#113: Behind the Bima - Rav Moshe Meiselman

from Boca Raton Florida rabbi's Ephraim Goldberg Philip Moskowitz and Josh Brody are taking you behind the bema the BRS Rabbi schmooze about contemporary issues and talk to special guests who give up behind the scenes look at how they got to where they are and what keeps them going welcome to behind the bema good evening Wednesday night 9 p.m I'm Rebecca from Gober joined by my colleague and my dear friend are by Josh Brody again on location this week we'll find out where and we're here to take you behind the bema behind the Bima what a special behind the Boomer it is the Russia of meisomenstores Moshe super excited Rabbi salovich's nephew to listen to learn so much about that special relationship about Torres Moshe about what he tries to mold and shape in his tamidam in his students but before we get there by myself and Rabbi Brody this is a big week it's a big week on the Jewish calendar I don't know if the funeral home calendars carry this date on that calendar yet I don't know if it appears but this is a big big week on the Jewish calendar yeah I I know you're talking about uh Yeshiva week but I'm thinking about a week you also had the the your side of the balotanya this week as well so I'm not sure which which direction we're going here you're inside of the balotagna a lot of very important significant Europe sites but this week begins Yeshiva week Yeshiva week is a fixture on the calendar today in Florida we prepare for Yeshiva week much like people prepare for a hurricane you go out you buy supplies early you fill your cars with gas you try I don't understand you hunker down you don't go out and you let the you let the storm pass and when it's safe to emerge again you can emerge again but you have all the supplies and everything you need in the meantime am I exaggerating around my Brody not at all first of all it began already I guess there's different schedules of some some yeshivas and some schools and some communities have off already last week yeah I went through our I went to meet someone at our bagel store all of a sudden I've never seen this before there is a sign outside the bagel store please wait to be seated what do you mean there's always a scene I look in I don't know it is an amazing phenomenon in fact it's such a fixture an institution such a phenomenon Wikipedia now has an entry on Yeshiva week but the truth is it's not Yeshiva week like you said it's Yeshiva weeks because New York New Jersey Chicago Cleveland everybody's staggering it now instead of coordinating cooperating they don't want to overlap with others whatever their thinking is I don't understand the phenomenon fully but it's now staggered so we have several weeks this might be Yeshiva month not Yeshiva week but we love it we love it and we're lucky and I want to remind our fellow Floridians that we get to live in the paradise that others flock to for one week we get to live there all year round so be patient be humble be gracious be warm be welcoming be patient and in fact I I several years ago I wrote an open letter about Yeshiva week both to the visitors and to the locals and I received I think three or four requests two restaurant owners and some people asked me to re-release it so I updated it I rewrote it and just posted it this week as an open letter both to the residents you know and to the visitors to visitors you know things like that the white lines are not suggestions try to park in between them you know suggestions like you know um you don't put your cart online and then go shopping and fill it that's not our definition of online shopping only go on the checkout line once you're done and to the local residents about being patient and gracious and sharing what we have introducing saying your name being hospitable what an opportunity it's great you don't need to honk here there's just just be patient be patient one might be checking a text message just give them a second okay when the light turns green it's okay that millisecond won't make the difference you can take a deep breath I promise you they will go 100 we used to be on the other side that's the crazy thing people don't believe we grew up in the Northeast both when we can't tolerate the cold or when we act like such Floridians we're not natives here we're like the iguanas we were abroad here and uh and now and now we live here but we love it we love you Shiva week we welcome everyone if anyone needs anything please get in touch with everybody Brody he'll be happy to help you write your phone number I'll tell you I'm I am so shocked right now that no one decides like every every one of these people that come down to South Florida doesn't decide just to move here when they see the growth and the shuls and the yeshivas you're the new Yeshiva you just built I'm surprised you go back just send your stuff down yeah just stay yeah just stay yeah in any case it's exciting and we're grateful and we're we're looking forward to having the uh having all those guests uh down here so someone sent out an email last night maybe he's watching the show right now he had a question his son is single you know his late 20s looking to move to Boca sent it out at like a 9 45 last night so let's check if I happen to be checking my mind you know I don't get any notifications but I was just scrolling through about 10 o'clock so I realized you just send it to me so I'll just call him he was so shocked that we called him back so quick he never expected I said what do we do here I get that a lot also thank you for answering me so quickly it's not that's basically courtesy no it's kind of mentioning if you want to read more about it you can see it at Rabbi from goldberg.org Yeshiva weeks with an S now that it's Yeshiva weeks Rabbi Brody take us into it by myself and I've always followed and read and learned and heard and I've been impacted by tell me them by students our new KOLO at Yeshiva South Florida Rabbi bugapolski as Bugsy uh known uh his acronym his nickname rather as as Bugsy is a faint talmud of myself and so many others but you got to see up close tell us that story close you know I I'm actually a a graduate of tourist motion I didn't spend too much time there but it was a very important step because it was a step between the world of of learning what it means to be in a base measures through through neriakov and then moving into a full-time experience at near Israel's I was in in in Taurus Moshe from pesach until the end of that's man in the middle of the summer and it was definitely a a an Awakening it was something which I never you have to let's just put this in perspective you know what a Yeshiva looks like you you started a Yeshiva you can anticipate what a base mattress looks like I never had this experience all of a sudden it not that I wasn't learning the whole reason I left near Jacob and right but Lyft encourages us after a year and three quarters to leave is because now you got to be in the world of the whole full-time based met rich and you know someone went to basis Trail one guy went to the mirror I was the one that was selected to go to Taurus Moshe and uh it was a great experience it was it was something I certainly never forget had a chance to learn with Rabbi uh Michael sherkin great one of the All-Stars and his nickname Bugsy but an amazing story is when we begin this conversation with her by maisel man this part you won't see so Rabbi Brody was concerned will he remember me does he know me I went there it was so long ago and I'm not sure I say something what if he fires me what if he asks me about what I learned back then anyway we come on the screen and reminds me goes Josh I haven't seen you in so long what is so long when were you in torus Moshe it was 19 1995. 1995. I can't even do that math but 1995 it's that long and it tells you what kind of ready what kind of Rush of Shiva he is and how much he cherishes his Tommy them the writer he goes Josh I hear great things about you I haven't seen you in so long that's really an amazingly special part of who he is can I just say for all the rebaim out there and all the receivers that are watching behind the bema because I'm sure you all are it it what it does for a talmud when you hear that I tell you there's many years I've actually been very close to walking back into the Yeshiva but I said I don't know what am I gonna say I don't know who I am you hear something like that also you want to go back I told you today I said let's go to let's go ello let's just spend a day in different yeshivas and what a message what how you're so right you know just just acknowledging someone just using them you could change their life remembering yeah having Nostalgia just reflecting back and just celebrated from his 80th birthday he celebrated his 80th birthday coinciding with the 40th anniversary of the Yeshiva remarkable extraordinary longevity and difference and he has so much to share so much to offer about his uncle about Russell about the love and uh and so much to offer more than that so it's really not on a privilege a great source to bring to our conversation with it's a great class to be joined with her Moshe meizerman schlit in the Russia Shiva of Terrace Moshe to go behind the bhima to learn more about and to be inspired by the tremendous passion for Torah and accomplishment in in growing Torah Amish around the world where sushima it's a great squish thanks so much for this opportunity so I want to begin by asking the Russia the rashiva just celebrated a major Milestone birthday and the Shiva celebrated a major Milestone with a beautiful beautiful dinner and what we've just opened the new Yeshiva here in our community Yeshiva South Florida polski Bugsy is a member hush of a member of arcolo what what should we be thinking about in starting a Yeshiva one of the most important things in in founding Yeshiva and growing Yeshiva and graduating tamidam of Yeshiva what's the focus of the Yeshiva be the focus actually was two things to educate and to inspire Inspire will that educated educating without Inspire doesn't work yeshiva's goal is two things Educators by what a young man comes in if he leaves the same way he came in it'd be just a little more to our information you haven't achieved anything purpose of Torah education is to change a person and the random rides at the end of hills mcvos they're just like going into Mikvah you come in you go and throw me and you go out to our even though there's really no physical change if you immerse yourselves the rambams lotion in the waters of pure knowledge which he means Torah so then it changed sure it uplifts you it purifies you and Torah has a capacity to change but the rambam writes only if he wanted to change you you otherwise just cover information meant to provide both of those things the Russia speaks often about I've learned the notion of single-minded focus what does that mean what does it mean to have a single-minded focus we say every day in your davony that is that people have to have multiple goals the proper purpose of the whole area which is on the one hand what Yeshiva tries to do by educating well joy means when your eyes light up with a real Havana Center or a real understanding of Torah then with then you attach yourself more closely to the midst that you do and not only perfunctory they're part of your being and then the Africa venu that is a single-minded that's people go through life with many different goals if you have one specific goal and then everything revolves around that goal that single-minded Focus if certain people their goal in life is to make money and everything they do in life revolves around that a Jew's goal is we say that every day before we say creation the ultimate goal the word our eyes light up with the understanding of Torah this is what we're gonna do and this is where we want to get and the single-minded focus means even if a person's at work if a person is getting a secular degree if a person whatever one is doing but his goal in life is and everything else is a means towards that end whether it's hispanosa whether it's this whatever he's doing is it a means to that end or not a means to that end and interpersonally in a relationship with a spouse with children also it's towards that end yeah everything that that's what we say every day and I mean that's our ultimate goal and everything is a means to that I raise the family with certain goals what do I want to achieve with my children what is it and what are the what are the relationships that are honest relationships you have with people there are two types of relationships with people you have functional relationships and personal relationships a functional relationship I go into a store the person at the checkout counter I don't have a personal connection with them what is the pro what is it they tell me how much it is this is how much I pay it's a functional relationship personal relationship we met we share something together as a person now sir different people share their Core Essence what is the Core Essence of a human being whereas being is broken and those and when you share that with a person becomes an honest deep personal relationship what do I share with my children what do I that which is my Core Essence and that is to come close to Hashem Rabbi Brody well speaking of relationships at what age did the Russia Shiva begin learning with his uncle described the experience it depends digital levels of learning first thing I learned with him was when I was seven years old he it was we were summer together my parents had will live in one place but we were down the street from each other and he taught me rosh hashanamasa hmm and other young most of what I know about the Rosh Hashanah davening comes when I learned with him when I was seven years old the more that's number one later on I began learning with him in Bob mitzia when shortly before I was 18 years old it was I guess two months before I was 18 years old it was a little overwhelming it was a three ways of Russia the four-way he was learning with me the son Francis and we're learning to have awesome together and obviously with him meant I had to work preparing everything because when you learned with them it was learning with your presuming you were holding with him at all of Shas it said but it took a while to get used to but then I got used to it and for authorship I learned that was from January 1960 until I left um I left him that was in in 1971 when I when I left New York until then we I learned with him about some more than one but I uh after I got married I was living in New York I was in hashir in learning with him and doing both simultaneously but it was a little short of 12 Years one on one and it was a very deep personal relationship wasn't just learning it means I spent a lot of time with him I lived in his house for many months during the summer I would move into his house and when it was a vacation with learning with him meant was We Begin we diving eat breakfast begin nine o'clock in the morning we are non-stop till seven in the evening with a break for 15 minutes for sandwich a little bit of lunch we sat down but it was non-stop 10 hours without a break without anything wow that's for two months in the summer very intense non-stop learning it was a it was in addition we had a very close personal relationship recently on the on the yeshiva's video his son the Rob's son Dr khaim salovich in the interview said that the Russia Shiva was one of the few who understood his father's Derek what did he mean by that in what way is his father's data misunderstood and what what did he mean that the direction you're not quite quoting him accurately very few who but he meant is as follows he said there are salimwood how to approach a soldier I don't think through Gamora how to conceptualize the car there's and that and he felt and my rep is from my house and felt that I was able to do it with the black camera where he was able to do with the blood camera I understood his tariff and I could be my mom shuttle service would consider are loyalties I don't talk about people okay so and the Derek is specifically that's what that's what Dr salvation was referring to that put it this way I had no other rubby in my life for he he shaped me he formed me you see it was very different some people know him from this year this speech it wasn't one issue in life I did without discussing it with him right we had a very deep personal relationship he once made a very simple there's a Gamora it says so he asked the question what is what's the comparison between a Talman and Evan says and other owns an avid how does a rabbi own a talmud he says he creates him in um what I create is what I own whatever I am he created may he formed me he shape no so I can't say it was a very unique individual but I was shaped by him I was formed by him in my general attitudes and approaches very rarely do I deviate from the way he shaped me for me but my cousin Dr Sam Sullivan she's talking about their salimwood but also he understands he specifically settled with you but also the fact that a very close relationship and he shaped me for him I had no other he was my room I it's not that I had multiple influences I had a single influence I understand the rough would think through things with tell me them and he'd help them think through but wouldn't dictate to them so to say a Das Torah what they should think is that is that accurate I never put it this way every major decision I made in life I talked through with him with me certain things he dictated he he said this is what you should be doing didn't tell me I had to do it this is what you should be doing and he and there was a lot of back and forth in that and but everything I did I would say my major decisions in life is with one exception was was with his consent and his guidance and his Direction one thing he didn't did not want me to do was to move to average Israel dear can we ask what the reason was he felt they could contribute so much to American Jury I could sure do it in America on the other hand I felt I could do that also in our Orchestra why does the Russia Sheba think that that the rub is so misunderstood or misrepresented or distorted was he particularly prone to that or open to that was something about the rub that lent to that or a lot of it he didn't fit anymore so people said he did this that's me must be X and this must be why they're thinking they took certain pieces of him and they say in their own thinking this is what it must mean and it didn't mean that you have to understand people accuse him of things that he's he meant XYZ no time could say most of the thing he's a man who had a total sleep to on the entire Torah and has his ways of viewing things and when people view it through a different person it comes out very differently number one number two they never sat down and discussed the detail why are you saying this why you're doing this what's this all about where you're coming from I had that opportunity I was in I was a personal conversation to understand where he's coming from why he was doing things and what was in back of well that was an advantage I had because of my personal relationship he decided before ello to learn like who they talk in Ella he decided that's all other I discussed it with him but I didn't learn it with him you have to understand the man sat and learned poskin 99 of his day that's what he was all about people think this that on the side occasionally he he deviated some extra things but one summer I spent the summer with them going through all the rambans and now in dvorim excited he wanted to go to rambanon's room that's something so besides the regular learning we had a few hours a day going through all the rambons before that that it was very at that point he wanted to put a lot of effort into the rambanon Flemish and but what he was about except for instance when I satin those summons I was living with him and we sat and learned all day what was she what was he doing all day he he was sitting and swimming you know the Murray shown him and said it that's what he was doing so because that's what he that is what he was people who weren't with him 24 7 like I was can imagine oh he must have been doing this he must have been doing that that was such a peripheral part of his being that it was very much on the side but he sat all day was over gamar knows when ever was raising money for baranovic and he was two weeks in Boston with him this is story it's been published in another place he came to New York and says he doesn't understand what people talked about he never saw someone so involved in the Lima doctora that means but as Russia Bears boss and much more than anyone should she even Lithuania wow this is what that's Rebel hunting says that's all he saw him doing it's you if you ever read the court transcripts um the trial when between and his Library they asked his mother his wife robot travels and they asked his wife was your what was the relationship you had in Berlin which is when my father came to Berlin to visit the previous whoever came to Berlin he just found review sitting and learning um tomorrow all day that's what he was and people think oh it was this that and the other you know that he had certain peripheral things that he did the pair of drugs she was a wonderful darshan and said it but the essence of what he was almost every day was his glory she tells us that's what he wants that's what the man was did the Russia get drawn to other parts of Torah based on based on the rough does Rashida have an interest in Tanya any other areas or parts of the third he's the one who brought me very deeply into ramban very deeply into rampant other homage that mesh of the years I learned yes spent a lot of time with our family got her she has spent time with hammock Dover I spent time with Massachusetts that but he's the one who really pulled me very deeply into rambanon Commish that was a very big part of his whatever he did with Hamish ramban was there I also spent a lot of time in redrush I give Schumer madrish gosh I'm just wondering also when it came when it came to doing other things there was shiva's graduate of Harvard MIT did the education contribute to the rashiva's capacity to deliver clear organized high-level serum was there anything redeemable or positive that came from receiving that that education yeah it goes like this the Rover is a very precise thinker being meth being a mathematician force you to be very precise and very exact ly did I think they fed off each other being in the position necessary the way he would learn a piece of Gamora decision necessary mathematics it let off each other I also besides having an undergraduate degree in mathematics having undergraduate degree in philosophy I took a enough philosophy to be philosophy major did that influence me in my um in the way I approached a black convert it might be because that fed off each other mathematics was a certain type of position but I was getting that anyway from learning with him and I guess they fed off of each other you very much pushed me he said I anyway I was going to mathematics but he very much wanted me to do it he felt he felt that it would be how helpful I can't say but it's certainly that type of mathematics I went in of conceptualizing things is very similar to the type of learning that that he would approach in ingomar developing conceptual approach to the things rather than just analytical approach to things but that that was because that's the type of thing I was doing with him in Taurus so that was the type of thing I was used to well when the Russia was at Harvard and MIT the Russia was obviously visibly from religious outwardly religious and then the Russia I was the only yamak on campus well yeah on the whole campus and then the Russia went on to teach and that was the day before people were young it was the only Grand campus what was that like the Russian encounter bias anti-Semitism was it was it hard you know I was like this the first week of two hours on campus it was a shock to a lot of people to see someone walking around with the omelette and people came up to me to try to help me and tell me you know that's not really what we do here they were very friendly about it and the um but after that you know I was there there was one specific professor hmm oh had I realized what the um his father as this professor's father as dean of Harvard during the second world war refused to cyber papers to bring Jewish academics in into the universe into the United States yeah it was a very anti-semitic individual I took a course with him and it was at the end it was very visible that you know despite doing very well on the course that was it was and getting hundreds and everything I was going to get a b-plus anyway someone today today it's Again difficult for Jews to wear yamakas in some secular or public places it was a difficult world see it's a different world entirely different world now the Palestinian and woke culture and campuses creates tremendous anti-Semitism then it was a subtle under the because it was too close to the hot second world war and people to feel comfortable overtly and anti-Semitic well now because of everything is Palestinian pro-palestinian specifically Harvard is viciously anti-semitic of all the universe is probably the most difficult but I don't know the difference if you wearing you don't worry they're against Jews except you're more identiful Target but they're against Jews anyway then whatever anti-Semitism that did exist was a um a more subtle under the surface anti-Semitism it would after the second world war it certainly was not factionable to be overtly anti-submit it that one Professor I had when I realized afterwards way of where it's coming from he never would say anything to the guy with the almak in the class but um it was it was it was more under the surface and there was I I never encountered really any overt anti-semitism after after studying by switching mathematics the Russia Shiva keep up with the study of math that's what she enjoy today at all any relationship with mathematics let me explain to you what it means that I was I will I'll give you I'll give you my schedule when I was in MIT okay there was not Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday um I spent eight to nine hours a day minimum learning Torah Friday was all day Shabbos was all day Sunday I had to go into my office for an hour at night just to be ready for Monday morning other than I spent most of my time even then just learning Toro when I was a professor in mathematics I had a wonderful job as a professor of mathematics means I used to learn until 20 to 4 when I got a bus I was living in Washington Heights teaching in City College which is just down Amsterdam Avenue 20 to four I got on the bus going down Amsterdam Avenue walked into my class 12 46 was home at 6 30 prepared on the bus marked the papers on the bus on the way back and forth and I sat around the rest of the time um I was sitting and learning all day ended up doing whatever I had to do the moment I the moment it was gone I I haven't since I left mathematics I haven't opened a mathematics book okay Josh yeah I'm just wondering you know after uh leaving you ended up going to Chicago joining rosheba joined another illustrious Uncle what's the dynamic relationship between the Russia shiva's two uncles given their age Gap what did the roshiba most they were very different human beings yeah very very different human beings yes my uncle's Ralph was a European in the end of the day he never deeply understood the United States it was European my Uncle Robert's elevation came to United States shortly after his bar mitzvah so he was he was really very American and because of that they have exceedingly different as people number one also their thought process was was very very different they're very very very diff that they were both tremendous but their views of the world were different because one was American what was your opinion bags of the rubs never deeply understood America it was European what were some of the things that Russia learned from a baron basically was a pulse sake of pirate salons I'll tell you a story that once happened to me it's I was living in Chicago and so someone who I influenced and made from was he had a first marriage before he was from and then he became from he got divorced it was a very Club then now he was strong he wanted to get married he didn't give his first wife again it was it was a very complex Shiloh and he came to me what to do so I told him that listen coming weekend I'm gonna be in Boston visiting my parents visiting wherever he and I'll discuss it with him I said listen I'm very complicated child very complicated Shyla and I want to discuss it with you he says listen Sunday morning I say you're sure and come talk to me after this year shares he came up he would come home at one o'clock so one o'clock I was sitting there and he sat down we discussed it and it was a very complicated Shyla and he began analyzing it one way came out and I was sort of playing there the devil's advocate he came out one side with cooler I said maybe look at it this way says you're right and it came out with horror I said look at it this it was an hour back and forth he was he was grasping to get his hands on the Shiloh and after an hour going back and forth with me he says you know it's a hard shot that's my brother reviron now so I came back to Chicago and I sat down with my uncle around celebration you're gonna ask he thought for a few minutes he says they're 14 separate Childs Happening Here one two three four boom he took the Practical situation and which was as an incredible pulsate it's a very complex practical situation like in a few minutes there he split it into 14 different trailers and then proceeded to go one two three four five wow what that is the person of a posting on the top level to take a very practical situation and and split it into its different parts and that Russia bear was not up as he was a brilliant man but that wasn't always where he put his ability and developed his talents it was more a very an authoritation conceptualizing thing but it's taking very complicated practical situation and look at it and immediately split it down as a Byron did okay he thought for a few minutes and well let's what okay there are 14 separate issues Happening Here one two three now let's discuss each one separately but that was that that that is the cleansing with posting moved to Israel did the Russia Shiva maintain or continue relationship with the greater Salvage family with other brisker parts of the family what were those relationships so yeah talking learning or learn by or what was learned by England but I learned I have one already I have one ready well that was it I don't learn by anyone else you know I have one man you shaped me in every aspect of my bank but just the family relationships then there was a family relationship we're very friendly we're very close-knit family okay moved to Los Angeles and founded and ran Eula while being the posseco rub in the community how does balance being a REV and running a Yeshiva and having all those Mutual responsibilities and finding time to learn how can you be bolaya Torah while you're being polite Torah to teach and to inspire to be much be others how did the Russia manage all those multiple hats I'll tell you story Drew crime and Robert bear that time in Europe it was hardship to be a rough to be a Russia Shiva was considered to be like a Muhammad dardic so at that time there were two yeshivasca and that's the species of cases by Israel and and Broadway was Rove one the slobakka brothers Lester they offered a tour of our prayer work bad turned it down he said don't interfere with my learning a little bit later he met replying and was very proud to tell reply and he left he gave up something that was more prestigious at the time and had more money at the time and because he wanted to interfere with learning you're probably going to angry at him he says for Michelle that you grow every step of forces you to grow okay they brought him 24 hours in a day and obviously being opposing for Community forced me into many areas of her buffet that I had to perfect myself more than I previously had well obviously managing giving sure him at all both balabata to like I'm sure for women sharing the Yeshiva there I had to prepare and running things you have to you spend time learning things as well the 24 hours in a day a lot of time in the day to do a lot of different things if you know how to maximize your time the the you look the EULA Community Harvard MIT the Boston Community are probably identified more as modern Orthodox whatever that term means but a more you know what that means I don't know whatever it means I come from a different generation I grew up when they were just a handful of from people so the answer wasn't one that uh I grew up with Torah I know one Torah I don't know a modern Torah or an old-fashioned tour I don't know any of that so I can I relate to people because I have no problem relating to all sorts of people and all sorts of ways of life I have no political agenda I have nothing I learned Torah I teach Torah I Inspire and Torah and that's all I want to do I don't understand what modern Orthodoxy is if they take Torah seriously it's Torah if they don't take sorry seriously it's not no no I I don't know at all I I don't understand all these categories people have all these fine distinctions within the categories like modern Orthodox heavy modern oil for dogs like Yeshiva this I don't understand that I learned Torah I teach Terror I try to keep Torah and I try and inspire people about Torah that's all I know it's a single-minded focus as long as everyone shares that single-minded Focus they're part of the same Community if they don't if they have a different Focus it's a different community no that's it that's that's uh that's an amazing way to live and to see it how have in all the years of the Russia serving as rosh hashiva and tomal tarasimosha just marked a major Milestone however the tombidden changed over all these years what was different when Josh Brody was a talmud in in Torres Moshe versus today I'll tell you what I told him I'll tell you what I two major ways you'll see the Mishra says why what was the crime of illusions whole Innovation there were always she was so glad you throw where Empire valosha was young he learned Yeshiva myths is where she was the shaged sorry but what was he Yeshiva then and what did Yeshiva become the Yeshiva then was sat in the show he had a lot of people learning in the show they talked him and learning and they gave a share wasn't a structured in environment spread through Europe so what used to be that the home the Shoal the basement dish were all one integrated hole things things changed so there became a necessity for a Yeshiva to be a separate unit where Torah had its address and it was not necessarily just an extension of the home in the street Etc that was really what a change in response to the enlightenment the Revival ocean now when I first began the Yeshiva as what what was formal communication people had with everybody out there was one so Payphone off the radish I think you you can't remember that I remember that one paid fall off the basement issue you put your assim on and if you wanted to call for surgery had to go to the central post office and wait for half an hour an hour okay so it was much easier to have a closed environment nowadays you have the there's no such thing as close environment you have the entire world in your pocket with uh Toronto communication all the time that's one major difference and you have the world filtering in on all different ways and to focus on things when you have the world coming from all different it's much more difficult that's one major difference it's another major difference where I grew up people went to the movies what was going to the movies it was a tool two and a half hour movie with 10 minute break in the middle for popcorn or whatever so you had to learn to focus on something for over an hour an hour or 15 minutes Cubs television do you focus on something for 13 minutes between commercial comes the internet you don't focus on anything for more than 30 seconds click click click click you know folk people have to be trained how to focus on an extended period of time that's another major change that's happened over the years people's ability to sit and focus on one thing an extended period die when they're not used to doing that that's why the whole world has called ADHD because they're busy focusing running all over the place clicking from place to place so that's that's had a major impact on some medium that they're not in a distinct closed environment with plausible negative communication they're always in total communication with the world and with all its pluses and its minuses the ability to focus is much more limited and makes a major change and because of that we live in a world of increasing affluence which produces tremendous immaturity because you don't have to grow up so quickly the affluence reduces very delayed maturity because you don't have to take responsibility for everything just floating through life and force people to grow up and be adults make adult decisions and act as a responsible adult way has become a greater part of our work and it used to be what people you didn't have the affluence and I would be about to grow up earlier are we are we contributing to that entitlement and the immaturity if let's say in the mother is the one who receives all the resumes and decides the boys should go out with if we support young couples of the fur extended periods of time there's maturity there's maturity acting animal what's your responsible way in the end of the day shadow of him it depends if the parents act responsibly how you got how you guide I have to meet him in shoulder from all the time I have to guide them how to approach it in a mature in a mature way and that's part of my guidance teaching him how to make mature decisions in life I take responsibility for their life and what marriage is about now married one of the problems sometimes in marriage is very simple marriages for adults not for children and a lot of the children and a lot of the people getting married today even in their early twenties are really overgrown children they've never been forced to act in any mature responsible way whether someone's just supporting them or not that depends there are a lot of other factors that go into maturity and the fact is what if no if you think that this life is taking life seriously is one of the biggest things you have to break through to people who just used to play all the time and that is where maturity comes from learning how to take life seriously no matter who's paying the bills of course if you have to pay the bills they don't have any food you have to think like seriously you can take life seriously even without that but take the life seriously and what's life all about what am I doing with my life what I'd rather just floating through life a lot of people even if they go out into the workplace you can just float to life and that's and getting people to and part of our processing Yeshiva more than it used to be is bringing people into adulthood me and the young men into adulthood because I've been floating and number one number two it's another serious problem today is the sauce apart maturity people are so used to texting what's happening social network that a lot of human inter that was like the ability to see a deep human interaction I had a friend of mine she served quote the modern Orthodox Community here in in ushalayim marriage therapist said very often the couple who they made their own decisions it wasn't their mothers which with resumes but they had spent so much time communicating in all these artificial ways that when they had to actually live with each other they didn't know what to do it's not so it's not it's not it's all not all the it's like what's up it's not texting it's not um Facebook it's not Twitter sitting and having a serious human interaction one of the best things for that I tell I brought from all the time is you sit with the sarusa and interact with him for three four right with straight you're learning that's also preparation for marriage interacting with someone in a serious way with the back and forth unfortunately given all the different types of communication today his friend of mine used to keep a lot of a number of board games Shoots and Ladders you tell the couple here go play shoots the ladder sitting across the stable talk to each other right simply communication is different today and that's all because of all the electronic age so what it what is what's happening instead of talking I send a message or a voice message two minutes later to get back we can talk it out no people rather what's up so these are all intentional that's a basic lack of normal communication okay right and the Yeshiva these are all intentional things that the Russian are trying to intentionally very much so very much the building very much very much so it's all poor there's a certain product you want to create at the end as we hold some mature human being hmm Josh yeah I was just first of all I want to thank the worship I don't I've never had a chance to thank you since since leaving leaving the Yeshiva my first real experience in a Yeshiva coming from near yako for every lift and having a chance to sit all day and learn it was it was definitely an incredible experience and um I think I got to go back I want to come back to you we invite you back thank you so much you know how many people have taken sabbaticals and come back so just well I'll set you up you're right this pastel I had an old helmet using Yeshiva in the late 1980s and he decided he's taking a fellow sitting in the best message all day and for him it was like it was got Aiden Russians even though Josh is on fire he's learning now here in order I hear all about it you're all about it thank you okay I'm very proud to have such a thank you I know we're so grateful the Russia this time we won't take so much more of it but I want to change gears a little bit in 1978 the Russia Shiva published Jewish women in Jewish law which was uh somewhat at the time I think pioneering groundbreaking even I'm I still consider myself pretty young but I remember when I was trying to get into these suggest that was still one of the the key books to go to that really in a compelling persuasive way shared the the Torah perspective on these issues when the Russia Shiva looks back now all these years later 1978 until today are there parts of the book that Russia would have written differently or would update would change anything in there in terms of of what it says how it says it essential book I just put down a lot of facts on a piece of pet the Tauruses and this what is the Torah not so the kind of laying Allah I was saying to Elaine about my name is wrong with nothing I didn't they were never married it was just such what happened was there was a when the new literature came out really panning cobra in a very disgusting way he got me very upset and then I had a talent of mine who was in North was in my assume in Chicago who was in Northwestern University at the time and Hillary I was reformed Rabbi who kept really needling him all the time so he said listen I'll ask my rabbit to give a series of lectures so I gave a series of lectures I just write down the introduction of the book gave a series of lectures that I said not one lecture I have to present an entire context and put everything in proper context I gave I think four or five lectures a whole series and then it had a very Major Impact and people asked me to write write it up I wrote up the notes on the lectures and then I expanded it and finally I realized it's maybe if I put it together a book would have a impact the prophetam I think it had a very very positive impact on loads and loads of people therefore is there anything in yeah they wanted two details the footnote here a footnote there that I might change okay but essentially the book that is what it was I remember I told you my rabbit thought didn't understand America so when I was writing the book he said that's nonsense this whole women's thing it's going to pass in a year into why are you investing time in it he thought it was stupidity and nonsense then As Time came up built up and he began realizing he was serious so I remember I have two I was walking home from I I was visiting my him and my parents silver store and he I just finished the book and then at that point he was getting very upset about the whole movement he realized that I had been correct that this was really the beginning of a major transformation and he said so why'd you write your book about her coffins so I said I didn't write anything about that conference because I don't have a quote from you you thought the whole thing is stupid so you aren't gonna but if I ever he says you know what I think as I know what you think but I want to quote it he says after young kids write it up show me and then you can quote me so after yogs if I wrote it up it was a few lines I went running over to his house I showed it to him he changed one word I didn't understand later on so I changed the word and I put it in fine when the book at that point books would then differently a book was in galleys he I would he called me up all hysterical that he was being quoted about Aaliyah's women and he said can you put that in the book I want a quote from you about Elias for women in the books I said in the text of the book icon I can still put it in footnotes and then it was endnotes he says Fine put it in I said what do you want me to say and he dictated to me exactly what he wanted he wanted he wanted me to say he he had not understood and initially the mass and impact this whole movement was going to have what he did he wanted to use then he realized what I had told him that this is gonna check this is a revolutionary movement and that's why I have the two quotes I have from him were exact quotes that he asked me to put in the book but initially so I was I was very careful when I wrote it seemingly careful and I try to be exceedingly precise there are two quotes that are slightly imprecise there if I would change it but no big it doesn't change anything and [Music] um I stand by everything in the books it was a larger book was much more hush buff in it Norman lamb who was the editor wanted that out he wanted to be much more laughing okay some people say I should have put I should have insisted in putting that in but but uh everything in the book I stand by and it's probably one of the best sellers in the history of Jewish books it sold over 25 000 copies and Jewish books it's unbelievable Jews don't like to buy books they like to borrow books and keep them in libraries so that that book and my my book Charles was outside for a lot of times I thought there was a big need for it again I was exceedingly careful about what I wrote in retrospect the one or two little items and a footnote here that might be changed but essentially when you when you publish a book you put a lot of effort in and especially if you're dealing with controversial subjects you make sure you exceeding it precise you check yourself you check yourself and inject yourself one thing that the the publisher did with Jewish woman and Jewish law he insisted that the editor would be a glacier woman because he wanted to be clear for a general audience so the the editor was a really a top stylist helped me a lot but it also helped me that I was that she was it was a guy issue woman who it had to be clear to her can we ask which was the word that the road want to change from his quote that the rashiva understood later why I he was very careful about just I'd rather I'd rather skip that because but I still be misunderstood okay understood has Russia ever considered updating and and republishing the Jewish women in Jerusalem I did but it would take too much time I am a very busy person I didn't feel that it was a necessity and a pressure to do it the only reason I did publish the book Taurus was all in science was there was at that point a tremendous confusion a very it was a very unfortunate group of incidents that happened and people were very confused and what was happening on the internet was people against the Torah foreign so since I felt I was unique in being able to Bend all the different expertises and I was unique in the building been all the different expertise as I felt I had a CF to do it um yeah well there's only one other question I wanted to ask again I was so appreciative of the rest of his time and then I know Josh will will close us out but you know the rest of shiva's also discussed the position of of ravia shabir of the rav on Zionism and an interpretation of the rub's perspective on Zionism and it's interesting yeah there are those who are critical of the Russia Shiva while they still live in Sheba moved his family to Israel and leave the Yeshiva there so so what does the Russian how does Russia understand what is what was the rubs understanding it depends what you mean by Zionism easy if if you Zeal what he said I know all of us joshuas I heard them I discussed it with him at Great length just last night nowadays they're putting more and more and more on the on the on YouTube of his of his brushes I don't know whether you've seen them recently this is the latest thing on YouTube putting in putting his rushes he he very very clearly wrote articles and said if the state of it there's no purpose in having a Jewish State per se unless it's good for Torah correct that is absolute opposite of what zionists I can give exact quotes and he wrote it if you there was a book of all his Yiddish articles Heroes and the the Martian now Etc is very clear when he I remember what I just in fact lost two three nights ago I started on YouTube with Russia I heard coming out very strongly about how are you all that's much anyone who lives in while you uh 1978 heard exactly what he said it was very very clear he and he didn't change he didn't change that at all he had a very there's certain things that Adam can say today and would they accuse him of saying oh come on should say he he viewed the state of Israel as a credible vehicle to building to building Torah that is what he viewed it as and that's where it was and he said it very very clearly countless Stars that's not zionists she I grew up with a very good Zionist education more than all these scientists that me uh in Boston at the time the only youthful organization has been a keeper so I was a big reader they had all desire to search I read the entire science Zionism is best described as let's say General Science before we get into um uh religious Zionist Zion is best described as a student of mine once said assimilation on a national basis what does that mean what is assimilation on an individual basis I want to be a guy they call the game around me I want to be a nation just like every other Legend which was the original design is to go that's not being out of school the original scientist was get rid of ants what read all the Russian scientists literature what was it get rid of anti-Semitism how sounds to get communism some said socialism some said but some said okay we'll be a country no one hates people from Guatemala why it's a country so if we're a country just like everyone company knows gonna hate us that was the basic thing of Zionism whether it was herzl whether it was all the others in founding it we're going to be indiction just like every election religious Island says well we can have a parallel agenda using this as a vehicle for our goals that that is using this as a vehicle for our goals now the question is do you work with the Zionist movement to get your goals well you don't work with a scientists movement to get your goals that that is that's a separate issue of religious Zionism and what is it is but he was exceedingly clear in with articles and speeches which I heard I didn't from an item the value of the Jewish state is as a vehicle can be used as a vehicle for coach of Miami Etc per se is novel he said it countless times now some people say this this this we call those fake that when people attacked me for what I said they said of course I heard called odino fake I've heard I read it all you know they don't understand there's nothing he wrote that I didn't read 20 times and I didn't discuss it with him is very very very clear in 1960s and that's at the end after 67 when religious sizing took a totally different direction of alternationalism he stopped having anything to do with them that was it I Remember December 67 well after the Six Day War I'm sitting here talking to him in the summer in A Summer Place it was around the table in my parents home he said they're moving in a direction I have no I have no connection with it it's a it's a disaster that's why after that point he he technically stayed with it but was not a participant all speeches and Israeli convention stopped when they published the first was in English Russia he was few it was against his will he did not want that to be his legacy in the moment it was published it became part of his legacy he was very angry and Rabbi tells him for doing it I remember I remembered very distinctly he he was furiously mad this is not my legacy it's not what I'm about what I said I'll take what his daughter rabbits and listening said and I I have a recording of it she said it in the gush don't take my father's Philosophy from his brushes those were political rallied brushes to help people that was not his well thought through philosophy it's not my quote that is his daughter rabbit's elephants exactly those who are exact words so all the people out there they didn't have the personal connection I discussed my boo boo character shirelle within countless times not once not not twice countless times and what he felt about the state of Israel I discussed with him countless times it's not one conversation I have no alternative agenda no it's you know what I published was exactly what it was it fits with all of his brushes everything he wrote except if you come in with it trying to impose on it take a nap when when I came there just through first time in December 67. at that point he had given a very major address in New York about giving back even giving back to Coastal if it'll save lives again I will know about how much what was a different one and the streets were covered within all sorts of posters for America has arrived saying alsolete you when he realized where it was Rocky was moving at that point he absolutely divorced himself from that because he it was totally away it was the type of nationalism that he didn't believe it but even before if you read it is it a vehicle for Torah not a vehicle that wasn't some time he thought it wasn't vehicle for other people thought it wasn't a vehicle for Tara but that is a practical issue it's when his exact quote and his young Oxford speech in Yeshiva in 1970 yo that's what 78 was was about the ceremony for yomad and it's a very unique phrase he called it you acute a logic mental retardation now that's the one now there's only one person who was no one could have created that work except him that was you that would be unique to him that's not scientists yeah so when he spoke about how well I am not smart he says that doesn't mean I'm a good I'm not a good but this is a Hawaii approach everything for him was is a good photo about that is not always that every presidential election he had a very unique how did he decide who would have push for presidency is it good for the Jews good for the Torah or not that was the only way he thought and that's he thought the state of Israel could be a positive tool for Torah he disagree with people who start only the negative that's where he was every speech he gave is read it every article he gave and that was in all my private discussions with him that was it is that Zionism Zionism believes his value in having a Jewish State per se and he wrote countless times against that was that's not scientists I know what scientists I've read all the zionists like which I've read it all I've read it all it's not it's not science it's his sister his unique way of looking at it saying what can we do with the state of visuality he said that's a positive tool for Torah that was it I think I'll mind this thing special opportunity we've had with the Russia Shiva yeah this is incredible I I'm just I'm so much enjoying this I'm just wondering it seems like like that like the Russia that that the russellaveichik um one it is tomidum to think for themselves but yet you have Dawson very much he was the so so how do you balance that as a reference of a dust or it depends what that story means yeah yeah but listen that's a whole other discussion but some people one of you their funeral as cookie cutter you know we put out put out a certain mold you fit the mold no certain certain people are individuals and they value their problem being individuals he wanted them to be individuals to Think Through themselves and be individual he would guide them and he never told me what to do but we discussed it incident I had his insights in doing it he never said do this we've discussed it any that this is what my Approach would be that's it that it wasn't called Das Torah no no you know people call me when that sort of what color should I paint my bedroom pink or yellow oh yeah that phrase has been so abused I find it abhorrent abhorrent yes Torah gives me a perspective gives me a view of thing and he had his view of things and said one of his but to dictate the people what to do no he was dealing with an Avengers them and he wanted people to be individuals he didn't want to cook a car it wasn't a cookie cutter you wonder if you want an individual we thought that's the only healthy way to be he was an individually valued people being individuals innocent anymore than expect other people from old because it was so great the same really special opportunity for us what'd you say Josh how's the Russian sheep that feel the same way that you're a tummy very rich stuff very much okay good they're very diverse this is I think it's the only healthy way to be this is this is truly very special grateful to rashiva for the time I want to wish a Muslim began on the major dinner and the major birthday and yeah thank you to build time and build Torah and those who never went to Tomo to tourism including me but have have learned and listened and benefited Rabbi Brody talmud of ramosha maiselman of the Russia Shiva shlita what a conversation we covered so many areas so many points of of History so many areas of life so many approaches of salavechik have you ever met someone who says I am a product I am molded everything I am he's my rebby it's the Rob there is no one else what a remarkable what's that how many times when you start talking about you know rivaran or some other remainment he's like okay but he's not my Ralph he's not my rap it's one and it's it's very very admirable it's very terrible it's refreshing to me is when we said you know who else would you consider to be the tamidam of salavechik who really got his he said I don't talk about people next question wow isn't that refreshing someone who says not going there to talk about Torah we talk about ideas we don't talk about people not going there nice really amazing he's he's true to his word he's a very very special person and you're teaching Torah and I love the question I have to you know it full full disclosure you certainly helped with a lot of these questions and but there was one question that maybe I asked but it was certainly your your question which is which is um you know the question at the end would which is the rub wanted you to be your own individual person but at the same time you have a yeah you have a masora you have uh yeah and how how do you as a rabbi I mean there's things that you do that are different than perhaps there and how do you navigate that where you know that you're you're a rabbi you're you're you're your whole job is to do what's best for your community but I don't know I don't even you formulate the question better than I can not striking the balance you have to how do you stay true to your masora how do you defer to your Rebellion surrender to their da so to say but at the same time apply it and how can they inform and help you reach your conclusions decisions I think that one reaches an agent stage of Life they have multiple Rebellion they turn to different ones and they combine and collect their wisdom and if they're if we're doing something which is pioneering or radical or risky then especially you have to lean on your Obama and say am I pushing the envelope too far is this okay is this appropriate you know there was once a very prominent speaker who came to our community we went out with them on Friday before the Shabbos and the question I remember I'll never forget at lunch we asked was like you know you do some some radical things who's your Revy who's your Revy like who do you check in with who who's the one who holds you right in the lines hold you accountable for a second you remember what he said he said no one I don't know so that's a good question I don't really know I think that's when we're in danger persons in Angel when they can't answer who their rebbe is right where sellovacic is gone for a long time and revisingman still talks about he's my rebby right he can no longer ask him questions but he's still drawing from the conversations in the Torah that he had so a person always in life has to have a rebbe and figure out with them and in conversation with them and ultimately I think deferring to them figure out how to take and extract and apply what they have from their rebbe in in their world in their world in their community and their family in their life so let me ask you then another question I mean I have so many questions for you one would be was there ever a time where you felt this this conflict but putting that aside for for a second how does rabbi meiselman kind of bridge this this this divide between what you would call let's say the why you community of russellaveichik and then you also have the Yeshiva World where he's clearly prominently active so yeah as he described you know his descriptions are salivation it's not only his hashkafa right his interpretation not interpretation I don't want to say that in a way that's that's suggesting there's there's any any deviation but his mesoda from salivation on Zionism secular studies and and so on women's issues is different than others feel that they have and they gain from salivated so he's very much in the Yeshiva Yeshiva what you call the harei or the Torah Community but this was also an amazing part of the conversation I tried to go there with him right here he is at Eula and Eula is y-u-la it started as the Yu of Los Angeles and um and I tried to go there well that was kind of a modern Orthodox community and when did the Russia Shiva he stopped me he's like I don't know what that means this Torah and there's not Torah right I don't care if you call yourself I don't care what you call yourself either you're single-minded focused there's Torah or you're outside of Torah you could be ready you're outside of Torah you could be modern that you're inside of Torah and I also thought that was somewhat refreshing that whatever his personal hashgraph is in world view and what he feels he got from ursulaichik but he didn't get he wasn't willing to get hung up on titles and names and labels to him it's this Torah and there's outside of Torah now again how do you define that where are those boundaries what is total what's outside of Torah I found that to be refreshing too a lot more a lot more maybe maybe we'll go bring him back so interesting because it seems to be so that there's two different worlds but somehow they're not so there's not a lot of difference I do feel like we put a lot of the difference on it you know does our shefter defined himself as a modern Orthodox really not right he's no also right I mean I think that the greater the people are the more they transcend these labels right and sort of the smaller I don't mean that pejoratively or condescendingly but the smaller people are the more they're relying on or leaning on or using those labels to divide I found that also in conversations with the shakter of David Cone of mosheimaza talk about these great great tummy they're not focused on the things that divide us they're not focused on the labels and the names they're focused on Torah right if you're our friends really best are had a conversation with him recently pass guess the behind the bhima he started a beautiful thing called mky Israel it's on all social media you can sign up for the WhatsApp status Mika so mky it's catching Jews doing good things and it's great it's great there's so much that focus on the bad mky I said well how do you decide who gets hosted in mky and his criteria are Jew I don't care what you think about you know the state of Israel so I think you know sort of people with some vision and perspective or not are there differences that are important they matter those differences matter they're important we can discuss we can dialogue we could debate I'm not saying they don't matter but big adult right it's it's the bigger picture is Torah is it is a Torah is it not is it not Torah and I love that in that in that character that's us that's bokarts on synagogue right nobody's like well you're accosted you don't belong here you're too modern you don't belong here you're Safari you don't belong here you're too old you're too young it's like Torah Torah is the vocabulary it's the language it's a set of principles it's the lifestyle that unites us and within it there are different shades but we're Bound by it it's the common denominator in the common language the common theme I think that that we all speak and that we all that we all live by Robert Brody are you in a are you in a cave are you on a song I'm literally it could be a cave I I don't I'm in it's a very small Booth right now trying to get some quiet and it's actually working this might be my new studio for behind the Beamer but I'll tell you I actually came up to Baltimore because I was at the uh the the near Easter all dinner I haven't been to the dinner since I was in Yeshiva and I think you'd be very impressed I'll send you a copy of the dinner video when I get a copy they honored this year for the 89th vid and annual dinner they honored the Persian Jewish community and a fascinating story yeah for many Iranians Persians right it's fatiguez spoke about Herman newberger he says in the 70s the whole goal was listen yeah the whole goal was how do you have a Jewish community in Iran which was under the Shah and and ostensibly it was peaceful everyone was living it was able to practice Judaism very well right but the rabbis didn't have an education so bring them to a community in America then bring them back into their Community all these these budding to to Baltimore ended up learning they didn't always speak English they they integrated to the best that they could but instead of sending them back that was when the change happened so now you have all these Jews before the Maca they're ready Great Neck La all over the country right yeah Persian communities which yeah switched that up because Montoya Circle don't forget our Persians our local amazing Persians well we're very grateful thank you everybody I love when you get on fire you come back on fire amazing a big thank you to the Russia Shiva not so simple to coordinate but we're grateful to the Russia of Muslim and for his time is there another program on the planet there's another shul that interviews Veronica Bocelli and then the rashiv of tors Moshe who has uh you know the we and the people that are coming up also that rain there's something to learn from everybody something to learn something to grow and we should be open to it so I want to wish everyone good luck as we're heading into Yeshiva week those who are staycationing wherever you live those who are traveling those who are coming to Florida those who are staying in Florida wishing everyone a safe and a happy Yeshiva a week and until next time stay happy