Transcript
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okay
good afternoon everybody so as we
prepare for a shop as precious Emma we
have an unbelievable topic but really
but we don't have real uh so much time
to to uh cover it properly so let's do
our best the uh it's very interesting
the last name of the
Wasa David
you know where the name as lie stands
for
thank you very much
stands foreign
our vernacular we have our own
definitions of azina but the in the very
specific definition of a zeino what's a
Zina azina make yourself comfortable
okay
is a Zion is a woman who had relations
with someone
who not just she's not allowed to have
not allowed to have relations with
but someone who
who by living with them it's a love
that's alive across the board for any
woman
but it has to be an isser of relation in
other words if a woman lives with a
behemoth she does not become a Zona if a
woman lives
or a non-jewish woman is considered a
zaina or a Jewish woman that lives with
an Adam that she's not going to marry
but has been is
so for example
if somebody if a man lives with a single
woman even if she's a kadesha which
means she's mafika herself
uh the Marcus
right
she would get malcus but she doesn't
become a zoner so in other words if
someone is mizana with a kadesha with a
woman who who's promiscuous promiscuous
so then she does not become a Zona even
though they they would get Marcus for a
living with each other
and she doesn't become a Zona and she
doesn't pass all to Kahuna ah but if
someone a woman who has relations with
any of the Lavin that are Chavez
and are not particular to kohanim
so then for example a woman who lives
with a guy
even one time
becomes a Zina
right she becomes a sinner so a Colleen
is now to live with a woman
it's a
very big problem you know you have Bali
chuba
and who knows what the woman did
beforehand
so a woman who once had a relation with
a guy
's not a Mario she always stays right
she says
even if she becomes Jewish we're not
Jewish she was Jewish a Jewish one A
non-jewish Woman by definition
a Jewish woman who once had relations
with a Jew with a guy is a zaina and a
kind cannot marry her okay
what
believe me he could marry you a lady
yeah it's only a Cayenne yeah
um you saw Canary a woman who had
relations with a guy but a coyan cannot
marry a woman who even one time had
relations with a guy now just by way of
introduction this is a very interesting
Indian the Avenue Loom has a suffix we
know there are certain Jews who have the
halachic status of goyam for example for
example let's say you have a mumeral
let's say you have a Jew who's Michael
of shabbosia
now says that nowadays it's very hard to
attain the status of amoomar because in
our generation most cases people are
Tino
and nobody gave them a proper hasra and
nobody giving them proper and they never
had the proper education but let's say
you have somebody who sort of grew up
knowing and they went off and they
became a Mumma and the Mahal of
has a status of a guy for uh for yayan
in other words if you have if you're at
a table say their table and you invite
someone to your table and they they
drive on Chavez so very nice you want to
be Macabre them but in the meantime
while they're picking up wine they
render it uh you can't drink the wine
fine but in terms of
but in terms of in terms of mumma the
halachic status of mumar what would be
listen to this
you have a woman
she's a balastuva she once had relations
with a Jewish guy
but that Jewish guy that she had
relations with was a Mumma so for all
intents and purposes he's a guy so now
maybe she's a zyna can you imagine this
says right we said that a woman who has
relations with a guy
is a Zina midday Raisa well says what
about a woman who has relations with
saying
is a guy
does that also make him a Zina
[Music]
yeah he's a guy
says
imagine that well you have a um tubali
chuva one of them you know learned for
10 years in uh the woman spent 10 Years
Learning in seminary she was about but
beforehand she had relations now I think
it was a yid but he was a Mumma now it's
not going to be
no no that's the case the case was she
was um she had relation was a man who
was a mumar again says in our generation
to have this level of mumar is very rare
but if you found the guy let's say yeah
he grew up in uh he grew up from and he
knew and he went off and he's like
American
okay this is by way of introduction
he loses the status of yeah
to me is someone that speaks against uh
yeah this guy yeah but the the okay but
the definition of mummer is not what a
mummer is to you
that's why I'm against me
I'm asking you no you told me what a
mummer is too so I'm saying a mummer
that's why I want to be corrected
all right
Umar is someone who opposes a Tyra
technically speaking if someone came
over to a guy and said look you um sir
you know the God created the world and
he gave laws and you gave him a proper
and he says fine I respect you I don't
you're a Mumma yeah but he doesn't
really know that's what we're saying in
this generation
today okay
the dinner might be someone absolutely
but nevertheless if a woman would live
with a halach mumar that would render
her azina so if you live with a guy
that's designed a direiser if you live
with you strong Umar that would be uh
comes along the Sam Cipher
wants to know you ready for this
husband and wife
beautiful fam beautiful couple wonderful
people they're not from
they're not from
and the husband dies
She Wants to Marry a Cayenne say why not
she's a wonderful girl great me those
and now she's about super Tibet
yeah but she used to be married
to a Mumma so if you're gonna say again
enough enough enough we're talking about
if there was a move Okay so
who says that if you're married that if
you're mazana with Israel Muma that
would render the woman of zynomial
so then maybe not only if your mazana
with a woman not only few uh with a
woman who had relations with the Mumma
but let's say a woman who is married to
a mummer and now she became an almana
maybe also she can't marry a Cayenne
because she had relations with a guy for
practical purposes
is very hard to accept
why
because then it would come out listen to
this
imagine you have a Cayenne
who married a woman
yeah
I'm fine no nice Jewish woman they're
not from then they go to Akira seminar
and they start to be Mercado al-tyra or
Mitzvahs and they become balichuva so
the rabbit says wonderful welcome back
to the fold the only thing is you have
to divorce your wife because she had
relations with you and you were a mumma
he should have to divorce her
and then we'd be locking the door
business
so says
would say that in this case the client
can't live with her then we would not
have the right to question it but it's
not fear social justice liberal I don't
care we don't we don't enter we don't
say these kind of things but where we
don't have explicit precedence
of some server we're entitled to say you
know what it's not logical to
extrapolate into a case where you're
making it unfair for people to do chuva
so therefore the some side for seriously
questions whether we could use this
Avenue whether it's correct because
taking it to its logical end it would
mean not only could a Cayenne not marry
a woman who lives with uh Israel mumar
not only could he not live with a woman
who is married to you so much
can't even live with his own wife
and that would not be uh appropriate
okay she was a calling he was a coin
they weren't from
she was a bicycle Hannah that's that's
not relevant to the today
no
Okay so
we're going to talk about a very very
common child and that is like this you
have a cayenne and a woman they got
married they're ballet people they send
their kids to yeshivas
but they're Bali shuva and One Fine Day
the woman goes to Ashira
and the guy says where are you going I'm
going to a show again you're going to
show every night you go to shawanna no I
have to go to this year she goes to this
year and in the share the Rabbi says
that a Cayenne cannot live with a woman
who had relations with a guy and she
says uh oh
I'm a good girl now
but you know in the last in my previous
lifetime before I became abalashuva she
knows what she did
now the question is does she have to
break it to her husband because if she
does break it to him if he knew that she
had relations with a guy he would not be
able to stay married to her so now the
question is does she break it to the
husband no
so Mr Nathan paskins no you have to
discuss it with you wrong okay
[Laughter]
so let's see so this question was
raised to the title yes
she married
she didn't know it was awesome and then
she found that afterwards is there a
hectare not to tell her husband okay
something that happens every day
everything okay so advice this question
was
the other says that um you should know
um a case happened came before me a
woman was about Suva she said she was
mazana with an outcome before her
marriage and then she married a coyan
she didn't realize that she can marry
the Cayenne
[Music]
look in the day
okay so he says now before the
antifrey before the she learned that a
woman who had relations with the guys
but she didn't tell the husband yet and
you can imagine the young thing was not
Mama
her knowing that you know she may be the
next carving High Giga and
the question is like this should she
tell the husband
now if the husband is not going to
believe her it's a habitsara but what if
the husband will believe her and to add
insult to injury this is a couple a very
depressed couple maybe not stable they
don't have children
and this is going to cause them
tremendous Tsar they're in a matzova
that could cause them you know emotional
great emotional distresses
what do we do in this case
they do not have children but because of
that they're very depressed in general
and this will really you know knock them
over this will destroy them so what's in
this case
what is a halakh on this case
so we have to know
in general let's say you have a husband
and wife
and one day the wife says hey I had
enough of you
that's over with
over with Over My Dead Body I'm Gonna
Keep I mean you're stuck so she said how
am I gonna get out of this she said yeah
well I was mazana and you're you're also
to me so you have to divorce me now
well if a woman tells her husband that
she was mazane do we believe a woman or
do we not believe a woman if we were
gonna believe a woman who tells her
husband she was mazana then any woman
who didn't like her marriage has a very
easy escape hatch she could just make up
a Bubba Meister that she was mazanabara
so she she had a extramarital relation
and then you know we're gonna Force the
guy to give a get
uh
so but it is
at least has a way out any woman married
to a client who says she was violated uh
we know a client is now to live with so
his wife who is violated so any woman
who's married to gun who doesn't like
the marriage could make up a maisa
so what are we gonna do though what are
we gonna say we don't believe her what
if it happened
so this was a very big historical
quandary
and the mishna says because out of fear
that any woman could just absolve the
marriage easily
you don't believe it prove it but what
do you mean but maybe she was Miss Anna
and their living minister
we don't believe a woman you don't
believe her you know why because maybe
she was walking down the block and she
saw another guy that she liked better
and she's making up a story but she's an
honest woman
doesn't matter
he says the same thing no it doesn't
destroy the marriage but he can get rid
of it
he says
of course we don't believe that that's
dummy's house no she's my dad she admits
I don't spell then
normally you know if we should normally
believe it with that man wants it to get
out of it no it doesn't do anything it
doesn't do anything isn't there a
general principle you can't testify
against yourself so you wouldn't accept
a word against himself no but this would
be different because
we'll see we'll see look in the mission
the mission that says in the diamond
that is a very important mission
in the beginning they would say
is
three women they leave and they take
their Siva foreign
if a woman says you know it's been nice
but I just I gotta tell you that we
can't be together anymore because uh I
was Mazama yesterday so and originally a
woman who said that what she leaves and
she gets aksuba skipped a linear
they retracted
because we're worried that women will be
devious and plotting and cunning and
they'll see somebody down the street
that they like better so this makeup so
when they come with us come to us with
this maisa that she was mazana we say
you're a liar we don't believe yeah but
what if she she puts on the best show
she says you know I have to remind her
that you know I was I want to I'm coming
to do chuva Avis and she's crying and
she's
we say you're a liar she puts on the
best act in the world will give her an
Academy Award but we don't believe her
we don't believe it but what if she's
represent so-and-so we don't believe her
we don't believe any woman in the world
every single woman who says the story we
say you're a liar
[Music]
now what's somewhat problematic is the
fact
now this year might not be for the
general audience but what's somewhat
problematic is what the mishna says that
she gets to exuber she says she was
mazana Bharat sign right the mission
started off three women take their tsuba
if she says she was mazana Bharat sign
she doesn't get aksuba a woman who has
uh is mazanea willingly loses herksuba
who says she was nanas
okay so originally she would leave and
get her Suba and khazawar masaken that
because we're afraid a woman would see
someone else that what's the we do not
accept her story so therefore yes sir
a woman who comes and tells her husband
who's a Cayenne that she lives with a
guy and she's a Zona and therefore
she cannot stay married to him we don't
believe her we do not believe her
but in this case is it Cecilia
how can we not believe this woman it's
so believable she's been an airlift
woman for 10 years and then she's
sitting at a sheer and at the sheer the
rub happened to be talking about
how a woman who lived with a guy is also
to a cayenne and she immediately turns
pale and she faints and hatsella has to
come and we revive her and we say why'd
you faint and she says because I've been
living my whole life for answer and I
don't know what to do and she starts
crying
so what we're not going to believe her
in this case it's so believable
we'll give her an award best actress of
the year but we still don't believe her
that's what hazal say no matter how true
the story looks no matter how authentic
she seems to be no matter how genuine it
is we say she's lying and she's allowed
to continue living with her husband and
and that and she he doesn't believe her
she doesn't believe it
no she brings Aiden it's a different
story but but as long as she says so
says that sits elieza this is very
similar to the following case in the
night to be who the look at number 10.
talked about the following case
Isha
is
cases a woman she's on her deathbed you
hear this case a woman on her deathbed
she's about to die
and she confesses that one time they had
a Michele look in the house and he was
my honest her
and now does the husband have to divorce
her
says tonight what in the world are you
talking about why should this woman be
Usher it's a joke it's like be used
because she says it was behind us she's
not upstairs to her husband she says a
pressure hitter she said she had
relations with the guy but she's the we
only know through her and she says it
was an itis
maybe you're talking about
a case where we knew anyway there was so
we don't believe her that it was born
his name is
that not similar LMI you're talking
about uh Asia's Cayenne
foreign
she's thinking to herself maybe at least
for two seconds I'll be married to the
guy I wanted to be married to
and therefore we say she's lying and
even though it looks so as accurate and
the cover qadisha comes and says
and she says I have one last thing to
say and that is
50 years ago someone was my honestly
sorry and now let me say sorry we don't
believe you and then announcing tonight
so
it says chakra
one second now specifically in this case
I know
and then where she she's coming and
saying she has tightness on her husband
that her husband doesn't give her enough
money on her credit card and she has
other kindness on the husband because
certainly in this case we say she might
be lying even though she's saying it in
her illness even though she's saying it
a shamnu imagine she's on her death
we don't believe her it's a story it's a
hoax says
if she's not lucid
then some shoes Meshuggah we can't
believe her and if she's lucid
then should we say maybe she's Lucid
enough to come up with this Ploy it says
and I didn't
this woman is Mozart's her husband and I
don't understand why you're so quick to
jump to answer this woman to her husband
the clown and Chassis a woman who comes
with the story that she's out to your
husband we don't believe her
because in this case if in the case of
the noise
we are
finger like this
he says like this in a case where a
woman says she was mazane
we say we don't believe her
even though not only is can he not live
with her she can't live with him
and we say no we don't believe you
certainly in this case
where he is allowed to live with her and
it's she who can't live with him
or maybe she can live with him as we'll
see certainly in this case we're not
going to believe it now well for this we
have to see that we shine him in
and that is look at taiswas the nadaram
on page on a look at number 12.
and number 12 it says like this and
number 12
the uh
asks a very interesting question says
timer
why is she not believed
she is placing on herself a captain
if a woman says
that I married you and he says I never
married you he is muttered to her
relatives and she is also to his
relatives that love is like this let's
say we walk into the room
and we have this water in the room
everyone is drinking the water why not
it's kosher water and I say I'm not
drinking the water
Pig juice
said pictures we just all opened it up
here
oh the pig juice
so everyone's looking at the guy like
he's crazy
now how to drink it because it's a rule
of should we say
he plays on her a
means a person is not if a person says
about something
that something is awesome
they make an answer to themselves
whether it is us or whether it's not us
sir there's a concept and chance of say
that means if a person maintains that
something is understood whether it is or
not
they have in effect made a nether that
this item is that this item is also even
if everyone knows it's kosher right you
have a water if a guy says this in that
water it's hazard
to them it becomes us so imagine if a
woman says to a guy that that you
married me
the guy says I never married you he's
allowed to live with her sister he's
allowed to live with her mother because
he says that he never married her but if
she says you married me she cannot live
with any of his relatives
so if in this case the woman says
that I'm Tommy how could she live with
him
she made herself answer
me myths and a very important concept
the issu of zaina in this week's parisha
is different than all others in the Tyra
all others
are just like he can't marry her she
can't marry him
for example your sister you can't marry
your sister your sister can't live with
you
all Arias are two-way streets except for
zyna Zina is a one-way Street the
Cayenne can't live with designer
designers
so because I'll say that if a woman says
I'm a zoner to you
he doesn't believe her so now he's
allowed to marry her so the question is
the hell could she marry him the answer
is because it is a one-way Street this
resign is only he can marry her and if
this case because I'll say he doesn't
believe her so he can live with her and
she could always live with him that's
what
after America yes the marriage
absolutely you just said he can't marry
her no if a woman says to me Anila again
they're married already she came in with
a mice that she's a Zina from past so he
doesn't believe her but still but she's
saying I can't live with you no she's
not in marriages
why would it be not they married because
if they were in living or if they
weren't already married he wouldn't be
able to marry her
but they did marry
so the fact that they're already there's
no the condition is
just you're not a statement
no condition is Thai face
if a client marries a Zona they're
married just don't know how to stay
married they have to divorce but the
marriage is effective so in this case
she says when you married me I was a
Sina say he doesn't believe her I bet
Isis asks but she can't stay married to
him very nice he doesn't believe her but
she knows about herself she didn't have
could she stay married the answer is the
Easter design is a one-way street azina
is allowed to live with a kind it's the
kind who can't live a designer but since
I say he doesn't believe her they stay
fetiris this is very important the
Terrace
house
he can't take her
but now the question is
but the gemara says in yavamus
that anything he's not allowed to do
she's not how to do there's a clown in
our eyes
and number two
is that this woman eats truma because if
she's not gonna eat truma then people
are going to speak bad about the
children that they're not going on him
but how could she eat rumor
according to her testimony she's a zaina
and the Zen is not ichuma
he doesn't believe her but she believes
herself
he can't do he doesn't put stick truma
down her throat she he puts the tumor in
front of her and now she wants to eat it
how could she eat it she ready believe
it you gotta do what I tell you no not
that far not that far
right right so so truma
listen to what taister says unbelievable
says Tyson
venerally
because we're worried she was so devious
that she's making up a story because she
wanted to marry someone else
so because I were afraid that every so
in other words the question is how could
she stay married to this guy but anytime
he can't live with her she can live with
him
the answer is
the answer is like this
why
why our actions
what made her resigner is someone was my
answer
when
well this is talking about an Asus kahin
um when she was married
because someone who's my honest stama
woman she doesn't become asotokai and
unless it was a guy
say because we're so worried that she's
being so devious that she wants to make
herself also to the Cayenne we're
worried so you know what gazelle did
they uprooted the marriage of a Freya
and they said like this you married her
harrietiously could as much of Israel we
say that if you ever come and say that
someone was you we retroactively uproot
the marriage to begin with you were
never married to this man Le mafrea and
therefore you were never a nanas while
you were married
are not allowed to do that
because
and here they're saying
that this man could live with this woman
can't do that only as a like Carmel but
not as a permanent that any woman who
ever makes up a story that someone was
her they can absolve the marriage of my
Freya says
in this case it's so so pressing
come and broke the rules
and they said the marriage is terminated
either not allowed to you're right
they would never do such a thing if not
for how much we really suspect that
women could be deceiving and conniving
and try to get out of the marriage then
any woman wants to get out of marriage
will make up this nice uh so we we broke
the marriage of my Freya
this is just
numbers yeah it says
with the way Duran explains at number 11
you take a look later okay the round
Compares that right I'll say the Rand
says
the answer is in this case
in this case
they uprooted the marriage Le mafreya
because called The Mechanics
if you look in touch this
so we'll see we're also consistent we're
also they're not allowed to normally do
it but yeah they made an exception yeah
yeah
how did anybody ever get married if
women were so devious no we're it still
applies right look at this then early
the kivan they will see men are also we
suspect men of doing it also we'll see
that let's not we're not picking
generally
is
so so first of all ceciliazer says you
know why she shouldn't tell him because
we don't believe a woman when she says
she become author to the husband
even in a case of the night to be who
though we will look so believable it was
so believed she said it on her deathbed
in her vidoy she said
we still don't believe her
foreign
we're talking about a woman who claims
before she was married she had relations
with a guy we're talking about is
foreign
that's a 2A is Sir a woman who's meta
the fact that a client cannot live with
a woman a wife who is Nanas that's a 2A
yes sir and even so we don't believe her
in this case it's much better you know
why
because like this
the that's it the lesson said that the
Israel is a one-way Street
is only he can live with design but his
only can live with him
how do we understand that why is the
Israel different than every other
why are other is surim are two-way
streets and this is there's a one-way
Street
I don't have worked perfectly he can't
live without the chicken with him the
two of the living together no he's
violating no so it's like this yeah but
he's allowed to live with her you know
why because he doesn't say he shouldn't
believe her that she's a zioner
why but but if she is why don't we say
that if
why don't we say that well very nice I
live with the client but a kind can't
live a designer ziney can't live with
answer is very simple
the answer is we know that when it comes
to the Issa of
cutting off pass let's say
both the one who has their payus cut off
and
the one who does it they're both user
but what about a cotton
a cotton I'm glad I have the pace cut
off
right
so what about the one who gives it a
haircut
oh so how long is he's also he's not
doing anything wrong why because he is
so the market is only if he's making
that person to anavera but if he's not
making that person to navera he's also
added to it
so the same thing with the Instagram
is
normally mostly suresina
designer can't live with him why
because the same way he can't live with
her she can't help him do an answer
but in this case
he's allowed to live with her you know
why he's allowed to live with her
because I'll say
so if he's allowed to live with her
she's not helping him do another
when do we say the rule that whenever he
can live with her she can't live with
him that's where she's helping him doing
this sir but in this case she's not
helping him doing this because he's not
a believer
even if he believes that he's not
allowed to believe her so there's no
issue here so okay can I add anything
extra because he doesn't believe he's
not a lot to believe her because I'll
say he's not a Believer so and in fact
unless it's an impossibility no but no
but the question is even if she's not if
he's not a Believer but she can't live
with him
because designer can't live with a kind
the answer is a Zona can only announce
but why why
no because now why why is it only a
one-way street it's only a one-way
street because the Issa two-way street
is only a two-way street is only if
you're abetting him if you're helping
him doing this sir but in this case
she's not helping him doing this sir
possible for him for her to help him
because he's not a lot of people fine
but just understand that normally the
Eastern are two-way street why is it
different here
because here the Easter Zina is normally
a Zion is helping him doing this sir but
in this case she's not helping him do an
answer added with
fact that says it said so yes sir
now we don't use this Hector by itself
but the maristam says that nowadays
fake guys
and we really don't know who's a client
So based on all these qualities
like Mr Nathan paskin in the beginning
says she doesn't tell him
and I but what do you mean could they
live together with a clear conscience
absolutely clear she doesn't have to
worry because
that if she tells him that she was
mazana with a guy he doesn't believe her
mamela he's not answer to her mamela
she's not also to him and even though
clappy smile guy when they get up to
Shania on the video it will show they
were not ushers because in this case let
her keep it to herself
right let her follow the usual practice
that uh
should keep her mouth closed not say
anything and is she hiding anything
she's not hiding because even if she
would say he would not be believer
anyway he's not getting an answer she's
not getting it and they live together
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