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Zionism #4: Extremism within the Satmar world isn't sanctioned by their Rebbe - R Yoel's letter
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okay so we're on page I think sadik is
that
right yes bottom paragraph
okay let's go
on so is has written to this fellow so
far that be honest with
yourself you know ER remember that if
was if you if it was your own wward son
you would bend the other way and number
two he says that it's not bending the
other way just having a ro and that the
had for every
Jew and therefore he Tau have for every
Jew and to to live with that and
yesterday's year we we learned that that
um there's different uh ideas in
movements in kirov including uh you know
popular organizations Etc you know is it
um
is getting a you know mileage out of
what you're doing etc etc so that was
yesterday's discussion now let's let's
now let's
say yesterday spoke about the other K
organizations now he speaks
about however bottom of page
91 he says all of the discussion how kir
of organizations in general as a
generality deal with kir is not relevant
to
the the way he approaches being
Jews because these
activities there isn't of prohibition as
the Satur claimed there is so that's
right away off the bat he tells you
there
isn't there isn't God forbid a of
conceding you know it's like um it's not
pro prohibited but uh you know we're
going to we're going to really we should
be learning and we're going to take some
time off to do some K so the r said the
r says that's not the view of K of of
Outreach Al
and there isn't any conceding even uh
the
slightest me is the
slightest partic particular detail that
seems to be totally ancillary not
important of enacted by the by the
rabbis by the by the by
the we're going on to
page and the reason again he just
repeats the nuda the reason why it would
be allowed to concede on a leniency
that's non significant is for the
benefit of Judaism and that this again
contributes to your point mha uh
contrary to your point I should
say on the
contrary according to the opinion of the
and that's a that's a beautiful dougl
emphasis there is
a you have an
obligation to do K turn please y please
turn off your your your your your mute
yourself please it's all right it's all
right so theb
says says that the re in Outreach is
that there's a to go and reach out to
someone else
writes before I will explain explain
this I must give a a short preface
yes just like the feeling of love for
another
Jew if it if it leads to things that are
contrary
to this proves
it's not true love of another
Jew rather it's the feeling and the
expression of the negative
side he says the exact same thing is
what's happening when one claims I'm
being I'm doing this because I'm a
zealot I'm a Cano Cano
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this if if we were to if we want to
concede on a
detail in order to fulfill
this that's not aoi what's
aoi aoi means what's a I'm not conceding
on an
aoda if the attitude of K is that you're
conceding on on aota for the greater
benefit you're not a
kanoi you follow the logic or not got I
got to make sure you you get the logic
because
before is saying that think about it
this is not Cano this approach that we
mentioned before is not zealotry on the
contrary it's the opposite of zeelot tre
it's
conceding this is the greatest
proof this type of zealotry that you're
displaying to hate a Jew who reaches out
to another Jew is
not it's rather a feeling of the bad
side of the evil side
what is true can right cuz they're
always going around saying
we're
forem we're like P says you know
is to put effort with all kinds of
effort to do
whatevers that's that's Cano one second
his can is to do what hasem wants even
if your feeling is it's not it it's it's
it's not the right thing to do when you
put yourself outside and you do it
because hasem said so you know you're a
Cano for the words of hasem even though
it goes against your grain then you're a
true Cano yes yes
sir so um I want to I don't know maybe
take exception or
um go a little deeper into this
anytime you take a uh let's say an
extreme approach to one
thing anytime many times right you are
going to be you're going to be M on
something else for
example the from while you famously
responded to somebody who said why are
you so make on chabas he says I'm not
make on chabas I'm m
NE right famous V yeah you do you you
have there's a
balance and and if you go to the extreme
on one it means you're going to you know
be
less focused on what detracts from that
so therefore can finish your thought
therefore therefore when he
says aoi is going to
beo on everything thing I think that the
the natural history of things is that
you can't that that you know
no is what he means whatever is in your
purview as what God wants that's what he
means by
everything what whatever you consider to
be what Hashem wants that's considered
the the Cano by
you by you he's not saying that he's not
saying that this is a truism for every
person like you said for salic that was
his view of kis and and and and others
disagreed just the opposite because for
them they had another view of
canis but
but the underlying
principle is is the same in in all and
and including what R is saying he's
saying is if you're a for theem whatever
your view of darem is then you put aside
your feelings so he's telling this
the if you're a real Ki put aside put
aside your personal feelings towards
the now now of course the SAT will argue
it's not my personal feelings it's what
God wants I'm commanded to hate I'm so
so so already addressed that earlier
probably going to address it later on
that you're making a mistake I'm sorry
that there's no there's
no all that is not included yeah you
understand so that goes back to a
different argument that goes back to a
different what' you
say is
not yeah yeah so so so that we discussed
that I don't want to repeat just you
know CU we have to go on so so you know
we had a long discussion about that that
you can wear yamak with a beard and and
everything else and and you think you
know and and and you really don't know
yeah you know shabas you're supposed to
keep you know so that's right so their
view their view excuse me the's view is
it they don't go they don't delve in
they say look you're living in you you
know what the you what you know what
chabas is okay and you're letting buses
go and tell shabas you're a
rusher
he I maybe he learned wrong
inab maybe didn't go to a to a to AA to
a b medish maybe he's maybe they just I
don't know if it's true they they found
that uh one of the people's wives is
involved with yoska I don't know if it's
true it's not true maybe it was a lie
but for the elections my point is
there's so so many unknowns
that to delegitimize someone be because
you know it's a simple fact and you're
going da against it I'm not saying it
doesn't exist by the way I'm not saying
it doesn't exist I'm not saying that the
m is RA
see and not justad butab is and it'll
come out here in the letter the m is RA
not the person and that's really the
Crux of the Matter Where where the Kim
they say that the person is RA not evil
not just the act and what does kabad say
and those that follow that philosophy
not that the person is
evil the ACT is
evil so when we talk about Cano the
question is is there is the Cano against
the act or is the Cano against the
person H you wanted to say
something yeah a comment and a question
um it seems to me that there's a
particular
y that that so many of us have to want
to to to to say circumstances require me
to be above the law outside the
law and uh uh and uh that and I think
that he's sort of putting his finger on
that there's a z in in this week's para
that the brings it says that that about
Lo that Lo went uh
went
with is the name of a
certain is the name of another is the
name of another it occurs to
me perhaps
this tendency towards
Canal is the
of who who has this potential that we
see by by uh by by sedom of sort of
taking things out of context being
willing to do something something Usher
and evil uh in order to avoid some other
uh in order to avoid some to fulfill
another kind of principle I hear you and
the question I want to ask the word
Kan uh I I I assume it comes from
lanina is it is it is it a term that's
in the Torah itself or in the T
itself of course by P
of
course rash brings for theor
but
is that is the source
for okay let's go
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on oh sure sure sure I'm sorry page
sadic B 90 two we're now at the um we
are at the third second paragraph let's
read says to to to our to
our even when you explain to them very
well
and you show them
sources that
sometimes certain
conditions he says you could find that
that you're allowed
to the commentary say that in certain
situations you're allow to be of Sinners
of
Israel
nevertheless they they attack with all
shouts screams of of
disgrace okay I need you to to put on
your your your your thing mute yourself
please
please is who put on your thing
please um they they they disgrace the
people even though shown explicit
laws it's not that they argue you know I
have a different understanding of this
particular
law these is these denim that I'm
referring to says are clear that you
cannot interpret any other
way he says they scream without any com
sense without any you know use of of
of and they
say sh sh is
R they say and you guys hear this you
are from the cat the group The Cult Yi
of you come from the S the the
angel of death and poison and all that
we won't let go and we won't allow you
to
infiltrate and they say to the person
who says look let me show you that
you're even even you're allowed to be of
someone in a certain situation etc etc
even though he's
a by the way what what is he generally
alluding to AB to the concept of
people who are considered in the
category
of that by the way is not just a
thing brings in this TR and and
other much discussion and many many in
and people who write respons
there's so is alluding to saying even if
we were to show the the that this person
is in the
G we
says you're allowed to be they say I
don't care I don't want to hear etc
etc what is their only justification and
their
argument it's not fitting for AI to
accept
logic so I don't care about your logic
I'm a in other words you hear the point
it's such AAL Point I've put myself in a
category of being a zealot so therefore
zealotry equals
being makes this point many times I
heard it from him like being stupid a
zealot L to be stupid and ab says that's
not what a zealot is not a stupid not a
fool a stupid means I don't says I don't
want to know
about I don't want to be informed I'm a
he's saying that's not KO don't Bo what
H what don't bother me with the facts My
Mind Is Made Up exactly well said right
to the
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point so
by the the foundation
isn't what drives them is like the like
he said my mind's made up that's it
and in this
detail theim he says are similar in this
detail to the to the Orthodox
organizations that where they go and
they make compromises on
many because of their to hate another
Jew you understand like like like his
said they're they're saying I have OB
you know I have by hating him because
he's a Russia I'm doing what the Ty says
I love him by hating him so they we all
saying that's so absurd and what they're
doing is they are they are conceding on
a detail of T which is an important
detail having true love and care for
another Jew because of their
Cano so what's the difference
saying that we don't need a for now and
later we get a and things like that
conceding that way or conceding another
way or conceeding with your STL and your
pis and your beard and and and hating a
Jew there's no difference in the quality
uh of what's going
on he says a friend of
he once explained to
several how the the style the path the
approach of is according
to without any a of concern of
all regarding
being and
when saw they didn't have what to answer
they they saw that
right because he showed he showed them
clear is the acronym no the commentaries
that you
know they told my
friend all your proof that you bring me
from the open
it's all an expression of the of the
negative
side we're not listen to your arguments
it's all coming from the evil bad side
for and they added quote inish g m l
you're approaching this whole topic of K
and and with scholarship
lus was also a Torah scholar so don't
bring me proof with Scholars and proofs
from that's you know
sophistication sh was a sophisticate
intellectual Torah Jew and look what it
led it led
to a
heresy and he
continues you're purifying a a a a
creature a a a a creeping creature which
is makes you T
it's a famous expression with 150
reasons I'll justify why I sh right
normally times Bas you touch a you
become right the Torah says but I'll
explain you with 150 reasons why you're
allowed to touch the sherids because
he's so intellectual so this s these s
said to this laure that says a friend of
his he said
you are like a like a Jew who's being M
A Sher with 150 reasons
behind this is what hill just said a
moment ago what's going on over here in
this discussion he says is that they
come into the discussion with a preface
with a
predisposition that every
IDE something expit
that doesn't sit well with the the way
they feel their and and want to
be it's
negative it smells the smacks
of and after this
introduction next
page it's contrary to
you're forbidden to make a general
sweeping opinion and statement
about an entire holy
congregation without you know checking
and going to a and having
Witnesses you're forbidden to listen to
prove of someone who's a ker that's what
they say this is all their argument they
say I'm not all to listen to you you
know why you're a CER because anything
that's not is I'm not going to listen to
you so therefore I I discount anything
and everything you
say says what's the question
is what is the foundation the premise
for their
attitude that whatever doesn't
correspond to their feeling
of what's their Source
buddy
seemingly seemingly the is showing you
that it's a clear that you're allowed to
be maybe he's right no but you don't
even give him the the benefit of the
doubt and you don't even entertain it
why because in your mind he's AER so a
is not allowed to listen to AER just
like you're not allowed to listen to
sh and the fact that they say that also
was a scholar
and theen didn't want to listen to his
proofs which he brought from
K to justify
yes says because that's true right he
says that example of is not relevant to
our
situation and and Monday we're going to
learn the difference between the true of
and the on the of Eden
you know he has to you know in a way
it's like so hurtful that he had to me
he has to stoop so low stoop so low and
and and and let's say address this issue
but that's but that's exactly what he
that what he does here because that's
where they're coming
from if you don't address these issues
which you know probably listening you
saying this is like absurd the is like
being because the M of Jews I mean are
you out of your mind yeah that's the way
they think I don't mean when I say they
I I want to make I don't mean everybody
you know what I'm saying this sh the sh
of
the there plenty of s and others that
are not that way yes
y question though this when he wrote
this do you know what year this was
written in I I believe I believe in the
early 80s 80 to 83 I I I think this
written maybe in 83 but some that time
so can you imagine if this was written
in 83 when the rebel was alive correct
was alive yes can you imagine what it
would be if he would write it
today we're we're we're everything that
we're saying now is a h hundredfold you
know
because then there was no right was was
only only other stuff but now it would
be on a whole different level this would
be like for them are you kidding the
biggest zet um I I I have to yes say
that that that's a point well taken
that's right but but but knowing R and I
knew him well he would explain the
difference between
the you understand and and you don't
have to be to understand that because
like I said over and over on our for the
last five
years Count Me You Can Count Me on the
hand okay listen you know I'm not n but
I I I I've been toas and I've been
foring theas there and I see the young
kids by by here they come and I saw them
on the plane you
know it's not sh it's
basically you know we're doing something
wild and crazy to keep to keep it alive
again I'm not saying that's the way it
should be done but that
generally count you can count on the
finger on finger how many people saying
no we don't have to fast anymore and
anyone like that is really an a a a
heretic and Aus and totally out of his
mind but that was a blown up uh uh blown
up issue that David Burger may he be
well live be well brought to the table
in his book against kabad and all that
where he he he sold a bill of goods and
he tried selling it to the
mo who approached me one of the main RAB
RAB
RAB whatever from
the and he came over to me and he said
what's this you know and he got a letter
from from or a call from from from
burger and I told him he believes that
kabad should be banned ostracized
because not eat their not drink their
wine because of M and all that they
believe that the Reb is God and things
like that and and I said that's not the
case it's you know it's definitely not
conventional and I don't agree with it
but but you know and he said yeah don't
worry I we're not going to be doing that
anyway but I just wanted to uh you know
so like I said there's a there
there's there's the concept and
different things but you're right you're
you're right that theim would use this
to fuel their argument if that's what
you're saying y I agree with you you you
follow anybody else uh have any thoughts
or want to say
something okay anyway uh we're going to
go back for those that didn't hear I'm
on the on Monday to uh to a quarter to 3
your time okay so remember that yes Hill
you want to say
something no I just want to wish
everybody a good shabas thank you
everyone should have a great
shabas and only only good thing Z we'll
see you guys byebye take care thank you
good