🎙️Episode 28: The Supreme Court and The Rebbe. With leading national trial lawyer Josh Kahane.

A personalized jersey from David Stern, commissioner of the NBA, a Supreme Court win, and a national basketball tournament. This week with Josh Gahane on Jewish Grit. [music] Welcome to Jewish Grit. this week with Josh Cahain, a nationally renowned attorney and a very, very special Jewish man. Welcome to our podcast. >> Thank you, Robert. Thank you for having me. It's wonderful to be here. >> All the way from >> Memphis, Tennessee. >> Is that in the United States? >> It is. It is a little bit outside of the tri-state area, but still in the United States. Yes. >> Well, thank you so much for making the schle our flight all the way from there. >> It is not at all. And I'm I'm really thrilled to be here. Thank you for inviting me. This podcast is about Jewish grit and thank God you've had a super successful uh law career. Uh been in front of the Supreme Court. >> Yes, sir. >> Fantastic. And so many other interesting things and we'll get to those. But I want to take you back. I want to take you back over the last 25 or 30 years. And I think about a moment where it really took Jewish grit to pull yourself out and to keep your chin up. When I say that, what what memory does it toggle? Uh I I have the wonderful wonderful privilege of representing clients all over the country who believe in me who have confidence in me and and who want me to handle their cases and who send me to states all over the country representing them and it's a wonderful privilege wonderful opportunity but at the same time it does take me away from home a lot and I remember must have been 10 or so years ago uh I was in my room packing up my suitcase getting ready to head out and uh at that time one of my younger daughters came in the room. Uh, and she said to me just straight out, "Why do you why do you have to leave? Why do you have to travel so much?" And I said, "Well, well, you see, this is how how I provide for our family. This is how I take care of you and your brothers and sisters and and mommy, and this is how I I put food on the table." And she looked at me and just straight out said, "Well, if we promise to eat less food, can you stay home a little more often?" And I remember that that struck a real chord. And and I think that probably anybody listening right now might think that I immediately unpacked and said, "Let's go to the playground and let's let's go have fun and let's spend the day together." But I didn't. I finished packing and I zipped up the suitcase. I went over to her. I gave her a big hug and a big kiss and told her how much I loved her. and I went off to the airport to continue on my trip because I I just felt that there was a really important lesson to be taught, a really important lesson about what it takes to be successful, what it takes to have a goal, to have a vision, to have a dream, and to be willing to make those hard decisions, to to dig way down to achieve what you want to achieve and to get to the places that you want to get to. And I wanted her to understand that. I wanted to be able to use that moment as an example, as a teaching example. And several years later, she was getting ready to head off to seminary and to college. And I remember we sat down and we were talking about that, kind of reminiscing. And I said, "Well, you know, let me tell you why I did that. I I want to share that with you." And I didn't get one sentence in when she said to me, "Dad, dad, I I get it. I I understand. I I I completely understand what it is you were saying. I understand what it means to to be committed, what it means to be willing to sacrifice, and what it takes to to do meaningful and wonderful things. And and so that was one of those times where I I felt like I had to dig deep. Every ounce of me wanted to just dump out the suitcase and give her a hug and go go run to BaskinRobins. But I felt like it was really an important moment uh both for me in terms of kind of finding that that inner sense of purpose uh and helping my kids grow which is something that's really important to us. >> Has your definition of success changed? And if so like when you look in the mirror like are you looking at a different success? >> 100%. Uh I kind of feel like it's a moving target. uh what I thought was success when I was 30 years old. When I achieved that and I looked in the mirror, I I realized that wasn't. You know, it was first can I become the youngest partner in my 120-year-old law firm and then can I uh represent clients all over the country and then I realized that that's all wonderful and that's all what I do for a living and that helps people in a very meaningful way to take care of their businesses and their families. But but what am I doing to build my community? So then it was, well, how do I utilize whatever skills God blessed me to have to help build my community? And and I began to work with my wife to do that. But then there are so many people around the world. How can we help them? What can we do to help them grow? And so I feel like it's always a moving target. But I'll tell you that's the way it should be because if it was stagnant, if it was an achievement of a certain goal and then I'm done, there would be no motivation for me to want to continue working on myself, continue honing my craft as a lawyer, continue working hard to build within my community, continue to develop a greater relationship with God and with others because I will have achieved what I set out to achieve. Uh so I hope I never catch up with that Josh Kahane that I'm chasing. I hope that I I really am always looking to to catch him and maybe just tickle his toes occasionally, but I always want to be striving for for something greater and something more. >> Could we talk about your career for a second? When you look back at how many years have you been an attorney? >> About 25. Coming on 25. >> What's your proudest moment? >> I think the easiest and most obvious answer is uh the case that we took all the way up to the Supreme Court. Uh I don't want to bore your listeners about it. Uh but it was during COVID um and as I'm sure you and your listeners know during COVID there was a lot of government infringement on personal rights all kind of under this basic guise of of the protection of of public health. Uh and it it kind of went into all different elements of society whether it was religion whether it was school whether it was offices. Uh one area that really impacted many of my clients was in the world of real estate. I represent many many real estate owners and managers and the center for disease control in Atlanta put in place a moratorum against evictions that tenants were not permitted to be evicted during this period of time even if they did not pay rent uh even if they did not fulfill their obligations under the lease and on the one hand while I'm certainly sensitive to that issue we were in a global pandemic it was a crisis on the other hand there was no relief offered to the owners and managers at the same time uh and client Clients were coming to me and they were saying, "We're we're losing our properties. We're getting foreclosed upon. We have we have no option." And so after client and client and client, we made the decision to go ahead and file a lawsuit and see if we cannot get a court to determine that this was a constitutional violation of rights. We won first at the trial court and then it went up to the sixth circuit court of appeals and then it went all the way up to the Supreme Court where Justice Kavanaaugh uh authored the opinion that in fact the CDC's moratorium was unconstitutional and it was vacated and after that all of the subsequent uh rulings that came out from both federal district courts and the Supreme Court on the way in which the government has or does not have a right to infringe upon constitutional liberties. They all cite to our case, the Tiger Lily case. Um, and it uh it really has become a case that really stands for the premise of what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. I I'll tell you one funny thing. My my oldest daughter, she Shaina, she just began law school this year. Uh she calls me at least every other day to tell me that although she's progressing in her textbook, she has not yet gotten to the Tiger Lily case. I I I don't know that she's going to get to it, but it certainly gives me pride to know that she's looking for it. um and that uh that it's a case that that has significance. And so that's probably my my proudest legal moment. >> What emotionally what did you feel like when when you won? >> So it was it was really interesting. It was the last night of Passover. Um, the ruling came down and of course I did not have my phone with me and so I turned on my phone as soon as the holy day was over and I could see hundreds of missed calls from every news and media outlet all over the world and messages from my office and messages from my colleagues and and I knew something happened and then you get that pit in your stomach like uhoh, what was it? >> Do I even want to open that? >> Well, do I do I want to call anybody back? Do I want to open any email? Um, and I immediately just started opening them and the ruling came down and I I think I started running around our rented bungalow uh down in Orlando and and screaming and uh my whole family joined in the celebration. It was really it was an exciting moment. >> What happens when the when Jewish law cuz I know that you study Torah, I'm assuming. Okay. When that conflicts with with a a case that you have, does that bother you or just I do what I got to do? >> It's difficult. Um, it's difficult. I'll tell you where it's even more difficult, and this is a recent development in my law practice, one that I don't understand. I'll be quite honest with you, on the front end, but a lot of my clients have now begun bringing me to uh to a basin, to a Bethden, Jewish court, where there are rabbis or Tamut scholars who are there advocating positions. I I don't know why I'm there. Um I do my very best to study when I can. I'm I'm a product of a a modern Orthodox yeshiva day school, but but I am by no means a Talmudic scholar and I oftentimes say to my clients, I don't think I'm the right person to be here. Um, but they would like me to be there. And a lot of it is because of those personal relationships that we've built. And so I'm there and I'm thinking secular law and I'm thinking, well, what's the law in New York or what's the law in Florida? What's the law in California? And they're arguing what is the law in Baba Basra or Babakama? and there is a conflict and I'm I'm trying to argue a position that the rabbi on our side of the table is telling me that that hey Josh that's not that's not the that's not the right position. Um and so it does create that conflict. Um I think listen uh the the most important elements of our lives are the relationships we have with God, the relationships we have with our family in the development and the growth towards a greater relationship with God. And that has to be paramount. And we have to always remember that, you know, we're here for a short period of time. The things that we do, we should do with the greatest sense of honesty and integrity and dignity. Um, but at the end of the day, there's there's someone else we need to answer to. And so, when you get to a point where there really is a conflict between what you're being asked to do and what what you know the Torah is asking you to do, then I think it's not a hard decision. I think you have to you have to do what's best because that's what's right and and and what's best because that's ultimately the most important thing. >> Okay, let's let's rebound to a different topic here. Sure. When I say the word basketball, what do you think about? >> I love basketball. I I don't I don't know exactly why I love basketball. I I I love the game. I love the competition. I love the strategy. I love the physicality. I love the the mental part. I love it. And I've been blessed to have the opportunity to play it um at almost every level uh since I was a small child. >> I know you your connection to basketball in a little bit of a different way. share with us what what you do each year in Memphis. It's every year, right? >> Yes. Yes, it is. Uh it we're going we just had our uh our 17th event, but we took three or four years off for COVID. So, really, we've been my wife and I have been doing this for about 20 years. Uh we started a basketball tournament for Jewish high school players from across the country. They come every year to Memphis. Now, here's the secret. I'm a little concerned saying this in the public forum because I've kept this as a very important secret for the past 17 years, but the Memphis Ishiva Invitational has almost nothing to do with basketball. Now, we don't tell the kids that. We bring 400 kids to Memphis each year telling them that this is the most unbelievable basketball experience you will ever have. >> And it's true. >> And it's true. and we make sure we we bring 20 high school teams from across the country and they do have the most unbelievable basketball experience they've ever had. But in between those basketball experiences, we have opportunities to be together to talk uh to learn about where different kids come from, both geographically, but even more important in terms of their spiritual uh development and their family life. uh to find ways to connect with one another, to find ways to break down those walls that unfortunately often separate our kids, to kind of bring us together as one connected Jewish people, regardless from where you come and from where you think that we're all we're all brothers, we're all one family. Um, and it culminates in a a beautiful uh shabas that we have together where we have kids who might have spent every Shabas of their entire life strictly observing every element of Shabas and young men who will tell me this is the first and last Shabas they have ever been a part of. And they're all together and they're all celebrating Shabas together and they're all learning from one another and they're all growing from one another and it's a just a really beautiful thing. >> Sounds like a big undertaking. >> It is. It is. We spend a lot of time and and uh my wife uh is an angel. She uh she goes along with it. She plays a humongous humongous role. Uh she really handles all of the logistics of the of the Shabas element. I handle the basketball, she handles the Shabas. Um and it's really it's an amazing experience. I'll tell you if I may, in a year 11 or 12 of the tournament, just out of the blue, I received a call from the assistant to the Bostoner Reba. Now the boss reba who I was not particularly familiar with but he was a very significant rabbi living in Harnof in Israel. >> He's rabbi rabbi. Exactly. And what I was told by this assistant is that the Bostoner reba has been looking to come to the United States to participate in some type of event where he can really meet and interact with high school boys. That's what he would like to do. That they've been looking around and they found our tournament and this is the event that they would like to come to. and the bosserba has decided he will be coming for the event. Now me with my audacity, I thanked very much the assistant for calling me, but I told him that this year I had actually already hired a comedian, so I didn't know if I had any real opportunity, but maybe in future years it would work out. And the assistant said, "I I don't I don't think you understand. Um, the Boston Reba is coming to the event and he he will be doing something Friday night." And I said, "I don't think so." and he said yes he will be and we hung up the phone and it was clear to me that whether I wanted to or not >> he would be there >> he would be there. So the shabas before I was sitting around with friends and we were talking and actually the the rabbi from from my from my synagogue was sitting there and we were talking about like what do I what do I give the Bostoner reb he's flying here from Israel like what do I give him as like a thank you gift and you know normally what we do is we give a a plaque to thank somebody for coming to speak or we give them a gift of some sort but like what what do we give the Bostoner reba when he comes and then it hit me I have the best idea I'm going to get him a Boston Celtics basketball jersey that says Boston on the front. I'll have a personalized Reba on the back and then we'll present it to him. And we're all laughing laughing. And the rabbi of of our synagogue who I had a wonderful relationship with, I don't think he ever yelled at me ever. He looked at me, he said, "I don't want to hear that. That is inappropriate. This is a very significant, wonderful person. You're not going to embarrass the community by handing him a basketball jersey." I said, "Okay. All right, fine. Fair enough. That was it. Didn't say any word about it. This is Saturday. Well, on Monday, the assistant calls me just to confirm all the plans for the upcoming Shabas. And I said, "Listen, can I ask you a question? I'd like to give the Reb something. I don't know what to give him. I mean, what can I give him?" "Oh, you don't need to give him anything at all, you know." And I said, "Well, just tell me tell me something." "Well, Josh, tell me what do you usually give?" I said, "Well, I'll tell you a funny story. I was actually I told him I thought I'd get him the jersey." And the assistant said, "Oh my god, the Reba would love it. He would love it." I said, "Are you serious?" Oh, he would go crazy for it. And now I'm thinking, "Well, it's now Monday. This is where am I going to get a custom jersey from?" Like, "How am I going to get this done?" So I look up, I call David Stern, the former head of the NBA. I call him at his office. I get to his secretary. This is Josh Cahane calling from the Glen Lebron Law Firm in Memphis. I have a very serious issue I must speak to Mr. Stern about immediately. It's a very, very serious issue. I will be waiting by the phone. I figured he'll never call. >> There's no chance this guy. Within 10 minutes, I get a call from his assistant. What's going on? I said, uh, I'm having the largest rabbi in the world. I don't know how to describe it. The largest rabbi in the world is coming. I need a Boston Celtics jersey with his name on the back. She says, ' Okay. I get an email 5 minutes later, spoke to Mr. Stern. You'll have the jersey tomorrow morning. It comes, it arrives. I now I have the jersey. It's unbelievable. I'm excited. Friday night, the Reba comes. He does this amazing program. I of course I was crazy. It was one of the highlights of the 20 years. The kids were just inspired by him. And now it's my turn to stand up. And now I start having a little bit of second thoughts now. like is this really a good idea? But everybody, all of my friends are spurring me on. So I stand up and I explain to the Reb that this is what we normally do and we wanted to give him something that he might not get anywhere else. And and I hold up the jersey and he goes crazy. This is amazing. I love it. And then he says the most amazing thing. He says, "I'm making a commitment right here and right now that if anybody in this room, comes to Israel, comes to Harnof, comes to my sh, I will put on this jersey and take a picture with you." And we all clapped and laughed. And that was the last we heard of it. January 1st of that year, I receive a picture of a boy and his mother standing with the Reba. And the Reba over his long black frock is wearing the Boston Celtics jersey. And I text the boy because I don't recognize him. He is a boy from a pluralistic school in Illinois. He had never observed Shabas before that weekend. Had never observed Shabas since that weekend. But he and his family were going on a trip to Israel. And he said to his mom, "I have to go find this rabbi. I have to take you to see him. I have to introduce you. I he he he touched my heart in a way that I've never felt." And they went and his mom, who h probably had never been with someone like this in her life, they showed up there. And this young boy says, "I was in Memphis. I remember that." The Reba went, got the jersey, put it on, and they took a picture. And it just it was everything that my wife and I hoped. Everything that we worked so hard to build was in that one picture. Had nothing to do with basketball, but it had to do with maybe just for a moment touching a part of of someone's soul, of someone's heart that hadn't been reached before. >> I think it's like the best story that anyone has ever said on the podcast. [laughter] So, thank you for sharing. Fantastic. I'm sure you've thought about this a bunch of times, but what makes you most proud of being a Jewish person? I I think I'm incredibly proud of our history and who we are and not so much our history in terms of what we've accomplished, but who we are and what opportunity that gives us moving forward in the world. I work at a law firm that's been in business for 103 years. It's the oldest law firm in Tennessee. It's one of the most well-known law firms in the southeast part of the country. I am the first Schommer Shabas partner that they have ever had in 103 years. And on the one hand, that's a big burden for me. The first year I was there explaining to them why I was not going to be there for the entire month of September or October for all of these madeup holidays that no one none of them ever heard of and why during uh the winter time I have to leave at uh you know 4:00 in the afternoon and there was on Fridays. Yeah, exactly. that that was a burden that that made me a little nervous. You know, everybody's in this together and why are they working till 10:00 at night and I'm I'm leaving at 4:00 and I never work on Saturdays. And but on the other hand, it it gives me a really really unique opportunity because when they look at me that that's who they see. I I am the only observant Jew, which is even harder because it's not like I'm the only Jew. If I was the only Jew, okay, so he's the only Jew, but there are other Jewish people there who are not observant. So then there's them and then there's Josh. But it gives me that opportunity to to give them a glimpse into what my life is like, what my family life is like, what values are important to me. um going to Israel, sending my children to Israel after October 7th, sitting down and having secretaries and parillegals come in with tears in their eyes asking me like what's going on? I don't understand. And being able to share with them that this the land of Israel is not simply geography that there's something so much deeper about it. um and the significance of that and being able to to be the proverbial light to be able to share with them what it means to be a Jewish person, what it means to be an observant Jewish person. And and that's that's something that's that's wonderfully unique. And and I'm proud. I'm I'm nervous because the flip side is also true. Anything that I might do that is less than dignified or less than respectful or less than honest, it doesn't simply reflect on me. It reflects on on everyone. Josh, talking to you has brought this podcast to brand new heights. >> Fantastic. >> Thank you so much for making the trip, for sharing. Thank you. Thank you for having me. >> Thank you for listening to Jewish Grit and Ol mentorship [music] podcast. At Ol Mentorship, we believe that everyone needs a mentor. What better way is there to tap into your personal and professional potential than with a Jewish mentor at your side? Learn more at olam.org/mentorship. Don't forget to keep listening on Apple Podcast, Spotify, [music] or wherever you get your podcasts.