#158: Behind the Bima - Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb

from Boa Ron Florida this is behind the beima on this week's episode Rabbi eim Goldberg is joined by Rabbi David gotop Rabbi of kilat TAA rebi at shivat harion and managing director of salash Rabbi gotop shares his unlikely Aliyah story explains the inspiring mission of Tash and describes the important differences between Jewish communities in Israel and abroad plus a live update from AKA on the community of kirat Mana all this and more behind the beima okay we are here with my dear friend Rabbi David GLI it's a great privilege and honor to be with you in Israel uh we've known each other for many many years and um among the many reasons I admire you and look up to you including your SAR and your Torah that I've always learned but is the leap that you took to bring your family and to live here and to give up an incredibly Su successful RAB inet shuna Baltimore one of the big congregations in America position of a lot of prestige and prominence and to put your lot in your destiny in is is and when you did and at the time uh I don't know if you knew or anticipated or predicted being here through a war in which you have sons son-in-law in which as a leader of a community in a Sho a leader of talash all this we're going to unpack and talk about right now but it's absolutely extraordinary what you're doing and and on behalf of all of us thank you thank you for all of your leadership and all that you do and we look on with admiration a little bit of Envy uh hopefully enough that one day we'll we'll follow one day soon but thank you for giving us some time and letting us go behind the beam here at the Dau studios in modian thank you so much it really is a pleasure to be here and I appreciate you referring to me as a longtime friend and not an old friend exactly big difference between that too big difference so there's a lot so much to talk about um catch up on but let's let's not begin right now let's take that step back and let's talk about you have this career you're thriving you're a leader in the rabet you're in America what was the trigger what was what pushed you your family to make that leap to come on Aliah to leave the rabet and to come to Israel so it's a obviously a great question a fair question but it's more complicated than perhaps one would think because unlike a lot of people both in the rabit and outside of the rabet who have long desired dreamed of planned on going on Aliah I never really did maybe when I first got back from Yeshiva but certainly as my you this was one of those while we're dating we're going to in Israel you did not come up at all right and honestly I really felt that I was going to be like you a Pulpit Rabbi in America I thought that I had you know whatever the right skill set is for that that was going to be my mission that's how I was going to serve the Jewish people and I was fine with that and there was never any moment where there was an epiphany and I started planning on doing something else and yet at the same time clearly over time almost subconsciously things had started to um I guess bubble up but even then it was never really a decision to go as much as I was at the end of a contract and I asked for a sabatical and I told the congregation at the time of the board who was kind enough to Grant the sabatical that in all sincerity I needed a break and I was open to considering Aliyah I was transparent with them above board but at the same time I said honestly it's very unlikely right because what am I going to do in Israel right you know Pulpit Rabbi is not a career and it's certainly not a parnasa in the land of Israel so I was open to it when we went on sabatical but I really wasn't planning on it so how did we get to there and how do we finally make the decision so I think in hindsight and I did not know any of this really as I was going through it is funny as that might sound but in hindsight it really was a number of factors uh one factor which I think a lot of people who make Aliah are somewhere in this story is that I had a relative my in my case it was my wife's sister my sister-in-law Serena and Daniel hardstein as sisters they're very close as family were very close and they had just made Alia from Bergenfield right that was traumatic for our family the family was always ideologically zionis religious Zionist but we never had anyone who made Aliah we were armchair zionists in our family theoretical Zionist and then all of a sudden my sister-in-law and brother-in-law moved and after the initial trauma at least for me and my wife it was a sense of all of a sudden it's possibility a possibility and we missed them and in fact our sabatical was completely anchored by them we went to raat bees and to raat Shilo when our kids went to school all those things were based on my sister sisterin-law and my brother-in-law so having family there was a huge Factor I'll tell you another thing which was interesting I know you've done this especially with your sh during the war I'm just not familiar if you were doing this before the war but sh missions to Israel so when I was in Baltimore and shamun as you mentioned Rabbi mosha Hower was the rabbi of b Jacob Shar Zion and the two of us he is a a friend but a more senior colleague so he was definitely the leader but I was happy to be his second uh the two of us LED our shoes on joint missions for a number of years I always came back on an incredible high right again there was never any conscious decision oh this is an inspiring trip I should make Aliah right maybe I should have felt that way but honestly I didn't but I really was always on a high I would always speak about the trip the shabas after I came back and I mention this because this is will be especially interesting to maybe any of the rabbis in the listening audience when we finally decided to make Aliyah a member of my SHO congregant who honestly I was never sure was really listening to my druses right any week let alone the weeks I was coming back from Israel but it turns out I was wrong he was not only listening he was one of the more perceptive people in the whole Sho right because he's told me that he was not at all surprised by our announcement and I said to them really because I'm shocked right my family shocked how could be you're not shocked saw the energy that you brought back from those trips he said to me every speech you would give the shabas after those trips you were different right he said I saw it then wow is that humbling so here's the question when when you got up and you announced you're making Aliah or the sabatical transitions into Aliyah how many families from shuna joined you because there's a misconception out there every time I to is if I had a dollar for every time I stopped in Israel that says RAB if you'll do it yeah ranging from You're the Reason mashiach's not here to it' be so nice if you came but by the way if you got up and announced that the entire sh would come let alone the whole American Jewelry so how many my friends who have done that and it's not an excuse I'm not asking that as coverage but just sort of clear the record how many heard that and said oh the rabbi's going we're in with him zero zero now since then there have been a small handful right and there are people who for example move to the current neighborhood where I am the rabbi right because they knew me like the idea of me being the rabbi I think that's fair to say but I in totally there wasn't some ground swell and mass movement and migration and when the rabbi announced it the whole said let's turn the lights off let's shut down we're in and honestly while I'm not here the interview is about you interviewing me not me interviewing you obviously I think it's something that people like you should think about and obviously people like you and other abund in America have important leadership positions and how do you wrestle with that which I know you do that's one important question and it could be as you yourself implied it could be that maybe that's the right thing for you to do right but I think that the things that people are saying to you are not fair right are not fair no there's no question about about it meaning I do struggle with it and wrestle with it almost every single day and whatever yeah we spoke at length about it and and I appreciate that um but but it wouldn't be if a rabbi is going to make Aliah it shouldn't be because there's an expectation or assumption that the community is going to become I don't know is it possible which I don't think was true in the case in Baltimore is it possible that there X number of people in your Sho or anyway wrestling with Aliyah right and if all of a sudden Robert Goldberg announced he's coming they would come I think that is that is at least realistic I have no idea what that number is but if there are people in but people and just to flush out what you're getting at because I totally agree with you people who are For Better or For Worse right or wrong but they're settled in their life they're entangled with all sorts of commitments and responsibilities professional and familial in bokeh right and all of a sudden Rob globber is making Aliah they can't all of a sudden right that's unlikely so when let me ask you this when and when you decided to make aliia which is incredible and as I say we we still look with admiration did you understand and appreciate then the trajectory your kids would be on that you fast forward to today in the last eight months and what it meant that decision unlike the safety security which who knows how safe and secure Baltimore is these days but certainly more than Gaza and the northern border where your children have have served but did you appreciate then the trajectory that they were going to be on meant ultimately serving in an army and maybe even one day having to show up for a war so I think not only did I not know or fully appreciate is a better word the directory that they were on to answer the question you didn't ask but related which is if I look back on what's happened in my own life leave aside my children my own life my own career in the last 15 years that I anticipate that trajectory and the answer to both of those questions is we had no idea and I have often observed that I think it's absolutely deliberate that AES hides things from us right because if I had known how it would be the ups and downs the zigzag in my own career and then of course the challenges of raising children even before you get to the war just we're immigrants let alone Army service before a war let alone Army service during a war if I had known all of those things I probably would still be in Baltimore right right and I think AAR who hides certain things from us right that so I want to get to where your kids are today and and your son Yakov have developed really wonderful relationship with and he's I'm sure all your children but really special really amazing but you said your career zigzagged and and you've been a Ramen a rebi and you shivas and have t me them in a lot of success in that today your career is as a r of a upand cominging your shules being built as we speak super exciting incredible new neighborhood and rap ches um and and salash which I really want to hear more about because I don't know that the American Jewish Community knows enough about it they should not in a war they should especially during the war and what's going on so tell us about both tell us about the community and how that's coming its growth what distinguishes it uh how big is it what are the what are the vision of the future plans for it and then we'll come to salash okay so let's take one at a time so I unlike a lot of people who make Aliah especially from the rabet I had not I My Hope was not to abandon the Rabin it I had a long conversation with lonstein before making the decision subsequent I followed up with both rabie willig and rabie Rosen swag my two primary reim and there was a lot of alignment that despite whatever I had accomplished in America was totally legitimate to be making Aliah right if I would be able to continue to serve the Jewish people in a similar capacity in Israel now R himself in that fateful conversation specifically asked me how big my Sho was in Baltimore right when I told him you know he smiled and says obviously we don't have shes of that size right in Israel but he also said 10 init are equal to one in ER Israel right so whatever he meant by that I'll leave to people to interpret but I always had this dream of being a sh Rabbi I did not make Ali just thinking oh I'll go into the Yeshiva Seminary World I'll become a tour guide I'll become a computer programmer I'm not being bazle in any of those options for different people but it was not my option but the truth is despite whatever my resume may have been and I appreciate you kindly describing it before it was worthless in Israel and I went through a number of years looking for again I already had small part-time jobs but I was really looking for that Pulpit to fulfill what not not only what I thought was my uh Destiny but also what Myra bam had told me was the legitimate reason that I I appreciate being honest it's not it's not easy and I really appreciate that because that transparency that honesty is refreshing most people aren't and all of us are living in a world where we we present these carefully cated lives where everything is honky Dory and perfect and seamless and smooth so that honesty is really I had a lot of years of strugg one of the things I had asked is you know where does idealism end where's the line between idealism and irresponsibility I was 35 four children in a mortgage and when I made Aliah not only did I have a job in Israel I didn't have a job prospect I don't say that to impress anybody one could easily argue that was irresponsible right but that's the facts but in hindsight arrogantly naively I just assumed if I was going to be was going to split theam and actually kind of predicted he said to me someone with your resume who wouldn't want to H hire you right the answer was apparently a lot of people and what was and when you were going through that did you second guess the decision were you doubting yourself were you doubting the system were you resentful about the the system that you had been part of that didn't position you to succeed here what was that experience I wasn't resentful but it was painful it was obviously painful it would be painful for anybody to struggle at any stage of life I think that's obvious but I think you know given the level of success and what I had had achieved he was it was you know it was a zag that I wasn't not looking for wasn't expecting and I could have done without to be frank you know I can look back and see all the things I learned from it and it hardened me and made me better but at the time I was not excited about any of it and I really had to look for a while but I I mentioned this only because what I ended up doing was not plan a or Plan B but when I couldn't find a job in the normal way I kind of realized Allah Field of Dreams I guess I have to build it if I build my own Community then I guess I'll be the rabbi no one else will hire me so I guess I should just do that so to make a very long story short I think if if I remember correctly I think it was seven years and it's too painful to remember how long it took with all the delays but the bottom line was I was able to find a partner the two of us ended up connecting and collaborating with a kaban an Israeli Builder and there was a new expansion a new neighborhood being built in rap ches and we were able to partner with that kablan so that good percentage of the houses that were be built in the new neighborhood we would be able to be the ones marketing and the idea was to build a neighborhood around a central sh with me as the rabbi so that took a number of years as I said we won't even get into the details all the ups and downs of Israeli real estate yovin but the bottom line was nine months I guess or so the L the September or the August before Corona that's when we finally moved in and that's where I first had by that Insight I mentioned before that I think hides things because if without you know the back the quick back of the napkin math I think that was at least 10 years maybe 11 years 10 years after I made Aliah if you would have told me in Baltimore in 2009 which is the summer that we came that it won't be until then that I'll actually have a Sho what I be the Raby of right and still be in Baltimore I assume so yeah so it took that long but the bottom line was and that planning I was ready Rabbi at gush I already had gotten that part of my life more stable but I still wanted to be a rabbi and that started in that community and the the vision really is um a smaller obviously much smaller version of what you aspire to be what I aspire to be in Baltimore and you know many of our friends who thank God are doing wonderful things in America are doing that is to say to be a communal Hub to be a place not just where you grab a minion not just which is convenient of course we are that too but to be a Sho that provides shm social programming youth programming again things which are ABCs in America some shs do bigger bigger some people do bet bigger some people do better but that's is inart we're familiar with the model it's not a given in Israel and I unapologetically feel certain things are better in karts not everything is better here and that's a better model in my opinion I think it's better for Israelis but they'll have to figure that out on their own it's definitely better for ol and others have agreed with you community is growing how many families you have so I mean as you know in America and anywhere the growth of a community is dependent on all sorts of factors right as you know rabbis get way too much credit and way too much blame based on membership and there could be all sorts of factors but the bottom line is so we have advantages and disadvantages in terms of where we are but the bottom line is yes thank God we are about 90 families I think at the moment in terms of members of the Sho you know we have a membership you know du's again very low compared to America but we have a real sh in that sense and about 90 families and when we moved in so the house next door to mine we're renting that's where the Sho has been you know vibrant since day one but at the same time not a three minute walk from where we are is the construction site where after all sorts of delays again it's Israel uh and then of course the war has slowed things down a little bit but yes we are in the middle of a incredibly exciting construction process which not that far away B har will lead to the completion of the actual proper are still houses available somebody's listening or watching and they're excited by your energy and they say I'm looking to have a soft Landing a place to come in Israel that a community center like I'm used to in America are there still options still opportunities there are opportunities to move into OPM Mission even in my project but not in the sense of a house that was built that was never sold we sold out if the houses have not that many but there already been a few that have flipped um and but the truth is that there are always houses that are for sale um and you know in just like in Yim which you know many of your listeners might be familiar with you know every few blocks is another neighborhood you know where's katone end and you know ravia begin and the German Colony versus this col you know every few blocks in Israel we call a neighborhood right it's somewhat similar CH so the official project that we built was four blocks but people who live you know on the fifth block and on even on the eth block are a two-minute walk and a three minute walk from our Shool and we have members we have members who bought in our project and we have members who didn't buy in our project people who bought who live in our Pro who bought in our project don't DAV in the Sho it's ra CH there are other shoes We're Not the Only Sho in the area and you don't have to have bought in my project so even if you would want to be a member of our Sho doesn't mean you have to you don't have to be right there plus I know there are people who participate during the week who may not be walking distance on sh but love your love energy the you don't have to be so you know similarly when we're talking even personally about you and and maybe what you didn't necessarily anticipate in the trajectory of your kids life you start a community you want to reawaken that that Rabbi inside you community Pulpit Rabbi inside you uh you knew that you'd have a community where there would be young people children of community members serving the Army you didn't know necessarily they'd be serving in the front lines risking their lives people losing their lives what has it been like as a RV in Israel putting the community on your back on your shoulders not not on your own obviously but bearing a huge responsibility to Shepherd a kahila through a war and what that means with The Angst and the fear and the anxiety that you know well because you're living it with them as a parent of soldiers but also the rabbi needing to comfort needing to build strength needing to teach resilience needing to to navigate anxiety needing to navigate political differences about what should happen and when and how now what's what's it like leading a community in Israel through this time so it certainly has been stressful our community is relatively young and predominantly Anglo so because of that we actually don't have huge numbers of people in the Army as you mentioned I have three children two sons and a son-in-law who called upon on Simas Tor and there are other there are other children in the SCH and there are a few of the adults in the sh who themselves are in either a small handful who may have grown up in Israel I have a neighbor he was a classmate a contemporary of ours in Wu who actually a surgeon but since he made alah he's been part of the milim even though he's either 50 or 51 now he is still in s Tor most not all he's had sometimes he's been off but he's predominantly been serving on the front lines as a combat surgeon and doctor so we have a few of the men men in our Sho who are in miluim and a few of the kids in a incredibly small Coincidence of the 300,000 reserv that were called up one of the men of my sh was under the command of my son-in-law they were literally in the same like group of 30 soldiers where my son was the What's called the me and a member of my Sho was uh was part of that odds are staggering but uh so on the one hand it wasn't like other neighborhoods or like half the Shool or you know there's 30 kids in the Shool who are in the Army and 20 of the men or whatever the numbers could be even exponentially bigger than that we're not that right but at the same time a we did have some and B I would say having you know anglo's um one of the additional challenges exactly as you're alluding to is that we don't have the history and the the emotional you know experience to have dealt with this you know Israelis grow up with having stories oh my father or my grandfather he was in the Yum Kipper War he was in the Lebanon war he did I'm not saying it's easy for them either nothing war is not easy on anybody but they grow up with this no one's expecting this has been the longest war in Israeli history Israel's history eight months in running whatever it's been but so no one's experienced this but people had a Consciousness was part of their family history and Eng don't have that to draw from we don't have anything they're writing their own script we had color war in Camp that's the closest thing you and I come to war growing up in America right so that has been obviously a challenge um so to answer your question about what as a Sho in terms of navigating it was frankly much easier than Corona was Corona with all the stresses not to revisit all that we'll get all all get PTSD but you know that had issues not only with everyone scared about the disease but all the exactly all the tensions come back will we survive yes MK no Mass how strict not strict all the things that every sh dealt with so we also dealt with on our own way right so that was that was really complicated right here we don't have that what we we had and especially in the first months of the war I mean obviously there was a trauma the whole country experienced a trauma but but what we really and I felt this was a tremendous coming together I mean everyone was really United in a way that I could never possibly I can't even put into words first of all behind the kids and the members of the Sho who were already called up obviously tremendous care and concern doing for them packaging delivering but also again not unique to our SCH all of the are was like this but we were no less cooking and delivering packages for soldiers whether we had members of our SCH there or not so it was really a intense scary but I think an incredibly uplifting experience I would say overall it wasn't like there was no division divisiveness God forbid we were so unified um scared yes the doing was intense um so I think as a as a Shool in that regard that's how I would describe it and in terms of my own personal leadership I don't remember how long it was but you know certainly for the first two months three months I can't remember exactly how long it was like every speech was about the war not only not only did we had a few special tum Gatherings or you and I did something together one of the first weeks of the war in be chesh so not only were those speeches obviously about the war but every shabas Russa for I can't remember how long at some point I has that moved on now yeah really yeah and you get up on a shabas and give a drush on another topic and I haven't spoken about the war on a shabas in a while I can say never but it's not the go-to anymore you don't need to I mean in boo and I do every single shaba since then because we want to make sure it's part of people's mindfulness Consciousness you can't get distracted just because we're not living it when you're here you almost don't need to because you're living it yeah again I I I I don't think every sh Rabbi is the same in Israel obviously but I think there's a basic truth to what you're describing and it parallels the fact that in some shs I don't know what you're doing but I I still go back to America a few times I've been to America three times I think since the war started four three or four times and there are certainly shs in America who are still doing with extra more extra things MH even than schs and Israel are doing and I know that I was speaking to one of my colleagues early on who wasn't who wasn't doing something that I was doing and I asked him RAB Rosner and he made exactly the point you said I don't need to do that in my sh we're living it so again we were doing AO we stopped at some point I think RAR stopped that right there are still schs in America doing that we do one par to Hill him after every doing I don't do two or three I don't see I've been in sches in America where every Monday and Thursday or even sometimes every day after say so we don't do that it wasn't a conscious decision to be different but I think you're probably right in your assessment of why driving the Billboards the signs on the sides of buildings the sign of the bus the news every time you turn it on and and the daily living in life and you people who are looking around their homes and they people who aren't there because they're serving reserv as father sons and it may not be as as necessary so you're balancing that you got the Keila on your back and you also have your family so let's talk about if it's okay for a moment your your your children your son-in-law where they've been where they've been serving what that's been like how do you how do you sleep at night how do you bear the responsibility of all that you're doing and and navigate that um I know Yakov we we connected through and maybe you won't even describe your relationship to the the G mishak um and and that connection and and he really was really helpful to me introducing me to the G Riva and that relationship with sha alter bringing ra sha to bokeh to our community something I cherish and and look back at and every visit to Israel I've been on I've had the opportunity to see him and I Yakov deserves a lot of credit for that in in making that relationship and sadly he couldn't be in bokeh for that event where aru was packed and was incredible and people are still talking about it because he was serving at that time he he put it together he put it in motion and then he he couldn't be there um so you know tell us what yako what the others have have been up to what what's it like being a parent of children serving just my my daughter is my oldest she's married thank God and has a we have a grandson who's one year old so her husband aali my very beloved son-in-law so he had served in the Army when he was younger in fact their entire courtship was while he was serving they got married just a few weeks after he finished the Army um so he was called back toim you know emergency on Sim Tor my sakov who you alluded to had just finished hezer so he's in his first year post hezer he was still learning actually in the gr K in yush your old stomping grounds um and he got called from the Dance Floor you know from hakos to go miluim and then my second son Yosef who is still also in active duty in service he is in hezer he's in Shivam he had started the army pesak time last year so he is still you know in his service so of those three ysf has been serving uninterruptedly because he's not in he's not a reserve he's still uh through uh through sukus he'll still be full-time in the Army he happens to have had allergies so he wasn't in a combat unit but he serves in a kind of um strategic SL modiin um type job very important job as part of P safon the northern command which is outside ofat and he's had an incredibly intense service from the beginning his base is so important that there's a mirror it's out of a movie there's a mirror of that whole base a number of stories below ground because God forbid you know they can't have any Interruption of the command and control they're in charge of the whole North so he's been underground for most of the last uh eight nine months so blean har we're not worried about his physical safet but he has had an incredibly stressful service much more than he would have anticipated given what's going on in the north and in additionally sadly he's a Tom in of if I'm not mistaken I believe it's nine talim who have been killed he was friendly with pretty much all of them and one of them in particular was his Kusa one of his best friends so it's the challenges of trying to be a parent for children who have lost friends and all of my children and he can't grieve he doesn't have time he doesn't have the luxury of wallowing in sadness and in grief because the intelligence and his service can't wait so that's all being shelves right now and we don't begin to appreciate or understand we'll get to your Tash work in a moment but we to begin to understand what this country those who are serving and their family in the concentric circles around them right how much is right now being stifled and not being experienced they can't lean in can't grieve and what that means down the road in terms of the trauma the country is going to recover from so he's had to go way too fast losing nine he nine funerals including a best friend yes yes so that's ysf who has had uninterrupted service more or less and in his unique situation Yakov my son and naali my son-in-law so they are combat soldiers and they are in reserves so they were both called up the weight just worked out randomly Yakov and his unit was sent to the Lebanon border on Soro and naali my son-in-law was sent to the South the way it worked out was that aali two two and a half months into the war was given his first break his first shik and he in theory is supposed to be a student in engineering at Mahon Lev learning in Ron's Kell studying engineering um but you know he was obviously missed the first few months of the school year until they eventually started then he's been back and now he then he got called a second time he's already finished two um tours as a reservist since the war has begun barem he is physically fine again he he also lost close friends on Sor and since then but he is you know as far as I know uh served with great distinction as an officer as I mentioned one of my own sold one of my own congregants was in his unit um and he has had two different tours and at the moment he's back home with my daughter my grandson and trying to figure out how to make up for all the lost time and keep up his college uh and his Graves which is not an easy thing that's not t Yakov as I mentioned was sent to the Lebanon border and he as it happens instead of two two and a half months he had over five months basically where he was full-time in um so first of the length of that was very very intense and very difficult for him and um I think now most of us know how dangerous the north is I think in the beginning for obvious reasons all of our attention was focused on the south and Gaza and a lot of us didn't realize how bad the north was even from the beginning right and Yakov way after he uh I'm not sure I honestly I don't remember time has had a funny way of playing games with our our heads the last year but I can't remember if this was towards the end of his service or he was already out but at some point he had was home for chabas and he was sitting on a chabas afternoon with me and my wife and he mentioned that I think the number he said was six times he thought this was it that was on the Lebanon border again stuff that people didn't even know about at the time was going on in Lebanon in terms of the Rockets over their heads and things like that and the first one he told me about told us about was on sasur he said when we were running to the north he ran home got his gear and then ran out the north we were under the assumption that we were within days of invading Lebanon I think a lot of that has somewhat come out I get hard to know depending on what who which news you follow in which podcast you listen to but I think it is somewhat public now that there was a big discussion and even a debate within the senior Israeli whether they were going to go in or not I think that was a huge argument I don't know who was right and who was wrong but some of the soldiers including jakov's officers thought they were going in and apparently that wasn't a crazy rumor because it almost happened yeah and he said like we all knew we had to do it we didn't hesitate but we all thought we were going to die he's 24 right and he had other times where like you know drones hitting his position or Rockets over their heads you know no IR there too there's no Iron Dome where he was he wasn't on a base forget he was he was just like in a tent and for a while he was like camouflaged like a bush like on the Lebanon border I was just thinking yesterday goly about the difference between young people in America right now and in Israel where the young people in Israel are the hope and they are the future and they are so strong and resilient and they are the source of our strength and our faith and our optimism and there's so much to believe in and young people I'm not talking about in the Jewish Community but I'm just talking about the culture of Millennials and younger and I don't want to get in trouble for saying this but of what they're such spoiled and entitled and confused and almost hopeless and that contrast of what the war has brought out of the young people that I know so many are leaning on in this country looking at those young people who aren't young they may be young chronologically they're young in their years or age but they're not young in their life experience and what that means for the future many ways maybe positive growing up and maturing but in other ways the scars and the fears and that takes that takes away from life when you think you're not going to live and you don't know what's going to happen and you're bracing yourself to go in and will it and won't it and what's going to happen and but yako of all of them they're they're just amazing so he finished that first tour I think it was around perm time about five months into the war but then he recently got called back and now he is down south um I'm not sure I'm supposed to talk too much about what he's doing not because it's so top secret but because I don't think he wants his mother you know so um but he's not in the North anymore now he's doing things you know on both sides of the Border let's just say uh in the south of Israel but hopefully that's only 40 days and then hopefully he'll be back but um so those are the three of them and uh each one of them have lost friends as I mentioned bar hasem and Har none of them have scars that you can see but they all have scars you can't see right they're real and then may in some ways be harder to treat yeah because you can't see them and the world doesn't see them and it's important that that we the whole Jewish Community around the world not disappear because the treatment for those scars don't go in a duffel bag you can't put them in Al can't buy it at Costco but they're also going to need a lot of support and we're not going anywhere for that I appreciate that quick tangent please your connection with the alter family how did Yakov get connected to G um did you have a relationship with the panakam rabbitson just passed away and I know sha and his brothers were just sitting shiva Yakov maybe the most of your family to lean into that but you also what's what's that connection so the answer is that when I was Yesa 189 years old and even before that I grew up on my mother's side knowing that I'm an Ur anle of the I'm a great grandchild I'm a descendant of the it's not has not always been exactly clear how that was that's one of the benefits of their definition of Yus is a little bit broader right but um I know it's real because when I was in 18 and 19 and I would I went to G I would go for a shabas I went to visit the pan my first year in yiva was the last year of the Le Sim's life you couldn't talk to him he was already incapacitated but you could see him and I spent a shabas and gar as a first year student and I went to see him um and then my second year was when R when P took over died so I was there and one of the last things I did in Israel was go to the P to talk to him about I wanted to stay a third year my parents want me to go to Wu and he even said to me when I told him about Wu goes he says in Hebrew oh that's the Shiva of raash I didn't even know he knew about Wu or Sal but he knew and he encouraged me to go back and then afterwards to make alah but we already discussed the fact that I didn't do that but so I had a family connection my mother grew up with the same mentality oh yeah we're we're we grew up as gum in terms of our lineage by the time I grew up my grandfather was clean shaven he was from he was Holocaust Survivor he wore a GLE and a hat but he didn't look like a GID right but when he was a kid before the War he absolutely looked like a g he grew up a g so you knew it from your youth you knew it you car 100% so we had on and off relationships when my you know levels I should say of connection when my zi died uh my family was very involved in dedicating not only the Bas Med in B Park um but also then a Bas Yakov of G in ashod um so we've had connections to various members of the G mishak and Leadership over the years but it was more of like you know when we wanted um you know and it was more of a we dabbled if you will and as you said of all of the grandchildren all of whom I think are proud of this relationship but Yakov has taken it most to Heart partially because he has a little bit of he has a heart he loves he loves learning it he loves the social meu of it theem part of it he loves all of it and he happened to been iniva getting into learning ofus like so many young people even without our family connection so many young people in our generation are interested now Inus he was no different and especially he was interested inas because of the family connection and he had remembered when he was 13 we were already living in Israel I took him before his bar mitzvah to meet Ral alter and the g rebbi you could still do both of those on the same day right at the time uh yes that's nine years uh 11 years ago excuse me so was one of his first years in Yeshiva whena alter went out on his own and like Yakov had this epip well that's the one that I met when I was 13 or 12 and a half and he really loved him then ralter was very personable and related even to this Anglo almost 13-year old boy even then so all of a sudden now Yakov at this point is a first or second year Bas medish he's Ben Torah he's learning kidus and R alter is starting out this new Bas medish and he started going and developed a relationship and ralter remembered him and remembered my grandfather um and and before he drafted yakob drafted right after the pesak of the original Corona year that year you could even have SATA with your parents everything was 2020 yeah and um we have he sent Yakov a handwritten letter before Yakov drafted know sh you are my and anytime you you know are out and free you know always come to me see me you're always invited be safe you knowes and all of yakov's original service whenever he would have a shabas off or a time off he would always visit sometimes before he came home to visit shalter so he has kept up that connection now for a number of years and it's really a a tremend Shar a voice note with me before sh I'm sure it wasn't just with me but he shared a voice note with me that um he spent his Shas I guess in in service and was concerned the environment the circumstance wouldn't be the cabala sator that he was hoping for and that R told him Yakov don't forget the Torah was originally given in a desert you'll be okay you could accept the Torah in a desert he's had that was incredible another thing I'm not sure if he shared with you um it's also gone viral and he's very humble so he often takes his name off of things I hope he won't be upset at me for sharing this now but when he in the middle of his initial service he wrote a letter to Sha's younger brother of Daniel who's also a very significant and one of the leaders of that new community um talking about how do I keep shabas in the Army this is something that bothered him even when he was younger when he was before a few years ago when he was just in regular hezer he spent one day in the summer going to n to visitar who was visiting at the time and R alter to ask about how do I MA shabas while I'm driving a Jeep being M shabas right so this is something that's always been on him and it wasn't then or now a question as much because it's pretty clear what the right thing to do is but emotionally so more recently during the war he sent this letter to Danielle who wrote him back very beautiful short but beautiful letter how you're not being m you are being showare shabas by being showare on the Jewish people now this letter you know it's been published even in widely inic circles it doesn't mention Yakov by name it says Dear you know in Hebrew and then it's raced which what he would he has no interest in it being public but to the point that some of the more extremist elements in the kidish world felt that this was like you know so to speak too zionis or too supportive of a soldier like that's how viral this has gone that Danielle andal even that's how warm and affectionate it was and they get criticized for it so that's also Yakov had of being the someone who facilitated that incredible letter um as well so he has this very beautiful relationship and our family has an an ongoing relationship you mentioned that Ral alter's mother just passed away so we did have a relationship with her um as I mentioned the Pam died very young tragically but then when my family was very involved in doing things to marry my grandfather the Pam had already just died but um we kept an ongoing relationship with his Ritson my mother came for many years on my Z's y site she came he's buried in haros my mother comes to visit and she and my bubby when she was still alive and my aunt would visit with the G rabbitson who spoke multiple languages including Yiddish Hebrew and English and I think a few others she was very very smart um and they have actually did have an ongoing relationship with her beautiful so I know you're you're thank you for your time you're in a little bit of a rush because you are on your way to a barbecue at an army base something that you do with some relative frequency um not only as a father of and a but in your capacity of Tash so on that zigzag tour of your career leaving Baltimore you never anticipated probably is your role now in salash so talk to our audience tell them those who don't know what what is salash why is it important why was it important before the war what are some of the things that it's doing and you just shared this new safer I'm really excited about also um tell us what what this is and what it's about thank you so much so Tash is an Israeli organization which is dedicated to the support providing support for the religious and emotional needs of soldiers and their families we are not one of the ad hoc initiatives that started after the war there have been many of those and they're very wonderful but understandably they'll probably also disappear after the war but we are in our now in our 11th year so we've been doing this for many years and we will continue doing it as long as there is a sahal I've been involved for three full years now I'm just about to start my fourth year and that was a zag in my career uh but basically my when my son Yakov was in the Army all those years ago um I became acquainted again as an O as an Anglo first time as a parent even more so than having had students of the religious challenges of being in the Army and not and I want to stress because the Army is doing anything deliberately antagonistic to the religious soldiers on the contrary in my experience the Army is parve to positive to religious soldiers you can have isolated incidents a difficult Commander but overall the Army is very supportive but just the nature of the work it is so intense it is so exhaustive it requires all of your physical and even mental energy it doesn't always leave room for positive you know religious experiences the amount of time and energy it takes to invest in right your relationship with Hashem it's not an easy thing so Myriad of different challenges and I first became aware of it through seeing what Yakov was struggling with initially when he was in the army and it was a tremendous braa to us that there was this organization which I at that time had never heard of called salash a rabbi named R parit Einhorn who's the founder of tashu I at that point had never heard of and Hashem orchestrated it that they came into yakov's life and they and he or parot particularly helped Yakov a lot in his service so I started the volunteering I would record D Torah for Yakov originally in English to share with his friends eventually R parot asked me to do it in Hebrew for other soldiers and I started as a donor not the biggest donor I would add what Tash is an acronym yes I'm sorry so Tash yeah thank you isava we are there to help the religious soldiers and help them be as devoted uh to Torah andem as they want to be we don't pressure anybody there's no hard cell Cur it's for anyone who wants that emotional and religious support absolutely we Have No Agenda about who goes to the Army we avoid that whole discussion but if you're in the Army we want to help you be as religious as possible and specifically as connected to Torah and that's what I saw Yakov benefit from I started helping out a little bit as I say a volunteer donating whatever I could afford and then as I say almost three plus years ago Rabbi Einhorn or parrots came to see me and he said I need a partner was a startup he felt he had gotten as far as he could on his own he had some employees but no one on a senior level like him and he asked me to to join him and I said no three times actually yeah not because the because I really was I wasn't interested and um I had my own career ready I finally landed on two feet yeah I was looking to start over again three years ago but he was so sincere and so idealistic and he just couldn't understand what I meant when I said no right the Jewish people need us he didn't take no for an answer so tell us some of what salash does what are some of the examples it's a beautiful image the idea that the Army a person shouldn't feel that that the the highest level you can get to is not losing religion correct the goal shouldn't just be not to lose religion the goal should be why can't you be having a religious experience and religious that's exactly exactly again my partner and the founder parot always preaches this internally when we have our meetings but also you know to to the to the soldiers themselves uh themselves when he visits um and basically the idea is very complicated but to be simple is to put it in simple words I guess you could say Obviously the format of how they're going to express their religiosity is going to be different when they're serving if they're coming from Yeshiva especially they went from Yeshiva to the front lines or even just to an army base you can't compare but it's really a mindset you are an EV hasem you are a Ben Torah and that doesn't change because you're in the Army How would how much time you have to Davin to learn of course that's going to change but we want you to see everything including the Army service the push-ups the running the shooting everything as part of it is a Mitzvah incredible Mitzvah to defend and it's part of you're not unra it's not that it's such an important Mitzvah that all others are off it is that it's an expression of your not only if you have that attitude will that uplift and transform all of the physical things you're doing as a soldier which is already a huge win if you see all of those as a religious expression right but it will also hopefully give you the mindset the frame of mind and the inspiration and strength that when you do have the free time to make sure that not only did you doin but learn and other things the main diagnosis I would say and this is the key to everything we do is that I think most people think of the challenge first of all they think that we should only play defense right not just offense like you said but also they think of it exclusively in terms of the exposure to whatever negative elements you could imagine and anything you're imagining is probably true because of course it's not a simple environment clearly not and our approach is that while those things are absolutely potentially vulnerabilities but they're actually Downstream the most fundamental question is the mindset and remaining connected to some level of Torah study so what does Tash do to to make that connection keep that connection so leave aside the war because that's one big parenthesis yeah because everything has changed the soldiers and their missions have changed and therefore we had to adapt like the barbecue thing you mentioned which I think is very important we never did a single barbecue before the war right now I'm not saying we won't continue doing it after the war because we've found the beauty in that but we focus is on 10 different things which would involve visiting the soldiers visiting their bases we have thank God K hor now a very growing staff we're growing tremendously we've tripled in the last three years but a growing staff that visits the soldiers regularly up and down throughout the Army all the different combat units to connect with them to meet with them and to encourage their only Independent Learning and also to learn with them so to take one example which we're maybe most famous for we have published probably well over a 100,000 volumes of little pocket sized garas paperback that fit in the soldiers Pockets not only to encourage them to be able to be learning while they're working and doing their service but often we'll do visits we're not just there to give a Shear we do give sheum and other organizations also doing it's all wonderful but that's not really the secret sauce we want them to have active experiences so we will transform That Base into a base Mish maybe there's only 45 minutes no problem we pass out these garas we say okay now we are gonna learn or Su and every two guys you do you do gim you do and then with a 35 40 minutes all of a sudden this unit that maybe last night was rolling around in the mud and crawling under a tank or who knows what they were doing now they just made a seeum on a m as a team and the guy who was who knows what last night now has his friend on his soldiers shoulders excuse me and they're singing tmim right it's a transformative experience it gives them a little bit of a taste if they didn't pick up a safeer and all the time they were in the army or whatever who could blame them yeah you could easily defend it Hally forget emotionally it's not about that though it's not only impact their their own personal growth it's impacting the morale the Army exactly so it's not about blame if they don't do it but you can't at any age let alone their age go that long without an injection of the positive yeah religious experience so has been making spiritual barbecues for the soldiers long before the way exactly and these suum again they uplift the soldiers they commit and what you just said by the way very perceptive we have been getting feedback anecdotally even from midlevel officers and including in one case we have it on our website a testimonial from one of the most senior generals a few years ago in the Army who's not religious at all about how grateful the Army as an institution on an official level is grateful to Tash because we give so much motivation yeah to the religious soldiers and they are F the soldier is not just religiously holding on or feeling shame or guilt for religiously slipping or sliding but feels they're still in a growth mode is going to be a more our attitude is not only to push the learning but it's part of a framework in which they see their army service yeah as a mission religious experience tell us about this safer so they're very motivated so one of I mentioned that I was very um hesitant initially to join what pushed me over the edge was a conversation with rasher Weiss and after I explained my own doubts and what else I was doing as a rebi and I'd have to give that up and I'd have less time for my own learning my own teaching is it even right to to give that up so at the time R said to me to help the is kashim there is nothing more important so with that you know somebody of that level says something that clear to you that cut through my hesitation and literally walking out of his office three plus years ago I called my wife and said I'm doing it right fast forward to the war so shortly after the War Began when we finally just had recovered from our own shock and salash also was completely caught by surprise I don't just mean as average citizens but every other male but me was called up including the surf parrots who's 40 plus years and maybe not in the best shape so now he's in the raban but he was in a uniform away from his family for months all the young guys I told you about who doing all these base visits they were called up on me luim it was me and a few women who were left running and we all sudden had a new Mission and we were doing tons of things that we had never done before getting huge numbers of religious objects and resources to a quantity of soldiers and reservists far greater than anything we had been used to so we were doing all sorts of things but we were kind of just getting over our shock kind of getting our footing three or four weeks into the war when there was a request from soldiers who are already getting huge things from us we were doing I was going to army bases up and down the coast from north to south every day at that point delivering kashim and sadur and these garas and mishas and tons of things and the soldiers asked me do you think it would be possible to getas aser of Asher Weiss Farm I was totally skeptical I take no credit for the idea yeah I said are you sure I mean those aren't easy Farm even that's you're going to learn in the field right in the war right so I went end up speaking to two different soldiers I didn't accept one I wanted two a him two different people I asked without explaining even why I just said if I could get you would you your friends do you think and I asked two different people from two different units and when they both said yes I drove to raote and I went who of course knew me and knew the organization and I said to him we'd like to do it at that point it was for gracious yeah acious and he I want you to know I don't think he'll be embarrassed to say to admit he was also skeptical really so I said rasher listen there's a request I think it could let's do a thousand copies of a volume on braus so I worked with his son-in-law banish and together we picked which you think you know pieces would be on every parti of bra ious one and one in a few days we raised the money we put together I said I'll take care of everything I just need your right published the book in two days a thousand copies were gone we printed another thousand then we did khaka then we didos then we did PM then we this volume now on by midbar is our eighth volume and we've printed in these eight now almost 20,000 copies I cannot tell you how many pictures how many videos I have and I've shown them to R user and he is so touched by every one of soldiers on the Lebanon Border in cunis in Rafa in buildings with no electricity where sometimes I have videos of people thanking me with the all they have one of those like minor lights on their headbands you can hear the bombs in the background and they're learning Minas AER it's incredible tremendous what they have so this is one of not the only but our latest and maybe our most exciting I go we can speak for hours and hours thank you for all that you're doing really really incredible it is incredible and please God uh your children should come home and this the hostages should come home the soldiers should be safe and you should go back to helping soldiers grow while they're in their active duty because that's their role but without any threat to their lives or without any war that they're fighting and your kahila should continue to grow in Safety and Security and Russia should never have to be about wars again and thank you for all that you're doing and thank you for your friendship and thank you for making time with us today I appreciate it I thank you for having me and I thank you for all the incredible work you're doing first of all I know you and youra have been among the leaders in helping the soldiers and helping people in Israel so thank you for everything that you've done in that regard and thank you for help leading a flourishing community in bokeh I don't know what Hashem has in mind for Anglo jury for American jury or for boa it's way above my pay grade but you were doing great things where you are and hopefully one day those great things can also take place in isra as soon as we find out we'll let you know please God we'll be here together thank you so much okay thank you Ka thank you so much for coming from kirona to be with us and to give us a little bit of insight into what's happening um the Jewish world the whole world has been very focused on the Gaza border Gaza itself following the news of what's Happening up North but really not appreciating what life has been like for residents of the North many of whom have been evacuated I understand that many is close to 100,00 I just heard from someone that they got a letter from the government saying they shouldn't expect to go home until at least June 2025 which is a year from now to begin going home which is hard to imagine I know you're still in Katona which I thought everyone was evacuated so thank you for being with us and and letting us get a little bit Insight education and feel more for what's happening up there so you're still there there are there residents still in kimona now yeah first of all thank you for having me here and um basically there in Kira there's uh about 25,000 residents I mean normal times um the beginning of the war eight months ago U they evacuated the 23,000 residents there are currently now still about 2,000 residents who still in kir MAA some of them are elderly people who just uh Liv their the whole entire life and been there all of the wars in Israel and they're not going to go away not from anything right and some of the people also of personnel that's still working kacha you know if it's this municipality the city behold if there's it's the medical centers essential workers essential workers basically um police and all that um so there's about 2,000 residents still in kirat Mona for those who don't know where is kirat Mona okay so um we have the upper Galil um way way way um near uh uh right just uh on the boorder of Lebanon where there's a few Kim there's meta margaliot Manara um we're right at the edge there um not so far from the Mount Hermon whoever knows um half an hour from the mount helmon we're about 20 minutes from the Lebanese border I mean by car um very beautiful place lot of beautiful scenery mountains very beautiful I've been there many times a wonderful place to visit so you're one of the 2,000 residents who has stayed during this time uh um when you weren't on milim and part of the time um so uh the first part I was uh first uh four months I was in active duty in uh the war from October 7 then when I got out um around the middle of February so uh I came back to Kira and I've been there in the central of Israel you know back and forth back and forth living there as much as you can and so I want to hear more about your active duty but first k what's been like since February while you've been back we've been reading a lot of stories about the fires that started from their missiles the drones the Drone attacks the danger have been a lot of sirens do they even have sirens is there enough time for Sirens to go off what's life like daily for those 2,000 residents who are still in K let's start and say it's not life I know what people have a sense of what life is but it's not a life I mean people live there well some bit of people live there but the town is empty you drive and you see empty streets there's no cars you don't see people walking around with dogs or whatever the town is empty essentially empty I can even tell you um when you drive around the city even the traffic lights sometimes they turn them off why they don't want cars to stop in intersections maybe get hit by direct missiles wow you need to understand that um first of all doll arms does work in K Mona and you have have 10 seconds not always a lot of the times you can you first hear the boom explosion then you hear the alarm comes on uh sometimes when they should all love missiles you know so um that's when people start like really running to shelters you know because uh if they shoot only one missile then it's if you're near a shelter and you manage to get there in the the few seconds then okay and if not then not um the when they shoot rockets at the there through there's three kind of things they they do first they have the the long missiles you know that they shoot from Deep from Lebanon um they have direct missiles that's when you just pick up your weapon aim and shoot you look for a Target and shoot mhm and the third one is the drones you know all the suicide drones or explosive where they uh you know they that is it's slower because they don't go as fast as like direct missiles and all that but still they come you know you don't always see them the Iron Dome doesn't always uh manage to uh exactly so um so that's also a part of the things we get attacked with um so that's the life in K every day you wake up and it's not a question of if it's going to happen it's a question more of like when it part of the day it's going to happen um so that's about that's about the and the wi is that the siren will go off you'll have to run to a shelter yeah not if but when or how many times that day that will happen look it it really depends it could be either um five 10 times a day could be also once a day last week they their Festival uh so they didn't even shoot at all but usually it it happens like on a daily bases you hear sirens all the time um it is what it is and that's the definition of Terror the whole idea of Terror is it terrorizes and that you can't live life normally and people have to evacuate their homes and anyone who thinks that there's not a War right there's a lot of conversation will War break out in the north but I don't know what the definition of war is if if tens of thousands of people having to evacuate their home is not even losing a war then I don't know what war is so there is a war and like you describe it's not a life the war started October 7 I think everybody knows that I think not everybody understands that the war that broke out not only against his balah not sorry against Hamas in Gaza started there um the reason why uh the whole North was evacuated pretty quickly because there was a you know fear that uh it's only a better of time until is going to cross the border start butchering everybody there right they evacuated everyone didn't have to even shoot one rocket and 880,000 residents were out of the North already you could say you already won the war I mean from that point of view that you know every day that 80,000 people are not having their lives there that's like a it's a war at the end of the day it's a war at the end of the day sure so um look the the Army does obviously does shoot back and there is a you know like there's active war going on there's explosive you can always hear explosions you can hear the uh our missiles their missiles all the time it's a war zone at the end of the day that's the definition of War Zone um the war continues and the thing is that just no one knows exactly when it's going to end because um it's a war but like you said you just said it's a war against a terrorist organization it's not like a war against a state we are used to also Israel itself used to like you know Six Day War weed to fight against States right much easier and I mean from a point of view and it's very understandable When The War finishes is once you beat their army whatever right what's the definition of the success here yeah so I'm just saying that that uh this war we're fighting against the terrorist organizations obviously and there how can you define what what do you define finishing the war or winning the war uh I think that everybody now understands that the only way to finish a war to defeat destroy evil or the terrorist organization destroy them not making them not making with them deals for them to break again and again and again right just destroying destroy them have they been fires in K have the drones or missiles led to fires yes so a few weeks ago um there were very very very big fires um started near Kira and the mountains there from a missile that came exploded and it was extreme weather those days it was very hot so the fire got caught very quickly and uh the fire went all the way down from the mountains to kirona to the first lines of houses also to theiva which is also located pretty high uh in K uh in the mountain um it was a struggle I mean it was a everybody worked not only the fire department ah I was going to say even the fire department couldn't even send um the planes you know that um that help with the water they couldn't even bring them because they were afraid that will shoot them down right so everybody has to work together the Army the fire department even civilians who just came out and tried to help as much as they can to fight to make sure the Fire doesn't enter start burning down the entire neighborhoods there were buildings that got affected from the fire it burned down but um basically we managed to prevent the fire from entering the whole city but was smoke for days like heavy heavy heavy smoke you can even breathe there you can walk around it was it was difficult um I was going to say but the the severe damages in K not from the fire from all the Rockets there over 400 H and homes apartments did get damaged by the Rockets yeah drones Rockets everything that Iron Dome didn't shoot them down or shrap off from Iron Dome or because there's no residents there they're not rushing to shoot them down um I guess it's all of the above um Iron doome does manage to take care of most of them but not 100% all of them so obviously it probably misses here and there uh sometimes they believe it's going to fall in uh somewhere else it falls I don't know where and there's shrapnel also the shrapnel make a lot of uh damage wow now you mentioned you're um a graduate of you mentioned the Yeshiva the HDA Isa in Kira you're a graduate of that Yeshiva I have a nephew who learned and is studying still part of the hezar of that Yeshiva it's so difficult for Yeshiva to relocate because the guys who signed up to go there didn't signed up to go in another city and the reim who's a big part of Yeshiva experience being able to go to a Reb's home if a rebbi doesn't have a home because he's evacuated or is in miluim it also compromised is the experience so and despite that you were mentioning the Yeshiva has signed up for next year how many new sh Al guys 30 students 30 new students for sh off despite being dislocated relocated which really is an extraordinary Testament to the Yeshiva yes I want to say even more than that it was difficult also because theiva is very uh connected to the city um there's a lot of activities with the students and the residents in the city theiva helps a lot needy organizations to hand out a lot of you know packages for the needy people uh there's a lot of projects the you know projects that the Shiva does with the city make more mitzvas I know B yeah also B project and there's a lot of projects I was saying that H the Shiva moved the relo the Army relocate them inim near just outside um and it was difficult because then because the Shiva like all the other evacuates from the city are just scattered all over the country and the connection is is very you know it doesn't exist anymore the rabbis who have their own families talking about the rabbis in theiva they have their own families to take care of and they're also evacuated and they they're not in they are some of them live in the live they're renting now in eat and in Jerusalem natania all over the country they have to drive every day an hour at least to De Shiva every day back and forth the whole thing is the whole operation of doing is complicated wow and and um you were back in K in February but before that from October 7th you were called back up what what unit do you serve in in the Army so I serve in a comet engineering unit we deal with uh mines and explosives um especially with uh uh finding tunnels and uh exploding them so um first what are you allow to share with us about that what does it mean to find a tunnel and we've seen a lot of videos come out where they were able to track the opening of the tunnel sometimes in a child's bedroom sometimes in a school in a hospital um but what what does it mean to destroy the tunnel we found the beginning of tunnels like you said also in schools and also in the children's rooms and houses and everything uh first of all when you locate a new tunnel well you discover one you have to make sure that it's not booby trapped or anything to see that the you know there's no terrorists or it's hiding behind whatever right um once we clear that part we and we check the whole uh compound if it's a school or or or whatever if the Army decide it wants to destroy it for some reason then we destroy it and if not then we don't destroy it then we continue to look for uh other uh either it's terrorist or other tunnels but uh the beginning when we went into Gaza we found we didn't find like a few tunnels we found dozens of tunnels all over Network entire subway system a whole subway system everybody I think was completely amazed and we're talking about like a few meters from the border right and I I was I was going to say that we know the same thing is also waiting for us in Lebanon balah also dug a lot of tunnels Kamas didn't make up the tunnel thing they learned it from kah they learned it from Iran at the end of the day this is something that we know that it's also going to have wait for us in uh when we go if there's going to be a war in Lebanon I mean there is an active war in Lebanon but I mean like a war where we try to destroy a a terrorist organization um we know that at the end of the day there's a lot of tunnels there think about talking about meters away from the from Resident homes on the border yeah no one can really live there when you know there's a terrorist organization ready to work and so what do you hope happens in the north there's talk about diplomatically trying to push Hezbollah back behind the river and if they're willing to go then maybe diplomatically we can walk things back the other hand there are people who argue don't believe them or don't enter into a diplomatic conclusion we have to go in we have to destroy them at their core at their Source they'll have Rockets it'll be a painful time but we can only live in peace and only can return those residents to the north if we have so how do you hope it ends look no one wants War at the end of the day at the end of the day we just want to be left alone live in peace and quiet the fact is the reality now how it is cannot stay up north people are not going to come back to their homes when they know that there's a terrorist organization on the fence now it's not like I want to russan and like you said be a ward it'll be a painful time a lot of casualties and everything but on the other hand we know that the deals it's not going to hold up last time 2006 after the second Lebanese War the UN resolu ution number 1701 his was supposed to move back to the Lani river right assigned to do it it was supposed to do it the UniFi the the the Army Force of the UN was supposed to uphold to see that it's it's that that's that's what's going to happen but we know what happened in the end it didn't happen right went back down to the border and build all of his army structures there with tunnels and everything so what's so to make a again I mean to wait until the next seven of October to happen at the end of the day there's good and there's bad there's right and there's wrong got to get rid of the bed I think everybody understands that there's only one way if you if there's a terrorist organization the only way to deal with it is not to make a deal with it it's to destroy it and and while there's controversy surrounding Gaza and Kamas of which there isn't for us it's obvious there also the choice between good and evil but up north Israel is not occupying anyone's land there's no refugee camps there's no argument for um you know the background of of why there're simply terrorists on a border who are looking to destroy and to kill Israel and you think the International Community would rally around Israel about that northern border that this is our land and we rightfully have it and we're not it's not being challenged by others we just deserve to have the safety the peace and security and and yet the International Community does not get that how involved are you when media come to kirona or to the area try to understand what's happening are is are you persuasive are they able to become educated on it can we turn the world around to understand that these 80,000 residents deserve to go home and that's a basic right of every citizen that the country protect them like you said you would think that everybody will understand it seems like a lot of people in the world don't understand the simple thing I I even want to say it's not like it's not like you said not occupying anything in 2000 we withdrew from the southern the Lebanon s the Army went out of there and in the year 2000 right we gave them back everything they wanted but at the end of the day like I said we're not fighting a state we're fighting an terrorist organization and I think that's what when when like you said media come to the cover the the whole war in Kona we try to emphasize the part that we're not fighting a state we're fighting a terrorist organization at the end of the day no one no country in the world would allow a monster like that grow and uh On the Border establish yeah straight on the border you know it's just it's it's not possible it's not possible that's what we show and we try to persuade them I hope that we you know do a good job but at the end of the day you know if uh if no one's going to be there to help us then we just going to do the job ourselves wow and you're saying that not just as a resident of kirona but you're saying that as somebody who's put his life on the line to to fight to be part of the IDF and sounds like you're willing to do that again because this fight is worth it that it's important to offer that security up there we have no other option we have no other we'll do it again and again and again until we'll get our quiet and peace wow K I know this is not close to kirona you slept in to be here um thank you thank you for getting the message out I hope those who are listening and watching all appreciate understand a little bit more what you're giving up and and you're M neish to be there at this time and all those who have been evacuated who are not living in their homes what they're giving up just to make sure that we have a presence there and Hashem should keep you and all of us safe and please God have safety on the northern border hopefully without a war and God forbid if with it it should be one in which we achieve our goals quickly and swiftly without any losses on our side Shem should protect and keep us all safe and thank you for your leadership in the Kon Community thank you for being with us today thank you very much for having me again thank you and we'll Hope For Better Days to Come amen thank you