Daf Hashavua - Nedarim 73a

Okay, good evening everyone. Sorry for the lateness here. We're continuing in mesechta nedarim daf ayin gimmel. The gemara was discussing the shaila of rami bar chama who wanted to know whether a husband or a father for that matter could be made for the nedarim of his wife without hearing it. It says v'shama isha is that davka or lav davka? Is v'shama isha davka or lav davka? And the gemara in its final tushma that we did so far brought a case of someone who says to an apetropus all the nedarim that my wife was menader from now until I come from makom ploni should be annulled and he was made for it. So you would think it would work. No, it says isha yefeirena. Rebbe Yoshia says only the husband. Rebbe Yonasan says we always say shichlasha dem kamai sai. And even Rebbe Yoshia only said that it doesn't work because of isha yekimenu av yefeirenu. But everyone agrees shichlasha dem kamai sai. I, but the husband didn't hear it. So the gemara the husband didn't hear it. So the ran asked let the baal let the let the shaliach hear it for you. So on Sunday we did an inyan sh'eitz machlokes the Rashba and the Ran. The Rashba says you can't transfer hearing. The Ran said, well the if the husband can't do it himself he can't appoint the shaliach. Fine. So the gemara says we'll start again with this answer hacha nami d'amar lei sh'mana meifer. Here also is where he says when I hear about it meifer la l'chi will be hufer to you to you. So the gemara asks shama leifer lahu. When he hears it let him annul it. Says the gemara savra d'ma machri d'na. He's afraid he's going to be busy then. We pointed out when we were learning on shabbos well if he's going to be made for it then so then and literally he has to go through the process of hafara when he hears it. So why in the world is he saying that it's going to be dependent on why would he tell the shaliach to do it? What exactly is the purpose of telling the shaliach to do it? Let's see the ran's. We didn't see these ran's on ayin gimmel amud aleph on the top. Hacha nami d'amar lei l'chi sh'mana. D'amar lei l'apetropus. Cuz he tells the apetropus kol nedarim sh'tidor ishti all the nedarim that my wife annuls that my wife makes hufer. They should be annulled. You should annul it. The tachol hafara san d'noment will be chal l'chi sh'mana when the husband hears it. The apetropus nami the high lishna amar l'isha muflach l'chi sh'mana ba'alich. The apetropus also says your um it should be annulled when your husband hears it. So that's the lashon that the apetropus himself says. Meaning the apetropus says the neder you made will be annulled when your husband comes back and hears. Okay. So the gemara asks now that the ran continues aval amar l'stam alai. >> [snorts] >> If he says to her stam they should be annulled it doesn't work. D'lai adif apetropus mi baal gufei. The apetropus is not better than the husband himself. U'baal gufei boi d'leima b'hadei b'hedya muflachi l'chi sh'mana. The husband himself needs to say explicitly it's annulled when I hear about it. K'dei aprishus l'el. U'pachina l'chi sh'miali leifer la. Let her be made for it. D'kivan d'sof soif chaili hafara ad sh'shama baal ha isha d'leifer la ihu gufei. Let him be made for it. >> [snorts] >> The ran deals with the question so let the husband just be made for it now if he's worried that he's going to be busy later. If the whole concern is that he's worried that later on he'll be busy so let him just say whatever nedarim you make. This is going according to the tanna that holds you could be made for nedarim in advance so let him be made for all the nedarim in advance. What does he have to get an apetropus involved? So the ran deals with the possibility that he might be happy with the nedarim that she makes. Maybe it'll be a good neder. Maybe she'll make a neder to make cholent every single day and he likes that. You know? Maybe he'll make a neder to make cholent for breakfast and for supper seven days a week. So and if he likes so then what's he going to do if he likes it? He'll just be mevatel the appointment of the of the shaliach. But if he annuls all the nedarim now he has no recourse in case she makes a neder that he likes. Let's say she makes a neder I make a neder that from now on I'm going to do whatever my husband likes. So he might he might go for that. He might actually like that one. So uh this way he reserves the right to embrace the nedarim that he he wants. Okay? So that was more like a hashlamah of last sugia. Now we move on to the new sugia. The new sugia on this page despite the late hour is very short. Boi Rami bar Chama. Cheresh ma hu sh'yafer l'ishto. A deaf mute a deaf not a deaf mute a deaf person could he be made for the nedarim of his wife? You'll say well we just asked you have to hear the nedarim of your wife. Maybe you could say like this. Maybe really this is taking the side you don't obviously that you don't have to hear the nedarim. If you take the side you have to hear a neder to be made for it then obviously a deaf person can't be made for it. But if you take the side you don't have to hear the nedarim well maybe you don't have to hear as long as you're able to hear. But if you're not able to hear then maybe it's not going to be good if you don't hear. Like the famous rule kol sh'eino ra'ui l'vila vila ma'acheres. There's a rule by mixing a korban the Torah says you shouldn't mix it and there's a position that you don't have to actually mix it you just have to be able to mix it. So mixing is not ma'akev. Being able to mix is ma'akev. So the shaila [snorts] is like this. Boi Rami bar Chama. Cheresh ma hu sh'yafer l'ishto. In um could a deaf person annul his wife's nedarim? Im timtza omer baal meifer b'lo sh'mia. If you say a husband could annul without listening mishum davar mishum d'var mishmahu. He's capable of listening. Aval cherush d'lo ba mishmahu aval cherush is not capable of listening. Hainu d'Rav Zeira. This is analogous to Rav Zeira. Then Rav Zeira kol ha'ra'ui l'vila. Anyone anytime you're able to mix let's say in a kli that's 60 issaron ein vila ma'acheres. But mixing is not uh an impediment. V'chol sh'eino ra'ui l'vila but if it's not capable of being mixed vila ma'acheres boi. Idem v'shama isha leima akava or maybe just listening is not imperative. Says the ran boi Rami bar Chama. Cheresh ma hu sh'yafer l'ishto. Cheresh hamedaber v'eino shomei'a. We're talking about a cherush that could speak. How does the ran know that? Normally cherush is a cherush sh'eino medaber v'eino shomei'a. Cuz in this case of eino medaber so he's not he's not he's not sane. He's not uh lucid so then if he's not lucid can't be made for nedarim. Happens to be I just saw I had a very interesting sefer over Purim from a Rav Tabak Tabak in Toronto on the megillah. What's the reason a a deaf person is considered uh shaita? What's the reason? Cuz he can't learn? It's not true. Nowadays he could go to a special school and he could learn. Could he could what what is it about someone who can't hear or it can't be that he can't learn cuz you could teach a cherush. So he says something very interesting that I heard from the Steipler. So the Steipler said contrary to to to I wouldn't say popular opinion but the way people would like to think it's not that you have sane people and insane people. Everybody has a degree of sanity and a degree of insanity. Every human being have strands of insanity. Some a little bit more some a little bit less. You know the the joke which is which is not funny it's not a joke. You know the there's a very fine line between brilliance and insanity. It's by the way sometimes it's so fine yeah lots of luck finding it. You know? But everybody has sanity and insanity. So el am I what's the what keeps people sane and not letting their insanity get the best of them? What keeps people sane is criticism. >> [snorts] >> What keeps people sane is are you kidding you're spending so much on that? You're so stingy? You're so frum? You're so In other words what people on the straight and narrow is if you have if you have friends if you have a spouse that tells you off and says you know this is you know steer right steer left. But the thing is the the cherush he has nobody to tell to nobody to criticize cuz he can't he can't absorb it. He can't hear it. So therefore his insanity gets the best of him. That's what the stifler said. Okay, very interesting. It's it's wild. It's actually it's it's it's uh very true. But anyway, very interesting. I had never seen that before. So that's the the run is saying we're talking about a that's a mission the is capable of hearing. The given the right maybe since the husband is able to hear is not a the concludes the my schmear that by a schmear is my give. from the fact the race of Isha the and the husband heard probably Isha's fish. Okay. So the says the and the husband heard probably Isha's fish. To exclude the wife of a schmear that's all so we see we see that a fish uh cannot be made for the of his wife. Now does that mean that could still mean that a husband has to be able to hear the of his wife and we just happened to say that neither could a fish. But we don't know we don't know about the original of that's still up in the air. Let's say a husband has two wives. Can he simultaneously annul the of both of them? He's married to sir and Yenta. And he says Yenta I want to be made for both of your simultaneously. Why? Why yeah why no? Well the says the Yanni I saw I saw. It I saw does the word mean it or it could be two? Says the by the by the and not really staying let's say they both make you could he say it is a note for you I saw Yanni I saw the Dubai the ball. This we have that a husband who had the nominee I saw. Is I saw that or that I mean that I saw in the state of let's say a person had two wives and he warned both of them don't go into seclusion with another man and they both went into seclusion. So you can't give to drink two of them simultaneously. Why? Then they shall leave the water. Because the heart of one of them will be empowered by the other. In other words let's say you have one guilty one innocent. >> [snorts] >> So the innocent one who's going to drink the soda waters not to be confused with soda waters. Although they both could have the same exact effect on the internal system the the so let's say one of them is guilty and one of them is innocent. So the the guilty one will say oh look you see the innocent one drank the soda waters and nothing happened to her so you know she doesn't know that she was innocent and the this one who's taking the chance is guilty. So we say they can't drink simultaneously that's not the reason why he can't give to drink to both of them at the same time. I don't know I saw I saw. Says the I saw I saw I know about the room. So so that the I saw I saw the the care of a ma. So here's the thing. It doesn't actually say the I saw. If it said I saw you know I could have uh called it a night by now. I could have said oh the says the I saw and just like I saw by means only one woman I saw by means one woman only thing it doesn't say that. It just says the I saw. The answer is it does say the I saw. The word means the I saw it's a compound word. That's how you that's what the word of me the I saw. He gave to drink to her the is means I saw. Okay so look in the run. Um they shall leave the ship shall have her to toilet. Sometimes her friend is eating me out. She had to have her to talk is data. She's going to get arrogant. The shame should not be too sure. I mean I shame was that I mean they come there. I mean they must can stay it's not because of a psychological factor. I mean I shame should not be the shame hey. I saw the I saw. The I saw the I saw. >> [snorts] >> Wow. The rush also says that >> [sighs] >> other say that the the word is as if it said I saw. So just like by a we take the word I saw that guy. So to my first you can only do one at a time. Now is the right of from Ruby Huda? Or even the the run brings an opinion that is bringing right from the run. I'm sorry. The run obviously hold you could give to drink at the same time if not for this far of that guy. So that means the run and old we don't I saw. That I saw is love that guy. Meaning Ruby it says I'm Ruby I saw. I saw what? You could do it or you can't. I learned it that he's bringing a right of from the Ruby Huda that you can't do two simultaneously. Other say no. We can bring right from Ruby Huda. We're going to follow the the say that the word I saw is love that guy. The only reason you can't do it simultaneously is cuz there's a psychological factor. Had it not been for that we're not going to the the I saw. And that's what the says. >> [snorts] >> However the run disagrees. And the run says the Ruby Shimon who's timer the car. We're explaining you know why WE I SAW. THE says there's a logic to I saw. The logic is because so I tell you the other says we don't need a logic to I saw. So really we're proving it the other way so there there are two ways to learn this you can learn uh like some learn we're bringing a right of from the who's the that doesn't I saw and the only reason you can't give to drink simultaneously is for the psychological factor. The run learns no the is explaining the rationale for the which which indicates you can't give to drink two women simultaneously. And the other you don't need a reason it's just a straight out Russia. >> [snorts] >> So according to that way we're we we see clearly that the word I saw is meant that guy and likewise by a first where it says where it says I saw the I saw you would only be able to be made for a one at a time. Okay. That's that I tomorrow. I ain't going to sky out. Recording stopped. According to the stifler Yeah. [snorts] sign language What? sign language and then I was looking at everybody else. Who's married to the wife? He does sign language. I guess real criticism was better with words. Good night. I caught them.