Prof. Eugene Kontorovich: Annexation, The Trump Plan & the New Middle East

hello and thank you for joining me today to discuss the so called annexation plans being considered by Israel and the Trump administration I'm professor Eugene Carter overture professor of constitutional international law at George Mason University Scalia Law School and the director of its Center for the Middle East and international law you've certainly read in the newspapers about this plan this idea that Israel will annex all or parts of the West Bank and we're hips talk about what this means in international law what this means for Israel's relations with the Arab world now as with so many things in this conflict starting with the West Bank the 1967 borders of Israel the name that is used almost universally now for this the word that is used fundamentally is fundamentally inaccurate about what is being contemplated so in the newspaper this is being called an annexation plan there is no annexation plan what is annexation we are accurate computer now so you can google it the dictionary definition of annexation in international law you can look at the Oxford encyclopedia of international law is when a country forcibly takes the territory of another country by our by force and makes it its own what this is not an annexation because there is no territory of another country of another sovereign state being taken the areas of Judea and Samaria also known as the West Bank are not the territory of another sovereign country not just in the view of Israel but in the view of the United States of both both parties and of almost all of Europe why because Israel liberated this territory from 1967 from Jordan which had occupied it itself from Israel in 1948 so this was not Jordan's territory no country recognizes Jordan's territory when Israel took it and since then it has been under Israeli control continuously there is no State of Palestine not recognized by the US not recognized by president drop not recognized by President Obama not recognized by almost every country of the European Union which are not big friends of Israel so there is no state this is people say this is like Russia taking Crimea from Ukraine it's exactly not like that because of course Crimea undisputedly belonged to Ukraine and these territories on the mistakable we do not belong to any other state and I would argue Israel actually has the strongest claim to already having sovereignty over them so this is not a land grab this is not annexation there's a lot of other mistaken ideas about this which I want to just briefly dispel that I think just entirely untrue and are based on an unfamiliar 'ti with the plan and then but first let me say a few words about what the plan actually what the plan actually entails what is being contemplated okay first a little bit of history the entire area where Israel is and the area around it the West Bank and Gaza they were all part of one thing up to 1948 they were all part of what was called mandatory Palestine which was one of the numerous mandates administered by the League of Nations this one to become a national home for the Jewish people there was no West Bank there was no this was not there was no subunit of Palestine called the West Bank this was not a division a boundary that had any prior historical demographic topographical basis so at the end of the mandate Israel declares independence in the Land of Israel in Eretz Israel in mandatory Palestine this was not because of the United Nations resolution 181 which this was a which which suggested that Israel be cut up into tiny little pieces it will declare independence as a act of self-determination of the Jewish people they helped by the United Nations and indeed the United Nations does not raise a finger when all of the surrounding country's invaded it and they invaded it to prevent the creation of any Jewish state in this territory between the river and the sea between the Jordan River in the Mediterranean the Arab countries were partially successful because they managed to take over some of this territory they took over an area in the southwest of mandatory Palestine known as Gaza Gaza and an area the eastern the wardro big large eastern central trunk of the territory which came to be known as the West Bank it came to be known as the West Bank by Jordan which was the country that occupied it and confident you can see the name comes from the fact that it was under Jordanian occupation for the Jordanians this area was on the west bank so this area the West Bank was under which was just the Jordans name for it came under Jordanian occupation and Jordan occupied it until 1967 when of course in the six-day war Israel liberated all of these areas including Eastern Jerusalem the old city and the Temple Mount which was all previously under Jordanian occupation when the Jordanians occupied it in 1948 they ethnically cleansed and expelled every single Jew some background okay so Israel retakes this territory in 1967 some part of this territory it immediately applied Israeli law to that is to say what is being contemplated now is nothing new it is basically a slight expansion of what Israel immediately did and I think they were all very happy especially people involved with projects inspire and H are very happy this happened in 1967 Israel applied Israeli law and jurisdiction this is the action that they're now contemplating doing in other territories they applied that to Eastern Jerusalem including the old city and where of course is based and two surrounding small sections of the West Bank they said we're putting this under direct Israeli law so it will be ruled under the walls of Israel they did not do and as a result Jews almost become a foreign city the old city is a place we can go we can study and it can be built it can be developed because it's under a regular Israeli law they did not apply regular Israeli law to the rest of the West Bank or Judea and Samaria as it's known in Hebrew why not not because Israel did not believe any of this territory was theirs that they had a sovereign claim to indeed the law which was passed in 1967 allowing for the extension of Israeli law that enabled that facility extension Israeli law to Jerusalem and surrounding areas specifically said that Israeli law can be applied by the government when it decides to any part of Eretz Israel which of course includes Judea and Samaria Judea and Samaria is the center of its Israel so they didn't apply this more broadly at the time because it was thought that peace was right around the corner that with their extraordinary defeat in the six-day war the Arab countries would sue for peace and in negotiations significant parts of this territory far from all of it but some of it will be put back under some kind of Arab control so what's the point of going through the process of applying is really long and legally integrating this in the Israeli domestic legal system it was going to be have to be then cut apart again why glue it together and unify it I figured I have to cut it apart shortly now of course the Arabs met Israeli peace overtures with the famous three knows no to negotiations no peace no to everything and they've been saying no ever since in the early 90s Israel started negotiating directly with the Palestinians with the possible idea of turning some of this territory over for a Palestinian state and the past Indian said no twice under President Clinton's watch they said no to bush they said no to secretary Kerry under Obama and they have rejected a state in the meantime the territories are still governed by the same administrative system that was set up as a temporary measure in 1967 they're governed by the military that's under a system of military Walker's that was supposed to be temporary and the system of military wall was never thought to be a normal system for people to live in downtown since 1967 Jews have returned to these territories which have been historic Jewish sites from which other had been expelled in 1948 by the Jordanians they've built flourishing towns and over 400,000 Jews live in these places but the growth of these communities and their normal lives have been greatly stunted by the fact that they're not that they're not administered by the same legal system that administers all of Israel so for example property law what's the property of all that applies in this territory well the military doesn't have a basis for property law does never bought a property law does its disposal so just like we're gonna use with the Jordanians used which was Ottoman law combined with some tradition Jordanian law do any of you know a good Ottoman property oh ah me neither so building anything a school a road which is gonna be used in benefit Palestinian population also all of it becomes a 20-year of a Boreas process that greatly stunts the growth of these communities that's why we see in even just in the Jewish neighborhoods of Eastern Jerusalem including the old city there are now as many people basically more people than in all of Judea and Samaria because the growth is greatly stunted by this temporary legal limbo that has turned out to be permanent as we have seen many times in the Middle East nothing turns out to be as permanent as the temporary environmental laws doing upon there's a whole it's a it's a system of government that was never intended to be durable and Israel was pressured by the international community to keep this temporary system in place because the international community much of it is of the opinion that it's a crime for Jews to live anywhere in this territory that is a war crime this is the only context in which any country has ever said in which an international community of the UN has ever said then a group living an ethnic group of people living in a particular area is a crime it's not a crime for anyone else to wield any wealth but for Jews to live in Judea and communities it's a crime and we want the Jews gone if there if there's ever in state the international community says we agree with the Palestinian demand a unique an extraordinary and illiberal demand that the Palestinian state start off pre cleansed of Jews so all the Jews who live that you're gonna have to take most of them out anyone so don't apply your a lot of these areas because it can I have to unapplied anyone don't bother and the non application it was really long became a symbol a token a car of the notion that the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the historic homeland is some kind of normal or acceptable part of peace process the Trump administration has some great moral clarity illness and there's a we're not against a Palestinian state we believe in a Palestinian state we have a vision for a Palestinian state that Palestinians but people living settlements are not a problem to peace Israel has a 20% haired minority we have Jews living in an Arab stay in a Palestinian state if it's truly peaceful and in any case just as it would be it's unacceptable don't think about it's immoral to talk about peace based on expelling our students from their homes it is unacceptable to talk about peace based on expelling Jews from their homes this is not gonna be the recipe no Jews to move and as a result there's no reason not to integrate these places fully in the legal system of Israel so those are the two main reasons the regularizing the wives of these people are not having the Palestinians be able to hold that four hundred and sometimes in Jerusalem there and we go limbo because of their refusal to make peace and signaling and making clear that the expulsion of Jews is not going to happen it was tried in Gaza to make peace a very disastrous results and it's a moral from first principles ok so that's the background what is the plan what is the end the idea is not that Israel is gonna take over all the West Bank the Palestinian Authority runs about half of the West Bank and in Gaza they run through the mosque the almost all the Palestinians the great majority of Palestinians live under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority which makes the laws for them which governs them makes their educational curriculum inciting terror none of that is going to change none of none of this plan applies to the Palestinians it's not about the Palestine it's about regularizing the lives of Israelis it's to take the about 30% of the West Bank where the Jewish communities are and just apply Israeli law to them it's not a geographic thing they're not all in one place it's a jurisdictional thing say these places that Israel already governs through a military commander Israel now does govern the regular old-fashioned way directly through the Knesset through the to Israel's parliament the that's the plan what does it do the Palestinians not if they did not know Palestinian is gonna be moved from their home no Palestinian is going to be subject to Israeli Authority was not who was not previously already under Israeli afford no Palestinian is gonna be governed by Israel as a result of it no Palestinian is going to drive through a checkpoint as a result of this if they didn't read about in the papers the Palestinians would not know about it except perhaps because it will greatly facilitate construction of new industries and roads which will also be used by the Palestinians and great have great benefit for them this is about normalizing the lives of Israelis it's about doing through the Jewish community is doing to Frost and she will and they are gonna run what was already done to Jerusalem to allow them to flourish and saying no to explosions at the same time Israel says we're prepared to negotiate with Palestinians for peace as we have always been prepared but now based on the Trump this vision which has been endorsed by many Arab countries so it's not about the Palestinians it doesn't hurt the Palestinians except by rejecting their racist demand of an ethnically free cleansed state now many people say this is a mistake because it's going to antagonize the Arab world Israel has had in the past five years extraordinary improvements in its relations with the Arab states it has conducts open diplomatic visits to Gulf states sends delegations has official meetings of the levels of foreign ministers and official diplomatic presence and numerous Gulf states in the UAE in mom even Sudan its archenemy from 1967 were the three noes of Khartoum came from now has open relations with Israel has direct flights from Israel Israel can fly over these countries Israeli airplanes previously on flying to India or Asia had to go all the way around the Arabian Peninsula and of course around Iran now those countries a lot of flights that Coast got a lot of cooperation business is booming and there's basically a rapprochement a warming of relations between Israel and the Arab states that is unprecedented the Arab states now have said the Palestinian issue is not going to be at the focus of our relations with Israel now some people say that this move is gonna harm all that it's gonna undermine now this is not true and it's kind of a boy who cries wolf story the same arguments that there's going to be violence there's going to be a big diplomatic reactions gonna break down relations with the aerbook where the exact same arguments that were made by critics of the trumpet administration's plan to recognize Jerusalem the United Jerusalem include I the areas Israel already put under Israeli law that were taken and retaken in 1967 to recognize drew that that are those parts of Jerusalem as I saw the sovereign capital of Israel moving the embassy recognizing the ghulam which was also put under Israeli control in 1967 the all of those actions were said to by critics they were going to blow up the Middle East I testified in Congress about the Jerusalem is silent Congress about the Quran and those were the questions isn't was going to inflame the Arab Middle East it's going to set the Middle East on fires what people would say those people were wrong the Middle East was not set on fire it was not even made a little bit warm the Arab world has moved on it and indeed the boom in Israel's with the Arab states has happened exactly during this process mostly during the past three years trump administration where we saw the recognition of other parts of territories israel took retook in 1967 as sovereign israel territory this third time is not going to make it any worse indeed the area the Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria are far less important to Arab States than Jerusalem which has a religious connotation of some kind of the Temple Mount this is not Jerusalem it's far less important this is areas where no Arabs live as Jews live and the change in their legal status from one mode of Israeli administration to another it's not gonna mean anything to the arab arab states because it's important to understand why the arab states have improved relations with israel there's a number of reasons but none of them are based out of some kind of development of Zionism or appreciation of Israelis as people or Israeli culture cultural exchange they probably still don't like Jews many of them but nonetheless they act based on national self-interest I nobody likes anybody except themselves and countries act based not on feelings but on self-interest and the Arabs and the Israelites and the Israelis have a massive joint interest in resisting Iran for Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states Iran is a complete existential threat Iran is launching missiles into Saudi Arabian territory constantly through Vienna these countries are under attack they cannot back down from the fight with with Iran and who is the only country fighting Iran now seen a bunch of suspicious explosions in Iranian nuclear plants who is fighting with nothing less its Israel this was a critical ally also these countries there in the Middle East they need to diversify their economies that are based on oil they need partners with tech-savvy local partners whom they can do 21st century business and they look around and they see that Israel and they're being held back by a 53 year old conflict which they don't really care about so it's their essential interest things they can get from Israel benefits from Israel that that is what bringing them together with Israel and none of that is gonna be changed by the change in how Israel governs territories that it already governs so it's not gonna hurt relations with the Arabs it will surely antagonize the Europeans but it's important to point out the Europeans or over at the copy European countries that will be most critical of this are not countries that think it's okay for Israel to govern these territories the way they govern them now that gets countries who think they do wrong now governs them in a way that is a violation of international law denies Palestinians their rights so it's not going to be that if Israel says this is true or is in some sense the Europeans will be upset but if they don't the offense will say Oh fine just continue your illegal occupation in their view so this is something's been waiting for 53 years it's been delayed too long and it's an act it's completely lawful under international law because Israel has no other that this is not the territory of any other country and as I explained in other videos that you can find online Israel actually has the best sovereign claim to this territory this is Israeli sovereign territory if it is anyone's sovereign territory and of course we can't connect your own territory that doesn't make any sense you just change the mode in which it is governed by having a territory or a state this is basically this is basically that kind of that kind of distinction so it's an act that whose time has come and it is a necklace justified that will not harm the Palestinians and if anything will break the dynamic that has really stalled the peace process which is the time dynamic with the Palestinians know that every time they say no to a peace deal the new offer will be better so why not always say no if you know the offer that you say no to the gist becomes the floor for future negotiations and one thing the Trump administration here saying to the Palestinians almost no national independence movement ever gets offered a state about the Kurds not the Catalans almost never happens you guys have been offered at four times and you keep saying no hoping and getting a better offer next time that dynamic is over saying that was consequences and the offer is gonna be worse next time so but this is not it's not gonna harm the wives of into the Palestinian people and it's an act of the law and justice okay thank you so much take care