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#1- Rabbi YY Keller: Alter Rebbe's Discourses: History & Recording, Manuscripts -RC Dalfin
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welcome to meaningful interviews I'm Kim
Dophin RAB Dophin I'm here today with a
great kabad
scholar a Bena a real
Bena someone who
has put his time and effort into
understanding the TOA on the highest
level and it's an honor to be here in
Carl Springs
Florida we both grew up in CR in
Brooklyn and we know each other a long
time but Rabbi Keller RAB Keller has
written over 20 books on many subjects
on many
topics and what I find most amazing this
is the truth is that much at least what
I see and what I relate to is things
that most other people don't know you
know there are there are regular
Yesa the regular masim
teachers but there are not many people
who know you
know Jewish
history dabble in
Caba um
in and within these uh
subjects that you bring to the table um
a different angle a very interesting
angle so that's why I'm very interested
in this uh in this interview so I want
to begin RAB Keller with asking you the
following I know that you have done a
lot of research on the balat the
alman's um life and in particular his
discourses his
my that he said for many years and I
believe that most laab
most have no clue about this you know
you
learn you dabble a little bit here
little there shabas morning morning and
M and you go
further but I want to ask you
is for how many years approximately or
if you know
exactly did zman the founder of the
kabat movement for how many years did he
teach and
say no as myam please okay so
practically since uh he had students he
used to give MIM but the earliest MIM
that we have is obviously the Tanya
which he actually wrote the first uh I
would say four uh 39 chapters of the
Tanya more specifically chapters 1 to 29
chapter 31 and chapter uh chapters uh 3
3 to 41 altogether 39
chapters uh were ready uh were released
by the
B uh together with the early version
of which uh there's proof
that
the were written prior to that part of
the T and an early version of Thea were
released in t what's the English date uh
the English date would be uh
1792 thank you at at L right right
before Rashana um where most of the
Tanya was called Tanya godal the big
Tanya and the uh early version of the
gach Chua was called Tanya cotton and it
came out in a book form at the time or
in Contra and pamphlets well it was
basically uh a book form meaning written
by in pamphlets but but as as a as a
running book so to speak um okay so
that's about the Tanya now let's talk
about the my the discour so the
discourses that we have dated in other
words dates the earliest date we have
appeared in a
manuscript is uh
from right after he had released this
Tanya it happens to be the day of the
passing of rabbits and verb's daughter
and it could be that it could very much
be that that particular discourse was
said as a g as a farewell as a farewell
to her but in any case it's the only one
that we know that the date is written
that it's Sam Galia and from then on
till till t b that's for 20 complete
years we have more or less um discourses
now from that year we only have the
discourses of let's say of 3 months um
now we know that Dal continued writing
the Tanya
uh and
there's the it's from the of the that
the AL made the on the T he completed
the first part of the T
on so apparently the other chapters even
if he wrote them technically up to but
he had finished saying them reciting
them
by and he had started
on at least that first part of the Tanya
he started then that was at the birthday
of theed okay so the English date it
will be uh
17949 no 17 1789
89 um what tell me if I want to
summarize if I'm if I understand you
correctly in other words the Al said
what we would call today a
mimer the was a mimer yes MIM MIM they
weren't the first three chapters it said
that that he said them on that
first but apparently it would seem that
the rest were a peric per per chabas
mostly shab so here's a question that
I've always had goe the AL was appointed
by yes as the the leader in R I believe
white Russia whatever belusa today in
1777 when Mel left together with Raam
kis they left they made Al
Ro what did he teach from
1777 to
1789 so we only have uh we we don't have
any manuscripts that says okay this is
what he wrote we have certain letters
from him but other than the letters uh
that he wrote that are printed in Kesh
uh right we have certain MIM that were
verbally that the said he heard from
this from this all the way back to the
original word from we have a few such
but most of it we don't have so my
question is oh but do you believe he
said my M oh of course there's no no
question about it no question about it
he taught he taught he uh the question
is did anybody write it down not
necessarily so why because in those days
most did not used to they used would
commit it to memory they lived with it
the famous story with the vul who was
vuler who was a r in vulpa andin in
vulpa and he was one of the of the Magid
and uh later years uh and he's coming
one time to I guess Lea
and is looking through his stuff he says
what are you looking
for later
became he was R first in V he took over
from his father-in-law yes and he was R
there for 20 plus years and then in
around 7 about 1820 he became R so go
ahead for the story so this he's he's
going through his stuff and he's uh
looking for said what are you looking
for he says maybe you have writings that
you wrote down the teachings of the
magit so he said no when we learned by
the Magid it became one with us it was
one entity with our eths we we didn't
write it down on paper you have all
theas you write down on
paper so so okay so he starts with the
tan and and then he wrote a Tanya did he
have any what we called
later who started to write down his my
Mor okay so the the first record the
first B that the B that contains the
earliest means a book yeah book a
manuscript that has the earliest
contains the earliest dates is the B is
now in the the in the Reb's Library it's
number 750 this is a b that belonged to
the famous of the by the
name he was
Liv he's described at Great length in
the
uh so this is a that belonged to him yes
and and I don't know if he wrote it down
when he was Aid or somebody else that
that but he had those pages that that's
that's pages that belong to him and what
is he recording which year and this is
the year which would be since it's the
winter of9 1792 1992 so okay now you
mentioned me earlier today and this
that's why I thought of interv what's
interesting is over here he ref this
version of those he references the T say
Canal as mentioned above in tanot tan
and it was written in seems to be
written continuation to the which is
written in that book oh that's very
interesting so you men that the Al has
said my every two weeks can you tell me
a little bit about that we know that
there was a difference between the way
the AL recited theim before his arrest
in peterborg and afterwards before his
arrest
179 initially he used to
say strictly on shabas
shabas he had the those were those were
the times but not every shabas not every
shabas okay shabas those were the shabas
that he would say those were one we say
as I mentioned from T which would be uh
189 1794 1794 we have four manuscripts
some from but
in starting from
shabas we have from every up
we have constantly and and we find every
two weeks no no no not every two weeks
every every shab once a month once a
month and this the writes that the
brother of the
AL who later became yanovich and
apparently at this time he still lived
in Le together with Al he was actually
paid by the Al Al would pay him a
certain sum for him to write down the to
be a copyist to to be a not just a
copyist he he wrote it down he was theer
he was the one who would uh I guess
repeat it and and write it down he his
was the official copy of of of the M
okay so why are you mentioning this I'm
mentioning this because what happens
what happens exactly at that time it
seems one of few versions of Tas of and
one of them seems to be from from that
month
yeah so so apparently when when that Tak
was made exactly when they should travel
when they should also something else
that started then we all know there's
something called mid mid is where they
fund raise for for the B for the Reb's
household for their basic needs so for
basic needs financial support the mid
the mid as we know it which is for for
for basic needs of the of the rim and
even for buying books that we know uh
the first letter that we have from
either the or his colleague The Who lat
become is from T from
1805 however a earlier version of
fundraising that wanted every to
contribute to in addition to the
contribution that they used to make for
the people in Israel the families in
Israel was
for means people came to as they grew
and and uh the locals in Lea couldn't
they well they would support them for
shabas but for during the week they also
needed to somewhere to eat so the AL
made a special collection in which he
want each to contribute and we know who
the fundraiser was it was the
famous huh so what is g for means a
kitchen and G probably means a it's it's
a it's a mini kitchen okay yeah and and
the famous letter printed at the end of
yes was sent with
him but it's not the first there's an
earlier letter I
believe and he's mentioned he's
mentioned over there that's how we know
that it was sent with him in the
manuscripts it's written oh really his
name is WR in the manuscript not the the
letter itself the AL usually used to
refer to the guy who's carrying the
letter as the guy who's going to
transmit this this writing and but we
have earlier letter that's uh from from
him from from that time so by that time
there was was already established we
also have so someone so your point your
point you're making is that the concept
of
mid um the earlier version of M later it
was probably for specifically for the
household of of of the well we know the
AL was what was the earlier version for
what the collection collection that
every gave for what purpose the purpose
was to support all the people traveling
to people travel to somewhere to stay I
understand later it became for the
wealthy people who paid their own
individual thing but for those who
didn't I have a question is is would you
say that the alter is the one who
created the idea of mid or do you know
there's historical evidence that it
already existed before in other cidic
circles it could have existed before and
we
haveen we have a letter where he tells
people what to give and how much to give
before before but the AL specifically
says we know we have the when Al was
arrested and they asked him and Al
specifically said that he doesn't accept
funds from the so the funds that were
raised from the at least those 10 years
that we're talking about the was not
raised for the benefit of the Al was the
people coming
to and and eventually in and in the
times of the we knew that the was
wealthy or or or the would give him
money for for this purpose yes and he
would distribute a certain amount of
money for for the AR that would come so
they should have right right okay so but
go back now to every two weeks they
might so what happened was after pburg
now the the last two years I would say
well from T it's not so clear
uh exactly what what years would but
according to my research it seems that
definitely after the first uh maybe even
the first the right the year right
preceding the uh the arrest of the alter
1797 1798 in 1798 theba started saying
at least for his sons he would say
almost every other shabas and and and
but but but definitely by the time that
the AL was released from the prison the
second time in other words that was 18
that was
18011 and uh in 1801 was 1800 in 1800 he
was released he was arrested he was
arrested on D
KV Second Time Around the Mish says
brings a document that ever refers to a
document published M that he was
arrested on K yes which is in the winter
of 1800 and and the fall of 1800 and he
was uh 3 weeks later Kim he was released
to house arrest from whatever whatever
place they were holding him right
however he was not allowed to leave
peterborg so there were whole bunch of
that came to PG including the and even
recorded some and it seems that there is
a certain that said on an
engagement that they actually made in in
in
inber in Peterburg not in faisa he was
released in house arrest house arrest
but when did these two week the
so what happens was you'll see already
towards the end of that summer in summer
of 1801 he's already saying every other
shabas or actually every shabas he's
saying a but these are individual he's
not he's not saying
it he's saying it
individually we know the famous there's
a
famous which was said
in and and and a lot of these we have in
the writings we have his explanations on
it right so but this is we have also the
from way wrote it okay so what's the
point of this the point I'm making is
that once he came the there's a that
begins from
the B which is from the win fall of 1801
up to and over there you can see that
every two weeks there's a m on average
of every two weeks there's a which he
said which he said for the public right
now he told me something there about his
son would write down okay now what
happen is so we have from the MIT the
earliest that we have that we know for
certain from the is that's uh called
1161 in the rebas library and and that
seems uh to be M
from Little basically from 1897 onwards
till 1899 17 179 excuse me from
1797 to 1799 yeah and uh and and then we
have another B called 103 which is kind
of a continuation it's from
1799 to
1801 then we have from the fall from
when the Al from the first shabas that
usually did not
say there was certain exceptions but on
a on a usual case he did not say on on
that's interesting yeah because was like
a Time him and the aish there was was
not time for the public it was
very it was very isolated cases in which
he did say
on and but sh he would say so we have
from first was he wrote he
wrote
before and almost
so in any case we have
that so we have a lot of from the first
that we have from starts in middle of
which would be 1802 right and you told
me today that the last toward the end
towards the end of 1802 I guess
in from then onwards ra would write on
every TOA that was said Bim he would
write in the caption toim in apprentic
right we're here with Rabbi y Keller
we've had a wonderful discussion about
Al's and his conduct with uh saying
cidus we will um continue in our second
segment um very soon thank you