Army Exemptions for Yeshiva Students - Part 2 by Rabbi Anthony Manning

okay let's make a start if I could uh just Echo that last comment and please ask everybody to turn off their phones there is always a phone that's on or more than one so if that's your phone then please could you turn it off um if I could just make a few uh announcements just in terms of uh organization and housekeeping next week is puim actually shushan pmem so will not be a share here next week uh at least I won't be giving the share I don't think there'll be a share here the week after however we will have a share and we will finish off this topic and then we're into the couple of weeks before P sorry the couple of weeks before pesak and we'll be doing pesak related shim then um if I could also thank our sponsors the shim for 2024 have been sponsored very kindly anonymously Leu Nish bras brandit and zeli cman Alam should be a an Ayah foram so we're dealing with a tricky topic um we started last week with a discussion of uh some issues as an introduction to this question of the draft and the Ki community and their relationship with the draft an important um video that came out uh which Mr Bron actually said me since last week is a is a video by rig grut some of you may have seen it uh in Hebrew he he gave a very powerful response to the comments that came out last week from the richion ravf um and actually tradition Journal have just uh published those as in English uh not as subtitles but as an article where they've adapted rut's 9 89 minute video so I would strongly recommend that you go online uh I think it's available freely the tradition uh trans script of that video is it makes it very very important reading so let's just maybe structure the issue again so that we can understand how uh at least I I feel that we'd like to approach it there are basically three issues one issue is the are the sources uh the background meaning the when when ranim say that they feel that the draft of uh the Ki Community into the Israeli Army is prohibited they quote source so our job in this year is to try and analyze those sources meaning I'm a rabbi I'm not a political scientist I'm not a sociologist I'm certainly not a politician um and there are aspects which I'll mention in a minute which very much go into that area but we're looking at the sources how do they Stack Up what is halakic what is hashkafic are they strong are they weak because it's important that we analyze those but there are at least two other issues um which are number one a sociological issue which is extremely important important which we talked about a little bit last week which is the community is very concerned that drafting into the army will undermine the religious commitments of its of its boys and we talked a little bit about that and that's a real concern and ravenstein said that's a concern for everybody for the Zionist Community as well and in order to address that people with you know broader Minds than mine and bigger brains than mine will need to work out systems to try and um if not eliminate then at least reduce or minimalize that concern to the best way that we possibly can but we have to take that concern very seriously it's nobody's fault that that is a reality that is a reality and and I think that if we just try and uh steamroll people into the army saying well it's your problem if your boys are going to be less religious at the end then that will be completely counterproductive people will just uh clamp down because that's an existential threat you can't expect people to give in on that and then have mass protests people will go to jail people will leave the country and um and and I understand that and I think that would be a reasonable response if people try and force that issue just as in the religious Zionist Community um there is a heale which Lally just means an arrangement so there has to be a heale of some kind maybe it's not the same heale but there has to be a heale with the k Community but there's a third point which I think is even even deeper which is the the Jewish Community has survived for thousands of years in galut by taking the approach and and and educating its Community to understand basic fundamental which is where we're living now this is not our country this is not our country we're not Russians we're not polish we're not Germans we're not Americans we're not English and there's any number of historical precedents to show that once the Jewish Community starts to say well this is my country I am first a German and then a Jew and Berlin is the Y shal of Germany Etc then that's a disaster we've seen that time and time and time again now the k Community and the religious Zionist Community have a different religious outlook on what we're experiencing now in Israel the religious Zionist Community understands that this is something different this is not like Germany 19th century or Poland 17th century this is the beginning of a Gula process however defined and we've had number numerous shim on that issue the k Community has taken the view that this is not a GAA process this is basically a h a continuation of galut albe it in ER Isel which is wonderful and everyone appreciates that it's a Mitzvah and learning tah here is even more you know powerful Etc but as long as people still take the fundamental view which has been ingrained in us for thousands of years this is not my country we are we are not going to get past this issue because at the end of the day if this is not our country then why should I fight and why should I die and why should I give up this etc etc and I don't know how to shift that um and it may shift understandably you know as people the community gets bigger um R Yak brovitz was interviewed recently on the Orthodox conundrum he gave a very very very important and interesting defense if you like of the kedi community position he was in a slightly awkward position because he wasn't giving his own opinion he was trying to explain how it works and he quoted interestingly yid uh he said he doesn't agree with most of what says about you know religious issues and I don't suppose many people in this room do but he made an interesting point a few years ago where he eloquently turned around to the Ked community and R brto has quoted this and said listen guys you've won you've won yeah 400 Jews got the exemption in in 1948 there are now bashem 65,000 Boys in Yeshiva who are facing that you've won move on now you have to try and work out what it means to be a 30% a 40% membership of a country can you now still say this is not my country and I don't know the answer to that but that's that's fundamentally I think one of the real issues here and all the tiny little Annoying points about being anti- yamat and anti-zionist stuff that goes on the little points and they Annoy Us sometimes or they irritate me but actually they add up to an entire mindset which is the one that we're facing here and we have to work out a way to try and again I'm not blaming anyone for that mindset that is a defense mechanism that we've had for 2,000 years so you know that's if you like how I'd like to structure it and I won't be talking about the sociological points and the political points as I said I'll be dealing with the sources but we need to think about the other points as well so on the issue of the sources I'd say I divided also into into uh six one of them we looked at last week was the issue ofah what is what does it mean to find a compulsory War who is exempt a tour scholar is exempt Etc a second point is the opportunity of hezel and the idea of the Mitzvah of fighting in the war and the synthesis of those two ideas of learning Torah and fighting in the war for ER Israel and for medat Israel R Lin spoke about that last week at length we looked at that last week at length that's a second point a third point is what I want to come on to today is the main precedent that is cited almost always and rot referred to this in his response to the rishan which is that the tribe of Ley is exempt from war and everybody can join if they wish the tribe of Ley we'll we'll deal with this in a minute a fourth Point as a number of agic sources hashkafic sources that relate to the idea of T Scholars and the Army draft we'll talk about those today and the fifth and the sixth point we'll leave for last time next time the fifth point is the issue of do Torah Scholars require protection are they protected by virtue of their Toral learning and what implication that has has for The Wider Community do they protect everybody else that's an important actually quic source and finally the issue of if I'm doing one Mitzvah I I exempt from another Mitzvah and actually that will take us out of this topic a little bit which is not a bad thing because we would we need to morph and and and work into prees broader issues and get back down to talking about some other issues and that will take us nicely into that and as I said the last two shim before PES will be PES related I've got to start thinking about new things to talk about about PES I mean pesak is a big topic but we've been doing this sh for the last 8 years we always have three shirim before P at least so we've already covered about 25 different issues so I will keep on searching don't worry I'll try not to repeat because I know you have very long memories and whenever I say this is something we haven't dealt with for seven years there's always some lady in the bank says no I remember everything you said okay and maybe she does maybe some of us Wen here that's the other okay I don't even remember I mean I I L I looked for a source this happened to me this week it happens to be more and more I looked for a particular Source I was going to go on Post online you know does anyone know where this source is I did some online research and it took me to my own source sheet from 5 years ago so like you know I can now even argue with myself that's great okay so as we know let's go to page one the tribe of Ley had special treatment due to the fact that they did not participate in the Sin of the golden cuff they were chosen to be a tribe which was uh dedicated specifically to spiritual matters effectively they became the 13th tribe uh Yosef was split as you know into a manasha and they got gifts they were given gifts in order to support themselves because they did not receive a in the land and that's very very important they had no independent earnings no independent wealth so they got massian 10% of the produce Etc now this was effectively ended in the second temple period when the lvim did not live up to prior example and did not come back with Ezra and to so Ezra basically aned mass now there is no requirement to give your mass to a Ley you can if you wish they don't have to be tahor to eat it you can take some of your figs or grapes and give them to the Ley now around the road I know people who actually do that but it's not halachically required so how do we understand the the exemption of the tribe of Labor from the Army so let's start let's move into this quickly number one so it says the pasuk in we'll be getting to that soon we're already in as follows so that's the number of people counted alog together 63,5 the were not counted with the other people M didn't count them and then God says to and you mustn't count them and do not rais their heads as it were do not count them um by their pole tax as it were but is which is actually interesting cuz Moshe didn't count them and then he was told not to count them so I brought you in the footnotes the ramban who says he didn't count them because God didn't specify a Nasi for the tribe of Ley at the beginning of Bidar so he thinks there's something a bit different about them let's not count them yet and we'll see what we need to do and then God says quite right don't count them and if you remember all of the other tribes were counted as all those that go out to the Army and therefore we will see if this also applies in the same way to Levy or they exempt because they're not counted so the rash explains as in following number two we see that you're not allowed to count Levy or and the reason is they they will not go in out into the war they have a different role their role is is hasem as we will see in a minute their role is to be fighting as it were through the spiritual Pursuits in the mishan they are not going to war and the rambam here brings in number three we'll see a very very important Source here which is as they say one of the primary sources cited by raban the exemption for the community says number three why did the the Ley not go out not get a portion in the land of Israel and in The Spoils of the war with their brothers they are set aside to serve they have a role they have to be poim to teach the the the righteous ways of God they have to serve the public by teaching Torah and giving to the public as he says he brings Le's job is to teach to to the Jewish people they were separated from the general responsibilities of the world and they do not go out to W like the rest of the Jewish people they don't inherit in the land they do not get anything by virtue of their own membership if you like as a one of the Jewish people that's his words they are the the part the the the soldiers of God the plug of God okay so far not so controversial but then the rambam goes on and this is how he ends and not only the tribe of any single person I don't think he just means men any single person and it doesn't sound like he just means Jews any individual in the world who is driven by the sense of wanting to give his Spirit needs to give and he decides to separate himself ser and just to serve to know and understand and he he lives a Pure Life a straight life like God has created him sorry and he pushes off his neck all the all of the bills we have to pay and all of the things we have to do and the and the irritations that lead that take us from you know focusing on spirituality which all of these normal people do says the rambam even though they're not a in terms of birth they are they are the holy of holies and God will be that portion and they will get whatever they need in this world whatever they require not more but whatever they require just like the and the managed Shalom and doesn't David saying David is his example of one of these volunteer what I'm going to call a volunteer Le God is my cup God is my portion you support me I don't need anybody else okay comes along the uh community and say okay look you see it very clearly it's it's in the rambam that if you want to become a member of the tribe of Ley even though you're not genetically a Ley you can and you're KES Kim and you throw off the burden of normal society you learn serve the nation we'll have to work out what do serve the nation mean does serve the nation mean you sit and learn Torah and the Torah protects the nation or to serve the nation mean you go out there you do kir you write books you you know engage with the people that's a good question but in theory you can be a volunteer Ley okay that's the that's the claim and it sounds from the rambam that that is possible and the rambam says the leim don't go to war and presumably he means that these people don't go to war either however there's another ramb which is a which is a a challenge which we'll need to look at right now look at number four over on page two says the r in anyone who thinks to themselves who decides that they're just going to learn they're not going to get a job the ster and they'll get payouts stalker the community will support them from ster they are they desecrate God's name and they are they're disgracing the Torah and they're erasing wiping out religion and they're causing terrible things for themselves and that's and they're not even going to go to if you're going to use Torah in that way it's a terrible and you're going to lose out you may not benefit physically materially from Torah in this world and then he quotes a whole bunch of sources mostly from if you if you benefit from Torah materially you'll be taken out from the world a the world to come but and they said don't use Tor as a crown toize yourself or as a tool as an ax to try and dig holes meaning you're using it to make your living when they said you should love work proper employment remunerative employment doesn't mean you hate the raban it means you you hate the idea you shouldn't want to be a RAV who wants to be a RV and just uh go into rabanus for a a living and he qu from because any tah that doesn't come together with a proper job you lose the T in the end and you will in end cheat and and and sin and it will all end up bad Aus you'll end up just steing from people why because you'll have no money you'll have to do everything on the black market you'll have no proper employment you'll have no proper income and you'll end up cutting corners and everything will be you know what you're doing in the name of Torah will end up a terrible okay so what do we do what do we do with those two rambam is somebody who sits and learns all day KES or they terrible so there are a different ways to uh to reconcile and harmonize the two first of all many people will tell me yes we'll tell you yes number four is in the rambam but we don't pass him that way because the and it's true by the way if you look and I brought you in the footnote already the Mish on the and L and the is the same person and AR says that we we don't askk in this way for many reasons we do take money for rabanus we do take money for learning we do take money for teaching and so many people will say that this rambam is is a theoretical rambam okay but how do you know the other rambam is not a theoretical rambam maybe we don't passan like that rambam either it's a bit difficult to be selective um but there is precedent to say we don't passan like this and you shouldn't really uh be concerned if you're taking money for Terah teaching Etc there are people who are very PID um and indeed the rambam does say that one thing you can get is if you're not doing something else you could be doing in order to teach Torah then you're entitled to be recompensed and remunerated up to the level that you would have received had you not given up the thing that you could do that you're now teaching Torah so this is on a personal level um the thing that I rely on the most if I watch it a stand up with the rambam in Haba I'll say to the rambam listen even though they didn't passan out the rambam I'm happy to pass the ramom because I used to be a corporate lawyer in the city of London and when it gets to the point that my salary approaches the same salary that I would have got as a corporate lawyer as a partner in a firm age 55 at that point I'm out you're right it's fine but so far that hasn't happened I live in Hope but I'm not but I'm not banking on it okay so maybe we don't pass it like that Rambo maybe um look at Rim kki in number five on the issue of the volunteer Ley look at what he says he says some interesting Horus which might be very important to us number five so he says don't fight and is very aware that there are many many sources that say that theim did go to war and we saw last week and I brought you later on that one of the heum that they send people back from the Army for it's a is a Cohen who married AA a Coen God who married a an Al Etc so we see that the co go to war so what's he talking about the to war it could be that the r agrees that c fight they're not obligated they can't be drafted but if they want to fight there's nothing wrong with them fighting now that's actually an interesting point because if you're going to put the community into the voluntary Ley category then this already opens up there's no problem if you feel you want to join the Army we'll support you in that it's just you don't have to join the Army that's already a Nuance which we may be coming out of Rim here and secondly he says in the second the third line here calls from this are not pulled out to go to war and he brings a few garas and I want you to see these because we're going to look at them in about 15 minutes why was punished and we his children had to serve as slaves in Egypt okay for 210 years he forced into the army okay we'll see that s soon and he also says why was punished because he forced the into the we're going to look at those two sources in a few minutes and see if if they really do what some people want them to do okay um and in the third point and this is how he harmonizes the argument he says what does it mean so look at the the three lines from the bottom of five he says the rambam doesn't think that they should just take handouts from the community no of course that's we saw in and he he criticizes that terribly what's the r saying you have to just do a smaller meaning other people have tolep on the subway and work for 15 hours a day you guys don't need to do that you need to do your but a lesser amount you meaning not everyone who works hard makes a lot of money no one who doesn't work hard makes a lot of money but not everyone who does work hard you need you need a Brer so he's saying of course you have to have meaningful employment but you just don't have to do it as much because you'll get that bro and I brought these because this is not just any Parish on the rambam this is raim kki who was until recently one of the leading G of the world so he passed away a couple of years ago and therefore I think that's an extremely important uh some important points to have here um a few other question questions one other way you could read the rambam he say is is that The KES kosim are the very few who are these people who can make themselves voluntary Levan so how many l were there in the people so if you do a little bit of maths you'll see that in the in the in B midbar the Ley was 22,000 out of around 63,000 that's around 3.65% so what's 3.65% of the Jewish people today that would be like the tribe of Ley so that's over half a million people so we don't have half aill million people in learning so I'm not sure the problem is that we have too many people we we don't have the proportion of leine okay so let's say there are 2 million Orthodox Jews in the world so this would come to around 73,000 so again that's you know we have a little bit more than that how we how are we dealing with the numbers how do we calculate the numbers Etc and who knows if they're in the many or if they're in the few and I brought you on page three some sources which I'm not going to look at in depth yes so but you're doing the percentages you're doing the percentage all the Jews well again you can decide how you want decide how no not just in Israel because all the Jews in the world are part of the one thing we've learned is that everybody's connected so the tribe of Ley in the Jewish people as a whole is a lot of people the problem sometimes is not that we have quotes unques too many people God forbid learning Torah it's not necessarily the right people learning Torah meaning some of the people who are learning Torah may be better on Wall Street and some of the guys on Wall Street maybe better in ponich the question is how to get these people into the right places to maximize their potential in so I brought you in page three which sources which we've been through before but a long time ago when we talked about um working versus learning and I just want to bring you one of the important ones of number six we'll read this quickly where there's always been this question do I learn full-time or do I work and learn part-time so number six it says you'll Gather in your grain in the what the ter were telling me I know I planted it I grew it I'm going to let it rot course I don't need to be told to gather in the grave no because it says in you may not at any point stop learning Torah go says you might have taken that literally says no says you have to have Torah not in the herian sense of Torah but Torah and a meaningful job that's R's View you're going to be a farmer do you know how many hours a day you're going to have to slep and work you're never going to learn what's going to be with Torah rather he says is actually a curse it's not a Mitzvah it's that if you're not doing what God wants you to do then you won't be able to learn all day you'll have to do your own work and lots more you'll do work even for the non-jewish people as their servants and their slaves and therefore is not a an aspiration it's it's something which is much very much Bev so how do we pasan do we go like RAB isma which is working in learning or do we go like R which is learning only so the the gar very critically answers at the end last line of number six many people followed RAB isma's approach which is working and learning and it worked out well for them but when when the many tried like didn't work for them okay so how do we P him like or like the Torah could have said the could have said drum roll he didn't say that it said look there's two different approaches there's the many and the few when you're talking about the many they have to have a job they have to work and learn but if you're talking about the few then they can go and in fact that's how the rules rules in number seven that you have to have a job he says once you finished DAV shakas and had a bit of breakfast go to work says go to work because if you don't go to work look at number seven go to work if you just have Torah and you don't have a living you'll end up cheating and stealing Etc like we said the Bish the Brewer brings down of course that's for the many but for the you they can sit and learn all day if there's someone who will support you they can sit and learn all day and not only they can but ran says they must and therefore you have this interesting kind of balance who's in the many and who's in the few and the kab community have basically told their own people you are the few which numerically is true you're talking about 150,000 people in full-time learning in Israel out of 15 a half million Jews K IU you are the few you have to do that you are following rimon the problem is the few can't just be people who sit and learn they have to also adopt this the voluntary lavy status look how you look at the r um lonstein says r l in number 10 the rambam sets a very high standard indeed he presents an idealized portrait of a selfless atemporal almost ethereal person ones whose spirit and intelligence have led him to divest himself of all worldly concerns to how large a segment of the Torah Community or a foror of any Community does this lofty typology apply 2% 5% can anyone who has negotiated the terms of a salary confront a mirror and tell himself that he ought not not to go to the Army because he's KES kosim sanctum sanctorum in the rambam's ter can anyone with even a touch of vanity or a concern for cover contend this meaning look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you're KES kosim and if you take out the time to do business to negotiate a salary to buy a property worth millions of dollars to go around buying properties for your children because they also need properties Etc then just ask yourself are you really KES kados is this really what he's talking about someone who's removed and detached from the world he says lest I be misunderstood let me stay clearly says raron I have no quarrel with economic aspirations or with normal human foibles say again least of all do I wish to single out biva for undeserved moral sens I'm not trying to be critical I do feel however that those who would single themselves out for exemption from normal duties on the ground of saintliness should examine their credentials by the proper standard very important Point meaning that mean what's that what would that mean I don't know you have to decide but you have to ask the question meaning I'm not telling you it that you're not KES kados maybe you are but you have to ask that question and don't forget the levim didn't have a portion in the land they didn't have economic wealth you can't have it both ways you can't and and and the 400 people who had the Army exemption in 1948 were indeed people without economic means people living without any other means to support themselves Etc the k Community today is a very successful Financial community barem and again Kan Yu that's great they Powerhouse and there a potential Powerhouse for the future but you again you cannot have it both ways you can't be a voluntary Ley and also say but I need to be in business and I need to make money etc etc so I brought you on page number four some um interesting counter examples for example we see that in the in the war on midan when the Jewish people are recruited to fight against mid number 11 l l l l mat you have to take a th from each tribe and rash say says there the rabis shaved Ley oh they were fighting against midan and I brought the Kuni who says that yes and you know this comes out in a few places the reason they're Exempted from a normal fight to inherit the land is because they don't inherit the land they don't get the land they don't have to fight but if it's not a war to inherit the land but it's another kind of war against midan than the Lan did fight so even if you say I'm a voluntary la and I don't have to fight there's different kinds of Wars some Wars they didn't fight some Wars they did fight and again thei clearly says it's only on the basis that they didn't have an inheritance in the land is that Exempted them from the fight and who is the person of the rambam gives us the ultimate example as the voluntary Ley look at number 15 he gave David David is the one who was the voluntary Ley did David fight or did he not fight so it sounds like he did fight but the gor says actually there came a point when he didn't look at what he did number 15 if it wasn't for DAV wouldn't have been able to go to war and if not for y his General would else learn Torah look at what David was doing David was being going doing Mish for his people the y y was out fighting why was able to do because was fighting and why was able to fight because David was doing SED mbat okay so David didn't just fight David did stay home but he didn't stay home and learn bakama all day he stayed home and did sish he was a public servant that's the point and and therefore that's another mindset shift and and in many ways the k Community does an awful lot of service for the public in in writings Forum Etc and that's great but that has to be a really ingrained mindset that we're here learning Torah with a view to doing sedal mbat for the population we have to be serving the population again does that mean you go out and do kir does that mean you write far does that mean you have to work that out but there has to be a mindset not that I'm I'm Exempted but I'm doing something very different which has to benefit the clown yes so you're making a very good point as you always make good points which is David David didn't start as a king doing sbat he started with a fight and he had to Fus with his just his correct so you have to work out how the David example fits with people should they be fighting when they're younger and then the problem is if they fight when they're younger not all of them will end to be able to be David so we don't need that many David AMS is true but anyway look at RAV um RAV LIN number 16 go over to page five admittedly says Rin in this gor the one we just read for Spirit the case for Spiritual exemption and the division of functions appears more clearly articulated however the engagement in Torah of which it speaks does not refute to purely contemplative study alone but to the implementation as well through the molding of a just and fair Society above all however this source is of little use to our Critics on the right because of its very protagonist if indeed they wish to posit David the heroic and sensitive Soldier scholar poet notary who Kaz whom kazal have so graphically portrayed in numerous context as the Prototype of the Contemporary Israeli Bor I shall have little quarrel with them you want to be David okay but then you have to be a DAV or at least an aspiring DAV can everybody do that so they may turn around and say well in order to get the the people at the top of the pyramid there has to be a pyramid that supports them that's a bigger discussion which is not for now um but R Lenin's point is very clear I think and in number 17 which I'm not going to read entirely because you can read this yourself R Lenin really uh Sidelines this source of the rambam of the voluntary Ley because he says first of all um the rambam has a very clear where he talks about who fights and who doesn't fight he doesn't mention anywhere there are Exempted from fighting so if the Ramba meant this as a Source he would have said it explicitly in and he wouldn't have left you just to imply it from the voluntary Ley source and secondly says ravenstein the the voluntary Ley is at the end of and at the end of every um section of Hal the rambam engages in more of a drash more of a it's not entirely drash and you can't just you know brush it away and say oh the rambam's not you know it's not Hal but it's a different kind of Hal and you can read yourself what R lonstein says about this in a in a technical uh way and he says this uh you can't necessarily bring from this Source in in the rambam and use it as a purely halakic Source um and then he says uh the last paragraph which I do want to read even if this contention is rejected however the ramban statement remains largely irrelevant to the Contemporary problem of hezer for it should be noted that the spirituality of the Ley does not preclude military service entirely it only absolves him from waging a war quotes like the rest of Israel at most he can be exempt from the gamut of Wars included within mil the Mitzvah mil per se this exemption has no bearing however upon his duty to help fight or prevent a defensive war that threatens the survival of his community and his peers it is a is a spiritual order excused from saving human lives and this is a point that we made last week which is even if you get into a debate about voluntary warah an obligatory War there's a stage even above that which is a war that everybody body needs to fight in order to protect us existentially and said even of course the have to fight that war and then we have to work out what is the world that we're in and and I don't know CU I'm not a politician and I'm not a military expert but you know on sukus before October 7th I don't think anybody in Israel really felt a sense of existential threat and now we do is that just psychological but we really don't need to be concerned or is that real I don't know the answer to that I know that we all feel differently from everybody I've spoken to um so we'll see and RF cook uh who I want to finish this section with RF cook if you remember last week wrote to the chief Rabbi of uh Britain Rabbi Herz and said you must try to get the Jewish soldiers Exempted from the British Army and and that R cook was quoted by people in the 1940s who wanted to tell the boys not to enlist into the hag so look at this Rook ruk says at the end of shabas number 18 of course similar to the rambam at the end of his laws of he he he talks about the broader scenario the even though the sh the tribe of Le don't go out to fight the war that's talking about a specific private war I'm on number 18 okay so oh maybe means B no means baz so the the the the um the place so let's have a look now on page number six I'm sorry that the the uh copying flipped over some of the lines I'm usually pretty careful not to do that but I'll I'll change it so the right one goes online okay so that's the Lan you can you know look at those sources and think about them that's a major source then there are a few agatic statements which are very interesting first of all uh I just want to briefly mention um a very interesting a remember when ysf meets parro it's number 19 and and he took some of his brothers five of his brothers and he brings them to who are the brothers that he brings to meet look at Rashi he brought the weaklings the weak brothers so they wouldn't look strong because if they look strong they'd get recruited into the to the Egyptian Army and he wanted to avoid the draft into the Egyptian Army and who are the weaklings here they are ruin shim Ley how do I know those that didn't double up the name when he blesses them at the end of his but the names of the he repeat it because of and he brings you the example of yud and God andali and D and and as so the weaklings were the ones who didn't have their name doubled up Ruben shim Etc then he says rash is very unusual this rash Rashi says but that's the Israeli explanation of who the brothers were the but in the B the version of this it read the other way around which is the people who have their names mentioned twice with the weak ones they need it's a very interesting perspective the a perspective is we repeat the name because of the and theik perspective is that we repeat the name to give them some because that's what they need so it turns out it wasn't ruin and shim and Le Etc it was the other ones who had their names doubled so there's an obvious question which is if you're going to take Lings in front of parro to so they don't get recruited into the army who you going to take shim and Ley Shimon and Ley who singlehandedly smashed the whole of Shem they are the last people that you would expect to take so I remember I heard from Rabbi gold so he said no that's the whole point this is the aat Isel Shimon and Le in ER Israel were strong because they were in ER Israel but when they went to gas when they went to Egypt they were weaklings their strength came from the fact that they were in ER Israel and that's why D it's a very beautiful point and it comes out of this Rashi that that that emphasizes the difference between Eric Israel and galut but either way parro was trying to keep them out of the army I I saw from R ja's article the rabbi ysf Blau from whyu I'm sure many of you know Rabbi Blau he gave a very interesting explanation that of course Yos is trying to keep them out of the Mitsy Army because it's not our Army it's not our fight meaning when they criticize Abraham we'll see in a minute for recruiting a whole bunch of random people to try and defend lot to bring lot back why don't they criticize Abraham he was also learning Torah he also took time off no he had to take time off because it was his family that was in trouble the people he recruited okay he was just distracted there was not their family similarly we're not mitm it's not our fight which comes down to the question that I started with is it your fight is it your battle is it your community you have to decide yes or no if it's like mm then no if it's not if it's like Abraham lot then yes and don't forget Abraham was Lot was not you know someone who was the highest moral caliber and yet nevertheless he was very much worth uh fighting for and saving so that's one uh perhaps lesser known midrash on this issue but there are something very important ones number 21 yes no again it's just saying that if you can get out of the army should get out of the army it's a mid you don't want to you you don't want people you don't want the Jewish people in an army you don't want them in the mitz Army okay and that's why R cook was trying to get them out of the British army it's a different kind of situation but look at number 21 very important Source what does it mean our legs were on your your Gates who is it that causes us that gives us the strength to be able to win in a war and we mustn't lose f sight of that we wasn't allow other things that irritate and upset us even deep more deeply to lose sight of the fact that it is the learning of the Torah which ultimately is essential it's not the only thing but it's essential in order for us to won the war let's not throw the baby out with a bath water as it were by trying to say no no you're just you know distracted by this this is a very fundamental idea yes the appear anywhere in these arguments you know that's interesting point yes yes it does it's actually the the source that we never got to at the end of the first part which I'm going to put in the third part which is the Mitzvah of where R talks about the the imperative of you to look out for the other and no all and bear their burden and be there for them it does very much figure absolutely we just didn't get to it yet and that's why I haven't mentioned it yet but we will get there it was lent to be online last week's sh but thank you for for for raising it it'll be on next week's sh but more importantly than is a a couple of sources we saw let's have a look at number 22 why was um punished and why were we enslaved in Egypt because he PR the and that's the POS that he got all these other people and the ran says they he brought them out to war people who were learning studying in Abraham's ashram Yeshiva whatever he had there studying the he pulled them all out to war however that's just one opinion says no he we were enslaved in Egypt because Abraham doubted Hashem Hashem said you'll inherit the land he said how do I know oh that was the reason wasn't it to do with the war completely different thing that that didn't take the people from s remember what said I'll keep the people and you can take the money and Abram said I'm not taking a thing no see he says you should have taken the people and left the money because all those people who stayed with stone what do you think happened to them that's why you've been punished and your children in Egypt so when you're pulling out an aaic statement which says that AB ainu is punished and we were punished because he made go to war that's one of a number of different approaches and we'll talk in a minute about whether any of this type of source is relevant or not that's one angle but also there's another angle which is what's an Angar so the ran said it's drafting them to war but others say no even if you take the view that he's punish because of this angaria look in 23 the shet it brings angaria means a Agra you're not getting paid he enslaved them he made them work it's nothing to do with the war he made them work rather than paying them for their actions and the Karen Ora flip over to page seven says yes that's the mided mid just like aru forced to do me to menial work without propably compensating them nothing to do with the army so two we were made to do meaning menial work without being compensated and in fact if you look in 25 I'm not going to read this in now is that this idea of of recruiting a to as in an angaria there's a story of uh one of the uh one of the Amur I think benum who was very rich but he was very humble and he would only learn Torah and he would dress in a very poor way and he would SLE on his back cuz that's how he wanted to live and his own servant won the war and now at the end of the war he had to take down a fortification that Basha the king of Israel had made and then reuse the stones to rebuild two other cities that was the angaria same idea that he forced the into menial labor in order to do his work nothing to do with fighting in a war the war was already won it's not even relevant and even if you say it is relevant that this really is a war scenario Mar number 28 says yeah but that's it's always going to be different in Mitzvah so I'm just bringing you these ideas to say that we can't really put too much St stock on on on these these aaic sources because they mean many different things there's not one way of understanding them um and there are others that go in the opposite direction look at sh Shor in 29 where she says who does she praise she Praises from came judges who came from to fight the war against is s the pen pushers the m s the Sim came who are The Sim I brought you 3031 the classic look at the who are the people that came voluntarily number 1 even the scribes about people who didn't really know how to fight but they came anyway cuz they joined the fight and she Praises them for that so don't just bring um a few midrashim in a way which is one-sided and um could be interpreted in many different ways I brought you uh for a little bit of uh interest historically and again I'm very sorry that the kind of thing got out of line a little bit if you want a nicer version of this uh Source sheet where everything's back in line then just send me a send me an email and I'll send it to you um a famous meeting between the konish and Boran where the konish in 1952 uh benguan went to see The KES and uh he writes that he went to see have a look here number 33 this morning I went to benra for a meeting with the Kish I brought you from Marv from that that day the Press thought it was a sensational visit and I encountered crowds along the way around the house a group of his followers waited outside in the nearby rooms y n was the only one that came in with me I asked him the question to which I've yet to receive a sufficient answer from my observant friends we are divided in different ways in the matter at hand we are divided by our views of religious tradition there are Jews like you and like me how do we live together how will we become a unit how will become a unit and there's the the the famous story that K is said to him look if there are two camels who are both coming with to to get a a mountain pass which one takes presidence the camel with the burden has goes first so we the community the Torah Community are carrying the burden of the m s you're not carrying that burden so we should be given priority as it were so Boran says okay but that's not the only burden and I put you in 34 he says like what about uh sorry before 34 what about absorbing the immigrants what about security what about establishing the state are these not burdens okay so that's a that's a pretty meaningless argument because my burdens are bigger than your burdens it it will not get anywhere by using that argument and by the way will not get anywhere by doing what benguan is trying to do he says how can we make ourselves one cohesive un it that is like a red rag to a bull okay if anyone wants to achieve anything in going forward with the K draft they've got to drop this narrative that we want to be just one unit we don't need that anymore it's not uniformity we're looking for it's Unity which means we're not trying to be the same that kind of Melting Pot idea of Boran again is just going to shut the whole argument down and there are still people on the left and in the secular world that that are you know we want all to be the same people you know that's not going to work and that's not helpful just one last thing because I feel guilty that it's nearly pm and I never mentioned anything about porm okay that there is a whole analysis which we had two sheim on we've covered a lot of ground are you allowed do you learn halic ideas from a now the shavit Ley idea was more because it had was in the Rambo but these last things we've been reading have been agadas what why was Abraham punished why was Assa punished um are we allowed to learn that and normally speaking the answer to that is no and one of the examples is brought from millat Esther which actually uh I brought you in number 36 there is a Yami which I brought in 35 that says we don't learn from Aus and tus asked a question based on uh on Esther remember she goes into AOS willingly and morai says to her until now I I understand you've been forced to go the king forced her to come and according to the aad which is um the morai was married to Esther when she was forced effectively raped by aash then what could she do she wasn't any more prohibited to morai because she was a married even though she was a married woman she God forbid she'd been raped but now m is telling her you got to go willingly and offer yourself willingly and she says I'm going to be lost so learned that means you do realize that at this point you're asking me to commit adultery to save the Jewish people and then that's going to be it between us so tus come up with a very tus like question number 36 the iner you could ask am I larisha why didn't he just divorce her just divorce her avoid the whole problem you know okay we'll have a divorce and we'll get remarried afterwards why not he could take her back he's not a Cohen if he was a Cohen I understand he's not aen and he gives an answer because the get would have been public because you need Aid him he was scared that it would get out and the whole point is he needs to retain secrecy for the whole thing to work and I brought you on the last page well people say no he didn't really need the aidm what what and but the bottom line is you can't learn from AAS you can't ask these kind of halakic questions oh we could given because that's not what A is for aad is in order to teach us values hashas important values philosophical ideas theological ideas and they're very very critical and crucial but you can't really use them in order to make a halakic point and and that's actually uh an important part of the debate okay we covered a lot today everyone's been very quiet I assume that you've been like focusing and concentrating but I I need to stop our time is up next week I wish you a I'm hope that we will find a way to be able to celebrate it in a way that works for all of us and in two weeks from now we will finish this topic and then ease ourselves in to something more p