10-30-2013 STAR-K Discusses Daylight Savings Time and Halacha

hello and welcome to Stark's monthly webinar held in our Baltimore offices this webinar is held the last Wednesday of every month at noon either Eastern Standard Time or daylight savings time but always at noon uh Eastern I'm rabt s Goldberg and we're pleased to have Rabbi D he back on our show thank you very much he it's always a pleasure uh just some some uh preliminaries if you're joining us on the web so you're at learn koser doclick webinar.com and if you're joining us by phone I'll give you the number if you want to join us by phone it's 51203 again 218 8951 1203 passcode 2020 uh this webinar and all our webinars are archived at kosher class.org k h r ces.org and uh we should be able to get it up there within a couple days thanks to our uh technician Debbie Rosenstein we also want to thank re Ellie rler for helping us out here today we do have an announcement of an upcoming webinar uh the date is going to be sometime in January on bug checking or rather uh vegetable checking for for for insects and we're going to show you slides and videos and uh discussion back and forth uh so look for information about that special webinar in your email you can sign up at our site stark. org as always if you have any questions about this topic or any topics you can reach us at 410 484 4110 or info at star- k.org so um we are going to discuss today daylight savings time and or as somebody one of our astute listeners pointed out that it's not really daylight savings time with an S it's daylight saving time without an S apparently we we and the rest of the world are uh are uh not saying it exactly correctly but I'm not really sure what the difference is but there is some difference grammatically uh so where should we start RAB let's start with some historical background I guess yes historical and uh then we can get into most important part of the conversation is how it how it affects and impacts of for people who want to keep Mitzvah obviously many mitzvas are bound by time we dve three times a day it's impacted by time their earliest times latest times to kishma is impacted by time shabas of course as everyone knows is impacted by a time and when they begin Mig all that all are are bound by time they're grma and therefore if the time the backdrop of time behind us is changed obviously then it's going to impact on on what we do and when we do it and how we do it so first a little bit of history of course the the famous stories of Benjamin Franklin uh once woke up in the middle of the night or early in the morning and he sun was up and he realized that this hour of sunlight's being put to waste because um it's 4:30 5:00 in the morning and the Sun and most people areen up and whereas the sun was setting at 7:30 in the evening he felt that um if we just obviously we can't change when the sun comes up and down but we could change the the backdrop of the actual time we're calling that therefore the idea was if you if you turn the clock up 1 hour then what you're basically doing let's say for example instead of the sun rising at 4:30 and setting at 7:30 p.m. it's going to Now set rise at 5:30 and set at 8:30 so that hour the 4:30 to 5:30 slot is now going to be basically dark and and so what most people are asleep whereas the 7:30 to 8:30 slot is going to be is going to be light and therefore people are going to use that and ultimately it's going to save energy and that's the term saving is you're saving energy so he he was trying to save candles or candles and S correct electricity it was it was uh um you know saving was saving energy because people will now not have to turn on lights uh during the evening hour um it didn't really catch on the concept where it became um actually used I believe I think the first place that actually did it on a city level was in what's called Port Arthur Canada which today is Thunder Bay um and that was in 1910 where they tried it and um they had good reason to because they wanted to make that extra hour in the night eventually in Cincinnati they did did it in 1910 um Germany did it during the war during World War I that is um eventually it it started in the United States um and it was done more on a local or state level for for many many years until 1966 when it was the uniform time act and became federal law that um that states either have it or don't have it and states have the option to opt out um until this day Arizona does not have daylight savings time because they want to go down CU it's so hot and it's desert and it's 110° and they can't wait for the sun to go down they're not interested in the extra hour of sunlight at night I didn't realize the federal government is in charge of the time also that's really uh it's really the gave him a lot of power it's inter 1884 the the time was set a standard which is really Standard time is a separate discussion but every city had their own time time zone that was really done by the railroads in 1884 and it caught on uh but again the federal government made this um law now of course you could do whatever you want in your house that's why camps for example very often have Camp times there's no federal law what time your clock has to say so got camps in the summer they don't want to late at night because they want the kids to go to sleep so they actually have what's called Camp time so they want they want the opposite they wanted to get darker earlier in the camp correct so this way they D my and they go to sleep and and it's a much more instead of if they got to wait to my and going to go to sleep till late at night I was wondering why they have Camp time right that that that's why they want to get earlier nothing legal about it it's just you need to um you know obviously gets confusing because you have to know how to how to deal with it but again there's no law but what happens is in federal Offices and so on um you'll have that just for for example there's this town in Alaska called Hider Alaska Haider haer it's on the border with Canada um in the Southeast Corner when were you at Alaska I was never in Alaska okay but haer is actually about the closest if you want to drive to Alaska it's it's next to p next to a town called Stewart this I read somewhere the city higher even though it's in Alaska which would be 5 hours behind four hours behind um let's say the East time zone eastern time zone so you have it's one hour behind Los Angeles one hour behind so in Anchorage for example it's right now 8:00 a.m. Los Angeles is 9:00 a.m. um in Haider the time there is is 9 A.M like Los Angeles because they go they're they're small town next to um they they they're next to this Canadian city and it's a small town so they and most most of the places they go shopping and so on is Steward so they'd rather just except the post office the post office has the real time because they're federal office so you don't have to you know there are cities that that have op out you were telling me about this we like it used to be there was a bus that you could take that went through uh different cities right cities and went back and forth in different time zones in the days of Standard Time well in the days when daylight savings time was not uniformed then it was by it wasn't by even by state different communities had uh had different time zones so you even had I think there was an office building in Minneapolis that the state was going one way and the city was going another way and you know one clock on one side of the building said one time it was it was unal confusion or you took a bus through Ohio somewhere you went in and out of different time zones so to speak of of7 there a lot of confusion in 1966 um uh you know this is where they made it much more uniform for therefore I think Arizona alas Arizona and Hawaii don't have they savings time it was a period where Indiana didn't have but they was a lot of confusion there different parts that they did they've actually U they actually savings time as well I want to point out that if anybody wants to chat with us uh you can you can chat with us on the screen on the bottom of your screen you'll see a chat screen we like to take your questions if you have any uh so let's move on to some of the uh theas the laws what's what is the where do you want to start so so first of all why we speaking about this now we're actually going out of daylight savings time right um you know back to the regular Standard Time and that happens now under current federal law is that it's the first Sunday in November um is is the end of day savings time and the Second Sunday in March is the beginning of daylight savings time now one one important tip here um is that it's the first Sunday it's not the first mon of shamas what the me what the difference is that if you have if you have um for example if you have a case where it's Sunday November 1st you would actually change the clock that day even though shabas was October 31st and a lot of times very often when that happens or in March as well the Lu will say well we must we're probably changing November 7th sh Shas because that's the first shabas you think that they make a mistake there are they have mistakes in in different with candle Li time that doesn't have that right so one has be if you're a gab you want to make sure that that's being done accurate but as far as H is concerned um there are ramifications this week really before we change the clock um and that is that Daylight Savings Time Has as miles which will advantages and disadvantages the big the big disadvantage of one one of the disadvantages of daylight savings time at least this time of year relates to the morning um and that is that in the morning the sunrise is very very light especially in cities that are in the Western ends of their time zones like Detroit or if you want to get further south Indiana South Indiana Friday is 817 817 is a sunrise so when you think about it the ideal time D shakas would be to get to at 8:17 now that's not so practical for people going to work and so on um so there areum of course the D especially you pointed out tomorrow with with there's a reading of the Torah on Thursday it's another 10 15 minutes exactly so so you know it's late it gets very very late and therefore if it's it's giv later now there are of course that many schs rely on to D Before Sunrise but even that you have to you can't DAV before which is discussion amongst the pisin but here one would say it's difficult to start daving from zra more than 72 minutes before the sunrise so let let's talk let's talk a little more in detail let's say you're in South P right and on Friday two days from now so uh Sunrise is 8:17 so what's the what should the person do what should the what should the minion there beion there would would want us not start chakas till about till a little bit after 7 7 five let's say um and uh because they have problem with even even the doming itself before is night it's like it's like the middle of the night so to speak the night morning the day alas cannot be fulfilled until again there is discussion exactly what time is but for purposes of how the morning morning Dawn Dawn before so again but for purposes of of ding one would say this time so D before 7 o' 705 is difficult so they would start then and then the different shs have different Customs um some actually wait until you to put on the T filling and they make a br other shs um put on the to and then wait early and make the later and they you know re adjust that and I have I have a comment about that I have a feeling about that um that even if you would hold it's just my own personal feeling that even if you would hold that it's better to put on your filling before the doing and sort of move it around when the proper time comes and make the BR then but the Practical problem with that is that when you put on your filling early early in the morning you sort of automatically say the BR anyway because it's just that's what you do and you're used to it and and let's say you can control yourself and you you put on your filling without making a you're going to hold off on the people come into the sh they don't they're not used to d a different place and they see everybody where they fing on they don't realize they didn't see the little sign on the door from I'm just saying this is a reason I think possibility to wait till you can actually what we do my is is we actually I make sure based on the time we calculate for that we we always will it's always late enough so in fact today I told them you know drop longer just so that make the otherwise people forget if you have to do it on your own stop the stops before he stops it gives it 30 seconds or whatever it is and then so what time did you start today we start at 6:30 today and uh 6:30 6:30 so about 6:46 so for some people 6:30 is already late correct they they most of them the early Min here in town are uh um 610 on Monday and Thursday and 620 during the week and those they actually like this Thursday they can't start at 6:10 because it's too early so they'll have to actually you know adjust the time the advantage of this for people let's say this see this is extra week it used to be the last till I think 2006 or 2007 it was uh um it was the last Sunday in November in October so so we would be done already by now it was a week early week and the advantage the advantage now again the disadvantage is this week just kicks it another six seven minutes it's an extra week of this issue and and the the disadvantage the advantage though was that an hour later the people who who come home from work um you know they can't make it to a Minion for M but they still can this week because it's m 6:00 10 to 6 qu to 6 whatever it is where once it hits 445 that Miss so you know there's an advantage there I should know in Israel they had this year um they used to they used to move the clock back before y Kipper maybe before depending I guess on the year but by yum Kipper they would move the clock back hour F an hour ear ear now you're fasting the same amount of time but psychologically it's nicer than to fast at 6:00 this year they this year they actually had daylight savings time they changed it because of the difference in the government the government wasn't so uh it was hard it was just it was again they savings time for for those reasons that the you know people wanted they actually did it the truth is is my son who alerted noted that uh there was a huge advantage of uh the daylight savings time which is probably the biggest Advantage unknown Advantage savings time and that is this mishma um in Israel when they changed the clock back um an hour before Kipper during the suus vacation is my Kish was extremely early extremely and therefore you had to get up and it was hard and you know somebody could easily someone on vacation is not interested in getting up just to illustrate that and that that really was in the summer that's a huge thing we would not have D sings time in the summer months so a few interesting things would happen um to the general public uh I I looked up like Boston which is Eastern end of their time own it's it's Far East Boston the which is the latest time you could say according to the V which are the lenient opinions would have been 7:55 a.m. if there wasn't there wasn't time in in the summer which and it's would be would be um you know shortly after 9:00 in the morning so you couldn't have like an 8:00 minion you wouldn't be able even shabas so even an 8:30 minion chabas would miss the and it would mean you have to get up morning by 7:45 to say or that matter any morning other so there's a huge advantage and that that's the advantage PES as well you know years ago those that remember before in the mid 80s they switched it but this the um uh D Savings Time began the last Sunday in April um then they shifted it to the first Sunday in April and now it's the again about seven years ago or so six seven years ago they moved it to the Second Sunday in March which meant that pesak will always be now in daylight savings time again the disadvantage of that in the older days before 1986 um the Seder was in standard time which was nice for the children because it's earlier right the same amount of time to but everything was shifted back um that's a disadvantage of D savings time the advantage is that again you don't have time for the next day for that matter the whole well you were talking about uh Israel so I wanted to to it's a good uh time to mention that that what happened in Israel with the terrorists correct yeah there's a story that took place is a true story um I think took place in 1999 uh where there was a terrorist plot um you know ran had the the people and the wherever they set up the the bombs to go off for the terrorists was set for 6:30 p.m. on Sunday night and these ter ists were um were you know dealing with it I think their plan was to get it on a bus somehow put it you know underneath the cargo of the bus um unbeknownst to them to the people that set up the bombs Israel had had already dropped daylight savings time so when so the bombs were set for 6:30 p.m. um daylight savings time but Israel had gone to stanard time which means when the local time was 5:30 that's when it was 6:30 so instead of God forbid this tragedy happening the three terrorists actually three terrorists they they were killed because they were still hling with the is that because is that because the Palestinian territories don't I'm not sure this came from the territories or it was from somewhere else whatever it was it was only 5:30 and uh and they it was already 5:30 really 6:30 right we do want to take some of these uh some of these questions there I want to mention also that this uh week and last week are the times where I'm I'm a attendee at the NES minu okay of the the lateness of the hour so when we gets to 5:00 or that's true so that that leads to the other Advantage by the way D like savings time in Baltimore the late the Early Sunrise is at 5:39 a.m. when in during day dur the middle the end of June in the beginning of June um it would be 430 it would be if not which means shabas morning actually the the vas minion begins 40 minutes before Sunrise so on those weeks it's at 4:59 a.m. right if not for daylight savings time then Sunrise would be at 4:39 a.m. which would mean the next menu would begin at 3:5 4 right 1 minute to four 1 minute to four and if you move towards Boston and into may may 2:00 in the morning but in Maine I believe the sunrise there is at the current clock is about 4 4:30 something 4 let's say 440 um without theight standing time sunrise would be at 3:40 which would mean mil shows morning would be three right how many people would go to a Min at 3:00 on chab morning they might as well not going to sleep stay up all night okay let's take some of these uh questions here uh because of daylight savings some people make early shabas can you say Kish before which is the Stars coming out yes this is this is a a summer question it's very relevant which was another impact on on us that this is someone argu arguably says a disadvantage and that is that shabas um begins later some people have the later long Friday afternoon especially if you're traveling uh it's good but people making chabas the sunet um again using Baltimore as example the sunset here is is like 84030 8:40 approximately which means candle liting is about 8:20 p.m. um because of that that's that's late right now you can um some some places you actually wait for to so especially certain and other so Friday night till 9:30 at night in some places which means you don't start to meal till 10: that's that's of course most everybody does that's very late but is you're allowed to begin you're allowed to make shabas from what's called for that matter is basically an hour and a quarter based on the length of the day it's hours um four sunsets so in Baltimore for example the latest PL is at 705 actually men R technici here has made wonderful charts for through throughout the United States and worldwide with many of these times for people even in as far as away as Montana and and other other farflung locations so 7:05 means that you can actually ideally di before 7:05 let's say 650 um and then that's a separate discussion but then you could already down myv starting at 7:05 earliest for lighting candles correct can't light candles before that time exactly and then make Kish I'm talking about the end of June and you can make kishes that early so if if someone's going to sh they would be home by uh you know 7:45 8:00 and that's okay you can make KES and and you could be everything have to after it gets dark there is a of eating K which a stringency to eat a piece of the kala or mat after it gets dark that's a stringency you're still yot without that so the answer is yes you could say Kish before now remember without the savings time you wouldn't you would have the need the latest Sunset btim 740 and now you could di in at 720 would be the latest uh you know the latest time so those Min are usually called PL a plug minion corre PL that just means that before the after when is the earliest time to washas with a even you could wash even in the middle of the night um NE is not governed by by the sunrise or by the dawn um the as follows if a person wakes up in the middle of the night and they plan on they technically wash they have they should wash NE if they're getting up really to do anything question is do you make a br of them the best advice here is if you wake up in the middle of the night and you're up for the day in other words like you have a 6 a.m. flight from Dallas let's say which means uh you got to you got to be there by you park by 4:45 you want to leave your house by 3:30 you get up at 3: not talking from experience I don't if ever took a 6 a.m. from Dallas but we've had from we've had um so now you you're getting up at 300 in the morning and you're ready for the day in other words you're going you could wash then and you make a br actually then because you're up for the day is a it is proper to rewash at dawn without a br now if you're going back to sleep like most people who got up at 3:00 a.m. would uh you know would let's say facilities before that you then you should go to sleep out of BR only it's logistic because if you go back to sleep there's a sh WEA you need another BR in the morning so why why get yourself into that question just wash and then in the morning you'll was again and and make a that's very well put okay uh next question and aside about the discussion with ding at n when we talk about the three hours in which one can sayma if the best time to say is after n the best time to is at n how does that work okay so really the best time there's discussion in the P here but the truth isma is is really different than n and that is um we say which means when we say when we go to sleep the time that we go to sleep the time that we rise say the time people rise is a Time different definitions one of them is it's when you see outside a friend from about 7t not your best friend who you could probably tell just by almost hearing him walk or by just even the shadow you can probably tell and not somebody who you hardly ever see somebody who in acquaint maybe somebody you see in SHO once a week on chabas and if he's there you'd be able to see him that that time is the time according to many well it is time for the recitation of shma so a person ding B which is at dawn excuse me at Sunrise EST they're going to say say but maybe you know let's say 5 6 minutes before Sunrise that's time right that's there there is a question that P if a person you wakes up he's D later he wants to say now because he's he's not going to make it to a minion till later should he say could he say it then or should he really wait till after Sunrise but if you Domin there's no question time is right immediately prior to Sunrise okay let's think some more of the that we have here RAB Heber what else um we spent a lot of time talking about the summertime is there anything in in in the winter that has any uh or it's pretty smooth because that's a standard time right but again the standard time is really what's there it's interesting you know daylight settings time is much longer than um than Standard Time how long is the standard time now Standard Time runs from the first week in in November so you basically November December January February it's really only four months and and a little bit of to March I think it comes out a total of 19 weeks if I'm not mistaken well let me just ask you when we changed our our uh um our clock system you said in 2007 right right did did the other 2006 did the other countries in the world do the same thing or they there was discussion that was one of the problems that flight patterns you know their flights I'm not sure who every country has their own their own rules of course southern hemisphere is the exact opposite but Europe I believe did not switch and that was one of the major issues one of the major issues with this change what's the problem with with a flight explain well the thing is Airlines have flight times that lock in and you're dealing with um flights that go in let's say to Europe Hub European hubs that changed ples and now it feeds into different times so what happens if our time is different something has to give they may want those ples to land at the same time to land at the same time means they have to take off an hour earlier or later on this side and that might not fit into the flight patterns over here because they have slots in different times so I think there was you know that created a rift in that and it just makes it much more difficult for the transportation industry if I'm not mistaken the transportation industry was against these changes because um you know they also one thing people have to be careful about when it's late is this is where you know discussions of all year Savings Time those who remember in 1975 it was Daylight Savings time all year round um 1975 at daylight savings time cuz I was by the Embargo the Embargo or 7 it was 74 I still remember on the first Sunday going out with my brother you know like it was 5:30 afterno oh it's still light we're going on on our bikes we were kids and they rung up in St Louis because in the win in the winter because it was sunrise was not at 4:45 it was 5:45 so like wow but it was very dangerous because when there was time in December think about it in cities like uh Detroit you're can to have sunrise at 9:00 a.m. um you do have in North Dakota there is a place that sun rises even now 8:50 in the morning but that's the Northwest tip of uh the town called Fortuna that's that's a when were you there last no never I was inota once but never that's part of the state but UHA let's go back to the what is what so so you're saying it's dangerous because the kids the kids waiting dark they were waiting for the bus crossing streets in the morning whatever I should also know first of all next week people should be extra careful when that change happens people now are going home during rush hour at night they're going home and it's light and it's light and what's going to happen is next week they say it's one of the most dangerous weeks of of accidents because that same commute which was in the sunlight is not going to be the dark people don't exactly they're not used to it so you're out on the road at 5 o' it's it's it's it's dark and bmes it's twilight so that's one one change the next change of course is Friday next Friday people have to remember that all of a sudden we're going from candle lighting it's from 5 making approximate times here but from 550 this week to to to 4 4:40 next week so that Friday afternoon it's an hour and 10 minutes exactly depending on where you live but it's a good hour depending on where you live you you just remember that you're you're going into that mode so you may want to make your your preparations um you know Thursday night certain areas and plan you can do is you have an extra week this week right you can prepare it for this week for next week CU you already have an extra hour if you're very you know uh careful with your time you can do that absolutely a lot of schools go to winter schedule where they actually let out Shiva is you know the morning seder ends 1:00 and in the winter many of them end at 12:00 in order to accommodate but people should be careful for that this is a wonderful opportunity for uh for many Mitzvah the the learning our Show starting this week actually because since we're changing the clock so let go a little bit sleep later so we starting later than normal us start 7: this week we start 7:45 and it's okay CU you had that extra hour so which is beautiful program father some learning um but again be careful of mishma which again is Shifting back an hour so again wherever you are you want you want to be cognizant of that if you're ding chop this morning at 9:00 a.m. there's good chance that you're going to miss mishma what time is my my next sh is in Baltimore so I am not sure off the cuff okay um I didn't mean to put you on the spot just approxim approximately um find we'll have our okay we'll have R is looking it up for us okay um let's take some more questions here that's okay sure okay um a followup question mosha asks can you say Kish before manishma of night okay that well I think we need say you have to say you start to to eat correct in the summertime when you when you get home before Sunset then you could certainly start the meal in other words if you're diving in summertime at 7 Sunset is at 8:40 and you're home by 8 right you know the table's set the candles are lit and you're ready to eat you can make kidish till sunet there's no Shiloh you can make kidish the Shiloh starts with if it's let's say now uh let's say now you come home um and it's uh it's Spanish mush it's it's twilight right do you have to wait you have to wait or not so the general consensus is like this if if it's ideally you should wait if it's dark already you should take before you make Kish so like I come by time I come um between the walk and you know to come up after in the winter time I'm always home well after so I'll repat prior to eating eating the meal some people it's not always so practical if you have a lot of kids and it's you know they just can't wait that time or you come inash and it's difficult to wait then you could ask um you could get a showare which means you get somebody to remind you after DAV after the meal to to oh that person can't be eating also so could have remind or maybe put a sitter somewhere or something there's one other point this year actually sares comes out on Friday which is not a common occurrence U it did happen a few years ago um and when that happens of course d Kish until it gets dark so even though you you know you're going to die Norm if you live right can't correct you have to wait that's actually the only time we end the fast with Kish we end the fast with abah say Kipper but the end the tinest of Kish you just reminded me we talking about the fast we promised to discuss uh porum and 2017 we'll get to that but one other thing is it's also the only time you lay on Friday afternoon which I I actually saw and this you may if you're a gab and your you may want to check the that on that Friday I saw two different calendars where there was a mistake one had a mistake totally one had actually contradiction between two of their was mistake they left was no they left at a regular time most shs a candle lighting time there about um you don't want to dive in a candle lighting time on a Tinus because whereas a regular M take let's say 15 minutes on a Tinus it takes 30 35 minutes 30 30 minutes so 30 minutes so if you're diving you have to make it early have to adjust it which which is super early because you change clock because now we change the clock back and this year it's very early i s it's in mid December which has even the almost the earliest sunset possible like 315 so not quiet but Baltimore where is Mally usually is 420 430 is most shs 425 maybe they have to move back to 410 I see um so again that's that'll be hard for people rushing in from from work now tin Esther was impacted and purm was impacted by this some years purm and tius Esther are in daylight savings time like um next year this coming year um that'll be the case it'll be daylight savings time it's a leap year PM is late enough um and that is is difficult because but this year it's a say shabas so it's not so difficult when first of all the time test is an hour later normally when when time test is on a weekday it's not on the I excuse me when it's on a porm which is really when it's supposed to be and porm if porm is not on a Sunday let's put it like that porm is on is on a um Tuesday Thursday or Friday then Titus Esther feeds into purm so the meaning is you come to sh fasting MH you fast and then they read the Milla and you're fasting through the Milla so with Daylight Savings Time by time the Gill is over it's 9:00 it's longer right really it's interesting time Esther people will break the time on the clock will be as late as for some people by because read so normally that you run home you eat but here you're the Miga now someone doesn't feel well they can eat before the Milla Etc but the average person standing in sh so that was a big disadvantage of course the advantage is people get a late start people people have hour longer po day day is later per day is later ends later it ends later so that's good um so again we have that problem in a few years where you'll have that again the next couple years you don't really have that I don't think because it's it's a Sunday this year and then it will be Standard Time in 2017 you get the best of both worlds because time sest is on Thursday so the fast will end early from Standard time but then actually on purum Sunday Saturday night Saturday night 2 a.m. P morning I'm sure there'll be actually probably be the first time for many people that actually up when you change the clock J that'll be the case they actually change the clock so so it'll be an hour later um and and now an hour later on the clock so you get you get the advantages of short time earlier time sester late pum just the morning you have to be careful not to dve in you know Sunrise is late not toar the Milla Before Sunrise but it's a Sunday so it's a little bit easier for people are not in such a rush in the morning if they have to go to work so is that a common thing we're going to have time s before the change of clock it's rare that's R yeah it's R we have time before after you have to you have to have pm on a Sunday on that PM is the second Sunday in March you'll have it so how often is that not not come not okay let's take some more of these questions here um let me just remember 1996 I think T we changed the clock that was right around the time to change the law but the law CH in 86 um Tire night the clock changed different shs had different you know Old Time new times you couldn't change a clock it was and PES years back had that issue also when it was in April so there was once in a while it came out not not rare but Y at night so schs had to announce our dominant times are based on the old time we are changing we're not changing every SCH did something different but it shows you the impact of you know this the federal government is coming up with these laws right and and just the impact on our what we're doing obviously we're we're keep we're following the suit but you how do I change my clock on y again under the current allows you it'll never come at anymore because second right let me just mention that we're here in the St offices in Baltimore uh these webinars are held the last Wednesday of every month at noon uh eastern time and uh if you want to join us um by phone it's 218 895-1203 passcode 2020 on the web it's learn cure. quickclick webinar.com and if you want to reach us if you have any questions so you want to follow up with with Rabbi Heber or any casis questions this topic is not not about Casas of course but it does relate to uh the Jewish World so we feel comfortable discussing it first of all 97 first of all 917 okay 917 so that again if you're ding 9:00 how does d Savings Time relate to kous let's figure out if you're visiting a factory I know that once someone was I think going to new Arizona Factory Arizona is savings time so they they they made appointment for appointment coming they're flying I to San Diego and there was a confusion as to one you know one to show up so you have to be careful right if if you uh if you have any questions about KES or orim or anything else you can reach us at 41044 4110 or info stark. org so let's take some of these chats um let me see yet fman says I don't believe that NES is an instant I think the proper warning should be the beginning of NES instead of saying n okay that's uh I mean when we refering um you know the sunrise is of course takes takes time for the whole Sun excuse me the sun sunrise is the process of the sun coming up we that what we call is when the top of the sun is is visible and now there's discussion amongst the pisin whether that means uh where you're standing or do you go by if you're elevated let's say you're on a mountain a little bit earlier because you have better angle but that it is a moment of n that's what we call it the concept of the is is a split second that occurs is it NES or hes a discussion about that right I think I think Shish of that word the word is part of are sparks but some some say the word the part of the word oh to grow also is is a difference like Jacob is asking a particular detailed question about different times for And I think we'll leave that for a different time or you can follow with RAB he because it's a little bit off the Beaten Track over here we really should have you know we had with I want to mention we had with Rabbi Heber a a series on the laws of bros which is available at kosher class.org I think it was five or six uh uh part series we should really have a series on on Time man I I find a lot of fun let's go for it it's fun I mean because you explain it very very well a lot of people who know these things it's difficult to to get it across but um you know it's able you have a skill be able to explain it very very clearly so that's uh that's not a common thing so let's see um my zim.com has a feature that allows you to to determine Zim even while in root in flight there's also High tables CH c h AI tables that give you flight you're punching when you're taking off punching when you're taking off when Landing you got to make sure to check the box if it's daylight savings time corre correct right because correct now those times are not precise because a lot of it depends on the flight patterns right but but a lot of things you know on your own like when chakas so that chart will give you a basic idea of when the sun comes up obviously we recom people look out the window and we make sure it's if it's pitched black and then but they'll give you a basic idea I've been on a couple flights to Israel where uh you know somebody will come over to me and say is you know is there a minion yet are we doing yet and it's like it's already noon time where we are it's already way past be careful when you're flying eastbound I said you can I told one fellow you can dve in two minut because you have to make up sh it's already too late when you're flying eastbound you have to be very careful because the man are rushing because you're you're two things working against you when DST Steven says when DST includes Tinus s the start of the fast is also later more people may elect to get up and eat before the fast correct so then you you can gets up a little bit later um uh star k wants to point out that RAB he is the author of a sa called Shu the gates of of time so that's uh it's available where do we get it right on Amazon you can get it from some bookstores carrier or you call the office of we'll take care of it 410 48441 the distributor it's distributed by uh litz in Brooklyn and I can give you his number those New York is anything else that we uh about this particular daylight savings that we need to cover I think we we did a you did a very good job r on all the different aspects do any final questions from the uh from the listeners I think that's it now if you're in Australia those listening savings time is opposite so they're just starting daylight savings time now summer it's summer by them so like that that relates though they're talking about kanah so late 10:00 at night because they have to wait you know till sun goes down and it gets dark so that their day has an opposite impact or what do they do I mean down right they have different challenges kanah you can light a little bit early Sun let's say sun say 8:45 but we we like kind 5 o'cl they at 8:30 9 o'cl what's the hardest is is is the tinest on Friday remember we always sayas is long and tired and a long day and have a s potatoes right now never falls out on Friday so we never have a late fast going in they have a s they won't be able to eat till think the place artina in Argentina if I'm not mistaken um it's 10 o00 as the fast ends so in no early shamas then you can't make early shamas and eat so that and Thea all that becomes different whereas their Tish their challeng is at night because the night's long they're finished with a 6:30 you're just mentioning Australia I want to see where where our um attendees are from um mostly United States uh some from Canada and from Germany from Europe is there anything particular about Germany German times that uh the times there are very late in the winter because the sun further north you get the more the more wild the days are meaning the longer they are in the summer and the shorter they are in the winter so Germany Belgium has a very short day in the winter like I was once in Denmark for the for the star in a factory and it was a start potatoes and the fast ended um you know very early because uh uh I think you know we like by 3:30 the day is so short obviously it starts ear right and doing the inspection we went down first so uh we'll we'll dve and can't get a late start or there are cases where we actually start I started inspection and stop in the middle to dve it because it's otherwise it's too there's no there's no way to do there is let me see just let's see if we can take one one one or two more questions then we'll stop um um one second sorry okay commment is saying what is the mishak at 48 minutes I guess he means who holds like that yes um of of what time mishak is they R that's the earliest time IDE correct um the one there there are fluctuating times which is based on how much light there is and it's not so depression angles which is above beyond our discussion but it has to do with where you are how far north you are of the Equator what time of year it is I guess answer some use constants 60 36 so 48 happens to be halfway between them and also sitter uses 48 uses 48 is the base and then they actually get more lenient that's for spring and they get more lenient so so 48 is is fits in uh into that without being more M I think it's just simpler to calculate uh to answer to answer the question whether or not oh okay whether or not these are going to be available yes the archive will be available at kosher class.org also they started posting uh we started posting on YouTube also these classes but you have to be careful when we go on YouTube because they show you um that YouTube recommends Sometimes some other of its own videos that we have no control over um okay I think the other questions we'll have to leave you can email them to us at info@ stark. org I want to thank everyone we had unbelievable attendance for for uh for this talk and uh it's a it's it's a really interesting topic and I'm glad that we were able to do it today um I want to remind everybody not to forget to set your clocks back at 2 amm this coming Saturday night at uh set it back an hour although story where great story say when I was in Kyle yeah in San Diego California so one of the light got mixed up and thought that this week they're moving the clock an hour ahead he moved the clock an hour ahead he came to Bish for shakas at 5:00 a.m. so you got to learn two hours it wasn't so bad but that's another right but there are places where this doesn't de as I mentioned before right not everybody has turned correct Arizona never turned never we're really going back to what it should be so Arizona never Chang well no Indiana does have time yes okay South Bend has some different times than the other South is very late see South Bend used to be isn't it unique in some way well was it's the latest South B is the latest is moded for kahila in the United States that in Grand Rapids Michigan because it's so far west in the time zone I remember a few years ago I was in um in leaport Indiana and there was a difference between leap port's time and South Ben's time because I had a a flight from Southbend and I was in leaport there was it's south of South Bend is right near the L right near the line in in the time zones it I got with my with my flight if you live on a time zone m you know Port St Joe Florida is like right on the border you know or if you're in um you know like the Alabama Georgia line or there there lines that go through States Kansas for example um you know I think so some cities do and some the Western end of Kansas is part of the Mountain Time Zone because they want to be they feel they close to Denver so they want to have that time conf you know you got you got to know this wasn't maybe an issue of the daylight savings it's just an issue that one was on eastern coast and one one was Central Central that probably was it that's true okay nothing to do with daylight savings thank you again thank you R rler and thank you de Rosenstein for helping us out here these webinars are the last Wednesday of every month at 12:00 noon and if you want to sign up to get the emails to know uh what the topic is go to our website stark. org and sign up for our alerts and we'll be happy to keep you posted the last Wednesday of November will be ER the last Wednesday of November will be okay will be that night night that's how we can remember it correct thanks again for joining us take care