Parshas Toldos: Abortion - Halacha and Hashkafah

this Tower class is brought to you by torahanytime.com yeah okay so uh sure sponsored by Teddy Pollock lillianism okay Brooklyn we're coming we've discussed in the past many uh interesting and controversial topics but this one tops it all no question okay we're gonna speak tonight about uh a topic that's always on people's minds but is specifically relevant as the years passed by at the beginning of the Powershell rivco you may know after many years of anticipating having children finally bark Hashem She is expecting and she notices something uh out of the ordinary vice versa the children are quarrel quarreling she they're they're fighting they're running that timer she says if this is the case what did I want this for Taylor and she went to investigate of God now we always are accustomed to understanding this to mean that she went to the prophet she wanted to hear what does the navi have to say what do these children have in store for her however the target monkeys reads and understands this plastic a little bit differently the tiger monkey says why did she go to investigate God vasolas Hashem she went to seek instruction from before God all fan aleph learning she went to learn Torah she had a Hawaii question she had a halachic quarry she did not understand what to do and therefore she went to seek the advice of the poiskin that's how the target monkeys understands the pasok seek instruction so the briskarov wants to know and this is by way of introduction what was her halacha question and what's the question she's having twins you know it's not rocket science she feels they're two they're two kids inside well what's the Shyla so the biscarova brings down the meters they were both running to kill each other yaakov was trying to kill Ace of Asa was trying to kill yappen okay fine we understand why we understand that things haven't changed right the same thing right that's the same way it is now these two guys over there these are not Bene all dumb they're not born yet they're vlades they're fetuses okay they're fetuses is one allowed to kill a fetus what's the halacha of course you can't kill a human being are you allowed to kill a fetus so as we're going to learn tonight there's a difference between a Jew and a guy that this is one area of hawaka that for goyam the is for a guy to perform an abortion it is even worse than for a judo perform an abortion and we'll have to see why that if a guy kills a fetus we kill him it's capital punishment if a Jew kills a fetus there's no capital punishment so therefore says the riskarov yaakov is trying to kill asaph well yaakov is not really doing anything that he would be liable to Capital Punishment because yaakov is a Jew and Aesop is a guy for argument's sake Yakov Dave what's all right Dave right if it's if you see Ruben trying to kill Shimon you're allowed to kill rumaine to save shimon's life so yaakov trying to kill ASA yakov's not already why not because yaakov is a Jew a Jew to kill a fetus it's not a capital offense you're not liable to Capital Punishment on the other hand Aesop is a guy an ASA a guy cannot kill a fetus a guy who kills a fetus is a right Dave he's a full-fledged murderer so here rifco's looking at these two kids yaakov is trying to kill Asa Nishka fella a Jew killing a fetus it's not a capital crime ASA was trying to kill yaakov a guy killing a fetus capital offense Ace of is a right knife rivka Shayla is could she have an abortion on asaph could she kill Asa because asub is a guy a guy cannot kill a fetus a Duke could kill a fetus there's no capital punishment to which they respond to Rift God no you made a mistake Aesop will act like a guy but now in utero ASAP has not demonstrated that he's veering off yet right now these are both children of riska you may know how sadakis right now they're both hidden and they're equal and you can't touch either one okay the same way your smile is not a yet even though he was born of a Jewish mother why because he has been utterly rejected garish has been from his birth so too the same way ASAP wasn't not just because of his actions there's a half Amina to say this was already predetermined to which the navi said no Rabbi said what we want to we want this topic of abortion and now to our utter dismay and our other distress unfortunately the land of Israel today is either the most liberal or among the countries which are most liberal when it comes to abortion unfortunately they pay women money they fund an abortion for women between the age of 20 and 33. I remember if I remember correctly more than a million babies have been killed in the state of Israel that's the government you know now's not the time to discuss the approach toward the government of Israel but you could get a little bit of a feeling why not all Godzilla you throw or many hidal Israel do not okay but that's not what we're discussing tonight what we're discussing is what is the halacha regarding uh non-jew a gentile performing an abortion what is regarding a Jewish person performing an abortion it is look at number seven the gomara tells us a number of very interesting and unique number one a guy could be killed with one judge that means like this for it to kill a Jew how many day on them do you need to kill a Jew you need three dionum to kill a Jew but a good could be killed with one dying with one judge you could kill a gentile through the testimony of one witness a gentile could be held liable to Capital Punishment without being warned me pieta now that that witness has to be male but even if it's related in the name of rubby schmal it's reported that a guy who kills a fetus is liable to the death penalty a Jew who kills a fetus is not liable to the death penalty but a non-ju who kills a fetus is liable to the death penalty the gemara says a few lines down my time of the Ruby smile what's the reasoning of Ishmael Texas it says listen carefully one who spills the blood of a person in a person will have his blood spilled Sigma wants to know how do you kill someone inside a person how is it possible for there be for there to be a person in a person what does it mean someone who kills a person in a person we kill him says the gemara is what kind of person is inside of a person have a Holy Mary this is a fetus and the Taurus saying someone who kills a fetus but Adam that's already inside of a person we spill his blood in other words killing a fetus for Anan she was a capital crime a capital offense hey in the rambam task let's take a look at number eight the rambam and shaif them says if a gentile kills a fetus he's liable to the death penalty however concludes the rambam machine came to Israel that if a Jew kills a fetus they're not liable to the death penalty why not why not why if a Jew kills a fetus are they not liable to the death penalty so we come to a missionar that everyone has to know this is a fundamental mishnah when it comes to the laws of killing a fetus the mishnah says a woman's having a very difficult time in her pregnancy now we're not talking about regular pregnancy no pregnancy is Pleasant they're all difficult but there's a woman she's having terrible time her life is in danger her life is in Jeopardy the Vlad the fetus is jeopardizing is endangering the life of Thee of the mother we kill the fetus we cut up the fetus in the womb of the mother who might see a nice and we remove the fetus limbilim why because her life is more important than the life of the baby than the life of the fetus because her life the mother's life is more important than the life of the fetus why why is the mommy's life more important than the life of the fetus you ready for arashi there's an astounding rash in the safest the Sanhedrin off iron Bays says rash you look carefully number 10. they call zman before a kid sees the light of day love nephesh who it's not a living creature it's not human being what's an Adam in Adam is someone who's born before someone is this is not an Adam this is not a soul you hear such a thing rashes of the opinion that before a child is born it's not a nephesh so why does the life of the mother take presence over the life of the child because the mother is a nephesh and the child is not an fesh but says the mishnah as soon as that kid sticks out its head or comes out majority then it is a nephesh and then you cannot kill the child to save the mother's life then you have to let nature take its course is saying a very important idea that what's the reason why if the mother's life is in Jeopardy you're allowed to kill the child not be cool as the child is a right day not because a child's trying to kill the mother because a baby a fetus in utero is not a nephe says Rashi comes along the SMA be smart and he says I'll prove to you that before a kid is Born the nephe the the child is not an fesh it's not a living being it's not a viable creature you know what the proof is does anybody know what's up if a person hits slugs punches pregnant woman and the mother miscarries so what does this guy do what do we do to the guy does he wrote sayak do we kill him no we say pay up pay the mother for the value of the fetus pay the mother for the value would anybody say that if you if if uh Shimon kills Levy so then we say oh shimo wavy is worth 137 bucks so why don't you just give it to Levy's wife of course not shimon's uh murderer you don't pay money when you kill somebody we take your life so we take your life so why somebody who slugs a woman and the mother miscarries why do you have to pay money the answer is as a smile because until a baby is born it's not a nephesh now again a guy who kills a fetus is but a Jew who kills a fetus it's not an fesh so is it mother the gemaran Sanhedrin and that says something that you're probably all thinking then how is it possible that there's something that a guy is not allowed to do that a Jew could do it's just like so going against the way we were brought up how is it possible that there are things that we're allowed to do that goyam can't do nothing that is not shayak like would there would you ever imagine they're things that we could eat that going imagine if there was a restaurant that you know we could eat at and goyan would walk by you know with glary eyes and you know they're salivating oh we wish we could eat that there's no such thing right it's just the opposite there's nothing in this world you know we're trained there's nothing in this world we could do that glaim can't do and yet in fact the gamara says I'm selfless on hedging let go me down there's nothing to Israel Shari that Jews are latitude what what it just can't be it can't be such a thing you know I can't yeah we're not talking about Mitzvahs we're talking about prohibitions so therefore Tice this ass and other questions what do you mean there's nothing goyam can't do that Jews could do commit an abortion Jews could commit an abortion says Tice is looking number 13 very important ubrem on a fetus that a Jewish even though a Jew is not punished Shari it's still not permitted in other words says Titus a Jew cannot commit an abortion cannot perform an abortion why what's the problem I thought it's not an fesh doesn't explain exactly learning that according to tices it's incongruous to say that a guy cannot perform the abortion and a Jew can and therefore you have to say a Jew can't now is it medai Raisa is it midrabanon is it just the humra you know it's it's like as farai it can't be that Jews could do something that God can't do okay so we start like this the first opinion that we're going to examine tonight the opinion of the mizraki like this to kill a fetus is cold-blooded murder it's like going in or going walking down the street and shooting someone in the head there's no difference between killing an adult killing a child killing a fetus so that the question is so why if a guy performs an abortion is it a capital crime and for Judah performing abortion there's no death penalty says there is a technical halachic loophole when it comes to abortion and that's the following in order to give a Jew capital punishment you need to be able to warn him definitively and you need to be able to say rabbit don't shoot Yehuda don't shoot zavulan if you shoot zavulan we're watching you you're going to be a right sayak and if you do it we'll give you capital punishment so if if Shimon does it then he's high of me so we could kill him in the court why because we warned him definitively but let's say we tell Shimon Shimon don't kill this guy it might be you it might be zavulan or it might be a horse we're not sure we can't tell but don't shoot him because it might be a human it might be a Jew and if it's a Jew you're gonna be high Misa if he shoots him and it turns out to be a human we can't give him the death penalty you know why because that's called hasras Suffolk we did not warn him definitively you can't give someone a warning don't do this because maybe you have to warn someone don't do this because without a definitive warning you can't give hasra it's not a hasra therefore says Mizrahi you can't warn somebody don't perform the abortion you know why because since this child has not been born yet we don't know that this child is going to be a viable human being until a kid is 30 days old you don't know if it's a Ben kayama maybe maybe the child was not is not going to be born after full term maybe he'll be born after eight months maybe the child's not healthy and you're not then killing a viable human being so you can never warn someone don't perform this abortion because you're killing a Bible human being well we have no idea we have no way of knowing if you're for sure killing a viable human human being so therefore we cannot administer definitive warning and that's the only reason why if somebody performs an abortion they're not high of Misa but are they a murderer yes is it yes is it any less is it more lenient for a Jew to do it than for a guy no it's just that we can never never give a Jew capital punishment because he can never warn him but a guy doesn't need to be warned you could administer capital punishment to a guy without warning so therefore a guy who performs the abortion even though it's not a full-fledged warning nevertheless you could give them capital punishment that is the opinion of the Mizrahi again Mr s there's a problem with the warning comes the shout out reveal here and Riviera bakra one of the great um he talks about the following case you have a woman a from woman she's married and she's mazana and now she's wondering why from the moment she's mazana her cycle stopped and she's wondering why what happened and then she realizes why because she's expecting and she realizes Sprints to realize that she's having a nice little mum's room and she's going but she's beside herself she's banging her head against the wall and blood is coming out of her head that's how upset she is that's what's reported in the chuva she comes to the rub and she says Rob I want to do chuva what should I do she's devastated she's gonna have a mom's her and she wants to know could she take some kind of pill to abort the fetus I don't believe this ever happened it's not happening then all of a sudden she was a from woman and she said and now she's asking Shiloh's head of the tuba but she but theoretically if such a thing happened that abortion is not murder not murder only if you kill a child that is actually burnt pornism so what's this sir it's still Usher what's the yes sir the answer is Zara it's an Easter of wasting seed in English we know one's out of waste seed masturbation there's a Prohibition in the Torah of wasting seed so lavender according to the zayar it is the single most however according to the halacha it's her love it's a love it's a Prohibition so you say this is not seed this is a child this is a fetus it's worse than seed it's seed that has developed so to abort a fetus is the love of Zara and a woman is not allowed to be magical Sarah according to summary Shonen according to others she can but a woman according to many visham is not allowed to either and therefore says for a woman to abort the fetus it's alive not of murder but of wasting seed and she can't do it is it murder it's not murder but it's a lower level it's called comes of Yakov emden and says one of the most radical hidusha you'll ever hear ready same Shiloh a married woman is mazana now she's expecting a beautiful little momzero right she wants to abort the fetus if we had a president what would we do to this woman who would kill her but she's pregnant the baby didn't sin no the baby's part of the mother but the babies could be exotic doesn't matter right now the baby's part of the mother okay Linda but we don't have bezden but she herself is really high of Misa and so is the baby if at this point she would say to herself I'm so upset about the about the roof would that be suicide no because since she's really liable to the death penalty and she feels that this punishment is resting on her back and she feels the only way she could gain favor in the eyes of Hashem is to perform suicide she would be allowed to but what about the child child's part of her so now she doesn't want to commit suicide she just wants to commit suicide on part of her the baby says the react of emden since anyway the mother's kind of Nissan the babies and if a person is so distorted by an aveira they could take this kind of punishment in their own hands says of yak of them then she could do it because an abortion is not murder it's only and anyway the baby's liable to the death penalty not only is she allowed to do it it could be it's a Mitzvah to do it now now that you've heard that the doors are locking okay you have to hear the conclusion of that subtractable an abortion is not murder the maritime the marit writes is that why is abortion User it's not murder it's not wasting City foreign means you can't injure someone are you allowed to go over to a Jew and you know hit them you can't damage a Jew you can't injure a Jew so you a woman is not allowed to injure herself she can't injure her arm she can't injure her baby is it murder Ed it's not murder is it wasting seat it's not wasting seed it's it's injured injury okay so so far we have a few opinions the opinion of the Mizrahi is it's cold-blooded murder why don't you get death penalty because we can't warn you opinion is wasting seed and you know the marit it's damage it's javola comes along and possibly the most controversial tysis in all of Shas and Tyson says the following question if you have a fetus who's in danger life is in danger are you allowed to desecrate Shabbos to save the life of the fetus no let's say you have a fetus though the life of the feet is in danger could you drive the mother to the hospital on Shabbos to save the fetus of course you can of course you can tices asks if you're allowed to kill the fetus then why you added that's a great job is to save its life you can't have it both ways if you're allowed to commit an abortion then how are you allowed to desecrate Shabbos to save this life but clearly from ptosis's question it's clear it's Isis holds abortion is mutter Tyson says look at number 18. he says if you could kill a fetus says that even though you're allowed to kill the fetus you're also at a desecrate childness to save the life of the fetus why would that be I mean what what it's like the Shabbos is discretionary if you want you could kill it and if you want you could desecrate Chavez Tyson says I'll bring you a proof the proof is that someone who's a guy says what's a guy say someone who's about to leave this world not through natural means through let's say an injury somebody injured the person and there are ghosts if someone kills such a person we won't kill them because the person is about to die anyway are you allowed to desecrate Shabbos to prolong the life of a guy says yeah so you see that even though if you would kill the guy says you would not be liable to the death penalty nevertheless you're allowed to desecrate Chavez to prolong the life of the ghostly so too uh fetus even though you're allowed to kill it Tyson says you're also at a desperate Shabbos to save its life but Tyson seems to be saying very clearly abortion is not an Israel those are the words of tysus both in his question and his and his answer thank you the marathias points out wait a second didn't touch this we read in Sanhedrin said that even though um a guy is now to do abortion and for Jew it's Potter but it's still osser well says this type of seems to say very strange why in the world would Titus be saying it's means motor means you're allowed to do it in the first instance you'll have to do it he means Potter what you know what Potter means patter means if you do it we're not going to give you a death penalty but you still know how to do it in the first instance Potter avalosa but that's not the words of tysus the words of Tyson motor okay so so far let's lay out on the table the different opinions we have the opinion of the Mizrahi is that it's murder it's cold-blooded murder we just can't kill you because we can't warn you the opinion of it's wasting sea the opinion of the marit it's injury and tysus lo and behold seems to have an opinion at its motor what's the nastamina what's the Practical difference between why abortion is awesome so I'm going to tell you an amazing case that Rev unterman one of the first Chief rabbis of Israel brings down and with Maisha quotes in as Chivas about a German officer ready for this it's an amazing case German officer World War One he has relationship with a Jewish woman he lives with her he impregnates her lo and behold this woman is not now carrying a child for a German officer the last thing the German officer wants is for a Jewish woman to be carrying his child so he says you better make your way to the clinic and have an abortion she goes to abortion so who's the doctor from a year who else right the doctor says I can't do it the German says you can't do it you could do it I think you could do it you'll find a way hey he threatens him now the question is can a Jewish doctor save his life by performing the abortion if abortion is murder like the Mizrahi are you allowed to kill someone to save your life you can't kill someone to save your life if someone says kill be or I'll kill you the Allah because you can't kill someone to save your life why not because we say who says your blood is redder than your friend's blood maybe your friend's friend's blood is redder than yours so hello because you're now to kill someone to save your life right if somebody puts a gun to your head and says kill zavulon or I'll kill you you can't kill someone because maybe Zulan is more valuable in the eyes of God than you are so if abortion is murderer then you cannot the doctor will not be allowed to perform an abortion to save his own skin but if abortion is only wasting seed like or it's damaging like the maritz those these are only Lovin you're allowed to violate any Prohibition in the Torah to save your skin then you'd be allowed to perform the abortion to save your skin this would be a major Nazca Mina between the various reasons to which of unterman suggests that it could be everyone would agree you could perform the abortion to save your life you know why number one yeah it's murder but it's not full-fledged murder it's what we call abisrai ha it's the dust of ritika if it's not explicit in the Torah you don't have to give up your life not to violate it and you ready for this even if you want to say like the Mizrahi that an abortion is murder but why am I now to kill someone to save my life because who says my blood is redder than his blood but when we're dealing with an abortion I have a very compelling logic to say my life is redder my blood is redder than the baby's red blood because Rashi and Sanhedrin said that until a kid is born it doesn't have enough Ash so you're right when it's between any two Jews we say who says your blood is redder than their blood but when it's between a viable human being and a fetus we do have a compelling logic to say your blood is redder you know why your blood is redder cause you have an fs and the baby doesn't have an FS yet so in that case Israel Hunter man everyone would agree the doctor would be allowed to commit the abortion to save his skin but don't take anything we say tonight buddy should ever know of such a thing and if a situation arises you have to ask not your local show rabbi this is something you have to take to the highest level but this is just so you should be familiar with the issues at hand and the issues that we're dealing with there are two two of the major person that discuss this Shyla uh the tits Eliza are you the waldenburg who was the poisek of showered Civic Hospital yes sir and with Moshe Feinstein the greatest moisture there is a genetic disease called Tay Sachs which is terribly debilitating the child within its first year it begins to deteriorate very rapidly losing eyesight losing any faculties and says it's Cecilia at least in his time I don't know if it's different today but uh not so long ago a child could not survive past the age of four and says it says together there are no specific treatments for Tay Sachs the technology is that after three months after conception you could already do genetic testing and figure out if the kid has this terrible disease and this is a disease that's terrible suffering for the baby maybe even worse suffering for the parents psychological suffering says Cecilia's are psychological suffering that could lead to health issues for the parents he knows of cases where parents had heart attacks and kidney diseases all because of the the agma snefash of such a child it's Kula is in such a case would it be permitted If the parents get a terrible basura that this is a child would they be allowed to abort the fetus and the Cincinnati has their pascans this is the one circumstance that would be mutter it would be permitted why is that says it's a first of all a Jew who commits an abortion if a guy found out he couldn't do the abortion because for a guy it's murder imagine most places can say it's not murder it's only us sir some say my job yes it's a severe prohibition but under these very harsh tragic circumstances where the parents are going to be thrown into what nobody should have to uh to face he said it would be permitted under those circumstances because says it's Atelier of Jacob emden writes that even a kosher Uber even a kosher fetus even if the fetus is not a monster let's say for a great necessity even if the mother's life is not in danger of emden says under very limited circumstances it would be permitted says it says if there was ever a case of sorry if there was ever a difficult circumstance in this world if ever in this world there was a tsara it would be for a parent to have a child like that and therefore says for convenience let's say parents say you know what we're not ready we can't afford it or you know we're not gonna be able to go on vacation of course he can't do it but under this one situation says it sits elieza he would permit it that's what the sister is lights and relax your gimmel semen cough base he received another question about a different disease that today has a little bit of a different name the disease presented to him was something called mongolianism which is today Down syndrome says even though the testing is pretty accurate you cannot compare it to Tay stacks Tay Sachs the child cannot develop at all not physically not mentally no faculties the child is there's no functionality that's one situation but mongolianism down syndrome the child has a certain level of functioning it's not on pain he said he would not permitted for that situation again it's only in the very limited situation where the child's life is not a life at all and the parent's life is not a life at all but under the situation of down syndrome nobody should know of it but under that situation you cannot extrapolate from one disease to another says it says if it's gonna absolutely destroy the life of the parents that has to be viewed and has to be um examined carefully by the greatest authorities but to make a blanket extrapolation no only in the situation of Tay sex other situations however that's what this Cecilia's rights in a third to think of being liberal here or I'm being lenient or um treating of not that important the concept of of this is of abortion no you should know that if it's a matter of convenience or a matter of making your life easier or a matter of finances none of this applies instead you have to look at the zayara colors rights that there is a certain Avira that causes the destruction of the world that because of it God leaves the world and famine comes to the world and murder comes to the world says he sits oh yes abortion is such a terrible horrendous Avera that it literally causes the downfall of society in the world and you have to be very careful just because I'm giving a header in this case of the genetic disease you have to be very careful not to extrapolate or apply or extend it to any other case that is the opinion of the Cecilia very interestingly that sits elieza calls abortion causing them to fall out a little bit of a more lenient expression rev Maisha Feinstein however has a more harsh expression hariga Subaru and as we're about to see RAF Maisha holds under all circumstances abortion is cold-blooded murder without exception listen very carefully ramosia says doesn't I say that there is nothing that a Jew could do that a guy can't do and Tyson says what about abortion until he says no two can to abortion either says that much you know why and you can't do abortion it's the says that why are you allowed to be makalo Shabbos if it's mother to a board of fetus so Tyson says it's mother to do an abortion and even entices his answer he said even though it's mutter to abort the fetus you could still be Michael says it's motor says the printer has made an error entices and you have to change the words of tysvis from mother to Potter means you don't get killed but you know how to do it I for hundreds of years nobody ever made this textual amendation entice this says I don't care to say that Isis holds its motor Cesar would anyone in their right mind say that when it comes to a fetus you have a choice either your mother to kill it or you could desecrate Shabbos to save its life what's Judaism this is not we're not talking about reform there's no discretion you don't know there's nothing at your discretion if you want you could desecrate Shabbos and if you want you could kill it there's no such thing you can't desecrate Shabbos for something that you're allowed to kill doesn't make any sense you have to say says of my show what Isis means is you're not liable to the death penalty for killing a fetus but you still can't do it and since you can't do it that's why you're allowed to be makalo shop is to save the life but there would be it would be impossible to say that rebunction would ever Shabbos is not so whimsical if you would you could kill the child and if you want you could desecrate Shabbos for the child doesn't make any sense besides that says with Maisha what was tysus's proof that even though you're allowed to you could be Michael Chavez from a guy says wait a second nobody says it's just a few do you not liable to the death penalty so maybe only a guy says that since you're now to kill it anyway you'll add a description but how could you extend that how could you prove so maybe the ubar the fetus you can't desecrate Chavez I mean how could you prove it if a guy says you're not allowed to kill so maybe only a tab is to save but if a fetus then how could you prove a magosis that just like a ghost you'll add it that's a great child a secret that's a great job is for the ubar there's no comparison because LMI there's a mistake entice this and you have to change the word mutter to Potter what would I say says emotion in the case of the German officer who impregnated the woman and is threatening the doctor that if he doesn't perform the abortion he'll kill the doctor could a doctor save his skin mind performing the abortion at first glance no you know why killing a fetus is not the dust of murder it's full fledged first degree manslaughter but you don't incur the death penalty for it so it says they're motion since you don't incur the death penalty the doctor would be allowed to save his skin by committing the bush you know why because he could say my blood is redder than the kid's blood because for killing the kid you don't get the death penalty and For You killing me you do get the death penalty so my blood is redder and then ramosia says the most bold thing I ever read relish everything says that a woman who committed adultery and is having a little mom's rule could commit the abortion and it's even a mitzvah says with moshare despite the fact of Jacob emden was a great man and first said he was a navi these words are dvorim battalum a talent it's just utterly wrong what because this mother is liable to the death penalty together with the kid so you could kill her says emotion if someone's liable to the death penalty and you kill them you take the dinner to your own hands You're a murderer what if somebody you saw somebody desecrate Shabbos and there were two Aiden and the two of them warned him and you said ah forget the best and I'll Stone the guy you're a murderer what if the guy went to beds then and you know Benson is going to pass get inside of Nisa and he said I know what the sack's gonna be salting my own hands You're a murderer what if you heard the Dion I'm whispering to each other that they're about to issue the verdict that this guy is liable to that family you say you know who needs to wait for that I'll take into my own hands and you kill him you're a murderer the only time United murderer is if you hear best and say the words if you take the din into your own hands you're not allowed to but if you do you won't be considered murderer says unless you find something we have no business today there is no warning there weren't Adam so this woman wants to kill the baby because she would be high of Misa if besden was around says where Marsha Feinstein I prayed to the rebinder son that the Republicans from forgiver of yak of emden for writing these words but nevertheless there's a Maisha don't pay any attention to what he said about them was he a great man yeah was he a novel absolutely was he right no he was not right about decision and therefore Elisha concludes why am I being so about this issue because we live in America and we live in a society that allows for abortion but even worse is the fact that the state of Israel also allows abortion and therefore we have to stand up for the principles of the type and we have to especially in our generation take extra precautions to save Jewish life therefore in my opinion we have to announce to the world this is cold-blooded murder I a certain unless she doesn't even want to mention his name is that if a kid has genetic disease then abortion would be permitted before the seventh month I'm astounded and shocked that this would say such a thing now we all know who the Haka was we were learning it all night the four chuvo shouts which was so appalled by this sack he wouldn't even allow himself to say the name of the qachham in conclusion and this is writes in hmm it goes to myself but motion concludes it's absolutely clear without any doubt from all that we shine him and all the post game that abortion under all circumstances is doesn't matter if the kid is kosher the kid is the Manser doesn't matter Loyola the kid is not healthy the kid is healthy cannot rely on the chuvas of this says [Applause] and number 23 and halak you're dalid Simmons what he asks about my I read it I reviewed it I reviewed it a third time even though I could dissect the whole tube and go through that lens I'm not gonna do it I'm gonna be very level-headed about it I'm gonna do it with great calmness DACA and you choose which path you take first says that sits elieza with Marsha Feinstein said that when Tyson says mutter you have to change the gersa says he says my dear Master this is not the way don't we live based on the centuries of godola Israel who are very hesitant to tamper with the words of Titus ever thought to say there's a mistake in Texas and therefore says it took so yeah I don't budge under normal circumstances even for especially for convenience but even for health you can't do it but under the limited circumstances that I mentioned in those cases says yes it would be permitted but ramosha Feinstein possibly more than any issue we ever stood up for especially because of what was happening in the state of Israel where it has become like we mentioned from either the most liberal or among the most liberal countries when it comes to this and we mentioned can you imagine if there were a million more Jewish babies involved what the face of the Jewish people would look like when you think about the fact that never the same number of babies were killed in the Holocaust very scary thought it's a very sad thought and because of that moisture felt that he has to stand up and Preserve the life of of the Jewish child so why is there noisa ramosha says that's there's no such thing maybe because it's something but here we have these two opinions of the acronyms carries the tremendous way to recognizing but this is uh the issue so now we could say like this going back to the beginning of this year and the tagamoncos that rufka had a Shiloh is ASAP and therefore she could perform he's a right day because Uber so here Shiloh was was now we could say a little differently you know was who do we passing like oh there you go it's nice here and what'd they tell her they said you can't do it they can't do it okay that's obviously our P Josh but the this was the halachic Dilemma what are the Alaska parameters of abortion and this is something all the places and in the uh under all normal circumstances this is something that not forgottium certainly now it's very interesting sits Eliezer says that even in the limited circumstance that you're allowed to do it make sure you get a doctor who's female because since this is era and their many opinions women don't have that is Sir that definitely makes it more lenient because the one a woman is less warned about the Israel of uber so again Rabbi said this is but like all areas of Torah it's important to have the fundamental principles I wish everyone everyone should have emergency healthy children you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by torahanytime.com