. And the clock is ticking and the clock is ticking and it ends up like I'm finally running out of the office on my way back to the train and I call my husband and like I was so devastated and I was like, "I think you're going to have to go and buy challah in the bakery. I am not going to manage challah." And like that Shabbos was like the first time since I started making Shabbos and I started that we didn't have homemade challah. And as I sat at the Friday night table, I sat at the Shabbos meal eating this bakery challah. >> [laughter] >> No offense. I mean >> was it egg challah? WAS IT WATER CHALLAH? >> It was just it's not the same. It's not the same. And I felt really crushed because I guess until then I kind of had this illusion that we could do it all. >> that we could do it all. I was a girl of the '80s and the '90s and we grew up with that you can do it all. And like I thought that meant that we can be a man and a woman. I thought that's what it meant. And I think that's what the world was trying to tell us. >> the world was telling us. And I should have known better. Um but I didn't yet and it was that that was a huge aha moment for me. Um and I sat at my Shabbos table and felt like ooh, I think I have to rethink this. Like this is not going to work. Like my house didn't feel like Shabbos. I like literally jumped in the shower, put on something, sat down at the and I didn't feel like it was Shabbos. I'm like, "Oh, is this how my kids are going to grow up? Is this the home? Like no, I want music blasting in the kitchen and a happy mother making challah. I want the house to smell like challah and I want that. Yeah, and I also want to be super creative and I want to be able to like use my talents and use my abilities, but not at the expense of that. And it was a really hard Shabbos and I cried a lot. Um and at the end of Shabbos I made a decision and Sunday morning I called my boss and I quit my job. Just like that. Just like that. I was like, "This is not going to work. This is not going to work. I You're so lucky though that you like realized it so fast. >> I don't know. >> Like it was like it was like your feminine instinct to be like, "No. No, no, no. I need something else." >> Yeah. Yeah, I I feel so lucky and I feel so blessed and I know that it's also a function of growing up you know, as a Chabad chassid and being surrounded by women who were powerful. Like you know, my mother was a shlicha and she was teaching classes and people were calling her and asking her advice and I knew there was power there, but you know, they they say in Yiddish there's a word fukishift. You can get like um you can get like sort of talked into or like sort of sucked into the secular vision of what success is or what any, you know, definition is. >> Or what femininity is, right? >> right, sets as a woman. >> interesting because you learn and you make challah bakes with a lot of these executives. Yeah. Right? You're You're working with celebrities and you know, I think I saw a post of you making challah with Ivanka. Yes, [laughter] we did. Which sounds so So I'm curious, like clearly they're resonating with your message of what it means to be a woman. And I'd love if you can talk a little bit more, you know, to to the to the girls that are listening. Yeah. What So what does it mean to be a woman? What is femininity according to Tyra? Beautiful. Yeah. So yes, um elephant in the room, I do I make I make challah with celebrities. I don't name drop and I don't put them on my Instagram feed generally. >> Sorry. Uh no, no, no. It's No, I think it's actually important. Um and girls, if you're listening, I actually do think it's important to know because we do live in a society and a a culture that um that creates sort of a a mystical aura around these people and um we can get fakeshift we can get sucked into that and think like that they are actually in some way uh more successful or more powerful than we are. Um [snorts] and some of them do, they have a tremendous platform and they have a capacity. And by the way, my making challah with a lot of these celebrities has segued into my learning with them and I have amazing chaburas and chaverusas with incredible women and I will not name drop, but Ivanka's one of them. Um we learn parsha every week. And um and I feel like it's it's such a gift um to be able to give them this awareness of their feminine power and show them how the Tyra really is ours, how we can own it. But it starts with food. Like my journey started with food and it still is very much about that. And um if you really think about it everything starts with food. You know, we we tend to think I mean, I happen to love food, by the way. Um >> [laughter] >> Wouldn't have guessed. >> People People actually tell me like they see me coming, they wash. >> [laughter] >> They're like the carbs are coming. Um but I I I I bring challah with me a lot, you know, it happens. Um I've sort of it's it's I you know, I fell into it, Yosef. My reality. Um but if you think about it, we we we tend to think the food issues are really very 21st century um and they're really modern, whether it's keto or gluten-free or I don't know, what's the what's the newest trend everyone is >> Intermittent fasting. >> Intermittent fasting. Not eating at all. That's the newest thing. >> [laughter] >> We went from not eating this to just like not eating Just don't eat. >> [laughter] >> Um but yeah, and and we really like we we tend to think that it's such a modern thing. Actually when I was speaking to a group of of um girls once and um and there was a there was one of the people who were speaking was a Holocaust survivor and she was talking about her story and she she said something about like there was one time like they didn't eat for like 3 days and a girl that was a high school girl and she was like, "Wow, I admire your self-control." >> [laughter] >> Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. So >> [laughter] >> They say they say our eating issues are hereditary. >> [snorts] >> We get them, you know, from our from you know, my my mother starved herself, my grandmother starved herself. [laughter] You should know that like I feel like my grandparents who were survivors, they would just like stuff us with food. >> Yes, exactly. Exactly. And so much of the way we relate to food has so much to do with with our story of, you know, survival and and and all of that. But if you go if you want to really think about food issues, they go back to like literally the dawn of creation. We were all of how many hours old in Gan Eden. We were just created and what is like there are so many ways we could have sabotaged ourselves, really. I mean but how do we sabotage ourselves with food? The first thing we do is we eat the wrong food when we're not supposed to eat it and everything fractures after that. Like that's like the beginning of like the breaking and we're working towards healing that since that moment. And it really all began with food and if you think about it if it was food that was the doorway out of Gan Eden then it will be food that brings us back into that state of wholeness and integration and feeling at one. And that brings us to the woman. Because we are the feeders, we are the nurturers of this world. We're so lucky. We [snorts] are. I wouldn't have it any other way. And it's like that's where the healing begins. So you know, I might be talking to an audience now, girls, you might be at a stage where you're not thinking about feeding other people but you're thinking about how you feed yourself. And that's so important right now in these years before you start building a home, before you're the one who's in charge of the kitchen and in charge of what you're putting into your families' lunch boxes. What are you putting into your own body and how are you connecting with that food and what's your relationship to eating and to food? And that's something we have to figure out because it's where it begins, how we nourish ourselves and how integrated we feel internally. So interesting. I remember going to nutrition as you told me, like just like a baby needs to nurse every few hours, you have to feed the baby, like you have to feed yourself every few hours like a baby. And I was like, I didn't think of that. Like I didn't think of this idea of you know, nourishing myself as as a responsibility, as an obligation, as a nurturing thing, you know. I was like, "Oh." Right. Right. And so many times like we start our journey as wives and mothers um before we ever really thought about this. And now we're responsible for feeding other people, but we don't even know how to feed ourselves. So and it's like a full-time job. >> [laughter] >> It's like a full-time from like the thinking about what you're going to make to the shopping to the buying to the and all the intentions that go into it. Like I feel like there's so much to meal planning. Like there's such a spiritual side to it. Like how am I going to feed everybody in the healthiest way? What are my intentions when I cook the food? What am I giving over to my family when I do it? And like so much carried over. It's so interesting. I just remembered something. Yeah. The Lubavitcher Rebbe had 12 Torah passages that he taught that all children should learn. Right. >> And one of them which is the foundation of chinuch, one of them is v'shinantam l'vanecha. Right? It's the pasuk that says v'shinantam l'vanecha that you should be teaching your children d'var Right? In every aspect of your life. That wherever you are, there's no scope of your life that's outside of Tyra near the sky. What's the example that the Rebbe gives? Like the the the practical, I guess how the expression of v'shinantam l'vanecha? It's in a sicha. The Rebbe says healthy eating. Mm. Wow. >> Wow. Healthy eating from the perspective of not like you know, you know, like a selfish perspective, not from like a modern culture perspective, but even there we can have the Tyra perspective. Even there you could you know, you used the word integrated before. Yeah. Can you take Can you expand what that means a little bit? Like, you know, based on what we're saying here about the intention and the spiritual and the and this being every aspect of our life, what does it mean integration? That a woman integrates. Yeah. I mean, first of all, it's not an accident that we have to feed ourselves constantly, that we are created Hashem created us this way on purpose. That we get hungry. >> can't just like take a pill. Like >> Right. That we get breakfast The month wasn't even satisfying. You know, it's it's yeah, we we want to feed ourselves. It's It's really how we were created. So we need to really figure it out. It's the first, if you think about it, it's the first intentional act we do after we're born is eat. We nurse. It's like the first act >> And it's instinctual. It's like this is what I need. >> but it's it's something you have to actually almost draw yourself towards. So you're breathing first, right? But that's like a almost an involuntary. So the first voluntary way that we nourish ourselves is food. It's our first experience of want of desire of need in this world. So food is really primal and how we're fed and how we feed our children is going to is like going to inform how they what they expect of the world. Do they trust the world that when they're hungry that there's food for them. That when they need something that And that's you know, we talk about Hashem and it can be like a foreign concept. You know, all these words that you're learning in school and and and they're and your teacher's saying, you know, kedusha and tahara and Hashem and and they sound >> They We almost make it sound cliche. Yeah. And they sound like words that really they Do they really have to do so much with our human experience? Like like, you know, the day-to-day Tyra >> Because like sometimes it's not tangible. So it's like, "Oh, that's something that's a little bit more foreign." But I think the integration will help once you teach it to us. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Well, I'm I'm working on teaching it to myself. I think it's a lifelong it's a lifelong learning. I think it's like the >> So how do you bridge that? How do you bridge the Hashem from cliche to being something, you know, that is integrated into your food? Right. Okay, we'll make the leap. Um so what we're talking about feeding ourselves and feeding our family, right? Um and by the way, the the food that was in the in Gan Eden, the food that they ate that caused all the problems to begin with. That was not an apple. I think the artist who painted that they they just thought an apple was pretty. I think it was probably considered like the like the prized fruit at that time. Like it was probably really hard to get an apple, you know? It was like apples were something special, but the Meforshim have many different explanations, and the one that really I connect to is that it was wheat. How's wheat a fruit? Right. How how could you eat wheat? But like then I guess that I'm thinking that like it was right what originally when Hashem said was like ates pre osa pre that you should ates Yeah. pre osa pre, right? That like you should be able to eat anything that just comes straight from the ground. So, like in a world where everything is nourishing and everything is one and there's no like sifting and there's no processing like the world is just in an integrated state, then everything nourishes us perfectly, and wheat was like that. Like you could pick it off the tree. It was edible. No chaff, no nothing. And you know bread is the perfect form of sustenance, right? So, when you eat bread, like you could live on bread and water. You can actually survive. It has every nutrient that you need. We You know, it's gotten a bad rap with the whole gluten-free thing. And I try to talk people out of that in my cookbook, [sighs] but it's it originally the chita, the wheat is like this perfect form of nourishment. It is like the first of like this shivas aminim. So, like it's has like such importance. And and and you know, we're told that a person doesn't have da'as or awareness until they eat wheat. Like wheat is this fruit of it's the grain of awareness. So, it's this idea that they were eating this wheat, but they weren't ready yet. They weren't yet they didn't work through what had to be worked through. They wasn't ready for that moment in creation for them to have that da'as. They were eating this wheat, but they weren't ready yet. They weren't yet they didn't work through what had to be worked through. They wasn't ready for that moment in creation for them to have that da'as. They were eating this wheat, but they weren't ready yet. They weren't yet they didn't work through what had to be worked through. They wasn't ready for that moment in creation for them to have that da'as. And so, you know, this idea that now we have to go through a whole process to get to a place where it nourishes us. We have to you know, and the process of getting from wheat to bread is an enormous process that takes forever. We think it's a process to make the challah. Like that's not getting to the flour. Right. Just to get it to state where it's flour. Like that's such an avodah. So, really for us like being connecting to that idea that we are you know, that there is this masculine idea of going through the process, the six days of the week, the the the making things happen. Um you know, the power suit with the big shoulder pads. It's like that masculine reality of like I'm going to go to work. I'm going to go to a place, and I'm going to get things done, and I'm that's success. And in the six days of the week in a masculine reality, that is success. But then there's there's there's that whole other side. There's the nurturing and the nourishing that is the Shabbos. That is this space of everything is as it needs to be, and you just show up. And um that really in terms of eating, these two awarenesses are so important to be connected to. Or the state that we're in when we eat the food. Like are we in that go go go go go um like you know, the rat race of the world of like I need to get this done, and I need to finish this, and I need to get good marks on my test, and I need to I need to finish the report, and I need to show up at this time, and I need to and yeah, that's like our six days a week, but that's survival. And survival mode is not a mode which encourages digestion. So, it's a really powerful idea that um that our brains, you know, they have different functions, and when we're in survival mode and when we're worried about we can't process our food. Like we can't even properly digest it. No, our body won't. Our body won't. It won't use the resources to digest the food if it needs them for survival. So, that really explains like why Ashkenazis have all these like >> [laughter] >> we love a good gastro issues, right? Because like that we've been surviving for so many years. So, you're paralleling that to the six days of the week as opposed to Shabbos, right? Which is not go go go go. Right. And Shabbos is the woman. Right. Yeah. So, when you're like eating from this place of survival, I like you could be eating the healthiest thing. You can be eating an apple back to the apple, but with so much guilt and shame and feeling so bad about yourself and do I really I don't need this and like I'm just hacking and I'm like I'm I'm fat and it actually doesn't allow you to digest. And then you could sit down Friday night and it's peaceful, and you've prepared this challah or your mother's prepared the challah and the house smells like all the food, and your body just knows it's Shabbos. You know that feeling? When you just know, your whole body relaxes. Like that tiredness of Friday night. It doesn't matter like it's doesn't matter what time. It could be 4:00 in the afternoon, right? So funny. I joke that like during the week like I eat it out of my car, which is like the worst thing because I'm always in that stress running running running. So, like I have pictures of myself like sitting in the car, and I'm like my Shabbos homework is to like sit at the table and be present with the food and make the bracha for the food. And like when Friday night before we eat the challah, when everybody's like quiet sitting around the table, there's like this hush around the table, and everybody's like waiting, and then like the bracha comes, and there's like intention. And we're big like first course yidden. Like our first course [laughter] is like how many dips do you serve? Challah and dips with all the dips. Right. We really kind of stop there. We do like a little soup and whatever, and then we go. But it's the challah. It's like we're all waiting for that challah because it comes with the intention. It comes with like knowing that I'm not rushing anywhere, and I could sit there, and I could eat it, and I can enjoy it, and it properly digests. And then we always have a good sleep right night usually. But we always say that you don't gain weight on Shabbos, right? And >> [laughter] >> I mean it also helps that you can't weigh yourself on Shabbos. But I think it really comes from that this is integration, right? Like when you're when you're eating that first bite of challah, and it means Shabbos to you, and it means that you are that that this is the taste of Shabbos, and you and you you've waited for this, and and you you like earned this Shabbos challah, you know? And you it's like that that is being absorbed. Your body knows what to do with that challah. Your body's going to process that challah. So interesting because that's also probably the idea of like ainik Shabbos. Yeah. That because you have this access to this higher level of your neshama, there's something special about Shabbos. And what does that mean? See, we say these words you have high access to What does that even mean? What does that mean that I have higher access? What does it mean I have an access to we have like an access to yeseira. >> [laughter] >> Shama yeseira, yechida, but yechida literally means unity, one, integration. That means on Shabbos we have this ability that all these physical pleasures can be united, can be one with with spirituality. Right. We're like during the week it's like scattered, right? Like we discussed that idea of like avodah she beurim. Like being able to like sift through whatever needs to be done. And it's funny because like challah actually like flour has to be sifted. Actually, the first time I sifted challah was when I lived in Israel. They're like there's bugs. Yeah. Only in Israel. >> [laughter] >> But yeah. It's probably here. We Everything's faster in America. Do you sift your own or not? I don't sift my flour. I buy in those those like the plastic you know, like the plasticky um you know, like those they're they're sealed. You don't have to sift it. I think American flour in general. But it maybe if you live in like humid climates, whatever. So, how does everything we're talking about here with Shabbos and the integration, how does it connect back to the mistake that Chava made? Right. Um so, there was like this disconnect between um the food they were eating and the intention, right? They they they wanted to eat the food to like Oh, wait. It's da'as. Yeah. It's da'as. Yeah. It's a da'as. So, it was the food that would bring them knowledge. But why did they want that knowledge? What was that knowledge for? It's the nachash, right? Who convinces Chava that this is going to make her like she they know they're in the image of God. But this is going to make you godlike. This is going to make you godlike. Um this is going to make you all powerful, but they were embracing the wrong kind of power. Right? And it was the power. Yeah. It was the pink suit they were going for. Um not an integrated power. And that's like they ate it too early. They would have been able to when they had matured to the point that their da'as was online. And you know, when we say da'as, when we talk about this word, um it's really you know, there's different parts of our brain. Um we always talk in in chassidus we talk about moach shalit al a lev, that the the mind rules over the heart, right? Um which is really that integration between mind and body. Um but we're not talking about like the parts of our brain which are like the amygdala, which is like that part of our brain which is about survival and um instinct and like the stuff that I just like need to do to like the fears or the blockages or the part where I feel like I'm not enough and like those parts that sort of sometimes hijack our higher awareness. The das that we're talking about is that prefrontal cortex. I was just going to say the prefrontal cortex. >> cortex, which if I'm talking to teenagers here Girls definitely memorize this. you are in the process of building your prefrontal cortex right now. I think they've now realized that a person doesn't really develop their prefrontal cortex entirely till about 23. So it's not even like >> It's in development stage. >> It's in development stage, which is so important cuz right now all the information that you're getting is is like you're absorbing it and then it's going to be it's becoming integrated. To come into a state of maturity is that when that information takes hold in such a way that it changes you. Um that your body responds differently to that information cuz we we can know that this thing is really bad for us but we're still doing it. >> going to do it. Like because somehow, you know, there's a great story of the the Friediker Rebbe, the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe. And um he went to the doctor. And in those days like everyone smoked. It was like the doctor was smoking. >> Right. Everyone smoked. It was like and there were just early studies coming out that were saying that So the Friediker Rebbe smoking and this doctor smoking and the Friediker Rebbe was a very heavy smoker. And the doctor said to him, "You know, there's studies coming out now that they're thinking that it might not be so good for your health." Anyways, at the end of the appointment, the doctor offers the Friediker Rebbe a cigarette. No way. I mean [laughter] because this was such new informa- And the Friediker Rebbe said "I don't smoke." Wow. And like that's das. Okay? It's not like "I'm not going to smoke now." No. He got it. He He got it. It's not good for my body. Why would I do it? Wow. >> That's mind body integration. That's when >> This just reminds me of a story of my father. Um Levi Yitzchok Shmuel Yisrael Feibush Aaron David. I lost my father like a year and a half ago. But he grew up at the same time. He's like got They got married in like '69, my parents. And also back then like everybody was smoking. And my my father was with my oldest brother. They were sitting together and he was eating the chick- he was eating like a piece of chicken and he ate like the skin of the chicken. And my father was like, "You know, Shulem, like you shouldn't really eat the skin of the chicken. It's not so healthy. It's very fat." And he's like, "Okay." And then he looked at my father and he's like, "Yeah, but smoking's not so healthy and you do it." And at that moment my father stopped smoking. >> Wow. Like just like that. >> Wow. That That That just like get it. >> I'm also in the middle of reading Undaunted, so Is that what it is? Yes, Undaunted. On the Friediker Rebbe. I didn't get to that story. About the Friediker Rebbe. And and you see what Oh, wow, it's amazing. >> But that like integration like when it hits like and I'll always think about that with my father like how if you know something and then you could stop it, right? And we know so much stuff but till it actually So it's very interesting because we're talking about integration being Shabbos. Mhm. But and you know, as we're contrasting it with the six days a week, but shouldn't we be trying to have that integration during the week also? Absolutely. Absolutely. >> like Moshiach-tic? That's Moshiach. Oh, yeah. That's Moshiach. I think we are we're living in this time. So this like you know, I'm talking to you guys and I think like you're thinking about the pink suit and you're like we're past that. Like we we know that's not it >> power anymore. Like and I think it's such a beautiful thing that you're growing up in a generation that's really so much more in touch with what it means to be a woman. And this really was my journey to challah, to teaching challah was working, you know, we're on shlichus in in um Park Slope, Brooklyn. And um been there for 25 years and the community there is very very liberal and you have a lot of the you know, they they they're not hot pink suit women anymore. But you know, power the the women who are living in men's worlds and this was like the early years of our shlichus and they would come to us and I would be making challah and they would just be so overwhelmed by this idea that like they never cooked anything in their lives. They didn't know how to turn on their ovens. And I would be like, "Come, I'll teach you." And like I I realized that they were like they needed to get back in touch with that part of themselves that knew how to nourish that knew how to nurture and they had lost touch with that in that desire to be in a men's world. >> Right, like the secular feminism was like drawing them away from who they truly wanted to be. >> And it was kind of like we almost had to prove to ourselves that we could do what a man does and we can do it in heels and with a baby on our hip and faster. [laughter] Um but then once we proved that to ourselves >> It shifted. >> We're like, "Okay, but we know we can, but is this what we really want?" And now we're really making choices that are so much more um informed and come from such a deeper place of awareness and what is our power to tap into that Shabbos reality. This is why we're the Moshiach. We are the harbingers of Moshiach as the feeders, right? As the ones who are going to bring us back into Gan Eden. We have to We are the ones who are going to figure out this integration of mind and body. Of what does it mean to be really present? Um and that's the role of the woman in in her fullness of her power is that awareness that when we really show up just being there. Like in the fullness, like our minds and bodies being connected, our hearts being open and just being that container. The vessel. >> vessel for our people. Like just like showing up with everything that we are. Um it's and and I always say I'll never ask a woman what she does. Like you know, people will be like, "What do you do?" Like don't ask a woman what she does. And she could do amazing things. And I'm the first one to say I've done many things after that job that I quit. I went on to be a creative director at a small from ad agency that I helped to found and I was there for many years. I never worked on a Friday ever again. And I took off every summer so that I could be with my kids. And I only worked when they were And I figured out a way to make it work so that I could be creative. And then I went and wrote challah cookbooks and I teach and I do so much stuff. So it's not like we don't do. But you don't ask a woman what she does because it's not about that. It's about who she is. Um No, I recently saw this quote. It was like somebody had shared and it said like, "Stop measuring days by degree of productivity and start experiencing them by the degree of presence." And like I think as like as women it's like, "How can I How can I be productive? How can I be productive?" As girls we're like, "Ah, we're doers. We're We say yes to everything." Yes to everything. We have ambition and we're going and we're going. And then like it comes at the expense of being present and it's so hard. And like when you think about the challah and about the process and then how it's so slow and you can't just like make challah in 1 minute. Like you realize that like the day that Friday like you had this like aha moment where like We're building something. We're building something and it takes time and the rising and all of that is like making us be more and more present. Right. It's so interesting because it's not just this generation. Like challah's like a generational thing, which means that this wisdom our mothers and they knew this. Yes. But it's funny though cuz what you were saying how like your mother didn't make challah. Like anytime I had a conversation with my grandmother, who's a survivor and everything, we never made challah. Because that served because they were in survival mode, they weren't making challah. So it right, it was a lost art and like we're bringing it back with this like Moshiach energy like with this seventh millennia with being more present and we're so lucky. >> Do you have any stories of this lost art? Like in all your trips around the world? I have a great story for you. Um really that illustrates what we're building. You know, when we build a home because you know, we we talk about a woman is a kallah sabaya, she's the foundation. And I always say it doesn't mean you're the doormat or the floor. Foundation holds everything up. And the foundation never walks away. It's always there and everything is built on that. And the work we do and it's if we're in that process male mode of like um get things done and check them off a list, like we can we're going to be endlessly frustrated for the rest of our lives because the work of nurturing and the work of the woman is constantly being undone and we're redoing it. >> It could be the same thing every single day. Yes, exactly. You make the bed, they sleep in it. You wash the dish, they eat on it. Like everything gets cup like food the most. >> you cooked and you spent all day, 2 seconds later it's gone. So it really we have to get in touch with what we're building. What we're building that is eternal. You know, we we say build a bayis ne'eman b'Yisrael. Like build like some like an eternal structure when you build a home. So what are we doing? So I have this actually incredible story um when I was doing a challah bake in Spain. So you know, have challah will travel. My challah talks have taken me all over the world. It's been such an awesome journey. Always looking for Yeah, you need us. >> So for this one I actually took my husband along cuz I was like, you know, Spain and and he's a history buff, he knows everything and we had over a thousand years of history in Spain. Like How long have we been in America? Like a minute. Um and a thousand years of Jewish life in Spain. Can you imagine how like deeply embedded we were into that culture. Um but the the Inquisition came along and and that they were very thorough. And you go to Spain now and you really don't see signs like you have to dig, but it's all there if you know where to look. Um, so I was doing this holiday bake in um Marbella, Spain in the south of Spain. And I was on my way to Cordoba. And everybody knows Cordoba, right? Cord- or Cordoba as they say there. And Cordoba we have this this statue of of Rambam the Rambam studied in the university there this this this history you can actually see things there. So we were on our way to Cordoba and on the highway there was this sign and my husband says, "Oh my gosh, pull over." >> [laughter] >> Great thing to tell your wife when she's driving at 60 miles on the highway. Um, but you know, I I do I pull over and I said, "What?" He said, "Did you see the sign?" It was Lucena and I said, "Yeah, I saw what? Yeah, so what?" Um, and he's like Lucena is a famous city. Well, I did not know and so you guys if you're listening to this and you're like, "Well, what's Lucena? I never heard of anything there." Guys, this was my education and um we pull in and he starts telling me this Lucena was once a whole Jewish city. Like there was Jews everywhere in Spain and they affected every part of the culture. They were up at the top of the you know, government and with the kings and the but there was this one town that was entirely Jewish and it actually had the biggest yeshiva in the whole world at the time. Um, they had like over a thousand students in this yeshiva and they came from all over the world. So this was like a very very famous town but of course I never heard of it. Um, but my husband was all excited and he's like, "Ooh, let's go in and see what we can find there." And we're driving in this charming town and we're driving through the roads and there's nothing. There are so many churches. Oh my. Nothing that can indicate that there was once Jewish life. And um we're really disappointed and we're about to head out and um we're like, "Okay, we'll stop and say some tohilim, you know, for all the people who were here." And then we see a sign. This little sign we could have missed it on the side and it says Jewish cemetery. And there was an arrow and we start we hop back in the car we start driving up this winding hill. We get to the top of the hill and there is this gated cemetery this little tiny cemetery. And we're peeking through the gates and it's amazing like you could see it was like beautifully kept. We couldn't get in. It was locked and we're like shaking the gates and we're like, "No." And suddenly we hear this woman calling from the bottom of the hill and she's screaming, "Jews! Jews!" So it's Spanish? And we're like, "What did she just say?" And we're like, "Jews! Jews!" And um we're like, you know, we're froze. [laughter] And then we see this like lovely blonde woman she's running up and it's like 110°. She's running up the hill and she has this big ring of keys and she opens the gate for us and she lets us in. >> [sighs] >> And she starts like excitedly and her and my husband are both geeking out over like, "Do you know who this is? The Ritham this is like and like the these names these names of like these huge Tommy the Hahamim that like we still study till today the Rishonim and um she's like so excited and I'm looking at her and you know, I don't know what to say. She doesn't look at Jewish, you know, and she's speaking Spanish. Um and she introduced herself to us her name is Anna and I'm like, "Anna like what's your connection with this like you're so excited." And she was so happy to see us. It was like you could think we were the king and the queen that came like she was so excited we were there. And I'm like, "Anna why what's it you and the Jewish cemetery and what's your connection?" Um so she shared her story with us. And Anna grew up in Lucena and her mother did her grandmother did her great great grandmother like literally as far back as their records go which is really far back. And she tells us that they had a lot of weird customs in Lucena and she just kind of never questioned because like she didn't know anything else until she went away from home for her first year of college. It was the first time she had really been away from home and it was her first weekend away from home and she was feeling really homesick and she um she turned to her roommate she said, "You know, at home I bake bread with my mom." And she's like, "Can we bake bread together and I'll feel Wait, it gets even better I promise. She's like, "I feel like it's home." And her roommate was like, "Fun, homemade bread yes." So they they start putting together this dough and after the dough comes together um Anna reaches into the bowl and she pulls off a piece of dough and she throws it into the little toaster oven and she burns it. >> She's doing a frasha. She had no idea and her her roommate says to her she's like, "Anna, what did you just do?" She's like, "I don't know. Doesn't everyone do this when they make bread?" [laughter] >> She's like, "You know, I really don't think anyone does this." >> [gasps] >> So she calls her mom and she's like, "You know, what is that thing we do when we bake bread?" And her mom says, "You know, I do it because grandma did it but I have no idea." So she calls her grandmother and she's like, "What that thing we do?" And her grandmother says, "You know, I don't know." She says, "But when I was a little girl I used to bake bread with my grandmother and we always did that and one day I asked her. I was like, "Grandma, why do we rip off this piece of dough?" And her grandmother said, "It's just something the women in our family have always done. Hush. We don't speak about it." And that was that. But of course for Anna that was not that and she went straight to Google and she got chabad.org. She discovered that this weird little custom Wow. >> was an ancient Jewish practice and it's called the >> Marranos? Like is that They were conversos. Yeah. They were keeping Judaism secretly. You know, she told me then and like I'll never forget her face like she had tears running down her face like telling me the story. She said I I she's like I understood then that like my mother's my grandmother's my great grandmother's they were willing to risk everything. Like they were willing to risk everything to pass this secretly down to their daughters. Like why? Like this is not just some weird little superstitious thing that they were doing in the kitchen. Like hey this is the way we do it. They if they were found out like everything would be gone. Like my early great grandmother like they would they they were risking their lives. She's like, "I needed to understand like what is this thing?" What's challah? >> What is challah? What is this thing that Jewish women are doing? Why is it so important that they pass it down to the next generation? What what were they keeping alive? Why did they want to keep this alive? So she started studying and she was in the process of going through conversion. She's since converted. Wow. >> said, "I want I want to do this mitzvah with my daughter. I want to say the bracha with her like and I want to teach her and I want to carry this forward because we're building something that is eternal. And they kept it alive so that one day I could in the 21st century I could build something. Um and you know, it's not building towers and architecture that you know, it's building something eternal in our home just by showing up by doing that messy work that is undoes itself but like by showing up by doing it with like the fullness of our being like the food is energy the energy we put into it gets transformed into energy. >> Israel or maybe it's just like Europe where like calories are energy. Yeah. You know, like Which is what they are kilojoules. It's energy it's it's measures of energy that's what they >> it is for the first time and they like looked at the back of something they're like, "It's energy?" I'm like, "Yeah." Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love that you're saying that. I feel like we're so disconnected from that idea that we're supposed to be taking in energy from the from the rest of the world and integrating that into us. Like this is this memoir that I'm in the middle of reading right now I'm literally learning which is literally about the idea that why do we have to why are we built this way that we need to be constantly feeding ourselves because we're supposed to be taking all these lower life forms all the materials of this earth and bringing it into ourselves and elevating and this is what we do as women. We take the raw materials of creation and we like weave it together. >> We build it in our bodies and then we give forth something. So when we say that the woman is the Mekabel the like the we're like the ones who receive we're not like passive. Like showing up and being present is not passive. It's like the most powerful act you could do is like really showing up like if you ever >> kind of do. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's a doing that comes from me. Wow. >> That's like it's like doing and like everything we do in life we could do amazing things but it always comes from that place of showing up with the fullness of ourselves of being really present and aware. That's our power. >> [laughter] >> I saw a rant recently where somebody was ranting. Who decided to take warm fluffy delicious challah and swap it for hard sourdough that you need to cut with a machete? I'm curious what you think. Does challah need to be challah or can challah be sourdough? Okay, that's such a good question. >> I'm in the middle of battling this. Yes, it's I think it's a good I think it's a question that's really important that speaks to the core >> sure if it was going to like offend you cuz I'm like here's the challah queen how can I talk about sourdough? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, challah with like these braided loaves that and and that's what challah's kind of become in our in our mind. But challah looked very different depending on where you were in the world. I have a whole section of my cookbook of challahs from around the world. So, if you lived in Iran, you know, in ancient Persia, if you lived in in Morocco or Yemen or Bukhara, your challah looked very different. There's some really cool challahs. But they didn't look like the challah This is like Eastern European like once flour started to be really refined. So, first of all, that's what the challah that we call challah. But the word challah comes from the idea of taking off a piece of dough. That gift that we used to give to the cohen in the Beit Hamikdash, incidentally, we are now the cohanim. Um and the work of the woman, the three mitzvahs of the woman, including challah, challah is the carbon. And we are the last ones to do carbon. We are the last ones, the last bastion of Torah with a mikvah. We are the last ones to do the work of the cohanim in the Beit Hamikdash. The Shabbat candles that we light is the menorah. It's the way of bringing light and transforming the ambience. The three things that we do as women are literally a translation of the work that the cohen did in the Beit Hamikdash that we are doing in our homes creating a place for Hashem's presence to rest. So, powerful work we're doing. This challah that we take off, it's challah because we take it off with a bracha and with attention. That's what makes it challah. If you do that with your sourdough, then that's >> That's challah. >> Okay. But a little caveat. Okay. >> [laughter] >> Because there's there's a reason this is bothering you. And there's a reason that this is bothering like there's a reason this because it's the same bread you're eating during the week. And the thing with challah that's so special is that it's different. It is. >> Is that it's special. It doesn't look like your >> toast. Right. And >> that. And there has to be there has to be a way You see, I get very emotional when I talk about challah. Um >> [clears throat] >> there has to be a way to make that sourdough different than ordinary bread. So, I'm very into that. Like and we went through a trend of like, you know, people doing colorful tablecloths or really cool table settings um or serving food that wasn't traditional. So, like ditch the gefilte fish and serve tuna tartare. Yeah. Okay. So, I'm all for like the modern, but at the same time, there's something that like the smell of challah means Shabbat. And the white tablecloth has so much meaning. Like everything we put on the And by the way, the braided six strands and six strands is 12 strands. That's the 12 and we sing this in Oh, the lechem mishneh. Lechem hapenim. the lechem hapenim in the Beit Hamikdash, the 12 strands is the 12 shvatim. We're bringing it all together. So, there's so much meaning and intention in everything we put on the Shabbat table and in the tradition that you don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. So, like yes, serve healthier challah. I'm all for it. And by the way, I serve spelt challah every week. My challah is made with spelt flour every week because my family just loves how they feel after and it tastes delicious. You No one ever knows. I love to just surprise the guests like, "By the way." And everyone's like, "No." It is. It's spelt, but you wouldn't know. It tastes just like challah. And it you want it still to be special. So, if you are doing sourdough for Shabbat, make it a little different. Like if you're scoring it, if you're scoring it, like if you're making it yourself and you're scoring, you're like creating the different cuts in the images, I don't know, maybe make an image in it that's like only for Shabbat. Like do a spec like take a little extra time, make it extra beautiful. Um I also will say that you can braid sourdough. Not the sourdough that you're So, what you're talk When we talk about sourdough, we just like we talk about challah, we talk about a braided loaf. It's like when you talk about you say Kleenex, you mean a tissue, right? It's like we like we we the brand becomes the thing. So, um when we say sourdough, we're talking about a rustic loaf, which is a very weekday kind of bread. But the idea of sourdough is wild yeast, which means we're just giving it more time to develop. We're not using commercial yeast. You can make a braided challah that looks exactly and tastes like challah with using starter. with using starter. Um okay. I'm going to try that this week. >> Yeah. So, there are ways to have really, really healthy challah that still feels like challah. And even if you want to do the rustic sourdough loaf, like find a way to make it a little extra special. Maybe do something about the parsha when you score it. Or like, [snorts] you know, write the word Shabbat in like likavod Shabbat. Like when people uncover like you know when you uncover the braided loaf and everyone's like Right. So pretty. It like means something special. Try and find a way to do that with your sourdough and and you'll inte Right. That's the integration. I love it. This is amazing. This has been an amazing episode. Yes. Thank you for coming. If you have to like sum this up in one line, like what's your last message for the girls? Uh you are the front line. Like you are the future. The world the future I've seen the world the future of the world and it's feminine. I don't know, they have t-shirts like that, right? But that is the mekubalim have been telling us this for years. The future is feminine. Mashiach will come when the feminine waters rise. And we are rising right now. I called my book Rising for a We are rising into the fullest awareness of who we are as women. Embrace it. We're not meant to be men. We do better when we're women. Like those things that make us feminine, that's where our power is. Lean into it. That's the real leaning in. Lean into your power as a girl. Like those things like don't let anyone tell you that a girl can't do it because what we can do from that place of being a girl, from showing up with the femininity, with our awareness, with our sensitivity, our that that that being able to see another person, um that's so powerful. That's so beautiful. And lean into that. Embrace what it means to be a woman. Figure out what it means to be a woman if you don't know. Like there's so much in Chassidus and Kabbalah and there's so much to learn today about what it means to be a woman and embrace it, celebrate it, and together we will bring Mashiach. Wow. That was gorgeous. Thank you so, so much. >> Yay. Thank you for having me. This was so much fun.