#633: Modim Derabanan (Part 3)

Citizens by the Saka family and by we're on the Bose explained it's called Dan because it is a composite of all of the rabbi suggestions in the of what should be said while the is reciting the amida. We pointed out the Abu Draam notes this is the only that even during while the is repeating we offer our own and as we said because you can't outsource you can't outsource gratitude each of us have to say it on our own also has like this vanos gives a different reason he says the other when we answer it's enough to show that we agree that we uh are subscribing to the same idea when it comes to modem if we were silent then it would look like we're unappreciative. If we're not actively involved, then it implies disagreement. So the best way to endorse what the kazin is saying when he's offering modm gratitude to hashem is for us to offer that gratitude as well simultaneously in our own formulation in modm durabon which begs the question the last topic before we dive into the words of modm durabon itself which is what is the proper way for the kazin to recitem should the kaz when he's up to modm just go forward straight direct should the kazin pause and let the seabour say their modm durabon before continuing The say quietly, silently to himself is of the opinion that there's no need. It's not necessary to wait. When the gets up tom he recites and the seabboard do their and the seabboard do their own thing. He writes which say it silently, quietly to themselves. They mumble, they swallow because the saying is critical. The Mishna rejects such a practice and says it is mistaken. True, the doesn't need to wait. But the also should not say it silently or quietly. The should say it out loud. So isn't it a conflict? Each of the of the we know that has to have a minion who are answering who have to listen who have to hear. So if the are saying their own modem they're not listening to the modem of the how does that work in what way does that uh is that acceptable. So if you look at modm and dabon you might note that the first nine words are exactly the same. So the way modm begins when we're saying modan we're saying the exact same thing for the first nine words. And the original formulation of modem in the debate among the amim what should be said what was the modem what we called the raan it was really rather short it was succinct so the truth is if you began with the kaz and you said the first opening nine words and there was very little more that was added so you weren't really missing you weren't really missing that much and that's why some say it's not a problem it's not a problem or even if in your own silent amida what if you said the wrong modem let's say the kazin was thrown off. He looked on the left side of the line instead of the right side of the line. So the himself said instead of modm or let's say in one's own silent in their own they were thrown off and they said instead of do they have to repeat the did they make a mistake? So the all say that you are y because the theme is the same the theme is similar and overlapping. Therefore, even if you said the wrong one, of course, we don't encourage a person should pay attention to what they're saying and say the right one, but they're not doing anything uh they would not have to repeat if they made a mistake and said and said the wrong one. Some suggest writes the kazin should say the first word slowly slowly and so he doesn't wait doesn't say it quietly. He says it out loud but say it and pace it in such a way that the sour can say and not miss much. There is an opinion that the should say and wait and wait for the to say and then only resume and finish once the has concluded that's the practice of that's what he endorses as do others but it is a minority opinion the more accepted opinion the rules as we read is that you can simply continue and the brings two reasons number one was originally instituted for whom for those who didn't know how to d on their own. So the people who don't know how to d on their own are still relying and listening to the kazin's modem. So true those who do know are saying but there are those who don't know on their own and therefore they're listening to the and therefore it's not a conflict there is reason for which is saying the other the other suggestion mish brings is that there 10 people who hear how are there 10 people who hear if they're answering at the same time so suggests even though generally we have a principle that and even in the world of migillah even if it's the same thing but here he suggests that one can speak and listen at the same time if there's an overlapping theme if essentially you're saying the same thing if you're saying the same thing modm is the same thing modm and modm is very overlapping theme and so a person can listen and endorse what the kazan is saying and essentially echo the sentiment and endorse the second sentiment and offer their own elongated prolonged a through their own modem daban at the same at the same time. So if that and therefore it wouldn't be considered to be a conflict that the khazin is saying it out loud while the tibor is answering but the kazin saying to himself that would be incorrect. It should be said out loud whether one pauses or not depends on their minist but it should be said out loud so that can hear it even whilst the same time they are reciting it for themselves. And with that, we'll begin tomorrow night the words of Modm.